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  1.  
  2. Start of @View buffer: Fri Dec 09 23:48:40 2016
  3.  
  4. Session Start: Fri Dec 09 18:07:07 2016
  5. Session Ident: Roarian
  6. 01[18:07] <Luolang> What have you been working on / considering working on, if you don't mind me asking?
  7. [18:08] <Roarian> yo
  8. [18:08] <Roarian> :)
  9. [18:08] <Roarian> well, since trying to continue my ongoing stuff has been... a bitch
  10. 01[18:08] <Luolang> heh
  11. [18:08] <Roarian> i´ve been trying to get something new going, even if it´s not too huge
  12. [18:08] <Roarian> just to get back into fanfic after so much original stuff
  13. 01[18:08] <Luolang> Any fandoms, ideas, or what not that have been percolating about?
  14. [18:08] <Roarian> my nano was basically 80% original and the rest snippets of things
  15. [18:09] <Roarian> including half a dozen worm ideas that went nowhere
  16. 01[18:09] <Luolang> Ah, yes, Worm haha
  17. [18:09] <Roarian> i´ve been trying to get into a sci-fi fandom of one sort or another
  18. 01[18:09] <Luolang> I find it an intriguing but frurstrating setting to work with at times
  19. 01[18:09] <Luolang> Any particular one?
  20. [18:09] <Roarian> I know quite a few of them
  21. [18:10] <Roarian> mass effect is one I like a lot, but a lot of the usual stuff has been covered
  22. 01[18:10] <Luolang> In terms of approaches, storylines, and characters?
  23. [18:10] <Roarian> really ME has the same problem as Worm on the larger scale
  24. [18:10] <Roarian> an oncoming apocalypse
  25. 01[18:10] <Luolang> Reapers dominate the narrative?
  26. 01[18:11] <Luolang> In the way Scion tends to in Worm stories?
  27. [18:11] <Roarian> worm fics generally have to deal with cauldron and scion if they get large scale enough
  28. [18:11] <Roarian> ME fics can´t really dick around forever without the reapers getting involved somehow
  29. 01[18:11] <Luolang> And if you don't address them, it feels like there's a lacuna.
  30. [18:11] <Roarian> yea
  31. 01[18:11] <Luolang> One issue with ME is that the logic behind the universe is built around the Reapers
  32. [18:12] <Roarian> I planned out a post-ME1 fic in which Legion finds the body of Shepard before the shadow broker / liara
  33. 01[18:12] <Luolang> since they cull every several tens of thousands of years or so and keep things technologically stagnant, relatively speaking
  34. [18:12] <Roarian> and shepard is fully on the synthetic side this time - or perhaps it´s revealed that cerberus still revived the body and now there´s two of him/her running around
  35. [18:12] <Roarian> but a lot of that has been done by other fics
  36. 01[18:13] <Luolang> Heh, the Citadel polot?
  37. [18:13] <Roarian> if not with shepard
  38. 01[18:13] <Luolang> plot*
  39. 01[18:13] <Luolang> With the clone
  40. [18:14] <Roarian> that was kinda silly
  41. -
  42. 01[18:15] Roarian is Gebruiker@2B9522B6.A70E9657.31ED6D49.IP * realname
  43. 01[18:15] Roarian on #politics #thestudy #darklordpotter
  44. 01[18:15] Roarian using thor.darklordpotter.net DLP IRC Server
  45. 01[18:15] Roarian has been idle 36secs, signed on Fri Dec 09 16:53:52
  46. 01[18:15] Roarian End of /WHOIS list.
  47. -
  48. [18:15] <Roarian> in any case, that was a plot I actually kinda worked out, with there being no EDI and Shepard personally being the Normandy
  49. [18:15] <Roarian> heh
  50. 01[18:15] <Luolang> Shepard was the Normandy itself?
  51. 01[18:15] <Luolang> A fully synthetic being?
  52. [18:15] <Roarian> the idea being that the geth found dead shepard before cerberus
  53. [18:15] <Roarian> and they brought her back in their own way
  54. [18:16] <Roarian> leaving it vague whether it´s the same person or just a very convincing copy
  55. 01[18:16] <Luolang> The non-heretic Geth?
  56. [18:17] <Roarian> veering the plot off course would be interesting too - for example I was disappointed that they never did go explore beyond the closed relays
  57. [18:17] <Roarian> to find new information or help
  58. [18:17] <Roarian> it seemed what ME1 was hinting at in the end
  59. [18:17] <Roarian> but it was quickly forgotten
  60. 01[18:17] <Luolang> Right.
  61. [18:17] <Roarian> ME2 was great but it was a very different plot direction
  62. 01[18:17] <Luolang> Any particular themes or what ever you'd want to explore?
  63. [18:18] <Roarian> synthetics and organics are already a major theme, that´s pretty obvious
  64. 01[18:18] <Luolang> Synthetics in contrast to organics was one of the big ones, if not /the/ big one
  65. 01[18:18] <Luolang> yeah
  66. 01[18:18] <Luolang> Shepard being a synthetic here would be very interesting
  67. 01[18:18] <Luolang> in connection with the Reapers's logic
  68. [18:19] <Roarian> a synthetic who understands organics extremely well
  69. [18:19] <Roarian> heh
  70. 01[18:19] <Luolang> Cause he / she used to be one, yeah
  71. 01[18:19] <Luolang> Can the reverse happen at all in this?
  72. 01[18:19] <Luolang> Or just organic --> synthetic?
  73. [18:19] <Roarian> that´d be interesting in its own way - i´ve seen one fic do it
  74. [18:19] <Roarian> where geth really dig ice cream
  75. 01[18:19] <Luolang> Hardware to wetware or something
  76. 01[18:19] <Luolang> lol
  77. [18:20] <Roarian> i imagine it could be done at least brain outward
  78. [18:20] <Roarian> even if that is still synthetic
  79. [18:20] <Roarian> EDI´s core was a fairly small sphere essentially
  80. 01[18:21] <Luolang> right
  81. [18:21] <Roarian> anyway, Shepard in ME2 is already pretty dependent on tech
  82. [18:21] <Roarian> but that´s more cyborg than anything
  83. 01[18:21] <Luolang> Though the Catalyst claimed they were the ideal combination of synthetic and organic I think?
  84. 01[18:21] <Luolang> Can't recall exactly what it said re there
  85. [18:21] <Roarian> this would be like the reverse then - might build a new organic body, but the brain is all synth
  86. 01[18:22] <Luolang> Was there a particular narrative you had in mind?
  87. 01[18:22] <Luolang> Like if you were going to do anything different regarding the Reapers?
  88. 01[18:24] <Luolang> One vague AU idea I had in the past was the Protheans winning their own war last cycle and continue on with their empire-building.
  89. [18:24] <Roarian> i did plan out a scene in which the geth are not convinced by shepard´s conviction that peace is possible between the two sides (since legion never did get to know her or fight beside her) and she does the equivalent of legion´s sacrifice - with no certainty that she´ll step back intact on the other side. Basically disseminating her experiences and getting put back together later
  90. 01[18:25] <Luolang> That sounds promising, yeah
  91. [18:25] <Roarian> and the geth just point out that they couldn´t fit all the bits back together perfectly and they plugged the holes with geth programs #havefunwiththatthought
  92. [18:25] <Roarian> ;D
  93. 01[18:25] <Luolang> heh
  94. 01[18:26] <Luolang> I think portraying a truly alien intelligence would be interesting, but difficult to execute probably
  95. [18:26] <Roarian> I´d probably give her a few of the advantages of the geth, like getting smarter if she´s controlling more hardware
  96. 01[18:26] <Luolang> Like Shepard starts to experience geth-like consciousness
  97. [18:26] <Roarian> i tend to play femshep so i´d probably write that too
  98. 01[18:26] <Luolang> and wonders why the hell she'd ever want to be organic in the first place
  99. 01[18:26] <Luolang> same
  100. [18:26] <Roarian> even if synthshep wouldn´t really have a gender
  101. [18:26] <Roarian> well, i suppose EDI kinda does
  102. [18:26] <Roarian> on a technicality
  103. 01[18:27] <Luolang> Gender is supposed to be different from sex at any rate
  104. [18:27] <Roarian> and yea, trying to describe the geth consensus from the inside without vague blocky holograms
  105. [18:27] <Roarian> would be nice
  106. 01[18:28] <Luolang> As much as it was reviled, you ever play Deus Ex: Invisible War?
  107. [18:28] <Roarian> geth cities consisting of millions of individuals
  108. 01[18:28] <Luolang> The Helios ending reminds me a little of the geth
  109. 01[18:28] <Luolang> with a so-called "instantaneous" democracy
  110. [18:28] <Roarian> EDI described the main geth hub as basically one mind the size of a galactic arm
  111. [18:28] <Roarian> also they were building a dyson swarm/sphere
  112. 01[18:28] <Luolang> right
  113. 01[18:29] <Luolang> She couldn't really comprehend the scale of the geth IIRC
  114. [18:29] <Roarian> but yea, femshep would argue for geth/quarian peace to help Tali, methinks
  115. 01[18:29] <Luolang> probably yeah
  116. 01[18:29] <Luolang> unless you went full renegade or something haha
  117. [18:29] <Roarian> if she does end up kinda sharing headspace with the geth for a while, presumably they both end up with some qualities of the other
  118. 01[18:30] <Luolang> There might be some potential re: exploring posthuman themes
  119. 01[18:30] <Luolang> or postorganic themes
  120. [18:30] <Roarian> can never stay away from those
  121. 01[18:30] <Luolang> more accurate
  122. 06[18:30] * Roarian glances at his iron man fics
  123. 01[18:30] <Luolang> heh
  124. [18:30] <Roarian> one of my favorite iron man books
  125. [18:30] <Roarian> is hypervelocity
  126. [18:31] <Roarian> which stars a runaway AI copy of Tony
  127. 01[18:31] <Luolang> Ah, I've heard good things about it
  128. 01[18:31] <Luolang> Never read it unfortunately
  129. [18:31] <Roarian> basically an AI possessing one of his suits
  130. [18:31] <Roarian> by the end it unlocks the ability to speed up its consciousness
  131. [18:31] <Roarian> it´s left unclear if it survives
  132. [18:31] <Roarian> also shield are dicks in that story
  133. 01[18:32] <Luolang> Do you think femshep would feel some sort of frustration towards organic thought after a while?
  134. 01[18:32] <Luolang> The Geth haven't experienced organic thought to resent it or find it inferior or anything
  135. 01[18:32] <Luolang> They find it more something worth studying or w/e IIRC
  136. [18:33] <Roarian> I could see her getting impatient at some of the shortcomings compared to synthetics, and also envious of things she´s lost
  137. 01[18:33] <Luolang> yeah
  138. 01[18:33] <Luolang> "Whaddya mean you don't communicate at the speed of light?"
  139. [18:34] <Roarian> well, she´d know that, but maybe just forgot to take it into account
  140. [18:34] <Roarian> super-impatient at a response from some admiral that´s taking too long
  141. 01[18:34] <Luolang> Yeah, I was just teasing haha
  142. [18:34] <Roarian> ´oh, 5 ms have passed. May have to slow down my processing. ugh.´
  143. 01[18:34] <Luolang> I think that would be the most rewarding but also most difficult to pull off part
  144. [18:34] <Roarian> ;o
  145. 01[18:34] <Luolang> Shepard's mentality changing over time
  146. 01[18:35] <Luolang> To the point that we get a genuinely alien perspective in some ways
  147. 01[18:35] <Luolang> though still tied to her prior humanity
  148. [18:35] <Roarian> i´d have to figure out where the geth got the necessary info to get organic thought more or less translated correctly though. I imagine if they could do that always, they´d have fewer issues
  149. [18:35] <Roarian> so maybe it´s a lazarus-like special project
  150. [18:35] <Roarian> or something recovered from precursors, like eezo tech
  151. 01[18:36] <Luolang> maybe it's Reaper-tech?
  152. [18:36] <Roarian> maybe those previous synthetics the protheans fought
  153. 01[18:36] <Luolang> or too much?
  154. [18:36] <Roarian> i could see that
  155. [18:36] <Roarian> if she knew she´d be instantly super-wary though
  156. 01[18:36] <Luolang> That could be a plot point to use throughout
  157. 01[18:37] <Luolang> How she's always unsure about herself
  158. 01[18:37] <Luolang> to some extent
  159. 01[18:37] <Luolang> That maybe she's indoctrinated or something
  160. [18:37] <Roarian> i mean
  161. [18:37] <Roarian> EDI was made with reaper tech
  162. 01[18:37] <Luolang> Yeah and Paragon Shepard got over that
  163. 01[18:37] <Luolang> Though I think it'd be more troubling for her if it was her own mind
  164. [18:37] <Roarian> cerberus combined a murderous AI with reaper tech and somehow made a nice robot lady who falls in love with a human
  165. [18:37] <Roarian> they suck at everything
  166. 01[18:37] <Luolang> lol
  167. [18:38] <Roarian> presumably her experimental reaper tech would end up spreading to the geth and upgrading them like legion ended up doing
  168. 01[18:38] <Luolang> right
  169. [18:38] <Roarian> but i think that would be a later plotpoint
  170. 01[18:39] <Luolang> Which would make the Quarians understandably wary as hell later when that happens
  171. [18:39] <Roarian> since she´d have to trust them literally with her life
  172. 01[18:39] <Luolang> Shepard and Tali to broker any chance at peace again
  173. [18:39] <Roarian> and possibly accept that death is kind of a crazy concept when you have backups
  174. [18:39] <Roarian> hmhm
  175. [18:39] <Roarian> tali is best
  176. 01[18:40] <Luolang> What would be happening with the Council, or the Collectors or w/e?
  177. 01[18:40] <Luolang> And Cerberus
  178. [18:40] <Roarian> well, presuming that the geth keep shep´s body and thus it´s never revived
  179. [18:40] <Roarian> it´d have to veer off course
  180. 01[18:40] <Luolang> Would she wake up after 2 years like in canon?
  181. [18:41] <Roarian> well, that´s optional
  182. [18:41] <Roarian> but yea, you could keep the canon more or less for those 2 years
  183. [18:41] <Roarian> barring shep´s interference
  184. 01[18:41] <Luolang> Big change would be with Cerberus in the interim re Harper's plans
  185. [18:41] <Roarian> liara would maybe change less
  186. [18:42] <Roarian> since her whole information broker thing came about at least in part because of trying to get shepard back
  187. [18:42] <Roarian> yea, with shepard gone
  188. [18:42] <Roarian> what would he go for?
  189. 01[18:42] <Luolang> That's what I'm wondering
  190. [18:42] <Roarian> maybe he´d hurry up his crazy ME3 stuff with reaper implants
  191. [18:42] <Roarian> which would be Bad
  192. 01[18:43] <Luolang> He might feel the pressure to do that
  193. 01[18:43] <Luolang> without Shepard perhaps
  194. 01[18:43] <Luolang> accelerate his plans in general
  195. [18:43] <Roarian> ironically having no shepard ends up with illusive man as less of a dick than in canon?
  196. [18:43] <Roarian> ;D
  197. 01[18:43] <Luolang> heh
  198. 01[18:44] <Luolang> Council still with their head in the sand?
  199. [18:44] <Roarian> presumably, they were in canon
  200. 01[18:44] <Luolang> yeah
  201. [18:45] <Roarian> joker would also be doing something else
  202. [18:45] <Roarian> y´know, grounded for two years
  203. [18:45] <Roarian> dunno what he did in canon
  204. 01[18:45] <Luolang> Right, no need for the Ilusive Man to reach out to him
  205. [18:45] <Roarian> hmhm
  206. 01[18:45] <Luolang> or possibly any of the crew shepard collected in ME2
  207. [18:45] <Roarian> shep returns, finds joker flying some cruiser
  208. [18:45] <Roarian> o hi
  209. 01[18:45] <Luolang> lol
  210. [18:46] <Roarian> I would probably still use some of those characters
  211. [18:46] <Roarian> where possible
  212. [18:46] <Roarian> the ME1 characters are obvious
  213. 01[18:46] <Luolang> Btw, Kaidan or Ashley in this?
  214. [18:46] <Roarian> but can´t really skip mordin
  215. [18:46] <Roarian> ;
  216. [18:47] <Roarian> i honestly never really cared for either of them
  217. [18:47] <Roarian> so i´m not that comitted to a choice there
  218. 01[18:47] <Luolang> Well, I found the human party members less compelling than the aliens in general
  219. [18:47] <Roarian> blander personalities for the most part
  220. [18:47] <Roarian> which is too bad
  221. 01[18:48] <Luolang> yeah
  222. [18:48] <Roarian> i didn´t mind kasumi or zaeed, they had some character
  223. 01[18:48] <Luolang> On a thematic level, I think Ashley dying works
  224. [18:48] <Roarian> but most of the rest were kinda meh
  225. 01[18:48] <Luolang> she redeems the family legacy at Virmire or w/e
  226. [18:48] <Roarian> hmhm
  227. [18:49] <Roarian> jacob was lame
  228. 01[18:49] <Luolang> It's funny you say Kasmui and Zaeed had more character
  229. [18:49] <Roarian> miranda has a few decent points, but mostly didn´t care to drag her along
  230. 01[18:49] <Luolang> when you couldn't even engage in interactive dialogue with them lol
  231. [18:49] <Roarian> vega... eh
  232. [18:49] <Roarian> i think that´s most of them
  233. [18:50] <Roarian> that´s true enough, but i think they had a more defined role
  234. 01[18:50] <Luolang> Jack
  235. 01[18:50] <Luolang> forgot about her
  236. [18:50] <Roarian> yea
  237. [18:50] <Roarian> she´s cool
  238. [18:50] <Roarian> more of a cutscene badass though
  239. [18:50] <Roarian> gets insanely more powerful the moment you´re not in control
  240. 01[18:50] <Luolang> lol, yeah
  241. 01[18:51] <Luolang> I found it funny how biotics had issues when the enemy...
  242. 01[18:51] <Luolang> shields I think?
  243. 01[18:51] <Luolang> or even armor
  244. [18:51] <Roarian> she and Magus can hang out
  245. 01[18:51] <Luolang> but in her cutscene, she takes out a few mechs no problem
  246. [18:51] <Roarian> hmhm
  247. [18:52] <Roarian> btw, i like the idea of a geth-built Normandy for shepard´s transport, and how the first organics on board get kinda claustrophobic
  248. [18:52] <Roarian> no windows, y´know
  249. [18:52] <Roarian> structural weakness
  250. 01[18:52] <Luolang> would it have utilities?
  251. [18:52] <Roarian> ;D
  252. 01[18:52] <Luolang> comissary, restroom, w/e?
  253. [18:53] <Roarian> i imagine it would be fitted with the necessities
  254. 01[18:53] <Luolang> as a sidethought perhaps
  255. 01[18:53] <Luolang> "Oh right, organics need these things."
  256. [18:53] <Roarian> hmhm, presumably shepard herself would barely realize there´s no windows
  257. [18:53] <Roarian> on account of not looking with eyes
  258. 01[18:53] <Luolang> right
  259. [18:53] <Roarian> also I don´t get why spaceships don´t just
  260. 01[18:53] <Luolang> Would Shepard have a Geth body here?
  261. [18:53] <Roarian> attach cameras to the hull
  262. [18:54] <Roarian> and have monitors inside
  263. [18:54] <Roarian> same experience
  264. 01[18:54] <Luolang> Might have issues re: maintenance
  265. 01[18:54] <Luolang> debris getting on the cameras or w/e
  266. [18:54] <Roarian> I presume shepard could hijack geth bodies the same way the geth themselves do, or EDI with the android body
  267. 01[18:54] <Luolang> where is Shepard physically stored in?
  268. [18:55] <Roarian> maybe in a fit of irony shepard will patch a hole in her main body with a piece of her old armor
  269. 01[18:55] <Luolang> some sort of mainframe in the Normandy?
  270. [18:55] <Roarian> there was a hole
  271. [18:55] <Roarian> the geth seem to move between platforms so presumably wherever is available
  272. [18:55] <Roarian> but yea, the ship would be a hub probably
  273. [18:56] <Roarian> it´s interesting how the Geth don´t seem to have EDI´s limitation
  274. [18:56] <Roarian> it´s basically stated she´s bound to her core, and copying her over to a new one would just result in a new person
  275. 01[18:56] <Luolang> Did Legion have a similar issue?
  276. [18:57] <Roarian> he didn´t change bodies in the games
  277. 01[18:57] <Luolang> The reason the Geth may not have had that issue is that they didn't really form enough individuality to become a person
  278. [18:57] <Roarian> he was presumably created in the same body he died in
  279. 01[18:57] <Luolang> So I'm not sure if Legion wouldn't have had similar problems
  280. 01[18:57] <Luolang> Legion was supposed to be unique in developing individuality, IIRC
  281. [18:57] <Roarian> if the pre-upgrade geth were person enough to inquire about their own souls, they probably count as person enough
  282. [18:57] <Roarian> ;p
  283. [18:58] <Roarian> but they seem to be more like a communal intelligence
  284. [18:58] <Roarian> a 100 programs is not very smart
  285. [18:58] <Roarian> while legion with >1000 was presumably equivalent to other races
  286. 01[18:58] <Luolang> yeah
  287. 01[18:59] <Luolang> The thing with the Geth though is that it seems a lot more fluid
  288. [18:59] <Roarian> yup
  289. 01[18:59] <Luolang> programs could swap in and out of different configurations
  290. 01[18:59] <Luolang> and they don't seem to have any issues with it
  291. 01[18:59] <Luolang> from the standpoint of personhood
  292. [18:59] <Roarian> i presume they have a very different concept of their own personhood
  293. [18:59] <Roarian> but they´re not a hive mind as such
  294. 01[18:59] <Luolang> probably nothing like ours
  295. [19:00] <Roarian> they seem to share basic programming and that can be offloaded, but the higher level functions are still distinct
  296. 01[19:00] <Luolang> ah
  297. [19:00] <Roarian> the codex covers that
  298. [19:00] <Roarian> the more bodies there are in close proximity, the more they can offload the basic running and gunning to one side & use the rest of their intelligence for tactics and such
  299. 01[19:01] <Luolang> Legion had an unusually high number of programs in one platform right?
  300. [19:01] <Roarian> in servers that´s exaggerated further, that´s why they seem to prefer living in those
  301. [19:01] <Roarian> yeah, for a mobile platform at least
  302. 01[19:01] <Luolang> since he was a solo dude
  303. [19:01] <Roarian> he was unique
  304. 01[19:01] <Luolang> a first scout or w/e
  305. [19:01] <Roarian> specifically made to communicate with organics
  306. [19:02] <Roarian> i presume server hubs are more like culture minds almost, if not as proactive or whimsical
  307. [19:02] <Roarian> think tanks
  308. 01[19:02] <Luolang> Re: other changes to Shepard, how would her sexuality be impacted?
  309. 01[19:02] <Luolang> Would she even have any sense of one anymore?
  310. [19:02] <Roarian> shepard/legion OTP
  311. [19:02] <Roarian> ;D
  312. 01[19:02] <Luolang> Would the Geth even comprehend "Romance?"?
  313. [19:03] <Roarian> i doubt it
  314. 01[19:03] <Luolang> They seem to share so much of themselves already that even the "soul bond" cliche doesn't seem apt
  315. [19:03] <Roarian> I suspect they´d know enough objective facts based on quarians though
  316. [19:03] <Roarian> even if they can´t grasp it
  317. 01[19:03] <Luolang> Like, if romance is forming a connection with another person or w/e, it'd be kind of baffling to the Geth
  318. 01[19:03] <Luolang> since they're connected to each other constantly
  319. [19:04] <Roarian> if it did happen, would the geth end up literally sharing a consciousness or something? Asari eat your heart out
  320. 01[19:04] <Luolang> That might be one point of inhumanity to explore maybe
  321. [19:04] <Roarian> that´d be an amusing repercussion of exposure to shepard
  322. 01[19:04] <Luolang> what, that they discover sex?
  323. 01[19:05] <Luolang> the geth equivalent of it anyway
  324. [19:05] <Roarian> and are supremely incompetent at grokking the concept
  325. [19:05] <Roarian> but the attempts are hilarious
  326. 01[19:05] <Luolang> Orgies at the speed of light
  327. [19:05] <Roarian> snrk
  328. [19:05] <Roarian> I´m still curious about that one time you find a geth shrine
  329. [19:06] <Roarian> granted, it´s to the reapers presumably
  330. [19:06] <Roarian> but geth can have religion?
  331. 01[19:06] <Luolang> Well, they have a concept of soul
  332. 01[19:06] <Luolang> Religion doesn't seem like a far stretch after that
  333. [19:06] <Roarian> presumably picked up from the quarians though
  334. 01[19:06] <Luolang> probably yeah
  335. [19:06] <Roarian> and you can easily argue it´s not literal
  336. [19:06] <Roarian> but more metaphorical
  337. [19:06] <Roarian> many people use the word in that sense
  338. 01[19:07] <Luolang> what word? Soul?
  339. [19:07] <Roarian> yea
  340. 01[19:07] <Luolang> I think it might depend on their view of mortality and individuality
  341. 01[19:07] <Luolang> That's where the soul as a metaphysical concept would come most into play
  342. [19:07] <Roarian> which would by necessity be really weird
  343. [19:07] <Roarian> like, did legion die in the end? I suppose technically, but presumably all his data and most of his ideas persist. He did directly upload his entire being
  344. 01[19:08] <Luolang> I think it was implied to be death
  345. [19:08] <Roarian> basically stated, actually
  346. 01[19:09] <Luolang> If that's the case, I could see some of the geth adopting an idea of a soul
  347. [19:09] <Roarian> but how can geth so freely exchange programs one day
  348. [19:09] <Roarian> and then they die when doing it the next?
  349. 01[19:09] <Luolang> My original idea re: Legion as a full person has issues like you said
  350. 01[19:09] <Luolang> since they were apparently persons enough to meaningfully ask about their souls
  351. [19:10] <Roarian> i can see that the specific configuration of Legion is gone, which would be similar to shep´s situation in this fic
  352. 01[19:10] <Luolang> to me, that's just death though
  353. 01[19:10] <Luolang> if there's a loss of psychological continuity as drastic as that
  354. 01[19:11] <Luolang> like if I cloned myself with all of my memories or w/e, that wouldn't be "me"
  355. [19:11] <Roarian> but canon shepard is dead for the better part of two years
  356. [19:11] <Roarian> presumably it´d apply tehre too
  357. 01[19:11] <Luolang> yeah, it's something I always had an issue with
  358. 01[19:11] <Luolang> on a philosophical level
  359. 01[19:11] <Luolang> my intuition is that Shepard outright died and a new version cropped up, but that's a tricky matter all around
  360. 01[19:12] <Luolang> If you went the Shepard route with Legion, it doesn't seem to have the same impact
  361. 01[19:12] <Luolang> Legion was treated as DED dead for all intents and purposes by everyone
  362. 01[19:12] <Luolang> had his name on the plaque and everything
  363. [19:12] <Roarian> sure
  364. [19:12] <Roarian> if you picked apart all his programs and later reassembled them, would he be the same person? was anything lost?
  365. [19:13] <Roarian> and does it matter if the parts are synthetic or biological
  366. 06[19:13] * Roarian has no clue
  367. 01[19:13] <Luolang> In fairness, most philosophers have no clue either
  368. [19:13] <Roarian> heh
  369. 01[19:13] <Luolang> That's one of the oldest philosophical puzzles
  370. 01[19:13] <Luolang> Re: the Ship of Theseus
  371. [19:13] <Roarian> hmhm
  372. [19:13] <Roarian> the ship of theseus is one of my favorites, i use it in an original story
  373. 01[19:14] <Luolang> The trick is figure something out, I think, where Legion fundamentally dies in some meaningful sense, but presumably, Shepard doesn't.
  374. [19:14] <Roarian> conveniently its working title is Soul of Theseus
  375. [19:14] <Roarian> i might´ve mentioned it before
  376. 01[19:14] <Luolang> Unless you'd want to work up some themes re existential angst or w/e
  377. 01[19:14] <Luolang> Ah, I haven't heard of it
  378. 01[19:14] <Luolang> Have you published it anywhere?
  379. [19:14] <Roarian> working on third draft atm
  380. [19:14] <Roarian> so no
  381. 01[19:15] <Luolang> The concept itself sounds super interesting
  382. 01[19:15] <Luolang> One of my new fav stories re personhood is this one, if you haven't seen it already: http://www.f.waseda.jp/sidoli/Gregory_Second_Person_Present_Tense.pdf
  383. [19:16] <Roarian> it´s basically the concept of brain uploading explored, including the philosophical issues that arise. I leave a lot of the issues unresolves for obvious reasons, but I try to represent all sides fairly
  384. 01[19:16] <Luolang> Yeah, there's a lot of tough issues to chew through there
  385. 01[19:16] <Luolang> I think many philosophers are somewhat okay with the gradual replacement route
  386. 01[19:16] <Luolang> like if you slowly replaced a neuron at a time with a synthetic neuron or chip or something
  387. [19:17] <Roarian> the main character is someone involved in an experimental program which involves the individual replacement of bits of the brain over a long period of time & has ended up living a rather fatalistic lifestyle since he´s never quite sure if tomorrow someone else will wake up in his skull
  388. 01[19:17] <Luolang> interesting
  389. 01[19:17] <Luolang> have you looked into anything from Chalmers about that?
  390. [19:17] <Roarian> there´s other types of brain uploading in use in the world to contrast
  391. [19:18] <Roarian> yea, i have read some from all sorts of people who have opined on the topic
  392. [19:19] <Roarian> even yudkowski if you can believe it
  393. [19:19] <Roarian> heh
  394. 01[19:19] <Luolang> I can, yeah
  395. 01[19:19] <Luolang> He's all about this sort of thing after all
  396. [19:19] <Roarian> I don´t generally like him much, but he´s got some interesting ideas
  397. 01[19:19] <Luolang> Dunno if you've already seen it, but I liked Chalmers overview here: http://consc.net/papers/uploading.pdf
  398. [19:19] <Roarian> even if he does tend to go a bit overboard
  399. 01[19:19] <Luolang> It's fairly even-handed among the different approaches
  400. 01[19:20] <Luolang> But, anyway, I think the idea of Geth!Shepard is very promising
  401. 01[19:20] <Luolang> if only from a thematic perspective
  402. [19:20] <Roarian> hmhm, i´d want to plan out an actual storyline though
  403. [19:20] <Roarian> not just a premise
  404. 01[19:21] <Luolang> I think you'd want something attendant to the themes you'd want to craft
  405. 01[19:21] <Luolang> synthetic / organic is one
  406. 01[19:21] <Luolang> there's also stuff re posthumanity
  407. 01[19:21] <Luolang> personhood, death, etc
  408. [19:21] <Roarian> sure
  409. [19:22] <Roarian> but presumably shepard also has to have actual plans - would she attempt to reconnect asap? Who would she go to?
  410. 01[19:22] <Luolang> after waking up?
  411. [19:22] <Roarian> presumably after getting used to the idea
  412. 01[19:22] <Luolang> if she's in Rannoch space, I imagine Tali would be the closest possibility
  413. [19:22] <Roarian> she´d probably not trust the geth much after ME1
  414. [19:23] <Roarian> if Tali got a message from geth space, I really doubt she´d react nicely in early ME2, lol
  415. 01[19:23] <Luolang> right
  416. [19:23] <Roarian> don´t you pick her up fighting geth?
  417. [19:23] <Roarian> on that hellhole planet
  418. 01[19:23] <Luolang> yeah
  419. 01[19:23] <Luolang> well you first encounter her at that one planet
  420. 01[19:23] <Luolang> with the human colony
  421. [19:24] <Roarian> lol @ shep dropping in for a geth civil war
  422. 01[19:24] <Luolang> but yeah, you picked her up later with that planet that had issues with its star I think?
  423. 01[19:24] <Luolang> Did that plot even go anywhere?
  424. 01[19:24] <Luolang> the whole missing mass issue or w/e
  425. 01[19:24] <Luolang> I don't recall anything being done with it later in ME2 or ME3
  426. [19:25] <Roarian> nope, they don´t make it clear
  427. [19:25] <Roarian> consensus was that geth weren´t responsible
  428. [19:25] <Roarian> but no clue if it was natural or artificial
  429. [19:26] <Roarian> the explanation they give doesn´t make sense
  430. 01[19:26] <Luolang> they give an explanation?
  431. [19:26] <Roarian> they mention that dark energy is reducing the mass of the star leading to its instability
  432. [19:26] <Roarian> sounds more like eezo
  433. 01[19:27] <Luolang> Doesn't eezo utilize dark energy?
  434. 01[19:27] <Luolang> or release it or something?
  435. [19:27] <Roarian> which doesn´t make sense either, but sure
  436. [19:27] <Roarian> ;D
  437. [19:27] <Roarian> dark energy could mean something else in ME I suppose
  438. [19:27] <Roarian> no reason to think they haven´t found a lot of what we call dark energy
  439. [19:28] <Roarian> and given it an actual name
  440. 01[19:28] <Luolang> I vaguely recall something about Karpyshyn wanting to do something with dark energy in context of the Reapers
  441. [19:28] <Roarian> if it´s natural, maybe haestrom´s sun is just unusually high in eezo
  442. [19:29] <Roarian> if artificial, maybe a past civilization fucked with it
  443. [19:29] <Roarian> to mine eezo or something
  444. [19:29] <Roarian> I could use that as a plotpoint
  445. [19:29] <Roarian> it does happen near geth space & they have a major manufacturing center there in canon
  446. 01[19:29] <Luolang> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-19-ex-bioware-writer-discusses-dropped-ideas-for-mass-effect-trilogy-ending
  447. 01[19:30] <Luolang> ""Dark Energy was something that only organics could access because of various techno-science magic reasons we hadn't decided on yet. Maybe using this Dark Energy was having a ripple effect on the space-time continuum."
  448. 01[19:30] <Luolang> ""Maybe the Reapers kept wiping out organic life because organics keep evolving to the state where they would use biotics and dark energy and that caused an entropic effect that would hasten the end of the universe. Being immortal beings, that's something they wouldn't want to see."
  449. 01[19:30] <Luolang> Maybe that was what the whole dark energy thing at Haestrom was supposed to partly be. It almost sounds like they changed their minds re: the story halfway through the series.
  450. [19:31] <Roarian> hmhm
  451. [19:31] <Roarian> presumably beyond broad strokes, they hadn´t planned out later stuff yet
  452. 01[19:32] <Luolang> I guess not
  453. [19:32] <Roarian> like the quarian/geth conflict and the genophage were planned but not the specifics
  454. 01[19:32] <Luolang> not knowing the major reason for the Reapers's existence ahead of time seems like a really big lacuna though
  455. [19:32] <Roarian> ME1 feels like it is setting up a different kind of story than the sequels gave us
  456. [19:33] <Roarian> have you seen the ending? I don´t think they ever really decided
  457. [19:33] <Roarian> beyond vague handwaving
  458. 01[19:33] <Luolang> Ending of what? ME3?
  459. [19:33] <Roarian> yea, let´s put a halfbaked explanation in the last conversation of the game
  460. [19:33] <Roarian> ;o
  461. 01[19:33] <Luolang> heh
  462. [19:33] <Roarian> the leviathan DLC added some to it
  463. 01[19:33] <Luolang> The Leviathan DLC partly helps there
  464. 01[19:33] <Luolang> yeah
  465. [19:34] <Roarian> but yea, the base explanation is so barebones
  466. 01[19:34] <Luolang> I played ME3 with all the DLCs and the Extended Ending so my experience wasn't as bad
  467. 01[19:34] <Luolang> but I understand why people were originally pissed
  468. [19:34] <Roarian> sure
  469. [19:34] <Roarian> it was a very lame ending after an otherwise good game imho
  470. [19:35] <Roarian> it´s like they forgot to write the last hour or two of the game
  471. 01[19:35] <Luolang> I kind of like the Control ending
  472. [19:35] <Roarian> and just went with run at the laser & cutscenes
  473. [19:35] <Roarian> paragon control seems to me the best ending
  474. 01[19:35] <Luolang> Yeah
  475. 01[19:35] <Luolang> Renegade Control though...
  476. 01[19:35] <Luolang> uhhhh
  477. [19:35] <Roarian> like, everyone lives in some way or another
  478. [19:35] <Roarian> even shep
  479. 01[19:36] <Luolang> Well, a version of her
  480. [19:36] <Roarian> sure
  481. [19:36] <Roarian> but the others pretty much end with dying too
  482. [19:36] <Roarian> except maybe destroy
  483. 01[19:36] <Luolang> Extended Cut Destroy with high EMS has Shepard alive, yeah
  484. [19:36] <Roarian> and i dunno if shepard´s life is worth destroying all synthetic life
  485. 01[19:36] <Luolang> nah
  486. [19:36] <Roarian> that´s at least one whole race
  487. [19:36] <Roarian> lol
  488. 01[19:36] <Luolang> it's not
  489. [19:37] <Roarian> i would think shepard wouldn´t think of sacrificing herself
  490. [19:37] <Roarian> not as a paragon
  491. [19:37] <Roarian> er
  492. 01[19:37] <Luolang> It wouldn't be an issue for her
  493. [19:37] <Roarian> the reverse yea
  494. 01[19:37] <Luolang> She was committed all the way then
  495. [19:37] <Roarian> she was already limping and probably bleeding out
  496. 01[19:37] <Luolang> I doubt it even crossed her mind beyond a passing regret re: her friends
  497. 01[19:37] <Luolang> I just kind of like the image of Shepard as an eternal, silent protector of the galaxy
  498. [19:37] <Roarian> tbf i still dunno if the last bit with the crucible actually happened
  499. [19:37] <Roarian> or if it was a simulation
  500. 01[19:37] <Luolang> So Paragon Control was my favored ending
  501. [19:38] <Roarian> like, she just kinda appears at those choices
  502. 01[19:38] <Luolang> Simulation?
  503. [19:38] <Roarian> well, it did happen
  504. [19:38] <Roarian> but i meant whether she actually walked up to shit and started shooting at the wires or w/e
  505. [19:39] <Roarian> in control, i don´t get why AI shepard couldn´t elect to deactive the reapers
  506. [19:39] <Roarian> similar effect to destroy, but the geth get to live
  507. 01[19:39] <Luolang> yeah, but it'd be kind of redundant
  508. [19:39] <Roarian> sure
  509. 01[19:39] <Luolang> for what Bioware was going for
  510. [19:39] <Roarian> benevolent deity shepard ftw
  511. 01[19:39] <Luolang> which isn't to defend their way of setting it up
  512. 01[19:40] <Luolang> b/c the choice you present there seems like a possible option
  513. 01[19:40] <Luolang> Control the Reapers, have them plunge into the sun or a black hole or something
  514. [19:40] <Roarian> the synthesis ending is just confusing tbh
  515. 01[19:40] <Luolang> Yeah, I didn't get it
  516. 01[19:41] <Luolang> There were some sparkling green wires?
  517. [19:41] <Roarian> apparently yea
  518. [19:41] <Roarian> and now everyone is technorganic
  519. 01[19:41] <Luolang> yeah, it was just a weird ending all around
  520. 01[19:41] <Luolang> the strongest and most well-developed ending for me was Paragon Control
  521. 01[19:41] <Luolang> everything else felt very incomplete
  522. [19:42] <Roarian> I can kinda see the idea they were going for, but it seemed kind of poorly thought out
  523. 01[19:42] <Luolang> and Refusal possibly
  524. 01[19:42] <Luolang> Though I find it hard to think Shepard would opt for that
  525. [19:42] <Roarian> even if the ending cutscene seems like it´s super-cool for everyone
  526. [19:42] <Roarian> -shrug-
  527. [19:43] <Roarian> the destroy ending works, but it´s kind of a downer ending
  528. 01[19:43] <Luolang> It'd be worse if you offed the Quarians, but who the hell does that?
  529. [19:43] <Roarian> lol
  530. [19:43] <Roarian> tbf if i didn´t have the peace option
  531. [19:43] <Roarian> the only deciding vote would be tali
  532. 01[19:43] <Luolang> Legion dying is pretty bad though
  533. [19:43] <Roarian> most of the rest can go fuck themselves lel
  534. 01[19:43] <Luolang> The way you kill him
  535. [19:44] <Roarian> i´ve seen the cutscenes
  536. [19:44] <Roarian> tali committing suicide too
  537. [19:44] <Roarian> damn
  538. 01[19:44] <Luolang> yeah, I'm not sure which is worse
  539. [19:44] <Roarian> same thing with betraying wrex and mordin btw
  540. 01[19:44] <Luolang> But yeah, worst outcome there would be offing the Quarians and then going for the destroy ending
  541. 01[19:44] <Luolang> like, what the fuck was the point lol
  542. 01[19:44] <Luolang> you ended up losing both anyway
  543. [19:44] <Roarian> renegade shepard is not just ruthless, he´s positively malevolent lol
  544. 01[19:45] <Luolang> in ME3, yeah
  545. 01[19:45] <Luolang> ME2 Renegade was more of an anti-hero I think
  546. [19:45] <Roarian> hmhm
  547. [19:45] <Roarian> if you´re a renegade i think you can end like 5 species
  548. 01[19:45] <Luolang> Definitely crossed the line a few times, but usually against "Acceptable" targets
  549. 01[19:45] <Luolang> like that merc she pushed through a window in one of the DLCs
  550. [19:46] <Roarian> the rachni, the quarians, the geth, the krogan (by the genophage continuing) at least
  551. [19:46] <Roarian> any more?
  552. 01[19:46] <Luolang> Not the Turians I think
  553. 01[19:46] <Luolang> Technically, you can kill everyone by going Refusal ending in the Extended Cut
  554. 01[19:46] <Luolang> lul
  555. [19:46] <Roarian> heh
  556. 01[19:47] <Luolang> What squad members would actually survive?
  557. 01[19:47] <Luolang> You can kill Wrex, Mordin, Tali, Legion indirectly...
  558. [19:47] <Roarian> you can drive javik into suicide iirc?
  559. [19:47] <Roarian> that would count
  560. 01[19:47] <Luolang> Samara
  561. [19:47] <Roarian> as exctinction of protheans (again)
  562. 01[19:47] <Luolang> you can let her suicide
  563. 01[19:48] <Luolang> and then off her daughter for the hell of it
  564. [19:48] <Roarian> lol
  565. [19:48] <Roarian> you can kill nearly everyone in ME2
  566. [19:48] <Roarian> of your crew there at least
  567. 01[19:48] <Luolang> Yeah, but that's more from just fucking up
  568. 01[19:48] <Luolang> or not preparing enough
  569. [19:48] <Roarian> hmhm
  570. 01[19:48] <Luolang> Ending where Shepard dies is hilarious to me
  571. 01[19:48] <Luolang> With Joker in a nearly empty hangar
  572. 01[19:49] <Luolang> vowing to carry on the fight rofl
  573. [19:49] <Roarian> mass effect 3 : joker edition
  574. 01[19:49] <Luolang> So, with your story, would you go all the way to the Catalyst?
  575. 01[19:50] <Luolang> Would the Catalyst be a thing?
  576. [19:51] <Roarian> hm
  577. [19:51] <Roarian> i don´t know? I always though the crucible was kind of a deus ex machina anyway but
  578. [19:51] <Roarian> there´s not a lot of credible alternatives offered in canon
  579. [19:52] <Roarian> incidentally, I would maybe include an arc or some such dealing with the virtual aliens that show up in ME2´s cerberus files but make no main game appearance
  580. [19:52] <Roarian> a synthetic race that just kinda exists?
  581. 01[19:52] <Luolang> Virtual aliens?
  582. 01[19:52] <Luolang> Was that a Shadow Broker thing?
  583. [19:52] <Roarian> http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Virtual_Alien
  584. [19:53] <Roarian> The virtual aliens are a race of some one billion individuals who downloaded their minds into a virtual world aboard a starship long ago to avoid the destruction of their civilization. As of 2185 CE, the virtual aliens have established diplomatic contact with the Citadel Council in order to secure a new power source for the systems that maintain their virtual world. The aliens' name for themselves is
  585. [19:53] <Roarian> currently unknown.
  586. 01[19:53] <Luolang> huh
  587. 01[19:53] <Luolang> for something as significant as a new race, it seems to have no presence in the story
  588. [19:54] <Roarian> One month later, it was revealed that a representative of the virtual aliens, Ambassador Sygan, had been using Dr. Detweiler's body to visit the Citadel to speak with the Council.
  589. [19:54] <Roarian> they totes have synth->organic tech
  590. [19:54] <Roarian> that could be useful as a plot point
  591. [19:55] <Roarian> i always figured that in ME3
  592. [19:55] <Roarian> they would be revealed as either reaper-related or leviathan-related
  593. [19:55] <Roarian> but nope
  594. 01[19:55] <Luolang> huh
  595. 01[19:55] <Luolang> Never even knew they were a thing until now
  596. [19:55] <Roarian> the whole possessing people thing sounds very leviathan
  597. [19:55] <Roarian> fun fact
  598. [19:56] <Roarian> superman exists in ME
  599. [19:56] <Roarian> ;p
  600. [19:57] <Roarian> see: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Background_Races
  601. [19:57] <Roarian> see entry DC1938
  602. 01[19:58] <Luolang> rofl
  603. [19:58] <Roarian> the Zha´til are like more extreme quarians btw
  604. [19:58] <Roarian> they went cyborg and the synthetic bits took over
  605. [19:59] <Roarian> due to the reapers
  606. [19:59] <Roarian> then the protheans detonated their star
  607. [19:59] <Roarian> which was apparently a thing they could do
  608. [19:59] <Roarian> protheans OP, pls nerf
  609. 01[20:00] <Luolang> heh
  610. 01[20:00] <Luolang> Would some reconciliation angle be out of the running re: the Catalyst / Reapers?
  611. [20:01] <Roarian> I dunno if that´s plausible, considering how long they´ve been at their cycle
  612. [20:02] <Roarian> although i suppose the catalyst was fairly helpful in the end
  613. [20:03] <Roarian> what do you think?
  614. 01[20:03] <Luolang> I'm not sure if I've seen that approach before
  615. 01[20:03] <Luolang> But then again, I'm no connosieur of ME fanfic
  616. 01[20:03] <Luolang> So I dunno if it'd be treading new ground or w/e
  617. 01[20:04] <Luolang> As far as plausibility... hmm
  618. 01[20:04] <Luolang> Maybe if she has a chance to more directly interface with Harbinger and the like
  619. [20:04] <Roarian> the issue of course ends up being indoctrination and the like
  620. [20:05] <Roarian> the reapers are not that approachable
  621. [20:05] <Roarian> ;p
  622. 01[20:05] <Luolang> yeah
  623. 01[20:05] <Luolang> Approachable in what sense?
  624. 01[20:05] <Luolang> In terms of actually contacting them?
  625. 01[20:05] <Luolang> Or terms of sympathizing with them or something else?
  626. [20:05] <Roarian> they seem to default to ´you know nothing, ant. Also I may slice you into bits because you´re in the way´
  627. [20:06] <Roarian> if not directly subjugating whoever they contact
  628. [20:06] <Roarian> trying to be a diplomat to the reapers seems inevitably to end in being their puppet
  629. [20:06] <Roarian> and until the catalyst none of them listened to anything
  630. [20:07] <Roarian> sovereign and harbinger are dicks
  631. [20:07] <Roarian> if you wanted to have a less adverserial reaper contact, how would you do it?
  632. [20:07] <Roarian> it´s not like they actually respect any of the new races
  633. 01[20:08] <Luolang> hmm
  634. [20:08] <Roarian> and i doubt they´d sit on their hands and not try to indoctrinate whoever comes by
  635. 01[20:08] <Luolang> I think Shepard would need to probably understand the reason behind the cycle first
  636. [20:09] <Roarian> I think the most viable route actually
  637. [20:09] <Roarian> would be the heretics
  638. 01[20:09] <Luolang> The heretic geth?
  639. [20:09] <Roarian> yea
  640. [20:09] <Roarian> they´re reaper-infected, sure
  641. 01[20:09] <Luolang> What angle are you considering there?
  642. [20:09] <Roarian> but they´re not reapers
  643. [20:10] <Roarian> i dunno how much the reapers actually control the heretics
  644. [20:10] <Roarian> in canon it seems to suggest they introduced some base error to their code
  645. 01[20:11] <Luolang> yeah
  646. 01[20:11] <Luolang> well, not an error
  647. 01[20:11] <Luolang> I think Legion said it was just a different way of looking at things
  648. 01[20:11] <Luolang> both were equally "correct"
  649. 01[20:12] <Luolang> 1+1 = 2 vs 2 + 3 = 5 or something
  650. [20:12] <Roarian> yea
  651. [20:12] <Roarian> the heretics could serve as a go-between, I meant
  652. 01[20:13] <Luolang> Would the Collectors be involved there?
  653. [20:13] <Roarian> shep would presumably at least want to understand the enemy, even if they´re implacable foes
  654. 01[20:13] <Luolang> As other potential go betweens or w/e?
  655. [20:13] <Roarian> i figure collectors are too far gone, they´re basically stated to be husks
  656. 01[20:13] <Luolang> The heretic geth seem like a logical point of departure though, given her new synthetic circumstances
  657. 01[20:13] <Luolang> ah right
  658. [20:13] <Roarian> mordin is pretty specific
  659. [20:14] <Roarian> soul... replaced by tech
  660. [20:14] <Roarian> the reapers basically mindcontrol them all
  661. [20:14] <Roarian> i still wonder if the weird bug look was intentional
  662. [20:15] <Roarian> to throw off suspicion
  663. [20:15] <Roarian> or if it´s just how prothean husks happened to end up
  664. 01[20:15] <Luolang> Well, it's not like anyone knew what Protheans looked like
  665. [20:16] <Roarian> the asari did I assume
  666. [20:16] <Roarian> some of them anyway
  667. [20:16] <Roarian> working prothean AI and whatnot
  668. [20:17] <Roarian> ilos is interesting in that it´s a prothean ruin built atop another ruin
  669. [20:17] <Roarian> so the statues are of another race
  670. [20:17] <Roarian> go figrue
  671. [20:17] <Roarian> it may have been the original prothean look
  672. [20:17] <Roarian> later retconned
  673. [20:18] <Roarian> kind of an interesting cthulhian look actually
  674. 01[20:18] <Luolang> right
  675. [20:19] <Roarian> heh, shepard could do the whole prothean cipher thing with Vigil instead
  676. [20:19] <Roarian> or the AI on thessia
  677. 01[20:21] <Luolang> Stepping back from how to specifically go about it, how do you feel about any kind of reconciliation angle in general?
  678. 01[20:21] <Luolang> Would it fit the kind of story you want to tell?
  679. [20:22] <Roarian> it´d be interesting if the reaper war could be prevented by organic-synthetic cooperation, the exact scenario which was basically claimed to be impossible
  680. [20:22] <Roarian> that would be pretty fitting
  681. 01[20:23] <Luolang> Then that'd be an endgoal to work towards for your story
  682. [20:23] <Roarian> presumably you would want the reapers´ worst crimes not to happen though. Like, crimes 50k years ago are distant enough that it´s possible to move on despite them
  683. [20:23] <Roarian> but genocide int he present would be an issue
  684. 01[20:23] <Luolang> Possibly if Shepard takes care of things in the midst of the Collector crisis
  685. 01[20:24] <Luolang> stops the issue before it breaks out into full-fledged war perhaps
  686. [20:24] <Roarian> hmhm
  687. 01[20:24] <Luolang> What would you want to do with the characters re: their arcs?
  688. 01[20:25] <Luolang> ME has a lot of characters, but I figure you'd want to focus on a particular few
  689. [20:25] <Roarian> yea
  690. 01[20:25] <Luolang> Unless you go for a more sprawling approach
  691. 01[20:25] <Luolang> Tali would be super important I imagine
  692. [20:25] <Roarian> It´d be interesting to see bits and pieces of what´s going on elsewhere, if relevant
  693. [20:25] <Roarian> but yea
  694. [20:25] <Roarian> you´d want a core group
  695. [20:26] <Roarian> I wonder if the geth would elect a sort of representative to deal with shepard when she´s doing stuff outside their corner
  696. [20:26] <Roarian> it´d presumably be a legion expy
  697. [20:26] <Roarian> necessarily not the same, but presumably they would have similarities
  698. [20:27] <Roarian> tali is obvious yes
  699. 01[20:27] <Luolang> why was Legions sent out again exactly?
  700. 01[20:27] <Luolang> in canon
  701. [20:27] <Roarian> really much of the ME1 cast would be a good choice since they knew human shepard
  702. [20:27] <Roarian> while anyone knew necessarily only knows the new one
  703. [20:27] <Roarian> anyone new i meant
  704. 01[20:27] <Luolang> right
  705. [20:28] <Roarian> in canon he was sent out after sovereign died
  706. 01[20:28] <Luolang> what was his mission?
  707. [20:29] <Roarian> presumably since the heretic geth followed it & shepard just killed it
  708. [20:29] <Roarian> to investigate shepard specifically
  709. [20:29] <Roarian> it visited all the worlds shepard did
  710. 01[20:29] <Luolang> shepard's actions or shepard herself?
  711. [20:29] <Roarian> and eventually found her body
  712. [20:29] <Roarian> actions presumably
  713. 01[20:29] <Luolang> if shepard's in geth hands, would there be any reason for Legion to exist?
  714. [20:29] <Roarian> he uses a bit of shepard´s armor but that´s it in canon
  715. [20:29] <Roarian> well, he would already exist
  716. [20:29] <Roarian> he existed before shepard died
  717. [20:30] <Roarian> not ME2´s legion with more personality perhaps but yea
  718. 01[20:30] <Luolang> Was he always that collection of 1000+ programs though?
  719. [20:30] <Roarian> yea, that´s how he was sent out
  720. [20:30] <Roarian> so at least since he left the perseus veil
  721. [20:30] <Roarian> shortly after ME1
  722. 01[20:30] <Luolang> would he be recalled if Shepard was recovered?
  723. [20:30] <Roarian> ME2 picks up a while later?
  724. 01[20:30] <Luolang> A month I believe
  725. 01[20:31] <Luolang> the collector attack happens a month later IIRC
  726. [20:31] <Roarian> well, i presume legion would be the one retrieving her
  727. [20:31] <Roarian> in the fic
  728. 01[20:31] <Luolang> alright
  729. [20:31] <Roarian> he found her in canon, so
  730. [20:31] <Roarian> he´d just do a little more than just pick up a bit of armor
  731. 01[20:31] <Luolang> His role was organic / synthetic facilitation partly?
  732. [20:31] <Roarian> yup
  733. 01[20:31] <Luolang> They might use him as the "face"
  734. 01[20:31] <Luolang> re: contact with Shepard when she wakes up
  735. 01[20:31] <Luolang> might as use the guy built for the job
  736. [20:31] <Roarian> yea, he´s already pretty much designed for this sort of thing
  737. 01[20:32] <Luolang> yup
  738. [20:32] <Roarian> he knows enough about organics to get by & he´s synthetic enough to know the rest
  739. [20:32] <Roarian> ;p
  740. 01[20:32] <Luolang> So, Legion'd be critical to at least the opening arc of your story
  741. [20:32] <Roarian> hmhm
  742. 01[20:32] <Luolang> Would you leave Wrex at Tuchanka and w/e here?
  743. 01[20:32] <Luolang> I'm not sure if he can afford to leave it
  744. [20:32] <Roarian> hmhm
  745. 01[20:33] <Luolang> Anything with Garrus?
  746. [20:33] <Roarian> I imagine that shepard would check up on everyone at least though
  747. [20:33] <Roarian> if not physically, in some other way
  748. 01[20:34] <Luolang> Geth would probably be able to recover intel on Wrex's presence
  749. [20:34] <Roarian> ah garrus
  750. 01[20:34] <Luolang> He's in a relatively public light there
  751. [20:34] <Roarian> archangel badassery is go
  752. 01[20:34] <Luolang> heh
  753. [20:34] <Roarian> he´d presumably get involved again, he never does seem to learn
  754. 01[20:34] <Luolang> Miranda and Jacob might be antagonists here perhaps
  755. 01[20:34] <Luolang> re: the ME2 characters
  756. [20:34] <Roarian> i doubt they´d care much for synth shep yea
  757. 01[20:35] <Luolang> And I doubt Shep'd care for Cerberus
  758. [20:35] <Roarian> esp. if they figure out there´s reaper tech involved
  759. [20:35] <Roarian> and yes
  760. 01[20:35] <Luolang> So probably not involved with Shep's struggle as a core character
  761. [20:35] <Roarian> re: ME2 characters, I wouldn´t mind seeing a few of them but most don´t seem too relevant
  762. 01[20:35] <Luolang> Mordin?
  763. 01[20:35] <Luolang> or no?
  764. [20:36] <Roarian> mordin is awesome, so preferably he´d be in there
  765. [20:36] <Roarian> ;p
  766. 01[20:36] <Luolang> If Shep goes to Omega, that's Garrus and Mordin right there
  767. [20:36] <Roarian> hmhm
  768. 01[20:36] <Luolang> What would Liara be up to here?
  769. 01[20:36] <Luolang> Since you opined she wouldn't go for the intelligence broker route
  770. [20:37] <Roarian> well, if we presume she didn´t end up going for intelligence broker, maybe she´d double down on her old expertise and start digging double-time into prothean and reaper research
  771. 01[20:37] <Luolang> Would she be at Mars?
  772. [20:37] <Roarian> that could accelerate some of the canon events of ME3 like discovering stuff about the cataylst
  773. 01[20:37] <Luolang> like in ME3?
  774. [20:37] <Roarian> if that is to be a significant part of the plot, i could see that
  775. [20:39] <Roarian> I´d like to think Anderson would still be a friendly ear to shep
  776. [20:39] <Roarian> even with all this
  777. 01[20:39] <Luolang> Yeah.
  778. 01[20:39] <Luolang> Probably skeptical it's actually Shepard at first
  779. 01[20:39] <Luolang> but once he's convinced it's actually her
  780. 01[20:39] <Luolang> What would happen with EDI here?
  781. 01[20:39] <Luolang> Just a slave to Cerberus or something?
  782. [20:39] <Roarian> would she exist?
  783. 01[20:39] <Luolang> hmm
  784. [20:40] <Roarian> cerberus made it for the new normandy
  785. [20:40] <Roarian> didn´t they?
  786. 01[20:40] <Luolang> right
  787. [20:40] <Roarian> which i presume they wouldn´t build if their return of shepard plan doesn´t work out
  788. [20:40] <Roarian> butterflies
  789. 01[20:41] <Luolang> so no EDI I imagine
  790. [20:41] <Roarian> in any case, Shep would fill most of the same boxes
  791. 01[20:41] <Luolang> heh
  792. [20:41] <Roarian> so nice as she is, she´s kind of redundant
  793. 01[20:41] <Luolang> If Shep gets / inhabits a new ship of her own, would Joker even be needed?
  794. [20:41] <Roarian> also having joker make AI jokes with shepard this time would be amusing
  795. 01[20:42] <Luolang> "Hey Commander, ease off the ship, okay?"
  796. 01[20:42] <Luolang> "Joker, I am the ship."
  797. [20:42] <Roarian> in canon, after EDI is unshackled, it´s kinda implied EDI can do most of it
  798. [20:42] <Roarian> she just doesn´t
  799. [20:42] <Roarian> joker gets kinda lazy about it iirc
  800. [20:43] <Roarian> ;p
  801. 01[20:43] <Luolang> Would she want to just leave Joker on the sidelines here?
  802. 01[20:43] <Luolang> Since presumably he's not strictly necessary
  803. [20:44] <Roarian> I presume she´d just do the EDI thing and let him to his expertise, even if he is flying her around
  804. [20:44] <Roarian> just like old times ;p
  805. 01[20:44] <Luolang> alright
  806. 01[20:44] <Luolang> but I imagine he wouldn't be a character in focus
  807. 01[20:44] <Luolang> in the way Tali or Legion might be
  808. [20:44] <Roarian> i mean, by that logic EDI could fill in most of the duties on a ship
  809. [20:44] <Roarian> it comes in handy late in ME2
  810. [20:45] <Roarian> but they still have a crew
  811. [20:45] <Roarian> and yea, joker would presumably be there but not a major character
  812. [20:45] <Roarian> kinda like some of the other supporting cast from ME in general
  813. [20:45] <Roarian> kelly chambers and the engineers and such come to mind
  814. 01[20:46] <Luolang> would they need to even be a thing here?
  815. 01[20:46] <Luolang> I figure there would just be geth on board
  816. 01[20:46] <Luolang> to handle that stuff
  817. [20:46] <Roarian> sure
  818. 01[20:46] <Luolang> re: background staff
  819. [20:46] <Roarian> there´s a nice ME3 mod which adds some interesitng stuff like that
  820. [20:46] <Roarian> if you rescue the geth or make peace you get geth crew on board
  821. [20:46] <Roarian> among other things
  822. 01[20:47] <Luolang> I think I had that mod
  823. 01[20:47] <Luolang> was it EGM?
  824. [20:47] <Roarian> not sure?
  825. [20:47] <Roarian> it was somewhat unstable in places iirc but
  826. 01[20:47] <Luolang> I remember geth in the armory / hangar area
  827. [20:47] <Roarian> it added some content
  828. 01[20:47] <Luolang> after Rannoch
  829. 01[20:49] <Luolang> So that's Tali, Legion, Garrus, Mordin, potentially Liara
  830. 01[20:49] <Luolang> seems like a full suite of core characters
  831. 01[20:50] <Luolang> unless you think there are others you'd want to incorporate?
  832. [20:50] <Roarian> hmmm
  833. [20:51] <Roarian> which one was the non-shit quarian admiral
  834. [20:51] <Roarian> heh
  835. [20:51] <Roarian> not a major character but presumably would be nice to get invovled
  836. 01[20:52] <Luolang> the female one that wasn't the mad scientist?
  837. 01[20:52] <Luolang> is that the one?
  838. [20:52] <Roarian> yea
  839. 01[20:52] <Luolang> Shala'Raan
  840. [20:52] <Roarian> could probably have minor cameo roles for some of the lesser used characters, the replacements for the ones who die in ME2
  841. 01[20:53] <Luolang> die?
  842. 01[20:53] <Luolang> you're killing off the ME2 characters?
  843. [20:53] <Roarian> I always thought it was amusing they only existed to be rarely seen backup characters
  844. [20:53] <Roarian> no, i meant that they would still exist
  845. [20:53] <Roarian> and technically they are party members
  846. [20:53] <Roarian> even if 90% of people probably don´t see them
  847. [20:54] <Roarian> ;p
  848. 01[20:54] <Luolang> I'm a little confused, sorry, haha.
  849. 01[20:54] <Luolang> Are you referring to your story here?
  850. [20:54] <Roarian> i did say as cameos
  851. 01[20:54] <Luolang> so, we'd see Shala'Raan on the ship every so often?
  852. [20:55] <Roarian> Perhaps she could be the quarian representative, with Tali electing to stay onboard like she does in ME3
  853. [20:56] <Roarian> It´d also be interesting for a few OC characters with importance to be from the lesser used races in canon
  854. [20:56] <Roarian> we see a shitton of asari and whatnot
  855. [20:56] <Roarian> the minor races are just kinda there
  856. [20:57] <Roarian> ;p
  857. 01[20:57] <Luolang> So, I think the kind of ending you thought might be fitting was what was considered impossible in canon, with organic / synthetic cooperation. What would be the main obstacles to that and which characters would serve that role? I imagine the Ilusive Man and the Reapers themselves initially would be one. Anyone else specifically?
  858. [20:57] <Roarian> i suppose thane is an exception
  859. [20:57] <Roarian> we see very little drell except him
  860. [20:58] <Roarian> I imagine that the quarian/geth conflict and the larger mistrust of AIs among council species
  861. [20:58] <Roarian> are fairly significant as well
  862. 01[20:59] <Luolang> And how you envision the resolution re: those conflicts would go?
  863. [20:59] <Roarian> in ME3 the quarians end up making up with the geth in one timeline, but i doubt it would have resolved issues if it weren´t for the extinction war going on
  864. [20:59] <Roarian> people had other things to worry about
  865. [20:59] <Roarian> than the geth
  866. 01[20:59] <Luolang> With the Reapers themselves, the reconciliation itself is the end-goal, so that'd be one manner in which the story would resolve that conflict.
  867. [20:59] <Roarian> hmhm
  868. [20:59] <Roarian> i would not want to replicate the canon resolution
  869. 01[21:00] <Luolang> How do you see, ultimately, the Illusive Man w/ Cerberus, the Council in relation to AI issues, and the geth / quarian conflict be addressed?
  870. [21:02] <Roarian> wrt cerberus, I figure that if he does end up going with reaper tech ahead of time, even attempts at diplomacy may ultimately fail when his reasoning is affected. On the other hand, it would be interesting if harper himself might be swayed to some kind of agreement, and his subordinates take matters into their own hand
  871. [21:02] <Roarian> kai leng seems a lot more fucked up than harper a lot earlier
  872. [21:02] <Roarian> for example
  873. 01[21:02] <Luolang> Perhaps Miranda or er, Kai Leng, disagree
  874. [21:03] <Roarian> miranda would be interesting - goes from championing shepard to the complete opposite
  875. [21:03] <Roarian> how would she arrive there?
  876. [21:03] <Roarian> perhaps projecting her personal problems, maybe things go terribly with her family
  877. 01[21:04] <Luolang> One angle I was wondering you might exploit is her own partly artificial nature
  878. [21:04] <Roarian> and dedicating herself to the cause is her way of dealing
  879. 01[21:04] <Luolang> She's literally a designer baby
  880. 01[21:04] <Luolang> A step below a synthetically constructed organism
  881. [21:04] <Roarian> well, haughty hypocrites are nothing new
  882. 01[21:04] <Luolang> Or maybe she sees TIM being indoctrinated himself
  883. 01[21:04] <Luolang> in going along with Shepard
  884. [21:05] <Roarian> he does seem to kind of agree with shepard in ME3´s end, even if he´s nearly all gone
  885. 01[21:05] <Luolang> yeah, it'd have to be carefully crafted
  886. 01[21:05] <Luolang> but it could be done
  887. [21:06] <Roarian> also miranda betraying him would be a nice shock to pull there
  888. 01[21:06] <Luolang> Also, TIM might just get the Shadow Broker's intel here
  889. [21:06] <Roarian> you think this might actually end peacefully
  890. 01[21:06] <Luolang> Liara booked it in canon
  891. 01[21:06] <Luolang> What might end peacefully?
  892. 01[21:07] <Luolang> I could see TIM having peaceful intentions towards Shepard eventually
  893. [21:07] <Roarian> yea, i meant with cerberus
  894. 01[21:07] <Luolang> As far as the Miranda / TIM / Shepard situation, hmm...
  895. 01[21:07] <Luolang> Could you see her going as far as TIM did re with the husks and w/e?
  896. 01[21:07] <Luolang> I can't entirely see that
  897. 01[21:07] <Luolang> but she did defend some of Cerberus's projects in canon
  898. 01[21:08] <Luolang> like with the rachni IIRC
  899. [21:08] <Roarian> it´d be nice if shepard could make a good case that most of the organic/synthetic hatreds that have flared over the course of ME are the fault of their interference, not because of any sort of inevitable fate. That they´re just engineering their own justification there.
  900. [21:08] <Roarian> to the reapers i mean
  901. 01[21:08] <Luolang> yeah
  902. 01[21:09] <Luolang> I imagine that'd be a thread you'd revisit multiple times in the story
  903. [21:09] <Roarian> hmhm
  904. [21:10] <Roarian> i could see miranda being the leader of a less overtly fucked up cerberus
  905. 01[21:10] <Luolang> Would you kill off Jack here?
  906. [21:10] <Roarian> but still pretty insular
  907. 01[21:10] <Luolang> Or maybe he manages to escape or something
  908. 01[21:10] <Luolang> joins Shepard
  909. [21:10] <Roarian> oh, that jack
  910. [21:10] <Roarian> i was thinking ´when did she get a sex change´
  911. 01[21:10] <Luolang> er TIM
  912. 01[21:10] <Luolang> rofl
  913. [21:11] <Roarian> well, the dramatic thing would be for miranda to shoot him
  914. [21:11] <Roarian> dunno if TIM is the type to cut and run
  915. 01[21:11] <Luolang> It would depend on the specifics of the encounter I guess
  916. 01[21:12] <Luolang> If you push the postorganic themes in the story, he might be the first convert
  917. 01[21:12] <Luolang> re: Shepard's ideal or ideas
  918. [21:12] <Roarian> i could see him tricking her, I suppose. You know, she goes to shoot him, all she hits is his hologram
  919. [21:13] <Roarian> already gone, leaving a few last words before vanishing for a while
  920. 01[21:13] <Luolang> right
  921. [21:13] <Roarian> maybe he takes over as shadow broker
  922. [21:13] <Roarian> heh
  923. 01[21:13] <Luolang> well, in canon he did find the base
  924. [21:13] <Roarian> turn canon upside down a bit
  925. 01[21:13] <Luolang> lol, yeah
  926. [21:13] <Roarian> TIM in Liara´s shoes
  927. [21:13] <Roarian> lel
  928. 01[21:14] <Luolang> Wacky idea possibly. Maybe you could do something with the human Reaper towards the end of the story. It gets completed or w/e and in the climax perhaps Harbinger dies.
  929. 01[21:14] <Luolang> But the human Reaper, the newest and last one, basically makes peace with Shepard or something or another.
  930. [21:15] <Roarian> i never really get what the whole idea was there
  931. 01[21:15] <Luolang> Could have some ironic dimensions to it, perhaps. Shepard, an organic that learned to empathize with machines and became one to a degree. And the final Reaper, a machine that learned to empathize with organics and became one at the end to a degree.
  932. [21:15] <Roarian> like pouring people into a mold to make a reaper
  933. 01[21:15] <Luolang> It was creepy?
  934. [21:16] <Roarian> it had some weird lovecraftian thing to it
  935. 01[21:16] <Luolang> The Reapers in general are kind of Lovecraftian
  936. [21:16] <Roarian> the squid ships don´t help obviously
  937. 01[21:16] <Luolang> like the whole dead Reaper segment
  938. [21:16] <Roarian> also going mad from the revelation
  939. 01[21:16] <Luolang> right
  940. [21:16] <Roarian> leviathans in general
  941. 01[21:17] <Luolang> "Even a dead god can dream" is spot on re: Lovecraft
  942. [21:17] <Roarian> giant mindcontrolling squids living in the deep ocean?
  943. 01[21:17] <Luolang> heh
  944. 01[21:17] <Luolang> But anyway, some sort of climactic encounter between Harbinger, the first Reaper, Shepard, and the final Reaper could be interesting
  945. 01[21:17] <Luolang> Dunno
  946. [21:18] <Roarian> it´d be interesting to figure out how to write shepard´s contact with the mind of a nascent reaper. Does anything remain of the race that was their base?
  947. [21:18] <Roarian> or is it all washed away in the fucked up directives they all function under
  948. 01[21:18] <Luolang> It's supposed to serve as a living memory of it in a way, isn't it?
  949. 01[21:18] <Luolang> Isn't that the idea behind the "Harvest?"
  950. [21:18] <Roarian> yea, but they never really seem to explore that
  951. [21:19] <Roarian> we are each a nation and such
  952. [21:19] <Roarian> ME1 hints at it
  953. 01[21:19] <Luolang> There might be a philosopher's stone esque situation there lol
  954. 01[21:19] <Luolang> maybe the collective consciousness of all those distilled organics
  955. [21:19] <Roarian> like they´re geth server hubs for the people they killed
  956. [21:20] <Roarian> maybe it´s not even like individual awarenesses or whatever, but all the knowledge and beliefs of those people
  957. 01[21:20] <Luolang> It could be a Control Shepard situation, but to a much larger degree
  958. 01[21:20] <Luolang> I imagine the Reaper's alter a bunch of stuff, but maybe absent that
  959. 01[21:20] <Luolang> something like their collective memory, knowledge, and will
  960. [21:21] <Roarian> presumably you could explain the canon human reaper as basically a reaper still forming, with most of the collective mind of the humans in there still stuck on horror
  961. [21:21] <Roarian> since they did just die horribly
  962. 01[21:22] <Luolang> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqtAHNQT3-w
  963. 01[21:22] <Luolang> "Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies. 'Each a nation.'"
  964. 01[21:23] <Luolang> maybe they then indoctrinate the Reaper itself
  965. 01[21:23] <Luolang> after the Harvest
  966. 01[21:24] <Luolang> program all that towards a given set of directives re: the cycle
  967. [21:24] <Roarian> i suppose
  968. [21:24] <Roarian> he does say ´minds´
  969. 01[21:24] <Luolang> yeah
  970. 01[21:24] <Luolang> So there might be an opportunity for Shepard to interrupt that process
  971. 01[21:25] <Luolang> towards the end of the story or w/e
  972. [21:25] <Roarian> it´d be ironic if the geth´s way of returning shepard
  973. [21:25] <Roarian> is basically just how they make a reaper
  974. 01[21:25] <Luolang> heh
  975. [21:25] <Roarian> just for one person instead of a lot
  976. 01[21:25] <Luolang> that would be a way to tie in Reapertech
  977. [21:25] <Roarian> hmhm
  978. 01[21:25] <Luolang> and maybe foreshadow things later on
  979. 01[21:27] <Luolang> How would the geth / quarian conflict develop and resolve here?
  980. [21:27] <Roarian> it would also mean the geth came to a similar solution as the catalyst about the same problem
  981. 01[21:27] <Luolang> You said you wanted to avoid mirroring canon.
  982. [21:27] <Roarian> organic/synthetic conflict
  983. 01[21:27] <Luolang> Also, no unifying disaster in the background.
  984. 01[21:27] <Luolang> heh
  985. 01[21:28] <Luolang> I think the turning point there might be something like Shepard's choice when she does that upload thing you mentioned
  986. [21:28] <Roarian> hmhm
  987. 01[21:28] <Luolang> perhaps she expands in more machine-like ways there also
  988. 01[21:28] <Luolang> and so the difference from the Catalyst's philosophy is the element of choice
  989. [21:30] <Roarian> shepard would have to trust the geth quite a lot to reveal literally everything to them
  990. 01[21:31] <Luolang> yeah, it would probably be one of the story's climaxes I imagine
  991. [21:31] <Roarian> presumably without reaper upgrades they can´t really know how shepard ticks any more than they can really grasp reapers
  992. [21:32] <Roarian> i´ll have to read up on all the catalyst´s dialogue to see how best to work with what there is
  993. [21:32] <Roarian> also the leviathans I guess
  994. 01[21:32] <Luolang> yeah
  995. 01[21:32] <Luolang> How were you considering the geth / quarian conflict panning out?
  996. [21:32] <Roarian> i was pondering on that
  997. [21:33] <Roarian> i don´t want to make it the same sort of standoff with the threat of upgrades and such hanging in the air
  998. 01[21:33] <Luolang> more of a slow-burn thing?
  999. 01[21:33] <Luolang> rather than a Mexican standoff to decide it all perhaps
  1000. [21:33] <Roarian> Is there any potential for the quarians to get into problems with someone besides the geth?
  1001. 01[21:34] <Luolang> Don't most of the galaxy look down on them?
  1002. [21:34] <Roarian> i suppose saving your creator´s asses isn´t that creative a way to foster some goodwill but
  1003. [21:34] <Roarian> it´s a possibility
  1004. [21:34] <Roarian> and yes, but they don´t generally shoot at them
  1005. [21:35] <Roarian> what could divert reaper attention to the quarians? That could do it
  1006. 01[21:35] <Luolang> hmm
  1007. [21:35] <Roarian> or collectors i suppose
  1008. [21:35] <Roarian> same thing
  1009. 01[21:36] <Luolang> Maybe they twig onto something re: the Reapers that makes them a threat?
  1010. 01[21:36] <Luolang> Like maybe the thing at Haestrom isn't a complete wash re: intel
  1011. [21:37] <Roarian> haestrom was an attempt by a past race to use the crucible, but they attempted to power it with a star because the citadel was lost?
  1012. [21:37] <Roarian> spitballing here
  1013. 01[21:37] <Luolang> yeah
  1014. 01[21:37] <Luolang> hmm
  1015. [21:37] <Roarian> it didn´t extend across the galaxy, just locally
  1016. [21:37] <Roarian> and fucked up the star
  1017. 01[21:37] <Luolang> The Reapers went super hard after that one colony in ME3, right?
  1018. 01[21:38] <Luolang> where indoctrination was being figured out?
  1019. 01[21:38] <Luolang> where Miranda showed up
  1020. [21:38] <Roarian> perhaps the race that lived there died out and the reaper being birthed didn´t make it
  1021. [21:38] <Roarian> and its remains are on heastrom
  1022. [21:38] <Roarian> that would do it
  1023. [21:38] <Roarian> if they found something like that
  1024. [21:38] <Roarian> hmmm
  1025. [21:38] <Roarian> yea, i think so
  1026. 01[21:38] <Luolang> So if they felt the kinds of things you indicate, the Reapers might feel threatened
  1027. 01[21:39] <Luolang> would want to make their own moves against the Quarians perhaps
  1028. 01[21:39] <Luolang> heck, it could be a spinoff of the situation with Tali's father?
  1029. [21:39] <Roarian> maybe the geth back down from the system to avoid conflict with the quarians
  1030. 01[21:39] <Luolang> Re: the experiments and all?
  1031. [21:39] <Roarian> after shepard urges them to caution
  1032. 01[21:39] <Luolang> and that mad scientist Admiral Xen person
  1033. [21:39] <Roarian> that would let them investigate more without geth interference
  1034. [21:40] <Roarian> they are studying geth tech & run across reaper tech without recognizing it for what it is
  1035. [21:40] <Roarian> but it´s dead reaper tech
  1036. [21:40] <Roarian> properly dead
  1037. 01[21:40] <Luolang> They might start doing active development in it with the angle of dealing with the geth once and for all
  1038. 01[21:40] <Luolang> but they're messing with forces they never should have touched...
  1039. [21:41] <Roarian> hmhm, and the reapers realize all the information about their own technology is getting sent to the migrant fleet
  1040. [21:41] <Roarian> without indoctrination
  1041. 01[21:41] <Luolang> right, and pretty critical stuff too
  1042. 01[21:41] <Luolang> stuff that might potentially allow organics a chance at fighting back
  1043. 01[21:41] <Luolang> maybe
  1044. [21:41] <Roarian> and the quarians are in a precarious position so they´d probably just elect to wipe them out
  1045. 01[21:41] <Luolang> Yeah
  1046. 01[21:42] <Luolang> They might try to use the heretic geth for that
  1047. 01[21:42] <Luolang> as a proxy
  1048. [21:42] <Roarian> or the collectors
  1049. 01[21:42] <Luolang> right
  1050. [21:42] <Roarian> collector ships are pretty beastly after all
  1051. 01[21:42] <Luolang> but anyway, the Quarians way in over their head
  1052. [21:42] <Roarian> hmhm
  1053. 01[21:42] <Luolang> Shepard and the Geth to deal with their own mess
  1054. [21:43] <Roarian> giant fleet of geth warships show up, half the quarian people have an aneurysm
  1055. 01[21:43] <Luolang> heh
  1056. [21:44] <Roarian> of course the reapers would get pretty interested in the remaining geth after that
  1057. 01[21:44] <Luolang> yeah, and that can be used to continue the direct conflict Shepard would have with the Collectors
  1058. [21:44] <Roarian> assuming they´d mostly avoided their eye post-heretics
  1059. 01[21:44] <Luolang> and it's an angle for her to get involved with them
  1060. 01[21:44] <Luolang> even w/o Cerberus
  1061. [21:44] <Roarian> hmhm
  1062. 01[21:44] <Luolang> Also, re postorganic possibilities... do you think Tali would eventually be open to experimentation there?
  1063. [21:46] <Roarian> i imagine tali would be open to the thing which they describe in canon, where a geth helps restart the immune system. Might take a while, but I imagine having shepard around might sway her to be consider stuff
  1064. 01[21:46] <Luolang> Could symbolize geth / quarian integration perhaps, how Tali is a step forward in certain ways re: the quarian's future and what not
  1065. [21:46] <Roarian> -be
  1066. 01[21:46] <Luolang> ah okay
  1067. [21:46] <Roarian> tali shows up without her mask
  1068. [21:46] <Roarian> with geth integrated into her suit
  1069. [21:46] <Roarian> would work
  1070. 01[21:46] <Luolang> Would definitely shock the quarians by a lot
  1071. 01[21:46] <Luolang> but also get some thinking
  1072. [21:47] <Roarian> might even start with the geth training her immune system, but it would take years
  1073. [21:47] <Roarian> so she ends up electing for an implant or the like, which would be more obviously cyborgish
  1074. 01[21:47] <Luolang> yeah
  1075. [21:48] <Roarian> and a definite hint she´s less committed to her anti-synthetic stance. I mean, if she ends up shipping out with cybershep
  1076. [21:48] <Roarian> she´d probably have to be more accepting
  1077. 01[21:48] <Luolang> right
  1078. 01[21:48] <Luolang> it being Shep would probably go a long way towards that
  1079. [21:48] <Roarian> of course some quarians would be kind of upset over the whole thing
  1080. 01[21:48] <Luolang> it'd take time, but I think she could get there
  1081. [21:49] <Roarian> there´s some dumbasses on the admirality board
  1082. 01[21:49] <Luolang> that one hardliner guy, uh...
  1083. 01[21:49] <Luolang> forget his name
  1084. 01[21:49] <Luolang> Rael'Zorah
  1085. 01[21:49] <Luolang> wait, no
  1086. 01[21:49] <Luolang> that's Tali's dad lol
  1087. [21:49] <Roarian> that´s the father
  1088. [21:49] <Roarian> as noted by surname
  1089. 01[21:49] <Luolang> Han'Gerrel
  1090. 01[21:50] <Luolang> that's the dude
  1091. 01[21:50] <Luolang> he'd probably be pissed
  1092. [21:50] <Roarian> i mean, it makes for good conflict
  1093. 01[21:50] <Luolang> yeah
  1094. [21:50] <Roarian> i doubt he´d get violent about it, but canon already has basically courtroom nonsense
  1095. [21:50] <Roarian> i imagine he´d go in that direction
  1096. 01[21:50] <Luolang> heh
  1097. [21:50] <Roarian> consorting with the geth and such
  1098. 01[21:50] <Luolang> would there be a schism within the quarians?
  1099. [21:51] <Roarian> possibly, though perhaps more in terms of internal debate than actually splitting up
  1100. 01[21:51] <Luolang> right
  1101. [21:51] <Roarian> they´re in too precarious a situation for that i think
  1102. 01[21:51] <Luolang> And I guess as the story goes on, they'd eventually be more accepting
  1103. [21:51] <Roarian> strength in numbers and such
  1104. [21:52] <Roarian> well, possibly the attempts to mend some bridges with the geth predate the whole reaper/geth conflict in which shep saves the day
  1105. [21:52] <Roarian> so that might be the point where the quarians swing in her favor
  1106. [21:52] <Roarian> and in tali´s, I guess
  1107. 01[21:52] <Luolang> right
  1108. [21:53] <Roarian> the quarians are pretty desperate, i think they´d grasp help with both hands if they realized the existential threat of the reapers
  1109. [21:53] <Roarian> and believed it
  1110. 01[21:53] <Luolang> would you pivot that into an angle re: the council?
  1111. 01[21:53] <Luolang> In this AU, the Quarians would actually be on the up-and-up re the Reapers
  1112. 01[21:54] <Luolang> whereas only Cerberus seemed to take them seriously in ME2
  1113. [21:54] <Roarian> can you elaborate?
  1114. [21:54] <Roarian> and the geth too, they mostly seem to just hang around until ME3 in canon
  1115. [21:54] <Roarian> legion is not a big effort on their part
  1116. 01[21:54] <Luolang> I doubt Shepard would initially consider reconciliation with the Reapers at first
  1117. [21:54] <Roarian> and yea, of course
  1118. 01[21:54] <Luolang> so she might try reaching out to the Council
  1119. 01[21:54] <Luolang> with Quarians backing her
  1120. [21:54] <Roarian> that would be somewhat later then
  1121. [21:55] <Roarian> presumably she´d have had contact with anderson and other people, just not with the council directly?
  1122. 01[21:55] <Luolang> right
  1123. [21:55] <Roarian> knowing perhaps what they´d think of a shepard-shaped AI
  1124. 01[21:55] <Luolang> and perhaps not even within Citadel space itself
  1125. 01[21:55] <Luolang> Anderson might tell her to avoid it for now
  1126. 01[21:55] <Luolang> Maybe the Council sees her as a threat currently?
  1127. [21:55] <Roarian> well, when they know about her
  1128. [21:55] <Roarian> she´d probably be grouped with the geth
  1129. 01[21:55] <Luolang> right
  1130. 01[21:56] <Luolang> For all intents and purposes, Shepard is dead to them
  1131. [21:56] <Roarian> the geth were blamed for sovereign so
  1132. 01[21:56] <Luolang> right
  1133. 01[21:56] <Luolang> Would you have Anderson as Councilor here?
  1134. 01[21:56] <Luolang> that would give Shepard a partial in with them
  1135. [21:56] <Roarian> you know, ´the geth have stolen the face of one of our heroes that defeated them in battle´
  1136. [21:57] <Roarian> hm, anderson as councilor I could see yea
  1137. 01[21:57] <Luolang> would that break into potential conflict? outright war?
  1138. [21:57] <Roarian> between who?
  1139. 01[21:57] <Luolang> Geth/Quarians/Shepard on the one hand
  1140. [21:57] <Roarian> the geth? the council already hates them but they mostly seem to stick to defensive movement in canon
  1141. 01[21:57] <Luolang> Council fleet or w/e on the other
  1142. 01[21:57] <Luolang> hmm
  1143. [21:57] <Roarian> you know, the normandy was sent out to clean up geth
  1144. [21:58] <Roarian> when they got collector´d
  1145. 01[21:58] <Luolang> ah right
  1146. [21:58] <Roarian> there was no push into the perseus veil
  1147. 01[21:58] <Luolang> true
  1148. [21:58] <Roarian> the council seems to be fine with letting sleeping dogs lie
  1149. 01[21:58] <Luolang> they might retaliate if she shows up in Council space perhaps
  1150. [21:58] <Roarian> possibly yea
  1151. [21:58] <Roarian> granted, they´d have to know that first
  1152. 01[21:59] <Luolang> yeah
  1153. [21:59] <Roarian> and the normandy was always a stealth vessel
  1154. [21:59] <Roarian> ;o
  1155. 01[21:59] <Luolang> oh, the Geth would make a normandy clone?
  1156. 01[21:59] <Luolang> or variant
  1157. [21:59] <Roarian> I imagine shepard would pick the name even if it´s another ship
  1158. 01[21:59] <Luolang> heh
  1159. [22:00] <Roarian> presumably if shepard gets a ship via the geth
  1160. [22:00] <Roarian> it would not look like a standard geth ship
  1161. [22:00] <Roarian> that would not be stealthy
  1162. [22:01] <Roarian> maybe they´d just upgrade a quarian vessel, or one of the ships that flew into the perseus veil
  1163. 01[22:01] <Luolang> right
  1164. 01[22:01] <Luolang> insides would just be odd
  1165. [22:01] <Roarian> hmhm
  1166. 01[22:01] <Luolang> maybe they use the wreckage from the Normandy itself?
  1167. 01[22:01] <Luolang> as inspiration or something
  1168. 01[22:01] <Luolang> or maybe even some parts I dunno
  1169. [22:01] <Roarian> heh
  1170. [22:01] <Roarian> there was a hole
  1171. 01[22:01] <Luolang> rofl
  1172. [22:01] <Roarian> the main gun so garrus has something to calibrate
  1173. 01[22:02] <Luolang> of course of course
  1174. 01[22:02] <Luolang> gotta calibrate those guns
  1175. [22:02] <Roarian> maybe the core
  1176. [22:02] <Roarian> that was an unusually big one right?
  1177. [22:02] <Roarian> with lots of eezo
  1178. 01[22:02] <Luolang> I believe so yeah
  1179. [22:03] <Roarian> tantalus core i think?
  1180. 01[22:03] <Luolang> sounds right
  1181. 01[22:03] <Luolang> So, I think you've got some promising stuff here going with the geth and the quarians. Would the other races and their issues come into prominence at all?
  1182. [22:03] <Roarian> at least the ship would sound the same
  1183. [22:03] <Roarian> heh
  1184. [22:03] <Roarian> tali doesn´t have to get used to another engine again
  1185. 01[22:04] <Luolang> One potential worry is that without full-fledged Reaper War in the background, there isn't the same opportunity to do stuff with the Krogan or Salarians, for example.
  1186. [22:04] <Roarian> and presumably yes, though perhaps in different ways.
  1187. 01[22:05] <Luolang> hmmm
  1188. 01[22:05] <Luolang> Any ideas on how they'd come into play here?
  1189. [22:05] <Roarian> it´d be interesting if the krogan genophage issue could be resolved differently - to keep the theme, perhaps by patching faulty biology with technology
  1190. 01[22:05] <Luolang> Geth save the day, huh?
  1191. [22:05] <Roarian> heh
  1192. 01[22:05] <Luolang> Could have a potential in with Mordin there
  1193. [22:06] <Roarian> could make it less about the geth there
  1194. [22:06] <Roarian> since they are less involved than shepard personally & mordin obviously
  1195. [22:06] <Roarian> mordin knows his tech too
  1196. [22:06] <Roarian> would have to think about that though
  1197. 01[22:06] <Luolang> hmm
  1198. [22:07] <Roarian> just trying to think of a way to tackle it without just redoing canon worse
  1199. 01[22:07] <Luolang> what would be the lead-in to it?
  1200. 01[22:08] <Luolang> why is Shepard motivated here to do something re: the genophage or how does that crop up?
  1201. [22:08] <Roarian> mordin seems the obvious link
  1202. [22:09] <Roarian> one thing that comes to mind, perhaps - that bomb on tuchanka. What were the conditions that would make it go boom?
  1203. 01[22:09] <Luolang> oooh, good question
  1204. 01[22:09] <Luolang> hmm
  1205. [22:09] <Roarian> cos tuchanka in even bigger shit might spur as solution to the humanitarian crisis
  1206. [22:09] <Roarian> kroganian crisis?
  1207. 01[22:09] <Luolang> haha
  1208. [22:10] <Roarian> if tuchanka threatens to properly die this time, and the krogan might end up the next quarians
  1209. [22:10] <Roarian> i could see shepard and co stepping in
  1210. 01[22:10] <Luolang> She'd obviously feel something for Wrex's race
  1211. 01[22:10] <Luolang> and Mordin'd have plenty of motivation besides
  1212. [22:11] <Roarian> yea
  1213. [22:11] <Roarian> perhaps the race is dimished so much that the genophage basically condemns them to extinction within a relatively short time if nothing is done
  1214. [22:11] <Roarian> it´d be worse than canon presumably
  1215. 01[22:11] <Luolang> Most info I could find on it is that it was something defunct that Cerberus threatened to set off?
  1216. [22:12] <Roarian> it´s there though, and turians and others know about it
  1217. 01[22:12] <Luolang> right
  1218. 01[22:12] <Luolang> Turians set it a while ago
  1219. 01[22:12] <Luolang> IIRC, if the Krogan threatened to be another major issue again
  1220. [22:12] <Roarian> yea
  1221. [22:13] <Roarian> alternatively someone could set it off as a massive distraction for everyone
  1222. 01[22:13] <Luolang> distraction?
  1223. [22:13] <Roarian> if youŕ e dealing with a mass refugee problem
  1224. [22:13] <Roarian> you can´t really focus on building your army for the death robots
  1225. [22:13] <Roarian> ;p
  1226. [22:13] <Roarian> i mean
  1227. [22:14] <Roarian> reapers are the easy answer to everything nasty
  1228. [22:14] <Roarian> but there´s other groups
  1229. [22:14] <Roarian> could even be the salarians who figure that wrex is consolidating the krogan and them finding out about attempts to cure the genophage by traitors
  1230. [22:15] <Roarian> sabotaging that development might be something they´re interested in, especially if they discover they´re in negotation with the geth/shepard
  1231. 01[22:16] <Luolang> The Dalatrass was pretty hardline yeah
  1232. 01[22:17] <Luolang> I could see STG being dispatched to do that
  1233. 01[22:17] <Luolang> that'd basically be attempted genocide though, right?
  1234. [22:17] <Roarian> also i could see mordin learning about it via his history
  1235. [22:17] <Roarian> he presumably still has people he knows
  1236. [22:18] <Roarian> well, yea, but
  1237. 06[22:18] * Roarian gestures at genophage
  1238. [22:18] <Roarian> turians fired the shot last time, would they be the ones again?
  1239. 01[22:18] <Luolang> hmm, dunno
  1240. [22:18] <Roarian> or would the salarians actually do the dirty work themselves this time
  1241. 01[22:18] <Luolang> who was the Primarch before Adrien again?
  1242. 01[22:18] <Luolang> Victus seemed reasonably sane
  1243. 01[22:19] <Luolang> though maybe he could also be convinced it's necessary
  1244. [22:19] <Roarian> fedorian?
  1245. 01[22:19] <Luolang> sounds about right
  1246. 01[22:19] <Luolang> Don't know what he's like
  1247. [22:19] <Roarian> i don´t think we ever see him
  1248. [22:19] <Roarian> just mentioned
  1249. 01[22:20] <Luolang> you could make him a hardliner
  1250. 01[22:20] <Luolang> him and the Dalatrass in talks
  1251. [22:20] <Roarian> wrex would probably hunt them down personally if he found out
  1252. [22:21] <Roarian> would not be pretty
  1253. 01[22:21] <Luolang> def
  1254. [22:22] <Roarian> if the news breaks, it would be interesting if mass protests break out among salarians for example, many of which might have private issues with the genophage, but certainly would object to genocidal bullshit
  1255. [22:23] <Roarian> one way to make wrex see reason beyond those directly responsible
  1256. 01[22:23] <Luolang> huh
  1257. 01[22:23] <Luolang> that would be interesting yeah
  1258. 01[22:23] <Luolang> i imagine there's some collective guilt there
  1259. [22:23] <Roarian> i mean, salarians don´t live long so it´s not like any of them presently were involved in the original decisions wrt the genophage
  1260. [22:23] <Roarian> mordin and such were closest to it
  1261. 01[22:24] <Luolang> godwin's law but shades of modern germany
  1262. 01[22:24] <Luolang> when considering their past
  1263. [22:25] <Roarian> the removal of the people in power then could lead to a more sympathetic leadership & official support for a reversal of the genophage
  1264. [22:25] <Roarian> instead of the canon breakneck plan to do it via subterfuge
  1265. 01[22:26] <Luolang> right
  1266. 01[22:26] <Luolang> thhat's an interesting contrast
  1267. [22:26] <Roarian> i doubt the dalatrass would make it out alive though
  1268. 01[22:26] <Luolang> salarians might kickstart anti-genophage research
  1269. [22:27] <Roarian> the krogans being weakened would help with that
  1270. [22:28] <Roarian> morbid as itis
  1271. 01[22:28] <Luolang> also clears path for wrex maybe
  1272. [22:28] <Roarian> it would take time to build up numbers again
  1273. [22:28] <Roarian> and yea, i imagine if wrex strikes the deal with the new government
  1274. [22:28] <Roarian> he would solidify his position
  1275. [22:29] <Roarian> probably they´d finally move to a new world too, build up krogan society from the ground up again
  1276. [22:29] <Roarian> with blackjack
  1277. [22:30] <Roarian> ;)
  1278. 01[22:30] <Luolang> good man
  1279. 01[22:30] <Luolang> er krogan
  1280. [22:31] <Roarian> hmhm
  1281. [22:31] <Roarian> re: geth as saviours
  1282. [22:31] <Roarian> maybe some artificial lungs would come in handy for the drell
  1283. [22:31] <Roarian> ;p
  1284. 01[22:31] <Luolang> hmmm
  1285. [22:31] <Roarian> that is really just to make thane not die
  1286. 01[22:32] <Luolang> volus suits?
  1287. [22:32] <Roarian> ;D
  1288. 01[22:32] <Luolang> better ones?
  1289. [22:32] <Roarian> the volus/hanar/elcor don´t get much to do in the games
  1290. [22:32] <Roarian> they exist on the periphery
  1291. [22:32] <Roarian> barla von shows up a bunch but he´s basically a merchant with info
  1292. [22:32] <Roarian> and that´s about it
  1293. [22:33] <Roarian> also biotic god guy
  1294. 06[22:33] * Roarian snickers
  1295. 01[22:33] <Luolang> heh
  1296. [22:33] <Roarian> still too bad we never got a badass heavy weapon specialist elcor
  1297. [22:33] <Roarian> they sound so badass
  1298. 01[22:33] <Luolang> was that in multiplayer?
  1299. [22:33] <Roarian> it´s in the codex
  1300. [22:33] <Roarian> never shows up in game I think
  1301. [22:34] <Roarian> they wear heavy weapons on their back and basically work as living artillery
  1302. [22:34] <Roarian> meanwhile the hanar are weak but use tech to fly
  1303. [22:34] <Roarian> which is kinda neat
  1304. 01[22:35] <Luolang> huh
  1305. [22:35] <Roarian> they basically have micro sized mass effect drives
  1306. [22:35] <Roarian> to float around
  1307. [22:35] <Roarian> they normally live in water
  1308. 01[22:35] <Luolang> Zaeed said not to underestimate a hanar IIRC
  1309. 01[22:35] <Luolang> one almost choked him to death or something
  1310. [22:35] <Roarian> they´re not very physical in general
  1311. [22:35] <Roarian> they have poisonous tentacles
  1312. [22:35] <Roarian> so they can do some damage
  1313. [22:36] <Roarian> but iirc they can only lift a few hundred grams with their tentacles
  1314. 01[22:36] <Luolang> whoa
  1315. 01[22:36] <Luolang> that's super weak
  1316. [22:36] <Roarian> yup
  1317. 01[22:37] <Luolang> how does Blasto hold those guns?
  1318. [22:37] <Roarian> mass effect fields? :P
  1319. 01[22:37] <Luolang> cardboard props or something lol?
  1320. 01[22:37] <Luolang> ah
  1321. [22:37] <Roarian> superpowers?
  1322. 01[22:37] <Luolang> He's Blasto, is why
  1323. 01[22:37] <Luolang> Did you listen to that whole movie in ME3?
  1324. 01[22:37] <Luolang> at the Blasto ad
  1325. [22:37] <Roarian> lol
  1326. 01[22:37] <Luolang> I loved that haha
  1327. [22:37] <Roarian> there´s a blasto comic
  1328. [22:37] <Roarian> if you ever read it
  1329. 01[22:38] <Luolang> The sex scene he had with that elcor was hilarious
  1330. [22:38] <Roarian> http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect:_Blasto:_Eternity_is_Forever
  1331. 01[22:38] <Luolang> ah, no I didn't know haha
  1332. [22:38] <Roarian> Cerulean Star mentions that asari believe in embracing eternity, and Blasto replies that if there's one thing he excels at, it is embracing.
  1333. [22:38] <Roarian> heh
  1334. 01[22:38] <Luolang> rofl
  1335. 01[22:39] <Luolang> By the way, any plans re: humans, asari, or turians? Would you do anything with the Alliance, for example?
  1336. 01[22:39] <Luolang> You seem to have some solid potential arcs with the geth, quarians, salarians, and krogan thus far.
  1337. [22:40] <Roarian> wrt the humans, cerberus kinda counts
  1338. [22:40] <Roarian> but I assume shepard would make contact via anderson
  1339. [22:40] <Roarian> with hackett and such
  1340. [22:40] <Roarian> i imagine that would be more directly about shepard and possibly her still living mother
  1341. [22:41] <Roarian> if we go with spacer background
  1342. [22:41] <Roarian> i imagine the asari might get involved because of their working prothean VI
  1343. [22:41] <Roarian> but i imagine in another way
  1344. 01[22:42] <Luolang> Spacer background... how is that related to the Prothean VI or Asari in canon?
  1345. 01[22:42] <Luolang> I played an Earth background.
  1346. [22:44] <Roarian> that is related to shepard´s mom
  1347. [22:44] <Roarian> i think she´s dead as an earthborn or colony brat
  1348. 01[22:44] <Luolang> yeah
  1349. [22:44] <Roarian> but alive as a spacer
  1350. 01[22:44] <Luolang> oh
  1351. [22:44] <Roarian> you can speak with her in ME2 i think
  1352. 01[22:44] <Luolang> huh
  1353. [22:44] <Roarian> each background gets a mission there iirc
  1354. [22:44] <Roarian> on the citadel
  1355. 01[22:44] <Luolang> yeah, I had the gang one
  1356. [22:45] <Roarian> the spacer one gets a meeting with mom
  1357. [22:45] <Roarian> post-resurrection
  1358. 01[22:45] <Luolang> ah neat
  1359. [22:45] <Roarian> i don´t know what the colony one gets actually
  1360. [22:46] <Roarian> anyway, the asari are tougher since in canon they´re basically represented by liara mostly
  1361. [22:46] <Roarian> aria i suppose, but she´s not mainstream asari either
  1362. 01[22:46] <Luolang> I think there's some other survivor I think
  1363. 01[22:46] <Luolang> that has trauma or w/e that shows up
  1364. [22:46] <Roarian> yea
  1365. 01[22:46] <Luolang> Aria could potentially be used via Omega
  1366. [22:46] <Roarian> oh, that´s re: colony kid
  1367. [22:46] <Roarian> and yea
  1368. 01[22:46] <Luolang> since presumably that's where you'd get Mordin and Garrus
  1369. [22:46] <Roarian> although i doubt aria would care
  1370. 01[22:47] <Luolang> yeah, not until the Reapers were knocking
  1371. [22:47] <Roarian> hmhm
  1372. 01[22:47] <Luolang> here she probably tells Shepard to fuck off
  1373. 01[22:47] <Luolang> Samara?
  1374. 01[22:47] <Luolang> hmm
  1375. 01[22:49] <Luolang> Maybe Liara goes back to Thessia here?
  1376. 01[22:49] <Luolang> Unless she's at Mars researching Reaper stuff
  1377. [22:50] <Roarian> i mean
  1378. [22:50] <Roarian> time passes
  1379. [22:50] <Roarian> she could do both at different times
  1380. 01[22:50] <Luolang> Yeah, I was pondering what order would be better
  1381. [22:50] <Roarian> she is on thessia in ME2 and on mars in ME3 right?
  1382. 01[22:50] <Luolang> yes
  1383. 01[22:50] <Luolang> er
  1384. 01[22:50] <Luolang> ilium in ME2
  1385. [22:50] <Roarian> right
  1386. 01[22:50] <Luolang> not thessia
  1387. [22:50] <Roarian> the other asari place
  1388. [22:50] <Roarian> lol
  1389. 01[22:50] <Luolang> hehe
  1390. 01[22:51] <Luolang> but that was when she went the intel broker route
  1391. [22:51] <Roarian> hmhm
  1392. [22:51] <Roarian> could she figure out something about the VI on Thessia from the prothean archives?
  1393. 01[22:52] <Luolang> hmm, could sell it perhaps
  1394. [22:52] <Roarian> no telling what is in the mars database
  1395. 01[22:52] <Luolang> yeah
  1396. [22:52] <Roarian> if they only found the crucible in me3
  1397. [22:52] <Roarian> after decades
  1398. [22:52] <Roarian> if she ends up discovering something about thessia and maybe a location, she might decide to follow up
  1399. 01[22:53] <Luolang> she'd be in thessia and then head to Mars?
  1400. 01[22:55] <Luolang> What would she discover in Thessia?
  1401. 01[22:56] <Luolang> Not the secrets of her religion, I imagine?
  1402. [22:56] <Roarian> hmmm
  1403. [23:02] <Roarian> haven´t though about that much, do you have any ideas?
  1404. 01[23:02] <Luolang> I'm thinking it over
  1405. 01[23:02] <Luolang> My original vague thought had Mars -> Thessia
  1406. 01[23:03] <Luolang> discovers some stuff from canon at Mars, hooks up with Shepard there perhaps
  1407. 01[23:03] <Luolang> they need more info and she figures the Asari would be the next best thing to info re: Protheans
  1408. 01[23:03] <Luolang> If it's Thessia to Mars.... hmmm
  1409. [23:03] <Roarian> well, mars to thessia works
  1410. [23:04] <Roarian> just need to figure otu a way to work it into the overall plot
  1411. [23:04] <Roarian> shepard would presumably be interested just cos it´s liara
  1412. [23:04] <Roarian> but her information is relevant
  1413. [23:04] <Roarian> in trying to figure out what makes reapers tick
  1414. 01[23:04] <Luolang> Mars -> Thessia would be a tie-in to the Asari in general
  1415. [23:04] <Roarian> hmhm
  1416. 01[23:06] <Luolang> So, for the geth there's obviously Shepard herself. With the quarians, Reaper discovery / shenanigans at Haestrom or w/e go out of control, geth save the day --> reconciliation over time. With the Krogan and Salarians, Salarian STG under Dalatrass blow the bomb, Krogan decimated. Shepard, connected via Wrex and Mordin, reaches out to help. Dalatrass exposed, deposed; Salarians outraged, reach out to help Krogan. Humans you've got Cerberus along with Anderson and Hackett. And Asari there's a Liara connection from Mars --> Thessia.
  1417. 01[23:06] <Luolang> just posting to keep rough track of the various arcs you've got here so far
  1418. [23:07] <Roarian> yup
  1419. 01[23:07] <Luolang> Anything with the Turians?
  1420. 01[23:07] <Luolang> In relation to the krogan crisis, Garrus, something else?
  1421. [23:07] <Roarian> i don´t really have anything too meaningful with them since they´re the military arm and none of this involves large scale war
  1422. 01[23:07] <Luolang> yeah
  1423. [23:08] <Roarian> I could see them getting involved if there is a legitimate threat to council space
  1424. [23:08] <Roarian> but otherwise they´re probably not that involved
  1425. [23:08] <Roarian> you have any ideas?
  1426. 01[23:08] <Luolang> Well, the stuff with the Collectors and heretic Geth is more clandestine here, right?
  1427. [23:08] <Roarian> i dislike the cliché of dickhead turian councillor just cos of his ´fingers´
  1428. 01[23:08] <Luolang> not within the Counci's eyes
  1429. 01[23:09] <Luolang> or concerns, right?
  1430. [23:09] <Roarian> and yea, not too public
  1431. [23:09] <Roarian> and yes, if they go after quarians
  1432. [23:09] <Roarian> the council won´t care too much
  1433. 01[23:09] <Luolang> Not a council race yadda yadda
  1434. [23:09] <Roarian> they let them run around in broken ships for centuries
  1435. 01[23:09] <Luolang> yup
  1436. [23:09] <Roarian> they´re not that compassionate
  1437. 01[23:10] <Luolang> maybe Miranda does something?
  1438. 01[23:10] <Luolang> spitballing here
  1439. 01[23:10] <Luolang> Alliance / Council tensions?
  1440. [23:10] <Roarian> srsly though there´s a fair number of garden worlds, surely they have a spare one with the right amino acids
  1441. [23:10] <Roarian> most of the races couldn´t live there
  1442. [23:10] <Roarian> i could see that
  1443. 01[23:10] <Luolang> Tensions from decades ago flare up again
  1444. 01[23:11] <Luolang> Shades of original Turian / human conflict
  1445. [23:11] <Roarian> cerberus agitating the council & anderson trying to keep the peace with the turians in particular ready for first contact war part 2 if necessary
  1446. [23:11] <Roarian> i could see that
  1447. 01[23:11] <Luolang> Cerberus in particular thinking they can actually win this fight
  1448. [23:11] <Roarian> in that case, ashley should maybe be alive
  1449. [23:11] <Roarian> she could play a role there
  1450. 01[23:11] <Luolang> As a Spectre?
  1451. [23:12] <Roarian> that could work, is that likely?
  1452. [23:12] <Roarian> post-dead shep and all
  1453. 01[23:12] <Luolang> Hmm
  1454. 01[23:12] <Luolang> Why was she made one in canon again?
  1455. 01[23:12] <Luolang> Her or Kaidan
  1456. 01[23:19] <Luolang> Udina was Cerberus's in canon?
  1457. [23:19] <Roarian> i think so
  1458. [23:19] <Roarian> in me3?
  1459. 01[23:20] <Luolang> How did they get to him?
  1460. 01[23:20] <Luolang> I'm wondering if maybe they leverage him here
  1461. 01[23:21] <Luolang> With the revelation of Geth!Shep, Udina might try to distance humanity from Shep perhaps
  1462. 01[23:21] <Luolang> elect Kaidan or Ashley as Spectre
  1463. 01[23:21] <Luolang> or suggest them
  1464. [23:21] <Roarian> hmhm
  1465. 01[23:22] <Luolang> Anderson knows it's a political ploy, but also that they are kind of deserving of the post
  1466. 01[23:22] <Luolang> He can't rightly say they're unqualified or something perhaps
  1467. 01[23:22] <Luolang> Survived the whole Sovereign situation, etc, etc
  1468. [23:22] <Roarian> yea
  1469. 01[23:23] <Luolang> Would the Alliance and the Turians break out into actual war here?
  1470. 01[23:23] <Luolang> 1st contact war pt 2?
  1471. 01[23:23] <Luolang> or would you resolve things before they get that bad?
  1472. [23:23] <Roarian> tbf the first contact war wasn´t that big
  1473. [23:24] <Roarian> but I dunno if the council would allow things to deteriorate that far with humans on the council
  1474. [23:24] <Roarian> although i imagine cerberus might mess up the balance
  1475. 01[23:24] <Luolang> probably yeah
  1476. 01[23:24] <Luolang> their ploy from canon might succeed here
  1477. 01[23:26] <Luolang> that might serve as Shepard's in to proving herself
  1478. 01[23:26] <Luolang> and the geth in general
  1479. 01[23:26] <Luolang> lel
  1480. [23:26] <Roarian> ?
  1481. 01[23:26] <Luolang> imagine geth entering the Citadel
  1482. [23:26] <Roarian> heh
  1483. [23:26] <Roarian> after ME1
  1484. [23:27] <Roarian> show up with another fleet
  1485. 01[23:27] <Luolang> only here they're fighting to save the Council
  1486. 01[23:27] <Luolang> from Cerberus and w/e
  1487. [23:27] <Roarian> haha
  1488. 01[23:27] <Luolang> Everyone's all WTF after
  1489. [23:27] <Roarian> xd
  1490. 01[23:27] <Luolang> Not two years ago they almost wiped out the Council and people in the Citadel
  1491. 01[23:27] <Luolang> now they're here barely preventing the same from repeating
  1492. [23:27] <Roarian> ´...humans saved the council from the geth. Now the geth saved the council from the humans. Wat.´
  1493. 01[23:27] <Luolang> rofl
  1494. 01[23:28] <Luolang> So, I think there are several potentially solid arcs here
  1495. 01[23:28] <Luolang> And I like the overarching plot and themes
  1496. 01[23:29] <Luolang> the trick is just to tie them all together into a coherent whole
  1497. [23:29] <Roarian> hmhm
  1498. [23:29] <Roarian> as for shepard, i think we can agree that a more paragon shepard fits best
  1499. 01[23:29] <Luolang> Yeah
  1500. [23:29] <Roarian> ;p
  1501. 01[23:29] <Luolang> Hard to see Regenade Shep opting for the eventual reconciliation route
  1502. [23:29] <Roarian> or any route that doesn´t involve being a hardass
  1503. 01[23:29] <Luolang> yeah
  1504. 01[23:30] <Luolang> Going hardass at a number of these junctures probably results in one side being wiped out
  1505. 01[23:30] <Luolang> re: salarians / krogan, geth / quarians, etc, etc
  1506. [23:30] <Roarian> should probably write up a timeline
  1507. [23:30] <Roarian> at least in terms of sequence of events
  1508. 01[23:30] <Luolang> probably, yeah
  1509. [23:30] <Roarian> what happens when & which plotlines are affected
  1510. 01[23:31] <Luolang> Do you use character docs?
  1511. [23:31] <Roarian> i don´t have one yet for this
  1512. [23:31] <Roarian> well, not for what we discussed
  1513. 01[23:31] <Luolang> I mean in general
  1514. [23:31] <Roarian> sure, googledocs mostly
  1515. 01[23:31] <Luolang> It's something I've been experimenting with
  1516. 01[23:31] <Luolang> a timeline doc, yeah
  1517. 01[23:31] <Luolang> a few outlines as well
  1518. 01[23:31] <Luolang> but also docs for each major character
  1519. 01[23:31] <Luolang> in terms of their development and w/e
  1520. [23:32] <Roarian> here
  1521. [23:32] <Roarian> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-pQsDaT4MdvjzI9R-0tlSxpMJS5o-6jc1WLHE28tbBc/edit
  1522. [23:33] <Roarian> free editing rights ;)
  1523. 01[23:33] <Luolang> hehe
  1524. 01[23:33] <Luolang> I'll try to cobble together a summary of this later, maybe tomorrow
  1525. [23:36] <Roarian> the dalatrass and the quarian admiral count as antagonists i think
  1526. [23:37] <Roarian> and presumably the turian primarch or whoever´s in charge of being a dickhead w/ turians
  1527. [23:37] <Roarian> i like how the core characters are basically a who´s who of my favorites
  1528. [23:38] <Roarian> with maybe liara added, she was never really in there
  1529. 01[23:38] <Luolang> heh
  1530. [23:38] <Roarian> i imagine if i had to pick i might end up dropping thane in somewhere
  1531. [23:38] <Roarian> for favourites
  1532. 01[23:38] <Luolang> Thane is pretty awesome
  1533. [23:38] <Roarian> hmhm
  1534. [23:39] <Roarian> i imagine other characters from the ME universe may show up in unexpected places but they´d basically be glorified cameos
  1535. [23:39] <Roarian> taylor could show up in some cerberus related stuff for example
  1536. [23:39] <Roarian> unless we have a big thing with aria, she will probably be minor
  1537. 01[23:40] <Luolang> oh Jacob
  1538. 01[23:40] <Luolang> For a second I thought you meant Taylor from Worm lol
  1539. 01[23:40] <Luolang> I was like, huh?
  1540. [23:40] <Roarian> lol
  1541. 01[23:40] <Luolang> Then again, the Rachni are bugs...
  1542. [23:40] <Roarian> taylor, queen of the rachni
  1543. 01[23:40] <Luolang> oh yeah
  1544. 01[23:40] <Luolang> Would you do anything with the Rachni here?
  1545. [23:40] <Roarian> presumably a paragon would have let them live
  1546. [23:40] <Roarian> so they might come up
  1547. 01[23:40] <Luolang> yeah
  1548. 01[23:41] <Luolang> in-focus or no?
  1549. 01[23:41] <Luolang> more of a cameo?
  1550. [23:41] <Roarian> haven´t really considered it, but it´d be a nice contrast as such for the geth
  1551. [23:41] <Roarian> like an organic hive mind thing
  1552. 01[23:41] <Luolang> yeah
  1553. 01[23:41] <Luolang> an organic version of them in ways
  1554. [23:41] <Roarian> kinda like the thorian was like an organic reaper in some ways
  1555. [23:42] <Roarian> taking over people and making weird husk things
  1556. End of @View buffer Fri Dec 09 23:48:40 2016
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