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  1. * TAiS46 (TAiS46@us.freeBNC.net) has joined #bitcoin24
  2.  * ChanServ gives channel operator status to TAiS46
  3.  <Dudewmc> That is more power then a central bank...
  4.  * Ian5859_ (~Ian5859@194.228.20.233) has joined #bitcoin24
  5.  <TAiS46> hey
  6.  <Guest65302> Hi
  7.  <galge> @mintz yes they did in podcast 4, haven't heard number 5 yet
  8.  <Evilmax> hi TAiS46
  9.  <Divine___> he's alive
  10.  <mintz> hey you're not the troll fro mthe other night are you?
  11.  <c0rw1n> hi TAiS46
  12.  <TAiS46> open for some questions, lets go :)
  13.  <ikbenwouter> hi TAiS46
  14.  <Xang_> hi tais46, any news ?
  15.  * vnnkl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  16.  * jouke (~jouke@unaffiliated/komkommer) has joined #bitcoin24
  17.  <ikbenwouter> good to hear from you, good luck with everything is all I have to say ;)
  18.  <galge> Hello TAiS46
  19.  <PeehsNoic> sry guys i really like bitcoin and i have almost 90% of my money stored as btc @ btc24 so i don't try to scare people or something but this all came to my mind yesterday and i wasn't sure if i should talk about it... but i had to
  20.  <PeehsNoic> wow
  21.  <PeehsNoic> hi tais
  22.  <Guest65302> TAiS46: nice to see you again in chat
  23.  <Mannn> Ooh, look at that btc price crash
  24.  <Divine___> TAIS46: I think the burning question is, how do plan to take it from here? Any schedule?
  25.  <Evilmax> tais we need answers
  26.  <TAiS46> first: I am working to get out the BTC from your accounts. little login page with the withdrawal function. but I must reset all password, because much people logged in into a scam page -.-
  27.  <Evilmax> no questions
  28.  <mintz> How do we know it's actually him? - Someone was trolling pretending to be him the other night.
  29.  <PeehsNoic> he got op
  30.  <Dudewmc> mintz did he have @?
  31.  <TAiS46> i am just answering simple questions :P i am the real simon
  32.  <darkee> then they managed to take over his nickserv account since he was opped here now... so prolly him
  33.  <Guest65302> TAiS46: The new server is ok again?
  34.  <mintz> ok
  35.  <EwwSup> he could sent 0.0001 btc to a randome adress :)
  36.  <Casimir1904> hi TAiS46 could you leave some ops here....
  37.  <TAiS46> Guest65302: yes all fine
  38.  <TAiS46> Casimir1904: sure
  39.  * wwww (d4fd9f35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.253.159.53) has joined #bitcoin24
  40.  <mintz> you said the video was a joke?
  41.  <PeehsNoic> i got a question: Why did the hotwallet start to pay out btc tonight? And why is there a satoshidice transaction? ^^
  42.  <darkee> TAiS46: so for now bitcoin withdrawals will be made possible but eur/usd withdrawals will probably have to wait due to bank account issues, I'm assuming?
  43.  * DikkieDik (4da7b59f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.167.181.159) has joined #bitcoin24
  44.  <z3c0> TAiS46: how was the trade rollback implemented, was everything rolled back to a certain point in time or was it more surgical?
  45.  <Casimir1904> i said also it didnt confirm about 1000 times last days and that double trades showed up for 10:00 CET
  46.  * thedoktor has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  47.  <Evilmax> tais about euro?
  48.  * vnnkl (~textual@80.81.30.82) has joined #bitcoin24
  49.  <Dudewmc> PeehsNoic +1 about hotwallet
  50.  <Dudewmc> and satoshi :P
  51.  <dafuqer> i second z3c0 as i would like to know if i have btc or euro on the site ;)
  52.  <Xang_> Tais, what about SEPA sent to the PL bank and not yet added to btc24 accout ?
  53.  <amyntor> "TAiS46: how was the trade rollback implemented, was everything rolled back to a certain point in time or was it more surgical?" I was just about to ask the same.
  54.  <Casimir1904> he is the real TAiS46 his bnc and also nickserv identify else no auto op :-)
  55.  * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Casimir1904
  56.  <galge> @TAiS46 1. Why have you been so slow at giving info? 2. why no info at the site but only here and at reddit? 3. can you give us copies of all the documents your lawyer is writing as well as communications you have recieved from your bank(s)?
  57.  * tbtonys (~tbtonys@ip-176-199-146-97.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #bitcoin24
  58.  <Casimir1904> thx
  59.  <TAiS46> z3c0: only the trades wich where made double
  60.  <TAiS46> to the hotwallet tonight:
  61.  <TAiS46> after I set the site offline, where where 0 bitcoin left on the hotwallet but open withdrawals
  62.  * azirty (~azirty@81.17.27.78) has joined #bitcoin24
  63.  <dafuqer> TAiS46: was there trading after the site went offline? (api?)
  64.  <TAiS46> some user (i dont know who) send bitcoins to the hotwallet! and the server started to send out the BTC to the users!
  65.  * wwww_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  66.  <TAiS46> dafuqer: not directly but after a few hours
  67.  * wwww has quit (Client Quit)
  68.  <Casimir1904> the same user sended before also btc to the hotwallet...
  69.  * wwww (d4fd9f35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.253.159.53) has joined #bitcoin24
  70.  <Dudewmc> ok thanks TAiS46, but there were also users here who had this situation, but still no btc from the hotwallet.
  71.  <DikkieDik> TAIS46 the withdraw site you are working on, will you reset the passwords?
  72.  <PeehsNoic> so someone send ~400btc to the hotwallet for fun?
  73.  <ikbenwouter> DikkieDik, he already answered yes to that question ;)
  74.  <guidebook> Hi TAiS46! I started a SEPA EUR withdrawal on March 9, got the confirmation email on April 4 but I haven't received anything. Is this ok? Is my money safe?
  75.  <Dudewmc> DikkieDik Yes, he just said so
  76.  <PeehsNoic> (not caring about loosing it all)
  77.  * nomailing1 (~Thunderbi@osbk-4db15015.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #bitcoin24
  78.  <z3c0> interesting, the wallet from which the 465 BTC came from was already involved with the btc24 hotwallet in February, but not exclusively
  79.  <DikkieDik> thanks Wouter, I came in too late.
  80.  <ikbenwouter> no worries
  81.  <TAiS46> DikkieDik: i must as i said. some users logged in into a scam site and they steal the password from the users. or I will make an email / sms confirmation like it was.
  82.  <DikkieDik> OK, good job, thanks
  83.  <Casimir1904> yes the phising site was repeated yesterday here after every join, to bad no op was here...
  84.  <l-b> http://blockchain.info/de/tx/4b1f4714ae21662f3cd7e6d03d3f1f4f94eeff3c6ef460a7536f006e7d320d1d
  85.  <guidebook> March 29, not 9, sorry
  86.  <Casimir1904> and freenode staff did nothing
  87.  <c0rw1n> yes, there have been two or three phishing attempts already
  88.  <wwww> Your German account is not frozen, so can we withdraw EUR SEPA sent to that account?
  89.  <Flaz> TAiS46> Why don't you post updates directly on the website bitcoin24?
  90.  <Xang_> Tais, you must update the news in the official website, a lot of people don't read reddit
  91.  <l-b> ^ please!!
  92.  <stackofcats> TAiS46, is there anything we as users/customers can do to speed up the process of unfreezing the bank account(s)?
  93.  <Casimir1904> the german account has limits what TAiS46 wrote also on reddit
  94.  <DikkieDik> Perhaps a small link to reddit on the bitcoin-24 site would be a good idea?
  95.  <PeehsNoic> let him some time to think guys ;)
  96.  * XCXCXCXC_ (~XCXCXCXC@HSI-KBW-5-56-195-219.hsi17.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #bitcoin24
  97.  * ikbenwouter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  98.  <djesys1> TAIS, any ETA when the provisional site for withdrawing BTC will be up ?
  99.  <Casimir1904> should we +m the channel and give voice to small group of people in a row?
  100.  <Flaz> TAiS46> A lot of people also would like to know who is legally reprensenting you or at least have an official statement. Indeed until there we can unfortunately only blindly trust you.
  101.  <waynerr__> TAiS46, nobody can login right now and change any data i guess, then just force a new pass for everyone
  102.  <TAiS46> stackofcats: i will ask my lawyer if you can directly write to poland or something
  103.  * ikbenwouter (~ikbenwout@77-172-241-157.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #bitcoin24
  104.  * ChanServ gives voice to ikbenwouter
  105.  <stackofcats> thx
  106.  <Dudewmc> TAiS46: What about users that had BTC withdrawals pending, and approved through email or sms, but have not received the funds in their wallet? Also not after the strange refill today. Do those funds appear back in your system? Or are they stuck in the payout queue waiting for another hotwallet refill?
  107.  * vnnkl has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  108.  * XCXCXCXC has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  109.  <PeehsNoic> Casimir1904: +1 for moderated Q/A
  110.  * vnnkl (~textual@80.81.30.82) has joined #bitcoin24
  111.  <lassdas> so, when your bank account receives dirty money, it's "NOT YOUR PROBLEM" (with your own words), but when stupid users login to a scam site and get their passwords phished, it IS your problem? dats funny
  112.  <amyntor> @Dudewmc good question!
  113.  * qeb has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  114.  <galge> TAiS46: Is it possible for you to post all the communication between you and the banks and lawyers and everything? (Of course removing any personal info)
  115.  <Casimir1904> lassdas, sending dirty money is something you cant prevent without user verification and deny payment from non matching accounts
  116.  <PeehsNoic> @dudewmc +1 from a friend of mine
  117.  <Flaz> +1 galge
  118.  <Casimir1904> against known phising you can
  119.  <TAiS46> Flaz: i am in contact everyday with my lawyer. i can not publish much news at this moment he says. I will ask him if I can publish the information from my lawyer. we had some people sittig in poland (WDR TV) and maybe we will make a press release on the newspaper, we have also contact to internet press and will also publish later there some information, but first we must get back the BZWBK bank account
  120.  <waynerr__> lassdas, especially as its super easy to just transfer money without ever giving personal information ...
  121.  <davidoz_> sounds pretty counter productiv to make media buzz about it.
  122.  * wwww_ (d4fd9f35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.253.159.53) has joined #bitcoin24
  123.  <TAiS46> Dudewmc: I must think about it. maybe I will reset this withdrawals. it should be better i think if someone pay an invoice with this bitcoins and the bitcoins will then double send or something like this.
  124.  <waynerr__> lassdas, just go to local post office and transfer <500euro to any account without ever showing any ID
  125.  <TAiS46> galge: i must ask my lawyer tomorrow
  126.  <lassdas> you guys don't get it
  127.  <DikkieDik> lassdas is there any good reason not to protect the stupid users who entered their credentials? Is the phissing site yours perhaps?
  128.  <Casimir1904> specialy in germany you can fill in paper wire transfers with bank details you get somewhere from and good chance bank dont check the signature
  129.  * Flaz_ (b20c2860@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.12.40.96) has joined #bitcoin24
  130.  * xHire has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
  131.  <Dudewmc> ok thx TAiS46
  132.  <TAiS46> little information. i THINK the biggest exchange has the same problems but i am not sure and can tell it to 100%! i have contact with the CEO and the lawyer of them
  133.  * xHire (~xhire@kos.paskuli.cz) has joined #bitcoin24
  134.  <mintz> so what about the video of double trades going back months, you said it was a joke?
  135.  <moebiusz> i know that at least 1 more exchange has his back account closed
  136.  <PeehsNoic> i guess that's why the biggest exchange have a qeue of ~10k users waiting to be verified ;)
  137.  * paule76 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  138.  * biertrinker has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  139.  <wwww_> Tais: Some of us are scared these money laundering charges are serious and the Polish account will stay frozen for a long time, what makes you confident you can get it back?
  140.  * wwww has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  141.  * paule76 (~paule76@pD955DAB6.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #bitcoin24
  142.  <Flaz_> Well that's maybe not a good thing to leak
  143.  * phlogiston (4da7b59f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.167.181.159) has joined #bitcoin24
  144.  <galge> @TAiS46: Right. Good stuff. I really hope you have great success. I just want to know because it is interesting to the bitcoin community how these letters/emails go back and forth and what kind of legal issues, language etc are involved. If you could relese all the communication it would be incredibly useful for all the people wanting to start up exchanges or any kind of bitcoin business.
  145.  * worriedGuy (~worriedGu@ppp-93-104-162-62.dynamic.mnet-online.de) has joined #bitcoin24
  146.  <djesys1> TAIS, please give us an ETA when site for withdrawing BTC will be UP
  147.  <worriedGuy> hi
  148.  <warefare> @TAiS46: Will you add a verification system in the future as suggested by some users on Reddit? Would make sense I think
  149.  <worriedGuy> i heared that our money is safe... thats great.
  150.  <Casimir1904> you cant just release all informations and communication, this could create terrible problems you can't imagine...
  151.  * DikkieDik has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  152.  * Flaz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  153.  <Flaz_> Well some extracts at least then
  154.  <c0rw1n> redact them, send to wikileaks, trololo
  155.  <TAiS46> wwww_: the bank account was first closed for 72 hours! i got no informations from my bank and think it was only a techical issue. after that I got the information, what my bank account is closed for 3 month now! but we had 7 days to make an objection! and as I can read, the polish bank has no reason to close the bank account. I will censor some lines in the mail from them and publish it tomorrow!
  156.  <Casimir1904> what would it change for the users?
  157.  * geod (d83a0302@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.58.3.2) has joined #bitcoin24
  158.  <TAiS46> warefare: if we had a verification in the past, the same thing did be happen, i am sure ;)
  159.  <davidoz_> they dont need a reason
  160.  <Flaz_> Most  trust and confidence in the process that's being led in the background (not to say the shadows)
  161.  <davidoz_> they can just end the business with you.
  162.  * yoast (~yoast@ip82-139-115-134.lijbrandt.net) has joined #bitcoin24
  163.  <Casimir1904> TAiS46, check the censored version with your lawyer before , better release one day later but sure they cant take action against you because of that
  164.  <TAiS46> caqa
  165.  <TAiS46> Casimir1904: sure, i will do it
  166.  <stackofcats> davidoz_: yes, but they cannot just ground the money in there
  167.  <mintz> can you release the BTC asap
  168.  <moebiusz> TAiS46: What did you mean by saying "It is time for something new. A new big business and a very serious Company, which can not be fuc***! We will be back for sure!" Are you considering closing bitcoin24 and starting a new exchange
  169.  <wwww_> so right now its already frozen for 3 months :(
  170.  <davidoz_> that is true stackofcats :)
  171.  <galge> @Casimir1904: I only meant what will not cause problems. Also I'm not fuzzed if it is released a month from now,but I still think it is very interesting to read this kind of stuff.
  172.  <z3c0> TAiS46: if an ETA for the different stages isn't viable right now, could we at least stipulate that you'll give a short-term schedule before certain functions of the site come back online? (as not to surprise people and catch them off guard)
  173.  <Flaz_> 3 months. A very interesting information that we did not have.
  174.  <Casimir1904> no its frozen for 3 months but with time to react within 7 days to the case
  175.  <Casimir1904> the information was on reddit also before...
  176.  <waveydave> TAiS46, thanks for your efforts to get this sorted. :)
  177.  <c0rw1n> is the time now still within those 7 days?
  178.  * tronic1704 (bcae5dbc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.174.93.188) has joined #bitcoin24
  179.  <wwww_> yes but its already frozen, now Tais needs to provide some great reason as to why they should unfreeze...
  180.  <Flaz_> TAis46> Would it help if all users sent you "verification" material (ID, proff of residency, origin of moneu) ?
  181.  * twist_ (~hooke@host-2-101-242-175.as13285.net) has joined #bitcoin24
  182.  <godzilla123> TAiS46 maybe you have answered this, but when can we expect to get our btc back.
  183.  <TAiS46> moebiusz: no, not closing btc24, but we have new partners, good lawyer which will make an bank account with us together, make new contracts with the banks specified to bitcoin and so on! we also planning new projects, but this has no priority at this moment. the first think is to get the bank account bank!!!
  184.  <waveydave> I am waiting only for a pending withdrawal. Any timeframe for these to be actioned?
  185.  <PeehsNoic> TAiS46: Did I understand it right, that you're planning to resume trading? I really liked you're platform and i find it extremely important that there is an alternative to mtgox. Also when you're talking about btc24 2.0 what exactly do you mean? Total rewrite? If so, what do you expect when it will be launched? (Just a rough estimate: week, month, year?)
  186.  <waveydave> Ah, godzilla123 beat me by moments
  187.  <TAiS46> z3c0: my lawyer told me, that it is no good idea to tell an ETA. If i say friday, and the bank account is not open, the people will start to fight again ;)
  188.  * btc_master (~btc_maste@adsl-ull-111-229.42-151.net24.it) has joined #bitcoin24
  189.  <TAiS46> godzilla123: yes, we are workin on it and try to publish a withdrawal page tomorrow
  190.  <Divine___> so does that mean that some of the services like cash via DHL will be reconsidered?
  191.  <godzilla123> TAiS46 thanks thats good info. Hope it hold up tomorrow
  192.  <TAiS46> Flaz_: I don't think that it would help and it has also not helped in the past
  193.  <Evilmax> tais what about euro withdraw?
  194.  * m3n70r (542abe9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.42.190.155) has joined #bitcoin24
  195.  <wwww_> How confident is your lawyer that you can get the account unfrozen this week, small % chance or high possibility? Give us an idea
  196.  * bafin (58bb0073@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.187.0.115) has joined #bitcoin24
  197.  <z3c0> TAiS46: I understand that, I merely mean if you're ready to start something within the next couple of hours (whenever that will be) you'll give us a heads up as soon as you're certain
  198.  <Evilmax> i have only euro there
  199.  <Casimir1904> the euro withdraw problem already told about on reddit and also here
  200.  <phlogiston> TAiS46 thanks for keeping a calm and positive mentality while everyone goes total chaos and sorting this problem out properly.
  201.  <Casimir1904> not possible as long account closed
  202.  <Evilmax> ok
  203.  * nomailing1 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  204.  <worriedGuy> tais46 and thanks for showing up in here, and finally (after 5 days or so) saying something about the bug
  205.  <Casimir1904> not closed frozen
  206.  <Evilmax> so...i can buy btc and then withdraw them?
  207.  <Dudewmc> if this is really TAiS46, then i truly think he is the real deal. An internet cowboy caught up in the world that is not ready for this new age. He is (after some delay, but still) facing up to the monsters and fighting his way out. It feels like a movie :P
  208.  * hias (506c25c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.108.37.199) has joined #bitcoin24
  209.  <TAiS46> PeehsNoic: yes, someone is working on 2.0 but it will be more performance, not much change in the system. maybe a little design change
  210.  <Casimir1904> Evilmax, no one will sell his btc to euro when euro withdraw isnt possible...
  211.  <mintz> they will make a movie about Bitcoin in a few years I think.
  212.  <c0rw1n> ... and we can't sell frozen euros for btc either
  213.  <Flaz_> TAiS46: What is the plan in the case we cannot get the polish account unfrozen?
  214.  <Evilmax> maybe someone...
  215.  <Xang_> TAiS46: what about SEPA sent to the PL bank last week ?
  216.  <galge> @TAiS46: kudis for shutting up about ETA. We DONT need another BFL...
  217.  <godzilla123> A withdrawl form would be great. We can wait for 2.0 after that
  218.  * nomailing1 (~Thunderbi@osbk-4d08b2dc.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #bitcoin24
  219.  <galge> **kudos
  220.  * Flaz (b20c2860@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.12.40.96) has joined #bitcoin24
  221.  * bafin_ (58bb0073@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.187.0.115) has joined #bitcoin24
  222.  * martin_ (4db5f8aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.181.248.170) has joined #bitcoin24
  223.  * phlogiston_ (4da7b59f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.167.181.159) has joined #bitcoin24
  224.  <Casimir1904> about eta all is said
  225.  * wwww (d4fd9f35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.253.159.53) has joined #bitcoin24
  226.  <TAiS46> Flaz_: we will! i have big contacts in poland now. also to the one, who closed the bank account. the germans asked ONLY for help from the polish government! and they agreed and closed the bank account. as I sayed, it is really no big problem the german had! i don't know why they are doing this! its really crazy, i try to say tomorrow more, but must aks my lawyer
  227.  <Casimir1904> <TAiS46> z3c0: my lawyer told me, that it is no good idea to tell an ETA. If i say friday, and the bank account is not open, the people will start to fight again ;)
  228.  <phlogiston_> Think of it as a euro cold wallet :)
  229.  * hias2 (506c25c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.108.37.199) has joined #bitcoin24
  230.  * constl (~Constanti@e177081000.adsl.alicedsl.de) has left #bitcoin24
  231.  * M3n70r_ (542abe9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.42.190.155) has joined #bitcoin24
  232.  <TAiS46> Xang_: they will be deposit on your account asap the page is online again
  233.  <godzilla123> TAiS46 just sort it out and btc24 will regain its respect slowly back
  234.  <amyntor> @TAiS46 what about open orders? are they canceled, or do you you plan to let users cancel them?
  235.  <Evilmax> who has btc on btc24...could sell them for an high price and take the risk
  236.  <Wxll> Hey TAiS46 nice of you to drop in to give an update, I hope you're doing well and things go well in progress
  237.  * asss (3eb2fb1e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.178.251.30) has joined #bitcoin24
  238.  * singular_ (d455bf20@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.85.191.32) has joined #bitcoin24
  239.  <M3n70r_> Hi Simon, i`ve deposited 100 EUR for the 1st time on your german account. can you please tell me if you have recieved the payment? can you post money back or at least give me some hope i haven`t lost em? reference note is : mentor 2430396
  240.  <PeehsNoic> TAiS46: good to hear that! i don't know if i'm talking for everybody but at least for me you restored all trust in btc24 by appearing here! THANK YOU! It's a important thing for the BTC community to have someone running an exchange while beeing trustworthy. I even don't trust mtGox so congratulations ;)
  241.  * bafin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  242.  * m3n70r has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  243.  * tronic1704 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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  245.  * tronic1704_ (bcae5dbc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.174.93.188) has joined #bitcoin24
  246.  <Flaz> TAiS46: Thanks for your answer
  247.  <TAiS46> amyntor: i must think about it. maybe i will start the page without traing function for 12 hours. so the users can cancel the orders and place new one. after that the traing will start again, or i will cancel all trades before starting
  248.  <galge> @Casimir1904 +1 In these kind of situations ETA is impossible.
  249.  * phlogiston has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  250.  <worriedGuy> Tais46 i'd really urge you to consider the withdrawing thing.. if it turns out, that money is lost in the polish account, it might be fairer, to let all users share the losses, not only the ones that were on EUR at the second it happend, or the ones that deposited money that wasn't put into there account fast enough
  251.  <worriedGuy> Tais and i would suggest to cancle all trades.. 12 hours might not be enough time for everyone
  252.  <Casimir1904> better cancel all orders, gives only more crying when some ordes executed for the last price...
  253.  * hias has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  254.  <Casimir1904> remember it was €80-90 at the moment of shutdown
  255.  <godzilla123> TAiS46 can you also let us know to what date will it be rolled back.
  256.  <TAiS46> i am trying really really everythiny to bet BTC24 online! i am traveling around the "world" to lawyer in poland, germany and clear all thinks. i am only at my mobile phone and trying to reach something
  257.  <ikbenwouter> TAiS46 when bitcoin-central was down and went live again they removed all orders that was around 10% at the current rate
  258.  * geod has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  259.  * Flaz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  260.  <Casimir1904> better remove all orders, not big thing to place new orders i guess...
  261.  <c0rw1n> +1 to deleting all remaining orders
  262.  <EwwSup> +1 ^^
  263.  <Wxll> That worked very well with bt-central, and nobody complaeined
  264.  <l-b> bitcoin.de doesn't let you post asks at more than 200% of the current price even
  265.  <PeehsNoic> yep +1
  266.  <bartz_daniel> yep +1
  267.  <phlogiston_> +1
  268.  <amyntor> +1
  269.  <PeehsNoic> i can't even remember if i orders placed :D
  270.  <ikbenwouter> yep worked very well with bitcoin central, there they also gave you 24 hours to cancel your orders beforehand
  271.  <PeehsNoic> *have
  272.  <bafin_> -1
  273.  <M3n70r_> @TAiS46 Hi Simon, i`ve deposited 100 EUR for the 1st time on your german account. can you please tell me if you have recieved the payment? can you post money back or at least give me some hope i haven`t lost em? reference note is : mentor2430396
  274.  <TAiS46> worriedGuy: sure, if the account is blocked for 3 month or more, I will tell you, but just to let all know 2.000.000 € are safe on another bank account ;) If the polish bank will not release the bank account, i am still able to pay the users (not all but maybe some % of all funds available in the users balance)
  275.  * wallmani (~ll@unaffiliated/wallmani) has joined #bitcoin24
  276.  * hias2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  277.  <Wxll> ikbenwouter: that is time enough… if you are serious about your orders you will manage them..
  278.  <Flaz> TAiS46: Who do you think credited the hotwallet with 450BTC if it was not you? Was would be his interest? I don't get it
  279.  <tronic1704_> Tais, Did not quite understand: What about our rest Euros in btc24? Can we buy coins and withdraw it?
  280.  <worriedGuy> tais46 it would still be fair to let all users participate
  281.  <TAiS46> just to let you know, my lawyer told me that i can publish the information. where are about 5.000.000 EUR frozen atm
  282.  * Guest015235 (25189199@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.24.145.153) has joined #bitcoin24
  283.  <worriedGuy> tais not only the ones in EUR
  284.  <galge> TAiS46: +1
  285.  * hias (506c25c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.108.37.199) has joined #bitcoin24
  286.  <PeehsNoic> OUCH
  287.  <davidoz_> noone will sell coins if they cant withdraw ;)
  288.  <Dudewmc> TAiS46 +1
  289.  <TAiS46> tronic1704_: no, you can't but btc atm for it!
  290.  <TAiS46> Flaz: i really don't know who it was! it was also not the address from the second hot wallet / offline wallet!
  291.  * Bubble_ (555dca38@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.93.202.56) has joined #bitcoin24
  292.  <mintz> So what about this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YN101xieCY) from April 2. Are you saying it's fake?
  293.  <nomailing1> @TAiS46, when you restart your exchange you don't need a waiting period. Just clear the orderbook. The waiting period on bitcoin-central was unneccessary
  294.  <Arbitron> ,# by: ,  views)
  295.  <Sjors> TAiS46: I can imagine you're super-stressed about all this, but do know we appreciate your efforts :)
  296.  <Casimir1904> TAiS46, you had also private bitcoins? what about selling (some) of them when they freeze the account for 3 months?
  297.  <wwww> I also think its unfair people stuck in Euros have to bear all costs in case account cant be unfrozen
  298.  <Wxll> Might be one of the arbitrage bug traders that sender the profits back
  299.  * olympico (~olympico@unaffiliated/olympico) has joined #bitcoin24
  300.  <waynerr__> TAiS46, Flaz, probably satoshi tought you could not pay stuff anymore =D
  301.  <Flaz> wwww: Second that !
  302.  <PeehsNoic> i always thought that there are multiple coldwallets? but i would also understand if you try to protect them ;) anyway it's not that important me thinks
  303.  <davidoz_> also unfair to get bitcoins from people who never used EUR or SEPA deposits etc ;)
  304.  * bitChaos has quit ()
  305.  <moebiusz> Will the people that wired money to the German account not be able to used it if the polish gets locked?
  306.  <worriedGuy> davidoz but they would be affected by the freezing anyway, at least if they by change were in euros at the second it happend
  307.  <Xang_> TAiS46: Can you still see the account balance and the money arriving to the PL bank ?
  308.  <TAiS46> Casimir1904 / all: if they really froze the bank account for 3 month! I will sell my private bitcoins for you money. I will think about, how I will handle it. maybe that the user can only exchange some % of their money to BTC … but i must also ask my lawyer what he says about this.
  309.  <galge> I'd say TAiS46 has more love than the guys behind Mt.Lag...bitcoin-24 +1
  310.  * dmonnereau (~dmonnerea@sat78-8-88-174-227-134.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #bitcoin24
  311.  * Flaz_ (b20c2860@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.12.40.96) has joined #bitcoin24
  312.  <TAiS46> Xang_: yes i can
  313.  * wwww_ (d4fd9f35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.253.159.53) has joined #bitcoin24
  314.  <worriedGuy> tais thats awesome
  315.  * asss_ (3eb2fb1e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.178.251.30) has joined #bitcoin24
  316.  * DontTrustThisMan (555dca38@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.93.202.56) has joined #bitcoin24
  317.  <PeehsNoic> galge: +1 totally awesome step to come here and answer questions
  318.  <godzilla123> TAiS46 can't you just ask your banks to reverse the payments
  319.  <godzilla123> reverse everything
  320.  * M3n70r (542abe9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.42.190.155) has joined #bitcoin24
  321.  <Casimir1904> i dont have money in the site, just for the others as possible option, introducing trading fees would also be an option to cover loss...
  322.  <godzilla123> btc trades, euro deposits etc
  323.  <c0rw1n> mh that's not how banks work godzilla123
  324.  <TAiS46> godzilla123: asked, but they will not do it! i am not able to do any transaction on this bank account anymore
  325.  <worriedGuy> tais46 i know that its very private information, and totally understand if you dont wanna tell.. but how much btc could you spend for that? so is it only a few %, or can we be sure to get a large amount (<75%) of our money back?
  326.  * singular_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  327.  <worriedGuy> tais46 (just talking about the case where the money is frozen for 3months, and you have to sell private coins)
  328.  <TAiS46> worriedGuy: I will not tell how much BTC i am holding private. but i can tell, that it is not 5.5 million EUR ;)
  329.  * tronic1704_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  330.  * M3n70r_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  331.  * Flaz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  332.  <c0rw1n> depends at what rate... :)
  333.  <ikbenwouter> lol c0rw1n
  334.  <PeehsNoic> ^^
  335.  <Casimir1904> in few years maybe...
  336.  <TAiS46> if the money is really frozen for 3 month! ALL OF YOU have the chance to write an mail to the government. I will give you than more informations. but 3 month is the maximal time!!!
  337.  * Bubble_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  338.  * hias has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  339.  <floater> @TAIS: Everyone would cool down a little if you could at least partially pay out EUR withdrawals from the other bank account right off. Than many wont sue you and even wait 3 months
  340.  <mintz> but if account frozen for 3 months you'll still be able to release the BTC and USD right?
  341.  <nomailing1> ohh yes, i would write a letter, if that helps
  342.  * asss has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  343.  <galge> PeeshNoic: agreed. I have great sympathy for people struggling with regulation, govt and banks
  344.  <Casimir1904> i could live with that and would also deposit money again to buy bts when trading engine open again
  345.  <djesys1> And release BTC´s...that would make a lotta people happy !
  346.  <DontTrustThisMan> Who exactly had the account in Poland frozen? "German government" makes no sense.
  347.  <zewelor> TAiS46: what about transactions before turning off webist ? If i sold my btc there were sold or not ? I got 3x euro for that trade, does it mean i still have that bitcoins, or i have sold them and got correct euro amount ?
  348.  * srac (d5abc44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.171.196.75) has joined #bitcoin24
  349.  <Sjors> DontTrustThisMan: it's probably german law enforcement as a whole
  350.  <Casimir1904> the other bank account is limited as TAiS46 said earlier...
  351.  <worriedGuy> tais46 ok.. I wish you good luck with all this. You seem to be a really good guy.. according to your posts you're a really bad coder, and you might have been way to naive for this, but at least you're an idealist and believe in what you're doing.
  352.  <ikbenwouter> he told us already that everyone can withdraw their BTC soon ;)
  353.  <Wxll> @floater you can't sue someone for having a frozen bank account…
  354.  * wwww has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  355.  * bafin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  356.  <TAiS46> floater: the german bank account it canceled by the bank without reason! and there is a low limit for online transactions. it was only a backup bank account where i can access 2.5 million EUR. i will use them to withdraw EUR if the bzwbk bank account will stay frozen! but I must clear this things with my lawyer and how to do it
  357.  <TAiS46> zewelor: they will be canceled and are restored.
  358.  <zewelor> not good :(
  359.  * tronic1704 (bcae5dbc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.174.93.188) has joined #bitcoin24
  360.  <PeehsNoic> tais46: one last question than i'm totally statisfied ;) Why did you prefered to release informations ons reddit instead of your website? i wasn't really sure if it was the real tais posting there because so many people tried to fake you/btc24 in the last few days.
  361.  * wwww (d4fd9f35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.253.159.53) has joined #bitcoin24
  362.  * nacer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  363.  * M3n70r_ (542abe9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.42.190.155) has joined #bitcoin24
  364.  <godzilla123> <@TAiS46> zewelor: they will be canceled and are restored.
  365.  * phlogiston (4da7b59f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.167.181.159) has joined #bitcoin24
  366.  <godzilla123> Actually this is a bit unclear
  367.  <EwwSup> TAiS46: how far back in time transactions are reset?
  368.  <worriedGuy> tais46 yes, peehsNoice has a good point there. You should put a link on your website to the reddit-posts so everyone sees them
  369.  <guidebook> TAiS46: I received a SEPA withdrawal confirmation email on April 4 but I haven't received the money. Is the money safe?
  370.  <Casimir1904> he canceld the wrong orders and the amounts before restored
  371.  <TAiS46> worriedGuy: i know about the coding ;) but i have now some one, who will code for me :) all is fine now with the code
  372.  <godzilla123> basically this means all transactions are cancelled or only the extra ones
  373.  <galge> Peesh: +1
  374.  <phlogiston> If you solve the problems, you have gained an epic amount of trust. I think bitcoin-24 2.0 will succeed.
  375.  <wwww> Don't allow BTC to be withdrawn before EUR account is free!! It's possible that this whole mess is created by some 'bad people' who have BTC in the account in the first place. Why people with legit EUR have to pay for this?
  376.  <DontTrustThisMan> Sjors: Would be nice to know who exactly is behind this and why. Criminal investigation because of compromised bank accounts/money laundering or BaFin because of missing license.
  377.  <TAiS46> PeehsNoic: i think that in reddit and irc are the most people. you can see my english is not the best. i am waiting for a good text / statement from some english speaking guy to publish it on the site!
  378.  * Flaz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  379.  <c0rw1n> DontTrustThisMan: no matter which this is megaupload all over again
  380.  <godzilla123> Casimir1904:say someone had 10 btc, and he traded 5 and was supposed to get 200 Euros, but got 800 instead
  381.  <TAiS46> EwwSup: my programmer does it, i does not check it, but i think he only restored the double made trades
  382.  * yoast has quit (Quit: yoast)
  383.  <Casimir1904> godzilla123, when did i say that?
  384.  * M3n70r has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  385.  * wwww_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  386.  * Guest015235 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  387.  <godzilla123> Casimir1904 does this mean balance will be rolled back to 10 BTC or 5 btc and 200 euros
  388.  <TAiS46> guidebook: the money is safe and I know wich transactions are not leaving the bank account! they will be reset!
  389.  <galge> TAiS46: Great stuff. I agree that a statement on the website should be well written.
  390.  <Casimir1904> funny so much people say that i said things i never said...
  391.  * asss_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  392.  <worriedGuy> Tais46 just put something like "For more recent information please also read my reddit-posts where I try to keep everyone updated as often as possible <insert link here>"
  393.  * btc24user (4d0ce7e5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.12.231.229) has joined #bitcoin24
  394.  <godzilla123> <@Casimir1904> he canceld the wrong orders and the amounts before restored
  395.  <TAiS46> worriedGuy: ok thx will do it
  396.  * srac has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  397.  * phlogiston_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  398.  <Sjors> DontTrustThisMan: he said on Reddit earlier that it was because of a suspicion of criminal activity because he was getting money from bank accounts associated with criminals
  399.  <stackofcats> TAiS46, maybe you can find someone close to you who can help you maintaining contact to your users via twitter or sth to keep the people from panicking ;)
  400.  <phlogiston> Casimir1904 they read poorly I think
  401.  <godzilla123> Casimir1904 Im asking you since you seem to understand the rollback
  402.  * martin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  403.  <ikbenwouter> yes some PR help and maybe some IRC moderators would be great
  404.  <Wxll> Casimir1904:  d:) prob tried the new BTCsmartShop Mushrooms before they read your words LOL
  405.  * srac (d5abc44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.171.196.75) has joined #bitcoin24
  406.  <c0rw1n> there's this post : http://kuttler.eu/post/what-happened-bitcoin24/
  407.  * asss (3eb2fb1e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.178.251.30) has joined #bitcoin24
  408.  <Casimir1904> just tried to make more clear what TAiS46 said in my understanding from his german to english translation
  409.  * olympico (~olympico@unaffiliated/olympico) has left #bitcoin24
  410.  <godzilla123> Casimir1904 exactly and im trying to clarify what you meant
  411.  <flyingkiwiguy> so what you would need are some German / English speakers
  412.  * anarchy5 (~anarchy5@unaffiliated/anarchy5) has joined #bitcoin24
  413.  * anarchy5 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  414.  * hias (~hias@chello080108037199.5.11.vie.surfer.at) has joined #bitcoin24
  415.  <phlogiston> ikbenwouter + 1 IRC moderation
  416.  <worriedGuy> Tais46 maybe it would also be good to post all important updates in german AND english.. then someone could do a better translation later on ;)
  417.  * anarchy5 (~anarchy5@unaffiliated/anarchy5) has joined #bitcoin24
  418.  <godzilla123> no sense in asking TAiS46 again and again. Let him answer other questions
  419.  * anarchy5 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  420.  <wwww> Letting people withdraw BTC before knowing exact reason EUR account is frozen is just wrong...
  421.  <worriedGuy> tais i think some of your posts are pretty confusing due to language problems
  422.  * anarchy5 (~anarchy5@unaffiliated/anarchy5) has joined #bitcoin24
  423.  <worriedGuy> wwww let me guess, you've got EUR on the site, right?
  424.  * anarchy5 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  425.  <Casimir1904> ikbenwouter, i got now +o here and i will give +o to some users i trust later...
  426.  <M3n70r_> @TAiS46 are EUR/SEPA deposits made after shutdown to german account safe? i`ve sent some, did not recieve any message confirming, service is down...any info appreciated. thx
  427.  <Wxll> Casimir1904: thats good news
  428.  <ikbenwouter> Casimir1904, yes very nice
  429.  <wwww> yea i have like 7.5k euro and i dont wana lose that because some illegal people bought BTC and its not my fault
  430.  <Casimir1904> wwww, <TAiS46> guidebook: the money is safe and I know wich transactions are not leaving the bank account! they will be reset!
  431.  <worriedGuy> wwww so, who should loose them?
  432.  * soaker (4d048142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.4.129.66) has joined #bitcoin24
  433.  * anarchy5 (~anarchy5@unaffiliated/anarchy5) has joined #bitcoin24
  434.  * anarchy5 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  435.  <davidoz_> nor is it simons fault...
  436.  <Wxll> Now we can untroll the main channel as well :-D
  437.  <floater> wwww: I have 15k and the same here. I think everyone should share the intermitent loss. When the 3 months is up than full solution
  438.  <wwww> if he cant identify who the illegal people are, then should be shared among everyone
  439.  <floater> It is not fair to leave half of the user base in cold
  440.  <Casimir1904> i can forward the order again to this one also :-)
  441.  <godzilla123> TAiS46 and you got to be a bit polite in what you say on facebook, twitter
  442.  <davidoz_> how would u do that...
  443.  <DontTrustThisMan> Sjors: Thanks. Consensus on forum.bitcoin.de however is that he needs a license for what he's doing. His legal troubles might not be over.
  444.  * yayalama (2e15631a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.21.99.26) has joined #bitcoin24
  445.  <godzilla123> TAiS46 even if its government we are talking about
  446.  <worriedGuy> wwww ok, so you're willing to participate in the loss? then im completly with you :)
  447.  <davidoz_> and what about people with btc AND Euro like me?
  448.  <galge> TAiS46: Great info. Good luck with your lawyer nightmare and good night!
  449.  <TAiS46> M3n70r_: deposits are clear. after we are online again, the funds will be added to the user accounts
  450.  * amyntor has quit (Quit: Thanks a lot for coming here and answering questions TAiS!)
  451.  <wwww> yea ofc i will participate, equal % loss for everyone
  452.  <Sjors> TAiS46, DontTrustThisMan: my most pressing question: for how much money can TAiS46 sue the German government for closing his accounts, keeping him out of doing business for a week, without even asking him once?
  453.  <worriedGuy> tais46 so i think you should really consider to let everyone particpate in the losses, not only the people in EUR
  454.  <davidoz_> he cant sue german goverment for anything.
  455.  <Sjors> why wouldn't he?
  456.  <wwww> its possible Polish bank will get even more angry because you release the BTC of the criminals!
  457.  <Casimir1904> to sue the goverment will cost much time and money, not sure i would to that when i was him...
  458.  <worriedGuy> Sjors i guess he can sue them for any ammount he sees fit. But im 99% sure he will loose
  459.  <TAiS46> Sjors: good question, I will see it, after the bank account is open again and my lawyer will tell it to me ;)
  460.  <ikbenwouter> worriedGuy, you are jumping to conclusions, so far the money is not gone yet, he is still in the process of recovering the bank accounts
  461.  <Sjors> well
  462.  <EwwSup> worriedGuy: i'm in full euro and i still don't think that's a good idea
  463.  <godzilla123> I would sugggest to let people get their BTC out asap, before this problem worsens, since there are currently no government orders to freeze btc
  464.  <Sjors> it _seems_ to be quite clear the german government is doing something way out of legal bounds here
  465.  <godzilla123> do it before it happens
  466.  <floater> @TAIS: Can we get an official confiramation at least in email that how much are Frozen EUR balance is? Than we could sue the bank one by one...
  467.  <godzilla123> then take care of Eur separately
  468.  <godzilla123> independently
  469.  <Sjors> they can't just pull the plug on a legal business on the basis of some suspicion
  470.  <godzilla123> I have both btc and eur
  471.  <davidoz_> makes sense.
  472.  <Sjors> yes, suing will cost money
  473.  <davidoz_> me too
  474.  <PeehsNoic> @Tais46 kann ich verstehen ;) Ich glaube du kannst auch deutsch schreiben und es würde irgendjemand übersetzen. Denk bitte dran den "fremdcode" auf hintertüren zu prüfen.. es gab schon einmal einen zwischenfall mit fremdcode. btw falls du probleme mit der datenbank bekommst kannst du mir ne nachricht schicken (CoinSheep @ reddit) ich hab im beruf tägl. mit datenbanken mit >10mill. rows zu tun. nur ein angebot ;)
  475.  <Sjors> but it seems like he's on the right side of the law
  476.  <TAiS46> floater: on the polish bank account are still 3.5 million eur frozen
  477.  <Casimir1904> case is open and about 33% is accessable so even when it get closed he could make a rule to allow max 33% withdraw or something like that for 3 months..
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