Rain Council Discussion

[16:56] <@DTC> ok so let's discuss rain
[16:56] <+Djangoo> rain is just as bad imo
[16:57] <@DTC> Rain doesn't have 2 types that abuse it
[16:57] <+Luck> what abusers are there
[16:57] <+Luck> rain abusers
[16:57] <+Luck> seismitoad
[16:57] <+cbb> gorebyss, ludicolo
[16:57] <+Luck> ludi
[16:57] <+Luck> then?
[16:57] <+cbb> gorebyss is
[16:57] <+cbb> huge
[16:57] <+cbb> js
[16:57] <+Luck> oh gorebyss
[16:57] <+Djangoo> possibly worse because of STAB boost + speed on the same mon
[16:57] <+Luck> yeah
[16:57] <+Luck> umh
[16:57] <+Luck> luvdisc
[16:57] <@DTC> However, they get both stab boost + speed boost
[16:57] <+Djangoo> and yeah gorebyss in rain is holy shit borked
[16:57] <+cbb> the most reliable form of killing gorebyss is RK'ing it
[16:57] <+cbb> which is impossible at +2 in rain
[16:57] <@DTC> it's really hard to get gorebyss to +2 in the rain
[16:57] <@DTC> however, it doesn't even need to set-up
[16:57] <@DTC> it's still insane
[16:57] <+cbb> that too
[16:57] <+cbb> those surfs are
[16:57] <+cbb> really fucking strong
[16:58] <+cbb> especially if you run LO
[16:58] <@DTC> What about Ludicolo?
[16:58] <@DTC> It's very strong as well
[16:58] <+cbb> yes
[16:58] <+Keiran> You guys forget that Bibarel exists
[16:58] <@DTC> And it even has an additional stab in Giga Drain
09[16:58] * Keiran was kicked by DTC (DTC)
[16:58] <+cbb> its also faster outspeeding stuff such as scarf sawk
12[16:58] * Keiran (Mibbit@69B95DBA.25DA29B3.88A27BDB.IP) has joined #nucouncil
[16:58] <+cbb> which is really useful
[16:58] <+shnen> rain is great
15[16:58] * DTC sets mode: +v Keiran
[16:58] <+shnen> seismitoed/ludicolo/gorebyss/jynx/floatzel
[16:58] <+Keiran> It counters non-lo gorebyss x_x
[16:58] <+shnen> are the best abusers
[16:58] <+cbb> the problem is that the most common special "walls" all die to rain
[16:59] <+Djangoo> Ludicolo is amazing in rain
[16:59] <+cbb> cryogonal is 2hko'd by LO HPump, flareon and altaria don't stand a chance at all
[16:59] <@DTC> I like how the rain abusers aren't so dependant on rain
[16:59] <@DTC> Like Victreebell and Exeggutor struggle outside of the sun
[16:59] <+shnen> I've actually had more success with gorebyss
[16:59] <+shnen> than ludicolo
[16:59] <@DTC> (non specs eggy)
[16:59] <+Djangoo> Ludicolo is a great stand alone sweeper too
[16:59] <@DTC> especially since a lot of the grass-types use solarbeam > giga drain
[16:59] <@DTC> yeah that too
[16:59] <+Keiran> i havent used ludicolo in rain
[16:59] <+Keiran> only out of rain
[16:59] <+shnen> I did at the start of the round
[16:59] <@DTC> you're missing out man
[17:00] <+Keiran> its still great
[17:00] <+shnen> I used illumise+volbeat+ 4 swswers
[17:00] <+Djangoo> stop using that shit shnen
[17:00] <+shnen> it was ten times better than my sun team like that
[17:00] <+shnen> it was good
[17:00] <@DTC> Seismitoad is crazy
[17:00] <+shnen> I got like #5 with it last round
[17:00] <+Luck> seismitoad is amazing
[17:00] <+shnen> with jynx over ludi
[17:00] <@DTC> http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464969
[17:00] <+Luck> amazing bulk
[17:00] <+Luck> good dual stab
[17:00] <@DTC> discuss what makes rain so strong
[17:00] <@DTC> !
[17:00] <+cbb> seismitoad is surprisingly underrated
[17:00] <+shnen> yeah seismitoed is the best
[17:00] <+shnen> also is it bad that because of politoed
[17:00] <@DTC> post in the rain and sun threads when you can, guys
[17:01] <@DTC> like what makes them really strong etc
[17:01] <+shnen> I always call it seismitoed
[17:01] <+Keiran> water-types stab basically doubled
[17:01] <+shnen> instead of toad
[17:01] <+Keiran> !
[17:01] <@DTC> specs basculin anyone
[17:01] <@DTC> ???
[17:01] <+cbb> seismitoed
[17:01] <+cbb> !
[17:01] <+shnen> besides Gorrebyss (who really needs a smash to be a huge threat) all of the swift-swimmers lack power.
[17:01] <+Djangoo> yeah water stab + speed is the killer
[17:01] <+shnen> I really don't agree with this statement
[17:01] <+cbb> it doesn't
[17:01] <+cbb> _need_ smash
[17:01] <@DTC> eh, you'd probably want to use band for aqua jet
[17:01] <+Djangoo> lacking power
[17:01] <+Djangoo> what
[17:01] <+cbb> its stronger than ludicolo by a LONG shot
[17:01] <+cbb> lol
[17:01] <+shnen> yeah
[17:01] <+cbb> and I mean
[17:01] <+cbb> LONG
[17:01] <+cbb> pstats, Gorebyss
[17:01] <+pstats> Gorebyss [Water] Swift Swim/Hydration (DW) | 55/84/105/114/75/52 | NU | GK/LK: 40 BP
[17:01] <+cbb> pstats, Ludicolo
[17:01] <+shnen> also
[17:01] <+pstats> Ludicolo [Water/Grass] Swift Swim/Rain Dish/Own Tempo (DW) | 80/70/70/90/100/70 | NU | GK/LK: 80 BP
[17:01] <+shnen> Floatzel
[17:02] <+cbb> lol 24 points
[17:02] <+shnen> is so good
[17:02] <+shnen> even better in this meta
[17:02] <+cbb> oh right floatzel exists
[17:02] <+shnen> what with the influx
[17:02] <+shnen> of altaria
[17:02] <+shnen> flareon
[17:02] <+shnen> cryp
[17:02] <+cbb> physical rain abusers are such a rare kind in NU
[17:02] <+shnen> cryo
[17:02] <+shnen> regirock
[17:02] <+shnen> etc
[17:02] <+shnen> no
[17:02] <+shnen> run mix floatzel
[17:02] <+cbb> or, well, mixed
[17:02] <+cbb> I know
[17:02] <+shnen> that is such a good set
[17:02] <+cbb> but physical as in
[17:02] <+cbb> its main attack is physical
[17:02] <+shnen> you only need 16 speed to outspeed everything
[17:02] <@DTC> ok so
[17:02] <+cbb> the only special attack is ice beam no?
[17:02] <+shnen> hp grass
[17:02] <@DTC> this is what we got from this council meeting: