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  1. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 16 19:13:49 2012
  2.  
  3. Jul 16 19:13:49 * Now talking on #rpcdesktop
  4. Jul 16 19:13:57 <tboat> timg let me get op real quick
  5. Jul 16 19:13:57 * timg gives channel operator status to thearrowflies
  6. Jul 16 19:14:01 * timg gives channel operator status to tboat
  7. Jul 16 19:14:30 * ArrowBot (~ArrowBot@209-6-41-37.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
  8. Jul 16 19:14:39 * timg gives channel operator status to ArrowBot
  9. Jul 16 19:14:42 * gabe1118 (43bdcc35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.189.204.53) has joined #rpcdesktop
  10. Jul 16 19:15:11 * baffler (~kvirc@76.72.202.67) has joined #rpcdesktop
  11. Jul 16 19:15:13 <tboat> .list
  12. Jul 16 19:15:13 <ArrowBot> tboat: Admin, Alias, Anonymous, AutoMode, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, Dict, Games, Google, Internet, Later, Math, Misc, Network, News, NickCapture, Note, Owner, Plugin, Reply, ShrinkUrl, Status, String, Time, User, Utilities, and Web
  13. Jul 16 19:15:30 * Fast_Absorbing (~chatzilla@cpc2-cmbg12-0-0-cust263.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
  14. Jul 16 19:15:33 * Filter_ (~Filtered@pool-72-91-72-84.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
  15. Jul 16 19:15:45 * Kennythehitman (~Kennytheh@66-169-149-117.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
  16. Jul 16 19:15:49 * centigrade233 (ad36801b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.54.128.27) has joined #rpcdesktop
  17. Jul 16 19:16:22 * FRodrigues (55f1af97@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.241.175.151) has joined #rpcdesktop
  18. Jul 16 19:16:32 * Rubicks (~Nick@cpe-75-185-78-15.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
  19. Jul 16 19:16:43 * pulse40 (~pulse40@c-98-198-237-163.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
  20. Jul 16 19:17:13 <SlimTim10> so how many people here want the desktop project to be in Python?
  21. Jul 16 19:17:24 <tboat> ****If you left #rProgCollab, rejoin, you should always be in that channel if you are in the others, think of it as the main, these as party chats
  22. Jul 16 19:17:30 * DrosophiliaMaxim (c01160d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.17.96.208) has joined #rpcdesktop
  23. Jul 16 19:17:39 <calzone21> yes please
  24. Jul 16 19:17:51 <Rubicks> Python is still a screwy language to me haha, after doing so much C# I haven't really grown to like it
  25. Jul 16 19:18:03 <thearrowflies> i kinda wanted it to be java/c#
  26. Jul 16 19:18:07 <centigrade233> I only know python, so...
  27. Jul 16 19:18:09 <baffler> I'm wanting C#
  28. Jul 16 19:18:12 <thearrowflies> but python works if thats what everyone wants
  29. Jul 16 19:18:14 <Filter_> C++
  30. Jul 16 19:18:18 <Filter_> ?
  31. Jul 16 19:18:20 <thearrowflies> or c++
  32. Jul 16 19:18:22 * TheDuceCat (~TheDuceCa@pool-108-14-103-48.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
  33. Jul 16 19:18:28 <gabe1118> java would be nice
  34. Jul 16 19:18:37 <Babelius> lolcode
  35. Jul 16 19:18:40 <neTTos> I think C# is not cross platform and would be difficult
  36. Jul 16 19:18:40 <miyako> I think that we should havee the initial part of this discussion in the main channel, and work out details here afterwards if we can't acheive a consensus there
  37. Jul 16 19:18:41 <G14> who is the project leader for this one?
  38. Jul 16 19:18:43 <thearrowflies> main channel for now
  39. Jul 16 19:18:45 <FRodrigues> tboat: set that as topic
  40. Jul 16 19:18:45 <Rubicks> Psh memory management is a thing of the past, if this is a desktop app I don't see the need to do C++
  41. Jul 16 19:18:45 <TheDuceCat> +1 babelius
  42. Jul 16 19:18:55 * Marshall_H (~marshall@wireless-184-12-12-79.dr02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
  43. Jul 16 19:19:01 <neTTos> But first we should figure out the project idea
  44. Jul 16 19:19:01 <SlimTim10> the project leader has not yet been decided
  45. Jul 16 19:19:05 <SlimTim10> it depends on the project
  46. Jul 16 19:19:13 <thearrowflies> duce is leader
  47. Jul 16 19:19:17 <TheDuceCat> me and miyako
  48. Jul 16 19:19:21 <timg> SlimTim10 is a leader of some kind
  49. Jul 16 19:19:23 <SlimTim10> I can lead a project in C, Python, Perl, PHP, or Scheme
  50. Jul 16 19:19:28 <timg> I already forget which
  51. Jul 16 19:19:34 <TheDuceCat> tboat already announced leaders
  52. Jul 16 19:19:38 <SlimTim10> not in C#, C++, or Java
  53. Jul 16 19:19:42 <SlimTim10> so we may need two projects
  54. Jul 16 19:19:45 * Rosur (Rosur@oceanware.plus.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
  55. Jul 16 19:20:03 <Fast_Absorbing> I also like python
  56. Jul 16 19:20:08 <TheDuceCat> py is nice
  57. Jul 16 19:20:09 <Rubicks> SlimTim10 if you know all of those, C# and Java should be easy to pick up
  58. Jul 16 19:20:21 <SlimTim10> I didn't say I couldn't pick them up/don't know them
  59. Jul 16 19:20:21 <TheDuceCat> C# is great but mainly windows only
  60. Jul 16 19:20:25 <SlimTim10> I will not lead a project in either
  61. Jul 16 19:20:33 <baffler> mono?
  62. Jul 16 19:21:07 <Rosur> know some pyhton
  63. Jul 16 19:21:21 <TheDuceCat> mono is cross platform .net
  64. Jul 16 19:22:53 <Fast_Absorbing> Let's count how many want python? it seems to be a majority
  65. Jul 16 19:23:12 <Marshall_H> aye for python
  66. Jul 16 19:23:34 <Fast_Absorbing> aye from me too
  67. Jul 16 19:23:47 <calzone21> python!
  68. Jul 16 19:24:02 <TheDuceCat> python is nice but for bigger gui projects im not sure
  69. Jul 16 19:24:13 <thearrowflies> if python wins then ill go python
  70. Jul 16 19:24:16 <SlimTim10> the first project is supposed to be a small one
  71. Jul 16 19:24:17 <thearrowflies> but im voting for other langs
  72. Jul 16 19:24:28 <TheDuceCat> how small we talking here
  73. Jul 16 19:24:34 <Rosur> python i vote for as can at least follow along with that
  74. Jul 16 19:24:41 * Bradford (~Bradford@c-24-7-159-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
  75. Jul 16 19:24:41 <Rubicks> Let's stick with the main channel for now, so we don't miss everything there. But I agree with thearrowflies and TheDuceCat, I see trouble with bigger projects
  76. Jul 16 19:24:41 <Marshall_H> python doesnt have bad gui, but C++ would be my secondary, although I already know C++ I still would love to learn more.
  77. Jul 16 19:24:45 * intothev01d (~intothev0@8.27.217.75) has joined #rpcdesktop
  78. Jul 16 19:24:46 <centigrade233> smaller than a breadbox
  79. Jul 16 19:25:20 <SlimTim10> not all projects have a GUI
  80. Jul 16 19:25:24 <SlimTim10> and the first one should not
  81. Jul 16 19:25:25 <TheDuceCat> true
  82. Jul 16 19:25:32 <TheDuceCat> depends on the task
  83. Jul 16 19:25:39 <BrotherGA2> python is all I know... so...
  84. Jul 16 19:25:40 <TheDuceCat> some tasks are a pain without a gui some aren't
  85. Jul 16 19:25:49 <SlimTim10> the idea here is to learn programming
  86. Jul 16 19:25:54 <SlimTim10> narrowing it down to one language is enough
  87. Jul 16 19:25:59 <Rubicks> It's about getting a decent number of experienced programmers something to do... not just finish something quickly. I don't want to write something htat I could personally write in a week
  88. Jul 16 19:26:00 <SlimTim10> narrowing it down to GUI programming is a bit too much
  89. Jul 16 19:26:11 <Rubicks> and then to mentor the weaker ones
  90. Jul 16 19:26:18 <thearrowflies> gui programming in java is really easy
  91. Jul 16 19:26:18 <DrosophiliaMaxim> second python
  92. Jul 16 19:26:20 <TheDuceCat> GUI only opens doors it doesn't close any
  93. Jul 16 19:26:23 <DrosophiliaMaxim> and java
  94. Jul 16 19:26:30 <SlimTim10> if it's a project you could write in a week, you probably don't need to be here :P
  95. Jul 16 19:26:44 <SlimTim10> GUI in itself is a door to first be opened
  96. Jul 16 19:26:50 <SlimTim10> many people here are very new to programming
  97. Jul 16 19:27:01 <SlimTim10> jumping straight to GUI programming would be too much of a leap
  98. Jul 16 19:27:14 <Rubicks> SlimTim10 I'm here to help out and enjoy some collaboration :D I'll probably take more of a mentoring job then actually spitting out coe
  99. Jul 16 19:27:16 <Rubicks> code*
  100. Jul 16 19:27:17 <TheDuceCat> but what could we make that is small but expansive enough for a lot of people
  101. Jul 16 19:27:32 <SlimTim10> that's good, Rubicks
  102. Jul 16 19:27:40 <thearrowflies> a person doesnt necesarily have to work on every aspect of something
  103. Jul 16 19:27:45 <thearrowflies> someone could work on only networkking
  104. Jul 16 19:27:47 <thearrowflies> someone else on gui
  105. Jul 16 19:27:59 <TheDuceCat> exactly
  106. Jul 16 19:28:06 <SlimTim10> now you're talking about a large project
  107. Jul 16 19:28:10 <Marshall_H> I enjoy network programming.
  108. Jul 16 19:28:18 <TheDuceCat> you can't have 30 people working on a small project
  109. Jul 16 19:28:24 <TheDuceCat> there's not enough to do
  110. Jul 16 19:28:27 <TheDuceCat> people will be left out
  111. Jul 16 19:28:29 <TheDuceCat> it's not fair
  112. Jul 16 19:28:31 <SlimTim10> it depends on the project
  113. Jul 16 19:28:36 <thearrowflies> we have 26 people in here, if we add a gui, that would involve more people in different things
  114. Jul 16 19:28:42 <SlimTim10> it could be a highly expansive project that doesn't integrate GUI and network programming
  115. Jul 16 19:28:45 <intothev01d> wasn't that the idea of smaller projects in various languages?
  116. Jul 16 19:28:47 <Fast_Absorbing> thearrowflies: why not both?
  117. Jul 16 19:28:54 <SlimTim10> for example, an IRC bot
  118. Jul 16 19:28:59 <SlimTim10> many commands could be implemented
  119. Jul 16 19:29:04 <TheDuceCat> GUI possible
  120. Jul 16 19:29:04 <gabe1118> or an irc client
  121. Jul 16 19:29:05 <SlimTim10> each person could write a new command
  122. Jul 16 19:29:13 <thearrowflies> it can be both
  123. Jul 16 19:29:13 <SlimTim10> but nobody has to write GUI or network programming
  124. Jul 16 19:29:18 <SlimTim10> just as an example
  125. Jul 16 19:29:32 <Rubicks> Yeah, networking is a pretty big task
  126. Jul 16 19:29:43 <Marshall_H> I enjoy networking programming, to me it has the highest reward
  127. Jul 16 19:29:44 <SlimTim10> multiple projects is a good idea
  128. Jul 16 19:29:46 <miyako> one of my areas of expertise is in network programming
  129. Jul 16 19:29:46 <Rubicks> network programming can lead to tons of issues that inexperienced folks would have a hard time doing
  130. Jul 16 19:29:49 <SlimTim10> I'm only talking about the Python project
  131. Jul 16 19:29:55 <Rubicks> But yeah, it's awesome stuff :D
  132. Jul 16 19:30:00 <calzone21> sorry if it has been stated already but the desktop application we're building is going to be windows-based?
  133. Jul 16 19:30:10 <TheDuceCat> hopefully cros splatform
  134. Jul 16 19:30:11 <SlimTim10> calzone21, no
  135. Jul 16 19:30:24 <SlimTim10> we are deciding on a Python project that is cross-platform
  136. Jul 16 19:30:50 <timg> sweet
  137. Jul 16 19:30:50 <calzone21> ah alright, thanks for the clarification!
  138. Jul 16 19:30:55 <miyako> by the way, I've not been following this discussion all that closely because I'm trying to keep up in the main meeting- should we try to hold off on these discussions a bit until we can bring them up there?
  139. Jul 16 19:30:57 <thearrowflies> so then c++ is out
  140. Jul 16 19:31:07 <TheDuceCat> don't talk languages yet
  141. Jul 16 19:31:07 <thearrowflies> because it would be hard to manage things for different os's
  142. Jul 16 19:31:16 <SlimTim10> thearrowflies, C++ is not out
  143. Jul 16 19:31:20 <TheDuceCat> don't even think about language until you have a proper problem solution in mind
  144. Jul 16 19:31:25 <thearrowflies> ok
  145. Jul 16 19:31:28 <SlimTim10> like I said, I'm just talking about one project
  146. Jul 16 19:31:39 <SlimTim10> if someone else wants to lead a C++ project, I'm sure a few people here would like it
  147. Jul 16 19:32:04 <SlimTim10> TheDuceCat, the language is more important than the problem solution right now
  148. Jul 16 19:32:09 <Babelius> TheDuceCat is right, determine the problem before determining the language
  149. Jul 16 19:32:16 <SlimTim10> I disagree
  150. Jul 16 19:32:17 <miyako> I don't see any reason that we couldn't use multiple languages for the final solution if that is the most reaonable approach the solving the problem
  151. Jul 16 19:32:22 <TheDuceCat> Language is not important right now.
  152. Jul 16 19:32:34 * Accipiter (~Accipiter@96.18.31.36) has joined #rpcdesktop
  153. Jul 16 19:32:35 <miyako> +1 TheDuceCat
  154. Jul 16 19:32:37 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat the problem is definitely much more important than the language
  155. Jul 16 19:32:44 <Rubicks> +1 TheDuceCat
  156. Jul 16 19:32:45 <intothev01d> what is the problem?
  157. Jul 16 19:32:49 <TheDuceCat> none yet
  158. Jul 16 19:32:50 <Fast_Absorbing> Okay, so lets pick a problem
  159. Jul 16 19:32:54 <intothev01d> lol
  160. Jul 16 19:32:56 <miyako> we should be moving on to that in the main meeting soon
  161. Jul 16 19:33:00 <TheDuceCat> let's wait for main chat to be over
  162. Jul 16 19:33:04 <TheDuceCat> i can't focus on two at once
  163. Jul 16 19:33:13 <Rubicks> Haha true, I'm back and forth and back and forth
  164. Jul 16 19:35:55 <neTTos> Yeah does anyone have ideas for projects?
  165. Jul 16 19:36:12 <neTTos> Not languages
  166. Jul 16 19:36:14 <TheDuceCat> not atm
  167. Jul 16 19:36:14 * suck_my_username (suck_my_us@216-58-78-29.cpe.distributel.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
  168. Jul 16 19:36:17 <miyako> I have a couple of vauge ideas to bring up
  169. Jul 16 19:36:25 <miyako> but they'll need fleshing out if we go with any of them
  170. Jul 16 19:36:25 <suck_my_username> hey guys
  171. Jul 16 19:36:31 <SlimTim10> miyako, please bring them up
  172. Jul 16 19:36:40 <SlimTim10> this is a meeting, so ideas are welcome
  173. Jul 16 19:36:43 <gabe1118> i was thinking an irc client
  174. Jul 16 19:37:15 <suck_my_username> IDEA: A torrent client that directly searches TPB
  175. Jul 16 19:37:16 <Babelius> I'll bring it up here again: a web server
  176. Jul 16 19:37:31 <miyako> SlimTim10: I'm having trouble keeping track of both chats is why I'm focusing on trying to keep everything in one meeting, but so we can start thinking about it:
  177. Jul 16 19:37:53 <BrotherGA2> suck_my_username: that will be difficult for those of us where it's blocked (like me)
  178. Jul 16 19:37:58 <thearrowflies> i made something that scrapes tpb's rss at mightngiht and download the file
  179. Jul 16 19:37:59 <suck_my_username> UK?
  180. Jul 16 19:38:12 <BrotherGA2> Italy
  181. Jul 16 19:38:17 <miyako> an application that lets people upload photos with geotagging and generates composite images of areas based on the uploaded photos
  182. Jul 16 19:38:23 <suck_my_username> thearrowflies: cool
  183. Jul 16 19:38:26 <G14> yeah this discussion is supposed to come after main one splits off - can we hold off here so people dont get left out
  184. Jul 16 19:38:35 <suck_my_username> thearrowflies: u already got some experience with this then :D
  185. Jul 16 19:38:38 <timg> miyako: sounds pretty cool.. and complex
  186. Jul 16 19:38:42 <suck_my_username> BrotherGA2: suck bro
  187. Jul 16 19:38:49 <suck_my_username> BrotherGA2: that sucks bro*
  188. Jul 16 19:38:49 <BrotherGA2> +1 G14
  189. Jul 16 19:39:02 <timg> G14: i believe main one has or is in the middle of splitting off
  190. Jul 16 19:39:10 <miyako> an application to do image enhancement
  191. Jul 16 19:39:11 <thearrowflies> guys
  192. Jul 16 19:39:15 <miyako> a distributed raytracer
  193. Jul 16 19:39:15 <thearrowflies> lets move to the other chat
  194. Jul 16 19:39:23 <miyako> I think an IRC client is a reasonable project
  195. Jul 16 19:39:23 <suck_my_username> which one?
  196. Jul 16 19:39:25 <BrotherGA2> suck_my_username: aye, there are good proxies, but it's still a bit of a hassle sometimes
  197. Jul 16 19:39:25 <G14> timg: we are barely moving on to the desktop part in the main ones - still hasnt split off
  198. Jul 16 19:39:26 <thearrowflies> lets talk there first, then here about specifics
  199. Jul 16 19:39:29 <thearrowflies> collab
  200. Jul 16 19:39:32 <tboat> could someone from here redirect what you have been talking about to the main chat please
  201. Jul 16 19:39:35 * nitrosage (~Ismail@24-52-217-40.cable.teksavvy.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
  202. Jul 16 19:39:46 <miyako> okay guys, let's move this to the main chat
  203. Jul 16 19:40:26 <SlimTim10> who likes the idea of an IRC client as a project?
  204. Jul 16 19:40:31 <SlimTim10> +1 from me
  205. Jul 16 19:40:35 <TheDuceCat> let's stay patient here
  206. Jul 16 19:40:40 <TheDuceCat> wait until main discussion dies down
  207. Jul 16 19:40:44 <intothev01d> +1 +1
  208. Jul 16 19:40:53 <intothev01d> that is + 2
  209. Jul 16 19:41:03 <TheDuceCat> i thought it was fish
  210. Jul 16 19:41:07 <TheDuceCat> 2 + 2 is fish
  211. Jul 16 19:41:15 <TheDuceCat> :)
  212. Jul 16 19:41:50 <tboat> red fish blue fish?
  213. Jul 16 19:41:56 <miyako> We also can look at what type of problem we want to solve: Make something that fills a need; Make something with a focus on low level programming; Make something to focus on CS concepts
  214. Jul 16 19:41:56 <TheDuceCat> sure!
  215. Jul 16 19:44:07 <FRodrigues> in my first year of college in only learned low lvl languages (except prolog) :S
  216. Jul 16 19:44:17 <FRodrigues> I*
  217. Jul 16 19:45:00 <gabe1118> right now my trial for xchat and mirc have expired so i need an irc client
  218. Jul 16 19:45:11 <Marshall_H> ychat
  219. Jul 16 19:45:17 <Marshall_H> for windows
  220. Jul 16 19:45:23 <tboat> xhcat is free man
  221. Jul 16 19:45:29 <Marshall_H> n
  222. Jul 16 19:45:30 <Marshall_H> no
  223. Jul 16 19:45:33 <Marshall_H> costs money for windows
  224. Jul 16 19:45:35 <thearrowflies> no
  225. Jul 16 19:45:37 <thearrowflies> its free
  226. Jul 16 19:45:39 <Marshall_H> no
  227. Jul 16 19:45:41 <Marshall_H> its not
  228. Jul 16 19:45:42 <thearrowflies> get xchat-wdk
  229. Jul 16 19:45:42 <TheDuceCat> i have it it's free
  230. Jul 16 19:45:43 <thearrowflies> yes
  231. Jul 16 19:45:44 <thearrowflies> it is
  232. Jul 16 19:45:51 <tboat> xchat.org
  233. Jul 16 19:46:01 <Marshall_H> what the fuck
  234. Jul 16 19:46:07 <Marshall_H> did they make it free for windows?
  235. Jul 16 19:46:10 <Marshall_H> last time i checked it cost monye
  236. Jul 16 19:46:26 <Marshall_H> oh
  237. Jul 16 19:46:26 <Marshall_H> no
  238. Jul 16 19:46:27 <Marshall_H> http://xchat.org/windows/
  239. Jul 16 19:46:28 <Marshall_H> it costs money
  240. Jul 16 19:46:29 <ArrowBot> Title: XChat for Windows (at xchat.org)
  241. Jul 16 19:46:30 <Marshall_H> I was right
  242. Jul 16 19:46:32 <thearrowflies> no.
  243. Jul 16 19:46:34 <thearrowflies> because
  244. Jul 16 19:46:42 <thearrowflies> the official xchat ported to windows costs money
  245. Jul 16 19:46:43 <thearrowflies> but
  246. Jul 16 19:46:50 <thearrowflies> there are many unofficial builds
  247. Jul 16 19:46:58 <thearrowflies> that work just as good, or better
  248. Jul 16 19:46:59 <thearrowflies> that are free
  249. Jul 16 19:47:00 <Marshall_H> like ychat
  250. Jul 16 19:47:08 <thearrowflies> ychat is good
  251. Jul 16 19:47:14 <Marshall_H> yeah I said that
  252. Jul 16 19:49:24 <Rubicks> xchat is free?
  253. Jul 16 19:49:26 <Rubicks> yes
  254. Jul 16 19:49:47 * Accipiter has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  255. Jul 16 19:49:48 <Marshall_H> xchat for windows costs money; alternative is ychat; xchat for linux is free
  256. Jul 16 19:50:13 <Filter_> hexchat
  257. Jul 16 19:50:20 <Marshall_H> essentially all the same
  258. Jul 16 19:50:23 <Filter_> is the succesor to xchat 2
  259. Jul 16 19:50:26 <Filter_> i recommend it
  260. Jul 16 19:50:38 <Filter_> its open source
  261. Jul 16 19:51:03 <thearrowflies> i use xchat-wdk. the dev of hexchat hosted it on the same site
  262. Jul 16 19:51:06 <thearrowflies> no idea what happened to it
  263. Jul 16 19:51:22 <thearrowflies> .load Poll
  264. Jul 16 19:51:22 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
  265. Jul 16 19:58:25 <TheDuceCat> now i can focus
  266. Jul 16 19:58:30 <tboat> .load Poll
  267. Jul 16 19:58:30 <ArrowBot> tboat: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
  268. Jul 16 19:58:37 <thearrowflies> i tried loading it
  269. Jul 16 19:58:40 <thearrowflies> im getting an error
  270. Jul 16 19:58:42 <tboat> thearrowflies, try loading in main channel
  271. Jul 16 19:58:44 <Rubicks> Jeez that was complicated :D
  272. Jul 16 19:58:50 <miyako> can we set the topic to a summary of the project?
  273. Jul 16 19:58:58 <TheDuceCat> how do you set topic
  274. Jul 16 19:59:01 * Justin___ (47e1eccb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.225.236.203) has joined #rpcdesktop
  275. Jul 16 19:59:03 <TheDuceCat> are we op miyako?
  276. Jul 16 19:59:07 <thearrowflies> \/topic test
  277. Jul 16 19:59:08 <thearrowflies> oh
  278. Jul 16 19:59:09 <Rubicks> Why don't the leads get OP?
  279. Jul 16 19:59:10 <thearrowflies> let me do that
  280. Jul 16 19:59:11 <miyako> someone with OP will need to set it
  281. Jul 16 19:59:24 * thearrowflies gives channel operator status to TheDuceCat
  282. Jul 16 19:59:31 * thearrowflies gives channel operator status to miyako
  283. Jul 16 19:59:40 * TheDuceCat has changed the topic to: test
  284. Jul 16 19:59:45 <TheDuceCat> :D
  285. Jul 16 20:00:19 <TheDuceCat> miyako set it
  286. Jul 16 20:00:23 * miyako has changed the topic to: The Project Is: A Tile Based Map Editor (with Native GUIs and a very basic web UI capability) - Discuss implementation language(s) and other design decisions
  287. Jul 16 20:00:41 <TheDuceCat> we can make a game later to demo the map editor
  288. Jul 16 20:00:48 <thearrowflies> .admin capabilities add TheDuceCat auto-op
  289. Jul 16 20:00:48 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Error: The "Admin" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "capabilities" in it. Try "list Admin" to see the commands in the "Admin" plugin.
  290. Jul 16 20:01:09 <thearrowflies> .admin capability add TheDuceCat auto-op
  291. Jul 16 20:01:10 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Error: I can't find TheDuceCat in my user database. If you didn't give a user name, then I might not know what your user is, and you'll need to identify before this command might work.
  292. Jul 16 20:01:10 <Rubicks> I would like to steer clear of memory managed languages, so no C++ personally. THat is a lot to take in for a newbie
  293. Jul 16 20:01:11 <miyako> yeah, I'd like to have the ability to just print off maps so they can also be used for tabletop games
  294. Jul 16 20:01:26 <TheDuceCat> QT is great
  295. Jul 16 20:01:37 <Rubicks> i'd prefer something with a garbage collector or something akin to it
  296. Jul 16 20:01:38 <TheDuceCat> even though it's c++ it has a great library to make things much easier
  297. Jul 16 20:01:44 <TheDuceCat> okay
  298. Jul 16 20:01:47 <Rubicks> idk
  299. Jul 16 20:01:50 <TheDuceCat> C# with mono is a possibility
  300. Jul 16 20:01:52 <Rubicks> that's jsut me, we can discuss it
  301. Jul 16 20:01:54 <miyako> actually, I think first maybe we should talk about target platforms. Do we want to shoot for Win/OSX/Linux ?
  302. Jul 16 20:02:02 <TheDuceCat> cross plat
  303. Jul 16 20:02:03 <Rubicks> definitely at least Win
  304. Jul 16 20:02:04 <thearrowflies> TheDuceCat: miyako register with my bot. pm it and do user register name pass
  305. Jul 16 20:02:08 <Rubicks> but probably cross platformn
  306. Jul 16 20:02:30 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat: Yeah, we could use mono to use C#, a powerful language
  307. Jul 16 20:02:52 <TheDuceCat> i'm not so sure about mono though
  308. Jul 16 20:02:54 <Rubicks> the web group is using python, so idk if we want to steer clear of it, or use it because of that
  309. Jul 16 20:02:59 <Filter_> What exactly is a tile-based map editor and who can it help
  310. Jul 16 20:03:06 <TheDuceCat> python is nice but for a big project idk
  311. Jul 16 20:03:10 <BrotherGA2> Pref cross plat, but worst case scenario we should do linux, since anyone can VM that.
  312. Jul 16 20:03:10 <thearrowflies> .admin capability add TheDuceCat auto-op
  313. Jul 16 20:03:10 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: The operation succeeded.
  314. Jul 16 20:03:13 <TheDuceCat> http://tiled.org
  315. Jul 16 20:03:13 <thearrowflies> .admin capability add TheDuceCat op
  316. Jul 16 20:03:13 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: The operation succeeded.
  317. Jul 16 20:03:20 <thearrowflies> .admin capability add miyako op
  318. Jul 16 20:03:20 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: The operation succeeded.
  319. Jul 16 20:03:21 <TheDuceCat> wait
  320. Jul 16 20:03:24 <TheDuceCat> wrong link :(
  321. Jul 16 20:03:25 <thearrowflies> .admin capability add miyako auto-op
  322. Jul 16 20:03:26 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: The operation succeeded.
  323. Jul 16 20:03:28 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat I agree, just trying to make a smooth transition once the web project is finished, so we can mentor the newer programmers
  324. Jul 16 20:03:33 <TheDuceCat> http://www.mapeditor.org/
  325. Jul 16 20:03:33 <miyako> Filter_: that's a great question :) check out TheDuceCat's link, the use case would be for people who want to make maps either for games they make or for table top gaming
  326. Jul 16 20:03:34 <ArrowBot> Title: Tiled Map Editor (at www.mapeditor.org)
  327. Jul 16 20:03:39 <neTTos> Java :O
  328. Jul 16 20:03:51 <TheDuceCat> I've used Java
  329. Jul 16 20:03:57 <TheDuceCat> it's ok
  330. Jul 16 20:04:00 <TheDuceCat> tiled uses QT
  331. Jul 16 20:04:05 <Rubicks> Java has swing, which is a really simple and easy to learn GUI, although it's kind of a mess
  332. Jul 16 20:04:06 <FRodrigues> java is very cross platform
  333. Jul 16 20:04:12 <TheDuceCat> swing is annoying
  334. Jul 16 20:04:15 <TheDuceCat> easy but annoying
  335. Jul 16 20:04:20 <Rubicks> agreed
  336. Jul 16 20:04:29 <neTTos> What were the languages people wanted to learn?
  337. Jul 16 20:04:34 <TheDuceCat> python
  338. Jul 16 20:04:37 <TheDuceCat> i think won
  339. Jul 16 20:04:44 <Filter_> Oh i see i see, this project sounds really good. I'm excited
  340. Jul 16 20:04:48 <FRodrigues> second?
  341. Jul 16 20:04:50 <Rubicks> I'm just trying to help out the newer people more than use something I jsut want to use because I like it :D
  342. Jul 16 20:05:32 <TheDuceCat> Tell me if I'm going too far here, but what about an entire suite of game dev tools. I want get some opinions on this.
  343. Jul 16 20:05:34 <miyako> I'll just throw this out there as a general idea: The terrain management, image generation, map saving, etc. code can be done in C or C++; GUI code could be done using Python + PyGTK as a default GUI, plus C# or Objective C GUIs if we want something more native for Windows and OS X
  344. Jul 16 20:05:39 <suck_my_username> anybody use wxwidgets before? its cross-platform library to make UIs
  345. Jul 16 20:06:00 <Filter_> +1 miyako
  346. Jul 16 20:06:01 * abel (~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
  347. Jul 16 20:06:10 <suck_my_username> http://www.wxwidgets.org/
  348. Jul 16 20:06:11 <neTTos> A backend library that we can layer GUI's on top of
  349. Jul 16 20:06:11 <Filter_> but i vote C++ > C
  350. Jul 16 20:06:11 <ArrowBot> Title: wxWidgets (at www.wxwidgets.org)
  351. Jul 16 20:06:11 <TheDuceCat> what if we do a lightweight engine with the map editor with some other tools
  352. Jul 16 20:06:13 <TheDuceCat> is that too much
  353. Jul 16 20:06:14 <BrotherGA2> +1 miyako
  354. Jul 16 20:06:16 <Rubicks> miyako: I'm down, but I just hope C++ isn't too much for the majority of the people here
  355. Jul 16 20:06:24 <suck_my_username> ive worked with it before its really good
  356. Jul 16 20:06:30 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat: I would LOVE to do that, but we can start small if we want and build up
  357. Jul 16 20:06:33 <TheDuceCat> QT is great
  358. Jul 16 20:06:40 <TheDuceCat> you're right Rubricks
  359. Jul 16 20:06:46 <TheDuceCat> i've used QT before
  360. Jul 16 20:06:47 <thearrowflies> That sounds good duce
  361. Jul 16 20:06:53 <miyako> Rubicks: I think that there is plenty of frontend code to do with Python and C#, and the C or C++ code could be saved for the people who specifically want to learn those languages
  362. Jul 16 20:06:55 <suck_my_username> QT is good
  363. Jul 16 20:06:56 <FRodrigues> +1 miyako but couldn't we donne in java?
  364. Jul 16 20:06:56 <suck_my_username> too
  365. Jul 16 20:06:59 <TheDuceCat> it's cross plat and stable and easy
  366. Jul 16 20:07:01 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat: I'll check out QT
  367. Jul 16 20:07:05 <Rubicks> miyako: sounds good ::D
  368. Jul 16 20:07:12 <suck_my_username> both QT and wxWidgets make a native GUI
  369. Jul 16 20:07:22 <TheDuceCat> we could have plugins with python
  370. Jul 16 20:07:26 <FRodrigues> qt isn't c++?
  371. Jul 16 20:07:30 <suck_my_username> it is
  372. Jul 16 20:07:30 <thearrowflies> it is
  373. Jul 16 20:07:34 <TheDuceCat> and make the core functionality plugins to have the python devs happy
  374. Jul 16 20:07:35 <suck_my_username> lol beat u
  375. Jul 16 20:07:47 <TheDuceCat> qt is c++ that play snice
  376. Jul 16 20:07:48 <miyako> suck_my_username: Yeah, although I think we have the C++ covered by the backend code, so we might want to do the frontends in more managed languages for people who don't want to delve into C++
  377. Jul 16 20:07:50 <TheDuceCat> plays nice*
  378. Jul 16 20:07:50 <suck_my_username> so is the c++ code gonna be encapsulated in libraries?
  379. Jul 16 20:07:52 <Rubicks> I think we also need to figure out a plan for the coding, a documentation plan
  380. Jul 16 20:07:59 <Rubicks> so that the code is readible and reusable
  381. Jul 16 20:08:12 <TheDuceCat> standard code formatting
  382. Jul 16 20:08:24 <thearrowflies> We could follow the chrome formatting rules
  383. Jul 16 20:08:25 <thearrowflies> ?
  384. Jul 16 20:08:32 <FRodrigues> c++ isn't a little too much
  385. Jul 16 20:08:33 <TheDuceCat> not familiar with them
  386. Jul 16 20:08:35 <BrotherGA2> have we figured out how we will be using github?
  387. Jul 16 20:08:40 <TheDuceCat> probably github
  388. Jul 16 20:09:03 <thearrowflies> Im trying to add a script to this bot to work with github
  389. Jul 16 20:09:06 <miyako> I see lots of valid things to discuss, let's make a list real quick here then address them one-by-one
  390. Jul 16 20:09:10 <Filter_> ok
  391. Jul 16 20:09:12 <thearrowflies> im just waiting on the project to be made
  392. Jul 16 20:09:22 <TheDuceCat> i say we use trello for task management
  393. Jul 16 20:09:26 <miyako> 1: how are we going to manage version control / github
  394. Jul 16 20:09:29 <Rubicks> I've recently reformatted, etc, I need to set up my git directories and stuf no
  395. Jul 16 20:09:30 <TheDuceCat> complentary to github
  396. Jul 16 20:09:30 <miyako> 2: Coding standards?
  397. Jul 16 20:09:39 <miyako> 3: final decision on languages
  398. Jul 16 20:09:58 <miyako> 4: Documentation, bug tracking, etc.
  399. Jul 16 20:10:04 <TheDuceCat> the way we did it in the minecraft mod team was we all fork and do pull requests
  400. Jul 16 20:10:25 <miyako> *** Let's talk about how to manage version control ***
  401. Jul 16 20:10:58 <Rubicks> I've used both SVN and Git, SVN was easier to understand, with programs like tortoiseSVN, but I definitely like Git better since it has the web interface
  402. Jul 16 20:11:14 * bimo (54c2cb93@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.194.203.147) has joined #rpcdesktop
  403. Jul 16 20:11:14 <BrotherGA2> question: I'm about halfway through CS101 on udacity, and have been going through the github tutorial today. Should I stick to the web project or will I be able to contribute to this project as well with my skill level?
  404. Jul 16 20:11:19 <miyako> TheDuceCat: I think that is a reasonable approach. What does everyone thing of having TheDuceCat and/or myself manage the "official" repo, and have us manage pull requests?
  405. Jul 16 20:11:30 <suck_my_username> plus, git is starting to become the popular one now
  406. Jul 16 20:11:40 <TheDuceCat> i'm fine with that
  407. Jul 16 20:11:41 <thearrowflies> thats fine miyako
  408. Jul 16 20:11:54 <Rubicks> miyako: that might be a lot of work for you two but that's fine :D
  409. Jul 16 20:11:58 <miyako> BrotherGA2: you're welcome to participate here, but you might find it easier to start with the web project then come join us after that is complete so you have a full project under your belt :)
  410. Jul 16 20:12:08 <TheDuceCat> with great power comes great responsibility /spiderman
  411. Jul 16 20:12:33 * baffler has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
  412. Jul 16 20:12:36 <miyako> I imagine that things will evolve as we move forward; I think the kernel model is a good one
  413. Jul 16 20:12:59 <BrotherGA2> miyako: Well, I'll stick around and see if I can keep up. If I feel like it's a bit much or I'm hurting the team I'll stick to just the web project. I'm eager to learn :)
  414. Jul 16 20:13:10 <miyako> Linus manages final pull requests from his lieutenants, who manage pull requests for their sections of the code
  415. Jul 16 20:13:20 <miyako> and below that it's turtles all the way down
  416. Jul 16 20:13:36 <miyako> or penguins
  417. Jul 16 20:13:40 <Rubicks> haha
  418. Jul 16 20:13:40 <neTTos> lol
  419. Jul 16 20:14:00 <bimo> Is there already a project ?
  420. Jul 16 20:14:14 <thearrowflies> There is an idea
  421. Jul 16 20:14:34 <bimo> Got it written somewhere ?
  422. Jul 16 20:14:37 <bimo> or can you speed me up ?
  423. Jul 16 20:14:42 <miyako> bimo: The Project Is: A Tile Based Map Editor (with Native GUIs and a very basic web UI capability)
  424. Jul 16 20:15:19 <bimo> Hmm gotta search that up :)
  425. Jul 16 20:15:31 <TheDuceCat> Tiled map editor is a great model
  426. Jul 16 20:15:36 <Rubicks> I'm excited, this could definitely be a cool project
  427. Jul 16 20:15:39 <miyako> bimo: http://www.mapeditor.org/ that project is similar
  428. Jul 16 20:15:40 <bimo> i see
  429. Jul 16 20:15:41 <ArrowBot> Title: Tiled Map Editor (at www.mapeditor.org)
  430. Jul 16 20:15:41 <TheDuceCat> but i think we can improve on it if we work hard
  431. Jul 16 20:15:42 <Fast_Absorbing> Anyway, I need to get going
  432. Jul 16 20:15:49 <TheDuceCat> see you later fast
  433. Jul 16 20:15:53 <thearrowflies> cya
  434. Jul 16 20:15:53 <miyako> Fast_Absorbing: take care
  435. Jul 16 20:16:01 <Rubicks> Fast_Absorbing: See ya
  436. Jul 16 20:16:02 <Fast_Absorbing> Someone should post some kind of write-up tomorrow maybe on the subreddit, or logs
  437. Jul 16 20:16:14 <Fast_Absorbing> Thanks guys, see you
  438. Jul 16 20:16:15 <miyako> I'll post a summary after the meetings tonight
  439. Jul 16 20:16:22 <TheDuceCat> what do you guys think of https://trello.com/ for project management
  440. Jul 16 20:16:23 <ArrowBot> Title: Trello (at trello.com)
  441. Jul 16 20:16:24 * Fast_Absorbing (~chatzilla@cpc2-cmbg12-0-0-cust263.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has left #rpcdesktop
  442. Jul 16 20:16:30 <neTTos> Trello is great
  443. Jul 16 20:16:37 <TheDuceCat> it helps us organize our thoughts/ideas/bugs/features/tasks
  444. Jul 16 20:16:40 <neTTos> I've used it for a few projects now
  445. Jul 16 20:16:44 <TheDuceCat> same
  446. Jul 16 20:16:46 <bimo> What language are we gonne use ?
  447. Jul 16 20:16:49 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat: I've never used it, looks awesome though!
  448. Jul 16 20:16:53 <miyako> I've never used it, but I'm open
  449. Jul 16 20:16:57 <TheDuceCat> QT is my choice
  450. Jul 16 20:17:04 <TheDuceCat> cross platform low level and nice IDE
  451. Jul 16 20:17:14 <miyako> we shouldn't invest too much into it IMHO since we want to start using the web project once it becomes usable
  452. Jul 16 20:17:25 * Rosur (Rosur@oceanware.plus.com) has left #rpcdesktop
  453. Jul 16 20:17:36 <Rubicks> QT for low level stuff, Python C# for some frontend stuff?
  454. Jul 16 20:17:44 <thearrowflies> signed up on trello
  455. Jul 16 20:17:45 <thearrowflies> what now?
  456. Jul 16 20:17:52 <TheDuceCat> i will make the board in a bit
  457. Jul 16 20:17:59 <TheDuceCat> +1 Rubricks
  458. Jul 16 20:18:02 <miyako> Personally I'm in favor of C99 with glib for the backend
  459. Jul 16 20:18:12 <TheDuceCat> never heard of either :(
  460. Jul 16 20:18:15 <miyako> but I don't expect to win that argument
  461. Jul 16 20:18:20 <thearrowflies> lol
  462. Jul 16 20:18:29 <Rubicks> miyako: Good luck convincing us :D
  463. Jul 16 20:18:36 <miyako> C99 is just the newer C standard, if we used it though we'd have to use GCC even on windows since VS doesn't support it
  464. Jul 16 20:18:39 <TheDuceCat> maybe lua/python for addons
  465. Jul 16 20:19:13 <thearrowflies> We should sell the finished product to non redditors
  466. Jul 16 20:19:20 <TheDuceCat> Open source
  467. Jul 16 20:19:25 <TheDuceCat> is the only way
  468. Jul 16 20:19:27 <neTTos> Open Source!
  469. Jul 16 20:19:30 <bimo> Indeed
  470. Jul 16 20:19:35 <miyako> That's a good point, we should discuss licensing
  471. Jul 16 20:19:35 <FRodrigues> FOSS!
  472. Jul 16 20:19:37 <TheDuceCat> while money would be great
  473. Jul 16 20:19:43 <bimo> Donation
  474. Jul 16 20:19:46 <TheDuceCat> open source gives back to the community
  475. Jul 16 20:19:50 <bimo> To get us going would help better :)
  476. Jul 16 20:19:52 <thearrowflies> yeah
  477. Jul 16 20:19:56 <miyako> I'm in favor of GPL3, but open to LGPL or BSD licenses
  478. Jul 16 20:20:01 <Rubicks> kickstarter? haha ;P
  479. Jul 16 20:20:07 <TheDuceCat> i'm not familiar with licenses
  480. Jul 16 20:20:08 <FRodrigues> LOL
  481. Jul 16 20:20:15 <miyako> I think we should not accept donations right now because then someone has to manage money
  482. Jul 16 20:20:20 <TheDuceCat> +1
  483. Jul 16 20:20:24 <Rubicks> + miyako
  484. Jul 16 20:20:27 <BrotherGA2> +1 miyako
  485. Jul 16 20:20:28 <Rubicks> +1*
  486. Jul 16 20:20:30 <FRodrigues> +1
  487. Jul 16 20:20:34 <BrotherGA2> I say open source
  488. Jul 16 20:20:34 <TheDuceCat> miyako mind if i make a trello for us?
  489. Jul 16 20:20:38 <bimo> +1 but accept donations when we have a program :)
  490. Jul 16 20:20:39 <TheDuceCat> or would you rather me hold off
  491. Jul 16 20:20:39 <miyako> TheDuceCat: go for it :)
  492. Jul 16 20:20:43 <TheDuceCat> alright thanks
  493. Jul 16 20:20:58 <bimo> But i think it's kinda important to have a president
  494. Jul 16 20:21:01 <FRodrigues> i could manage the money (hawai here I go :P)
  495. Jul 16 20:21:06 <thearrowflies> lol
  496. Jul 16 20:21:12 <bimo> like someone who is more specialized into programming
  497. Jul 16 20:21:14 <miyako> if the code is released (L)GPL or BSD you can sell it all you want if you comply with the license :)
  498. Jul 16 20:21:40 <neTTos> Let's write a program before we get ahead of ourselves
  499. Jul 16 20:21:50 <Rubicks> +1 nettos
  500. Jul 16 20:21:59 <Rubicks> it's too easy to look months ahead
  501. Jul 16 20:22:02 <TheDuceCat> alright i made an organization
  502. Jul 16 20:22:04 <miyako> neTTos: I generally agree, but I do think settling on a license is somewhat important
  503. Jul 16 20:22:04 <neTTos> It is
  504. Jul 16 20:22:05 <FRodrigues> miyako: I prefer to compile myself thanks!
  505. Jul 16 20:22:12 <TheDuceCat> i have to invite people by email so how are we going to do this
  506. Jul 16 20:22:22 <miyako> All in favor of GPL3 with no contributor agreement (everyone retains copyright of the code they submit) +1
  507. Jul 16 20:22:27 <thearrowflies> pm the emails
  508. Jul 16 20:22:34 <Rubicks> +1 miyako
  509. Jul 16 20:22:37 <TheDuceCat> miyako +1
  510. Jul 16 20:22:44 <thearrowflies> i dont know anything about licenses so +1
  511. Jul 16 20:22:48 <TheDuceCat> oh god pm flood incoming
  512. Jul 16 20:23:01 <TheDuceCat> list of emails or would you guys rather not do that
  513. Jul 16 20:23:03 <FRodrigues> -1
  514. Jul 16 20:23:06 <bimo> 0 | 1 = x ?
  515. Jul 16 20:23:10 <TheDuceCat> ???
  516. Jul 16 20:23:13 <bimo> what is X
  517. Jul 16 20:23:13 <TheDuceCat> PROFIT
  518. Jul 16 20:23:47 <miyako> TheDuceCat: I'm only opposed to it since this will be posted on reddit for bots to crawl
  519. Jul 16 20:24:03 <thearrowflies> trello has an api? we should write a desktop verion of it
  520. Jul 16 20:24:09 <thearrowflies> if there isnt one already
  521. Jul 16 20:24:23 <TheDuceCat> hmm
  522. Jul 16 20:24:34 <TheDuceCat> that was made mostly for mobile OSs but it could work
  523. Jul 16 20:24:39 <thearrowflies> ohh
  524. Jul 16 20:24:53 <TheDuceCat> alright pm me your emails
  525. Jul 16 20:24:57 <TheDuceCat> oh god here we go
  526. Jul 16 20:25:02 <miyako> So, my short argument for C over C++: C is a smaller language, easier for newcommers to learn; it has less pitfalls than C++ due to feature interaction, and if we are going to write the core component as a library then it is easier to write bindings for that library if it's done in C
  527. Jul 16 20:25:42 <TheDuceCat> i guess but how are we going to make it cross platform
  528. Jul 16 20:25:45 <Rubicks> miyako: I'm down for whatever, I'm super rusty with C but in the long run, I'm here for the collaboration and I'd like to think I can pick up a language fairly quickly
  529. Jul 16 20:25:47 <TheDuceCat> isn't it really hard to do without a lib
  530. Jul 16 20:26:01 <TheDuceCat> i like how QT can handle all platforms for us
  531. Jul 16 20:26:13 <TheDuceCat> so we don't get stuck in the mud in the beginning making sure everything works for all platforms
  532. Jul 16 20:26:15 <Rubicks> QT does look pretty nifty
  533. Jul 16 20:26:17 <thearrowflies> yeah
  534. Jul 16 20:26:40 <miyako> TheDuceCat: C libraries will do that as well, and most of the backend code should not be very platform dependent anyway
  535. Jul 16 20:27:17 <miyako> also, C++ + Qt may be even more difficult for people learning C++, since it's not really standard C++ due to the requirement of using qmake and it's preprocessor to deal with signals/slots
  536. Jul 16 20:27:35 <TheDuceCat> i picked up QT quite easily
  537. Jul 16 20:27:45 <FRodrigues> but c++ with oop would be much more easy to read and maintain
  538. Jul 16 20:27:48 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat but you seem like an experienced programmer?
  539. Jul 16 20:28:12 <Rubicks> I'm just worried about keeping the newer programmers afloat
  540. Jul 16 20:28:14 <TheDuceCat> i don't know i just pick up things quickly
  541. Jul 16 20:28:26 <Filter_> if we dont need OOP i say we use C
  542. Jul 16 20:28:29 <Rubicks> I haven't used either, so I don't know what the ebst would be
  543. Jul 16 20:28:39 <Rubicks> I've used C and C++, but not the specifics
  544. Jul 16 20:28:40 <Filter_> C is easy for anyone who is worried about that
  545. Jul 16 20:28:48 <Rubicks> not QT and not glib
  546. Jul 16 20:29:03 <FRodrigues> this is too much large scale to do without oop, I think
  547. Jul 16 20:29:06 <TheDuceCat> some of us here haven't touched anything low level so a jump to c might be worse than c++
  548. Jul 16 20:29:07 <thearrowflies> cant we use both c and c++/qt?
  549. Jul 16 20:29:11 <TheDuceCat> i don't know that is just what i'm thinking
  550. Jul 16 20:29:16 <calzone21> alright guys, i got to go. i'll check the subreddit for updates!
  551. Jul 16 20:29:22 <Filter_> lates
  552. Jul 16 20:29:24 <TheDuceCat> *** IF YOU HAVEN'T PLEASE PM ME YOUR EMAILS ***
  553. Jul 16 20:29:26 * calzone21 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  554. Jul 16 20:29:28 <Rubicks> oh crap
  555. Jul 16 20:30:05 <FRodrigues> fuuuu i forgot how to pm :S
  556. Jul 16 20:30:16 <miyako> I don't think that OOP is necessary for the backend piece really
  557. Jul 16 20:30:43 <Filter_> pm = /msg name [message]
  558. Jul 16 20:31:04 <Rubicks> I love OOP, but kk
  559. Jul 16 20:31:06 <TheDuceCat> i think QT will help some ease into GUI programming
  560. Jul 16 20:31:25 <Rubicks> anyway guys, I have to head out and finish this move
  561. Jul 16 20:31:34 <miyako> okay Rubicks, take care
  562. Jul 16 20:31:41 <Rubicks> Take care everybody
  563. Jul 16 20:31:50 <miyako> TheDuceCat: GLib is part of GTK+
  564. Jul 16 20:32:08 <miyako> (well, sort of, they were broken apart so that GLib could be used without the GUI components)
  565. Jul 16 20:32:11 * Rubicks has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  566. Jul 16 20:32:18 <neTTos> I gotta leave too, I'll check the subreddit for the next meeting
  567. Jul 16 20:32:21 <TheDuceCat> http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/GTK_vs_Qt
  568. Jul 16 20:32:22 <ArrowBot> Title: GTK vs Qt - WikiVS (at www.wikivs.com)
  569. Jul 16 20:32:27 <TheDuceCat> i've been reading this
  570. Jul 16 20:32:35 <tboat> ****Mods check in time, discuss with each other about a recap, info you want to share, and one of ya send me a PM soonish! Thanks!!! :) *****
  571. Jul 16 20:32:38 <thearrowflies> im for QT
  572. Jul 16 20:33:25 <miyako> I'm okay with C++, I'm not sure that Qt is necessary for the backend piece at all with C++ since we can use the STL and Boost
  573. Jul 16 20:33:44 <TheDuceCat> never used boost
  574. Jul 16 20:33:48 * neTTos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  575. Jul 16 20:33:49 <TheDuceCat> heard of it a lot
  576. Jul 16 20:33:56 <thearrowflies> it has alot of useful things
  577. Jul 16 20:33:56 <TheDuceCat> how much overhead does that induce
  578. Jul 16 20:34:07 <thearrowflies> but takes a while to learn
  579. Jul 16 20:34:11 <thearrowflies> for me atleast
  580. Jul 16 20:34:16 <miyako> TheDuceCat: less than Qt probably, it's more like an extension of the STL
  581. Jul 16 20:34:48 <miyako> I suspect that we won't need much beyond the STL anyway honestly, aside from maybe OpenCV or something to manage the graphics stuff
  582. Jul 16 20:35:13 <TheDuceCat> both options are viable. tiled uses QT, used to use java/swing
  583. Jul 16 20:35:33 <miyako> TheDuceCat: I thought we were going with Python for the GUI piece?
  584. Jul 16 20:35:33 <thearrowflies> I wouldnt mind going to java :p
  585. Jul 16 20:35:52 <FRodrigues> I would love java :P
  586. Jul 16 20:35:56 <TheDuceCat> i didn't know
  587. Jul 16 20:35:58 <thearrowflies> Yeah
  588. Jul 16 20:36:02 <miyako> Maybe we could go pure C for the library piece, then a C++/Qt gui and a python GUI?
  589. Jul 16 20:36:04 <thearrowflies> if we were going to use python for gui
  590. Jul 16 20:36:12 <thearrowflies> yeah
  591. Jul 16 20:36:14 <thearrowflies> +1
  592. Jul 16 20:36:21 <TheDuceCat> lua for modules/plugins maybe?
  593. Jul 16 20:36:27 <TheDuceCat> or py idk
  594. Jul 16 20:36:44 <miyako> TheDuceCat: I quite like lua, but python may be better since it seems like they are going to use python for the web project
  595. Jul 16 20:36:51 <TheDuceCat> alright
  596. Jul 16 20:37:46 <bimo> What about javascript ?
  597. Jul 16 20:37:54 <thearrowflies> for a desktop app?
  598. Jul 16 20:38:03 <bimo> oh shit nope
  599. Jul 16 20:38:09 <FRodrigues> lol
  600. Jul 16 20:38:09 <bimo> was in the wrong channel
  601. Jul 16 20:38:14 <Filter_> :)
  602. Jul 16 20:38:29 <miyako> So, TheDuceCat brought up a good question, what will be in the backend exactly
  603. Jul 16 20:38:49 <thearrowflies> anything that would interact with the webserver/web ui
  604. Jul 16 20:38:53 <thearrowflies> im guessing
  605. Jul 16 20:39:02 <miyako> the general idea I had was this: The library/backend piece would be focused on keeping track of the map
  606. Jul 16 20:39:19 <Filter_> yea it needs to
  607. Jul 16 20:39:33 <miyako> so it would keep track of tile placement, terrain, etc. It would be able to generate a mesh or SVG drawing or something for the display side
  608. Jul 16 20:39:52 <Filter_> +1
  609. Jul 16 20:39:53 <miyako> and also be able to accept input in the form of some tile to place, where in the map to place it, and probably some parameters
  610. Jul 16 20:40:13 <TheDuceCat> can't we keep that with c++/qt to make it more streamlined
  611. Jul 16 20:40:16 <TheDuceCat> i'm not sure
  612. Jul 16 20:40:42 <Filter_> we should if possible use as few tools as possible
  613. Jul 16 20:41:13 <Filter_> but its not like vanilla C is a big deal
  614. Jul 16 20:41:17 <TheDuceCat> *** ANYONE WHO HAS NOT SENT ME THEIR EMAIL, PLEASE DO SO ***
  615. Jul 16 20:41:21 <Filter_> im ok with either way
  616. Jul 16 20:41:53 <miyako> architecturally speaking, the map management code should be separate from the interface code even if everything was done in C++
  617. Jul 16 20:42:16 <TheDuceCat> yeah seperate sort of like how MVC works
  618. Jul 16 20:42:23 <miyako> so I don't think that using vanilla C for the library is a particularly complecting decision, especially given the similarities of the languages
  619. Jul 16 20:43:25 <miyako> my experience has been that using vanilla C makes generating language bindings MUCH easier, so if we want to be able to have web/python/c++ frontends it might be a good way to go
  620. Jul 16 20:43:35 <miyako> but I understand the hesitation to use too many different languages
  621. Jul 16 20:43:44 <TheDuceCat> so lets break down stages from low to high
  622. Jul 16 20:44:25 <TheDuceCat> C for backend
  623. Jul 16 20:44:38 <TheDuceCat> C++/QT for GUI
  624. Jul 16 20:44:40 <TheDuceCat> python?
  625. Jul 16 20:44:46 <thearrowflies> plugins?
  626. Jul 16 20:44:52 <TheDuceCat> plugins with python
  627. Jul 16 20:44:56 <miyako> python to provide a web service for a javascript viewer of maps?
  628. Jul 16 20:45:03 <thearrowflies> +1
  629. Jul 16 20:45:35 <TheDuceCat> what language is the web team using
  630. Jul 16 20:45:37 <TheDuceCat> python?
  631. Jul 16 20:45:42 <thearrowflies> let me find out
  632. Jul 16 20:48:21 * DrosophiliaMaxim has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  633. Jul 16 20:48:31 <tboat> ****Update coming to #rProgCollab 5 minutes!****
  634. Jul 16 20:48:58 <thearrowflies> <tboat> we will touch base tomorrow and have ppl work on creating the HTML/CSS for the page and people more experienced can work on the backend with Django and the DB
  635. Jul 16 20:48:58 <thearrowflies> . will be some python too eventually
  636. Jul 16 20:48:58 <thearrowflies> <tboat> possibly some javascript
  637. Jul 16 20:48:59 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Error: "will" is not a valid command.
  638. Jul 16 20:49:12 <thearrowflies> ArrowBot, screw you
  639. Jul 16 20:49:13 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Error: "screw" is not a valid command.
  640. Jul 16 20:49:17 <miyako> lol
  641. Jul 16 20:49:25 <TheDuceCat> lol
  642. Jul 16 20:49:29 <miyako> so python if they are using django
  643. Jul 16 20:49:31 <Filter_> .end
  644. Jul 16 20:49:32 <ArrowBot> Filter_: Error: "end" is not a valid command.
  645. Jul 16 20:49:42 <TheDuceCat> alright
  646. Jul 16 20:49:43 <thearrowflies> ArrowBot, question?
  647. Jul 16 20:49:45 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Error: "question?" is not a valid command.
  648. Jul 16 20:49:47 <thearrowflies> ffs
  649. Jul 16 20:49:50 <Filter_> .name FailBot
  650. Jul 16 20:49:51 <ArrowBot> Filter_: Error: "name" is not a valid command.
  651. Jul 16 20:50:05 <thearrowflies> AI is broken
  652. Jul 16 20:50:23 <TheDuceCat> so what is python for besides plugins
  653. Jul 16 20:50:47 <miyako> TheDuceCat: I think a python web service using the plugin would be good, and could tie in to a javascript map viewer
  654. Jul 16 20:50:50 <thearrowflies> the map viewer? or is that a plugin?
  655. Jul 16 20:51:21 <miyako> *** Quick non-binding vote so that we can provide a recap *** We want to use C for the backend lib, C++/Qt for a GUI, and python for gui plugins/scripting and for providing a web service
  656. Jul 16 20:51:31 <thearrowflies> I
  657. Jul 16 20:51:40 <TheDuceCat> I
  658. Jul 16 20:51:49 <miyako> thearrowflies: I think the C++/GUI app will be used for creating maps, but maybe you can also view them through a google maps like thing via javascript on the web
  659. Jul 16 20:51:54 <miyako> aye
  660. Jul 16 20:51:54 <TheDuceCat> +1/Agree/Upboat/Like
  661. Jul 16 20:52:02 <miyako> okay, I'm going to let tboat know
  662. Jul 16 20:52:05 <Filter_> aye
  663. Jul 16 20:52:13 <FRodrigues> AYE AYE
  664. Jul 16 20:52:22 <thearrowflies> captain
  665. Jul 16 20:52:28 <thearrowflies> .list
  666. Jul 16 20:52:29 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Admin, Alias, Anonymous, AutoMode, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, Dict, Games, Google, Internet, Later, Math, Misc, Network, News, NickCapture, Note, Owner, Plugin, Reply, ShrinkUrl, Status, String, Time, User, Utilities, and Web
  667. Jul 16 20:52:58 <Filter_> i cant hearrrrrrr u
  668. Jul 16 20:53:17 <thearrowflies> are we all going to use the same ide or whatever? because sometimes things dont always work across ides
  669. Jul 16 20:53:20 <Filter_> .google spongebob
  670. Jul 16 20:53:21 <ArrowBot> Filter_: SpongeBob.com | SpongeBob SquarePants Episodes, Games ...: <http://spongebob.nick.com/>; SpongeBob Episodes, Videos, & Clips | SpongeBob.com: <http://spongebob.nick.com/videos/>; SpongeBob SquarePants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants>; SpongeBob SquarePants (TV Series 1999) - IMDb: (2 more messages)
  671. Jul 16 20:53:49 <miyako> thearrowflies: we will work on establishing coding conventions, and everyone will need to configure their IDE or editor to follow those
  672. Jul 16 20:53:54 <Filter_> yea
  673. Jul 16 20:54:00 <thearrowflies> ok
  674. Jul 16 20:54:03 <Filter_> i use vim so its ok
  675. Jul 16 20:54:18 <TheDuceCat> well we have to use QT for the gui part
  676. Jul 16 20:54:29 <FRodrigues> emacs is so much better :P
  677. Jul 16 20:54:30 * ArexBawrin (~chatzilla@97.103.19.131) has joined #rpcdesktop
  678. Jul 16 20:54:33 <Filter_> :p
  679. Jul 16 20:54:33 <FRodrigues> im kidding :P
  680. Jul 16 20:54:43 <Filter_> howd the pinky surgery go
  681. Jul 16 20:54:47 <thearrowflies> netbeans ftw!
  682. Jul 16 20:55:01 <bimo> Netbeans i know that one
  683. Jul 16 20:55:07 <bimo> used it for PHPP and java
  684. Jul 16 20:55:14 <TheDuceCat> i use eclipse and msvc
  685. Jul 16 20:55:29 <Filter_> im ok with using whatever will help us be productive
  686. Jul 16 20:55:35 <Filter_> as a group
  687. Jul 16 20:55:51 <ArexBawrin> im late to the party sorry guys, anybody mention QT?
  688. Jul 16 20:56:00 <Filter_> yes many times
  689. Jul 16 20:56:08 <ArexBawrin> haha excellent...
  690. Jul 16 20:56:10 <thearrowflies> a bunch of google wave pages where we can all program on the same file at the same time.
  691. Jul 16 20:56:14 <thearrowflies> +1 me
  692. Jul 16 20:56:37 <Filter_> *** Quick non-binding vote so that we can provide a recap *** We want to use C for the backend lib, C++/Qt for a GUI, and python for gui plugins/scripting and for providing a web service
  693. Jul 16 20:56:41 <Filter_> arex ^^^
  694. Jul 16 20:56:44 <Filter_> that was the last update
  695. Jul 16 20:56:57 <bimo> Oh man this thing goes fast i hears a lot of names i never heard off
  696. Jul 16 20:57:19 <Filter_> desktop stuff is go big or go home
  697. Jul 16 20:57:31 <TheDuceCat> +1
  698. Jul 16 20:57:34 * thearrowflies has changed the topic to: The Project Is: A Tile Based Map Editor (with Native GUIs and a very basic web UI capability) - We want to use C for the backend lib, C++/Qt for a GUI, and python for gui plugins/scripting and for providing a web service.
  699. Jul 16 20:57:41 <TheDuceCat> +1
  700. Jul 16 20:57:58 <bimo> hahha :D
  701. Jul 16 20:58:10 <bimo> Rivalry between deskptop and web
  702. Jul 16 20:58:14 <ArexBawrin> any algos we might implement in this?
  703. Jul 16 20:58:31 <ArexBawrin> cs algorithms*
  704. Jul 16 20:58:53 <Filter_> idk
  705. Jul 16 20:59:00 <Filter_> everything we are doing has been done before
  706. Jul 16 20:59:05 <TheDuceCat> what would've been cool was have the same problem that the desktop and web team had to make a program for and see which was better :D
  707. Jul 16 20:59:07 <miyako> ArexBawrin: I'm sure there will be several, but we'll need to look at that when we start establishing requirements
  708. Jul 16 20:59:19 <FRodrigues> the only thing im afraid is the complexity of c and c++ :/
  709. Jul 16 20:59:39 <Filter_> its not hard just looks hard if uve never curly braced before
  710. Jul 16 20:59:44 <ArexBawrin> FRodrigues: me too, but that's what the mentors are for
  711. Jul 16 20:59:46 <thearrowflies> lol
  712. Jul 16 20:59:59 <tboat> *****ATTENTION!!!! Update in #rProgCollab!!!!!!!!!
  713. Jul 16 21:00:23 <thearrowflies> Do you guys want to meet tomorrow?
  714. Jul 16 21:00:27 <thearrowflies> What time?
  715. Jul 16 21:00:46 <Filter_> I have a biochem exam so idk if I can
  716. Jul 16 21:00:53 <Filter_> ill let others decide on the time
  717. Jul 16 21:00:59 <FRodrigues> same time
  718. Jul 16 21:01:04 <miyako> I'm good with the same time tomorrow
  719. Jul 16 21:01:09 <TheDuceCat> same
  720. Jul 16 21:01:11 <ArexBawrin> same time is fine
  721. Jul 16 21:01:24 <FRodrigues> 7pm est 00:00 GMT
  722. Jul 16 21:01:51 <miyako> *** SUGGESTION FOR TOMORROWS MEETING ***
  723. Jul 16 21:01:52 <Justin___> sure, but I probably wont be able to make it until 7:30-7:45
  724. Jul 16 21:02:08 <tboat> all chats logged during official times
  725. Jul 16 21:02:41 <miyako> we need coding standards, standards of community conduct, and a more firm set of requirements. let's bring these ideas to the meeting tomorrow to be voted on
  726. Jul 16 21:03:03 <thearrowflies> ok
  727. Jul 16 21:03:15 <FRodrigues> just one question, the backend could be done in java? but we are not going to do because we want to work in c right?
  728. Jul 16 21:03:41 <TheDuceCat> backend java front end c++?
  729. Jul 16 21:03:45 <TheDuceCat> OH GOD RUN
  730. Jul 16 21:04:02 <FRodrigues> im starting with java
  731. Jul 16 21:04:03 <miyako> FRodrigues: it could theoretically be done in Java, but Java doesn't really accell at the type of code that I think we'll need to write for the backend
  732. Jul 16 21:04:03 <thearrowflies> -------end of log------nothing after this will be logged
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