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  1. Jul 10 14:05:38 <add1sun> alrighty, let's get this thing rolling
  2. Jul 10 14:05:52 <add1sun> basically we are here to talk about docs for Drupal 7
  3. Jul 10 14:05:59 <add1sun> Drupal 6 was a debacle
  4. Jul 10 14:06:04 <add1sun> and we need to not do that again
  5. Jul 10 14:06:17 <add1sun> code freeze for D7 is Sept 1
  6. Jul 10 14:06:22 <add1sun> which is only 6 weeks away
  7. Jul 10 14:06:32 <jhodgdon> Explain what was a debacle for Drupal 6 (not that I think it wasn't, necessarily)?
  8. Jul 10 14:06:49 <add1sun> well we had no basic getting started guide for Drupal 6
  9. Jul 10 14:06:56 <add1sun> until about 6 months after it was released
  10. Jul 10 14:07:08 <add1sun> not to even go into the state of the API docs on release
  11. Jul 10 14:07:27 * Senpai (n=Senpai@ip68-107-4-21.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #drupal-docs
  12. Jul 10 14:07:36 <add1sun> now API docs this time around are much more up to date
  13. Jul 10 14:07:48 <add1sun> because of angie ;)
  14. Jul 10 14:08:32 <add1sun> but what i'd like to sort out in this meeting
  15. Jul 10 14:08:41 <add1sun> is what do we consider minimum needs for docs
  16. Jul 10 14:08:45 <add1sun> *on release*
  17. Jul 10 14:08:50 <add1sun> of course we can't do everything
  18. Jul 10 14:09:09 <add1sun> but what is the stuff we really should aim to have done so people can start using D7
  19. Jul 10 14:09:24 <add1sun> the most obvious is a getting started guide
  20. Jul 10 14:09:41 <add1sun> that covers install, basic config
  21. Jul 10 14:09:43 <add1sun> core modules
  22. Jul 10 14:09:52 <add1sun> and upgrading
  23. Jul 10 14:10:13 <add1sun> i'd also like for us to do an API review
  24. Jul 10 14:10:30 * webchick is watching, feel free to ping if any questions
  25. Jul 10 14:10:32 <add1sun> the API is much better this time, but a good review of it for gaps would be good
  26. Jul 10 14:11:10 <add1sun> I've set up a comm initiatives page
  27. Jul 10 14:11:22 <add1sun> for us to start outlining some of this stuff
  28. Jul 10 14:11:23 <add1sun> http://drupal.org/node/515870
  29. Jul 10 14:11:24 <jhodgdon> Is is possible we'll have doc IA issues sorted before D7 release?
  30. Jul 10 14:11:25 <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/515870 => Drupal 7 documentation => 1 IRC mention
  31. Jul 10 14:11:44 <add1sun> jhodgdon, possible, but can't really say right now
  32. Jul 10 14:11:52 <add1sun> i'm really hoping that we will
  33. Jul 10 14:12:09 * Margaux (n=chatzill@208-59-169-250.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com) has joined #drupal-docs
  34. Jul 10 14:12:13 <add1sun> but i don't want to wait on that since it will but us too far behind
  35. Jul 10 14:12:21 <add1sun> s/but/put
  36. Jul 10 14:12:37 <add1sun> so while we may end up redoing some stuff for the IA
  37. Jul 10 14:12:48 <add1sun> i'd rather have *something*
  38. Jul 10 14:12:52 <add1sun> and redo than have nothing
  39. Jul 10 14:12:58 * eojthebrave (n=eojthebr@75.72.215.175) has joined #drupal-docs
  40. Jul 10 14:12:59 <add1sun> and get caught with our pants down again
  41. Jul 10 14:13:04 <drumm> add1sun: will/can the IA cover api.d.o?
  42. Jul 10 14:13:18 * mcjim has quit ()
  43. Jul 10 14:13:31 <add1sun> drumm, at this point i don't think that is on radar so much
  44. Jul 10 14:13:41 <add1sun> i haven't actually discussed that specifically with becca
  45. Jul 10 14:14:38 <drumm> no worries, but I'm up for it if becca has the bandwidth
  46. Jul 10 14:14:47 <add1sun> drumm, let me talk with her and then we can loop you in for your thoughts on how you'd like to proceed
  47. Jul 10 14:14:53 <jhodgdon> drumm: my opinion is that api.d.o is already reasonably well organized and reasonably easy to find stuff. Do you think it needs IA?
  48. Jul 10 14:16:20 <add1sun> yeah i agree with jhodgdon that the API itself is actually the best organized docs we have ;)
  49. Jul 10 14:16:46 <drumm> a lot of it might be content changes, better topic/groups for example, but I think there are structural issues floating around
  50. Jul 10 14:17:05 <drumm> and thinking about the themer audience more
  51. Jul 10 14:17:10 <add1sun> drumm, it would definitely be good to chat abut that with becca
  52. Jul 10 14:17:13 * LeeHunter (i=4633eeb3@gateway/web/freenode/x-fba29fa64bf8ed43) has joined #drupal-docs
  53. Jul 10 14:17:13 <add1sun> ah yeah
  54. Jul 10 14:17:36 <add1sun> well defintely *all* docs around code need some thinking
  55. Jul 10 14:17:49 * add1sun adds API to IA listy
  56. Jul 10 14:18:11 <drumm> oh and general doc/api integration (done now)
  57. Jul 10 14:18:18 <add1sun> drumm, do you have any thoughts specifically about things we can do to prep the API docs for D7?
  58. Jul 10 14:18:27 <jhodgdon> If we're thinking about doing better doc for D7 release: - themers guide, module dev guide, updating modules, updating themes should be on the list
  59. Jul 10 14:18:27 <add1sun> well webchick too for that matter
  60. Jul 10 14:18:41 <webchick> jhodgdon has been single-handedly pwning the API docs.
  61. Jul 10 14:18:54 <webchick> But a general review of everything would be great.
  62. Jul 10 14:19:01 <add1sun> jhodgdon, well i guess i'm also concerned abut prioritizing
  63. Jul 10 14:19:08 <add1sun> because ideally all of that should be done
  64. Jul 10 14:19:11 <webchick> I have been marking committed patches that need documentation with "Needs documentation"
  65. Jul 10 14:19:11 <jhodgdon> just fixing bugs others have identified mostly, and noticing other issues that come up in the course of that :)
  66. Jul 10 14:19:17 <add1sun> but i'm not sure we will get to all of it
  67. Jul 10 14:19:27 <jhodgdon> I havent' done anything like a systematic review of the API doc.
  68. Jul 10 14:19:46 <jhodgdon> would need to think about what we are looking for in the review: docs out of sync with code, docs missing, ???
  69. Jul 10 14:20:01 <webchick> So priority I guess would be on making sure that http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?text=&assigned=&submitted=&participant=&status[]=13&status[]=8&status[]=14&version[]=7.x&issue_tags=Needs+Documentation is down to 0
  70. Jul 10 14:20:21 <add1sun> webchick, awesome
  71. Jul 10 14:20:32 * add1sun updates outline page
  72. Jul 10 14:20:42 <jhodgdon> webchick: I normally only search on the component "documentation" to find things that need fixing. Recategorizing existing issues would help.
  73. Jul 10 14:20:44 <webchick> jhodgdon, IMO first priority is on missing docs. We had over 50 hooks undocumented in D6 until 6 months after release. If there's not even a stub entry, people simply have no idea that a hook even exists. This is unacceptable.
  74. Jul 10 14:20:55 <webchick> jhodgdon, Oh! Good call!
  75. Jul 10 14:21:06 <webchick> I didn't think of that, duh. :D
  76. Jul 10 14:21:30 <jhodgdon> webchick: yes, good. Search for places calling hooks, and then make sure those hooks are documented. Good review for API docs.
  77. Jul 10 14:21:33 <drumm> add1sun: in an ideal world, rewrite the doc comment parser, write a really good how to write in-code docs guide, and get lots of people reading that guide and improving docs. particularly adding examples, one of the most common requests. don't think that is happening in a few weeks.
  78. Jul 10 14:21:42 <webchick> jhodgdon, / add1sun So "hopefully" our missing doc ratio should be much, much better than any other Drupal release before it because API docs are part of core now.
  79. Jul 10 14:21:54 <webchick> jhodgdon, / add1sun However, something for which this is definitely NOT true is Form API docs. Ugh.
  80. Jul 10 14:22:05 <jhodgdon> When can we consider the API itself (independent of docs) not to be so much of a moving target?
  81. Jul 10 14:22:08 <webchick> The Form API reference is just a complete beast that's impossible to update.
  82. Jul 10 14:22:13 <webchick> jhodgdon, 9/1.
  83. Jul 10 14:22:17 <jhodgdon> Actually I've done a considerable amount of work updating it
  84. Jul 10 14:22:27 <add1sun> webchick, yeah FAPI is sadness :(
  85. Jul 10 14:22:29 <webchick> jhodgdon, "in theory" what happens 9/1 is we throw down the gauntlet and say "no more API changes"
  86. Jul 10 14:22:37 <jhodgdon> webchick: OK, then API doc review should wait for 9/1
  87. Jul 10 14:23:07 <webchick> jhodgdon, Correct. Feel free to keep doing what you're doing in the meantime! but an organized "seriously, let's clean this crap up" defintely should fall after 9/1.
  88. Jul 10 14:23:18 <add1sun> right so
  89. Jul 10 14:23:20 <add1sun> for API
  90. Jul 10 14:23:24 <webchick> But could fall shortly thereafter. Like it could potentially be a task at the doc sprint at Paris.
  91. Jul 10 14:23:29 <add1sun> we do the "needs docs" issues now and as we go
  92. Jul 10 14:23:31 <jhodgdon> Yeah. I'll keep fixing drupal/doc issues in the meantime.
  93. Jul 10 14:23:42 <add1sun> then at Drupalcon paris we start a complete review
  94. Jul 10 14:23:56 <webchick> add1sun, +1
  95. Jul 10 14:23:58 <jhodgdon> (sob) probably not going to Paris
  96. Jul 10 14:24:03 <add1sun> and note that we will have *2* doc sprints in paris
  97. Jul 10 14:24:04 <webchick> jhodgdon, noooo! :(
  98. Jul 10 14:24:16 <add1sun> jhodgdon, we will definitely do virtual too!
  99. Jul 10 14:24:17 <jhodgdon> Not in budget. I'm a self-employed freelancer.
  100. Jul 10 14:24:24 <jhodgdon> in Seattle.
  101. Jul 10 14:24:45 <webchick> jhodgdon, You know, going to a Drupalcon is a very good way to become a way-more-employed-than-you-ever-thought-possible freelancer. Saying. :)
  102. Jul 10 14:24:45 <add1sun> so no need to be at the con to do the sprints
  103. Jul 10 14:24:54 <Margaux> yay for virtual docsprint! :)
  104. Jul 10 14:25:18 <webchick> add1sun, so fixing the fricking FAPI docs is like my #0.000000001 priority. Especially with changes that've gone into D7 to make the entire page renderable in these same FAPI elements.
  105. Jul 10 14:25:30 <jhodgdon> I can't say DC really helped my employment prospects (economy bad and all that), but I'm employed about as much as I want to be anyway. :) If I were employed more, I would have less time to work on Drupal and Drupal Doc. :)
  106. Jul 10 14:25:37 <webchick> (I'm using the Drupal weights system, so 0.0000001 is higher than 1 ;))
  107. Jul 10 14:25:46 <add1sun> webchick, lol
  108. Jul 10 14:25:59 <jhodgdon> webchick: What would you like done to the FAPI doc?
  109. Jul 10 14:26:00 <add1sun> well webchick we can add that to the list of nice to get figured out shit
  110. Jul 10 14:26:04 <add1sun> for D7
  111. Jul 10 14:26:05 <webchick> add1sun, But I have yet to see any decent proposals for that.
  112. Jul 10 14:26:10 <add1sun> webchick, exactly
  113. Jul 10 14:26:13 <webchick> Yep. "Figure shit out ilst"
  114. Jul 10 14:26:14 <jhodgdon> I think the ref doc is pretty close to actual code at the moment.
  115. Jul 10 14:26:17 <add1sun> i can't prioritize it if there is no plan
  116. Jul 10 14:26:20 <webchick> Just add it to the top of the figure sht out list, please. :D
  117. Jul 10 14:26:28 <webchick> jhodgdon, It is not. :(
  118. Jul 10 14:26:36 <webchick> jhodgdon, I don't thik it was updated at all even once for D7 yet.
  119. Jul 10 14:26:42 <webchick> I could be wrong.
  120. Jul 10 14:26:46 <jhodgdon> Yes it has. I have been working on it for several weeks.
  121. Jul 10 14:26:51 <webchick> You.. you have/?!?!
  122. Jul 10 14:26:54 <jhodgdon> yes.
  123. Jul 10 14:26:54 <webchick> OMG*!&@*&(!&@
  124. Jul 10 14:27:00 * webchick gives jhodgdon the BIGGEST hug
  125. Jul 10 14:27:23 <jhodgdon> Fixed up D6 doc quite a bit too.
  126. Jul 10 14:27:26 <webchick> Ok I guess that's been off my radar then cos I don't have to commit anything. :)
  127. Jul 10 14:27:43 <webchick> So maybe we can lower priority to 0.5 then. ;)
  128. Jul 10 14:27:53 <add1sun> btw, if anyone wants to flesh out what an "API review" will be in spet
  129. Jul 10 14:27:55 <webchick> add1sun, So one thing I did need to say though is about UI docs.
  130. Jul 10 14:27:57 <add1sun> feel free to edit http://drupal.org/node/515870
  131. Jul 10 14:27:58 <add1sun> ;)
  132. Jul 10 14:28:00 <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/515870 => Drupal 7 documentation => 2 IRC mentions
  133. Jul 10 14:28:02 <jhodgdon> They're both pretty close. http://drupal.org/node/500120
  134. Jul 10 14:28:04 <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/500120 => Form API doc has multiple inconsistencies => Drupal, documentation, normal, fixed, 1 IRC mention
  135. Jul 10 14:28:35 <add1sun> webchick, UI docs, OK
  136. Jul 10 14:28:39 <webchick> Traditionally, a code freeze means that the APIs are frozen, but there's a good couple of months where "Usability Improvements" can still get in.
  137. Jul 10 14:28:42 <jhodgdon> add1sun: API review - find undocumented hooks. Make sure docs match functions.
  138. Jul 10 14:28:48 <jhodgdon> and that all functions have doc
  139. Jul 10 14:28:57 <webchick> The most extreme example was D6 which had drag and drop added in like one of the RCs I think. :P
  140. Jul 10 14:29:05 <add1sun> webchick, ayup ;)
  141. Jul 10 14:29:17 <webchick> I am going to do what I can to fight against that kind of crap, and I think Dries is on the same page.
  142. Jul 10 14:29:24 <jhodgdon> that makes it pretty difficult to write a Get Started guide
  143. Jul 10 14:29:27 <jhodgdon> before the release
  144. Jul 10 14:29:30 <webchick> But the fact remains that holding off taking lots of screenshots until the last possible minute would be A Good Thing.
  145. Jul 10 14:29:36 <LeeHunter> Is there a UI Freeze planned?
  146. Jul 10 14:29:40 <jhodgdon> even descriptions are hard, not just screen shots
  147. Jul 10 14:29:55 <add1sun> webchick, righto, well i plan to do lots of writing and screenshots as late as possible anyway
  148. Jul 10 14:29:55 <webchick> LeeHunter, not that I'm aware of. It's not something that's really had to come up before. But we could certainly see about starting one.
  149. Jul 10 14:29:57 <add1sun> so good point
  150. Jul 10 14:30:15 <webchick> LeeHunter, But I could see us putting a hard UI freeze at the same time as the string freeze, which is typically RC1.
  151. Jul 10 14:30:15 <add1sun> jhodgdon, well i believe it iterative docs
  152. Jul 10 14:30:19 <add1sun> just like code
  153. Jul 10 14:30:24 <add1sun> we can change it as we go
  154. Jul 10 14:30:33 <add1sun> cuz editing is easier than writing
  155. Jul 10 14:30:35 <jhodgdon> add1sun: sure, but someone needs to monitor how the code is evolving
  156. Jul 10 14:30:35 <webchick> add1sun, So this makes it challenging from the docs perspective, because we might still move things around a bit after code freeze.
  157. Jul 10 14:30:44 <add1sun> webchick, i know we will
  158. Jul 10 14:30:47 <drumm> code freeze + string freeze makes UI changes kinda hard
  159. Jul 10 14:30:51 <webchick> Right. Let's say "will" :)
  160. Jul 10 14:31:01 <webchick> drumm, Teaser splitter. :(
  161. Jul 10 14:31:02 <add1sun> and as a matter of fact i want us to start writing *now* before freeze
  162. Jul 10 14:31:20 <jhodgdon> when is string freeze?
  163. Jul 10 14:31:29 <webchick> jhodgdon, IIRC string freeze is at RC1.
  164. Jul 10 14:31:33 <webchick> When that is... remains to be seen.
  165. Jul 10 14:31:41 <webchick> It could be as early as November.
  166. Jul 10 14:31:50 <webchick> But I'm banking on more like Dec/Jan
  167. Jul 10 14:32:13 <webchick> Testing bot is grat and all, but there are still 301 critical issues
  168. Jul 10 14:32:23 <webchick> it's going to take some time to get that list down to 0
  169. Jul 10 14:32:34 <webchick> or much much closer to it
  170. Jul 10 14:32:42 <jhodgdon> Seems that the UI for D7 is going to be totally reorgnized for usability, and there's also the Fields thing, so until those have some definite shape, seems like starting writing is a bit pointless.
  171. Jul 10 14:33:14 <webchick> I kind of agree. But what I think you could start doing *now* is making your outline for what's in the Getting Started Guide.
  172. Jul 10 14:33:20 <add1sun> exactly
  173. Jul 10 14:33:24 <webchick> And 9/1 you could be doing some of the stuff we know is not going to change.
  174. Jul 10 14:33:24 <emmajane> writing is never pointless. blinding writing is.
  175. Jul 10 14:33:33 <add1sun> we need to start getitng it organized and then start fleshing ut
  176. Jul 10 14:33:34 <webchick> For example, either way you need to explain file permissions.
  177. Jul 10 14:33:41 <emmajane> s/blinding/blindly/
  178. Jul 10 14:33:42 <add1sun> things like upgrading aren't changing that dramoatically
  179. Jul 10 14:33:51 <jhodgdon> Yeah, that's true, some things are not changing.
  180. Jul 10 14:33:53 <jhodgdon> much.
  181. Jul 10 14:33:58 <webchick> Yep, upgrading, installation, etc. are not likely to change after 9/1.
  182. Jul 10 14:34:06 <webchick> Well. Hrm. There is plugin manager.
  183. Jul 10 14:34:10 <webchick> Anyway. ;)
  184. Jul 10 14:34:26 <webchick> The point is, if we know ahead of Paris what stuff we need the GSG to cover
  185. Jul 10 14:34:32 <add1sun> i still say that we should start writing now, against the unstbales
  186. Jul 10 14:34:34 <webchick> And have that really well fleshed out
  187. Jul 10 14:35:07 <emmajane> I've been picking away at the actual core docs as well. I've only got the one patch submitted but more is coming. see: http://drupal.org/node/484212
  188. Jul 10 14:35:09 <webchick> add1sun, My one worry about writing NOW now is that now is exactly the time when all of this D7UX work is getting in.
  189. Jul 10 14:35:10 <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/484212 => Add structure, and improve help text for comment module => Drupal, comment.module, normal, needs work, 1 IRC mention
  190. Jul 10 14:35:11 <jhodgdon> Thought: How about someone making a GSG outline, and then Webchick notating with which items are good to work on now, which are unstable/changing a lot?
  191. Jul 10 14:35:27 <webchick> So as long as you steer clear of the admin panels and stuff that should be ok, but there's actually quite a bit that's still very much in flux.
  192. Jul 10 14:35:30 <add1sun> webchick, again, there is a lot that isn't necessarily effected by UX
  193. Jul 10 14:35:39 <add1sun> and we can identify and start that
  194. Jul 10 14:35:50 <webchick> Sure. But just realize the scope of the stuff that is.
  195. Jul 10 14:35:59 <add1sun> webchick, sure
  196. Jul 10 14:36:00 <jhodgdon> I realize it's a large scope
  197. Jul 10 14:36:05 <webchick> Creating/editing content, navigating the site, administering anything, editing anything, etc.
  198. Jul 10 14:36:15 <jhodgdon> but as time goes on, the scope of "do later" should diminish
  199. Jul 10 14:36:16 <webchick> Ther's not a whole lot left of Drupal after that.
  200. Jul 10 14:36:37 <add1sun> webchick, well an explanantion of "what is the blog module and what does it do"
  201. Jul 10 14:36:44 <add1sun> is a conceptual thing more than UI
  202. Jul 10 14:36:45 <webchick> but that said, if you're planning on doing task-based documentation, the tasks could definitely get fleshed out, what information to cover duriing installation,e tc.
  203. Jul 10 14:36:48 <jhodgdon> How about this idea: Getting Started Guide is part of the D7 release. Make a critical issue to have a D7 getting started guide.
  204. Jul 10 14:36:51 <add1sun> we can tackle lots of concepts
  205. Jul 10 14:36:54 <webchick> add1sun, That's easy. "Blog module sucks"
  206. Jul 10 14:36:54 <jhodgdon> :)
  207. Jul 10 14:36:55 <add1sun> and then add UI
  208. Jul 10 14:36:56 <webchick> ta-da!
  209. Jul 10 14:37:20 <webchick> jhodgdon, I have floated that idea past Dries. He wasn't too keen on it. The first problem is that we're still stuck with the god-awful existing help system because I am a horrible person.
  210. Jul 10 14:37:22 <add1sun> webchick, well that's how *I'd* write it, but ya know.../
  211. Jul 10 14:37:37 <webchick> jhodgdon, So that means no things like multi-page help texts. No images. etc.
  212. Jul 10 14:37:47 <add1sun> jhodgdon, i think it is on the doc team's shoulders to make it critical
  213. Jul 10 14:37:54 <add1sun> not the the core queue per se
  214. Jul 10 14:38:06 <jhodgdon> it's on webchick/Dries to delay release until we have doc
  215. Jul 10 14:38:21 <webchick> jhodgdon, I'm not sure. If we'd done that for D6... :\
  216. Jul 10 14:38:25 <emmajane> webchick, I still don't think we need a *system* to improve the help text that's in core.
  217. Jul 10 14:38:35 <webchick> Did D6 *ever* get a completed GSG?
  218. Jul 10 14:38:44 <add1sun> webchick, uh
  219. Jul 10 14:38:48 <add1sun> sorta?
  220. Jul 10 14:38:52 <webchick> hah :)
  221. Jul 10 14:38:52 <jhodgdon> Well. It would have put more priority on getting one done.
  222. Jul 10 14:39:12 <webchick> I mean. I can try and put pressure in that direction if you want. But realize the consequences.
  223. Jul 10 14:39:12 <jhodgdon> A huge criticism of Drupal is that the doc sucks. Releasing D7 with sucky doc will not help erase that.
  224. Jul 10 14:39:13 <add1sun> jhodgdon, yeah basically this idea of docs being important is still kinda new to the community ;)
  225. Jul 10 14:39:17 <add1sun> so baby steps
  226. Jul 10 14:39:18 <emmajane> jhodgdon, I think it's up to the docs team to make it a priority...
  227. Jul 10 14:39:27 <add1sun> if we can actually get things to happen for D7
  228. Jul 10 14:39:29 <webchick> The people who want to hurry up and get D7 out are the devs who are tired of fixing bugs and want to do cool D8 stuff.
  229. Jul 10 14:39:37 <add1sun> we're in a better position to push for it in D8
  230. Jul 10 14:39:45 <webchick> So you will get a bunch of impatient devs in the docs queue saying "scrap that, who cares, etc." to your chapters.
  231. Jul 10 14:40:07 <jhodgdon> Releasing before 95% of contrib modules are ready is also pointless, in my opinion. I didn't do my first D6 site until MONTHS after D6 was "released", since you cant' do anything interesting in Drupal without contrib modules.
  232. Jul 10 14:40:10 <jhodgdon> (in my opinion)
  233. Jul 10 14:40:14 <jhodgdon> (perhaps heresy)
  234. Jul 10 14:40:25 <webchick> jhodgdon, It's a commonly held view. It's also chicken/egg.
  235. Jul 10 14:40:34 <add1sun> jhodgdon, indeed but holding up releases for a year due to docs and contrib isn';t nec the answer
  236. Jul 10 14:40:34 <webchick> jhodgdon, Until we release D7, most contrib modules won't bother porting.
  237. Jul 10 14:40:35 <jhodgdon> I realize.
  238. Jul 10 14:40:48 <webchick> jhodgdon, Because their clients won't want to move to it, so they wont' get paid to work on it.
  239. Jul 10 14:41:06 <webchick> And 95% of contrib modules aren't going to get ported without either years of time or financial backing
  240. Jul 10 14:41:11 <jhodgdon> Back to doc issue.
  241. Jul 10 14:41:12 <jhodgdon> :)
  242. Jul 10 14:41:17 <add1sun> ;)
  243. Jul 10 14:41:21 <webchick> But that said, we are working on tools to make porting modules easier, etc. So. :)
  244. Jul 10 14:41:25 <webchick> yes! Docs!
  245. Jul 10 14:41:39 <add1sun> ok well i guess having a GSG is the bovious priority
  246. Jul 10 14:41:45 <webchick> So yes. Core help can totaly be improved during code freeze, all the way to strong freeze.
  247. Jul 10 14:41:56 <add1sun> but what about the other handbooks?
  248. Jul 10 14:41:59 <jhodgdon> I think a "migrate your module to D7" guide is also essential, for the success of D7
  249. Jul 10 14:42:12 <jhodgdon> (if we want contrib modules to upgrade, that is)
  250. Jul 10 14:42:12 <webchick> We just acn't change the underlying help delivery mechanism unless we do it before Sept.
  251. Jul 10 14:42:17 <add1sun> jhodgdon, indded - i onclude that stuff with GSG
  252. Jul 10 14:42:25 <add1sun> oh no
  253. Jul 10 14:42:31 <jhodgdon> Need to have getting started *outside* of Drupal.
  254. Jul 10 14:42:36 <add1sun> sorry i didn't mean for the module upgrad as in code
  255. Jul 10 14:42:38 <jhodgdon> (you can't install Drupal to see it)
  256. Jul 10 14:42:42 <add1sun> i meant how to upgrade to D7
  257. Jul 10 14:42:59 <jhodgdon> OK
  258. Jul 10 14:43:07 <add1sun> jhodgdon, at least those docs are somewhat kept up
  259. Jul 10 14:43:09 <add1sun> but yea
  260. Jul 10 14:43:21 <jhodgdon> GSG: you listed install, basic config, core modules, upgrading (i.e. how to upgrade from D6 to D7, as a site admin)
  261. Jul 10 14:43:24 <add1sun> the update your code pages (module and theme)
  262. Jul 10 14:43:30 <add1sun> both need a thorough review as well
  263. Jul 10 14:43:33 <emmajane> webchick, Until we've got docs that tell us what we need the system to do (i.e. this would be so much easier if XYZ) I don't think help will change in core. there just isn't a good enough reason yet. but I think that makes it up to the docs team to figure out how docs will be best implemented/used/etc
  264. Jul 10 14:43:43 <webchick> emmajane, sure.
  265. Jul 10 14:43:51 * chrisshattuck (n=stompeer@67.41.45.14) has joined #drupal-docs
  266. Jul 10 14:43:56 <jhodgdon> I'm saying, yes, that the "how to take the module/theme you have written and migrate it to D7" is also a crucial piece of doc to get out the door ASAP
  267. Jul 10 14:44:47 <add1sun> jhodgdon, yeppers
  268. Jul 10 14:44:49 <add1sun> adding it now
  269. Jul 10 14:45:22 <emmajane> webchick, i.e. you're not allowed to beat yourself up over it anymore. ;)
  270. Jul 10 14:46:25 <jhodgdon> So that is another thing to add to the list: Review help texts within Drupal, not sure if part of Doc Team mandate or not
  271. Jul 10 14:46:37 <add1sun> jhodgdon, it should be
  272. Jul 10 14:46:46 <add1sun> it isn't historically but i want to change that
  273. Jul 10 14:46:56 <jhodgdon> add to list of D7 To Dos then?
  274. Jul 10 14:47:01 <add1sun> yes
  275. Jul 10 14:47:06 * benjamin-agaric has quit ()
  276. Jul 10 14:47:09 <jhodgdon> Anyway, there is nothing stopping us from reviewing, adding issues/patches
  277. Jul 10 14:47:09 <webchick> How about a "What's new in Drupal 7" doc?
  278. Jul 10 14:47:11 <jhodgdon> :)
  279. Jul 10 14:47:22 <add1sun> webchick, good point :)
  280. Jul 10 14:47:25 <webchick> That itemizes the developer, end user, and desiger-facing changes?
  281. Jul 10 14:47:36 <jhodgdon> webchick: Good idea, but could be different for different (echo echo echo)
  282. Jul 10 14:47:41 <jhodgdon> :)
  283. Jul 10 14:47:41 <emmajane> webchick, there already is one IIRC. I know I've added to one.
  284. Jul 10 14:47:47 <webchick> A lot of that could possbly be culled from the release notes at http://drupal.org/node/156281
  285. Jul 10 14:47:50 <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/156281 => Drupal 7.x-dev => 9 IRC mentions
  286. Jul 10 14:47:52 <webchick> emmajane, oh great!
  287. Jul 10 14:48:04 <emmajane> finding it is another matter...
  288. Jul 10 14:48:07 * emmajane looks.
  289. Jul 10 14:48:23 <tgeller> <--Gotta go lie down... food poisoning. :(
  290. Jul 10 14:48:54 <jhodgdon> tgeller: feel better!
  291. Jul 10 14:49:02 * tgeller has quit ()
  292. Jul 10 14:50:24 <add1sun> alright, so i kinda have http://drupal.org/node/515870
  293. Jul 10 14:50:27 <add1sun> so far
  294. Jul 10 14:50:27 <Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/515870 => Drupal 7 documentation => 3 IRC mentions
  295. Jul 10 14:51:01 <jhodgdon> Can I edit the API section?
  296. Jul 10 14:51:04 <jhodgdon> (now?)
  297. Jul 10 14:51:10 <add1sun> jhodgdon, sure
  298. Jul 10 14:51:17 <add1sun> i'm out of the doc now
  299. Jul 10 14:51:21 <jhodgdon> (didnt' want to edit if someone else was)
  300. Jul 10 14:51:37 <emmajane> webchick, enfin. This is what i was looking for:
  301. Jul 10 14:51:38 <emmajane> http://drupal.org/update/theme/6/7
  302. Jul 10 14:51:55 <webchick> emmajane, Oh. No, that is more of a "big litany of all of the crap you need to do to port your theme"
  303. Jul 10 14:52:01 <webchick> emmajane, I was talking more about a marketingish doc.
  304. Jul 10 14:52:05 <webchick> Or a user support doc
  305. Jul 10 14:52:08 <add1sun> emmajane, yah i've got that one listed
  306. Jul 10 14:52:12 <emmajane> webchick, yeah, but that's the doc I was thinking of.
  307. Jul 10 14:52:13 <webchick> That talks at a higher level than API-level changes
  308. Jul 10 14:52:16 <webchick> Ah, ok.
  309. Jul 10 14:52:22 <add1sun> she means a fron-facing happy bunnies page
  310. Jul 10 14:53:01 <emmajane> there's no way to list "all the pages i've edited" the way there's "my issues" is there?
  311. Jul 10 14:53:10 <add1sun> emmajane, no :(
  312. Jul 10 14:53:20 <emmajane> hrmph
  313. Jul 10 14:53:20 <add1sun> at least not currently
  314. Jul 10 14:53:28 <add1sun> until we make a view for that ;)
  315. Jul 10 14:53:37 <emmajane> views? we get views?! ;)
  316. Jul 10 14:54:08 <add1sun> shhhh, we already have views, but we just don't use them ;)
  317. Jul 10 14:54:17 <drumm> views is already running on d.o, for project queues
  318. Jul 10 14:54:18 <emmajane> heh
  319. Jul 10 14:54:38 <LeeHunter> views+flags would be sweet
  320. Jul 10 14:54:45 <add1sun> alright, well we've got about 5 minutes left
  321. Jul 10 14:54:57 <add1sun> feel free to talk on the mailing list
  322. Jul 10 14:55:06 <add1sun> and use that outline page to flesh things out
  323. Jul 10 14:55:21 <add1sun> i'll be doing a doodle for the next D7 doc meeting
  324. Jul 10 14:55:28 <add1sun> i'd like to meet every other week
  325. Jul 10 14:55:34 <add1sun> to keep it on our radar
  326. Jul 10 14:55:40 <emmajane> sounds good
  327. Jul 10 14:56:04 <jhodgdon> I'm editing the outline page for a bit...
  328. Jul 10 14:56:12 <add1sun> jhodgdon, awesome
  329. Jul 10 14:56:45 <add1sun> does anyone have anything i want to add or ask?
  330. Jul 10 14:56:53 <add1sun> s/i/they
  331. Jul 10 14:56:55 <add1sun> jeez
  332. Jul 10 14:56:57 <sillygwailo> when you're done, jhodgdon, I'd like to add handbook sections, for end-user docs (how to administer the site, add/edit content, manage users, etc.)
  333. Jul 10 14:57:38 <LeeHunter> I'm wondering where we're at with the doc IA structure, changes to the landing page etc. and how that will impact how we think about D7.
  334. Jul 10 14:57:46 <jhodgdon> I'll let you know. Few more minutes
  335. Jul 10 14:57:49 <LeeHunter> Maybe too big a question for the final 2.5 minutes
  336. Jul 10 14:58:12 <add1sun> LeeHunter, well the IA strusture stuff won't satrt to come together for a little while yet
  337. Jul 10 14:58:12 * mfer has quit ()
  338. Jul 10 14:58:34 <add1sun> basically as much as i'd love to have that done before we dive into D7
  339. Jul 10 14:58:39 <add1sun> i don't think we have time
  340. Jul 10 14:58:50 <add1sun> so we may need to rip out/ redo a bunch of D7 depending
  341. Jul 10 14:58:58 <LeeHunter> k
  342. Jul 10 14:59:03 <add1sun> i thikn we'll just need to see how things time out
  343. Jul 10 14:59:29 <jhodgdon> sillygwailo: all yours
  344. Jul 10 14:59:54 <add1sun> ok rock on folks!
  345. Jul 10 14:59:59 <add1sun> and thanks for showing up
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