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  1. Nov 20 13:03:18 <add1sun> Ok, let's roll folks
  2. Nov 20 13:03:31 <add1sun> start with announcements
  3. Nov 20 13:03:41 <add1sun> Leisa from MBD has a new post up re: docs redesign ideas
  4. Nov 20 13:03:41 <add1sun> http://www.disambiguity.com/drupalorg-redesign-a-strategy-for-the-documentation-section/
  5. Nov 20 13:04:03 <add1sun> and we can see it starting to play out
  6. Nov 20 13:04:03 <add1sun> The next iteration (#9) of the redesign just went up http://drupal.markboultondesign.com/iteration9/
  7. Nov 20 13:04:24 <add1sun> so check itout
  8. Nov 20 13:04:26 * Senpai (n=Senpai@99.172.90.214) has joined #drupal-docs
  9. Nov 20 13:04:49 <add1sun> also just an FYi that the FP post re: open editing is up
  10. Nov 20 13:04:57 <add1sun> so that task is done
  11. Nov 20 13:05:17 <add1sun> and last announcement
  12. Nov 20 13:05:19 <add1sun> we are testing out using an online colab tool called Diigo
  13. Nov 20 13:05:19 <add1sun> to see if this helps us hammer on issues directly in the handbook pages
  14. Nov 20 13:05:19 <add1sun> read more about that here http://drupal.org/node/332021
  15. Nov 20 13:05:39 <add1sun> hopefully a post to the mail list will follow
  16. Nov 20 13:06:15 <add1sun> anyone esle have anything to add to announcements before we head into the agenda?
  17. Nov 20 13:06:42 <add1sun> groovy
  18. Nov 20 13:06:46 <add1sun> ok AGENDA: http://groups.drupal.org/node/16719
  19. Nov 20 13:07:07 <add1sun> First thing up, new page holding pen:
  20. Nov 20 13:07:07 <add1sun> http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/documentation/2008-November/006351.html
  21. Nov 20 13:07:08 * highermath (n=higherma@pool-71-106-7-208.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #drupal-docs
  22. Nov 20 13:07:23 <add1sun> basically we've got +1s on this so I'd like to implement it
  23. Nov 20 13:07:43 <nearlythere> sounds like a good idea!
  24. Nov 20 13:07:46 <add1sun> i think it'll be a big help
  25. Nov 20 13:08:19 <add1sun> i'm going to create an issue on drupal.org customizations since this will take code to implement
  26. Nov 20 13:08:19 <add1sun> i'm going to create an issue on drupal.org customizations since this will take code to implement
  27. Nov 20 13:08:21 <add1sun> ugh
  28. Nov 20 13:08:28 <add1sun> sorry :p
  29. Nov 20 13:08:41 <esmerel> Sounds good to me
  30. Nov 20 13:08:49 <nearlythere> would be nice if 1) the creation stage is a draft stage so that approving it is simply publishing it
  31. Nov 20 13:08:50 <Shai_> +1
  32. Nov 20 13:08:52 <add1sun> so we'll need a patch made
  33. Nov 20 13:09:02 <nearlythere> and 2) if only docs team could see the draft stage
  34. Nov 20 13:09:09 <add1sun> nearlythere, well that gets into moderation queues
  35. Nov 20 13:09:11 <esmerel> I've noticed the rise in 'delete test page' issues:)
  36. Nov 20 13:09:17 <add1sun> and i really don't want to do that
  37. Nov 20 13:09:20 <add1sun> for 2 reasons
  38. Nov 20 13:09:32 <add1sun> 1) if it gets backed up people will be discourgaed
  39. Nov 20 13:09:37 * betz-- (n=betz@d54C27006.access.telenet.be) has joined #drupal-docs
  40. Nov 20 13:09:37 <add1sun> they can't work on it unpublished
  41. Nov 20 13:09:41 <add1sun> nor can anyone find it
  42. Nov 20 13:09:42 <nearlythere> when its in holding pen, then we have to know exactly where the submitter suggests it should be added.
  43. Nov 20 13:09:47 <nearlythere> ah okey.
  44. Nov 20 13:09:59 <add1sun> and 2) that requires moderation module
  45. Nov 20 13:10:08 <add1sun> and i dun wanna deal with that yet ;)
  46. Nov 20 13:10:20 <add1sun> but yeah the idea of a location suggestion ws raised too
  47. Nov 20 13:10:33 <add1sun> and i don't think there is an *easy* way to do that quickly
  48. Nov 20 13:10:38 <add1sun> but I will play with it
  49. Nov 20 13:11:00 <add1sun> def something we can consider in the redesign though
  50. Nov 20 13:11:05 <add1sun> if we can't do that now
  51. Nov 20 13:11:17 <nearlythere> okey
  52. Nov 20 13:11:18 <esmerel> hm. That sounds like something we might want to move to, but if we can't do it easily now then we should go with what we can do:)
  53. Nov 20 13:11:33 <Shai_> nearlythere: the site redesign folks found that most people get to docs via search -- document placement isn't ultimately that important.
  54. Nov 20 13:11:33 <add1sun> esmerel, my thoughts exactly
  55. Nov 20 13:11:59 <nearlythere> Shai_: ah true!
  56. Nov 20 13:12:09 <esmerel> Shai_: huh, that's interesting.
  57. Nov 20 13:12:22 <add1sun> hm, well some placement does matter
  58. Nov 20 13:12:28 <dereine> is it planed to use a autocompletion also fo docs searching?
  59. Nov 20 13:12:29 <LeeHunter> Maybe people get to doc through search because the placement is poor?
  60. Nov 20 13:12:33 <esmerel> I wonder if they looked at 'first time you want it' or 'fifteenth time you want it'
  61. Nov 20 13:12:53 <add1sun> dereine, i dunno
  62. Nov 20 13:13:02 <highermath> It could be that folks use search because things aren't where they expect them to be
  63. Nov 20 13:13:14 <add1sun> yep
  64. Nov 20 13:13:17 <esmerel> Because the first couple of times I want a doc, I might have to search for it. After that, I think I want to be able to follow a specific path, and logical groupings are the best
  65. Nov 20 13:13:17 <LeeHunter> And even if they get to a doc through search, they should still be show a coherent context for the page they're at
  66. Nov 20 13:13:28 <dereine> add1sun: i just read it for api
  67. Nov 20 13:13:44 <add1sun> dereine, yeah but the API is a bit different
  68. Nov 20 13:14:15 <add1sun> OK, so if folks are interested. PLEASE ead the redsign threads and check out the latest iteration
  69. Nov 20 13:14:16 <nearlythere> placement has a function of giving a page maing, in context as well. since a notion which is dependent on other concepts can't have all the related concepts contained in each page. - so you link to 'parent's and 'children'. heirarchy gives meaning.
  70. Nov 20 13:14:17 <dereine> sure but i think if the user writes "installation" and he will get 3 handbooks related to isntallation (on mac win and linux)
  71. Nov 20 13:14:19 <add1sun> and respond to those
  72. Nov 20 13:14:59 <Shai_> Are we on topic right now? Also, I think if we are going to continue it, we should take five minutes and all read the link that add1sun posted earlier: http://www.disambiguity.com/drupalorg-redesign-a-strategy-for-the-documentation-section/
  73. Nov 20 13:15:12 <add1sun> Shai_, we are off topic for this meeting
  74. Nov 20 13:15:14 * HansBKK (n=Miranda@ppp-58-8-204-243.revip2.asianet.co.th) has joined #drupal-docs
  75. Nov 20 13:15:14 <nearlythere> Shai_: yeah i am reading it and the comments.
  76. Nov 20 13:15:20 <add1sun> and the redesign is not on our agenda
  77. Nov 20 13:15:32 <add1sun> we've got a bunch of other stuff to cover
  78. Nov 20 13:15:40 <add1sun> so i'm going to continue
  79. Nov 20 13:15:41 <Shai_> I vote for moving on then :)
  80. Nov 20 13:15:42 <nearlythere> *nod*
  81. Nov 20 13:15:48 <HansBKK> hi
  82. Nov 20 13:15:55 <add1sun> hey HansBKK :)
  83. Nov 20 13:16:04 <add1sun> ok, next up
  84. Nov 20 13:16:10 <add1sun> let's talk New projects on radar:
  85. Nov 20 13:16:16 <Shai_> Welcome HansBKK
  86. Nov 20 13:16:21 <add1sun> * Getting started guide for D6 needs basic content completed
  87. Nov 20 13:16:21 <add1sun> * Reorganizing the theme guides
  88. Nov 20 13:16:21 <add1sun> * Reviewing/expanding the handbook style guide and creation of some basic templates
  89. Nov 20 13:16:29 <add1sun> we'll take these in turn
  90. Nov 20 13:16:51 <add1sun> so for the D6 GS guide
  91. Nov 20 13:16:52 <add1sun> we need to get the content in this thing filled out
  92. Nov 20 13:17:04 <add1sun> even if it means just copying stuff from the D5 guide and then updating
  93. Nov 20 13:17:15 <add1sun> now, i know we are having big discussions about orgainzing version stuff to reduce duplication
  94. Nov 20 13:17:18 <add1sun> but srsly
  95. Nov 20 13:17:27 <add1sun> in the meantime, people aren't getting the info they need.
  96. Nov 20 13:17:44 <add1sun> so i'd rather just get the stuff there and continue with org/version stuff in the background/later
  97. Nov 20 13:17:49 <esmerel> (And now that views and cck are out, people *are* going to seriously move) whee
  98. Nov 20 13:17:59 <add1sun> hehe
  99. Nov 20 13:18:13 * joachim_ has quit ()
  100. Nov 20 13:18:13 <add1sun> so i mean really we need to look at the D6 GS guide
  101. Nov 20 13:18:19 <add1sun> see what still is missing
  102. Nov 20 13:18:23 <add1sun> and actually fill it in
  103. Nov 20 13:18:32 <add1sun> using the D5 guide as a, well, guide :)
  104. Nov 20 13:18:45 <Shai_> I'll volunteer to put some energy into the getting started stuff -- it is a definite interest of mine.
  105. Nov 20 13:18:52 <add1sun> awesome
  106. Nov 20 13:19:02 <add1sun> also should we do an online getting started guide sprint(s) to help people organize on this task?
  107. Nov 20 13:19:05 <esmerel> I should have before - then I started whacking at panels tutorial pages
  108. Nov 20 13:19:07 <add1sun> would that be useful?
  109. Nov 20 13:19:33 <nearlythere> add1sun: as in face to face , in-person sprint?
  110. Nov 20 13:19:39 <Shai_> Yes -- I think so -- especially if there were a clear agenda, with links, in advance.
  111. Nov 20 13:19:41 <add1sun> nearlythere, no
  112. Nov 20 13:19:47 <add1sun> it would have to be virtual - online
  113. Nov 20 13:19:49 <dereine> gollaborative handbook writing?
  114. Nov 20 13:19:49 <HansBKK> So why not make it generic, and move the stuff that doesn't apply to D6 to D5-labeled sub-pages?
  115. Nov 20 13:19:54 <add1sun> like IRC
  116. Nov 20 13:20:28 <add1sun> HansBKK, because i really wnt this done like two months ago
  117. Nov 20 13:20:43 <add1sun> and i don't want to mess up the correlation between the HTML and PDF guide for 5 yet
  118. Nov 20 13:20:52 * DaleM (n=dale@S0106002078c5b24f.vn.shawcable.net) has joined #drupal-docs
  119. Nov 20 13:21:02 <HansBKK> I see
  120. Nov 20 13:21:24 <add1sun> the GS guide is a little stickier due to the legacy attempt to make version-specific guides
  121. Nov 20 13:21:50 <add1sun> also, i do plan to have versioned (like really in CVS versioned) guides
  122. Nov 20 13:21:54 * shannonlucas (n=shannonl@adsl-75-54-92-109.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) has left #drupal-docs
  123. Nov 20 13:22:00 <add1sun> for each version of Drupal
  124. Nov 20 13:22:14 <add1sun> and i thikn all of that is going to require more thought
  125. Nov 20 13:22:19 <add1sun> to plan and organize
  126. Nov 20 13:22:32 <add1sun> than we can wait to simply give people the info they need *right now*
  127. Nov 20 13:22:54 <add1sun> so yeah i am sacrificing some long term sense
  128. Nov 20 13:22:59 <add1sun> for immediate problem solving
  129. Nov 20 13:23:02 <add1sun> and I'm aware of that
  130. Nov 20 13:23:09 <esmerel> oonooooes
  131. Nov 20 13:23:22 <Shai_> add1sun: were you thinking of using that diigo collaboration tool for this work?
  132. Nov 20 13:23:33 <add1sun> Shai_, for GS? no
  133. Nov 20 13:23:38 <Shai_> I like immediate problem solving.
  134. Nov 20 13:23:46 <add1sun> basically i was thinking we jsut go in there
  135. Nov 20 13:23:52 <highermath> I think that this would happen faster if we get a few volunteers (in) and one person steps up and assigns tasks.
  136. Nov 20 13:23:52 <add1sun> look at the D5 guide
  137. Nov 20 13:23:53 <dereine> why not add link from each d5 handbook to the according d6 handbook
  138. Nov 20 13:23:57 <add1sun> and see if the D6 guide has those pages
  139. Nov 20 13:24:04 <add1sun> if not, add them
  140. Nov 20 13:24:12 <add1sun> and update all of the text on the D6 guide
  141. Nov 20 13:24:17 <add1sun> so it matches D6
  142. Nov 20 13:24:32 <add1sun> really not very complex, more grunt work than anythnig
  143. Nov 20 13:24:55 <add1sun> the diigo tool is being tested on our next project - which we'll get to in a minute
  144. Nov 20 13:25:12 <Shai_> Do you know roughly how many pages we are talking about?
  145. Nov 20 13:25:29 <add1sun> Shai_, no idea
  146. Nov 20 13:25:37 <add1sun> a bunch has been moved over
  147. Nov 20 13:25:43 <add1sun> but i don't know how much
  148. Nov 20 13:26:10 <nearlythere> the GS for v5 is 59 pp long including screenshots
  149. Nov 20 13:26:18 <esmerel> oi
  150. Nov 20 13:26:20 <nearlythere> that is printed pags
  151. Nov 20 13:26:24 <nearlythere> not alot!
  152. Nov 20 13:26:33 <add1sun> no, that's not much at all
  153. Nov 20 13:26:43 <nearlythere> first 5 pp is index
  154. Nov 20 13:27:01 <nearlythere> lots of screenshottage
  155. Nov 20 13:27:14 <add1sun> and hopefully we can reuse a bunch of screenshots
  156. Nov 20 13:27:57 <Shai_> So how should we proceed?
  157. Nov 20 13:28:23 <add1sun> well, let's send an email to the list
  158. Nov 20 13:28:34 <add1sun> explaining what the task is
  159. Nov 20 13:28:41 <add1sun> and make an issue in the queue
  160. Nov 20 13:29:15 <add1sun> maybe if people take on a "section" and jsut report to the queue when they have completed x section?
  161. Nov 20 13:29:49 <nearlythere> may i suggest that tackling the d6 version using the printed version as a guide is easy, since you can say "Mr. Schmo is doing from ppX-Y"
  162. Nov 20 13:29:51 <add1sun> there are 4 sections in the d5 guide
  163. Nov 20 13:29:51 <add1sun> http://drupal.org/getting-started/5
  164. Nov 20 13:30:01 <nearlythere> (from printed d5 version as a guide that is)
  165. Nov 20 13:30:14 * siliconmeadow looks round for Mr Schmo
  166. Nov 20 13:30:18 <add1sun> hehe
  167. Nov 20 13:30:27 * nearlythere is now known as mrschmo
  168. Nov 20 13:30:35 * mrschmo waves to siliconmeadow
  169. Nov 20 13:30:55 <add1sun> mrschmo, if the pages in the PDf correspond in a clear way
  170. Nov 20 13:31:04 * siliconmeadow waves back but didn't meant to break the flow
  171. Nov 20 13:31:04 <add1sun> to the HTML pages on d.o
  172. Nov 20 13:31:25 <add1sun> i'm not sure that they do
  173. Nov 20 13:31:28 <mrschmo> newp... headers don't break on new pages, poo
  174. Nov 20 13:31:34 <esmerel> I don't think they do, no.
  175. Nov 20 13:31:36 <add1sun> yeah :/
  176. Nov 20 13:31:40 <esmerel> I know the CCK book doesn't
  177. Nov 20 13:32:13 <mrschmo> well.. it's nice in the Table of Contents you can copy and paste the entire list of topics so we can scratch them off the list?
  178. Nov 20 13:32:27 <add1sun> so maybe more like Mr Schmo is doing Install Drupal > Download through Run the install script
  179. Nov 20 13:32:33 <add1sun> http://drupal.org/getting-started/5/install
  180. Nov 20 13:32:49 <add1sun> ah mrschmo that would prolly work
  181. Nov 20 13:33:03 * mrschmo is now known as heatherj
  182. Nov 20 13:33:25 <add1sun> ok, so this is a little OT but i want to take 5 minutes to hear what folks say
  183. Nov 20 13:33:29 <add1sun> then we will move on
  184. Nov 20 13:33:32 <add1sun> SOoo
  185. Nov 20 13:33:44 <add1sun> I get frustrated that we can't fully utilize g.d.o
  186. Nov 20 13:33:46 <add1sun> like for this
  187. Nov 20 13:33:52 <add1sun> a wiki page would be ideal
  188. Nov 20 13:34:06 <add1sun> so i am *really* tempted
  189. Nov 20 13:34:11 <add1sun> to depracte the mail list
  190. Nov 20 13:34:15 <add1sun> and only use g.d.o
  191. Nov 20 13:34:19 <add1sun> for doc convos anymore
  192. Nov 20 13:34:19 <Shai_> why can't we open the docs group at g.d.o?
  193. Nov 20 13:34:32 <add1sun> Shai_, beacuse of the mail list
  194. Nov 20 13:34:32 <Shai_> +1
  195. Nov 20 13:34:45 <add1sun> we can't have convos happening in two places
  196. Nov 20 13:34:55 <add1sun> but i think g.d.o gives us more advantages
  197. Nov 20 13:34:58 <add1sun> than the mail list
  198. Nov 20 13:35:12 <add1sun> the mail list's major + is that you can respond form email
  199. Nov 20 13:35:15 <Shai_> Nice thing about g.d.o is you can get notified by email.... and it has much better tools to work with.
  200. Nov 20 13:35:18 <add1sun> and on g.d.o you have to go to the site
  201. Nov 20 13:35:36 <siliconmeadow> g.d.o you can do images, diagrams, etc
  202. Nov 20 13:35:42 <highermath> I don't suppose we could use mailhandler/listhandler and connect the too, could we?
  203. Nov 20 13:35:43 <HansBKK> I prefer my bike shed pink
  204. Nov 20 13:35:44 <add1sun> so, breifly, (other than Shai_ ;)) are people + or - on this idea?
  205. Nov 20 13:35:46 <Shai_> I spend all day on the web --- doesn't everybody else?
  206. Nov 20 13:35:55 <siliconmeadow> +1
  207. Nov 20 13:36:04 <add1sun> highermath, that requires infra work and so i'd say no
  208. Nov 20 13:36:18 <heatherj> i was just looking fr some online tool where we could share a to do list, and DUH we have one - the wiki feature at g.d.o
  209. Nov 20 13:36:20 <Michelle> Just peeking in a moment but I'm fine with g.d.o. I forget the docs mailing list exists and I'm on g.d.o all the time
  210. Nov 20 13:36:32 <highermath> too bad, it is amazing how well that works
  211. Nov 20 13:36:33 <dereine> highermath: there was a module which did this but it was, i think only for 4.6
  212. Nov 20 13:36:43 <LeeHunter> My job site blocks personal mail (and IRC) but g.d.o works fine.
  213. Nov 20 13:36:56 <heatherj> with subcriptions the emails get broadcast anyway.
  214. Nov 20 13:37:10 <add1sun> yep, the *only* thing we lose is repsonding by mail
  215. Nov 20 13:37:10 <HansBKK> There's always the issue queue too
  216. Nov 20 13:37:13 <heatherj> also should make docs team process more transparent
  217. Nov 20 13:37:17 <add1sun> and frankly i think that's fine for all we gain
  218. Nov 20 13:37:39 <heatherj> yeah, i think a wiki is essential for the re-write process.
  219. Nov 20 13:37:46 <add1sun> agreed
  220. Nov 20 13:37:47 <HansBKK> Let's not add another, if we go with GDO then lose the list
  221. Nov 20 13:37:54 <add1sun> HansBKK, yes, that is plan
  222. Nov 20 13:37:58 <add1sun> we can't use both
  223. Nov 20 13:38:00 <HansBKK> +1
  224. Nov 20 13:38:07 <siliconmeadow> could we do a collection to put up a bounty for doing the gdo+maillist integration?
  225. Nov 20 13:38:20 <add1sun> siliconmeadow, well i don't know that it is a money thing
  226. Nov 20 13:38:22 <siliconmeadow> if you know what I mean?
  227. Nov 20 13:38:31 <add1sun> it is a "convince moshe that it is worht it"
  228. Nov 20 13:38:45 <siliconmeadow> are we reliant only on moshe to do it?
  229. Nov 20 13:38:54 <add1sun> and then does he have time to test and implement?
  230. Nov 20 13:39:03 <add1sun> siliconmeadow, all things g.d.o go through moshe
  231. Nov 20 13:39:11 <add1sun> he is the webnaster for that site
  232. Nov 20 13:39:11 <siliconmeadow> maybe all groups could make use of it
  233. Nov 20 13:39:38 <add1sun> siliconmeadow, we can appraoch moshe and see what he says
  234. Nov 20 13:39:47 <Shai_> I have a different concern than the mailhandler issue.... If you change a wiki page at g.d.o. will it notify you?
  235. Nov 20 13:39:59 <Michelle> g.d.o is OG so if someone writes the code to make it interface with OG then everyone using OG wins and you're more likely to get a bounty filled
  236. Nov 20 13:40:15 <highermath> mailhandler is out for 6 and listhandler is getting close -- those are all we need
  237. Nov 20 13:40:16 <DaleM> GDO will notify you, but there is no diff, so very little idea of what may have changed
  238. Nov 20 13:40:17 <add1sun> well AFAIK the code exists
  239. Nov 20 13:40:23 <heatherj> Shai_: no, it doesn't notify you of each change on the wiki via email
  240. Nov 20 13:40:41 <add1sun> it just needs updating and implementation
  241. Nov 20 13:40:50 <heatherj> DaleM: does it notify you of each wiki change?
  242. Nov 20 13:40:57 <siliconmeadow> i've had discussions at two different user groups with people wanting that with their own sites
  243. Nov 20 13:41:05 <siliconmeadow> unprompted
  244. Nov 20 13:41:17 <DaleM> I thought it did, but I can't swear to it. I unsubbed from many because of frustration
  245. Nov 20 13:41:18 <Shai_> heatherj and all: that is a big problem imho -- I've seen wikis totally lose energy because of this problem.
  246. Nov 20 13:41:19 <add1sun> hm, OK we've spent more time on this - let's take this to the list
  247. Nov 20 13:41:30 <add1sun> i just wanted a basic "pulse"
  248. Nov 20 13:41:41 <add1sun> i will post this on the list and on the g.d.o
  249. Nov 20 13:41:50 <add1sun> to solicit feedback
  250. Nov 20 13:41:56 <add1sun> and we'll proceed from there
  251. Nov 20 13:42:15 * add1sun adds that to her todo
  252. Nov 20 13:42:33 <add1sun> OK, we've got 20 minutes ot finish this up so NEXT up
  253. Nov 20 13:42:40 <heatherj> Shai_: but the entire group would not consist only of wiki pages, there are threaded discussions which are broadcast (and there are coments on wiki pages, at the bottom that get broadcast, so attention could be rboguht ot a page in progress)
  254. Nov 20 13:42:56 <add1sun> theme guide reorg, main issue: http://groups.drupal.org/node/16594
  255. Nov 20 13:43:08 <Shai_> heatherj: true
  256. Nov 20 13:43:16 <add1sun> HansBKK, has taken the lead on getting the theme guides somewhat sane
  257. Nov 20 13:43:36 <Shai_> clapping
  258. Nov 20 13:43:37 <add1sun> I will do the top-level book wrangling and then the theme docs working group/team will do what needs to be done
  259. Nov 20 13:43:46 <Shai_> as in applause
  260. Nov 20 13:43:51 <add1sun> so that means that HansBKK could use some help ;)
  261. Nov 20 13:44:02 <add1sun> there are a few folks in the issue queue
  262. Nov 20 13:44:10 <add1sun> but we should announce this on the list and g.d.o
  263. Nov 20 13:44:22 <add1sun> to form up a theme guide "group"
  264. Nov 20 13:44:42 <add1sun> HansBKK, if it's Ok with you
  265. Nov 20 13:44:47 <add1sun> i'll keep apprised
  266. Nov 20 13:44:57 <add1sun> but if folks have questions can i direct them to you?
  267. Nov 20 13:45:09 <heatherj> the idea that having a sub-group ZERG a task would push change through quicker, and make clear recommendations before going in and overhauling.
  268. Nov 20 13:45:38 <HansBKK> ok ok ok ok ok ok
  269. Nov 20 13:45:41 <add1sun> oh and this is what we are playing with Diigo for as well
  270. Nov 20 13:45:54 <add1sun> :)
  271. Nov 20 13:46:35 <heatherj> should we put a time frame on it?
  272. Nov 20 13:46:53 <siliconmeadow> anyone confused by diigo, btw?
  273. Nov 20 13:46:56 <add1sun> sure, that may help focus efforts
  274. Nov 20 13:47:02 <HansBKK> Current members on Diigo: Heather - (mrschmo/nearlythere) - Addi (add1sun) - Richard (siliconmeadow) - Hans (hansbkk) - Lee (leehunter) - Wolf (a much chastened wolfflow)
  275. Nov 20 13:47:20 <add1sun> hehe
  276. Nov 20 13:47:29 <siliconmeadow> i can help outside this, if you've got questions
  277. Nov 20 13:47:32 <add1sun> siliconmeadow, i haven't actually used it yet myself
  278. Nov 20 13:47:35 <add1sun> jsut joined :)
  279. Nov 20 13:47:46 <HansBKK> Need to add a FF ext - go to head of D6 theme guide and you'll see some sticky notes and highlights
  280. Nov 20 13:48:17 <LeeHunter> You can also use a bookmarklet (my job site doesn't allow real software)
  281. Nov 20 13:48:29 <HansBKK> just play for now, basically add sticky notes to pages, highlight text then add a sticky to that
  282. Nov 20 13:48:42 <HansBKK> Lee - portable Firefox on a USB stick
  283. Nov 20 13:48:53 <LeeHunter> :)
  284. Nov 20 13:48:56 <add1sun> heatherj, HansBKK any thoughts on a timeframe?
  285. Nov 20 13:49:06 * ipwa has quit ()
  286. Nov 20 13:49:40 <HansBKK> Depends how many * how active / how many pages and what is "done" anyway?
  287. Nov 20 13:49:44 <HansBKK> = no clue
  288. Nov 20 13:49:55 <HansBKK> (how many people)
  289. Nov 20 13:50:03 <add1sun> hehe, well how about
  290. Nov 20 13:50:13 * esmerel hasn't seen diigo at all
  291. Nov 20 13:50:13 <add1sun> we set a "check in"
  292. Nov 20 13:50:14 <HansBKK> But ongoing incremental progress in a forward direction = a good thing
  293. Nov 20 13:50:25 <add1sun> or regular check-ins
  294. Nov 20 13:50:34 <add1sun> so like in one week a status report
  295. Nov 20 13:50:39 <add1sun> that says where the project is
  296. Nov 20 13:50:43 <add1sun> and what is left to do
  297. Nov 20 13:50:48 <heatherj> first we're coming up with recommendations; second we're getting consensus, the last task is implementing changes.
  298. Nov 20 13:50:50 <HansBKK> anyone wanting to check out Diigo, sign up with them first then come here http://groups.diigo.com/groups/drupal_docs and request
  299. Nov 20 13:50:50 <add1sun> or every other week or whatever
  300. Nov 20 13:51:02 <HansBKK> open to all docs team members
  301. Nov 20 13:51:05 <add1sun> that may help keep it on folks radar
  302. Nov 20 13:51:16 <siliconmeadow> http://www.diigo.com
  303. Nov 20 13:51:32 <HansBKK> guideline - only post d.o. links to the drupal-docs group, and for now limited to theming stuff
  304. Nov 20 13:51:34 * esmerel gets a second browser window with all the docs links she needs to read:)
  305. Nov 20 13:51:37 <heatherj> i like the idea of working together over next two weeks and coming back to report on initial findings/recommendations- and letting people give feedback on that.
  306. Nov 20 13:51:51 <add1sun> ok, cool
  307. Nov 20 13:52:12 <LeeHunter> Can we go ahead on collating the theming stuff in one location or should it wait?
  308. Nov 20 13:52:20 <Shai_> sounds good.
  309. Nov 20 13:52:20 <add1sun> heatherj, HansBKK, LeeHunter anyone else.... could you write upa post to the list about the group
  310. Nov 20 13:52:25 <heatherj> whether we need to go back and rethink, or how close we are to consensus will say what we do next.
  311. Nov 20 13:52:26 <add1sun> and the two week thingy?
  312. Nov 20 13:52:41 <add1sun> LeeHunter, i'm going to do the really top-level stuff now-ish
  313. Nov 20 13:52:45 <add1sun> realistially this weekend
  314. Nov 20 13:52:56 <HansBKK> as in stage - get everything re theming in one book
  315. Nov 20 13:53:03 <HansBKK> Going ahead Addi?
  316. Nov 20 13:53:04 <add1sun> yep
  317. Nov 20 13:53:05 <LeeHunter> @add1sun Excellent!
  318. Nov 20 13:53:13 <HansBKK> weeeeee
  319. Nov 20 13:53:16 <heatherj> lol
  320. Nov 20 13:53:21 <add1sun> :)
  321. Nov 20 13:53:35 <add1sun> oh!
  322. Nov 20 13:53:55 <add1sun> also if someone could write up a "Heads-up: we're rearranging again" post
  323. Nov 20 13:54:03 <add1sun> that we can put on the FP od d.o
  324. Nov 20 13:54:07 <add1sun> that would be great
  325. Nov 20 13:54:12 <add1sun> i'd like to keep users informed
  326. Nov 20 13:54:23 <heatherj> lee? hans?
  327. Nov 20 13:54:37 <HansBKK> yes yes
  328. Nov 20 13:54:39 <HansBKK> battery low running downstairs
  329. Nov 20 13:54:41 <add1sun> i hate it when the site shifts and no one warned me
  330. Nov 20 13:54:49 <add1sun> ok, awesome
  331. Nov 20 13:55:02 <add1sun> we're running out of time
  332. Nov 20 13:55:12 <add1sun> so i'll hit the last project issue
  333. Nov 20 13:55:20 <add1sun> which is the handbook style guide
  334. Nov 20 13:55:31 <add1sun> we really need to have that reviewed, expnaded - whatver
  335. Nov 20 13:55:43 <add1sun> so that we have a solid, current guide
  336. Nov 20 13:55:48 <add1sun> that we can point folks to
  337. Nov 20 13:56:09 <add1sun> i'd like us to have a style guide for handbook pages
  338. Nov 20 13:56:29 <add1sun> and also work on adding style guide for project help files (like INSTALL.txt and README.txt)
  339. Nov 20 13:56:30 <heatherj> http://drupal.org/about/authoring
  340. Nov 20 13:56:58 <HansBKK> In the meantime let's use the styleguide we already have
  341. Nov 20 13:57:10 <heatherj> add1sun: is i that one you're talking about?
  342. Nov 20 13:57:12 <add1sun> so if anyone is interested in helping with that or taking that on
  343. Nov 20 13:57:18 <add1sun> heatherj, yep
  344. Nov 20 13:57:46 <siliconmeadow> is it to be divided up, or what?
  345. Nov 20 13:57:53 <add1sun> i am not very familiar with syle guides
  346. Nov 20 13:58:04 <add1sun> so i'm looking for advice/help from the team
  347. Nov 20 13:58:05 <siliconmeadow> reviewed, expanded, simplified?
  348. Nov 20 13:58:32 <add1sun> siliconmeadow, mainly i want it reviewed to make sure all of those things make sense/are what we want
  349. Nov 20 13:58:43 <add1sun> like i know the headline guide was a bit outdated for our suee
  350. Nov 20 13:58:46 <add1sun> use
  351. Nov 20 13:58:46 <siliconmeadow> ok, i've been through it a couple of times to make sure I was doing what was expected of me
  352. Nov 20 13:59:12 <add1sun> and then if we could even have some sample templates
  353. Nov 20 13:59:14 <siliconmeadow> i'll look at it from the point of view of what I think would give good guidance
  354. Nov 20 13:59:17 <LeeHunter> Perhaps the writer's guide and style guide should be consolidated. Not many people will understand the difference.
  355. Nov 20 13:59:19 <add1sun> like an how to page
  356. Nov 20 13:59:26 <HansBKK> back
  357. Nov 20 13:59:33 <add1sun> LeeHunter, agreed
  358. Nov 20 14:00:00 <HansBKK> Lee +1 one "meta" place for docs team
  359. Nov 20 14:00:01 <add1sun> one place that says this is how we do stuff here
  360. Nov 20 14:00:40 <add1sun> OK, so anyway that is on radar
  361. Nov 20 14:01:00 <LeeHunter> Maybe a Writer's Guide that has a page for structure (how stuff is organized) and style (how stuff is written)
  362. Nov 20 14:01:02 <siliconmeadow> HansBKK: "meta" place?
  363. Nov 20 14:01:11 <HansBKK> what add1sun said
  364. Nov 20 14:01:18 <HansBKK> about us
  365. Nov 20 14:01:29 <add1sun> LeeHunter, that makes sense
  366. Nov 20 14:01:29 <HansBKK> as opposed to actual content
  367. Nov 20 14:01:48 <heatherj> is that not enclosed somewhere in : http://drupal.org/contribute/documentation
  368. Nov 20 14:01:57 <HansBKK> Lee's our meta-man!
  369. Nov 20 14:02:10 <Shai_> LeeHunter: "how stuff is organized" -- you mean on a given page, or in the handbook in general?
  370. Nov 20 14:02:10 <HansBKK> got the urge to merge. . .
  371. Nov 20 14:02:33 <add1sun> hehe
  372. Nov 20 14:02:38 <HansBKK> deal with both
  373. Nov 20 14:02:39 <LeeHunter> Shai_: possibly both.
  374. Nov 20 14:03:06 <HansBKK> consolidate - fewer pages more focussed = a good thing
  375. Nov 20 14:03:15 <add1sun> anyone want to make an issue in the queue for this one?
  376. Nov 20 14:03:20 <Shai_> For now I think we should focus on a given handbook page since the site re-design might have an impact on organization.
  377. Nov 20 14:03:42 <HansBKK> Shai clarify?
  378. Nov 20 14:04:11 <heatherj> HansBKK: linked earlier maybe you had not logged in yet? http://www.disambiguity.com/drupalorg-redesign-a-strategy-for-the-documentation-section/
  379. Nov 20 14:04:23 <add1sun> HansBKK, i think he is saying
  380. Nov 20 14:04:30 * ipwa (n=ipwa@78-86-157-48.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #drupal-docs
  381. Nov 20 14:04:32 <Shai_> In terms of a "style guide" -- I think we should focus on the style of an individual article --- not try to set a standard, now at least, for how that page fits into a larger structure.
  382. Nov 20 14:04:36 <add1sun> that we should focus writing about how a page is organized
  383. Nov 20 14:04:44 <add1sun> rather than overall site/book structure for now
  384. Nov 20 14:04:48 <add1sun> in our docs
  385. Nov 20 14:04:57 <add1sun> since the overall stuff may/will change
  386. Nov 20 14:05:10 <Shai_> Yah -- what add1sun said :)
  387. Nov 20 14:05:41 <add1sun> Ok, folks I can stick around for much longer
  388. Nov 20 14:05:47 <add1sun> s/can/can't
  389. Nov 20 14:05:57 <add1sun> but good meeting!
  390. Nov 20 14:06:05 <add1sun> thanks to everyone
  391.  
  392.  
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