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Myra

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Oct 21st, 2014
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  1. [3:04:29 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: I had to find Epi's epilogue today again. The one where Epi and Cyma discuss the end of his story.
  2. [3:04:38 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: And it put a thought in me:
  3. [3:05:38 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: K'b had given Epi a choice. He could repudiate Cyma and go on as best he could. Or he could weasel out using the technical meaning of the word "love".
  4. [3:06:08 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: This was not an explicit choice and I did not know it was presented to him as I first wrote it, but hindsight.
  5. [3:07:18 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: And... you know how Epi has this big speech about Life Without Integrity and how you end up making an irreversible choice early on to choose between your integrity and your life? The sentiment Myra echoes in the brainwashing FAQ?
  6. [3:07:28 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: It's not irreversible.
  7. [3:08:02 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: He couldn't see himself as a person who could survive not being so tightly bonded with Cyma. And so he chose integrity.
  8. [3:08:56 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: He /could/ go back. He could become an idealist again, even if only for a little while and under worse consequences.
  9. [3:09:06 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: It makes me proud of him. It gives me hope for myself.
  10. [6:16:28 AM] Zuki: [4:07:40 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: It's not irreversible.
  11.  
  12. <<< That is, if you choose Life, you can still later choose Integrity?
  13. [6:16:39 AM] Zuki: And that the choice of Integrity must be (for some people, at least.) continually re-selected?
  14. [11:19:59 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: Zuki: That is, if you choose Life, you can still later choose Integrity? <-- yes
  15. [11:21:42 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: Mind is all about those choices and their consequences
  16. [11:22:27 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: But it's the trauma speaking when they talk of no longer being able to do anything idealistic ever.
  17. [11:22:45 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: They /can/ and they /do/.
  18. [11:24:18 AM] Zuki: In a weird and fucking messed up way, Myra's 'death' was more about choosing Life than it was about Integrity.
  19. [11:24:33 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: Oh?
  20. [11:25:18 AM] Zuki: I'm thinking about the ultimate consequences, that Myra's ego or knowledge lived on in Dawn and 'Cho, and that it was a weaselling out of the consequences of her death.
  21. [11:25:35 AM] Zuki: Integrity wouldn't have chosen to traumatize a group of kids like that.
  22. [11:25:56 AM] Zuki: Granted, I've always tried to assume that she was working with incomplete information.
  23. [11:26:49 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: She fucking /groomed/ 'Cho is what she did.
  24. [11:28:15 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: But... well. In a fucked up way her ego was big enough that she thought her memories were irreplaceable treasures.
  25. [11:29:14 AM] Zuki: [12:27:01 PM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: She fucking /groomed/ 'Cho is what she did.
  26.  
  27. <<< Y'know, I think this is the most fucked up thing I've written a character doing.
  28. [11:29:34 AM] Zuki: (I guess you could say it was about choosing Ego over Integrity, instead.)
  29. [11:29:45 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: (Perhaps.)
  30. [11:30:05 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: (Depends on how you define Integrity, I guess.)
  31. [11:30:51 AM] Zuki: ('acting in a way mindful of the responsibilities an older and more experienced replayer has towards youths and new players,')
  32. [11:31:05 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: Myra was under the impression that she was forever barred from Integrity, shut out of the Garden of Eden, etc. by no fault of her own at an early age.
  33. [11:31:35 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: And yet she put her ego and her pessimism aside long enough for Sburb.org.
  34. [11:32:07 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: And yet she still pursued mentorships of younger kids.
  35. [11:33:14 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: She could not see these as good things, as Integrity things. She felt they were the trauma talking. She shouldered them like obligations.
  36. [11:33:54 AM] * Zuki nods.
  37. [11:34:41 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: They gave her small pleasures and satisfaction but were never recognized as what they should have been: footholds on which to build a new and less victimized identity.
  38. [11:35:41 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: Maybe that is what the Bubbles let her figure out, after several decades or centuries of hindsight.
  39. [11:37:48 AM] Zuki: I'm imagining a ghostly Myra--alone, would she gravitate towards positive or negative memories and experiences? Imagine the way a memory might suddenly shift in tone and context given the additional perspective of another ghost.
  40. [11:39:41 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: The bubbles are like dreams. At first it would just replay critical traumas. But as the years go on it starts letting in the positives as well, slowly.
  41. [11:40:33 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: It could take decades for her to be /ready/ for a visitor, and not just instinctively chase them down.
  42. [11:42:21 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: And I'm betting the first visitor would have been a conative of hers. As it is for many people.
  43. [11:43:13 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: I suspect it was Stan.
  44. [11:48:03 AM] Elaine "OJ" Wang: I wonder if Ish would appreciate this discussion too.
  45. [11:51:34 AM] Zuki: They might? I'm not sure! You're welcome to log this, link them, and invite.
  46. [11:52:47 AM] Zuki: Ish has often debated with me that Myra's actions came off more like a romantic asexual than an aromantic.
  47. [11:53:21 AM] Zuki: brb.
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