log from contributor meeting #9

<shnatsel|gprs> Now I'll kinda take over the meeting, if you don't mind
<Innock> lol
<shnatsel|gprs> During this meeting we figured out that more apps than we expected won't have a shiny new version to ship in Luna, if we're shipping it simultaneously with Ubuntu Precise
<shnatsel|gprs> What's worse, it becomes more and more evident that development lacks focus.
<shnatsel|gprs> Sgringwe and me brought it up a long time ago, in fact
<shnatsel|gprs> but nvm\
<mamemame187> postler is one of them
<shnatsel|gprs> Especially Postler
<shnatsel|gprs> GTK3 Midori might not make it
<shnatsel|gprs> dexter-contacts is questionable
<tom95> ah, right, could some review this please: https://code.launchpad.net/~tombeckmann/slingshot/dnd ?
<shnatsel|gprs> yes, and Plank concerns too.
<MBarvian> plank concerns?
<MBarvian> nvm, keep going
<shnatsel|gprs> MBarvian: still not stable enough
<shnatsel|gprs> Pantheon Wallpaper still has quirks
<MBarvian> hehe :)
<Innock> so we're going for docky again?
<shnatsel|gprs> I'm looking at you, MBarvian
<MBarvian> o/
<mamemame187> docky
<mamemame187> meh
<MBarvian> suit yourself, I still prefer docky to plank
<shnatsel|gprs> And this doesn't seem to conform with our "When It's Ready" very much
<Innock> at least we must have wingpanel and slingshot
<shnatsel|gprs> Face it: we have feature freeze in 4 days and suddenly half of the apps we checked are not even nearly ready for a release.
<Innock> time to bugsquash
<shnatsel|gprs> This sucks.
<shnatsel|gprs> Yes, I'm C.O.
<Innock> Let's do a Papercuts project?
<lallenlowe> shit happens
<mamemame187> i like plank better
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<lallenlowe> it's ok
<MBarvian> no use getting worked up over it
<shnatsel|gprs> So, what shall we do now? (Still C.O.)
<Innock> Bug Squash weekend?
<shnatsel|gprs> First, figure out the issue (C.O.)
<shnatsel|gprs> Then, fix it (C.O.)
<shnatsel|gprs> We have two issues here in fact.
<shnatsel|gprs> (not C.O. anymore)
<MBarvian> !ud c.o.
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<shnatsel|gprs> MBarvian: Captain Obvious
<MBarvian> oh.
<shnatsel|gprs> The issues are lack of focus and lack of effective means of communication.
<Innock> Can I have attention please/
<shnatsel|gprs> An experiment on the web team *cough cough*...
<Innock> I propose we do a Bughunt Weekend project.
<shnatsel|gprs> Innock: please wait with that a bit
<mamemame187> maya
<Innock> and have people try to squash our bugs?
<shnatsel|gprs> ...shows that having a clear list of bugs they should fix till a release or milestone boosts productivity multiple times
<shnatsel|gprs> So.
<shnatsel|gprs> First thing we should do is to raid our projects and see how bad things are.
<shnatsel|gprs> Or good, but that's a rare case.
<shnatsel|gprs> Even better to make somebody else raid your project.
<shnatsel|gprs> As a developer of Glimpse, I have a fantastic ability to overlook its bugs.
<Innock> I think i'll squash every bug on Scratch.
<shnatsel|gprs> Then all notable bugs that can be fixed till a beta release suitable for wider testing (which usually means "all bugs in this series") are targeted to a specific milestone
<shnatsel|gprs> this provides two things:
<shnatsel|gprs> first, it's a clear list of goals till the nearest release. It's hard to believe, but it really actually boosts productivity multiple times and helps other people make a needed contribution, not a random one.
<shnatsel|gprs> Second, it provides a rewarding visualization of progress.
<Innock> Bugs on Scratch that needs fix: 02
<shnatsel|gprs> Seeing the list turn green is... exciting at least.
<shnatsel|gprs> Speaking of progress...
<shnatsel|gprs> Somehow (I haven't figured out why) it's exciting and motivating to see the progress on other projects.
<shnatsel|gprs> Right now devs not working on a particular project hardly know what's going on in it
<shnatsel|gprs> This is called the Babylon Tower problem
<shnatsel|gprs> I tried to fix that with weekly screencasts, but that didn't work out.
<shnatsel|gprs> So now I suggest a different thing: Launchpad announcements.
<shnatsel|gprs> That seems to work quite well on the projects on which it's been tested
<shnatsel|gprs> The feed from ALL of elementary can be accessed at http://feeds.launchpad.net/elementary/announcements.atom
<shnatsel|gprs> it can be incorporated in the website later to make it look prettier
<shnatsel|gprs> but that's just the first step
* Kus (~karlis@46.109.111.249) зашел на канал #elementary-dev
<shnatsel|gprs> and we still have to work up to a COMMON goal of releasing Luna as a whole, not another distro falling apart like those mints and pinguyos and whatnot
<shnatsel|gprs> So, let's walk through the measures I already proposed, before I go on
<mamemame187> kk
<MBarvian> haha, pinguyOS
<mamemame187> XDD
<shnatsel|gprs> 1. Raid all apps and make a status report on them. Target bugs needed for a release to beta milestone.
<shnatsel|gprs> beta milestone of the app
<shnatsel|gprs> LP has a nice way of doing it
<shnatsel|gprs> to carry this out I've pushed a management team a while ago :)
<khampal|afk> shnatsel|gprs: do we want those announcements on the new site?
<shnatsel|gprs> khampal|afk: yes.
* khampal|afk теперь известен как khampal
<shnatsel|gprs> khampal: I guess so.
<khampal> shnatsel|gprs: to be read from that feed or a seperate system?
<shnatsel|gprs> khampal: feed
<khampal> shnatsel|gprs: kk will add it to the todo list
<shnatsel|gprs> 2. Announce all notable changes via Launchpad announcements. Be it a new feature or a notorious bug fixed, announce it.
<shnatsel|gprs> We already exchange this info in the IRC, but that's not enough.
<shnatsel|gprs> it's far too easy to miss and you can already see it doesn't work
<Innock> I see
<mamemame187> ditto
<shnatsel|gprs> 3. Get centralized daily builds rolling, so you can download them, check out the progress, and test apps in context.
<shnatsel|gprs> Not just a script which you can run and build the ISO. Those ISOs should be already there.
<shnatsel|gprs> Any comments? Suggestions? Opposition?
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<mamemame187> nope
<mamemame187> wait
<mamemame187> maya, midori, dexter-contacts, all need dev focus
 m4n1sh mamemame187 manamana MBarvian mrmcq2u mrslv munchor
<shnatsel|gprs> mamemame187: sure.
<mamemame187> Did Maya get any ne features this week?
<mamemame187> new
<shnatsel|gprs> mamemame187: not that I know of
<shnatsel|gprs> I dare to say we might consider some apps for Luna which are currently considered "community" or "3rd party" or whatever it's called for inclusion in Luna. They should be included in the status report if their developers desire it.
<mamemame187> That's weird, it dosen't work for me, it has GUI bugs and causes lightdm to have to get restarted
<shnatsel|gprs> So, if there's no opposition to those items, maybe I can hear some words of support? :D
<Innock> We should build our milestones naming system
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<shnatsel|gprs> 4. We should make a journal post on these items (excluding this one - let's avoid recursion!)
<Innock> Like, Alpha, Beta 1, Beta 2, RC, RTM
<shnatsel|gprs> Hey guys, if you have an opinion on the things I've been writing here, please share it. If you don't, just confirm you're still here XD
<mamemame187> So will we be using LSC with elementary branding instead of USC
<Innock> yes.
<mamemame187> kk
<shnatsel|gprs> mamemame187: let's not decide this yet, please
<mamemame187> now we just need the branding
<mamemame187> kk
<Innock> Adding stuff on elementary-artwork.
* tom95 (~tom@p5B36D47D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) покинул #elementary-dev
<Innock> ^ that is our goal
* cassidyjames (ad17327b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.23.50.123) зашел на канал #elementary-dev
<shnatsel|gprs> agent00tai, lallenlowe, MBarvian, xapantu: any opinion on the things I've been typing for the past half an hour?
<lallenlowe> well
<shnatsel|gprs> munchor: ^
<lallenlowe> I think you are on the right track for sure
<lallenlowe> the tricky part is getting everyone to DO it
<hcabaguio> bagels
<shnatsel|gprs> lallenlowe: it boils down to this: either we do it, or we never release Luna.
<lallenlowe> shnatsel|gprs: you might be right
<hcabaguio> let's wait for 14.04
<lallenlowe> I think NEVER is a bit strong
<Innock> at least scratch has zero imposing bugs.
<shnatsel|gprs> Innock: I'll report some, don't worry
<Innock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/scratch/+bug/923434 this one is fixed by me
<shnatsel|gprs> oh /facepalm
<shnatsel|gprs> lallenlowe: you're right.
<shnatsel|gprs> lallenlowe: I've spent the past hour in vain. Nobody seems to care.
<lallenlowe> shnatsel|gprs: well, the meeting has been going for hours
<Innock> I knew this would come.
<lallenlowe> shnatsel|gprs: most have left or stopped paying attention
<lallenlowe> shnatsel|gprs: we need to START with your thoughts next time