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1 | On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 1:43 AM, Peter R <peter_r@gmx.com> wrote: | |
2 | > Dear Greg, | |
3 | > | |
4 | > I am moving our conversation into public as I've recently learned that | |
5 | > you've been forwarding our private email conversation verbatim without | |
6 | > my permission [I received permission from dpinna to share the email | |
7 | > below that proves this fact]. | |
8 | ||
9 | - | Unfortunately, your work extensive as it was -- separately-- made two |
9 | + | Unfortunately, your work extensive as it was made at least two |
10 | - | non-disclosed or poorly disclosed simplifying assumption and a significant |
10 | + | non-disclosed or poorly-disclosed simplifying assumptions and a significant |
11 | - | system understanding error which undermined it completely. |
11 | + | system understanding error which, I believe, undermined it completely. |
12 | ||
13 | In short these were: | |
14 | ||
15 | * You assume miners do not have the ability to change their level | |
16 | centralization. | |
17 | ||
18 | - | -- In fact they do, in practice they _seem_ to have responded to |
18 | + | -- In fact they do, not just in theory but in pratice have responded |
19 | - | blocksize this way in the past; and it is one of the major |
19 | + | to orphaning this way in the past; and it is one of the major |
20 | concerns in this space. | |
21 | ||
22 | * You assume the supply of bitcoin is infinite (that subsidy never | |
23 | declines) | |
24 | ||
25 | -- It declines geometrically, and must if the 21m limit is to be upheld. | |
26 | (Though I think this is not equally important to the concerns) | |
27 | ||
28 | * You argue, incorrectly, that amount of information which must be | |
29 | transmitted at the moment a block is discovered is proportional to the | |
30 | block's size. | |
31 | - | -- Instead the same information can be transmitted _in advance_ as |
31 | + | |
32 | - | has been previously proposed and various techniques can make this |
32 | + | -- Instead the same information can be transmitted _in advance_, as |
33 | - | arbitrarily efficient. |
33 | + | has been previously proposed, and various techniques can make doing |
34 | so arbitrarily efficient. | |
35 | ||
36 | [I would encourage anyone who is interested to read the included off-list | |
37 | discussion] | |
38 | ||
39 | I contacted you in private as a courtesy in the hope that it would be | |
40 | a more productive pathway to improving our collective understanding; as well | |
41 | as a courtesy to the readers of the list in consideration of traffic levels. | |
42 | ||
43 | In one sense, this was a success: Our conversation concluded with you | |
44 | enumerating a series of corrective actions that you would take: | |
45 | ||
46 | -------- | |
47 | > 1. I will make it more clear that the results of the paper hinge on | |
48 | > the assumption that block solutions are propagated across channels, | |
49 | > and that the quantity of pure information communicated per solution | |
50 | > is proportional to the amount of information contained within the block. | |
51 | > | |
52 | > 2. I will add a note [unless you ask me not to] something to the effect | |
53 | > of "Greg Maxwell challenges the claim that the coding gain cannot | |
54 | > be infinite…" followed by a summary of the scenario you described. | |
55 | > I will reference "personal communication." I will also run the note | |
56 | > by you before I make the next revision public. | |
57 | > | |
58 | > 3. I will point out that if the coding gain can be made spectacularly | |
59 | > high, that the propagation impedance in my model will become very small, | |
60 | > and that although a fee market may strictly exist in the asymptotic | |
61 | > sense, such a fee market may not be relevant (the phenomena in the paper | |
62 | > would be negligible compared to the dynamics from some other effect). | |
63 | > | |
64 | > 4. [UNRELATED] I also plan to address Dave Hudson's objections in my | |
65 | > next revision (the "you don't orphan your own block" point). | |
66 | > | |
67 | > Lastly, thank you for the note about what might happen when fees > | |
68 | > rewards. I've have indeed been thinking about this. I believe it is | |
69 | > outside the scope of the present paper, although I am doing some work | |
70 | > on the topic. (Perhaps I'll add a bit more discussion on this topic | |
71 | > to the present paper to get the reader thinking in this direction). | |
72 | -------- | |
73 | ||
74 | To the best of my knowledge, you've taken none of these corrective | |
75 | actions in the nearly month that has passed. I certainly understand being | |
76 | backlogged, but you've also continued to make public comments about your | |
77 | work seemingly (to me) in contradiction with the above corrective actions. | |
78 | ||
79 | - | work and wasn't made aware of these points. The result was that the other |
79 | + | |
80 | - | authors work may require significant revisions. I complained about this |
80 | + | work and wasn't made aware of these points. A result was that the other |
81 | - | to you, again privately, and your apparent response was to post to that |
81 | + | author's work may require significant revisions. |
82 | - | thread stating that there was a details-unspecified academic disagreement |
82 | + | |
83 | - | with me and "I look forward to a white paper demonstrating otherwise!", |
83 | + | I complained about this to you, again privately, and your (apparent) |
84 | - | in direct contradiction for your remarks to me three weeks ago in private |
84 | + | response was to post to that thread stating that there was a |
85 | - | correspondence. -- Contrast, in private you said that your model may |
85 | + | details-unspecified academic disagreement with me and "I look forward |
86 | - | only hold in an asymptotic sense and that "the phenomena in the paper |
86 | + | to a white paper demonstrating otherwise!", in direct contradiction to |
87 | - | would be negligible compared to the dynamics from some other effect"; |
87 | + | your remarks to me three weeks ago in private correspondence: In private |
88 | - | but in public you said my complaints were "academic"? |
88 | + | you said that your model may only hold in an asymptotic sense and that |
89 | "the phenomena in the paper (may) be negligible compared to the dynamics | |
90 | from some other effect"; but in public you said /my/ complaints were | |
91 | "academic". | |
92 | ||
93 | At this point I thought continuing to withhold this information from | |
94 | the other author was unethical and no longer justified by courtesy | |
95 | - | read it and consider it.". I apologize if in doing so I've breached |
95 | + | |
96 | - | your confidence, none of the material we discussed was a sort that I |
96 | + | |
97 | - | would have ordinarily considered private, and you had already talked |
97 | + | |
98 | - | about making the product of our communication published as part of your |
98 | + | read it and consider it.". |
99 | - | corrective actions. I do not think it would be reasonable to demand that |
99 | + | |
100 | - | I spent time repeating the same discussion again with the other author, |
100 | + | I apologize if in doing so I've breached your confidence, none of the |
101 | - | or deprive them of your side of it and/or the corrective actions which |
101 | + | material we discussed was a sort that I would have ordinarily considered |
102 | - | you had said you would take but have not taken. As you say, 'we are |
102 | + | private, and you had already talked about making the product of our |
103 | - | all here trying to learn about this new amazing thing called Bitcoin'; |
103 | + | communication published as part of your corrective actions. |
104 | - | and I'm not embarrassed to error towards doing that, but I am sorry |
104 | + | I do not think it would be reasonable to demand that I spent time |
105 | repeating the same discussion again with the other author, or deprive | |
106 | them of your side of it and/or the corrective actions which you had | |
107 | said you would take but have not yet taken. | |
108 | ||
109 | As you say, 'we are all here trying to learn about this new amazing | |
110 | thing called Bitcoin'; and I'm not embarrassed to error towards doing | |
111 | that and aiding others in doing so, but at the same time I am sorry | |
112 | that I have done so in a way which caused you injury. | |
113 | ||
114 | In any case, your prior proposed corrective actions seemed sufficient to me. | |
115 | ||
116 | It surprises me, greatly, that you are failing to see the extreme | |
117 | practicality of what I described to you, and that it does not meaningfully | |
118 | diminish miner control of transaction selection-- but even without it your | |
119 | remark that the proportionality could be arbitrarily small (Rather than | |
120 | 0, as I argue) is an adequate correction to your work. I believe my time | |
121 | would be better spent actually _implementing_ improved relaying described | |
122 | (and describe what was implemented) than continue a purely academic debate | |
123 | with you over in inconsequential difference between epsilon and zero. | |
124 | ||
125 | Cheers, |