[12:15:49] @Arifeen ★: d t c EonX kamisama_no49 Astiraelin
[12:16:00] +EonX: i'm here
[12:16:15] @Arifeen ★: Ok so first we have Meteordash, please post your team via pastebin.
[12:16:33] +Meteordash: http://pastebin.com/4gqsaiyE
[12:18:18] +EonX: hm
[12:18:29] +EonX: this team really lacks a way to reliably switch into venusaur by the looks of it
[12:18:41] +EonX: and blastoise gives it a relatively free switch-in
[12:18:50] @Arifeen ★: It looks like Spiritomb pressures the team especially since it can have a free switch to Medicham and there aren't any Pokemon can coherently KO it
[12:19:11] @Arifeen ★: That too, although Drapion sort of checks it
[12:19:19] &d t c: im not so sure drapion is needed
[12:19:27] +EonX: blastoise can 1v1 spiritomb thanks to refresh
[12:19:32] +EonX: so that isn't as concerning
[12:19:34] @Arifeen ★: Yeah, it's a shaky Venusaur check
[12:19:59] &d t c: i'm also not sure that this is
[12:20:02] &d t c: a scarf medi team
[12:20:05] &d t c: even tho thats a good set
[12:20:28] @Arifeen ★: yeah Meteordash, did u build around Scarf Medi + Band Drap?
[12:20:38] +Meteordash: yea
[12:20:45] &d t c: o
[12:20:48] &d t c: i thought it was built around
[12:20:50] +EonX: it honestly felt more like a CM viriz team
[12:20:52] &d t c: cm virizion and fletch
[12:20:56] &d t c: yeah lol
[12:21:19] +kamisama_no49: why are you using cm virizion here, if i may ask
[12:21:50] +Astiraelin: sounds like he wants to mess around with that neat fighting core
[12:21:58] +kamisama_no49: b.c i'm of the opinion that maybe 19/20 times, cm is just playing as a worse sd that has validation in running lo
[12:22:10] +kamisama_no49: which does not pay off more often than not
[12:22:17] +Meteordash: cm viri usually is pretty decent when it comes to teams that kinda need a good special attacker
[12:22:23] @Arifeen ★: Yeah CM is a bit worse now esp since most Tangs are AV anyways
[12:22:28] +Meteordash: sd lure viris are nice but this team needed a hard special attacker
[12:23:16] +Astiraelin: it works as a quick breakdown to mega steelix balances which that team rly needs
[12:23:22] +Astiraelin: not sure what's wrong with it
[12:23:26] +EonX: yeah, CM works better for this team
[12:23:32] +EonX: it has no special attacker outside of viriz atm
[12:23:40] +kamisama_no49: ya see, that's not a real reason
[12:23:56] +kamisama_no49: having no special attackers on a team doesn't make a bad team
[12:24:10] &d t c: hmm so what do we do about venu problem
[12:24:18] +Astiraelin: i agree with that
[12:24:20] +EonX: i mean, he has the support necessary for cm viriz anyway (pursuit)
[12:24:21] @Arifeen ★: Get a better check definitely
[12:24:35] +EonX: maybe registeel over mega steelix?
[12:25:08] @Arifeen ★: Was thinking that, but team becomes prone to Volt Turn and needs a solid Fighting check too
[12:25:12] +Astiraelin: im also noticing a big stretch vs. fighting types
[12:25:15] @Arifeen ★: As check I meant
[12:25:16] @Arifeen ★: Switchin
[12:25:19] @Arifeen ★: yea exactly
[12:25:26] +Astiraelin: i'd go for protect on stoise honestly
[12:25:41] @Arifeen ★: I really think Spiritomb > Drapion and Registeel > Mega Steelix would be the best scenario
[12:25:43] +Astiraelin: i usually never run toxic as two bulky water baits on my team
[12:25:57] @Arifeen ★: ya agreed
[12:26:12] &d t c: surprised arifeen didnt recommend garbodor
[12:26:17] @Arifeen ★: -
[12:26:19] +Astiraelin: adamant steelix is also mediocre
[12:26:24] +kamisama_no49: garbodor rocks
[12:26:27] +kamisama_no49: as does ada lix
[12:26:39] +kamisama_no49: and i will continue to be not helpful
[12:26:41] +kamisama_no49: haha
[12:26:54] @Arifeen ★: lol
[12:26:57] &d t c: Arifeen's changes sound decent
[12:27:06] +EonX: yeah, i think regi and tomb over mega lix and drap sounds good
[12:27:26] @Arifeen ★: And if you /really/ need a Tspikes absorber u could go Venu, but Refresh stoise removes hazards fine
[12:27:53] +Meteordash: hm kk
[12:28:04] +Astiraelin: i think careful steelix is just about fine
[12:28:24] @Arifeen ★: It's not a solid Venu check tho, and is prone to being worn down
[12:28:38] @Arifeen ★: On the other hand, having lix will give u a better matchup vs voltturn teams
[12:29:11] &d t c: eh is voltturn that big of a concern
[12:29:32] &d t c: mlix isnt even the best switchin to most of the volt switch mons anyways
[12:29:34] @Arifeen ★: not really
[12:29:47] +EonX: yeah, mane and eel blow it back anyway
[12:29:49] +Astiraelin: just my opinion, but there are many other cons that go along w/ adding registeel as a team's main pivot
[12:30:24] &d t c: mega lix takes too much from lo leaf storm
[12:30:29] +EonX: like
[12:30:31] +kamisama_no49: well, most electrics have the tools with which to handle the standard grounds, the basis of them at this point are more as a deterrent than anything
[12:30:40] @Arifeen ★: ya
[12:30:46] @Arifeen ★: which is why Regi's better
[12:30:47] @Arifeen ★: imo
[12:30:52] &d t c: 53-63% is too much for a mega lix to take
[12:30:52] +EonX: if we keep mega lix over regi, venu just picks up a kill whenever it comes into stoise
[12:31:09] &d t c: yeah and SR + venu
[12:31:13] &d t c: is not an uncommon scenario
[12:31:17] +Astiraelin: well there's a CB Drapion isn't it
[12:31:34] +Astiraelin: and something that actually makes the opponent think twice before leaf storming
[12:31:43] +kamisama_no49: i'm to understand we're going w/a tomb > drap approach
[12:32:08] @Arifeen ★: ya cuz Fighting destroys the team
[12:32:09] +Astiraelin: rly dont think its that necessary
[12:32:22] &d t c: drap takes 50% from lo leaf storm, which could be a problem if u need it to beat psychics
[12:32:30] +Astiraelin: but anyways if we're going spiritomb regi is a given
[12:32:55] +Astiraelin: i was mentionning fletchinder
[12:33:11] @Arifeen ★: Well a fighting type can switch in, KO and switch out
[12:33:18] @Arifeen ★: And team loses if rocks are up
[12:33:39] +Astiraelin: hence the protect mention on stoise
[12:33:40] +EonX: fletch's resistances may as well be non-existent
[12:33:43] +EonX: especially if rocks are up
[12:33:52] &d t c: i like registeel + blastoise
[12:33:53] +Astiraelin: but yeah scarf medicham prolly 6-0's regardless
[12:33:56] &d t c: or any good bulky water anyways
[12:34:16] &d t c: i still think we should use protect
[12:34:19] &d t c: if we use tomb
[12:34:24] @Arifeen ★: ya
[12:34:35] +EonX: on stoise?
[12:34:36] @Arifeen ★: We could aim for signal beam cuz malamar wins LOL
[12:34:58] &d t c: why does malamar win
[12:34:59] &d t c: vs everything
[12:35:03] @Arifeen ★: it's broken
[12:35:08] +EonX: bc mega lix makes its checks bad
[12:35:11] +kamisama_no49: malabar roolz
[12:35:27] &d t c: does signal beam toise hit anything else
[12:35:31] +kamisama_no49: nope!
[12:35:35] @Arifeen ★: No LOL
[12:35:35] +kamisama_no49: its tre nu
[12:35:36] +EonX: i mean
[12:35:42] +EonX: it tickles tangrowth i guess
[12:35:43] +EonX: lmao
[12:36:17] +Astiraelin: i use signal beam on my standard colbur slowkings and that actually targets other stuff like
[12:36:19] +Astiraelin: sneasel
[12:36:21] +Astiraelin: lo tang
[12:36:25] +Astiraelin: oo
[12:36:37] &d t c: 0 SpA Blastoise Signal Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 110-130 (34.2 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
[12:36:39] @Arifeen ★: yea
[12:36:56] +EonX: that's laughable
[12:37:08] +Astiraelin: what set are we going with spiritomb by the way
[12:37:19] +kamisama_no49: cb, man up
[12:37:29] +Astiraelin: lol
[12:37:33] @Arifeen ★: or Wisp Sucker Pursuit Foul Play oo
[12:37:42] +Astiraelin: fairies are actually not that common anymore
[12:37:49] +Astiraelin: resttalk would help
[12:37:55] +Astiraelin: at handling malamar the whole match
[12:38:16] +Astiraelin: w/ pressure and stuff
[12:38:21] @Arifeen ★: true
[12:38:35] +Astiraelin: foul play will o wisp rest sleep talk ?_?
[12:38:44] +Astiraelin: do we need psychics removed that much
[12:38:49] +EonX: uh
[12:38:50] @Arifeen ★: I mean Medi appreciates it
[12:38:51] +EonX: we have a scarf medicham
[12:38:52] @Arifeen ★: + Viriz
[12:39:05] +Astiraelin: psychics mostly stand for meloetta/sigilyph
[12:39:18] +EonX: and sigi can eat medi's STABs for days
[12:39:27] +Astiraelin: there's thunder punch though
[12:39:31] +Astiraelin: so idk
[12:39:50] +EonX: true, but a lost 50 / 50 with cham usually = death
[12:39:50] +Astiraelin: well pursuit/foul play rest talk then
[12:40:24] @Arifeen ★: ya works
[12:40:25] +EonX: that sounds ok
[12:40:29] @Arifeen ★: Everyone cool with it?
[12:40:37] +EonX: i can get behind it
[12:40:43] &d t c: hey guys
[12:40:48] &d t c: i have a team that needs to be rated
[12:40:54] @Arifeen ★: Ok stand in line
[12:40:55] +EonX: no you don't
[12:40:58] +EonX: lol
[12:41:16] &d t c: ya i do eonx, its that accelgor team i cant seem to make work
[12:41:22] @Arifeen ★: oh ok
[12:41:27] +kamisama_no49: is it sash accelgor
[12:41:27] @Arifeen ★: Ok so we're done with Meteordash
[12:41:44] @Arifeen ★: RestTalkFP+Wisp Tomb over Drap and Registeel over Lix Meteordash
[12:41:45] &d t c: no its not sash
[12:41:47] +Meteordash: ty
[12:41:50] @Arifeen ★: Anyways
[12:41:56] +kamisama_no49: ok, cool
[12:42:02] @Arifeen ★: Now we will have Solidsweeps post a team
[12:42:12] +Astiraelin: it was pursuit
[12:42:13] +Astiraelin: i think
[12:42:16] Solidsweeps was promoted to Room Voice by Arifeen ★.
[12:42:17] +Solidsweeps: hi guys
[12:42:20] @Arifeen ★: hi
[12:42:32] +Solidsweeps: made a new team
[12:42:33] +Solidsweeps: http://pastebin.com/0b5Gy0Lv
[12:42:38] +Solidsweeps: like 2 days ago
[12:42:53] +Ryoma Nagare: Well first of all you have mild venusaur
[12:42:56] @Arifeen ★: Venusaur eats that oml
[12:43:05] +Astiraelin: when people get obsessed with malamar (cwl)
[12:43:05] @Arifeen ★: Also what's with that Sigi spread?
[12:43:11] &d t c: why do u need hitmontop
[12:43:13] &d t c: on that team
[12:43:20] @Arifeen ★: hi oversleeping atomicllamas
[12:43:23] &atomicllamas: sorry I'm late
[12:43:24] &atomicllamas: D:
[12:43:27] &d t c: atomicllamas :D
[12:43:37] @Arifeen ★: [22:40] +Solidsweeps: http://pastebin.com/0b5Gy0Lv
[12:43:40] @Arifeen ★: this is the team we're rating
[12:43:47] +EonX: i'm of the opinion
[12:43:53] &d t c: i dont rly see what hitmontop does there
[12:43:55] +EonX: that mola should always have knock on more defensive teams
[12:44:05] +kamisama_no49: yeah, make that impish knock
[12:44:17] +EonX: you get blown back by subcm melo rn
[12:44:27] +kamisama_no49: tox is as good as useless b.c everyone is in love w/refresh waters
[12:44:30] +kamisama_no49: atm
[12:44:33] +Solidsweeps: i used to have sneasal instead of hitmontop
[12:44:37] +Astiraelin: yeah knock off mola definitely
[12:44:43] @Arifeen ★: Ok also why Iron Head on ttrum?
[12:44:46] &atomicllamas: I think you can drop iron head
[12:44:47] &atomicllamas: yeah
[12:44:48] +EonX: diancie can probably do with calm over sassy
[12:44:49] @Arifeen ★: Do u want Diancie gone that badly?
[12:44:56] +kamisama_no49: shut up llamas, u don't know
[12:44:57] +Astiraelin: you need hitmontop since it's your only head smash resist
[12:44:57] +EonX: i don't think you miss any KOes with diamond storm
[12:45:08] @Arifeen ★: ya Astiraelin I agree
[12:45:14] @Arifeen ★: but let's try to look at alternatives
[12:45:15] &d t c: isnt there a better head smash resist
[12:45:21] &atomicllamas: the one thing I noticed about this team is that its pretty weak to hoopa
[12:45:31] &atomicllamas: so knock on mola would definitely help
[12:45:36] +Astiraelin: sucker punch > mach punch
[12:45:36] +Astiraelin: too
[12:45:38] &d t c: im also not a fan of signal beam on sigi
[12:45:40] &d t c: ik u have it for
[12:45:41] &d t c: malamar
[12:45:45] &atomicllamas: also potentially sucker pucnh
[12:45:46] +kamisama_no49: yeah, generally i'd be incorporating pursuit in the slot tyrantrum occupies
[12:45:50] &atomicllamas: on top
[12:45:58] +Astiraelin: diancie + wish passing is just about fine
[12:45:58] &d t c: why not gurdurr
[12:46:00] +Astiraelin: for malamar
[12:46:02] &d t c: over hitmontop
[12:46:21] +kamisama_no49: well, i do feel hazard control is important here
[12:46:39] +EonX: yeah, it's v. susceptible to mega glalie
[12:46:41] +Astiraelin: i have no problems with hitmontop personally
[12:46:44] +Ryoma Nagare: Feeling like the team
[12:46:50] +Solidsweeps: can gurdurr instead of hitmon
[12:46:53] &d t c: thats true, spikes m glalie puts a lot of pressure
[12:46:53] +Ryoma Nagare: also could struggle with specs melo
[12:46:54] +Solidsweeps: and flygon instead of ttrum
[12:47:14] +Astiraelin: i'd consider band sneasel
[12:47:16] +Astiraelin: over tyrantrum
[12:47:29] +EonX: why band sneasel? wouldn't lo be better?
[12:47:33] +Astiraelin: to make yourself less opened to offensive psychics
[12:47:38] &atomicllamas: it supposed to be timid venu right
[12:47:39] +kamisama_no49: a route i could see working decently would be, yeah, sneasel > ttrum and defog gonner > top
[12:47:41] &atomicllamas: I just assumed that
[12:47:42] +Astiraelin: i dislike life orb sneasel as a whole
[12:48:00] +Solidsweeps: modest
[12:48:02] +Solidsweeps: venu
[12:48:03] +kamisama_no49: and there are some significant gains to be had utilizing cb > lo
[12:48:06] +EonX: you need timid
[12:48:06] &atomicllamas: Id run
[12:48:07] &atomicllamas: timid
[12:48:13] +Astiraelin: there will be many scenarios when sneasel is forced to be sent out
[12:48:13] &atomicllamas: cause you're already hooopa weak
[12:48:15] +EonX: i'd also run knock over hp fire to bop hoopa
[12:48:16] +Astiraelin: under rocks pressure
[12:48:29] +Astiraelin: and life orb just kills the staying power it needs
[12:48:36] @Arifeen ★: Don't we already have momo for Melo + Hoopa?
[12:48:43] +EonX: well
[12:48:47] +kamisama_no49: i'd rather have sleep powder on venu
[12:48:52] +Astiraelin: you barely even need to switch moves when using sneasel
[12:48:52] &atomicllamas: its bold mola
[12:48:56] +EonX: powder works too yh
[12:49:08] +EonX: hp fire is kinda worthless in this meta
[12:49:10] +Astiraelin: and it lets you drop stronger icicle crashs on opposing resists
[12:49:15] +kamisama_no49: b.c hp fire is dookie, we'll have pursuit support suppressing the key ghosts and psychics, etc
[12:49:23] &d t c: ya i think hitmontop/gurdurr
[12:49:28] &d t c: are ok enough checks to escav
[12:49:41] @Arifeen ★: Ok so uhh
[12:49:46] @Arifeen ★: what are the changes we're aiming for?
[12:49:57] &atomicllamas: Venu -> timid
[12:50:03] +EonX: mola -> knock
[12:50:04] &atomicllamas: Sigi -> CM
[12:50:04] +kamisama_no49: i think sneasel over tyrantrum is set
[12:50:10] +kamisama_no49: yeah?
[12:50:36] +Astiraelin: it should imo
[12:50:45] @Arifeen ★: Yeah
[12:50:46] +Astiraelin: what about iron head ttrum
[12:50:48] +EonX: no argument with that
[12:50:51] &atomicllamas: doesn't that make the team p slow
[12:51:01] +Astiraelin: oh yeah
[12:51:04] +Astiraelin: nvm
[12:51:06] +kamisama_no49: well, what is capitalizing on that drop in speed
[12:51:26] &atomicllamas: good point I guess it still gets
[12:51:28] &atomicllamas: DD scrafty
[12:51:28] +kamisama_no49: the faster stuff is usually getting handled aptly by the defensive backbone here
[12:51:43] &atomicllamas: yeah its probably fine
[12:51:48] +kamisama_no49: hmm, but who other than me runs scrafty tho
[12:51:52] +kamisama_no49: think we'd be set
[12:51:52] +Ryoma Nagare: me
[12:51:55] +kamisama_no49: oh, dope
[12:51:58] +kamisama_no49: good on u
[12:52:01] +Ryoma Nagare: thanks
[12:52:02] @Arifeen ★: lol
[12:52:12] &atomicllamas: okay so changes are
[12:52:20] +Astiraelin: also sucker punch on hitmontop
[12:52:24] +Astiraelin: if you're keeping it
[12:52:24] @Arifeen ★: I mean Hitmontop can also check Scrafty
[12:52:47] +kamisama_no49: also yes
[12:52:52] &d t c: also kamisama_no49
[12:52:55] &d t c: ur going on ps now? :O
[12:53:01] +kamisama_no49: almost never!
[12:53:04] &atomicllamas: toxic -> knock on mola modest -> timid on venu, signal -> cm on sigi, tyrantrum -> sneasel, sucker > mach punch on top
[12:53:05] &d t c: u should stay imo
[12:53:07] @Arifeen ★: hi fran17
[12:53:07] +kamisama_no49: but i promised to do this haha
[12:53:10] +fran17.: hey
[12:53:10] &atomicllamas: or you could do foresite
[12:53:13] +kamisama_no49: i'll try man
[12:53:22] @Arifeen ★: Everyone agree with atomicllamas?
[12:53:27] @Arifeen ★: (i do)
[12:53:36] +EonX: that looks fine to me
[12:53:39] +kamisama_no49: good community, but i'm strapped for free time in most cases
[12:53:41] +kamisama_no49: also yes
[12:53:43] +Ryoma Nagare: Yeah i can get over it
[12:53:52] +EonX: wait
[12:53:56] @Arifeen ★: ?
[12:53:58] +EonX: did we agree on band or lo for sneasel?
[12:54:05] &d t c: with sneasel hitmontop spin support is p important
[12:54:07] &d t c: so that looks fine
[12:54:16] +kamisama_no49: hmm, i suppose either can work
[12:54:21] +kamisama_no49: @ lo v.band
[12:54:27] &d t c: maybe lo might be a bit better with spin support tho
[12:54:33] +Astiraelin: really not a fan of life orb
[12:54:34] +Astiraelin: personally
[12:54:37] &d t c: idk, i havent explored band
[12:54:41] &d t c: so i cant rly say anything about band vs lo
[12:54:48] +kamisama_no49: idt its something we need to reach a consensus on here, the builder can mess w/it as seen fit
[12:54:50] +EonX: lo for now, but maybe explore with band?
[12:55:13] @Arifeen ★: I tried both, I like both
[12:55:19] +Solidsweeps: toxic -> knock on mola modest -> timid on venu, signal -> cm on sigi, tyrantrum -> sneasel, sucker > mach punch on top
[12:55:22] +Solidsweeps: ill implement this
[12:55:26] +Astiraelin: there will be many scenarios where sneasel is forced out on the rocks pressure
[12:55:32] +Solidsweeps: and switch up lo and band, to explore
[12:55:39] +EonX: alright then
[12:55:42] &atomicllamas: there are also a lot of scenarios when
[12:55:44] +EonX: cool, let's keep this up
[12:55:50] +Astiraelin: expect life orb is allowed 2 entries and cb 5
[12:55:51] &atomicllamas: you'll want to switch moves
[12:55:52] &atomicllamas: oo
[12:56:03] +kamisama_no49: oh dang, pearl brought duggy m-aud vs u dtc
[12:56:09] +kamisama_no49: was it crodino
[12:56:12] &d t c: ya
[12:56:19] @Arifeen ★: kamisama_no49 wish pass
[12:56:20] +kamisama_no49: b.c i swear i've wanted to build that shit forever haha
[12:56:24] +kamisama_no49: oh, lame
[12:56:28] &d t c: oh
[12:56:32] &d t c: right
[12:56:35] @Arifeen ★: Anyways
[12:56:38] +EonX: yeah, that's why it didn't 6-0 you dtc
[12:56:40] @Arifeen ★: we're done here wtih Solidsweeps
[12:56:41] +kamisama_no49: it seems like a really strong prospect now
[12:56:46] (Solidsweeps was demoted to Room regular user by Arifeen ★.)
[12:56:48] &d t c: lol EonX even if it was cro
[12:56:50] Make a Mew was promoted to Room Voice by Arifeen ★.
[12:56:54] &d t c: i had a higher chance of going through it
[12:56:54] @Arifeen ★: Make a Mew post team :D
[12:57:04] +Make a Mew: http://pastebin.com/LG1PTP9J
[12:57:27] +Astiraelin: wait what
[12:57:32] @Arifeen ★: ?
[12:57:35] +Astiraelin: why did you sucker the bronzong dtc
[12:57:39] +Astiraelin: just saw the replay
[12:57:40] @Arifeen ★: he's bad
[12:57:41] @Arifeen ★: LOOOL
[12:57:49] &d t c: thats why i lost Astiraelin
[12:57:56] +EonX: ok
[12:58:01] +EonX: back to the team we're helping
[12:58:01] @Arifeen ★: Anyways
[12:58:04] +EonX: escav wants band
[12:58:04] +kamisama_no49: hmm
[12:58:05] +EonX: for sure imo
[12:58:10] +kamisama_no49: proposal
[12:58:11] @Arifeen ★: I think HP Fire Venu puts a lot of pressure on the team
[12:58:21] &d t c: he has sigilyph
[12:58:22] @Arifeen ★: Qwilfish isn't rly that great rn
[12:58:28] +kamisama_no49: cb gon, lefties esca, ep diancie
[12:58:29] +kamisama_no49: set
[12:58:38] +Astiraelin: [17:54:34] &atomicllamas: you'll want to switch moves
[12:58:39] +Astiraelin: [17:54:35] &atomicllamas: oo
[12:58:39] +Astiraelin: thats quite barely the case on pursuit sneasel imo
[12:58:43] &d t c: meh @ lefties escav
[12:58:51] +EonX: definitely earth power on diancie
[12:58:51] &d t c: earth power diancie and band flygon could be worth considering tho
[12:58:55] +EonX: as this is a more offensive team
[12:58:56] +Ryoma Nagare: that's AV
[12:58:57] +Astiraelin: and we've got a solid backbone for whatever threatens sneasel out if anything
[12:59:00] &d t c: mega camel seems
[12:59:01] &d t c: rly dangerous
[12:59:11] &d t c: so EP would be good
[12:59:21] +EonX: i would also put a little speed on diancie to outspeed modest max speed mega camel
[12:59:30] +EonX: i think it needs like 16 speed EVs
[12:59:30] &d t c: 16 speed evs
[12:59:39] +EonX: so it's not a huge deal at all to do that
[12:59:42] +EonX: and go calm
[12:59:43] +EonX: obv
[13:00:12] +EonX: we also need some speed on this team
[13:00:16] +EonX: holy shit
[13:00:26] &d t c: his team isnt that slow
[13:00:33] +EonX: it's a more offensive team tho
[13:00:35] &d t c: sneasel pressures all
[13:00:38] &d t c: of his offensive mons tho
[13:01:03] @Arifeen ★: Can we get back to this team ._.
[13:01:09] +EonX: we are on thist eam lol
[13:01:13] @Arifeen ★: Oh wait
[13:01:13] @Arifeen ★: LOL
[13:01:14] +EonX: where are you
[13:01:19] +kamisama_no49: ur a nut bro
[13:01:21] @Arifeen ★: Sorry I read it wrong
[13:01:25] +EonX: good job
[13:01:26] +EonX: my hero
[13:01:27] +EonX: ok
[13:01:32] &d t c: i dont like how
[13:01:37] &d t c: sneasel outspeeds and ohkos all of his offense mons
[13:01:38] @Arifeen ★: Anyways Sigi isn't a Venu answer
[13:01:43] &d t c: its a check obv
[13:01:45] @Arifeen ★: it takes like 60 from Sludge
[13:01:56] +EonX: i don't like LO CM atm
[13:01:56] +Astiraelin: could he try
[13:02:03] +Astiraelin: yache on lum berry @ virizion
[13:02:19] +fran17.: garbo over qwil is a way to be less venu weak
[13:02:27] +fran17.: and you still have spikes
[13:02:30] &d t c: mega lix?
[13:02:30] @Arifeen ★: Ya but he's also kinda Flygon weak
[13:02:33] &d t c: o actually
[13:02:35] @Arifeen ★: lol where's the ground resist
[13:02:37] &d t c: mega lix is just annoyng
[13:02:38] &d t c: in general lol
[13:02:47] +EonX: viriz is the ground resist
[13:02:49] +Astiraelin: ?
[13:02:54] +kamisama_no49: that's part of the ep diancie bit
[13:02:55] @Arifeen ★: Ok
[13:02:56] @Arifeen ★: I'm drunk
[13:02:57] +EonX: bc it's the only great offensive ground resist for the most part
[13:03:05] @Arifeen ★: ya but LO Flygon
[13:03:06] &d t c: ya but what if lix comes in vs
[13:03:07] @Arifeen ★: puts tons of pressure
[13:03:09] &d t c: his lefties escav
[13:03:10] @Arifeen ★: special one
[13:03:15] &d t c: or avest or w/e
[13:03:18] &d t c: we need to give it band
[13:03:24] +EonX: that's the first thing i said
[13:03:27] &atomicllamas: well with that moveset
[13:03:28] +EonX: thanks for ignoring me guys
[13:03:33] &d t c: EonX i agreed
[13:03:33] &d t c: w/ it
[13:03:35] &atomicllamas: band isn't doing anything to lix either
[13:03:44] &d t c: o it doesnt have drill run
[13:03:47] +EonX: drop kncok for drill run
[13:03:52] &d t c: ya
[13:04:28] &d t c: i feel like you need a lot of speed on escav
[13:04:36] &d t c: theres so much important stuff around that speed tier zzzz
[13:04:49] +EonX: yeah, i almost feel like you should be max with band
[13:04:50] +EonX: tbh
[13:05:04] +EonX: you have to run so much for the important shit anyway
[13:05:30] @Arifeen ★: Escav the new Camel
[13:05:33] @Arifeen ★: but ya makes sense
[13:05:41] +EonX: i mean, it's basically the physical version of camel
[13:05:44] &atomicllamas: What about
[13:06:03] +EonX: at a minimum, escav should have 164 speed EVs
[13:06:05] +EonX: imo
[13:06:13] +fran17.: ^
[13:06:17] &atomicllamas: using blastoise > qwilfish, using a LO flygon w/ Fire Blast, and cm psycho shift sigi over the current cm set
[13:06:31] &atomicllamas: you lose spikes but
[13:06:42] &atomicllamas: flygon kinda shits on the things you have spikes for anyways then
[13:06:47] +Astiraelin: that's quite exaggerated lol
[13:06:49] +EonX: actually
[13:06:50] &atomicllamas: + less ground resist
[13:06:54] +EonX: hold on
[13:06:54] &atomicllamas: err weaks
[13:07:00] +Astiraelin: you only need to accurately speed creep slowking
[13:07:03] +EonX: we don't have a mega
[13:07:05] +EonX: he wants spikes
[13:07:07] +EonX: enter mega glalie
[13:07:08] +EonX: y/n
[13:07:18] +Astiraelin: @ 164 speed esca
[13:07:38] &atomicllamas: where are you putting m glalie on this team oo
[13:08:03] +EonX: oh shit. we don't have a reliable fighting resist outside of qwil
[13:08:05] +EonX: nvm lmao
[13:08:20] &d t c: so what changes have been proposed
[13:08:21] &d t c: so far
[13:08:29] +EonX: band escav and ep diancie for sure
[13:08:32] +Astiraelin: i didnt follow much either
[13:08:47] +EonX: &atomicllamas: using blastoise > qwilfish, using a LO flygon w/ Fire Blast, and cm psycho shift sigi over the current cm set
[13:08:48] &d t c: and drill run > knock
[13:08:49] +Astiraelin: what does choice band do actually
[13:08:56] &atomicllamas: if ep is for m camel
[13:08:59] +Astiraelin: is it to get stronger damages off
[13:09:02] +Astiraelin: mega steelix
[13:09:05] &atomicllamas: sassy diancie isn't getting this off on it
[13:09:15] +EonX: yeah, calm over sassy was somthing i mentioned
[13:09:19] +EonX: along with 16 speed EVs
[13:09:19] +Astiraelin: i run sassy 84 speed
[13:09:24] +Astiraelin: it outpaces
[13:09:26] +Astiraelin: max speed camel
[13:10:51] +Astiraelin: i'm confused now are we trying to keep the pressure as much on mega steelix ?_?
[13:11:24] +EonX: like, band is escav's best set in the current meta imo
[13:11:55] +EonX: and slowking tends to run a fair bit of creep for tomb, especially with specs
[13:12:08] +EonX: so i kinda like not getting bopped by that if i can afford to
[13:12:27] @Arifeen ★: Can anyone tell me why we're keeping Escav here?
[13:12:35] @Arifeen ★: like how does the team benefit from it?
[13:12:52] +Astiraelin: specs slowking isn't that much used to not say never
[13:13:52] +Astiraelin: and being outsped or not by spiritomb barely matters
[13:14:01] +Astiraelin: i'm ok with CB though
[13:14:23] +Astiraelin: not sure what esca does on the team either
[13:14:27] @Arifeen ★: Yeah exactly
[13:14:49] @Arifeen ★: I think having a better Venu answer > Having a powerful mon which isnt doing much for the team
[13:14:50] +EonX: Make a Mew, what did you build this team around?
[13:15:03] +Astiraelin: that would help us a lot
[13:15:18] +Make a Mew: I build this team about sigi and virizion
[13:15:22] +Make a Mew: around
[13:15:36] +EonX: ok, then yeah, we can drop escav then i suppose
[13:15:54] @Arifeen ★: ya
[13:16:07] +EonX: that makes me want to retreat to some of the things llamas suggested
[13:16:07] @Arifeen ★: Also I'd love if we had a proper ttrum check too
[13:16:12] @Arifeen ★: cuz Flygon / Fish arent ideal
[13:16:46] +EonX: &atomicllamas: using blastoise > qwilfish, using a LO flygon w/ Fire Blast, and cm psycho shift sigi over the current cm set
[13:17:07] @Arifeen ★: still weak to Venu
[13:17:13] &atomicllamas: then change esca too a fight + venu check
[13:17:15] @Arifeen ★: We could run Registeel over Escav
[13:17:16] &atomicllamas: oo
[13:17:20] +EonX: garbodor
[13:17:21] +EonX: bam
[13:17:23] @Arifeen ★: Or actually
[13:17:26] @Arifeen ★: Garb/ Weezing
[13:17:37] +Astiraelin: weren't we struggling against mega steelix
[13:17:41] +EonX: i actually like weezing
[13:17:43] @Arifeen ★: yes so Weezing
[13:17:44] +Astiraelin: if so i'd give weezing a shot
[13:17:45] @Arifeen ★: is better
[13:17:47] +EonX: bc we get a ground immunity
[13:17:55] +EonX: venu check, fighting check, burn spreader
[13:18:03] +Astiraelin: kamisama_no49 had a cool
[13:18:04] +EonX: mega lix check
[13:18:06] +Astiraelin: mixed spread for it
[13:18:20] +EonX: cool, we could sure use it rn probably
[13:18:26] +kamisama_no49: oh, yeah
[13:18:38] +kamisama_no49: think it was, what, 252 hp / 24 def / 232 spd @ bold
[13:18:49] +Astiraelin: yea that was that
[13:18:49] @Arifeen ★: thats a good spread
[13:18:50] @Arifeen ★: oo
[13:19:15] +EonX: looks like heat
[13:19:39] +Astiraelin: is it worth going for tspikes or do we go for pain split
[13:19:45] +EonX: pain split
[13:19:48] +EonX: we have no wish support
[13:20:14] +kamisama_no49: yeah, if this is gonna be playing in as a fight check, i'd rather split
[13:20:32] @Arifeen ★: ya
[13:20:35] @Arifeen ★: Ok so
[13:20:40] +Astiraelin: sounds like
[13:21:00] @Arifeen ★: Weezing > Escavalier, Blastoise > Qwilfish, LO Flygon and CM Psychi Shift Air Slash Sigilyph
[13:21:08] @Arifeen ★: looks cool>?
[13:21:12] +Astiraelin: will o wisp spread from weezing can open doors for a sd virizion late game sweep
[13:21:19] +EonX: earth power and calm for diancie
[13:21:21] +EonX: with 16 speed EVs
[13:21:34] +EonX: so we can pressure mega camel reliably
[13:21:39] +Astiraelin: calm makes diamond storm much weaker
[13:21:42] +EonX: instead of basically losing a mon to it
[13:21:42] +Astiraelin: imo
[13:21:51] +EonX: do you lose key KOes tho?
[13:21:58] +Astiraelin: well, sigilyph
[13:22:14] +kamisama_no49: yeah, the big one has always been sigi can roost stall storm
[13:22:24] @Arifeen ★: cant it do anyways?
[13:22:29] +kamisama_no49: i think i have run 96 atk evs @ a neutral nature to prevent that
[13:22:31] +Astiraelin: i make sure diamond storm ohkoes in the first place
[13:22:32] +Astiraelin: personally
[13:22:37] &atomicllamas: psycho shift wins either way
[13:22:44] +Astiraelin: o
[13:22:46] +Astiraelin: good point
[13:23:14] +Astiraelin: so like how does sound
[13:23:16] +EonX: yeah, sassy doesn't guarantee the OHKO on offensive sigi
[13:23:28] +Astiraelin: weezing cb flygon lo houndoom > qwilfish escav bulky defog flygon
[13:23:43] +Astiraelin: it can with a little bit of investment
[13:23:44] +kamisama_no49: 92 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 288-338 (100.6 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
[13:23:47] +kamisama_no49: ok, was close
[13:23:50] +kamisama_no49: but yeah
[13:23:53] +kamisama_no49: @ changes
[13:24:14] &atomicllamas: what are the changes so far
[13:24:44] @Arifeen ★: Well both can work
[13:24:49] +Astiraelin: i just mentionned houndoom since you brought up the weakness to psycho shift cm sigilyph
[13:24:51] @Arifeen ★: Altho with Scythe's suggestions
[13:24:53] @Arifeen ★: we dont have hazard control
[13:25:07] +Astiraelin: ok well standard life orb defog then
[13:25:42] @Arifeen ★: Ok so
[13:25:44] @Arifeen ★: Weezing > Escavalier, Blastoise > Qwilfish, LO Flygon and CM Psychi Shift Air Slash Sigilyph
[13:25:48] @Arifeen ★: Make a Mew
[13:25:59] +Make a Mew: Thanks guys!
[13:26:03] +Astiraelin: wait
[13:26:14] +Astiraelin: did we suggest blastoise
[13:26:20] +EonX: llamas did
[13:26:21] &d t c: atomicllamas suggested blastoise
[13:26:29] +EonX: i brought that up three times
[13:26:48] +Astiraelin: let me link a proper import
[13:26:50] +EonX: bc nobody said anything about llamas's original ideas for changes
[13:26:52] +Make a Mew: If I may ask what is the spread that weezing uses?
[13:26:55] +Astiraelin: with new changes
[13:27:14] +EonX: 252 hp / 24 def / 232 spdef bold
[13:27:18] +Astiraelin: do we keep sigilyph or we don't
[13:27:20] +Astiraelin: ?
[13:27:26] @Arifeen ★: yes
[13:27:29] @Arifeen ★: CM Air Slash Psycho
[13:27:30] @Arifeen ★: ?
[13:27:53] +Astiraelin: it's a secondary venusaur check
[13:27:57] +Astiraelin: so why not yea
[13:28:21] +EonX: what spread are we using on sigi?
[13:28:22] +Astiraelin: id give focus sash sigilyph otherwise
[13:28:26] +Astiraelin: since we lacked speed control
[13:28:41] +Astiraelin: give a shot*
[13:29:02] +Astiraelin: standard 252 HP max speed
[13:29:21] @Arifeen ★: oo
[13:29:24] @Arifeen ★: CM Twave
[13:29:28] @Arifeen ★: lmao
[13:29:29] +Astiraelin: -
[13:29:30] @Arifeen ★: good set
[13:29:36] +EonX: he meant sash
[13:29:39] +EonX: as in t-wave 3 attacks
[13:29:43] @Arifeen ★: I was kidding
[13:29:43] @Arifeen ★: -
[13:29:56] @Arifeen ★: But ya, Twave 3 atks
[13:29:57] @Arifeen ★: is nice
[13:29:58] +Astiraelin: thoughts on
[13:29:59] +EonX: also, i kinda like the one with enough to OHKO viriz unboosted since we're a bit weak to it
[13:30:11] +Astiraelin: hypnosis =o
[13:30:23] +EonX: no
[13:30:30] +EonX: less accuracy than focus blast? no thank you
[13:30:32] +Astiraelin: oh does it miss out the ohko without investment
[13:30:39] +EonX: yeah, it needs 116 iirc
[13:30:46] @Arifeen ★: Dude Hypnosis
[13:30:47] @Arifeen ★: is God
[13:30:51] +EonX: cuz viriz is a bulky mofo
[13:31:03] +Astiraelin: hypnosis is mcm innovation e.e
[13:31:14] +EonX: !dt hypnosis
[13:31:14] /data-move Hypnosis
|raw|<font size="1"><font color="#686868">Priority:</font> 0&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Gen:</font> 1&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;&#10003; Bounceable&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Target:</font> One Adjacent Pokémon</font>
[13:31:17] @Arifeen ★: ok anyways I guess
[13:31:19] @Arifeen ★: we're done here
[13:31:19] &atomicllamas: hypnosis is broken if it hits
[13:31:20] @Arifeen ★: oo
[13:31:22] @Arifeen ★: ya
[13:31:28] +EonX: yes, i totally want a 60% accurate move on a mon
[13:31:46] @Arifeen ★: ok let's move on
[13:31:49] +Astiraelin: anyways llamas said that we would struggle against opposing cm sigilyph earlier
[13:31:54] @Arifeen ★: So Make a Mew I hope u got the changes
[13:31:55] +Astiraelin: hold on
[13:31:57] @Arifeen ★: ?
[13:31:57] &atomicllamas: nah I just meant
[13:32:03] &atomicllamas: psycho shift beats diancie
[13:32:09] &atomicllamas: regardless of sassy or calm
[13:32:16] +Astiraelin: it's an issue then
[13:32:21] +kamisama_no49: hypnosis is rad man
[13:32:24] +Make a Mew: Only one i miss is the EV spread that sigi and diancie have rn
[13:32:25] @Arifeen ★: true
[13:32:34] &atomicllamas: we are kinda weak to it I guess but SE viri and LO flygon helps
[13:32:56] @Arifeen ★: Ya u gotta hard switch to Flygon immediately
[13:33:01] @Arifeen ★: Well even then Draco doesnt kill
[13:33:06] @Arifeen ★: Thoughts on Bandgon over LO
[13:33:09] @Arifeen ★: cuz Stoise is spinner
[13:33:26] +EonX: that could work, but gon is likely dying after
[13:33:28] +Astiraelin: http://hastebin.com/cizuwihuvi.md
[13:33:31] +Astiraelin: that's what i have right now
[13:33:36] @Arifeen ★: in that case we could also run Heal Bell on Diancie
[13:33:46] &atomicllamas: who runs physical LO flygon
[13:34:02] +Astiraelin: earthquake is a (broken) move dude
[13:34:30] +EonX: i am personally not a fan of that diancie spread considering we lack wish support
[13:34:46] +Astiraelin: alomomola on last slot then
[13:34:51] +Astiraelin: with knock off
[13:34:57] +Astiraelin: since we struggled with flame orb sigilyph
[13:35:22] +EonX: that doesn't help against sigi that much. it can just wait to shift until diancie comes in
[13:35:29] @Arifeen ★: I mean we could always run Bandgon + Heal Bell Diancie
[13:35:30] @Arifeen ★: oo
[13:35:37] +EonX: hm, true
[13:35:49] +Astiraelin: thats pretty easily playable around eonx
[13:36:13] +Astiraelin: with knock off it at least spreads burn no more than once
[13:36:29] +Astiraelin: if we got heal bell that's definitely not an issue
[13:36:31] +EonX: and it's not like many people outside of me use cm sigi anyway
[13:36:36] +EonX: so meh
[13:37:15] @Arifeen ★: But we're missing on hazard control
[13:37:17] @Arifeen ★: oo
[13:37:27] @Arifeen ★: That means we gotta run Defog on LO Flygon
[13:37:36] @Arifeen ★: which isnt a __reliable__ hazard remover
[13:37:46] +EonX: well
[13:37:51] +EonX: it's not like we have mons that are weak to rocks
[13:37:59] +EonX: so we'd really only need it vs spikestack
[13:38:16] +EonX: and LO flygon can deal with removing spikes once
[13:38:17] @Arifeen ★: ur saying as if Spike stack is bad in RU?
[13:38:24] @Arifeen ★: Well I agree with that
[13:38:26] +EonX: since it pressures spikes users ez
[13:38:37] +EonX: and can kinda defog when it wants to vs them
[13:38:45] +EonX: except for against mega glalie
[13:38:47] @Arifeen ★: ok I agree
[13:39:03] @Arifeen ★: Well Mola can check Glalie
[13:39:06] @Arifeen ★: Somewhat
[13:39:07] +EonX: which we actually are laughably weak to rn
[13:39:14] @Arifeen ★: We gotta play around that ya LOL
[13:39:24] @Arifeen ★: See this is why Registeel is best mon
[13:39:41] +EonX: this is why freeze-dry ice-types in general are so good rn
[13:40:13] @Arifeen ★: Astiraelin atomicllamas kamisama_no49 d t c thoughts?
[13:40:26] +Astiraelin: we just sue impish
[13:40:27] +Astiraelin: use
[13:40:29] &d t c: are we still on
[13:40:30] &d t c: mew team
[13:40:45] +kamisama_no49: yeah, f'real
[13:40:45] @Arifeen ★: y
[13:40:47] +kamisama_no49: ~_~
[13:41:20] +kamisama_no49: uh, would not say i'm adamantly against it
[13:41:39] @Arifeen ★: If we use Impish Mola
[13:41:50] @Arifeen ★: we still get boned by Freeze Dry from Glalie
[13:41:58] @Arifeen ★: or do u mean Diancie Astiraelin
[13:42:25] +Astiraelin: impish mola with wish support for diancie is enough
[13:42:47] @Arifeen ★: Hmmm
[13:42:55] @Arifeen ★: Yeah true
[13:42:58] +EonX: go for it
[13:43:09] +EonX: i will rarely disapprove of mola + diancie core ever
[13:43:14] +EonX: bc that core is my bae <3
[13:43:23] +Ryoma Nagare: ok mcgiver
[13:43:26] +Astiraelin: i'm tryin gto find out the good
[13:43:29] +Astiraelin: impish mola spread now oo
[13:43:37] +Astiraelin: so that we can finally give mew the final import
[13:43:54] +EonX: isn't it just 120 hp / 136 def / 252 spdef?
[13:44:02] +Astiraelin: thats 136+ bold one
[13:44:36] +EonX: wouldn't impish just be the same though?
[13:44:44] +EonX: or does it need attack or smthn
[13:44:50] +Astiraelin: yea ill just do it i guess
[13:46:48] +Astiraelin: http://hastebin.com/ubavujikux.md
[13:46:51] +Astiraelin: that's how it is
[13:46:51] +Astiraelin: -
[13:46:55] +Astiraelin: is everybody fine ?
[13:47:24] @Arifeen ★: ya
[13:47:31] +EonX: ya
[13:47:34] +Astiraelin: atomicllamas we'll fight rupl tomorrow
[13:47:36] +Astiraelin: if that works for ya
[13:47:59] @Arifeen ★: ok that's ur team Make a Mew
[13:48:00] +EonX: i'm waiting on all these sunday fights to fall through the cracks bc of mother's day
[13:48:01] +EonX: tbh
[13:48:05] +Make a Mew: Thanks guys!
[13:48:07] (Make a Mew was demoted to Room regular user by Arifeen ★.)
[13:48:08] @Arifeen ★: np
[13:48:11] @Arifeen ★: d t c
[13:48:13] @Arifeen ★: ur turn
[13:48:21] +EonX: can i go last arifeen?
[13:48:30] &d t c: http://pastebin.com/P9q8AQpC
[13:48:35] +Astiraelin: brb guys
[13:48:44] @Arifeen ★: EonX after dtc its Ryoma Nagare
[13:49:03] +EonX: that's why i said last. bc i didn't know if someone was after dtc
[13:49:03] +EonX: xd
[13:49:36] @Arifeen ★: Uhh sure, it depends on how quickly we can finish
[13:49:41] @Arifeen ★: I can't stay up longer @_@
[13:49:45] @Arifeen ★: *much longer
[13:49:48] +EonX: riperino
[13:49:51] +EonX: ok
[13:50:33] @Arifeen ★: ok d t c it's built around Accelgor correct?
[13:50:37] &d t c: ye
[13:51:44] @Arifeen ★: Hmm
[13:52:17] &atomicllamas: why is this band rhyperior slower than alomomola oo
[13:52:28] &d t c: ye i should change that
[13:52:32] &d t c: i wanted a bulkier band set but its not worth it
[13:52:55] @Arifeen ★: Definitely a big weakness to Venusuar, Virizion, gonna have prob vs bulky water esp cuz they can toxic Viriz and then switch out and no heal bell
[13:53:10] &d t c: i dont have a big weak to venu
[13:53:11] &d t c: virizion maybe
[13:53:29] &d t c: also why would i have problems with bulky waters when i have accelgor band rhyp virizion and manectric
[13:53:38] +EonX: yeah, the venu weakness is basically he has no switch-ins. but i don't think any of his mons give saur a switch-in either
[13:53:56] +EonX: saur won't come in on viriz until it reveals stone edge
[13:53:56] &atomicllamas: you can run enough speed on uxie
[13:53:59] &atomicllamas: for timid venu too
[13:54:04] &d t c: its not worth it
[13:54:06] &d t c: you only 2hko venu
[13:54:07] &atomicllamas: its still super bulky
[13:54:14] &d t c: i originally had like
[13:54:16] &atomicllamas: yeah but you can yawn it
[13:54:17] &d t c: 244 speed
[13:54:19] &d t c: on uxie
[13:54:27] &atomicllamas: or you can kill off weakened ones
[13:54:30] &d t c: or maybe it was 240
[13:54:37] &atomicllamas: also isn't psychic > psyshock
[13:54:39] &d t c: w/e enough to outspeed base 80s
[13:54:43] &atomicllamas: I guess
[13:54:43] &atomicllamas: viri
[13:54:44] &d t c: virizion?
[13:54:46] &atomicllamas: nevermind
[13:54:50] +Ryoma Nagare: dtc it's 236
[13:54:55] &d t c: i dont think its worth giving up all the defense
[13:55:09] +Astiraelin: id
[13:55:13] +Astiraelin: give zen headbutt a shot
[13:55:16] +Astiraelin: on uxie
[13:55:32] @Arifeen ★: !dt uxie
[13:55:32] /data-pokemon Uxie
|raw|<font size="1"><font color="#686868">Dex#:</font> 480&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Gen:</font> 4&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Height:</font> 0.3 m&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Weight:</font> 0.3 kg <em>(20 BP)</em>&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Dex Colour:</font> Yellow&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Egg Group(s):</font> Undiscovered&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Does Not Evolve</font></font>
[13:55:34] &d t c: why zhb Arifeen
[13:55:36] &d t c: Astiraelin
[13:55:37] @Arifeen ★: !dt zh
[13:55:37] |html|<div class="message-error">No Pokémon, item, move, ability or nature named &apos;zh&apos; was found. (Check your spelling?)</div>
[13:55:38] +Ryoma Nagare: Don't they do
[13:55:43] @Arifeen ★: !dt zhb
[13:55:43] |html|<div class="message-error">No Pokémon, item, move, ability or nature named &apos;zhb&apos; was found. (Check your spelling?)</div>
[13:55:43] +Ryoma Nagare: Essentially the same damage
[13:55:45] +Astiraelin: lets you get stronger damage with what u turn can hit
[13:55:46] @Arifeen ★: -
[13:55:50] +Astiraelin: sneasel etc
[13:55:56] +Ryoma Nagare: !dt zen headbutt
[13:55:56] /data-move Zen Headbutt
|raw|<font size="1"><font color="#686868">Priority:</font> 0&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Gen:</font> 4&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;&#10003; Secondary effect&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;&#10003; Contact&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Target:</font> One Adjacent Pokémon</font>
[13:55:59] +Ryoma Nagare: !dt psyshock
[13:55:59] /data-move Psyshock
|raw|<font size="1"><font color="#686868">Priority:</font> 0&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Gen:</font> 5&nbsp;|&ThickSpace;<font color="#686868">Target:</font> One Adjacent Pokémon</font>
[13:56:03] +Astiraelin: there's just little cost is not using it
[13:56:05] &d t c: its for more u-turn dmg vs sneasel
[13:56:10] +kamisama_no49: its application is mostly in boosting u-turn, yeah
[13:56:12] +Ryoma Nagare: that makes sense
[13:56:12] +Astiraelin: if you're paranoid of misses tho dont listen to me
[13:56:14] &d t c: my problem is 10% miss
[13:56:20] +kamisama_no49: tho idk, it scald pivots a fair amount
[13:56:23] &d t c: when i might need it to check virizion
[13:56:28] +kamisama_no49: and the miss potential is eh also
[13:56:46] &d t c: solidsweeps also recommended zhb on virizion
[13:56:58] +EonX: i also like a faster spread on uxie in this meta
[13:57:02] +EonX: especially for this type of team
[13:57:28] +EonX: at least enough to outspeed adamant lee if that's still a thing
[13:57:43] &d t c: it shouldnt be a thing
[13:57:52] +Ryoma Nagare: Been seeing Jolly lee because of venusaur now
[13:57:55] &d t c: jolly is too importat on lee rn
[13:57:57] +kamisama_no49: jolly and / or scarf
[13:58:25] +Astiraelin: i personally creep max speed meloetta on my uxies but those run knock off
[13:58:48] +Astiraelin: subcm is an annoying threat for teams like that for example
[13:59:02] +Astiraelin: so at least you can slow pivot and break the sub on the process
[13:59:12] +Astiraelin: that was my point with impish uxie
[13:59:29] &d t c: eh i dont think im comfortable doing all that
[13:59:42] &d t c: so far its giving rhyp enough speed evs to outspeed mola
[13:59:51] +Astiraelin: use jolly CB lol
[14:00:02] &d t c: what does jolly outsped
[14:00:07] +Astiraelin: everything adamant doesn't
[14:00:11] &d t c: which i
[14:00:12] +EonX: blastoise i think
[14:00:12] &d t c: is
[14:00:14] @Arifeen ★: what are they
[14:00:14] +EonX: is the main thing
[14:00:19] &d t c: o blastoise is big
[14:00:31] &d t c: but its also super abusable
[14:00:33] @Arifeen ★: ya
[14:00:43] @Arifeen ★: But u have manec and viriz though
[14:00:57] +Astiraelin: i just run 252+ to not deal with all that mid tier speed creep
[14:01:27] &d t c: i mean there are people
[14:01:29] &d t c: that creep blastoise a bit
[14:01:31] &d t c: for jelli
[14:01:38] +EonX: there's also jelli and seis
[14:01:50] +Astiraelin: isnt blastoise already faster than jellicent
[14:01:54] @Arifeen ★: it is
[14:01:54] @Arifeen ★: ..
[14:01:56] &d t c: yes but there are fast jelli
[14:01:57] &d t c: oo
[14:02:00] @Arifeen ★: right
[14:02:03] &d t c: i like fast jelli
[14:02:09] +Astiraelin: i think that's pretty rare honestly lol
[14:02:10] +EonX: and seis outspeeds adamant perior
[14:02:14] +Astiraelin: well i'm myself a big fan of
[14:02:17] &d t c: thats tru
[14:02:17] +Astiraelin: timid bulky jellicent
[14:02:20] &d t c: maybe jolly might be better
[14:02:26] @Arifeen ★: lol Astiraelin
[14:02:31] @Arifeen ★: remember 231 Speed Jellicent
[14:02:32] @Arifeen ★: oo
[14:02:34] &d t c: does adamant get any nice kos/2hkos
[14:02:38] +Astiraelin: y
[14:02:42] @Arifeen ★: amazing set
[14:02:55] @Arifeen ★: it should 2hko mola
[14:03:04] @Arifeen ★: we need to calc jolly tho
[14:03:16] +Astiraelin: 252 Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 241-285 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
[14:03:28] +Astiraelin: that's considering it takes sr damage and gets two turns of lefties recovery
[14:03:28] +EonX: mola is so fucking fat
[14:03:30] +EonX: good lord
[14:03:34] &d t c: eh
[14:03:35] +Astiraelin: which results in a
[14:03:37] &d t c: id rather run adamant
[14:03:38] &d t c: then
[14:03:41] +Astiraelin: 89.1% of 2ohkoing in the end
[14:03:43] &d t c: just to be safe
[14:03:49] &d t c: bc i might not have SR up
[14:04:05] +Astiraelin: i think you're good between yawn/sr
[14:04:07] &d t c: well actually if i dont have SR up, then its a free switchin to manec / virizion
[14:04:19] +Astiraelin: yeah
[14:04:21] &d t c: it might be worth using jolly just for jellicent
[14:04:24] &d t c: since jellicent can be annoying
[14:04:45] +Astiraelin: you also prevent seismitoad for forcibly setting rocks
[14:04:49] +Astiraelin: so thats cool as well
[14:04:50] +Astiraelin: from*
[14:04:57] &d t c: im not a fan of scarf emboar on this team
[14:05:02] &d t c: but i felt like i needed it for sneasel
[14:06:07] +Astiraelin: hmm
[14:06:33] @Arifeen ★: Well cant we put a better mon that also check sneasel?
[14:06:36] +Astiraelin: yeah it sounds like it doesnt fit
[14:06:41] &d t c: maybe arifeen
[14:06:49] +Astiraelin: i was about to suggest
[14:06:53] @Arifeen ★: I mean u have Speed with Accelgor and Virizion
[14:06:53] +Astiraelin: specs poliwrath or something
[14:07:04] @Arifeen ★: I was about to suggest Gurdurr
[14:07:10] @Arifeen ★: but couldnt find a legit reason
[14:07:13] @Arifeen ★: Poliwrath looks neat
[14:07:15] &d t c: i like gurdurr
[14:07:16] @Arifeen ★: Lemme think
[14:07:21] &d t c: more than wrath idea
[14:07:25] @Arifeen ★: Ya it gives a better check to Lix
[14:07:31] @Arifeen ★: no I'm liking Wrath here
[14:07:37] +Astiraelin: i mean the team is so opened to psychics now
[14:07:39] @Arifeen ★: Altho we're weak as hell to Grass
[14:07:40] +Astiraelin: that's annoying
[14:07:43] &d t c: meh im not the biggest fan of specs poliwrath
[14:07:56] +Astiraelin: that would bee a fight regardless
[14:07:57] @Arifeen ★: Yea we gotta do sth for Grass and Psychic
[14:08:26] @Arifeen ★: I mean best option rn is Drapion but that doesnt beat Virizion
[14:08:27] @Arifeen ★: D:
[14:08:43] &d t c: scarf drap
[14:08:43] @Arifeen ★: dude I'm 90% leaning to Scarf Drapion
[14:08:44] @Arifeen ★: rn
[14:08:44] &d t c: oO
[14:09:03] &d t c: i kinda need a pursuit mon
[14:09:04] &d t c: anyways
[14:09:34] +Astiraelin: well the team started from accelgor/uxie right
[14:09:38] @Arifeen ★: y
[14:10:24] +EonX: pursuit is def nice if we can afford it considering we have a slow-ish u-turn user
[14:10:54] &d t c: ok
[14:10:58] &d t c: so scarf drap > scarf boar
[14:10:58] &d t c: ?
[14:11:09] @Arifeen ★: ya it seems like the best option
[14:11:19] &d t c: also gives me tspikes absorption
[14:11:24] @Arifeen ★: ya
[14:11:24] +EonX: +2 252 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 24+ Def Uxie: 163-193 (46 - 54.5%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
[14:11:29] +EonX: also, we're ok vs viriz
[14:11:51] &d t c: hmm
[14:11:53] &d t c: tspikes in last slot?
[14:12:22] &d t c: or should i use something like eq
[14:12:40] @Arifeen ★: Knock Pursuit Jab could go for Tspikes or Aqua Tail / EQ
[14:12:48] &d t c: ima go eq
[14:12:52] &d t c: even tho it doesnt do much to mlix
[14:13:11] +EonX: hm
[14:13:19] @Arifeen ★: whats the point then lol
[14:13:21] +EonX: aqua tail could actually be cute for AA aero
[14:13:26] @Arifeen ★: SPeaking of Lix
[14:13:30] &d t c: arifeen because doing something
[14:13:32] @Arifeen ★: We have no switchins
[14:13:33] &d t c: is better than doing nothing
[14:13:33] &d t c: oO
[14:13:39] &d t c: uxie switchins and yawns + u-turn
[14:13:41] &d t c: but its not the best
[14:13:53] +EonX: arifeen, what offensive team has a reliable mega lix switch-in?
[14:13:56] +EonX: let's be real here
[14:14:01] @Arifeen ★: truee
[14:14:13] +Ryoma Nagare: air balloon + magnet rise magnet pull mag
[14:14:14] +Ryoma Nagare: GG
[14:14:26] +EonX: you got me
[14:14:26] &d t c: CB rhyp can switch into heavy slam
[14:14:29] &d t c: kinda
[14:14:34] @Arifeen ★: ye
[14:14:37] @Arifeen ★: Well I guess
[14:14:43] @Arifeen ★: U gotta play around lix
[14:14:43] @Arifeen ★: oo
[14:14:53] &d t c: ill prob lose a mon to lix
[14:15:05] +EonX: well
[14:15:09] +EonX: if it switches into mane
[14:15:12] +EonX: you OHKO with overheat
[14:15:13] +EonX: straight up
[14:15:17] @Arifeen ★: Actually
[14:15:21] +EonX: and most manes run flamethrower
[14:15:24] @Arifeen ★: everything except drapion
[14:15:26] +EonX: which lix lives
[14:15:27] @Arifeen ★: can check lix
[14:15:32] @Arifeen ★: so just play smart
[14:15:47] +EonX: another reason i like aqua tail on drap
[14:15:52] &d t c: eh im gong to go tspikes
[14:15:55] +EonX: is bc it beats fires while still doing something with mega lix
[14:15:55] @Arifeen ★: hits rhy
[14:15:56] @Arifeen ★: oo
[14:15:59] @Arifeen ★: also tha
[14:16:01] @Arifeen ★: t
[14:16:06] &d t c: unless i want to go adamant cb rhyp
[14:16:07] @Arifeen ★: Lets u hit emboar
[14:16:09] &d t c: i should go w/ tspikes
[14:16:13] &d t c: o emboar
[14:16:13] @Arifeen ★: for which u lack a switch in to as well?
[14:16:15] &d t c: thats annoying
[14:16:20] @Arifeen ★: y
[14:16:23] &d t c: i might go adamant cb rhyp then
[14:16:28] &d t c: so i can ko with aqua tail --> cb rhyp eq
[14:16:38] &d t c: or EQ
[14:16:45] @Arifeen ★: u could just go adamant Drapion
[14:16:49] @Arifeen ★: I mean what are u missing on
[14:16:50] &d t c: i need adamant
[14:16:51] &d t c: on both
[14:16:53] &d t c: scarf jolly lee
[14:17:00] @Arifeen ★: y thats only thing
[14:17:04] +EonX: 252 Atk Drapion Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 216-256 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
[14:17:08] @Arifeen ★: which I believe Uxie + Virizion checks
[14:17:09] @Arifeen ★: oo
[14:17:09] +EonX: not hard to get that damage
[14:17:13] +EonX: considering its emboar
[14:17:15] &d t c: im going to go
[14:17:16] &d t c: adamant eq
[14:17:21] @Arifeen ★: ok
[14:17:35] +EonX: 252+ Atk Drapion Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 238-280 (65.9 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
[14:17:38] @Arifeen ★: ok then we're done here
[14:17:40] &d t c: ok this team is done
[14:17:40] &d t c: ye
[14:17:42] @Arifeen ★: I think?
[14:17:44] &d t c: Ryoma Nagare next
[14:17:45] @Arifeen ★: ok cool
[14:17:50] @Arifeen ★: Ryoma Nagare next and last
[14:17:54] @Arifeen ★: cuz I gotta sleep after this
[14:17:55] @Arifeen ★: @_@
[14:18:00] +EonX: sleep is overrated arifeen
[14:18:02] +EonX: lol
[14:18:10] +Ryoma Nagare: http://pastebin.com/35bZTS0T
[14:18:11] @Arifeen ★: Dude it's past midnight and I gotta wake up at 6am
[14:18:28] @tibbz: lol
[14:18:40] +Nedor: yo rmt
[14:18:49] @Arifeen ★: Okay Spikes stack with Defog is a big no-no imo
[14:19:15] &d t c: all he has is tspikes drap
[14:19:29] @Arifeen ★: Still Tspikes + Braviary is amazing
[14:19:38] +kamisama_no49: yeah, i wouldn't call it an objective thing
[14:19:38] &d t c: ye
[14:19:48] +Ryoma Nagare: Really did not want to run Blastoise since I've already got momo + diancie
[14:19:48] &d t c: tspikes + brav is v good
[14:19:55] &d t c: but idk if its worth
[14:19:59] &d t c: using toise for
[14:20:01] +kamisama_no49: tspikes are the kinda thing you wont necessarily be playing until midgamein a lot of cases
[14:20:09] +Ryoma Nagare: And I don't wanna capitalize on the venusaur weakness even more
[14:20:18] +Ryoma Nagare: Also for refenrences the drap spread outspeed timid hoops
[14:20:21] @Arifeen ★: Well I guess
[14:20:23] +Ryoma Nagare: reference*
[14:20:28] +EonX: question
[14:20:30] &d t c: Ryoma Nagare maybe use knock off on momo then
[14:20:32] +EonX: does that braviary outspeed exploud?
[14:20:46] +Ryoma Nagare: that could be worth investing on EonX
[14:20:51] +EonX: it definitely is imo
[14:20:58] +EonX: so it doesn't shoot you down once you're setup
[14:21:00] @Arifeen ★: no u need a fuckton speed for that and I dont think it's THAT worth esp when u have Diancie
[14:21:02] +Ryoma Nagare: It's something I go back and forth with d t c
[14:21:07] &d t c: he has diancie + avest hariyama
[14:21:15] +EonX: ik he has checks
[14:21:16] +Ryoma Nagare: Drap can also knock off exploud
[14:21:18] +EonX: but if brav is setup
[14:21:24] +EonX: i don't want to have to switch out just to avoid dying
[14:21:29] @Arifeen ★: U could run Knock on Mola and Weezing over Drapion as a better Venu answer
[14:21:48] @Arifeen ★: I mean EonX Exploud will never switch in on Braviary
[14:21:51] &d t c: dont u need +spdef nature on momo then
[14:21:52] @Arifeen ★: It's gonna try to rk
[14:22:01] +EonX: that's my point
[14:22:22] +EonX: and diancie and av yama could very well be weakened by late-game
[14:22:28] +EonX: or just pressured by other shit
[14:22:32] &d t c: also what exactly is av yama for Ryoma Nagare
[14:22:34] +Ryoma Nagare: 1. Running drap to patch up a hoopa weakness
[14:22:36] +Ryoma Nagare: Aboma
[14:22:47] &d t c: o right
[14:22:53] @Arifeen ★: I mean u have mola to check Hoopa and Melo
[14:23:08] +EonX: yeah, careful mola can check those
[14:23:23] +Ryoma Nagare: hm
[14:23:42] &d t c: eh i wouldnt call mola
[14:23:44] &d t c: a good melo check lol
[14:23:48] +Ryoma Nagare: Imean whole point of this team is
[14:23:54] +Ryoma Nagare: Defensive drap + subbu mola
[14:23:54] @Arifeen ★: It gets the job done d t c
[14:24:05] +Ryoma Nagare: also going afk for a tad bit
[14:24:17] &d t c: specs does a ton to momo, cm gets past momo
[14:24:23] &d t c: the 4 attack melo gets owned
[14:24:52] @Arifeen ★: Judging from an offensive perspective, Sawk over Hariyama could be nice as it also appreciates Tspikes, or to a better degree, you could also try Medicham (better option imo), as it gives u a form of speed control + Pursuit support from Drapion
[14:25:24] &d t c: he rly shouldnt just have momo imo
[14:25:27] &d t c: for melo
[14:25:46] +Ryoma Nagare: yeah I could go for that
[14:25:53] +Ryoma Nagare: Again a bit worried about aboma now
[14:26:04] +Ryoma Nagare: But I guess drap can sorta keep it in check
[14:26:17] +Ryoma Nagare: surprised still no opinions on gon set
[14:26:19] &d t c: if you knock off aboma
[14:26:21] &d t c: its kinda meh
[14:26:31] &d t c: its not hard to check aboma
[14:26:38] @Arifeen ★: I'm ok with Flygon set
[14:26:38] &d t c: hes just rly hard to have a counter for
[14:26:44] @Arifeen ★: I think it's a decent set lol
[14:26:53] &d t c: ya i like stone edge flygon
[14:26:58] @Arifeen ★: Although iirc Spirit had a nice spread
[14:27:04] @Arifeen ★: that was like 68 Attack
[14:27:36] &d t c: u need 140 atk for rock slide flygon
[14:27:46] &d t c: so 40 might be sufficient
[14:28:02] +EonX: for what? exactly?
[14:28:07] &d t c: idr
[14:28:14] &d t c: it was a few things i think
[14:28:18] &d t c: because rock slide is weak
[14:28:22] +EonX: i'm going to assume sigi
[14:28:27] &d t c: sigi was 1 of them
[14:28:48] &d t c: anywyas im not sure how necessary yama is yea
[14:28:58] @Arifeen ★: I mean
[14:28:59] +EonX: it pressures sigi, but it doesn't KO it at all
[14:29:08] @Arifeen ★: Abomasnow is rare + u can play around
[14:29:23] @Arifeen ★: I dont see it to be a bigger issue than not having any Speed control / hard hitters
[14:30:02] +EonX: 40 is enough for rock slide to OHKO fletch
[14:30:09] @Arifeen ★: Wait
[14:30:17] @Arifeen ★: Fletch lives an unboosted Rock Slide????
[14:30:18] @Arifeen ★: :O
[14:30:36] @Arifeen ★: Why isn't that suspected yet LOL
[14:30:36] +EonX: no, i'm trying to figure out what 140 attack was for
[14:30:41] @Arifeen ★: oh
[14:30:48] +EonX: bc nobody seems to remember
[14:30:51] &d t c: fletch isnt broken
[14:30:51] &d t c: oo
[14:31:02] &d t c: its just the most reliable wincon
[14:31:10] &d t c: aside from arguably virizion
[14:31:58] @Arifeen ★: So thoughts on Knock on Mola and Scarf Medicham>Yama?
[14:32:19] +EonX: mola should almost always have knock yh
[14:33:02] @Arifeen ★: Well I think it's fine now
[14:33:04] +EonX: medi is a nice wincon vs offense
[14:33:07] @Arifeen ★: y
[14:33:17] +EonX: and brav + tspikes bones defensive builds
[14:33:30] @Arifeen ★: yep
[14:33:38] +EonX: also
[14:33:45] +EonX: while we're on the topic of brav
[14:34:04] +EonX: in case you want to test it, the spread for outspeeding exploud is 252 hp / 200 spdef / 56 spe jolly
[14:34:29] @Arifeen ★: ya Ryoma Nagare give that a try too oo
[14:34:46] +EonX: it's also v. nice for adamant emboar
[14:34:51] +EonX: to lessen pressure on mola
[14:35:02] @Arifeen ★: ye
[14:35:04] @Arifeen ★: Anyways
[14:35:07] @Arifeen ★: I think we're done here
[14:35:23] +EonX: but yeah, knock on mola and scarf medi > yama
[14:35:26] +EonX: and it's fine
[14:35:36] @Arifeen ★: Ok let's end the workshop then oo
[14:35:45] @Arifeen ★: Special thanks to atomicllamas 49 Scythe d t c and EonX :D
[14:35:47] +Ryoma Nagare: Wait so the changes suggested are
[14:35:57] @Arifeen ★: knock on mola and scarf medi > yama
[14:36:03] +Ryoma Nagare: that's it?
[14:36:06] @Arifeen ★: yh
[14:36:09] @Arifeen ★: it's a solid build
[14:36:10] @Arifeen ★: otherwsie
[14:36:14] +EonX: and test 252 hp / 200 spdef / 56 jolly on braviary
[14:36:19] @Arifeen ★: that too
[14:36:20] +EonX: to outspeed exploud and adamant emboar
[14:36:22] +Ryoma Nagare: I could work on that
[14:36:24] &d t c: spirit uses
[14:36:27] &d t c: jolly on subbu brav
[14:36:34] +Ryoma Nagare: Aside from the struggle vs offense
[14:36:45] &d t c: scarf medi should help a lot
[14:36:49] +EonX: max speed jolly dtc?
[14:36:50] +Ryoma Nagare: I could keep yama for preferential issues ig right?
[14:37:03] &d t c: no eonx lol
[14:37:10] +Ryoma Nagare: >max speed subbu
[14:37:10] &d t c: o are you talking about
[14:37:11] +EonX: ok good
[14:37:11] &d t c: medi
[14:37:15] @Arifeen ★: Ya if u want no offensive pressure and make it a semi stall then sure
[14:37:16] +Ryoma Nagare: ye ye
[14:37:23] +Ryoma Nagare: The whole point if the team is
[14:37:26] +Ryoma Nagare: semistall :o
[14:37:33] @Arifeen ★: ok o_o
[14:37:39] @Arifeen ★: anyways let's end this workshop
[14:37:41] @Arifeen ★: thanks everyone :D