#vr discussing samsara

<Eric> new meta just in
<Eric> bj completely unstoppable on any map with unique
<Eric> literally unkillable
<CactusHege> stopped by a bj
<Eric> chex and ranger don't have shit on this
<Eric> chex's shield is pretty great, but it's not perfect and splash damage just doesn't give a fuck
<Ramen> told
<Eric> ranger can spam like crazy, but you shoot him and he dies like anyone else
<Eric> bj on a map with a unique? it's not even possible
<Eric> you shoot him, but then he teleports off to the other side of the map and gets a free megasphere just in case
<Soundwave> In my defense, dwango 07 is pretty much a map where BJ can rock
<Ramen> no item respawn :^)
<Soundwave> open areas and easy unique+slot 4
<Eric> and you still only barely beat me, had to go into sudden death while constantly sniping me :^)
<Ramen> normally duels are dealt with no item respawn due to berserk's and soulsphere hogging though
<Ramen> and because of shoot
<Eric> how is that even remotely balanced
<Ramen> it's not supposed to be
<Eric> chex gets a free instant soulsphere, sure
<Eric> that's nice and all, it's just a soulsphere
<Eric> fits his role of tank pretty well
<Eric> bj gets something completely and infinitely better than a soulsphere though
<Eric> a teleport to safety and a free megasphere when he gets shot, that can't be bypassed by just doing more damage
<Eric> because, you know, being able to just shit on everyone from afar with hitscans wasn't good enough
<_sink> so I'm about to play painkiller: black edition
<_sink> what should I expect
<Eric> really badass weapons
<Soundwave> Eric, update to BJ
<Soundwave> He is only good with the unique
<Soundwave> If a map lacks unique, you gonna get 15-0'd
<Soundwave> update to BJ's meta*
<Soundwave> i eat words, sorry
<Ramen> chaingun isn't shit you know
<Ramen> it's a half second kill if you can keep you aim on-target
<Soundwave> Good luck getting it when you either don't spawn nearby
<Soundwave> or when there is only ONE spawn
<Soundwave> of chaingun
<Soundwave> also good luck doing this while dealing with a douk with ult
<Ramen> also 5 shots with the MP40 will down someone, good luck with aiming though
<Ramen> also if the map has an ult, it's your game if you adquire it
<Ramen> that spear gets people from across the fukken map  like it's nothing
<Soundwave> My last 2 matchs will make me a BJ scrub
<Soundwave> camp unique
<Soundwave> get chaingun
<Eric> spear is a lot like the wraithverge, it looks real scary but if you don't panic it's no biggie
<Soundwave> mow people
<Medicris> unless on nightmare mode
<Medicris> then wraithverge is fucking unstoppable
<Ramen> fuck nightmare
<Eric> yeah, but so is everything
<Soundwave> Chex and ranger are notable to dominate skill 4
<Soundwave> Not sure about BJ
<Medicris> other things dont get double speed homing projectiles that move twice as fast as you do
<Eric> ranger always dominates, regardless of skill level
<Soundwave> But yeah, i think the new meta might be BJ+chex
<Soundwave> Not anymore, recoil is butts
<Medicris> chex is basically the awper to me
<Eric> so turn it off, why would you have it on in the first place
<Soundwave> Snipa waffle
<Medicris> the slz is the awp in function, purpose and trickshotting
<Eric> awp doesn't have SICKASS REBOUNDS tho
<Soundwave> So the SLZ is now superior to the awp?
<Eric> and it can't consistently oneshot anyone except maybe douk
<Medicris> same shit as fapping to some quickscope
<Eric> m8
<Eric> rebounds are infinitely more hype to land
<Medicris> ye
<Medicris> my point just is the slz is like an awp in a lot of ways: it's a onehittable sniper, it has its counters but anyone who can aim well enough is enough to bypass them, and it has trickshot potential
<Ramen> when do we get MLG420YOLO montagues of people using slz
<Medicris> except you get multiple chances to hit with it and you dont need to use other weapons first to earn it
<Eric> slz is probably still the slot 3 weapon that needs the highest skill to use properly
<Ramen> no, that's the fustol.
<Soundwave> Nope
<Soundwave> E.crossbow
<Eric> m8 that just shoots a bunch of projectiles that completely ignore armor
<Medicris> eh, doesnt travel as fast as an slz shot, has smaller hitbox and does 80-100 dmg
<Ramen> slow fucking projectiles, takes 3 hits to kill people and it alerts of your position at all times if you charge the altfire
<Medicris> and doesnt bounce
<Medicris> also ye it's noisy
<Eric> among slot 3s it's kind of weird because it's not a big slow burst damage gun
<Medicris> its altfire is but yeah usually it's not
<Eric> but it's still very powerful and not nearly as punishing to miss with as the SSG or SLZ
<Ramen> you can spam the altfire pretty quickly if you know when it can fire (ie, not at the end of the charge sound)
<Medicris> with the downside of lower range, kinda SO as a whole there
<Ramen> and well, it's more of a high-power suppresion weapon, like most of the SO's weaponry, the thing about it is that it's somewhat more accurate and it's projectiles are slower and visible
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<Eric> i've said this before but SO's motif seems to boil down to "spam more projectiles" and little more than that
<Medicris> I'd just figure sec to both be really strong and really weak at the same time, and definitely not something I'd call "reliable"
<Ramen> SO is sneaky breeki and spam once you get near
<Medicris> well yeah, sec would be op as fuck if his bullet weps were hitscan
<Ramen> he's situational.
<Ramen> small maps? beast, open fields? you're toast.
<Eric> i mean, dual-wield shotguns, automatic rifle that also shoots grenades at the same time, hard to get spammier than a flamethrower
<Soundwave> Someone said that SecOff is the thinking man's class
<Medicris> it can be, weapon choice at any given moment is extremely important
<Eric> everything about him irritates me and it's why i don't play him at all
<Ramen> hell, his pistols aren't even something to laugh at if you get a few lucky hits from long range
<Soundwave> But in my opinion and in terms of efficiency, the MA-75, TOZT and west-m5 are pretty much the only things you should luck
<Soundwave> wait
<Soundwave> did i said luck instead of use?
<Ramen> ... yes
<Soundwave> Someone slap me
<Medicris> rockets are his ssg, except with way more pronounced strengths and weaknesses
<Eric> like, reloading weapons, okay
<Medicris> a double shot rocket launcher with long reload
<Eric> reloading weapons that i have no control over when i reload them? not okay
<Soundwave> Very
<Soundwave> Long
<Soundwave> Reload
<Ramen> you can shoot both of them and quickly swap to another weapon and it'll be loaded once you rise it again
<Medicris> yeah, marathon was the first fps to introduce reloading so the concept of "reloading" was to just empty the mag to get a new one
<Soundwave> That until Goldeney
<Soundwave> goldeneye
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<Medicris> yeah, swapping during a rocket reload isnt gonna speed it up, it doesnt lower or raise any faster whether you change to another weapon or are reloading
<Ramen> actually it does reload as you rise it again and switching weapons makes it lower faster.
<Medicris> but it is nice to swap to another weapon when needed and know you have a loaded rl on hand
<Medicris> I never noticed tbh
<Ramen> it's like 1-2 tics faster
<Ramen> nothing really great
<Soundwave> 1-2 tics over maybe 12 tics of reload sounds like a better choise
<Soundwave> Unless i am wrong with the tic count
<Medicris> nah he's saying the difference between the two methods is 1-2 tics
<Soundwave> o
<Medicris> so you dont gain anything
<Medicris> iono, I find sec fun because he has a lot of quirks to his play
<Medicris> and it's a fun challenge getting gud with the shotguns and whatnot
<Soundwave> wstems are gud
<Medicris> zandro netcode doesnt help
<Soundwave> carncode doesnt help"
<Ramen> he is more about when and what to bring on x area and why, proper planning on a engagement is much more important as him rather than your shooting or twitch skill
<Soundwave> fix it for ye
<Ramen> which is what makes him so hard to play as
<Medicris> yeah his entire meta is "USE X WEAPON NOW AND IF YOU USE SOMETHING ELSE YOU'RE FUCKING UP"
<Medicris> and that weapon changes by the second
<Medicris> spnkr's basically his only option that can handle most things but its reload is exploitable
<Ramen> SPNKr's an all-or-nothing weapon most of the time, if you miss, you're fucked.
<Medicris> ye
<Soundwave> The same could be said of most of his weapons
<Soundwave> Hell, SecOff is both the thinking man and the gambler's class
<Medicris> cept ma-75, it's made to not be that
<Soundwave> You gotta go all or nothing while using some of his weapons
<Medicris> get close and personal, hose him down and land grenades where you can
<Medicris> funny because in marathon it's a lot tougher to use
<Medicris> you had to be nearly pointblank to make it count because everyone has 150% health in comparison to this and projectiles move a lot slower
<Soundwave> Y'know
<Soundwave> I hate duel 32
<Soundwave> Most of the maps have wonky layouts
<Soundwave> I will host CGI with samsara and fork out some duels
<Soundwave> tomorrow of course
<Soundwave> but for now
<Soundwave> I am poofing out
<Soundwave> its "light up the night" AM
<Soundwave> (4:00 AM)
<Eric> you know i have to wonder how the laz shield handles bfg tracers
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<Eric> is it even possible for an actor to block those?
<Medicris> most of the maps are built for vanilla doom and no freelook/autoaim on
<Medicris> o
<Medicris> quit
<Ramen> eric they're basically hitscans, i don't see how it wouldn't block them
<Eric> yeah but i mean can it effectively block them
<Eric> like if you get a face full of tracers, will it manage to actually absorb all 40 or will some sneak through
<Ramen> some will probably sneak through
<Medicris> kkv is really good in dm buuuuuut
<Medicris> not in maps often
<Medicris> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwJrvSXMVec&t=2m22s yep
<Ramen> it's advantage is how accurate it is, use it in a hallway and enemies have no escape, the lack of ammo hurts it badly though
<TerminusEst13> <Eric> bj completely unstoppable on any map with unique
<TerminusEst13> SO HOW YOU GUYS LIKIN' THAT NEW BUDDHA
<Medicris> so yeah like
<Medicris> new meta is bj + chex are top tier?
<TerminusEst13> With the reflect fixes and new Buddha, they are almost and literally unkillable, respectively.
<Ramen> ... does the reflect fix also work with the push altfire fist?
<TerminusEst13> Yes.
<Ramen> i haven't got time to try it, is it reliable?
<Medicris> well shit
<TerminusEst13> Yes. Yes, it is.
<Eric> new meta is bj with unique > chex with ult > ranger > chex without ult > everyone else > bj without unique
<TerminusEst13> It is so reliable it's not even funny.
<TerminusEst13> rip smarmass dm
<TerminusEst13> you had a good run
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<Medicris> maybe DM isnt so bad'
<Medicris> duel, ehhhhhhhhhhh
<Ramen> are reflect air-shots hype?
<Eric> if duel has been disrupted this bad, you know dm's gotta be a complete and utter shitfest now
<Medicris> like, with dm at least you have multiple people around the map to hunt down blazes and to surround chex ulters
<Eric> not that it wasn't before, with ranger being able to completely destroy games with mindless w+m1
<Medicris> hey eric
<Medicris> wanna fix samsara
<Eric> i almost do want to do just a pvp patch
<TerminusEst13> Be my guest.
<Medicris> I mean, there's a half dozen or a dozen minor-ish bugs to fix afaik
<Medicris> and then the rest is just balance things
<Medicris> then it can be left alone forever
<TerminusEst13> Lord knows it'd probably be refreshing to work on a project that the community actually likes.
<Eric> oh, i doubt they'd like it
<Eric> we would, sure
<Eric> but anyone who mains anything that's on the list to get changed won't be happy
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<Medicris> all I can think of would be fixing ranger's rockets to be more faithful (which would also balance them), fixing a few bugs like nailgun recoil, maybe toning down what you get back when you respawn with an extra life
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<Medicris> hell, respawning with an extra life should probably strip you of weapons and ammo and give you your default stuff back
<Medicris> the ability to deny a frag point to someone is enough of a bonus imo
<Medicris> as is being able to survive with a life in survival
<Eric> yeah, since you can't just bruteforce past it anymore being able to not only keep your current shit but also get a free megasphere is just outrageous
<Ramen> remove megasphere and resistance effect and you're good with the extra life
<Medicris> I'd say so
<Medicris> eric already has a github so we can branch from there iirc
<Ramen> o, nice
<TerminusEst13> So let's start up a list, then.
<TerminusEst13> 1: Slow Ranger's rockets, unique particle trail, not as goddamn many rockets on picking up gl/rl.
<Medicris> iirc rockets were bigger and brighter in quake than they are in smarmass too
<TerminusEst13> 2: Lower radius on Chexshield/allow things to penetrate/remove reflection in PvP/SOMETHING TO NERF THAT FUCKING SHIELD
<Medicris> might have to look ingame again
<Eric> yeah, that's a problem that affects basically ranger's everything
<Eric> dude has natural camo with his non-translatable colors being all dark brown
<TerminusEst13> 3: Remove resistance in PvP for Bjoo's extra life, possibly remove equipment/ammo?
<TerminusEst13> 4: Fulldamageradius for SO's explosions
<Medicris> o fuck god damn fulldamageradius
<Medicris> hello spnkr
<TerminusEst13> sup
<Medicris> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro3am00Xopk&t=1m38s damn this stuff is fun though
<Medicris> gotta remind myself to play more
<TerminusEst13> 5: Something for Corvus? Needs a lot of love in PvP.
<Eric> corvus's problem is overreliance on his ult
<Eric> without it, he's really weak
<Eric> with it, he's goddamn unstoppable unless you have the shield
<TerminusEst13> 6: REMOVE THE GODDAMN DAMAGE BUFF ON NIGHTMARE WHAT THE FUCK
<Medicris> he's like doomguy in a lot of ways, except every single attack has the chance to roll CRITICAL FAILURE
<Eric> phoenix rod is fairly reliable
<Eric> i'd say it's the one weapon that gets hurt the most from the tome
<TerminusEst13> Yeah that flamethrower is 200% shit.
<Medicris> I'd speed up the projectiles
<Medicris> for pvp
<Eric> hellstaff gets hurt pretty bad too, i never once took any damage from the rain even when soundwave spammed it all over the place
<TerminusEst13> Only two rainclouds can be active at the time because ????
<Medicris> it's more for area denial than real combat
<TerminusEst13> Actually I assume because FPS reasons.
<TerminusEst13> If that limit was removed it'd probably be even better for area denial.
<Medicris> well, because otherwise it'd be super easy to do this.
<Medicris> 1. point down
<Medicris> 2. hold m1
<Medicris> 3. run all over the map
<TerminusEst13> Ah, yeah.
<Medicris> 4. TOTAL DOMINATION TOTAL DOMINATION TOTAL DOMINATION TOTAL DOMINATION TOTAL DOMINATION TOTAL DOMINATION
<Eric> no easier than doing the same with the firemace and letting everyone choke on your BALLS OF STEEL
<Medicris> yeah but at least you have to sit still to do that
<Eric> really, most of corvus's weapons get weaker when tomed in pvp
<Eric> the only ones that actually get definitive buffs are the crossbow, gauntlets, and wand
<Eric> everything else gets drawbacks and may or may not actually be less effective as a result
<Eric> anyway i gotta sleep, pls to pastebin this stuff so i can read it when i wake up
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