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Eelweral

Patriarchy

Eelweral
Sep 22nd, 2012
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  1. [04:02] 18<modulus> Morn.
  2. [04:03] 18<adamclose> mourn.
  3. [04:09] 23* 23Forge has quit (23Ping timeout: 248 seconds23)
  4. [04:10] 18<kilobug> hola
  5. [04:10] 18<adamclose> heya.
  6. [04:15] 18<mimoid> modulus: how do i program something without an electronic computer
  7. [04:15] 18<mimoid> are there not mechanical computers available to teach programming
  8. [04:15] 19* 19iLogical (~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical) has joined ##marxism
  9. [04:19] 18<Sweden> OH GODDAMMIT
  10. [04:22] 18<modulus> mimoid: hmm
  11. [04:22] 18<mimoid> Sweden: whta
  12. [04:22] 18<modulus> i don't know, mechanical computers would be very slow, large, and probably unreliable
  13. [04:22] 18<modulus> i've been hearing some noises about fluid computing though
  14. [04:22] 18<mimoid> unreliable? just use gray codes
  15. [04:23] 18<mimoid> ooh fluids
  16. [04:23] 18<Sweden> I got banned from 80% of the channels I'm in because my connection fucked up bad time when I was asleep
  17. [04:23] 18<modulus> Sweden: heh
  18. [04:23] 18<modulus> did you do in-out-in-out all night long?
  19. [04:23] 18<Sweden> YEP.
  20. [04:24] 18<Sweden> I love you too, universe <3
  21. [04:24] 23* 23iLogical has quit (23Read error: Connection reset by peer23)
  22. [04:24] 18<Sweden> A shame I was banned from #feminism already
  23. [04:26] 18<mimoid> high five Sweden
  24. [04:26] 18<mimoid> i got banned for saying the word 'autism' with no context
  25. [04:27] 19* 19Forge (~Forge@unaffiliated/forge) has joined ##marxism
  26. [04:27] 22* 26ChanServ gives voice to26 Forge
  27. [04:28] 18<Sweden> I lost it when they all agreed on people being racist/sexist for not being attracted to POC and transpeople respectively.
  28. [04:28] 18<Sweden> I see their point. You may judge a person shallow for their tastes, but as an ideology you stay away from people's personal tastes.
  29. [04:29] 18<mimoid> POC?
  30. [04:30] 18<KarlMarx> people of colour
  31. [04:30] 18<mimoid> Sweden: Erika_Mustermann is likely a counter revolutionary, do you think we need to update you-know-what?
  32. [04:31] 18<Sweden> No, I don't know what :(
  33. [04:32] 18<mimoid> o09:29 < Sweden> I lost it when they all agreed on people being racist/sexist for not being attracted to POC and transpeople respectively.
  34. [04:32] 18<mimoid> I actually have to agree with this
  35. [04:32] 18<mimoid> in the strict sense of sexism
  36. [04:32] 18<mimoid> i believe any recognition of gender is sexism
  37. [04:32] 18<Sweden> oh
  38. [04:32] 18<mimoid> any knowledge of race is race-ism
  39. [04:32] 18<Sweden> hm
  40. [04:32] 18<mimoid> we must destroy both race and gender
  41. [04:33] 18<mimoid> glorious androgeny shaved heads and marching down halls
  42. [04:33] 18<Sweden> It was a very fuzzy issue I decided to leave on
  43. [04:33] 18<adamclose> ... if only we could hide their breasts or force men to wear skin-tight onesies.
  44. [04:33] 18<adamclose> oh, wait...
  45. [04:34] 18<Sweden> But the fact that their rules do say that you aren't allowed to think differently is... well
  46. [04:35] 18<KarlMarx> destroying gender doesn't mean androgeny
  47. [04:35] 18<KarlMarx> because that is a gendered term
  48. [04:36] 18<KarlMarx> it means stop applying gendered labels to every action we do "masculine", "feminine", etc.
  49. [04:36] 18<mimoid> yes this is now like
  50. [04:36] 18<KarlMarx> it means living not having to care about if you're confirming or not
  51. [04:36] 18<mimoid> 'after the revolution there are no more proles or bourgeois
  52. [04:36] 18<mimoid> it is post-class
  53. [04:37] 18<mimoid> honestly the patriarchy is pretty nice in that is lets lower tier men get laid
  54. [04:37] 18<mimoid> all we get with liberation, feminism, liberalization and sexual capital is...
  55. [04:38] 18<KarlMarx> yeah
  56. [04:38] 18<mimoid> 8000BC sexuality
  57. [04:38] 18<mimoid> one male lots of females
  58. [04:38] 18<mimoid> marriage doesn't exist
  59. [04:38] 18<mimoid> most men go through life without a female mate and fail at being sexually validated
  60. [04:39] 18<mimoid> either through their own will or coercion females flock to a top 10% of males who are grossly oversexed
  61. [04:39] 18<mimoid> I am the 1% but I feel for betafags
  62. [04:39] 18<adamclose> what the fuck are you talking about?
  63. [04:39] 18<Sweden> oh mimoid you so alpha
  64. [04:39] 18<adamclose> does this have a point?
  65. [04:40] 18<mimoid> adamclose: Yes. The patriarchy is fairly useful for evenly distributing sexual capital.
  66. [04:41] 18<mimoid> People would wretch at the idea of some kind of egality forced via other means because patriarchy is so human and natural and is distinct from any material base
  67. [04:41] 18<adamclose> what is the history of patriarchy?
  68. [04:41] 18<mimoid> you can't work it into marxism
  69. [04:41] 18<adamclose> eh
  70. [04:41] 18<adamclose> do you understand the history of patriarchy?
  71. [04:41] 18<adamclose> of marriage?
  72. [04:41] 18<mimoid> adamclose: probably early societies defining marriage, courting and mating rituals
  73. [04:42] 18<adamclose> why?
  74. [04:42] 18<adamclose> why was marriage important?
  75. [04:42] 18<mimoid> It wasn't and isn't
  76. [04:42] 18<mimoid> I suppose it had some sort of social advantage over societies that did not have it
  77. [04:42] 18<adamclose> it was, and is ... see the christian right.
  78. [04:42] 18<mimoid> because the ones that do are dominant
  79. [04:42] 18<adamclose> it was to ensure the lineage of wealth from father to son.
  80. [04:42] 18<mimoid> the christian right isn't important
  81. [04:43] 18<adamclose> it was a means by which women were subjugated to the defining characteristic of "producing sons"
  82. [04:43] 18<mimoid> i don't consider anything below energy and mass measurements at the galactic level mattering, in fact the entire human race is mostly noise
  83. [04:43] 18<adamclose> wealth and inheritance is important when you talk about social interactions
  84. [04:44] 18<adamclose> remember, wealth is a social thing.
  85. [04:44] 18<mimoid> I don't know the history of it but I don't want to learn about it in piecemeal conversation over IRC
  86. [04:45] 18<adamclose> marriage is logistically the lineage of wealth ... in short. to ensure fathers gave to sons and sons could give to their own sons.
  87. [04:45] 18<adamclose> marriage allowed for women not to be "promiscuous" such that "i might give my wealth to another man's son."
  88. [04:46] 18<adamclose> purely a social contract.
  89. [04:47] 18<mimoid> i like this contract
  90. [04:47] 18<adamclose> love it or hate it ... that's what it is.
  91. [04:48] 18<adamclose> that's a social contract built into the social compact of many countries.
  92. [04:49] 18<adamclose> that's where the origin of "finding a provider husband" come from (because men make more than women, thus can gain more wealth .. it's not worth it for women to work.)
  93. [04:49] 18<mimoid> do you ever think that it has some sort of evopsych base
  94. [04:49] 18<mimoid> seems hardwired to an extent
  95. [04:50] 18<adamclose> it's not hardwired, see the feminist movement.
  96. [04:50] 18<adamclose> however
  97. [04:50] 18<adamclose> culturally, it's drilled into us day after day
  98. [04:50] 18<adamclose> "oh, sweetie, you don't have to be smart, you just have to attract a wealthy husband."
  99. [04:51] 18<mimoid> 09:51 <+adamclose> it's not hardwired, see the feminist movement.
  100. [04:51] 18<mimoid> they just deny it
  101. [04:51] 18<mimoid> i'm pretty sure we judge mates without the need for much intellect
  102. [04:51] 18<adamclose> okay, consider you and a woman have the same exact credentials and business experience ... do you deserve more money than she does?
  103. [04:51] 18<mimoid> "she looks healthy" DAMN GIRL DAT ASS
  104. [04:51] 18<adamclose> *deserve*
  105. [04:51] 18<mimoid> No, of course not.
  106. [04:51] 18<adamclose> not "should make" or otherwise "want"
  107. [04:51] 18<mimoid> i'm not talking about that
  108. [04:52] 18<adamclose> mate selection is actually somewhat biological
  109. [04:52] 18<mimoid> almost entirely
  110. [04:52] 18<adamclose> but the social compact of how women are raised is different.
  111. [04:52] 18<adamclose> in the world they're raised in
  112. [04:52] 23* 23ArrowLance has quit (23Remote host closed the connection23)
  113. [04:53] 18<mimoid> yes they assess the connections of a man, his self-confidence and material wealth
  114. [04:53] 18<mimoid> they are more social because they need to know of wealth
  115. [04:53] 18<mimoid> and how to measure it in a mate
  116. [04:53] 18<adamclose> yes and no ... biological is "whether this man can provide for me and my children," not necessarily "how many yachts can he buy?"
  117. [04:53] 18<mimoid> yes they are combined
  118. [04:54] 18<mimoid> 'how many yachts can he buy' is just human intellect built on the base 'can he provide'[biological]
  119. [04:54] 18<adamclose> no, it doesn't really matter if he makes $10 mil or $100 mil... he can provide.
  120. [04:54] 18<adamclose> the answer is "yes"
  121. [04:54] 18<mimoid> for most women of course
  122. [04:55] 18<Sweden> Well
  123. [04:55] 18<mimoid> we both agree i'm not sure what we are talking about
  124. [04:55] 18<Sweden> More wealth is safer?
  125. [04:55] 18<Sweden> Bigger margins.
  126. [04:55] 18<adamclose> in comparison to what? when you have a few at the very top and most at the bottom, it's very unlikely you're going to marry rich.
  127. [04:57] 18<mimoid> the wealth at the top will have harems
  128. [04:57] 19* 19ArrowLance (~FoFo@c-98-232-233-10.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined ##marxism
  129. [04:57] 22* 26ChanServ gives voice to26 ArrowLance
  130. [04:57] 18<mimoid> but that isn't really relevant
  131. [04:57] 18<adamclose> of course it is
  132. [04:57] 18<mimoid> i did not consider that there is a 50/50 split
  133. [04:57] 18<adamclose> socially
  134. [04:58] 18<mimoid> it wont have enough impact to take away enough females from the pool of them all
  135. [04:58] 18<adamclose> the ones biologically selected as adequate mates...
  136. [04:58] 18<adamclose> the poor is left to mate with the toothless hag with three breasts and 17 toes.
  137. [04:59] 18<Sweden> awesome. three breasts.
  138. [04:59] 18<adamclose> hmm.
  139. [04:59] 18<Sweden> and hey
  140. [04:59] 18<Sweden> No teeth, better blowjobs
  141. [04:59] 18<adamclose> ... because that's the important part.
  142. [04:59] 18<Sweden> OF COURSE IT IS
  143. [04:59] 18<Sweden> :)
  144. [04:59] 18<adamclose> nevermind the fact that she may perpetuate a less healthy offspring due to degraded teeth.
  145. [05:00] 18<mimoid> doesn't this shit make you want to kill yourself
  146. [05:00] 18<mimoid> LOVE IS OVER
  147. [05:00] 18<mimoid> IT HAS BEEN QUANTIFIED
  148. [05:00] 18<adamclose> love, in many ways, is over
  149. [05:00] 18<adamclose> but that's a social change
  150. [05:00] 31<Boilerplate>30 Promicious women didn't exist until modern times?
  151. [05:00] 18<mimoid> I honestly believe that humans need magical thinking and mysticism for love to be realized
  152. [05:01] 18<mimoid> most people are fucking morons so it works really really well
  153. [05:01] 18<adamclose> it's a social change toward myspace, facebook, e-harmony, christiansingles, jbook, etc.
  154. [05:01] 18<mimoid> but you see all these eggheads that are virgins or with no children
  155. [05:01] 18<mimoid> you know
  156. [05:01] 18<mimoid> i'm just going to
  157. [05:01] 18<adamclose> cry?
  158. [05:01] 18<mimoid> be a petit-bourgeoise bro
  159. [05:01] 18* GameOver licks adamclose
  160. [05:01] 18<mimoid> and BUY women
  161. [05:01] 18<mimoid> literally
  162. [05:01] 18<mimoid> i'll snatch them up on the markets of poor economies
  163. [05:01] 18<mimoid> and they'll be my wives
  164. [05:01] 18<mimoid> and when i die
  165. [05:01] 18<mimoid> i'll have them buried with me
  166. [05:01] 18<adamclose> i hear many are for sale on www.hotrussianslookingforgreencards.com
  167. [05:02] 18<mimoid> i'm pretty fucking serious too
  168. [05:02] 18<adamclose> how degrading is that to the women?
  169. [05:02] 18<mimoid> anti social personality disorder is a superpower
  170. [05:02] 18<adamclose> there is the saying that "everyone has their price"
  171. [05:02] 18<adamclose> but, literally ... on a market?
  172. [05:02] 18<adamclose> being viewed as chattle
  173. [05:02] 18<adamclose> slaves
  174. [05:02] 18<mimoid> i didn't mean like a meat market
  175. [05:02] 18<adamclose> oh wait...
  176. [05:02] 18<mimoid> that is ridiculous
  177. [05:02] 18<mimoid> i meant it in the economic sense
  178. [05:02] 18<Sweden> right
  179. [05:02] 18<mimoid> everything is buyable and sellable
  180. [05:02] 18<adamclose> but it is
  181. [05:02] 18<adamclose> it's a social implication of such
  182. [05:03] 18<mimoid> sure
  183. [05:03] 18<mimoid> i don't care, just know that you can buy small girls in vietnam for about 120 USD circa 2010
  184. [05:03] 18<mimoid> delicious organs
  185. [05:03] 18<adamclose> ahahahaha
  186. [05:03] 18<mimoid> what i'm serious
  187. [05:03] 31<Boilerplate>30 "Wives" as the same soundsing as "Slaves" almost
  188. [05:03] 18<adamclose> i'm sorry, actual research into the prospect? that's fucking awesome.
  189. [05:03] 18<Nebula42> how repulsive
  190. [05:04] 18<mimoid> adamclose: i'd say more but then you'd stop talking to me or think about calling somone
  191. [05:04] 18<adamclose> no, i think your logic is horrendous, but it's a learning experience.
  192. [05:04] 31<Boilerplate>30 Also did promicious women existed before modern times?
  193. [05:04] 18<adamclose> it's getting me "outside the box."
  194. [05:04] 18<mimoid> adamclose: do you know ANYTHING about human trafficking
  195. [05:04] 18<adamclose> stopping so-called "groupthink"
  196. [05:04] 18<Sweden> We've been around for a while, surely they must have existed somewhere
  197. [05:04] 19* 19jacobian (~rowan@79.97.150.114) has joined ##marxism
  198. [05:04] 22* 26ChanServ gives voice to26 jacobian
  199. [05:04] 21<mimoid>21 Boilerplate: whores of babylon
  200. [05:04] 18<adamclose> mimoid; yes, but not how much they charge on the market.
  201. [05:05] 18<Sweden> I heard native american women could have several husbands
  202. [05:05] 18<mimoid> jacobian: adamclose says my logic is bad because i want to buy other human beings with money
  203. [05:05] 18<mimoid> I don't get that, really.
  204. [05:05] 18<adamclose> AHAHAHAHAH
  205. [05:05] 18<adamclose> alright, sarcasm heard.
  206. [05:05] 18<mimoid> no really i don't
  207. [05:06] 18<adamclose> received and understood.
  208. [05:06] 18<mimoid> i'm not sarcastic
  209. [05:06] 18<mimoid> no
  210. [05:06] 18<adamclose> you don't see the issue with purchasing human beings?
  211. [05:06] 18<adamclose> slaves?
  212. [05:06] 18<mimoid> no
  213. [05:06] 18<mimoid> human rights don't exist
  214. [05:06] 18<adamclose> what if i purchased you? would that make you uncomfortable?
  215. [05:06] 18<mimoid> ┐('～`；)┌
  216. [05:06] 31<Boilerplate>30 Purchasing human beings is disgusting
  217. [05:06] 18<mimoid> adamclose: you can't though, i'm rich white western and armed
  218. [05:07] 18<mimoid> i wouldn't like it at all
  219. [05:07] 18<mimoid> and i wouldn't allow it
  220. [05:07] 18<mimoid> but that is because that is me
  221. [05:07] 18<mimoid> other people don't matter as much
  222. [05:07] 18<adamclose> oh, but you think others willingly put themselves on the market (aside from prostitution)
  223. [05:07] 18<adamclose> ah, right
  224. [05:07] 18<mimoid> oh no, of course not
  225. [05:07] 18<adamclose> individualistic.
  226. [05:07] 18<mimoid> coercion is everywhere
  227. [05:08] 18<mimoid> if i don't coerce her captors with money then i have to coerce a woman here domestically with whatever other wealth(sexual, social, money, etc) I have
  228. [05:08] 18<adamclose> yeah, but who's to say that you are richer, whiter or more armed than me?
  229. [05:08] 18<mimoid> and maybe with the help of the patriarchy it will be easier
  230. [05:08] 18<adamclose> i can purchase you.
  231. [05:08] 31<Boilerplate>30 It's a another manfestion of property
  232. [05:08] 18<adamclose> you are not a human, you are a product, just as i purchase cheese
  233. [05:08] 18<adamclose> or milk
  234. [05:09] 18<mimoid> adamclose: I don't think you understand. You're saying these things for the sake of argument. THey wont happen. I'm STATING these things because I intend to do them and they are my honest goals and opinions.
  235. [05:09] 18<Sweden> Can you own chimpanzees?
  236. [05:09] 18<mimoid> Yeah.
  237. [05:09] 18<mimoid> you can rent one for sex in south africa
  238. [05:09] 18<Sweden> tmi.
  239. [05:09] 18<mimoid> you're just not libertine enough
  240. [05:09] 18<adamclose> mimoid; no, i'm saying these things because it intrigues me that your knuckles don't drag when you walk.
  241. [05:09] 18<Sweden> Obviously.
  242. [05:09] 18<Nebula42> lol
  243. [05:10] 18<mimoid> adamclose: p. good burn
  244. [05:10] 18<mimoid> maybe i should just start saying 'muh spooks'
  245. [05:10] 18<adamclose> mimoid; some humility ...
  246. [05:10] 18<adamclose> that's fantastic.
  247. [05:10] 18<mimoid> oh i'm pretty depersonalized
  248. [05:10] 18<mimoid> i don't feel humility
  249. [05:11] 18<mimoid> people can mistakenly think i've displayed something
  250. [05:11] 18<adamclose> you did just then
  251. [05:11] 18<mimoid> but it just is not there
  252. [05:11] 18<Sweden> mimoid is a Nobody
  253. [05:11] 18<Sweden> The shell of a human whose heart has been stolen.
  254. [05:11] 18<mimoid> SO ANGRY I AM A HUMAN BEING GOD DAMN IT SWEDEN
  255. [05:11] 18<Sweden> yeah. god damn it Sweden.
  256. [05:12] 18<mimoid> *pretends to be hardcore and evil on irc*
  257. [05:12] 18<mimoid> *is mocked*
  258. [05:12] 18<Sweden> wait so
  259. [05:12] 18<adamclose> i actually understand that.
  260. [05:12] 18<adamclose> conversation for the sake of conversation ... "negative attention is better than no attention."
  261. [05:13] 18<adamclose> i'm not saying that's what you're doing
  262. [05:13] 18<adamclose> but
  263. [05:13] 18<adamclose> taking the devil's advocate position
  264. [05:13] 18<mimoid> It is EXACTLY what I've been doing since day one here
  265. [05:13] 18<mimoid> It is EXACTLY why I am not a troll but something else entirely
  266. [05:13] 18<adamclose> yeah, sub-human.
  267. [05:13] 18<adamclose> it's amazing you can communicate.
  268. [05:14] 18<Sweden> sub-human
  269. [05:14] 18<Sweden> Soooo. Can we buy him now?
  270. [05:14] 18<mimoid> I actually have a BA in Communications
  271. [05:14] 18<mimoid> yes, a BA
  272. [05:14] 18<Sweden> mimoid: Is that even worth anything?
  273. [05:14] 18<adamclose> hmm
  274. [05:14] 18<mimoid> apparently 63,000 USD a year
  275. [05:14] 18<Sweden> oh but
  276. [05:14] 18<mimoid> for a subhuman that is pretty good
  277. [05:14] 18<adamclose> hah, touche.
  278. [05:15] 18<adamclose> you know, in a lot of ways the philosophies and social/cultral values are regional.
  279. [05:15] 18<adamclose> even in the us
  280. [05:16] 18<mimoid> but I think I found a new way at attention in marxism
  281. [05:16] 18<mimoid> take the things it rejects, like 'bougeois' human rights and democracy
  282. [05:16] 18<Sweden> and advocate them
  283. [05:16] 18<mimoid> then set yourself in agreement while loading yourself into the trojan horse of egoism
  284. [05:17] 18<mimoid> which will eventually, imperceptively, lead to randism
  285. [05:17] 18<adamclose> in a lot of ways, that's actually helpful to the conversation, such that it provide more "disproven theories," so to speak.
  286. [05:17] 18<Sweden> bluh rand
  287. [05:17] 18<mimoid> bluhuhuhuh -- hank hill
  288. [05:17] 18<adamclose> randism ... nice, that's new.
  289. [05:18] 18<adamclose> like keynesian economics, or "randian"
  290. [05:18] 18<mimoid> note to self: adamclose has the tendency to dehumanize those he grossly disagrees with
  291. [05:18] 18<adamclose> yeah, i noticed that as i spoke the words.
  292. [05:18] 18<adamclose> "knuckle dragger"
  293. [05:18] 18<adamclose> well, hindsight
  294. [05:18] 18<mimoid> note to self: he has enough self relfection to acknowledge this but will write it off somehow
  295. [05:19] 18<adamclose> no, i'm not writing it off.
  296. [05:19] 18<mimoid> note to self: you are writing your personal notes in the main irc channel, you should switch to emacs in the other xterm
  297. [05:19] 18<adamclose> i actually sincerely apologize for such
  298. [05:19] 18<adamclose> it was very inconsiderate as i condemned you for the exact activity i was committing, as i was doing it.
  299. [05:19] 18<Sweden> mimoid: xterm? Bitch please, rxvt-unicode.
  300. [05:19] 18<mimoid> i don't care about your insults because i can only be insulted in a very specific way that takes time, in meatspace, to figure out
  301. [05:20] 23* 23agnosticnixie has quit (23Quit: I overthink therefore I am too much23)
  302. [05:20] 18<mimoid> Sweden: stop being a hipster
  303. [05:20] 18<adamclose> mimoid; it's not always about you.
  304. [05:20] 18<Sweden> Never
  305. [05:20] 18* adamclose smirks
  306. [05:20] 18<Sweden> dammit
  307. [05:20] 18<mimoid> adamclose: i don't acknowledge your agency
  308. [05:20] 18<mimoid> okay? geeeeeeeeeeeez yolo
  309. [05:20] 19* 19agnosticnixie (~agnosticn@unaffiliated/agnosticnixie) has joined ##marxism
  310. [05:21] 18<Sweden> put your seat belt on #yolo
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