Foremost Fuckhead: Damn Aurx.
Foremost Fuckhead: You got Celt all worked up over the name thing.
YF-12: Yeah, he's gone from portending doom to just slandering me.
YF-12: Which I don't really mind, but he's not making arguments I can really use as feedback right now.
Foremost Fuckhead: I mean, i agree that it's a dumb plan.
Foremost Fuckhead: It's been tried before and it did nothing but result in an admin schism
Foremost Fuckhead: Why're you so stubborn about this?
YF-12: I
Foremost Fuckhead: A LOT of the admins seem to be disagreeing with you on this.
Foremost Fuckhead: And it doesn't look like the playerbase actually wants this change either.
YF-12: I'm digging my heels in because we had outragously terrible names and nobody was doing anything about it while I was getting a couple players complaining to me about it.
YF-12: We're not a heavy RP server, but we aren't a zero-RP server either so we need some basic standards.
YF-12: And the standards we did have were being ignored and not enforced
Foremost Fuckhead: Sure, but there's plenty of decent players with names that wouldn't be acceptable.
Foremost Fuckhead: Like Dr. Steve.
Foremost Fuckhead: And Postal Dude, actually.
Foremost Fuckhead: Who did roleplay as Postal Dude.
Foremost Fuckhead: Why not just quietly handle terrible names the way it's always been done?
Foremost Fuckhead: Just bwoink them and gib the really bad offenders.
Foremost Fuckhead: Instead of causing a big public drama and trying to enforce naming rules
Foremost Fuckhead: 'cause whatever's going on now seems to just be backfiring big time.
YF-12: Because I don't want it to be one 'min doing something, I want to have it be known that we have some basic standards.  If I just jumped on bad names, there'd be just as much if not more backlash.
YF-12: It's generating LOADS of drama, yeah, but it's working.  I rarely see objectionable names when I log in.
Foremost Fuckhead: Also
Foremost Fuckhead: Why not do a poll?
Foremost Fuckhead: See what the players actually think.
Foremost Fuckhead: This is the perfect example of a time where polls would be useful.
Foremost Fuckhead: And then there's the weird thing going on where you don't want people to join with a title in their name
Foremost Fuckhead: BUT they can go to the HoP and get it changed?
YF-12: Character name and ID name are different things.
Foremost Fuckhead: Why does it matter so much, though?
Foremost Fuckhead: Where's the harm in someone going around as Dr. X
Foremost Fuckhead: X being their name, not the letter X
YF-12: Honestly, I'd love to permit that.  But the issue is in laying out a clean set of guidelines that are reasonably non-subjective while shutting down the really objectionable names.  I'd have loved to have laxer standards than what I'm enforcing right now, but nothing I can think of would shut down the shit names while permitting the good ones other than making it blatantly and completely subjective.
YF-12: The issue with a poll is that it brings out extremists to try and spoof the results, and that you get insane amounts of drama if you hold a poll and don't blindly obey the results.  If I held a poll and one more player said "I don't like this rule" than "I like this rule", then instant shitstorm no matter how many people voted or abstained.
Foremost Fuckhead: How is that better than forcing something that's dividing the playerbase, though.
Foremost Fuckhead: At least you've got something to point to and go "look, the majority wanted it. democracy, bitches"
Foremost Fuckhead: Instead of pushing something very few people seemed to ask for
Foremost Fuckhead: To the point of admins just straight up refusing to enforce it
YF-12: I can already say with confidence that the majority doesn't give a fuck, just because I can watch the server and see who says what.  There's a decent quantity of people up in arms, but if apathy is the presiding response than a poll won't give useful information.
YF-12: Most people are silent on the matter, and that makes an opt-in poll useless due to nonresponse bias
Foremost Fuckhead: Does it, though? Not voting is a vote in and of itself.
YF-12: Not voting is a vote in and of itself, yes, but the poll won't show that.  So I can't point it and say "See, most people don't give a fuck".
Foremost Fuckhead: No, but it's not about the people that don't care.
YF-12: I'd have to bring in an external source, and that would NOT be how it'd be presented.
Foremost Fuckhead: It's about the people that want to get rid of the shit names
Foremost Fuckhead: Versus the people that don't want to.
Foremost Fuckhead: People that don't particularly care either way don't matter
Foremost Fuckhead: And right now your justification for this is "a few people came to me and complained about the names"
Foremost Fuckhead: And now a "few" people are complaining about these new rules
Foremost Fuckhead: Don't they get a voice?
YF-12: My justification is that we're a low-medium RP server and we were generating complaints about zero-RP server style content.  Now we're generating complaints about enforcing low-medium RP rules.
YF-12: We have ALWAYS had measures for minimum standards on names
Foremost Fuckhead: Why don't you revert this rule change, and open a discussion thread.
YF-12: They just weren't enforced, which is why we're in this mess
Foremost Fuckhead: So people actually get an input on the new rules.
Foremost Fuckhead: Because being stubborn about it isn't going to solve any problems.
Foremost Fuckhead: And admins refusing to enforce the rules is a bit of a problem i'd say.
YF-12: >isn't goint to solve any problems
YF-12: >name quality improved greatly
YF-12: Looks to me like the issue is solved.
Foremost Fuckhead: Admins not listening to the headmin seems like a bigger issue to me than fucking names.
Foremost Fuckhead: /vg/ used to pride itself on not being an ivory tower kind of deal like TG was.
Foremost Fuckhead: Don't let it become that way by just ignoring criticism.
Foremost Fuckhead: Where's the harm in just opening a discussion thread and asking for player input
Foremost Fuckhead: See what kind of names the server wants and what they don't.
YF-12: Non-response bias.  Right now, just like if I had opened a thread before doing this, people with something to lose would flip out and fill it up while people without something to lose would generally ignore it.  Whenever you have a situation like this, public response is unreliable at the best of times.  And when you DO ask for public input, the presented majority becomes gospel and sacrosanct if you dare cross it.
Foremost Fuckhead: So you on your own making a decision like this is supposed to be better?
YF-12 is now Offline.