Transcript Evan Interview

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This conversation was sponsored by Dash.

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Digital Money made simple.

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(Juan) Hello, we're here at LABitCoin 2015

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In Mexico City. And I'm joined by

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Evan Duffield, the lead developer of Dash.

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Which is the Number 5 Cryptocurrency

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As far as Market Cap goes.

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How's your day going?

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(Evan) Well, the day's going fantastic.

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It's been a really exciting conference so far

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(Juan) Exellent. Alright, so there's a lot happening

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this, this conference are you going to be

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... it's going to be a big announcement

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from Dash, but before we get into that

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... which is Dash Evolution,

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I wanted to ask you about

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one of the last update that you did

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to Dash which is the Governance Model.

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And maybe, could you explain about

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how it works and then tell us

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how the voting process has gone

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how the incentives are working out?

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(Evan) Yah, absolutely. So essentially

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the governance model is built

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on top of the second tier and...

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and maybe we should back up a little bit

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to talk about the layering of the

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infrastructure and how it works.

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So, we have collateralize full nodes

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on the network.

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And, these are simply full nodes that have

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1000 dash input that's attached to them.

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And that's essentially their identity

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on the network.

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And then based off of this, we can do

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neat things. Since we know

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who these people are according

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to their blockchain identity

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they can do secure communication,

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for example. So we can do

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secure voting on the network.

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You pool them together as a

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giant group of thousands of nodes

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and you can then ask them questions

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quarry them about, you know,

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should we do this or should we

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do that and that's generally

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what the governance model is.

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(Juan) And a key aspect of that is

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that it protects against Sybil attacks.

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So if you actually want to try to

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subvert the network in some way

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you have to pay 1000 dash to

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be able to have a vote, which is

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a considerable amount of money.

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So, how has the - well the governance

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model, I think I can explain - I think -

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and you correct me if I'm wrong, but -

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basically the inflationary - the predictable

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inflation of Dash - a portion of that has

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been assigned to projects that are

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voted on by the community.

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And if the right amounts of votes

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happen, if people approve it, then

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that money goes towards, whatever,

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marketing, legal fees, particular sections

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of development, which allows the

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development of the technology and the

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network to be decentralized and internal

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to the network rather than be funded by

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MIT who's got connections to the White House

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or a bunch of other big companies, right?

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It's pretty critical advancement.

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So how is the voting process work so far?

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(Evan) So essentially what we're going for

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is something I refer to as Decentralized Sovereignty.

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We want to stay decentralized as we grow

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and as a crypto-currency, we want to maintain

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our sovereignty. We don't want to be controlled

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by any of the existing systems.

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Because, this thing has to survive for a very,

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very long time without being lead astray by

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the powers that be, you know?

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And so we've built these systems very carefully

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to, to be adaptive to the current state

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and the current powers that be.

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The governance system is not inflationary

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and the budget system particularly, because

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we allocate a piece of the reward to the

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system and they actually can't go over that

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piece (allocated budget) and that's 10% of the monthly

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the block reward that they're allowed to spend.

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If they don't spend all of it, it's actually burned.

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And so it never gets created. And so it's actually

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a deflationary aspect of the currency then.

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(Juan) Does it require a limited amount of votes

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to be able to allocate the reward?

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Like 20% of the network have to vote, or

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something like that, and if they don't

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the money does not get created?

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(Evan) So essentially what happens is

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we have many proposals on the network

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and lets say we have 10 proposals.

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And then we rank them by the amount of

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support that they have. And so the first one

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lets say we have 80% of the network that voted

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positively on this, that one definitely gets paid.

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And the next one is 70%, and the next one is

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65% and these are added to the total budget

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until we reach the point where all of the budget

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money is taken at which point we stop paying out

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the budgets, so that's generally how it works.

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(Juan) Right, right, so it's predictable sort of

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inflation and it might not inflate if it doesn't

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fit the right rules. So lets talk about

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some of the ideas you're going to be

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talking about here in the conference.

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and this won't go public until later, so...

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So one of them is the decentralized API (DAPI)

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And I'm not sure I understand what it is.

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I believe it's a way that clients can connect

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to the network and utilize technology...

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maybe you can tell us a little more

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about what it is?

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(Evan) Sure, so the idea behind the

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second tier network is that you have this

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collateralize second tier which in our network

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is about 40% of the total coins, so it's Sybil proof.

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And, based off of that you do the voting,

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you do the funding, you do the governance.

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And then all of these new ideas showed up,

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which we've been using, and we can do so many

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things that we had never thought of.

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And so, one of these is this decentralized API (DAPI)

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and in simple terms, what we want to do is

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create a mobile interface where you can

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talk to the network through, that acts as a centralized

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API except it's not. And we do actions

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on the network that are group actions.

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And so what happens is, when you

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do a decentralized API request, it gets

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executed on 7 servers at the same time.

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And these are deterministically ‎picked

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by the proof of work, so you can't fake

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that portion, and they all do the same thing,

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they get the same result and they sign it

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with their private keys. They return to you the

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result and the 7 signatures.

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Therefore you know if anything was

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tampered with.

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Based on this, we can implement really neat features.

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So since we have the second tier,

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what if you put storage, so if you require storage on each

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individual node on the second tier.

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Now, suddenly we have about 40 terabytes of storage

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on the network - sharded. And so,

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we can store things like friends lists, and

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your transaction history and things like that

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that are encrypted, so when you log in,

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you log in with a user name, you log in with your

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password, you request the information from

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the network itself, like "Hey, who are my friends"

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you know, try to get my private data, you decrypt it

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and suddenly you're up to date with everything.

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And now you can send money to friends by name.

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Because, if you and me were friends on the network,

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we would negotiate keys between us so I would

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know your next 5 keys, you would know my next

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5 keys, and I could pay you by name.

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I would burn one of the keys, you would send me

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another one and then rinse and repeat.

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And so this is how our next network will function.

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(Juan) Personally, I think that's a huge

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ease of use feature. I've worked with -

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I've been getting paid in Bitcoin for

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two years and you constantly have to go

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and update your private key - or

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the public key or else everybody is going

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to know what your public key is and you know

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if you want to keep your privacy -

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you want to keep refreshing, but there's

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no automated way to share public key lists,

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so that's fantastic and the identity stuff, great.

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You're talking about "Friends Lists" and it seems

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that there's a trend that Dash is moving to,

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and there's a lot of companies that are kind of

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looking at - a little bit - at social markets

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which are sort of social networks enabled

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with financial technology, which is just

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basically made for Bitcoin and blockchain

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technology, or Dash. And so want to

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tell us about what your vision is there?

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(Evan) Yes, so once you have the

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friends list implemented in - you

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have these very normal features

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like you would have with Paypal.

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Like, you have contacts, or you can

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send to email, things like that with

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Paypal. So you could do a similar thing

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with this network after this is implemented.

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And by that, lets say I get on, I invite my -

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you know, closest 10 friends, and then

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they get on and then they invite their

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closest 10 friends and then it becomes

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a social network of money. And everyone

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is just connected to their friends and I

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imagine that the first use case will be just for

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you know, paying people back, or selling

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somebody a couch or things like that.

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Which should be really easy to do with a

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system like this.

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(Juan) This is sort of like social network.

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Are you looking at integrating this technology

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with a current social network, or maybe starting

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your own social network? How do you see the

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actual path to that stage?

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(Evan) We have no plans on integrating it with

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like a service, like what change tip does or

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something like that where you can tip people

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on the internet. They would pretty much have

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to have an identity on the network for you to

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send money to them. And it's its own social network.

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But the idea is that by allowing this ease of use

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function where you can search for your friends by their

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user name or email, if they want to, if they don't want to be

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publicly searchable, then they won't be as well. So there is still

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some privacy as well. But then there is ease of use

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in that you don't have to remember all these keys,

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and I think that it'll make it so easy to use that

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we'll actually get some, you know, normal people

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using it that don't have any experience with

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crypto, and I think that's really the point.

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(Juan) Yah, I think that moving to an identity system

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is a huge ease of use step. Identities are kind of an

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interesting problem though.

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It's sort of like domain names, you could think

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of it like domain names.

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But you have to get the balance right.

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Namecoin has been having problems lately,

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I think there, I think there's been some bad press

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I haven't followed it too much, but I think one of

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the problems is that once you bought a

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Namecoin domain, it was yours forever, and

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so I think people were stock piling them.

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And so how does - how are you thinking

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about the way the scarcity of these identities

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are they, if you buy Evan Duffield domain, is it gone?

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or can I get another one with the same (name)

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and stuff like that?

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(Evan) The plan currently was to implement

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something where you enter your user name

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and you set up an account, and then you

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fund it, and then after that whole process

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is complete then it's done and now you have the

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reservation. And so maybe what could happen

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is that if you remove your money from the network

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and you stop using it, then it expires after a certain

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time. Because we're just storing these identities

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on the sharded data system. It's not a

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blockchain in the classic sense... where you

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00:11:39,611 --> 00:11:42,181
can actually remove data from it. so we can

262
00:11:42,181 --> 00:11:44,861
definitely invalidate these identities if no one is

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00:11:44,861 --> 00:11:47,371
using them.

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00:11:47,371 --> 00:11:49,471
(Juan) Excellent. So we're talking about

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00:11:49,471 --> 00:11:51,811
decentralized storage, and this is a huge topic

266
00:11:51,811 --> 00:11:53,271
got a lot of people excited about this

267
00:11:53,271 --> 00:11:56,171
StorageJ, Maidsafe, big names in the space...

268
00:11:56,171 --> 00:12:00,211
Is Dash getting into decentralized storage?

269
00:12:00,211 --> 00:12:03,491
(Evan) I would say no. The idea here is more

270
00:12:03,491 --> 00:12:06,721
just to store user's metadata, and some of

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00:12:06,721 --> 00:12:09,341
their private data that they'd want to store

272
00:12:09,341 --> 00:12:11,091
in an encrypted way on our network.

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00:12:11,091 --> 00:12:15,091
And, the idea here is that I can log in on my

274
00:12:15,091 --> 00:12:18,281
Android phone, and then I can go home and

275
00:12:18,281 --> 00:12:20,761
I can log in on a browser with the same

276
00:12:20,761 --> 00:12:23,951
user name and password and both of

277
00:12:23,951 --> 00:12:25,851
these devices will be in sync. Like if I

278
00:12:25,851 --> 00:12:28,661
added a friend on one, it'll automatically

279
00:12:28,661 --> 00:12:30,941
add it on the other. And so there's really

280
00:12:30,941 --> 00:12:34,321
no management of like trying to move

281
00:12:34,321 --> 00:12:36,931
a wallet here or any of that, it's just all

282
00:12:36,931 --> 00:12:39,341
automatic so that's the part that seems

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00:12:39,341 --> 00:12:41,271
centralized but it's not.

284
00:12:41,271 --> 00:12:45,631
(Juan) And the files are shredded

285
00:12:45,631 --> 00:12:48,061
encrypted and then there's redundancey

286
00:12:48,061 --> 00:12:50,951
and then they're stored in Masternode

287
00:12:50,951 --> 00:12:54,951
storage. Like Masternode computers that

288
00:12:54,951 --> 00:12:58,681
provide that storage extra space, right?

289
00:12:58,681 --> 00:13:00,571
That's basically, to my understanding, what

290
00:13:00,571 --> 00:13:01,951
StorageJ are trying to do, or Maidsafe are

291
00:13:01,951 --> 00:13:04,151
trying to do as far as decentralized storage.

292
00:13:04,151 --> 00:13:07,291
Do you see... are there any limitations

293
00:13:07,291 --> 00:13:09,351
that would keep that from evolving into

294
00:13:09,351 --> 00:13:11,011
this decentralized internet, decentralized

295
00:13:11,011 --> 00:13:13,331
web-hosting decentralized storage that people

296
00:13:13,331 --> 00:13:16,141
are so excited about?

297
00:13:16,141 --> 00:13:17,871
(Evan) Well, it could be used like that

298
00:13:17,871 --> 00:13:20,771
and I expect people to fork the project and

299
00:13:20,771 --> 00:13:23,091
do things like that to make a competitor to

300
00:13:23,091 --> 00:13:27,091
StorageJ or you know... But, I don't think that

301
00:13:27,091 --> 00:13:30,561
it's the right path for Dash, because we have

302
00:13:30,561 --> 00:13:33,831
enough on our plate to do this technology

303
00:13:33,831 --> 00:13:36,621
with the friends list and this API, and Dash

304
00:13:36,621 --> 00:13:40,841
Drive just alone. And we don't, I don't think we really

305
00:13:40,841 --> 00:13:43,451
want to be storing random data on the network.

306
00:13:43,451 --> 00:13:47,631
This is more data that is crucial to the people's

307
00:13:47,631 --> 00:13:49,801
you know, the installation on their phone,

308
00:13:49,801 --> 00:13:54,371
and it's crucial to their specific account.

309
00:13:54,371 --> 00:13:56,471
So, it's information that they're storing that they want

310
00:13:56,471 --> 00:13:59,811
later that's related to to the payments and their

311
00:13:59,811 --> 00:14:03,431
specific account, not like, a file that they want

312
00:14:03,431 --> 00:14:06,031
saved on the network.

313
00:14:06,031 --> 00:14:09,621
(Juan) So, the access to these resources is the way

314
00:14:09,621 --> 00:14:12,811
that people can interact with this technology

315
00:14:12,811 --> 00:14:16,461
would be through the decentralized API.

316
00:14:16,461 --> 00:14:19,181
Lets talk about the resource management

317
00:14:19,181 --> 00:14:21,501
of the API.

318
00:14:21,501 --> 00:14:25,331
I think that you mentioned that there's ways to

319
00:14:25,331 --> 00:14:28,171
prevent abuse, there's um, and anybody

320
00:14:28,171 --> 00:14:31,271
can interact with the API without necessarily

321
00:14:31,271 --> 00:14:34,071
having a Masternode or full node... um...

322
00:14:34,071 --> 00:14:37,741
what are the requirements to ask the API

323
00:14:37,741 --> 00:14:41,741
questions or give it information?

324
00:14:41,741 --> 00:14:43,581
(Evan) Well, so that's a really interesting

325
00:14:43,581 --> 00:14:46,471
question. There's a whole model of

326
00:14:46,471 --> 00:14:48,961
security here. And basically what it comes

327
00:14:48,961 --> 00:14:51,291
down to is, you have an identity on the

328
00:14:51,291 --> 00:14:54,151
network, it's a user name, and that goes

329
00:14:54,151 --> 00:14:58,061
back to a 64 bit integer, which is your real

330
00:14:58,061 --> 00:15:01,311
identity, and then you can use, what we call

331
00:15:01,311 --> 00:15:04,171
blind keys which hide your real identity

332
00:15:04,171 --> 00:15:07,051
but when you do things on the network

333
00:15:07,051 --> 00:15:10,521
you're still incurring query time cost.

334
00:15:10,521 --> 00:15:13,421
And so since Masternodes are actually

335
00:15:13,421 --> 00:15:16,681
executing commands, we can take the

336
00:15:16,681 --> 00:15:19,211
amount of time average that was used

337
00:15:19,211 --> 00:15:21,021
and then charge it to the user account.

338
00:15:21,021 --> 00:15:23,161
And so all the user accounts are actually

339
00:15:23,161 --> 00:15:25,231
free to use up to a certain point.

340
00:15:25,231 --> 00:15:27,451
And so what we want to do is to get

341
00:15:27,451 --> 00:15:30,351
90% of the users in this free zone,

342
00:15:30,351 --> 00:15:32,961
and then 10% of the users

343
00:15:32,961 --> 00:15:34,541
would have to pay for extra.

344
00:15:34,541 --> 00:15:36,391
So you could purchase extra

345
00:15:36,391 --> 00:15:38,291
processing time on the network if

346
00:15:38,291 --> 00:15:39,641
you were like a large merchant or

347
00:15:39,641 --> 00:15:41,601
something, and then everyone else

348
00:15:41,601 --> 00:15:43,881
uses it for free. And the reason why

349
00:15:43,881 --> 00:15:46,481
this works is because our second tier

350
00:15:46,481 --> 00:15:47,911
network is actually incentivized.

351
00:15:47,911 --> 00:15:50,231
So we're subsidizing the cost from

352
00:15:50,231 --> 00:15:52,911
the actual blockchain of the users

353
00:15:52,911 --> 00:15:56,331
that are utilizing it.

354
00:15:56,331 --> 00:16:00,021
(Juan) That's very exciting, and giving

355
00:16:00,021 --> 00:16:02,501
free access to 90% of the users is

356
00:16:02,501 --> 00:16:03,961
one of those strategies that seem

357
00:16:03,961 --> 00:16:06,291
to work very, very well for a lot of companies.

358
00:16:06,291 --> 00:16:08,481
WhatsApp is one of the biggest

359
00:16:08,481 --> 00:16:11,561
voice over ip chat messaging systems

360
00:16:11,561 --> 00:16:13,021
and what they did was they just opened

361
00:16:13,021 --> 00:16:15,311
it up to anybody and then after a year,

362
00:16:15,311 --> 00:16:17,341
they start charging a little bit.

363
00:16:17,341 --> 00:16:18,981
And it blows up, so that's great stuff.

364
00:16:18,981 --> 00:16:22,361
Lets talk about anonymity a little bit,

365
00:16:22,361 --> 00:16:23,941
because Dash was sort of famous

366
00:16:23,941 --> 00:16:25,221
for this, and this is one of the core

367
00:16:25,221 --> 00:16:28,101
elements of Dash, is protecting user

368
00:16:28,101 --> 00:16:30,741
privacy and they want that by default.

369
00:16:30,741 --> 00:16:34,741
How does this identity system and

370
00:16:34,741 --> 00:16:37,741
interaction with the identity system

371
00:16:37,741 --> 00:16:40,491
um, interact with the privacy concerns and

372
00:16:40,491 --> 00:16:42,901
the value that a lot of libertarians or users

373
00:16:42,901 --> 00:16:45,281
in Bitcoin have?

374
00:16:45,281 --> 00:16:48,851
(Evan) So, there is still privacy on the network

375
00:16:48,851 --> 00:16:52,361
and we highly value privacy. And so the

376
00:16:52,361 --> 00:16:54,851
argument for privacy is more about

377
00:16:54,851 --> 00:16:56,851
fungibility, we don't want our users being

378
00:16:56,851 --> 00:16:58,721
spied on in the long term.

379
00:16:58,721 --> 00:17:00,611
and so when designing the system,

380
00:17:00,611 --> 00:17:02,221
we've made a distinction.

381
00:17:02,221 --> 00:17:04,731
We're separating the user identities

382
00:17:04,731 --> 00:17:06,661
from the payments that they do on

383
00:17:06,661 --> 00:17:07,541
the network.

384
00:17:07,541 --> 00:17:09,861
And so when they get put into the blockchain,

385
00:17:09,861 --> 00:17:12,201
there is no connection anymore.

386
00:17:12,201 --> 00:17:13,881
And the network can't follow you.

387
00:17:13,881 --> 00:17:16,961
Also, when you access the network,

388
00:17:16,961 --> 00:17:18,721
you're only hitting a few servers,

389
00:17:18,721 --> 00:17:21,991
you'll hit 7 to about 15 servers,

390
00:17:21,991 --> 00:17:24,761
and then every time you hit the network,

391
00:17:24,761 --> 00:17:26,431
you can hit a different quorum,

392
00:17:26,431 --> 00:17:29,061
and so what happens is you spread

393
00:17:29,061 --> 00:17:31,021
out your foot print among this entire

394
00:17:31,021 --> 00:17:33,271
network that's all over the earth, and

395
00:17:33,271 --> 00:17:35,291
no one can really tell what you're doing then.

396
00:17:35,291 --> 00:17:38,281
And so the users get privacy, but we can

397
00:17:38,281 --> 00:17:40,871
still make sure they're not abusing the

398
00:17:40,871 --> 00:17:42,751
system because it all goes through their

399
00:17:42,751 --> 00:17:44,711
identity originally, which then they're

400
00:17:44,711 --> 00:17:48,991
incurring that query time.

401
00:17:48,991 --> 00:17:50,781
(Juan) And you mention the word Quorum.

402
00:17:50,781 --> 00:17:52,891
This is to my understanding, so like a randomly

403
00:17:52,891 --> 00:17:55,841
selected group of servers that are the ones

404
00:17:55,841 --> 00:17:59,031
that will be serving the API and information.

405
00:17:59,031 --> 00:18:03,201
Yes, so quorums.... If you think about the

406
00:18:03,201 --> 00:18:05,451
Bitcoin blockchain and the proof of work

407
00:18:05,451 --> 00:18:09,451
you can create a random number generator

408
00:18:09,451 --> 00:18:12,181
and you can actually seed it with the

409
00:18:12,181 --> 00:18:14,341
proof of work from a known block

410
00:18:14,341 --> 00:18:17,821
and what happens is, if everyone on the

411
00:18:17,821 --> 00:18:20,311
network does the same thing, they all

412
00:18:20,311 --> 00:18:21,911
get this same number out of this random

413
00:18:21,911 --> 00:18:23,201
number generator, because they're really

414
00:18:23,201 --> 00:18:26,601
not random. But then that sequence of numbers

415
00:18:26,601 --> 00:18:29,881
is very very secure. And so what you do is,

416
00:18:29,881 --> 00:18:32,911
you take the Masternode list and then

417
00:18:32,911 --> 00:18:36,481
you sort it by the proof of work hash,

418
00:18:36,481 --> 00:18:39,611
using this randomized method. And then by

419
00:18:39,611 --> 00:18:43,488
taking, you know, one to ten - the first

420
00:18:43,488 --> 00:18:45,758
one to ten entries in the list; that's one quorum -

421
00:18:45,758 --> 00:18:48,348
11 to 20 is the next quorum, etc...

422
00:18:48,348 --> 00:18:52,668
And so these are secure subsets of Masternodes

423
00:18:52,668 --> 00:18:56,038
that no one on the network can predict and tamper

424
00:18:56,038 --> 00:18:59,198
with, and then those are the ones that do the work

425
00:18:59,198 --> 00:19:02,238
and group actions and then sign the results

426
00:19:02,238 --> 00:19:06,238
which then go back to the user.

427
00:19:06,238 --> 00:19:08,778
(Juan) Lets talk a little about scalability.

428
00:19:08,778 --> 00:19:11,308
So the Hong Kong conference is happening

429
00:19:11,308 --> 00:19:14,958
right now basically as we speak, talking about

430
00:19:14,958 --> 00:19:17,838
Bitcoin scalability and how to overcome those

431
00:19:17,838 --> 00:19:20,088
big challenges in blockchain technology that

432
00:19:20,088 --> 00:19:23,348
I think a lot of people have yet to overcome.

433
00:19:23,348 --> 00:19:26,538
There are some organizations that are claiming

434
00:19:26,538 --> 00:19:29,978
to have maybe solved it but how are you looking

435
00:19:29,978 --> 00:19:32,608
at this from Dash's perspective.

436
00:19:32,608 --> 00:19:35,258
I think the incentive structure of Dash is the

437
00:19:35,258 --> 00:19:37,738
right one to go with for a system that scales,

438
00:19:37,738 --> 00:19:40,828
you know, with many, many, many users.

439
00:19:40,828 --> 00:19:44,828
And the reason for that is because when you give a

440
00:19:44,828 --> 00:19:47,088
percentage of the blockchain to the infrastructure

441
00:19:47,088 --> 00:19:49,348
you create a market. And this market has

442
00:19:49,348 --> 00:19:51,838
equilibrium with the second tier.

443
00:19:51,838 --> 00:19:55,838
And so it'll figure out how many servers it can support

444
00:19:55,838 --> 00:19:57,488
from within that market.

445
00:19:57,488 --> 00:20:00,028
And what happens, as the currency grows, is that

446
00:20:00,028 --> 00:20:03,558
these markets get bigger. More users means more money

447
00:20:03,558 --> 00:20:06,348
is in the ecosystem, means the markets have more money

448
00:20:06,348 --> 00:20:09,178
which mean the servers could be even bigger or

449
00:20:09,178 --> 00:20:10,648
we could have more of them.

450
00:20:10,648 --> 00:20:13,638
and so it is a scalability solution in itself

451
00:20:13,638 --> 00:20:17,228
and we've proven it works. I think that the Dash

452
00:20:17,228 --> 00:20:21,228
project should be used as an example of a two tiered

453
00:20:21,228 --> 00:20:24,518
strategy before fixing the Bitcoin scalability issues.

454
00:20:24,518 --> 00:20:27,538
And I believe that if they implemented a varient

455
00:20:27,538 --> 00:20:31,538
of this technology that they could actually remove

456
00:20:31,538 --> 00:20:35,538
the block size limitation and, you know, scale the system

457
00:20:35,538 --> 00:20:39,538
and it would actually perform really really well.

458
00:20:39,538 --> 00:20:41,678
(Juan) There's three camps more or less

459
00:20:41,678 --> 00:20:45,678
in the blockchain size debate to my understanding, right?

460
00:20:45,678 --> 00:20:48,558
There's the small block people, they want to

461
00:20:48,558 --> 00:20:51,378
keep them small, and keep Bitcoin as a payment layer

462
00:20:51,378 --> 00:20:54,158
internationally. There's the big block people that say

463
00:20:54,158 --> 00:20:56,268
no, all transactions should be there, there's a bunch of

464
00:20:56,268 --> 00:20:57,908
people in the middle and then there's other corner

465
00:20:57,908 --> 00:21:00,868
that is rarely talked about which is , I think it's pioneered

466
00:21:00,868 --> 00:21:03,868
by Justus Ranvier, and he's talking about

467
00:21:03,868 --> 00:21:08,618
completely creating a ... as much as a free

468
00:21:08,618 --> 00:21:11,558
market as you can within the blockchains, so that

469
00:21:11,558 --> 00:21:16,268
blocksize and bandwidth costs, and notice, it's all

470
00:21:16,268 --> 00:21:20,268
a free market and it's not some sort of top down

471
00:21:20,268 --> 00:21:24,268
regulatory style decision that decides how big the

472
00:21:24,268 --> 00:21:29,078
block size is, but there's a market, an order book for this.

473
00:21:29,078 --> 00:21:33,618
Where would you sort of place yourself in that?

474
00:21:33,618 --> 00:21:36,588
(Evan) I think that the bitcoin debate on the blocksize

475
00:21:36,588 --> 00:21:41,038
is really interesting and I would lean more toward

476
00:21:41,038 --> 00:21:44,438
the camp that they shouldn't increase it right now

477
00:21:44,438 --> 00:21:48,458
because of the full node count issue.

478
00:21:48,458 --> 00:21:52,298
I believe now from... I've studied this for a few months now

479
00:21:52,298 --> 00:21:56,458
and I've been studying whether the transaction volume

480
00:21:56,458 --> 00:22:00,458
average correlates inversely to the full node count.

481
00:22:00,458 --> 00:22:03,128
And from what I've found, and I've done some statistical

482
00:22:03,128 --> 00:22:06,998
modeling on it, is that they are indeed correlated.

483
00:22:06,998 --> 00:22:09,428
And, when you impact one of these numbers,

484
00:22:09,428 --> 00:22:11,028
you do impact the other one.

485
00:22:11,028 --> 00:22:14,908
And so if you raise the blocksize limitation, then

486
00:22:14,908 --> 00:22:17,028
you're causing more bandwidth on the network,

487
00:22:17,028 --> 00:22:20,278
and more bandwidth will then drive down the full nodes.

488
00:22:20,278 --> 00:22:22,748
And so I think we need, we definitely need a good solution

489
00:22:22,748 --> 00:22:27,108
to it and I think the solution does come back to something

490
00:22:27,108 --> 00:22:29,548
like Dash did. We need some kind of market that

491
00:22:29,548 --> 00:22:32,288
compensates these people in a permanent way that's

492
00:22:32,288 --> 00:22:34,038
scalable.

493
00:22:34,038 --> 00:22:35,838
(Juan) Excellent. OK, we're gonna do the Facebook

494
00:22:35,838 --> 00:22:38,008
questions now.

495
00:22:38,008 --> 00:22:42,008
Um, Patrick Wade asks - sidechains on the Bitcoin

496
00:22:42,008 --> 00:22:46,668
blockchain vs Dash. How do you look at

497
00:22:46,668 --> 00:22:49,298
sidechains and the potential clone

498
00:22:49,298 --> 00:22:52,458
going on sidechains, like may happen

499
00:22:52,458 --> 00:22:54,928
to Etherium soon?

500
00:22:54,928 --> 00:22:57,568
(Evan) Well, OK, well the Sidechain issue is

501
00:22:57,568 --> 00:23:01,568
really interesting. The Etherium clone is

502
00:23:01,568 --> 00:23:05,568
a really well developed idea, I think, and

503
00:23:05,568 --> 00:23:08,138
Rootstock is interesting because it's actually

504
00:23:08,138 --> 00:23:10,408
supported by one of the Bitcoin core developers,

505
00:23:10,408 --> 00:23:14,408
which is also an interesting point, so I'm really interested

506
00:23:14,408 --> 00:23:16,248
in seeing what they do with that because it

507
00:23:16,248 --> 00:23:18,748
actually might be kind of different from Ethereum.

508
00:23:18,748 --> 00:23:24,108
As for sidechains and Dash, it's hard to recreate Dash because

509
00:23:24,108 --> 00:23:28,018
you need an actual blockchain that's separate from

510
00:23:28,018 --> 00:23:31,758
Bitcoin that has it's own monetary value,

511
00:23:31,758 --> 00:23:34,818
because you're rewarding people for running the nodes and

512
00:23:34,818 --> 00:23:38,818
they need to be compensated for running them right?

513
00:23:38,818 --> 00:23:42,578
So how do you do that with a sidechain that is part of the

514
00:23:42,578 --> 00:23:46,888
Bitcoin network and carries no value other than just being

515
00:23:46,888 --> 00:23:49,668
another token?

516
00:23:49,668 --> 00:23:52,308
(Juan) Interestingly enough, I actually shared

517
00:23:52,308 --> 00:23:55,458
an article I wrote in Coin Telegraph about how

518
00:23:55,458 --> 00:24:00,818
Dash works and the governance system with (name)

519
00:24:00,818 --> 00:24:05,608
who is an Ethereum, you know, and apparently

520
00:24:05,608 --> 00:24:07,708
the Rootstock people, I think you were telling me

521
00:24:07,708 --> 00:24:09,398
maybe about it? That the Rootstock people are

522
00:24:09,398 --> 00:24:11,848
sort of starting to think about implementing something

523
00:24:11,848 --> 00:24:16,998
like Dash, like Dash's governance system on Rootstock.

524
00:24:16,998 --> 00:24:19,118
How do you... do you have any ideas of how that

525
00:24:19,118 --> 00:24:22,198
might happen or anything you want to share on that?

526
00:24:22,198 --> 00:24:25,548
(Evan) Um, so they have a very interesting approach

527
00:24:25,548 --> 00:24:29,318
and they're looking for a few different solutions

528
00:24:29,318 --> 00:24:32,108
and I've been talking to them over the past few days

529
00:24:32,108 --> 00:24:35,088
about implementing something similar to what we've

530
00:24:35,088 --> 00:24:38,378
done in a completely different way. And so it'll

531
00:24:38,378 --> 00:24:42,628
be interesting to see what they come up with.

532
00:24:42,628 --> 00:24:48,448
(Juan) Kristov Atlas asks, I'm curious if he tracks progress

533
00:24:48,448 --> 00:24:51,708
of privacy improvements on Bitcoin vs Dash and what

534
00:24:51,708 --> 00:24:55,708
he thinks about the progress in these last couple of years.

535
00:24:55,708 --> 00:24:59,098
(Evan) Interesting question. The progress in Bitcoin

536
00:24:59,098 --> 00:25:02,758
is, you know, always slow. And, especially for fungibility,

537
00:25:02,758 --> 00:25:06,058
because that's a sensitive topic in the Bitcoin community.

538
00:25:06,058 --> 00:25:09,668
But I think that we really need to focus on scalability now

539
00:25:09,668 --> 00:25:13,388
that is the primary problem in Bitcoin at this point because

540
00:25:13,388 --> 00:25:17,388
we've reached the limitation, or we're almost at full block

541
00:25:17,388 --> 00:25:20,208
pretty much all the time now. So that is much more

542
00:25:20,208 --> 00:25:23,128
pressing. Fungibility will become an issue after we

543
00:25:23,128 --> 00:25:26,338
resolve that again. It's still an issue that hasn't been

544
00:25:26,338 --> 00:25:29,578
resolved though.

545
00:25:29,578 --> 00:25:32,478
(Juan) To follow up on that question, there's a few companies

546
00:25:32,478 --> 00:25:35,678
out there that are doing blockchain analytics on Bitcoin.

547
00:25:35,678 --> 00:25:38,028
Do you know anything about the kind of

548
00:25:38,028 --> 00:25:40,328
techniques that they have and do you have any

549
00:25:40,328 --> 00:25:44,798
concerns as far as them focusing on Dash at some point?

550
00:25:44,798 --> 00:25:48,798
(Evan) Well, I'm more concerned about them focusing

551
00:25:48,798 --> 00:25:52,798
on the Bitcoin ecosystem because it's ledgers are a lot

552
00:25:52,798 --> 00:25:58,238
less private than ours. In ours, coins are randomly anonymized

553
00:25:58,238 --> 00:26:02,348
and you can't cross that boundary. And so you can't follow back

554
00:26:02,348 --> 00:26:05,228
history very far. So if you identify

555
00:26:05,228 --> 00:26:06,798
somebody, you can identify a little bit

556
00:26:06,798 --> 00:26:09,068
of their history but not that much.

557
00:26:09,068 --> 00:26:11,098
Where as on the Bitcoin network, if you

558
00:26:11,098 --> 00:26:14,148
identify, a few key places, you can figure

559
00:26:14,148 --> 00:26:16,428
out what somebody has done for you know,

560
00:26:16,428 --> 00:26:18,568
months even. And that can be an issue.

561
00:26:18,568 --> 00:26:20,668
Some of these companies are using

562
00:26:20,668 --> 00:26:22,878
statistical methods of figuring it out

563
00:26:22,878 --> 00:26:27,468
and some really advanced algorithms

564
00:26:27,468 --> 00:26:30,778
that do work and I believe that they

565
00:26:30,778 --> 00:26:34,388
will have a pretty good database of

566
00:26:34,388 --> 00:26:36,018
trying to figure out the identities of

567
00:26:36,018 --> 00:26:37,628
these people, and then begin selling it

568
00:26:37,628 --> 00:26:39,728
which we really want to protect our users

569
00:26:39,728 --> 00:26:42,258
from. I don't think that type of data should

570
00:26:42,258 --> 00:26:47,098
be able to be sold to companies and what not.

571
00:26:47,098 --> 00:26:49,475
(Juan) I have to say I agree with that. But um...

572
00:26:49,475 --> 00:26:54,425
I'm the journalist, I shouldn't have opinions, (laughs)

573
00:26:54,425 --> 00:26:58,735
Ok, Ruben asks, what are your favorite 3

574
00:26:58,735 --> 00:27:02,655
crypto-currencies and a short explanation maybe.

575
00:27:02,655 --> 00:27:11,015
(Evan) Alright, so I would say, um, Primecoin, Quark and Litecoin.

576
00:27:11,015 --> 00:27:14,605
And so there's a really interesting reason for this.

577
00:27:14,605 --> 00:27:17,475
Primecoin is where I got the difficulty algorithm idea from.

578
00:27:17,475 --> 00:27:20,515
And mine doesn't work as well as theirs did.

579
00:27:20,515 --> 00:27:22,405
Theirs was a little bit better.

580
00:27:22,405 --> 00:27:24,695
But that's where I got the idea from none the less.

581
00:27:24,695 --> 00:27:27,915
And then Quark, because of the chaining algorithm

582
00:27:27,915 --> 00:27:29,905
for hashing, that's where I got that idea from.

583
00:27:29,905 --> 00:27:33,805
And then litecoin because it's the fork that first

584
00:27:33,805 --> 00:27:36,965
started Dash. And so these are the three that

585
00:27:36,965 --> 00:27:40,495
really got me going into the Dash project.

586
00:27:40,495 --> 00:27:42,945
(Juan) Excellent, and is there any TA for the

587
00:27:42,945 --> 00:27:46,715
Dash Evolution release, or where are you guys

588
00:27:46,715 --> 00:27:49,315
in the development?

589
00:27:49,315 --> 00:27:51,435
(Evan) So we're going to try a brand new approach

590
00:27:51,435 --> 00:27:53,535
to development this time around that

591
00:27:53,535 --> 00:27:55,465
I don't think (has) ever been tried before.

592
00:27:55,465 --> 00:27:59,055
We don't have a clear path. We have a very

593
00:27:59,055 --> 00:28:01,855
structured idea of how these things should work,

594
00:28:01,855 --> 00:28:04,095
and now we want to team up with the

595
00:28:04,095 --> 00:28:06,285
community, open source all the documents

596
00:28:06,285 --> 00:28:08,465
and actually figure it out as a community

597
00:28:08,465 --> 00:28:11,755
what we really want. It's essentially going to be

598
00:28:11,755 --> 00:28:15,595
a giant conversation with thousands of people

599
00:28:15,595 --> 00:28:18,805
to try to figure out the path, the best path

600
00:28:18,805 --> 00:28:20,955
that most people want. Because we don't

601
00:28:20,955 --> 00:28:22,295
want to create something that people

602
00:28:22,295 --> 00:28:24,175
don't want to use, right? so if we make all

603
00:28:24,175 --> 00:28:26,635
of our users happy, that's the primary goal.

604
00:28:26,635 --> 00:28:31,365
And as for an ETA, we're looking for a

605
00:28:31,365 --> 00:28:34,885
prototype within about 2 months and then

606
00:28:34,885 --> 00:28:38,375
after that, we should have something more

607
00:28:38,375 --> 00:28:41,665
concrete in maybe a year, a year and a half.

608
00:28:41,665 --> 00:28:43,155
It's definitely going to take some time,

609
00:28:43,155 --> 00:28:46,285
it's a very, very large project.

610
00:28:46,285 --> 00:28:50,285
(Juan) How does it feel to be in the center,

611
00:28:50,285 --> 00:28:53,865
or very close to the center of what I argue is

612
00:28:53,865 --> 00:28:58,825
a kind of cyber organism? I think, unlike any other

613
00:28:58,825 --> 00:29:03,855
project where you have external funding and it's

614
00:29:03,855 --> 00:29:06,045
much more maybe centralized. Right now, I think

615
00:29:06,045 --> 00:29:08,815
that Dash is the best example I can think of a

616
00:29:08,815 --> 00:29:12,005
Decentralized Autonomous Organization and it's funding

617
00:29:12,005 --> 00:29:16,965
mechanism is internal and based on the value of it's coin.

618
00:29:16,965 --> 00:29:21,325
How does it feel to be in so a decentralized community and

619
00:29:21,325 --> 00:29:24,895
such a fast developing space?

620
00:29:24,895 --> 00:29:28,385
(Evan) It's quite interesting, it never is boring.

621
00:29:28,385 --> 00:29:30,855
And, I mean, the things we are doing are really

622
00:29:30,855 --> 00:29:34,025
exciting, so just implementing the decentralized

623
00:29:34,025 --> 00:29:36,745
voting and funding and governance and just watching

624
00:29:36,745 --> 00:29:40,745
it being used by the community is just phenomenal.

625
00:29:40,745 --> 00:29:43,745
And then the community at large is just full of other

626
00:29:43,745 --> 00:29:47,415
interesting ideas as well. I think the entire thing could

627
00:29:47,415 --> 00:29:51,415
be considered a giant organism. But I definitely agree

628
00:29:51,415 --> 00:29:53,585
that we're probably the first Decentralized

629
00:29:53,585 --> 00:29:57,315
Autonomous Organization because, I mean, it's

630
00:29:57,315 --> 00:30:00,315
completely self funded. Dash is completely

631
00:30:00,315 --> 00:30:04,035
self funded which means that it can survive on it's own

632
00:30:04,035 --> 00:30:08,035
after all of us leave. It defeats the first adopter problem

633
00:30:08,035 --> 00:30:12,605
which I think is critical. You get first adopters which get

634
00:30:12,605 --> 00:30:15,605
coins cheap, they do work because they're incentivized

635
00:30:15,605 --> 00:30:19,185
but the second adopters, third adopters, forth adopters

636
00:30:19,185 --> 00:30:24,565
aren't. So who is going to take over the really really laborious

637
00:30:24,565 --> 00:30:29,035
terrible task of managing Bitcoin Core, later.

638
00:30:29,035 --> 00:30:32,665
And you basically hand them this thing and say, you know

639
00:30:32,665 --> 00:30:35,145
if you screw up, you screw up billions of dollars of

640
00:30:35,145 --> 00:30:37,405
infrastructure. You know, have fun.

641
00:30:37,405 --> 00:30:38,725
And then who pays them?

642
00:30:38,725 --> 00:30:41,955
It's a hard problem to solve and I think

643
00:30:41,955 --> 00:30:44,515
we have a good solution. So I'm really excited

644
00:30:44,515 --> 00:30:48,305
for that, and I'm really excited to see where it goes.

645
00:30:48,305 --> 00:30:50,465
(Juan) Is there anything else you would like to add,

646
00:30:50,465 --> 00:30:53,985
any (thing else) you'd like to share?

647
00:30:53,985 --> 00:30:57,985
(Evan) Ah, yes, so, we're open sourcing the Dash

648
00:30:57,985 --> 00:31:01,985
Evolution and it's going to be open for conversation

649
00:31:01,985 --> 00:31:05,195
about where we go and the direction of it, so I'd like

650
00:31:05,195 --> 00:31:08,025
everyone to get involved in telling us what they

651
00:31:08,025 --> 00:31:10,735
think of it and coming up with improvements

652
00:31:10,735 --> 00:31:13,415
so that we can build the best thing possible.

653
00:31:13,415 --> 00:31:15,555
And so I encourage you to come over to

654
00:31:15,555 --> 00:31:18,595
dashevolution.com and check out the documents

655
00:31:18,595 --> 00:31:21,165
and see what we're working on and collaborate;

656
00:31:21,165 --> 00:31:22,645
help us out.

657
00:31:22,645 --> 00:31:26,645
(Juan) Excellent, Thank you very much.