2015-10-07 11:24:01	hattusili_III	i find it funny how fundamentally secular the worldview of a lot of apparently devout religious people are
2015-10-07 11:24:09	modulus	eegor: he was more into greeks and not reactionary but yeah, that can happen
2015-10-07 11:24:20	+eegor	of course for classicists theres also the chance they want to be governors of india
2015-10-07 11:24:30	hattusili_III	like if you went up to my priest and started mumbling about stigmata and visitations you'd probably get sent to a hospital
2015-10-07 11:24:39	hattusili_III	varies according to denomination tho
2015-10-07 11:25:01	modulus	hattusili_III: what the rationalist community calls belief in belief.
2015-10-07 11:25:17	modulus	many people don't actually believe in god and all that shite, they beleive they believe it, as signalling and so on
2015-10-07 11:25:34	+eegor	whenever they do religious polls in nordic countries
2015-10-07 11:25:54	+eegor	its usually a relatively small portion of population who believe in god "as christianity teaches it"
2015-10-07 11:26:03	+eegor	and a bigger portion believing in some kind of a god
2015-10-07 11:26:20	+eegor	belief in a secular society is pretty vague and on the background stuff
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2015-10-07 11:26:30	hattusili_III	ideology never ceases to amaze
2015-10-07 11:26:37	hattusili_III	modulus: how exactly does that work?
2015-10-07 11:26:55	hattusili_III	how do u believe u believe... sounds confusing
2015-10-07 11:27:06	modulus	hattusili_III: ok so the argument goes something like this:
2015-10-07 11:27:31	modulus	a belief is a holding that something is true, and this has causal and operational implications. for example if you believe tehre is a cake in the fridge  you predict when you open the fridge you will eat cake.
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2015-10-07 11:28:08	modulus	now let's say you tell me you have an invisible cake in the fridge, and that you believe this is the case. and i start making refinement questions about predictions from this believe: will things on top of the cake show to be floating? will i be able to smell it?
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2015-10-07 11:28:26	modulus	and to all the operational question syou ask in a way that is indistinguishable to someone who didn't actually believe that an invisible cake is in the fridge.
2015-10-07 11:28:47	modulus	in that case you don't actualy believe you have an invisible cake in the fridge, but you've convinced yourself for wahtever reason that you believe it.
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2015-10-07 11:30:20	modulus	maybe you say that you believe there's an invisible cake in the fridge because habit, or because you want to seem outrageous and special, or because good people say they believe they have an invisible cake in the fridge, but if you can't draw any operational consequences from it you don't actually believe it.
2015-10-07 11:30:37	modulus	that's the basic argument.
2015-10-07 11:30:40	modulus	i think it's reasonable.
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2015-10-07 11:32:19	sorta	i kind of love not knowing the premise to the previous 6 lines
2015-10-07 11:32:37	hattusili_III	sorta: u want some backlog
2015-10-07 11:32:44	sorta	the cake arguement has summoned plato i see
2015-10-07 11:33:11	sorta	yea
2015-10-07 11:33:36	sorta	trying to distinguish between levels of belief?
2015-10-07 11:33:47	modulus	yes