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  1. 15:14 < AlSweigart> Hey JC, so my main question with The Bridge that you're setting up is 1) What's it supposed to accomplish? Is it a second spacebridge
  2.                     project?
  3. 15:15 < AlSweigart> And 2) who's going to be sleeping in the nap pod that you set up there?
  4. 15:15 < tdfischer> its a space within a space
  5. 15:15 < thex> it's a part of the space
  6. 15:15 < thex> i've update the floorplan
  7. 15:15 < thex>
  8. 15:15 < noisebot> [Link Info] title: File:Noiz spacemap2012.jpg - Noisebridge
  9. 15:16 < thex> although you may have to reload for cache
  10. 15:16 < AlSweigart> Right. But why is the partitioning necessary for the projects that will be done there, and what projects will be done there? Is it just a
  11.                     separate new room in the space?
  12. 15:16 < thex> all great q's
  13. 15:17 < thex> gimmie one sec peeps IRL in the bridge
  14. 15:17 < thex> brb
  15. 15:17 < AlSweigart> Also, the jpg you linked doesn't really explain it. It looks more like a joke. But seriously, what is it going to be used for?
  16. 15:18 < thex> it's a bridge, for the spaceship noisebridge
  17. 15:18 < xnw> so hey
  18. 15:18 < thex> on a 5 year mission, to blah blah blah, excellent haxing etc
  19. 15:18 <@jerkey> AlSweigart it's not really a thing, it's a state of mind
  20. 15:18 < thex> and it's very much a work in process
  21. 15:18 < AlSweigart> Uh... yeah, but seriously, what is it and what will it be used for?
  22. 15:18 < xnw> you know how David Suzuki was like "if Fukushima reactor 3 melts down, we should evacuate the west coast of North America"?
  23. 15:18 <@jerkey> lol i love that there's a GPS at the control station
  24. 15:19 < xnw> and you know how, like, there's this new plume of steam that is making scientists think maybe it's happening, that reactor 3 is going into
  25.              meltdown now?
  26. 15:19 < xnw> what are you guys' thoughts on that?
  27. 15:19 < thex> ya
  28. 15:19 < xnw> seeing as we're about as west coast as it gets
  29. 15:19 < thex> i'd like to have an actual gps unit
  30. 15:19 < thex> and spoof it to show wherever we are in metaspace
  31. 15:19 <@jerkey> xnw i dont think any more reactors are going to melt down, it sounds alarmist.  if there is research or data to back it up i'll read it but
  32.                 based on my knowledge of the situation, it's just fear exploitation
  33. 15:19 < thex> and be able to route a trip to say c-base
  34. 15:20 < xnw> jerkey:
  35. 15:20 < noisebot> [Link Info] title: Mystery Steam Over Fukushima Could Be Sign of Another Meltdown
  36. 15:20 < xnw> note I'm not linking a conspiracy site. it may well be fear-mongering, I agree.
  37. 15:21 < AlSweigart> So a couple years back, there was this guy Isky who brought his home desktop PC and put it in Turing. He would hang out at Noisebridge a
  38.                     lot just playing Modern Warfare or whatever. It basically was monopolizing that part of the classroom for his private use, which is
  39.                     unexcellent.
  40. 15:21 < thex> ya
  41. 15:21 < AlSweigart> He would say that the computer was openly available to anyone, but only he and his friends had the password to it. He also permanently
  42.                     stored his bicycle at the space, again saying it was a community bike, but since it wasn't marked as such, it was only used by him and his
  43.                     friends.
  44. 15:22 < thex> so the "bridge" experiment, is diving into a more 1337 bridge, or n0153bridge if you will
  45. 15:22 < AlSweigart> thex: Can you explain what that means?
  46. 15:22 < thex> a dedicated space for 1337
  47. 15:22 < thex> setup with nice things
  48. 15:22 < thex> that continue to work, and stay in the space
  49. 15:22 <@jerkey> xnw i am reading
  50. 15:22 < thex> i am working to design it in a open and non-exclusionary way
  51. 15:23 < thex> however, there is a line
  52. 15:23 <@jerkey> AlSweigart i predict that what thex does at noisebridge will be excellent, and he is receptive to criticism should the need arise
  53. 15:23 < AlSweigart> So, who is allowed to use the leet area of Noisebridge?
  54. 15:23 < thex> that is meant to insure that ppl participanting in the bridge are doing so with known concent of what they are choosing to participate in
  55. 15:23 <@jerkey> you mean the nitrous?
  56. 15:24 < thex> well it may make sense to combine it with a "members" area ala membershelves
  57. 15:24 < thex> jerkey: u refering to the helium?
  58. 15:25 <@jerkey> dont inhale helium, it doesn't do what you think it does
  59. 15:25 < AlSweigart> thex: It really looks like your setting up a private space, including sleeping quarters, for yourself and the people you deem leet.
  60.                     Especially since you did it all before announcing it on the wiki, in IRC, at a meeting, and are refusing to announce it at all on the
  61.                     mailing list. Also, tonight's meeting is NYE, where not many people will show up.
  62. 15:25  * thex in all seriousness, not a fan of huffers/huffing
  63. 15:25 < thex> yes, to be clear and plain, i am hacking the shit out of noisebridge, and not asking permission
  64. 15:25 < AlSweigart> thex: That's what it looks like. But please do (I sincerely mean this) show me how I'm incorrect.
  65. 15:26 < thex> i am doing my best, and expect to be held accountable, that i find and proceed in an excellent way
  66. 15:26 <@jerkey> xnw i'm reading the translated japanese and it does mention unexplained steam, but it's hard to read the whole thing.
  68. 15:26 < noisebot> [Link Info] title: ?????????????????(??)|????
  69. 15:26 < Cognition> who determines who is 1337?
  70. 15:26 < thex> i'd prefer to do then talk, and let my doin speak for itself
  71. 15:26 < AlSweigart> Cognition: I am very much interested in the answer to that question too.
  72. 15:27 < thex> however, i value the oppurtunity for input and feedback, and rfc stage as it were
  73. 15:27 < unixjazz> jerkey, tepco is the worse source for info, but I agree with you regarding the reactor-3 -- alarmism is not going to help us in anyway
  74. 15:27 < AlSweigart> thex: You know this will be controversial. You should discuss it with the community to mitigate people's concerns.
  75. 15:27 <@jerkey> AlSweigart i think you should go there and see how excellent it will be.  thex works hard at excellence in the space and i predict you would
  76.                 approve.
  77. 15:27 < thex> and i may be driving the project, however i consider a noisebridge project first, rather than my project
  78. 15:27 < unixjazz> tepco have been systematically hidding info since the outbreak of the disaster
  79. 15:27 < unixjazz> s/have/has
  80. 15:28 < thex> i will be happy to discuss via irc, i am not interested in unnecessary dramatizing via nb-discuss
  81. 15:28 <@jerkey> AlSweigart there be dragons where people fear to do things without permission.  don't activate the fire extinguisher before the fire
  82. 15:28 < AlSweigart> jerkey: It's only been up for a day. I was in the middle of taking down the tarp when JC found me and explain everything, because I hadn't
  83.                     heard about it at all and thought someone was setting up their own private residence.
  84. 15:28 < thex> actually this is day 5
  85. 15:28 <@jerkey> that is a valid guess when you see a tarp go up at noisebrige
  86. 15:28 < thex> i've been "occupying" west noisebridge since the start of CHAOS
  87. 15:28 < thex> which i very publicly announced over a month ago
  88. 15:28 < thex> this is a continuation
  89. 15:29 < AlSweigart> I mean, I do a lot of bold moves (like booting sleepers out in the morning), but I go out of my way to make solicit opinions from people,
  90.                     especially those who disagree with me.
  91. 15:29 < thex> and frankly i take your action of dissable/paint over by default as n0ts3w excellent
  92. 15:29 < AlSweigart> thex: Announced on the mailing list, or at a meeting or something? I don't remember anyone saying anything about a closed off "leet" space
  93.                     with sleeping pod.
  94. 15:29 <@jerkey> unixjazz i agree that they keep as much secrets as they can, but if reactor 3 is undercooled and making steam, they will surely increase the
  95.                 cooling water to it.  The consequence being more radioactive water to dispose of.  But to let it melt down is not an option that anyone would
  96.                 consider.
  97. 15:29 < thex> and the no dissamble isn't even supposed go be enforced till next year
  98. 15:30 < thex> it's not closed off
  99. 15:30 < thex> but like https everywhere, exploring encrypted by default
  100. 15:30 < unixjazz> jerkey, sure! it would be noticeable if the core would be melting... because they would make moves and call attention of the world (a lot of
  101.                   people 'on the ground' are following them closely)
  102. 15:30 <@jerkey> thex are you interested in finding out what alsweigart wants you to do differently?
  103. 15:31 < thex> ...i'm continuing a conversatoin that we started in the space
  104. 15:31 -!- anti-todo [~user@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
  105. 15:31 -!- heroic [] has joined #noisebridge
  106. 15:31 < thex> and yes look'n for anyones input, however trying to stay focused on hacking over talking
  107. 15:31 <@jerkey> unixjazz if the core is melting it's because of insufficient cooling, so they will increase the cooling water flow
  108. 15:31 < unixjazz> thex, IMHO it does not make much sense to build walls within the space...
  109. 15:31 < thex> and sometimes it better to do and ask for forgiveness later
  110. 15:32 < AlSweigart> thex: There's tons of random scrawling and graffitti all over the space. I started painting over it, including the storage door.
  111.                     Considering that E'Claire has been blasting her stuff all over the walls, I didn't think it would be too controversial. I'm interested in
  112.                     hearing about what people think about drawing on the walls of NB (we had an art wall specifically for that a while ago).
  113. 15:32 < thex> and hope that nb is the kinda place where ppl doing crazy shit are given the benefit of the doubt they are doing something excellent
  114. 15:32 < thex> rather then starting yet another cluster fuck
  115. 15:32 < thex> even when its been tried and failed
  116. 15:32 < thex> rather then starting yet another cluster fuck
  117. 15:32 < thex> even when its been tried and failed
  118. 15:32 < AlSweigart> And since E'Claire is now prolly going to piss off the landlord by writing her name all over outside the space, I think E'Claire's actions
  119.                     are unexcellent.
  120. 15:32 < thex> and in the process it's odd to see such literal censorship
  121. 15:33 < thex> at the same time i am huge supporter of cleaning the space, and challenged  by the graffitti as well
  122. 15:33 < AlSweigart> But we can talk about the graffiti later (and I seriously would like to talk about it)
  123. 15:33 < thex> and hoping to see it evolve in to more art and less crap
  124. 15:33 < thex> agreed
  125. 15:33 < thex> one thing at a time
  126. 15:33 < thex> so how about this...
  127. 15:34 < thex> i'm gonna keep hack'n in the "dark" aka bridge for the rest of the year
  128. 15:34 < thex> and come next year (say 12 hours from now)
  129. 15:34 < AlSweigart> thex: Right. So, my personal view is that The Bridge seems like it'll become a sort of "inner circle" area that is closed off to general
  130.                     people at NB, and the sleep pod is a bad idea. I'm willing to hold off on taking it down or what not for a few weeks to see how it turns
  131.                     out though.
  132. 15:35 < thex> there will be a clearer, public mission statement, outlining whats goin on, and the demands/impact on the physical space attached to going forward
  133. 15:35 < thex> i'd like to sperate the sleep pod from the bridge discussion
  134. 15:35 < thex> as it's not intended to be part of the bridge
  135. 15:35 < AlSweigart> thex: But one thing I do want you to do is make it completely transparent 1) what The Bridge's intended use specifically is and 2) who's
  136.                     going to be allowed/not allowed to use the sleep pod. And that includes mailing noisebridge-discuss.
  137. 15:35 < thex> but an adjunct via #fort
  138. 15:36 < AlSweigart> thex: The sleep pod is right in the middle of The Bridge and was made at the same time as The Bridge. I don't see how you can't include it.
  139. 15:36 < thex> the sleep pod was an invention contrived at 5:30am this morning
  140. 15:36 < AlSweigart> My main concern is I don't want parts of Noisebridge to be privatized and partitioned off.
  141. 15:36 < thex> and onfab'd in an hour
  142. 15:37 < gnusosa> hahahaa wat
  143. 15:37 < gnusosa> I'm out
  144. 15:37 < thex> ya
  145. 15:37 < thex> more to talk about and figure out
  146. 15:37 < unixjazz> AlSweigart, +1, I think it is a bad idea to partition the space...
  147. 15:37 < unixjazz> I mean, building walls and stuff
  148. 15:37 < thex> would like to have a more general discussion about at meeting tonight if anyone is coming, or pickup again at the same time on irc
  149. 15:39 < thex> and al i really don't wanna piss you or anyone at the space off
  150. 15:39 < thex> and i am excersizing my freedom to hack and experiment and need some time and space to see where that is going
  151. 15:39 < thex> and expect it will become much clearer in the coming days
  152. 15:40 <@jerkey> it seems that the steam could just be a leak in one of the cooling systems, the temperature in the general area is 5.1 celsius, so any water
  153.                 even slightly warm will make steam.
  154. 15:40 < AlSweigart> Right. I think it would clear things up if you can write out what the intended use of the space is, but also make it as public as possible
  155.                     and solicit people's opinions/criticism.
  156. 15:40 < thex> i'll keep folks updated with things that may have a broader inpact on the space as much as possible here
  157. 15:41 < thex> i'll be having an open dialog on whats currently happening in the "bridge" on #n0153bridge for anyone that wants to get in on the experiment
  158. 15:41 < AlSweigart> thex: And, really, do post an announcement on Discuss and field people's questions. I know you want to take a break from that list for a
  159.                     while, but just get this part done first.
  160. 15:41 < thex> i'm sorta with you on that
  161. 15:41 < AlSweigart> thex: Sorta?
  162. 15:42 < thex> well i got till the end of the year
  163. 15:42 < AlSweigart> unixjazz: Just to be clear, no walls have been built, but there's a large tarp the sections off the fire escape/spacebridge area and the
  164.                     few tables in front of it.
  165. 15:42 < thex> i have a hard time reading what you are saying, not as just another version of you have to ask to do something first, rather then just doing
  166.               excellently
  167. 15:43 < thex> and the bridge is a departure, in that it most definetly is not concensus
  168. 15:43 < thex> and will not conform to comprimise
  169. 15:43 < thex> it will be what it is
  170. 15:43 < AlSweigart> thex: Basically, announce The Bridge on the mailing list, say what it's intended use is, and who will/will not be using the sleep pod.
  171. 15:43 < thex> and if anyone feels that it is keeping them or anyone from reasonably using the space, i invite you to come to the bridge and chat with me about
  172.               it
  173. 15:44 < AlSweigart> thex: "and will not conform to comprimise" really concerns me
  174. 15:44 < thex> good
  175. 15:44 < unixjazz> alright!
  176. 15:44 < thex> i'm pretty sure that means its just unreasonable enough to possibly become reasonable with being ubsurdly extreme
  177. 15:45 < thex> without i mean
  178. 15:45 -!- unixjazz [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
  179. 15:45 < AlSweigart> thex: Noisebridge is not yours. It is a community. We encourage people to take initiative, but you can claim a section of the space as your
  180.                     own and not be willing to listen to other people's concerns.
  181. 15:46 < thex> i expect this will cause some friction, and would like to work with others to keep it from breaking other things, but i'm asking for some space
  182.               to try, and fail
  183. 15:46 < thex> i am not claiming
  184. 15:46 < thex> but i am proclaiming personal responsibility for this specific part of noisebridge
  185. 15:47 < Cognition> I support reasonable naps at noisebridge, but if overnigt sleep is to be discouraged, a hidden sleep pod behind a tarp may not be a great
  186.                    idea.
  187. 15:47 < thex> and with that am taking some "ownership" for lack of a better word
  188. 15:47 < thex> to be clear the sleep pod is not behind/under a tarp
  189. 15:47 < thex> it's under a desk
  190. 15:47 < thex> with a horizontal door
  191. 15:47 < thex> i'll add pics to the wiki
  192. 15:48 < thex> and i'm not at all interested in hiding anything i'm doing
  193. 15:48 < thex> however i find it prudent to be discrete about some things
  194. 15:48 < AlSweigart> thex: What things?
  195. 15:48 < thex> especially in respect to maintaing a safe space used by kids at times
  196. 15:49 < thex> not presenting a image of noisebridge as "crash" pad by say napping for a few hours on the couch
  197. 15:49 < AlSweigart> thex: Like alcohol/weed use?
  198. 15:49 < thex> i prefer to sleep in the open in the space when I do
  199. 15:49 < thex> but i don't think gives a fair reflection of whats actually going on
  200. 15:49 < thex> yes as for some
  201. 15:50 < thex> out of sight out of mind
  202. 15:50 < thex> not that i condone or use that a excuse for illegal activities at/around nb
  203. 15:50 < thex> but i can be a responsible adult and consume alcohal in the space
  204. 15:50 < AlSweigart> thex: ...
  205. 15:51 < thex> i just don't find it appropriate persay sitting across from a 12 year old
  206. 15:51 < AlSweigart> thex: "out of sight out of mind" doesn't really reassure me about The Bridge being transparent.
  207. 15:51 < thex> and i don't have problems with kids on the bridge, so long as they have a gaurdian
  208. 15:51 < anasyrma> What is "The Bridge"?
  209. 15:51 < AlSweigart> anasyrma: I'll let thex take that question.
  210. 15:52 < AlSweigart> I'm still not sure myself.
  211. 15:52 < thex> "The Bridge" can be a way to refer to the hackerspace noisebridge in general
  212. 15:52 < thex> tell ya what
  213. 15:53 < thex> let me get back to figure out what the f'k the bridge is for myself, and there will be updates to follow
  214. 15:53 < AlSweigart> "The Bridge" isn't the entire space though, it's specifically a section of the space by the fire escape that thex set up last night.
  215. 15:53 < AlSweigart> So far it sounds like a place where you can sleep and drink booze.
  216. 15:53 < thex> in the meantime are there any concerns unanswered preventing anyone from use/enjoyment of the space potentially caused by this experimental
  217.               bridge project
  218. 15:54 < thex> it totally is
  219. 15:54 < thex> cause it's a 1337 hackerspace space in a epic harkerspace known as "The Bridge"
  220. 15:54 < AlSweigart> ...and an inner circle that only "
  221. 15:54 < anasyrma> ...
  222. 15:54 < AlSweigart> leet" people can hang out at.
  223. 15:54 < anasyrma> do i even *want* to know what is going on?
  224. 15:54 < thex> and in at least my version of a hackerspace i wanna spend time at, sleeping and drink booze is a part of the experience, not what defines it
  225.               however
  226. 15:55 < AlSweigart> anasyrma: One that thex does not want to disclose on the mailing list, because the mailing list folks "aren't real Noisebridgers".
  227. 15:55 < thex> i am open to input on access control policy to bridge
  228. 15:55 < thex> i would say it mirrors noisebridges
  229. 15:55 < thex> however that is in a unknown fail state at present
  230. 15:55 < thex> so i'm experimenting
  231. 15:56 < thex> i am also exploring some concepts around space and privacy
  232. 15:56 < thex> and see the "bridge" as a safer space to explore that, then say noisebridge at large
  233. 15:56 < AlSweigart> thex: This doesn't sound well thought out at all. Figure all this out and announce it on the mailing list today or tomorrow, because it
  234.                     should and will be announced there.
  235. 15:56 < thex> and i refer to jerkey's idea of "open to the public as much possible/reasonable" as a good default start
  236. 15:57 < thex> i rarely find myself doing epic things that are well thought out
  237. 15:57 < thex> they just sorta happen
  238. 15:57 < thex> more thinking will be applied as things evolve
  239. 15:59 < thex> in the meantime, west noisebridge is under construction, hard hats recomended
  240. 15:59 < thex> with any luck the dust will settle before the end of the year, and hard hats will be optional
  241. 15:59 < thex> however, i fully expect there to be broader shit storms to get kicked up along the way
  242. 15:59 < thex> ala sleeping
  243. 15:59 < thex> ala drinking
  244. 15:59 < thex> ala hacking
  245. 15:59 < thex> to be continued
  246. 16:00 < thex> i'm switching to #sudoroom for a while, will be back in time for meeting
  247. 16:00 < AlSweigart> thex: So, you *expect* there to be problems with sleeping and drinking in this thing you're building? Care to explain how you're planning
  248.                     to mitigate these issues?
  249. 16:00 < thex> no i don't care to explain right now
  250. 16:00 < thex> these things are already a huge problem
  251. 16:00 < thex> i have no hope/expection of fixing them
  252. 16:01 < thex> i don't see that as preventing me from doing it better, as we slowly find ways to improve/fix them
  253. 16:01 < AlSweigart> thex: But you can see why I think building a nap pod in an isolated part of the space will *increase* these problems, right?
  254. 16:01 < thex> expect problems, as this is not an overnight fix that can be "defined"
  255. 16:01 < thex> i can see how you would think that
  256. 16:02 < thex> i if it's not abundently clear, obviously have a different view
  257. 16:02 < thex> and over time would imagine we can find a way to share a more similar longer view
  258. 16:02 < AlSweigart> thex: I'm interested in what your view is. Can you explain how the sleep pod doesn't encourage more sleeping?
  259. 16:03 < thex> not right now
  260. 16:03 < Cognition> only those deemed 1337 will be sleeping...
  261. 16:03 < thex> i need to actually work on that problem
  262. 16:03 < thex> plz give me some time to evolve this before jumping to what i think i might know at this second
  263. 16:04 < AlSweigart> Okay. But *please* write up more info on the bridge and what it
  264. 16:04 < AlSweigart> 'll be used for on the wiki page. It doesn't have much info on it right now.
  265. 16:06  * thex reasonable request acknowledged