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  1. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 23 00:08:49 2014
  2.  
  3. Jul 23 00:08:49 * Now talking on #newbietrain
  4. Jul 23 00:08:49 * Topic for #newbietrain is: Welcome to the Newbie Train! Your conductors today are Ops, TBW, and Muss!
  5. Jul 23 00:08:49 * Topic for #newbietrain set by Ops (Tue Jul 22 18:15:28 2014)
  6. Jul 23 00:08:50 <OJ> what I /intended/ was that it would imply that Sight the aspect takes heavy inspiration from postmodernism
  7. Jul 23 00:09:14 <Sesh> Zero nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  8. Jul 23 00:09:27 <Zerovirus> witness the incredible power of my nepotistic connections!
  9. Jul 23 00:09:29 <Zerovirus> i am a social master
  10. Jul 23 00:10:02 <OJ> You could've just /asked/
  11. Jul 23 00:10:38 <Sesh> its fine dont worry about it
  12. Jul 23 00:10:44 <OJ> but yeah it's basically if you want to play Sight read about postmodernism, same way if you want to play Light read about probability and stuff
  13. Jul 23 00:11:09 <OJ> or to play Mind read about computers and neuroscience
  14. Jul 23 00:11:12 <Zerovirus> to be a bit more specific about it- i'm not an expert on postmodernism, but i think the thought process there is basically like this:
  15. Jul 23 00:11:27 <Zerovirus> from postmodernism's perspective, the value of art comes in its ability to deliver powerful messages to the viewer
  16. Jul 23 00:11:35 <Sesh> guys really its fine
  17. Jul 23 00:11:36 <Sesh> stahp
  18. Jul 23 00:11:56 <Zerovirus> these powerful messages are most... powerful if it's like, political and/or social commentary, and postemrodernism believes the best way to deliver a message is by subverting expectations
  19. Jul 23 00:11:58 <Zerovirus> that's really it
  20. Jul 23 00:12:00 <Zerovirus> okay i'm going to bed
  21. Jul 23 00:12:04 <OJ> g'ni
  22. Jul 23 00:12:35 * Zerovirus has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  23. Jul 23 00:12:52 <Ops> oops I wandered off
  24. Jul 23 00:14:07 <Ops> looks like the resident glass of oj got it covered tho
  25. Jul 23 00:14:36 <Sesh> resident glass?
  26. Jul 23 00:15:39 <OJ> Glass of orange juice
  27. Jul 23 00:16:11 <OJ> but yes it would be even better if you just threw out half-formed ideas and I told you how they fit or didn't fit with my conceptions
  28. Jul 23 00:17:20 <Sesh> still not gettin the whole glass thing but w/e
  29. Jul 23 00:17:35 <Sesh> and OJ its fine, I dont need help
  30. Jul 23 00:17:53 <Sesh> brb
  31. Jul 23 00:23:27 * Sesh has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  32. Jul 23 00:24:57 <OJ> hmm
  33. Jul 23 00:25:10 <OJ> pity
  34. Jul 23 00:25:31 <OJ> but yeah Sight is something I sorta created after reading lots and lots of academic type material and stitching it together
  35. Jul 23 00:26:20 <OJ> for someone without the benefit of that being their hobby, it is necessary to learn academicspeak and see it in use: Storming the Ivory Tower is a good entry-level literary analysis blog (about fandom, even!) and then after that there's lots of stuff
  36. Jul 23 00:27:09 <OJ> like, there's a Critical Analysis subreddit that I'd probably recommend as a next step after that
  37. Jul 23 00:27:20 * Ops has quit (Quit: )
  38. Jul 23 00:27:25 <Chroniker> Oh man, this is neat o:
  39. Jul 23 00:28:11 * Sesh (630ead03@sirc-AFAE97F3.mibbit.com) has joined
  40. Jul 23 00:31:10 <Chroniker> I swear, the fanaspects and titles were my favorite part of Sburb Glitch FAQ, so every time one is explained in more detail, I'm like "omg yay"
  41. Jul 23 00:31:30 <Sesh> SAME
  42. Jul 23 00:31:38 <Sesh> did I miss anything?
  43. Jul 23 01:00:16 <OJ> <OJ> but yeah Sight is something I sorta created after reading lots and lots of academic type material and stitching it together
  44. Jul 23 01:00:16 <OJ> <OJ> for someone without the benefit of that being their hobby, it is necessary to learn academicspeak and see it in use: Storming the Ivory Tower is a good entry-level literary analysis blog (about fandom, even!) and then after that there's lots of stuff
  45. Jul 23 01:00:16 <OJ> <OJ> like, there's a Critical Analysis subreddit that I'd probably recommend as a next step after that
  46. Jul 23 01:01:09 <Sesh> which subreddit?
  47. Jul 23 01:03:04 <OJ> http://www.reddit.com/r/criticaltheory
  48. Jul 23 01:03:05 <OJ> whoops
  49. Jul 23 01:03:08 <OJ> it was called Critical Theory
  50. Jul 23 01:03:32 <OJ> it's not all good, but it's the Internet, you have to sift through crap anyway
  51. Jul 23 01:03:57 <OJ> http://stormingtheivorytower.blogspot.com/ and this is the other blog thing
  52. Jul 23 01:04:08 <OJ> (the second post is about Homestuck!A)
  53. Jul 23 01:04:20 <OJ> (where did that A come from)
  54. Jul 23 01:05:53 <Chroniker> Bookmarking both of these~
  55. Jul 23 01:06:18 <OJ> also, Wikiwalking for a couple hours starting from the Postmodernism article could help too
  56. Jul 23 01:06:29 <OJ> and nobody really worked out Sight much but yeah the primary part is the FSZ
  57. Jul 23 01:06:43 <OJ> you basically have free reign to make up abilities, really
  58. Jul 23 01:06:48 <OJ> so long as they're intheme
  59. Jul 23 01:07:16 <OJ> so
  60. Jul 23 01:07:30 <OJ> Seer of Sight is hilariously redundant and also pretty in-theme - the use of the FSZ for scrying is pretty straightforward
  61. Jul 23 01:07:56 <OJ> something more like a Knight of Sight that's supposed to bash things until they stay dead? Bashing things until they stay dead is pretty Knightly anyway, but if you add Sight coloring, it's... hmm.
  62. Jul 23 01:09:01 <OJ> Self-buffs, maybe. Also ending confrontations or heading them off by making a show of strength. Also possibly illusion-casting in combat, at higher levels.
  63. Jul 23 01:09:29 <OJ> Mage of Sight gets you Mr. "I Peed In A Jar And Put A Plastic Figurine In It And Called It Art".
  64. Jul 23 01:09:40 <OJ> (Which is an actual thing. Look up Piss Christ.)
  65. Jul 23 01:09:50 <Sesh> I think Im good
  66. Jul 23 01:10:00 <OJ> It may prove productive to distinguish from Dreams
  67. Jul 23 01:10:11 <OJ> because Dreams is /creativity/ where Sight is more like /perspective/
  68. Jul 23 01:10:26 <OJ> eh
  69. Jul 23 01:10:27 <OJ> honestly
  70. Jul 23 01:10:36 <OJ> it's a thing I made I will blather on about it whether you tell me to or not
  71. Jul 23 01:10:44 <OJ> unless you'd rather I talk about, like, Mind or something
  72. Jul 23 01:10:54 <OJ> because I can blather about that instead if you'd rather
  73. Jul 23 01:11:04 <Sesh> OJ I appreciate you trying to help but I honestly dont think Im smart enough to understand what you are saying
  74. Jul 23 01:11:17 <Sesh> feel free to blather on about whatever you like though
  75. Jul 23 01:11:33 <Sesh> what you are saying about sight is interesting
  76. Jul 23 01:11:39 <Sesh> I just dont get it
  77. Jul 23 01:12:52 <OJ> It's mostly not about smart, it's about making the right leaps of intuition, IMO
  78. Jul 23 01:13:47 <Sesh> I guess Im just not making those leaps, cause I dont get it
  79. Jul 23 01:13:55 <Sesh> Im reading through that blog now
  80. Jul 23 01:14:01 <Sesh> maybe that'll help
  81. Jul 23 01:14:04 <OJ> Well, let's start at the beginning. What do you think is the purpose of art?
  82. Jul 23 01:15:21 <Sesh> If I were being 100% pragmatic and an ass Id say to entertain bored people
  83. Jul 23 01:15:38 <OJ> Okay. What about if you were being optimistic?
  84. Jul 23 01:15:39 <Sesh> but i feel like you're looking for an answer like 'to express ideas"
  85. Jul 23 01:15:49 <Sesh> to express ideas
  86. Jul 23 01:15:51 <OJ> Heh. It's not an invalid answer!
  87. Jul 23 01:16:13 <OJ> A lot of art is "folk art", which mostly serves the purpose of being pretty to make life a bit easier.
  88. Jul 23 01:17:09 <OJ> So, like, quilts. Elaborately decorated hand tools. Folk songs. You know?
  89. Jul 23 01:17:23 <OJ> But that'
  90. Jul 23 01:17:35 <OJ> But that's veering towards the Dreamsish interpretation, so let's take the second answer.
  91. Jul 23 01:17:40 <OJ> Do you know about memes?
  92. Jul 23 01:17:52 <Sesh> ...yes
  93. Jul 23 01:18:28 <OJ> Okay. You know at least about the Internet definition of meme, which is "something that people like to repeat to signal they're in the in-group, or at least that they think they're in the in-group".
  94. Jul 23 01:18:42 <OJ> Such as Homestuck people and stairs jokes.
  95. Jul 23 01:18:53 <Sesh> yeah I get it
  96. Jul 23 01:18:56 <Sesh> so far
  97. Jul 23 01:19:13 <OJ> It comes from a book by Richard Dawkins, which proposed that a unit of ideas is at least as important as a unit of genetics.
  98. Jul 23 01:19:19 <OJ> And can be treated in at least some of the same ways.
  99. Jul 23 01:19:45 <OJ> For example, a tribe may have /genes/ that help them survive, but they'll also have /memes/ - in this case, the ability to construct tents, or the working techniques for stone axes, that can also help them.
  100. Jul 23 01:20:19 <OJ> Catchy songs are this kind of meme. As are political slogans.
  101. Jul 23 01:20:30 <OJ> They're ideas that reproduce themselves, just like genes do.
  102. Jul 23 01:21:04 <OJ> Following?
  103. Jul 23 01:21:26 <Sesh> yes
  104. Jul 23 01:22:03 <OJ> So, for example, comedians specialize in making memes: jokes are memes that reproduce themselves by being just a little bit unexpected at the end, therefore being funny.
  105. Jul 23 01:22:47 <OJ> You hear them, you retell them, if you're really good at making up novel ones you become popular.
  106. Jul 23 01:23:15 <Sesh> yeah okay
  107. Jul 23 01:23:19 <OJ> But comedians can also use their meme-generating ability to put a /payload/ on the meme
  108. Jul 23 01:23:29 <OJ> much like you could put a plasmid containing a special gene into a bacterium
  109. Jul 23 01:23:48 <OJ> This payload is sometimes specifically used to spark social change.
  110. Jul 23 01:23:49 <Sesh> aaand Im lost
  111. Jul 23 01:24:06 <Chroniker> Basically putting a message in the meme.
  112. Jul 23 01:24:12 <Chroniker> Right?
  113. Jul 23 01:24:16 <Sesh> okay
  114. Jul 23 01:24:32 <OJ> Yeah. Like making a joke about George W. Bush's ears to insinuate that he's ridiculous and unfit for office very very slowly.
  115. Jul 23 01:24:49 <Sesh> lol okay
  116. Jul 23 01:25:00 * Muss has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  117. Jul 23 01:25:01 <OJ> Beautiful songs can do this kind of payload thing too. As can good writing. As can certain kinds of visual art - see propaganda posters.
  118. Jul 23 01:25:25 <OJ> They're not all /funny/, but they have memes, ways of spreading themselves that stick in your brain.
  119. Jul 23 01:26:00 <OJ> So this is what you need for the first of Zero's statements, namely: <Zerovirus> from postmodernism's perspective, the value of art comes in its ability to deliver powerful messages to the viewer
  120. Jul 23 01:26:19 <OJ> More sticky memes, or memes that carry more payload, are better
  121. Jul 23 01:26:28 <Sesh> okay
  122. Jul 23 01:26:53 <OJ> now let's see the second one:
  123. Jul 23 01:26:53 <OJ> <Zerovirus> these powerful messages are most... powerful if it's like, political and/or social commentary, and postemrodernism believes the best way to deliver a message is by subverting expectations
  124. Jul 23 01:27:20 <OJ> Subverting expectations. Like jokes can be funny because the ending is unexpected.
  125. Jul 23 01:27:35 <Sesh> okay
  126. Jul 23 01:27:40 <OJ> Arguably, postmodernism is a massive practical joke on the art industry.
  127. Jul 23 01:27:43 <Sesh> still getting it
  128. Jul 23 01:28:20 <OJ> Basically, if you argue hard enough, you can make poorly-drawn oil paintings or toilets be considered art.
  129. Jul 23 01:28:36 <Sesh> okay
  130. Jul 23 01:28:44 <OJ> From /another/ angle, postmodernism is a kind of art that wants you to examine your preconceptions.
  131. Jul 23 01:29:06 <OJ> This is harder for me to explain because I have fewer examples to hand, but let me see.
  132. Jul 23 01:29:38 <Sesh> yeah sorry that you have to break out the eli5 talk
  133. Jul 23 01:29:39 <OJ> Like... ninjas.
  134. Jul 23 01:29:44 <Sesh> you really dont have to do this
  135. Jul 23 01:29:52 <OJ> No no this is entertaining for me
  136. Jul 23 01:30:07 <Chroniker> It's interesting~!
  137. Jul 23 01:30:33 <OJ> It was a /convention/ of Japanese theater, much like a panel border in a cartoon or a picture being square, that the stagehands that set up and took down sets were dressed entirely in black, to make them less visible and signal to the audience that they could be ignored.
  138. Jul 23 01:31:00 <OJ> So when one of them suddenly pulled out a knife and stabbed the main character in the middle of act 4...
  139. Jul 23 01:31:04 <OJ> That's /startling/.
  140. Jul 23 01:31:27 <OJ> It forces you to try to figure out how ninjas fit in with all the /other/ theater programs you saw.
  141. Jul 23 01:31:58 <OJ> And that is how we get today's conceptions of ninjas, more or less.
  142. Jul 23 01:32:11 <OJ> Probably ninjas in those times that actually existed just wore peasant clothes.
  143. Jul 23 01:32:15 <OJ> They'd be less visible, in practice.
  144. Jul 23 01:32:28 <OJ> It's only within the bounds of /theater/ that they wear all black.
  145. Jul 23 01:32:36 <OJ> Similarly... hmm.
  146. Jul 23 01:32:46 <Chroniker> Oh wow, the concept of stage crew being ninjas suddenly makes a whole lot more sense now.
  147. Jul 23 01:32:52 <OJ> Homestuck is really good at doing the subverting shit thing
  148. Jul 23 01:32:57 <Chroniker> I mean, it did before, but whoooooa
  149. Jul 23 01:33:17 <OJ> Like, you know how all the Flashes fit inside the panel borders, until Cascade where the Flash animation starts expanding out into a bigger size?
  150. Jul 23 01:33:26 <OJ> That's kind of the same thing.
  151. Jul 23 01:33:51 <OJ> As is during the Doc Scratch segment when part of the action starts happening in the top narrow panel where the title of the site is supposed to go.
  152. Jul 23 01:34:03 <OJ> As is Caliborn literally taking over and scribbling all over Homestuck.
  153. Jul 23 01:34:40 <Sesh> Im still following
  154. Jul 23 01:34:43 <OJ> In most normal books, you can trust the narrator, he doesn't get sniped by the major villain midway through, etc.
  155. Jul 23 01:34:54 <OJ> Then you get, like, _House of Leaves_ or something.
  156. Jul 23 01:35:08 <Sesh> oh god
  157. Jul 23 01:35:16 <Sesh> house of leaves fucked my mind so hard
  158. Jul 23 01:35:27 <OJ> So, these principles are all executed inside of art.
  159. Jul 23 01:35:37 <Sesh> I need to go re read that...
  160. Jul 23 01:35:44 <OJ> What would be an art that makes you examine your preconceptions /outside/ of art?
  161. Jul 23 01:36:07 <OJ> Comedians, of course, although they've never been exhibited in art galleries so arguably they "don't count" (although I personally think they should count).
  162. Jul 23 01:36:22 <Sesh> Dune
  163. Jul 23 01:36:29 <Sesh> did for me at least
  164. Jul 23 01:36:31 <OJ> Would you like to explain?
  165. Jul 23 01:37:02 <OJ> (I'm thinking of Stephen Colbert, who deftly recites the Republican party line, but at the same time in a /way/ that exposes all the inconsistencies and stuff of it.)
  166. Jul 23 01:37:13 <OJ> (The fact that it is funny is merely the meme that makes the payload stick.)
  167. Jul 23 01:37:25 <Sesh> well just how in Dune Arrakis was seen as a burden
  168. Jul 23 01:37:34 <Sesh> but then it is a very valuable planet
  169. Jul 23 01:37:52 <OJ> Yeah! So like that, books can help you examine your preconceptions.
  170. Jul 23 01:38:10 <OJ> Such as putting across "don't judge a book by its cover" without actually being, um, about a book and its cover.
  171. Jul 23 01:38:17 <OJ> (Although it is a book and it has a cover.)
  172. Jul 23 01:38:52 <OJ> Postmodern art - okay, here's an interesting example. Let me get the Wikipedia article so we're all on the same page...
  173. Jul 23 01:39:20 <OJ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Bed
  174. Jul 23 01:39:49 <OJ> "The bed was presented in the state that Emin claimed it had been when she said she had not got up from it for several days due to suicidal depression brought on by relationship difficulties." What do you think it means that the artist said this?
  175. Jul 23 01:40:16 <OJ> It could have been a bed that was made. Why is a bed that /isn't/ made more valuable than a bed that /is/?
  176. Jul 23 01:40:51 <OJ> You could talk about how uniqueness of objects increases their value, because this bed is the only bed of its kind that can exist, whereas you can find a lot of made beds with white spreads and sheets in any department store.
  177. Jul 23 01:41:46 <OJ> There's also a common talk about menstrual blood: why was it objected to that menstrual blood was exhibited in public? Doesn't /every/ women menstruate? Why do women feel shame about having menstruations? (This is a common argument about many works that are made with menstrual blood.)
  178. Jul 23 01:41:57 <OJ> (And yes, there is a lot of art that is made with menstrual blood these days.)
  179. Jul 23 01:42:31 <OJ> If you apply this kind of questioning exhaustively to other things, you start to get the /mindset/ of Sight.
  180. Jul 23 01:43:42 <Sesh> you mean like why wear tampons or pads or whatever?
  181. Jul 23 01:43:50 <OJ> To an extent.
  182. Jul 23 01:44:01 <Sesh> because Im pretty sure thats to prevent blood from making a mess
  183. Jul 23 01:44:16 <Sesh> not because there is a social stigma against menstrual blood
  184. Jul 23 01:44:35 <OJ> Why do women need to put their menstrual products in the trash? Does this condition them to feel that their blood is harmful? In certain Native American cultures blood is celebrated as a symbol of fertility and women literally go out in the fields and menstruate on the plants to bless them.
  185. Jul 23 01:44:45 <OJ> Does not thinking that way mean that they are backward? That we are out of touch?
  186. Jul 23 01:45:12 <OJ> There are no right answers. There are a lot of interesting answers, though.
  187. Jul 23 01:45:21 <Sesh> if they didnt go in the trash where would they go? in a shrine to blood?
  188. Jul 23 01:45:43 <Sesh> why does toilet paper get flushed down the toilet
  189. Jul 23 01:45:52 <OJ> Because we need air holes drilled in our skulls.
  190. Jul 23 01:45:59 <Sesh> huh?
  191. Jul 23 01:45:59 <OJ> Sorry, _Artemis Fowl_ series reference.
  192. Jul 23 01:46:05 <Sesh> oh
  193. Jul 23 01:46:43 <OJ> The fairies (specifically the elves) do not like that we flush our perfectly nutritious manure down the toilet and then follow it up with bleach, call this "taking the fertile out of fertility", and suggest trepanning us as an insult.
  194. Jul 23 01:46:57 <OJ> You know, because they're elves and stereotypically attuned to nature and stuff.
  195. Jul 23 01:47:06 <Sesh> Ive read the books
  196. Jul 23 01:47:09 <Sesh> a long time ago
  197. Jul 23 01:47:34 <OJ> Eh, whatever. The point is
  198. Jul 23 01:47:52 <OJ> What happens if we apply this kind of questioning to Sburb?
  199. Jul 23 01:48:11 <OJ> Why are the alimentator and cookalizer perfect cubes that have no visible buttons, seams, electrical outlets, etc.?
  200. Jul 23 01:48:42 <OJ> They're game abstractions. The buttons really aren't tactile at all. The alimentator creates food out of literally nowhere.
  201. Jul 23 01:49:35 <OJ> But if you wanted to make a case for them... you could make them much more usable. If you make buttons and put ridges on them, you can make it so that you don't need to look at your appliance to operate it. You can make handles so toting it by hand is easier.
  202. Jul 23 01:49:52 <OJ> You could make a table fold out the bottom to make /sharing/ food more attractive.
  203. Jul 23 01:50:56 <OJ> You could analyze the propaganda posters on Derse and design counterposters to make fun of them, to help with the Derse revolution. This is actually something called culture jamming that was mildly popular in the 1990s among the type of people who would do this stuff.
  204. Jul 23 01:51:40 <OJ> http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-logo-flag-us-flag/ For example, this is "A US flag with the stars replaced by corporate logos, to symbolize the excessive power corporations hold over our government."
  205. Jul 23 01:52:03 <OJ> Does Derse have these kinds of logos? How could they be used to a revolution-making player's benefit?
  206. Jul 23 01:53:06 <OJ> The Fuckoff Symbolism Zone is also interesting. It taps into the same well of universal archetypes and hyperflexible mythology stuff that Sburb's class system does.
  207. Jul 23 01:53:19 <OJ> You can play with... basically, anything on TVTropes here.
  208. Jul 23 01:53:44 <Sesh> what do you mean>
  209. Jul 23 01:53:45 <Sesh> ?
  210. Jul 23 01:53:47 <OJ> Evil beards, people who look like other species if they /act/ like other species, a fedora on the session's neckbeard, etc.
  211. Jul 23 01:53:56 <Sesh> oh
  212. Jul 23 01:54:02 <Sesh> so just playing with tropes
  213. Jul 23 01:54:04 <OJ> The red string of fate.
  214. Jul 23 01:54:27 <OJ> Crystal balls, like I noted in the essay.
  215. Jul 23 01:55:29 <OJ> Lands look like they /actually/ track the player's mood even more than they do in RV canon itself - now lands don't just become dim when the Player is sleeping or sad, they grow flowers when someone's in love and spikes around places the player doesn't want you to go.
  216. Jul 23 01:55:36 <OJ> All in the FSZ, of course.
  217. Jul 23 01:56:03 <OJ> Popcorn magically appears in front of you if two people are about to have a particularly spectacular argument.
  218. Jul 23 01:56:10 <Sesh> is fsz your essay
  219. Jul 23 01:56:30 <OJ> I wrote "In Defense of the Perceptions", which does /mention/ the Fuckoff Symbolism Zone
  220. Jul 23 01:56:33 <OJ> it's not entirely /about/ it
  221. Jul 23 01:56:54 <OJ> it's the Sight player's scrying tool/augmented reality
  222. Jul 23 01:57:10 <Sesh> oooo okay
  223. Jul 23 01:57:23 <OJ> If someone lies, their pants start to smoulder.
  224. Jul 23 01:57:42 <Chroniker> Those poor, poor Sand players.
  225. Jul 23 01:57:56 <OJ> If you get enough ARC, you can start actually manifesting these effects in reality.
  226. Jul 23 01:58:16 <Sesh> okay
  227. Jul 23 01:58:21 <Sesh> sounds fun
  228. Jul 23 01:58:24 <OJ> Such as /actually/ growing spikes out of your Land. Or setting his pants on actual fire.
  229. Jul 23 01:58:51 <OJ> To an extent, you can even tap into the way /other/ people see reality, and, if you're careful, tweak it.
  230. Jul 23 01:59:27 <OJ> It's the opposite of Heart at that point, even - Heart helps with essence and "internal" things, Sight with what you think of the /outside/ world.
  231. Jul 23 02:00:11 <OJ> Heart and Sight could both help someone stop feeling attacked whenever another person opened their mouth, but the flavor text would be different and also for Sight it's a top-level ability where in Heart it's a mid-level ability.
  232. Jul 23 02:00:56 <OJ> In most cases, it's strictly less useful. But in /combat/, you could fuck with someone's perception enough that they'd jump at the rustling of trees behind them but not at your feet crunching across the ground, if you were /really/ /good/.
  233. Jul 23 02:01:10 <OJ> This is strictly endgame.
  234. Jul 23 02:01:11 <Sesh> but rage is the opposite of heart
  235. Jul 23 02:01:29 <Sesh> just sayin
  236. Jul 23 02:01:32 <OJ> could you explain that using different words?
  237. Jul 23 02:01:40 <OJ> (and I /know/ that Rage is the opposite of Heart)
  238. Jul 23 02:01:47 <OJ> (but yeah, stuff overlaps like this all the time)
  239. Jul 23 02:01:51 <OJ> (see also Mind overlapping with Heart)
  240. Jul 23 02:02:14 <Sesh> sorry
  241. Jul 23 02:02:56 <OJ> Yeah, actually fucking with someone's perception is something that I'd prefer used rarely, possibly 'round Black King time
  242. Jul 23 02:03:04 <OJ> everything else is creative repurposing of perception and metaphor
  243. Jul 23 02:03:17 <OJ> Lashing two people together to help them share their strength
  244. Jul 23 02:03:18 <Sesh> okey dokie
  245. Jul 23 02:03:37 <OJ> Oh, yeah, and - altering stuff /in/ the FSZ also reflects on them in reality in a metaphorical way
  246. Jul 23 02:04:20 <OJ> such as what I just said about lashing two people together, the way that would work is you would enter FSZ mode, pull out rope, tie a couple knots, get /out/ of FSZ mode, and they wouldn't literally be tied together but they would work together better for a while
  247. Jul 23 02:04:28 <OJ> it disintegrates after a while but you get better at it later on
  248. Jul 23 02:04:55 <OJ> or the thing I wrote in the essay about smashing the Seer's metaphorical crystal ball
  249. Jul 23 02:05:11 <OJ> It doesn't stop time, but you /do/ get to not be seen while you're in the FSZ, which is a cool side-effect.
  250. Jul 23 02:06:22 <OJ> I even think maybe the FSZ might not actually work in the Magicant? Not sure about that. You could probably go either way and it isn't terribly important, but I feel like "it just doesn't work" would help reinforce how /alien/ the Magicant feels/is compared to the rest of the game
  251. Jul 23 02:06:32 <OJ> So yeah.
  252. Jul 23 02:06:42 <OJ> Do you think that helps?
  253. Jul 23 02:06:48 <Sesh> yes
  254. Jul 23 02:06:50 <Sesh> a lot
  255. Jul 23 02:07:11 <Sesh> you have explained complex things to a simple mind, congrats
  256. Jul 23 02:07:15 <OJ> heh
  257. Jul 23 02:07:18 <Sesh> lol
  258. Jul 23 02:07:27 <OJ> like I said, it's not a matter of smart, it's a matter of having the right concepts put together the right way
  259. Jul 23 02:08:10 <Sesh> you did a good job ty
  260. Jul 23 02:12:57 <Chroniker> Yes, this was really helpful; thank you.
  261. Jul 23 02:16:36 <Sesh> so I have some ideas for flux, but Im worried it would overlap with rage and not be distinct enough
  262. Jul 23 02:32:29 <OJ> oh?
  263. Jul 23 02:32:30 <OJ> go on
  264. Jul 23 02:32:41 <OJ> (Flux never really got worked on.)
  265. Jul 23 02:33:10 <OJ> (But we do know it's kind of like Stage in that it's got tropes, but the way it uses tropes is... different? I think insofar as it actively subverts them instead of exploiting them.)
  266. Jul 23 02:33:52 <OJ> (So, guy specifically saving his name to be revealed at a dramatic moment so he doesn't die? Stage. Guy going "fuck that" and just introducing himself? Flux.)
  267. Jul 23 02:34:38 <OJ> (Redshirt getting killed for having a family photo, such as a squaddie in some mission involving Carapaces or other: Stage. Specifically working to make sure they stay alive after they show you their family photo: Flux.)
  268. Jul 23 02:35:59 <OJ> (Flux players are better at surviving low-ARC situations than Stage players because part of their schtick is defying tropes.)
  269. Jul 23 02:36:33 <Sesh> yeah
  270. Jul 23 02:36:40 <Sesh> sorry I wasnt paying attention
  271. Jul 23 02:36:45 <OJ> (There's probably a strategy specifically for Flux that involves skimming the safe ARC boundary for long periods of time because it grants you some other kind of bonus)
  272. Jul 23 02:36:52 <Sesh> yeah I was thinking that flux could be about change
  273. Jul 23 02:36:54 <OJ> (not sure what kind)
  274. Jul 23 02:37:33 <Sesh> like, flux would assert changes and then stick with them
  275. Jul 23 02:37:40 <Sesh> like liquid metal hardening
  276. Jul 23 02:37:54 <Chroniker> Yeah, I think Flux is supposed to be about changing the status quo? That's what it said in the original fic anyway.
  277. Jul 23 02:38:02 <OJ> Yeah
  278. Jul 23 02:38:44 <Sesh> so yay, everything I thought was original actually isnt at all
  279. Jul 23 02:41:32 <Sesh> would it be possible that the aspect itself is in a constant state of
  280. Jul 23 02:41:37 <Sesh> flux
  281. Jul 23 02:41:38 <Sesh> hehehe
  282. Jul 23 02:41:50 <Sesh> and so it is different for everybody?
  283. Jul 23 02:44:32 <OJ> Someone else from RV I said this to thinks that maybe Flux is about metagaming and min-maxing
  284. Jul 23 02:45:03 <Sesh> what would metagaming mean
  285. Jul 23 02:45:06 <Sesh> in terms of sburb
  286. Jul 23 02:45:56 <OJ> well, what does metagaming mean for regular games?
  287. Jul 23 02:46:54 <Sesh> using out of game info in game
  288. Jul 23 02:47:17 <Sesh> but in sburb everything is in game
  289. Jul 23 02:47:17 <OJ> So
  290. Jul 23 02:47:19 <OJ> Hmm
  291. Jul 23 02:47:20 <OJ> Well
  292. Jul 23 02:47:22 <OJ> There are FAQs
  293. Jul 23 02:47:25 <OJ> for the game
  294. Jul 23 02:47:34 <OJ> so you could spoiler yourself on later encounters and stuff
  295. Jul 23 02:47:49 <Sesh> but isnt that kind of a given?
  296. Jul 23 02:47:55 <Sesh> since people are replaying
  297. Jul 23 02:48:00 <Sesh> they already know
  298. Jul 23 02:48:42 <OJ> Obviously this would be more important for, like, a first-sessioner
  299. Jul 23 02:49:08 <OJ> Hmm
  300. Jul 23 02:49:16 <OJ> Maybe a better word to use could be "munchkining"
  301. Jul 23 02:50:07 <OJ> If any other player tries to make Pun-Pun, they get backhanded by the game and possibly die. If the Flux player tries, they get a grudging "...yes, but only this once".
  302. Jul 23 02:50:08 <Sesh> that makes more sense yeah
  303. Jul 23 02:50:23 <Sesh> to make pun-pun?
  304. Jul 23 02:50:59 <Sesh> as in making puns?
  305. Jul 23 02:51:05 <OJ> It's the nickname for a particular munchkin that was made in D&D rules
  306. Jul 23 02:51:07 <OJ> google it
  307. Jul 23 02:51:38 <OJ> Granted, you get much less degrees of freedom in actual Sburb 'cos you only get the one character and you can't change stats from inside without just playing the game
  308. Jul 23 02:51:40 <OJ> but
  309. Jul 23 02:51:59 <OJ> stuff like forging prophecies? talking to one prospitian that increases your rep when you talk to him hundreds of times?
  310. Jul 23 02:52:02 <OJ> that kinda thing
  311. Jul 23 02:52:12 <Sesh> so basically making punpun is using dumb ways to get OP fast
  312. Jul 23 02:52:32 <OJ> not necessarily "dumb", but unexpected, sometimes boring, sometimes dangerous/risky
  313. Jul 23 02:52:39 <Sesh> yeah
  314. Jul 23 02:52:40 <Sesh> okay
  315. Jul 23 02:52:41 <Sesh> makes sense
  316. Jul 23 02:52:41 <OJ> to an extent gamebreaking may even be covered
  317. Jul 23 02:52:54 <OJ> gamebreaking /might/ get you ARC
  318. Jul 23 02:52:57 <OJ> I'm not sure how I'd play it
  319. Jul 23 02:53:01 <Sesh> so like abusing a glitch in a recurring high level dungeon to do it early game
  320. Jul 23 02:53:03 <Sesh> or something
  321. Jul 23 02:53:35 <Sesh> but then what would flux be trying to get you to learn
  322. Jul 23 02:53:41 <Sesh> to /not/ follow the rules
  323. Jul 23 02:54:14 <OJ> to understand what the rules are and to abuse them for fun and profit
  324. Jul 23 02:54:23 <OJ> because just not following the rules is something anyone can do
  325. Jul 23 02:54:33 <OJ> you must turn not following the rules into an artform
  326. Jul 23 02:54:42 <OJ> so just like Stage, in a sense
  327. Jul 23 02:54:54 <OJ> everything that you do should be art
  328. Jul 23 02:54:59 <Sesh> okay this is getting fun
  329. Jul 23 02:55:35 <Sesh> would you also say that flux could be about finding loopholes? that fits into the theme
  330. Jul 23 02:55:57 <OJ> except whereas in Stage you use the circumstances to make art, in Flux you fuck around with the circumstances to make things happen in your favor and in so doing you also create a sort of aesthetic beauty somehow
  331. Jul 23 02:56:13 <Sesh> okay yeah
  332. Jul 23 02:56:31 <OJ> as Flux
  333. Jul 23 02:56:35 <OJ> you /are/ the ninja
  334. Jul 23 02:56:38 <Sesh> that also fits in with what has already been determined for flux, which is basically just the unite synchronizations
  335. Jul 23 02:56:48 <OJ> I wrote most of those
  336. Jul 23 02:56:53 <Sesh> ahh
  337. Jul 23 02:56:56 <Sesh> well then
  338. Jul 23 02:58:10 <OJ> like, not all of them, but well over half, maybe two-thirds
  339. Jul 23 02:58:18 <Sesh> impressive
  340. Jul 23 02:58:21 <OJ> like, it was set up and most people just added a couple and left? I kept going
  341. Jul 23 02:58:52 <OJ> I am proudest of... honestly, most of them
  342. Jul 23 02:59:33 <OJ> like, Flesh/Flux is Windows 95, which was intended to be a reference to this: http://windows95tips.com/
  343. Jul 23 03:00:33 <Sesh> heh does that mean windows 95 is a universal constant?
  344. Jul 23 03:00:56 <OJ> I dunno, should it?
  345. Jul 23 03:01:27 <Sesh> well, it wouldnt make much sense to an all troll session to have it if they didnt have windows 95
  346. Jul 23 03:01:52 <OJ> Also, like, Coins/Doom is Toxic Assets (Coins is about value), and Flow/Sight is Burning Man, and Law/Rhyme is Just Ice
  347. Jul 23 03:02:01 <OJ> basically I love half the chart and have written even more
  348. Jul 23 03:02:22 <Sesh> there are some fun ones for sure
  349. Jul 23 03:02:27 <OJ> your favorites?
  350. Jul 23 03:03:15 <Sesh> I like grey and ray morality
  351. Jul 23 03:03:24 <OJ> I also like Light/Void "Nobody's Listening to Your Bullshit", Space/Rain "Restaurant at the End of the Universe", Heart/Flesh "Through the Stomach"...
  352. Jul 23 03:03:43 <Sesh> oo that space rain one is good
  353. Jul 23 03:03:50 <Sesh> grey and gray*
  354. Jul 23 03:04:23 <Sesh> and dancing on the ceiling
  355. Jul 23 03:04:42 <Sesh> I really like all the ones for stars
  356. Jul 23 03:04:43 <OJ> Rage/Heart "Ministry of Love", Hope/Rhyme "Spit Bounce" (if it gets cold enough, if you actually spit, it will freeze before it hits the ground and bounce)...
  357. Jul 23 03:04:47 <Sesh> and for flux actually
  358. Jul 23 03:06:31 <OJ> Hope/Joy "Immaculate Conception", Rage/Law "Entrapment", Light/Mind "Consider the Following", Sight/Time "Waiting for Godot"...
  359. Jul 23 03:07:30 <OJ> The joke is that Waiting for Godot is an "artsy", incomprehensible play that would go well with Sight, but the title has lots of Time in it
  360. Jul 23 03:07:38 * OJ explaining the joke
  361. Jul 23 03:07:49 <OJ> Oh, yeah
  362. Jul 23 03:07:54 <OJ> Stars/Time is "Wibbly-Wobbly"
  363. Jul 23 03:07:59 <Sesh> yeah lol
  364. Jul 23 03:08:01 <Sesh> I saw that
  365. Jul 23 03:08:14 <Sesh> like I said I like all of the stars and flux ones really
  366. Jul 23 03:08:43 <OJ> I like Rage, Void, Heart, Mind (partially because I'm the only one that gets most of the Mind jokes), Joy...
  367. Jul 23 03:09:12 <Chroniker> My favorite has to be Rage/Sound's "Do You Hear The People Sing?" Mostly because I can't resist a Les Mis reference.
  368. Jul 23 03:09:21 <OJ> Oh yeah, I also enjoy Sight, Light, and Sand
  369. Jul 23 03:09:33 <OJ> Sand/Rage "Rubber-Hose Cryptanalysis"
  370. Jul 23 03:09:50 <OJ> Flux/Light "I Know You Know I Know"
  371. Jul 23 03:10:21 <OJ> Joy/Dust "Hero with a Thousand Faces"
  372. Jul 23 03:10:30 <OJ> Blood/Dreams "Dedication Page"
  373. Jul 23 03:10:39 <OJ> someone make me stop pls
  374. Jul 23 03:11:06 <Sesh> I was just gonna leave you to gush over your own brilliance for a bit
  375. Jul 23 03:11:17 <OJ> Might/Fate "Crowdsourcing", Dreams/Rain "Hadron Kaleidoscope", Mind/Coins "Pearl in the Wine"
  376. Jul 23 03:11:48 * Sesh say "OJ, stop now. you need to eat, you've been sitting in this room muttering in jokes to yourself for days now"
  377. Jul 23 03:12:21 <OJ> Which is a reference to a bet that Cleopatra won - she bet someone that she could drink a million dollars' worth of wine. Obviously this would generally be impossible without killing your liver, but she dropped a pearl in her wine, swirled it around a bit, and then swallowed it.
  378. Jul 23 03:12:37 <OJ> Other tellings specify that it was wine alcohol, which can dissolve pearls
  379. Jul 23 03:12:58 <OJ> Also obviously it wasn't actually a million dollars but some ancient equivalent
  380. Jul 23 03:13:03 <OJ> but you get the point
  381. Jul 23 03:13:04 <Sesh> yes
  382. Jul 23 03:13:09 <Sesh> I do get it
  383. Jul 23 03:13:28 <Sesh> we spent a day talking about that in history after I made a dumb bet with my teacher
  384. Jul 23 03:14:01 <OJ> Flow/Rhyme "So You Think You Can Dance", Dreams/Sand "A Million Little Pieces", Heart/Void "Dear John"
  385. Jul 23 03:14:13 <Sesh> OJ
  386. Jul 23 03:14:16 <Sesh> stahp
  387. Jul 23 03:14:40 <OJ> A Million Little Pieces was in the news a few years ago for being a fabricated memoir (Dreams is about art), and Dear John letters are letters to soldiers from their stateside girlfriends informing them of a unilateral breakup
  388. Jul 23 03:14:53 <OJ> they were an actual thing during WWII
  389. Jul 23 03:15:05 <OJ> okay okay fine
  390. Jul 23 03:15:09 <OJ> (<3)
  391. Jul 23 03:15:20 <Sesh> thank you
  392. Jul 23 03:15:55 <OJ> ...can I do one more
  393. Jul 23 03:15:56 <OJ> please
  394. Jul 23 03:15:59 <Sesh> yes
  395. Jul 23 03:16:02 <Sesh> one more
  396. Jul 23 03:16:14 <OJ> Might/Rage is "The Third Wave", which... well. That's a story in and of itself.
  397. Jul 23 03:16:16 <OJ> So
  398. Jul 23 03:16:22 <OJ> There was this history teacher, and he had a class
  399. Jul 23 03:16:31 <OJ> and he was trying to teach them why ordinary Germans followed the Nazis
  400. Jul 23 03:17:21 <OJ> so he had an idea: for a day, he would teach the class "Strength through Discipline", teaching them to sit up straight, file into the classroom quickly and quietly, answer questions by standing up and making suitable deference, etc.
  401. Jul 23 03:17:40 <OJ> He had /intended/ for it to be a day, but the next day the entire class filed in quickly and quietly, sat up straight, and basically asked for it to continue
  402. Jul 23 03:18:39 <OJ> so the teacher added "Strength through Community", which would be basically turning everyone in the class into members of a club that would increase school spirit and do good deeds - some got in charge of recruitment, some in charge of making banners, there was a special greeting, they picked up trash after school...
  403. Jul 23 03:18:59 <OJ> Next few days the class got larger and larger because there were people being recruited and many of them cut class to be there
  404. Jul 23 03:19:24 <OJ> So the history teacher was getting to the point where it was out of control and he needed to end it, so the third slogan became "Strength through Action"
  405. Jul 23 03:19:53 <OJ> in which it was revealed, or "revealed", that they were actually a pilot class for a presidential campaign by a youth group and that they would get an announcement from the national organization on Friday
  406. Jul 23 03:20:30 <OJ> everyone files into the assembly room quickly and quietly, sits up straight in front of the projector, all of them bound together by stuff like an invented vow of allegiance and more importantly feeling of /belonging/, and...
  407. Jul 23 03:20:47 <OJ> the projector plays a video of Adolf Hitler.
  408. Jul 23 03:21:01 <OJ> It takes a few minutes for this to sink in, but after that, all hell breaks loose.
  409. Jul 23 03:21:55 <OJ> The reason it's called The Third Wave - that was a thing that it was from the beginning. The lore was that the third wave in a chain of waves was the most powerful. Their secret handshake involved a hand salute that looked like topping the crest of a wave. They were powerful because they were together like the ocean.
  410. Jul 23 03:22:01 <OJ> And /that/ is why it is Might/Rage.
  411. Jul 23 03:22:36 <OJ> Good story?
  412. Jul 23 03:22:37 <Sesh> so much backstory
  413. Jul 23 03:22:42 <Sesh> yes good story
  414. Jul 23 03:23:12 <OJ> So yeah, that's the amount of thought that went into a lot of those.
  415. Jul 23 03:25:01 <OJ> Seriously, I'm still sitting here going "that is perfect" again and again
  416. Jul 23 03:26:19 <Sesh> you put a lot more thought into it than I would have
  417. Jul 23 03:26:24 <OJ> yes okay I should go to bed or at least take a shower and then go to bed
  418. Jul 23 03:26:31 <Sesh> yes bed
  419. Jul 23 03:26:32 <Sesh> good
  420. Jul 23 03:26:33 <Sesh> yes
  421. Jul 23 03:26:34 <Sesh> sleep
  422. Jul 23 03:26:49 <Chroniker> Generally a good idea, yes.
  423. Jul 23 03:26:49 <Sesh> night OJ
  424. Jul 23 03:26:53 <OJ> niii
  425. Jul 23 03:27:02 <OJ> (chroniker did you also like story)
  426. Jul 23 03:27:10 <Chroniker> (Yes, omg)
  427. Jul 23 03:28:03 <OJ> (awesome)
  428. Jul 23 03:28:06 <OJ> (now actually shower)
  429. Jul 23 03:28:11 <OJ> (and then bed)
  430. Jul 23 03:28:18 <Sesh> gooo OJ
  431. Jul 23 03:28:21 <Sesh> do iiiitt
  432. Jul 23 03:28:25 <Sesh> it will make you cool
  433. Jul 23 03:28:31 <Sesh> like cigarettes
  434. Jul 23 03:35:11 * Sesh has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  435. Jul 23 03:38:53 <OJ> okay yes shower taken let me bookmark a talk about Mind for tomorrow
  436. Jul 23 05:25:55 * Chroniker has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  437. Jul 23 06:44:45 * The_Prospitian_Watch is now known as The_Black_Watch
  438. Jul 23 08:00:10 * The_Black_Watch is now known as The_Wandering_Watch
  439. Jul 23 11:14:23 * The_Wandering_Watch is now known as The_Black_Watch
  440. Jul 23 12:52:54 * Sesh (630ead03@sirc-AFAE97F3.mibbit.com) has joined
  441. Jul 23 13:59:18 * The_Black_Watch has quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds)
  442. Jul 23 15:09:05 * Sesh has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  443. Jul 23 15:38:24 * The_Black_Watch (Rook@sirc-D80353DD.eastlink.ca) has joined
  444. Jul 23 16:29:58 * Sesh (630ead03@sirc-C71EDA54.mibbit.com) has joined
  445. Jul 23 17:04:02 * Ops (Ops@sirc-9C9B3017.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) has joined
  446. Jul 23 17:04:02 * ChanServ sets mode +q on #newbietrain Ops
  447. Jul 23 17:04:02 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Ops
  448. Jul 23 18:05:08 * Sesh has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  449. Jul 23 18:11:22 * Sesh (630ead03@sirc-C71EDA54.mibbit.com) has joined
  450. Jul 23 18:11:26 <Sesh> vidjagames
  451. Jul 23 18:11:29 <Sesh> shit
  452. Jul 23 18:11:32 <Sesh> I fucked up
  453. Jul 23 18:11:34 <Sesh> I fucked up
  454. Jul 23 18:14:40 * Sesh has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  455. Jul 23 18:16:17 * Sesh (630ead03@sirc-C71EDA54.mibbit.com) has joined
  456. Jul 23 18:27:54 * The_Black_Watch has quit (Quit: )
  457. Jul 23 21:04:42 <Sesh> Hey Ops
  458. Jul 23 21:04:53 <Sesh> can we talk about shit
  459. Jul 23 21:05:00 <Sesh> specifically the Flux aspect
  460. Jul 23 21:06:28 <Ops> sure?
  461. Jul 23 21:06:59 <Sesh> sorry I just had a question
  462. Jul 23 21:07:03 <Ops> it's fine
  463. Jul 23 21:07:07 <Sesh> if you are busy or whatever thats cool
  464. Jul 23 21:08:09 <Ops> nah I am just floating around the internet mindlessly
  465. Jul 23 21:08:32 <Sesh> thats all I ever do :D
  466. Jul 23 21:08:39 <Sesh> anyways
  467. Jul 23 21:08:53 <Sesh> I was talking to OJ last night/this early morning
  468. Jul 23 21:09:57 <Sesh> and so they were saying that flux is about "making rule breaking an artform"
  469. Jul 23 21:10:35 <Sesh> so like meta gaming, finding loopholes, munchkin-ing
  470. Jul 23 21:11:44 <Ops> mkay
  471. Jul 23 21:12:06 <Sesh> is that in line with what you had in mind for the aspect?
  472. Jul 23 21:12:21 <Ops> I'm sorry, I've never actually seen anyone /do/ anything with flux, and I don't remember where it came from, so I am actually pretty clueless about what it really... is?
  473. Jul 23 21:12:33 <Sesh> hmmm
  474. Jul 23 21:12:36 <Sesh> same
  475. Jul 23 21:13:06 <Sesh> well, what I was thinking is that it is an aspect of permanent change on the enviroment
  476. Jul 23 21:13:34 <Sesh> because its thing is liquid metal, and liquid metal will move and change, and then harden and not move anymore
  477. Jul 23 21:13:52 <Sesh> but i was worried that would overlap to much with rage and potentially law
  478. Jul 23 21:13:58 <Ops> it doesn't have any pages about it, it's the companion aspect to Dust which... also is basically non-existant within the scope of being played
  479. Jul 23 21:17:31 <Ops> it's... hm
  480. Jul 23 21:19:24 <Ops> while Dust has some remants of the original creator's intent left in the aspect doc, it never got a writeup. Flux is even worse off, it's so poorly defined a Void player'd feel right at home with it
  481. Jul 23 21:20:30 <Ops> In the confines of the setting, I honestly have no idea what the point of flux is, short of maybe abilities that play around with mercury-looking abilities
  482. Jul 23 21:21:13 <Ops> (Also, do you mind pasting what OJ said last night, if you can?)
  483. Jul 23 21:21:51 <Sesh> the log is gone for me
  484. Jul 23 21:21:56 <Sesh> how would I find it?
  485. Jul 23 21:22:10 <Sesh> and yeah, they worded everything much better than I did
  486. Jul 23 21:22:37 <Ops> you're a mibbiter, but do you have an account through mibbit? (If you don't, logs are lost and I'll ping OJ for them)
  487. Jul 23 21:22:58 <Sesh> I do
  488. Jul 23 21:23:05 <Sesh> oh I see it
  489. Jul 23 21:23:30 <Sesh> well, I see where it says logs
  490. Jul 23 21:23:45 <Sesh> it says I dont have anything logged though
  491. Jul 23 21:23:48 <Ops> click on it, it should open a tab off to the left
  492. Jul 23 21:23:53 <Ops> ah, you don't have logging turned on
  493. Jul 23 21:24:23 <Ops> (you should rummage through the settings tab at some point and turn that on so that you can find logs! it is helpful from time to time)
  494. Jul 23 21:25:18 <Sesh> its on now
  495. Jul 23 21:26:02 <Ops> well, anyway
  496. Jul 23 21:26:20 <Ops> I'll pester her later if I really think I need them.
  497. Jul 23 21:29:01 * Chroniker (4a252fd8@sirc-50ECA96B.mibbit.com) has joined
  498. Jul 23 21:30:32 <Ops> anyway, about Flux (and by extension Dust)- It is probably best to not use them until we get a writeup for them. Mostly because nobody knows how they work, and it might end up a hodgepodge thing that doesn't really fit in the rest of the setting
  499. Jul 23 21:30:52 <Sesh> aww okay
  500. Jul 23 21:31:15 <Sesh> well still, I want to try and think of something that works for them
  501. Jul 23 21:31:30 <Sesh> but for now, no flux
  502. Jul 23 21:34:53 <Ops> yeah, that's probably for the best, I'd think
  503. Jul 23 21:43:16 <Sesh> well then is coins alright?
  504. Jul 23 21:43:26 <Sesh> you said it would fit
  505. Jul 23 21:45:29 <Ops> Coins might work, yeah. I think the others I suggest were... Heart or Law?
  506. Jul 23 21:45:54 <Chroniker> Yeah, I remember you suggesting those.
  507. Jul 23 21:45:55 <Sesh> yes
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