[11:15 PM] Celestalon: Heard there was some confusion.
[11:15 PM] Babylonius: I know @Hinalover had a few good questions
[11:16 PM] Binkenstein: Is this where we link Genesis videos @Celestalon? :p
[11:16 PM] Kurokuma: Will sck do more damage tgan sds now?
[11:16 PM] Total: oh is new SEF player + 1 spirit + 1 spirit = 99% total damage? or is it doing more overall damage besides SCK?
[11:16 PM] Kurokuma: With cooldowns up?
[11:16 PM] Coldnyte: Is there a max stack on the buff we can get from sck from hitting different targets?
[11:16 PM] Celestalon: No.
[11:16 PM] Binkenstein: @Total I suspect it's 1/3 each but you know how rounding that in % goes
[11:16 PM] Celestalon: Wait, too many questions at once, hah.
[11:16 PM] Babylonius: id assume the max stack is less than 15 since thats how many globals it has
[11:17 PM] Total: so no max stacks on SCK
[11:17 PM] Celestalon: No max stacks on the SCK buff, apart from free globals within the time window.
[11:18 PM] Babylonius: are the changes specifically during the SEF cooldown period or all the time?
[11:18 PM] Babylonius: the changed cost and stacking
[11:19 PM] Celestalon: None of that is tied to SEF.
[11:19 PM] Celestalon: SEF just counts toward hitting targets, and also buffs SCK.
[11:19 PM] Babylonius: How does the stacks work? each unique target during the 15s window, or each target different from the previous one?
[11:19 PM] Reglitch: Does mistweaver benefit from the increased base damage 😄
[11:19 PM] Celestalon: The wording is intentional. Each unique target.
[11:19 PM] Total: is SEF intended to be a damage increase for anything other than SCK?
[11:20 PM] Celestalon: No, Tots.
[11:20 PM] Kurokuma: Will sef be a single target damage increase or it is purely an aoe cd?
[11:20 PM] Celestalon: It's purely an AoE CD.
[11:21 PM] Total: so tl;dr design intent is new SCK is a burst-AoE built up by hitting other targets while building Chi, and SEF's new purpose is an SCK-boosting cooldown by both increasing base damage and making it stack faster?
[11:21 PM] Celestalon: Correct.
[11:21 PM] Babylonius: Do the targets hit by SEF count toward SCK stacks?
[11:21 PM] Celestalon: Yes, Baby.
[11:21 PM] calli💩: keep the nicknames coming.
[11:22 PM] Celestalon: Alright, Calli-girl.
[11:22 PM] calli💩: 😄
[11:22 PM] Coldnyte: btw, now we know why there was no dev responses for months about WW.. it's all because they were doing all-nighters watching kung-fu movies.
[11:22 PM] Reglitch: mandatory renames incoming
[11:22 PM] calli💩: Exactly.
[11:22 PM] Babylonius: lol cold
[11:22 PM] Celestalon: (Calli and I are good friends, everyone, don't take that in the wrong way!)
[11:22 PM] Celestalon: True, Coldilocks.
[11:22 PM] calli💩: ❤
[11:22 PM] calli💩: OMG
[11:22 PM] Coldnyte: OMG
[11:22 PM] calli💩: bis.
[11:22 PM] Hinalover: Trevor would take that the wrong way
[11:22 PM] Babylonius: focus everyone
[11:22 PM] Coldnyte: screenshot, renaming now
[11:22 PM] calli💩: trevor will learn to deal
[11:23 PM] Total: how does combo strikes (mastery)  play into this? any worry that mastery is not tied at all by incentivizing using TP --> TP --> SCK?
[11:23 PM] Hinalover: I'm more thinking TP TP TP BoK SCK
[11:23 PM] Celestalon: Well, A) in that case, all that's losing the mastery buff is TP, which doesn't do a lot of damage anyway.
[11:24 PM] Hinalover: Which I think is the point isn't it?
[11:24 PM] Total: hm right still applied to SCK
[11:24 PM] Hinalover: you do a BoK to get the mastery going BEFORE SCK
[11:24 PM] Celestalon: And B) I think TP-BoK-TP-SCK would be more likely.
[11:24 PM] Babylonius: Are there planned changes to Serenity? because of how it could intereact with something like this allowing you to spam strong abilities and "free SCK"?
[11:24 PM] Celestalon: (Oh, right, that'd be with the 3chi version of SCK. We're still undecided on 3 vs 4 cost.)
[11:24 PM] Hinalover: From zero chi though,  that is still only 3 chi
[11:25 PM] Total: I think at 4 there might not be enough room to spend chi on anything else and it might feel a bit one-dimensional
[11:25 PM] calli💩: pooling gameplay. That's wehre you set the better planners vs the just good.
[11:25 PM] Celestalon: Aye Total, that's the concern. Upside of 4 is that we can make it do much more damage.
[11:26 PM] Total: do the SEF spirits seek new targets now or still sit on the same one?
[11:26 PM] calli💩: the nice thing, too, is if we're underperforming
[11:26 PM] calli💩: its detrimental to buff sef. Instead, base abilities could instead be adjusted
[11:26 PM] Kurokuma: The new sef implies taking serenity right? Because geting SDS seems like a waste?
[11:26 PM] calli💩: thus, we aren't gated as much by sef.
[11:26 PM] Celestalon: Sit on the same one, but if you do hit one that they're on, they'll seek out a new one (so it's still a net gain of 1 for your attack).
[11:26 PM] Izzirez: oh hi Celestalon. I haven't been paying attention whats our current topic?
[11:26 PM] Total: WW being turned upside-down
[11:26 PM] calli💩: ww chanegs: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742866534#5
World of Warcraft
Windwalker Monk Feedback -- Build 21414 -- 6-Apr
Please feel free to reply to this thread with feedback you have on this specialization in the most recent version of the Legion Alpha. You'll find class designer notes on this build here. This thread and subforum are for class feedback. We may not be attentive to other threads on this subject. Please confine

[11:27 PM] calli💩: and critiquing his choices in kung fu movies.
[11:27 PM] Hinalover: I think the concern still is breaking stuns in PvP and attacking 99% damage reduction bosses
[11:27 PM] Reglitch: Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
[11:27 PM] Izzirez: ahh i haven't looked through WW changes yet
[11:27 PM] Hinalover: but that is an AI issue that some are concerned would be too much to factor in
[11:27 PM] Babylonius: ^^
[11:27 PM] Celestalon: The 99% DR bosses is a solvable problem, Hina.
[11:28 PM] Total: oh, can the SEF spirits still die? that would seem really bad to happen to a cooldown (not that it happens often)
[11:28 PM] Volstatsz: So, maybe I'm late to this party, but - how far will clones go to find a target?  Right now it hurts to watch them run (or waddle, in my panda's case,) over to a super-distant target.  It would hurt a lot more if I had no control over that movement.
[11:28 PM] Celestalon: Can, yes, but unlikely, Total.
[11:28 PM] Celestalon: Volzy, only things you're already in combat with.
[11:28 PM] Izzirez: they can still die, had the first boss in blackrook hold kill them a few times because of all the fire and the imps
[11:29 PM] Volstatsz: In a raid encounter, that could still be really far, I would think...
[11:29 PM] Babylonius: How does this effect RJW as a talent?
[11:29 PM] wordup: Did I mis the nickname train? 😦
[11:29 PM] Celestalon: Oh it still prefers closer ones.
[11:29 PM] Volstatsz: Dig it, thank you.
[11:29 PM] Celestalon: No, Wordupperous, you didn't.
[11:29 PM] Kurokuma: Good question babylonius
[11:29 PM] Izzirez: going to read the WW stuff. Let me know if I have to make another Celestalon meme.
[11:30 PM] wordup: 10/10, thank you celery!
[11:30 PM] Reglitch: b a n t e r
[11:30 PM] Celestalon: RJW stays as is for the moment. Same with WDP.
[11:30 PM] Coldnyte: #blamecelestalon when something goes wrong, and #framecelestalon when you don't know who did it
[11:30 PM] Babylonius: Currently RJW is the go to abiilty for AOE like that, but these changes would make it work against SCK stacking and chi cost
[11:31 PM] Coldnyte: I wonder how RJW will work with the "different targets hit" for SCK stacking
[11:31 PM] Total: would it be possible for each ability use cause SEF to hit its target, and find a new target? with its current functionality it would be pointless to spend any more time than absolutely necessary to get to the next SEF because the first ability would give a much bigger boost than subsequent ones (in a situation with 5+ targets)
[11:31 PM] Coldnyte: or is it only bok/rsk/tp?
[11:31 PM] Total: SCK is stated to only work with bok/rsk/tp
[11:31 PM] Kurokuma: So you could spam rjw and sck to always get masrery going
[11:32 PM] Coldnyte: btw, you guys keep saying "get mastery going"  mastery never drops off from the next ability, it's hit combo that does
[11:32 PM] Coldnyte: you'll lose mastery on the 2nd/3rd TP, but hitting SCK after that would gain the mastery
[11:32 PM] Celestalon: Total, I think that's only really a concern in cases with huge numbers of targets. In typical situations of 3-5 targets, it's trivial to hit all the targets yourself anyway.
[11:32 PM] Coldnyte: becasue it's not another TP
[11:32 PM] 🐩GBR🐩: First reaction is "i dont like it" need to try it out when the servers come up
[11:33 PM] Reglitch: Is tab targeting being improved?
[11:33 PM] Celestalon: Massively, Reglitch.
[11:33 PM] Reglitch: Sick
[11:33 PM] Celestalon: Already has been.
[11:33 PM] Total: it's a lot better already, no more tabbing to something 30 yards away instead of 5
[11:33 PM] Izzirez: i need to do the blackrock hold first boss with these changes. I could see us doing stupidly high dps because of all the imp cleave, although its completely superficial
[11:34 PM] Babylonius: Will there be any way to track if a target was hit by an ability so that it woudn't further add to SCK stacks?
[11:34 PM] Babylonius: with moving mobs and nameplates it would be very difficult to track on your own
[11:34 PM] Zolvolt: @Celestalon When was tab targeting imrpoved? i still ahve a lot of problems with it as of last alpha build
[11:35 PM] Izzirez: these changes make me like serenity for aoe fights now
[11:35 PM] Izzirez: RJW + serenity + SCK spam
[11:35 PM] Talby: Yeah serenity  is definately looking better
[11:35 PM] 🐩GBR🐩: "it now deals 50% additional damage for each unique target you (or your SEF spirits) have struck in the last 15sec with Tiger Palm, Blackout Kick, or Rising Sun Kick." sounds like we will be tab spaming abilites to game it as much as possible
[11:36 PM] Izzirez: also, because the reply mentions kung fu movies, i have to link this here.

[11:36 PM] Total: I believe math will show shortly that spending extra globals just to get a higher buff is not worth
[11:36 PM] ezekiel: yea a way to track that would be nice
[11:36 PM] Total: however
[11:36 PM] Ayr: Very interesting changes indeed.  Looking forward to seeing them in play from others.
[11:36 PM] Total: you COULD save up stacks before the burst is needed
[11:36 PM] Izzirez: youd probably want to just line up FoF before SCK
[11:36 PM] Izzirez: for the buff
[11:36 PM] Babylonius: Yeah, how to best handle your globals with this will be easy to math out
[11:36 PM] Izzirez: thats about it
[11:36 PM] Total: such as if adds were being held until a certain time
[11:36 PM] Total: FoF doesnt' buff SCK
[11:36 PM] Ayr: Does pooling for stuff like this go counter-intuitive to the idea of the super fast street fighter kick puncher?
[11:37 PM] Izzirez: oh wait, yeah i read that wrong
[11:37 PM] Jordan: to me it seems complicated without really adding depth in decision-making
[11:37 PM] Total: you shouldn't be pooling as much as sometimes hitting other targets once pre-emptively
[11:37 PM] Ayr: makes sense
[11:37 PM] Total: ideally you'd want as many stacks on the buff before it's time to aoe as possible
[11:37 PM] Jordan: it would be nice if there's some kind of indicator for if you've hit a guy for the sck buff yet
[11:37 PM] Jordan: otherwise tracking that will be really annoying
[11:38 PM] Babylonius: but you wouldnt be able to generate more stacks without more targets, and when there's more targets, 99/100 times its time to AOE
[11:38 PM] Kurokuma: Why implement the damage increase of sck on targets hit by single target spell?
[11:38 PM] Ayr: So we are goign to find out the ideal number of stacks/targets to hit before releasing the kraken?
[11:38 PM] Babylonius: if tab targettign cycles through all available targets before going to the same one a 2nd time then you woudn't really need to track it
[11:38 PM] Izzirez: the only time you would really be managing the buff would be when your building up more chi for another SCK
[11:39 PM] Izzirez: so tab targetting while building chi
[11:39 PM] Jordan: unless stuff spawns in a staggered fashion
[11:39 PM] Total: there are some fringe situations (quickly dying adds on HFA, maybe hit the grasping hand on Kromrok, hit adds passing by on kilrogg, etc)
[11:39 PM] Coldnyte: Ayr, it's never a good idea to RELEASE THE KRAKEN
[11:39 PM] Celestalon: General response to the concern about cycling through targets (probably with tab) being awkward: That was our biggest concern with this idea, no doubt. We tried it out though, and found it not to be a problem almost at all, in the vast vast majority of situations, and SEF helped with those. We were skeptical at first too, but found it pretty fun after just a few minutes.

Next build, give it a try, run a dungeon with it, and let us know how it went. We're definitely going to be looking for feedback on how that aspect of it feels in particular.
[11:39 PM] Talby: @Ayr Its going to get wierd with serenity and enegizing elixer
[11:40 PM] Coldnyte: Are there any debuffs to track which target has been hit?  Can there be one added for addon support?
[11:40 PM] Ayr: There was a reference to a tracker on the icon, how about something on the head of an enemy ala exploding palm?
[11:40 PM] Babylonius: Is there a way for SEF to prefer targets that haven't already been hit so that they do some of the work for you?
[11:40 PM] Hinalover: Will there be a debuff on the target that have been hit?
[11:41 PM] Celestalon: Give it a try in the next build, let us know how it feels. Thanks, gotta run!
[11:41 PM] Ayr: Hearts.
[11:41 PM] Coldnyte: Thinking about it, a debuff would be nice, but it's not like we're going to quickly tab wasting a gcd while looking for that one mob we haven't hit yet
[11:41 PM] Reglitch: Have a nice day :^)
[11:41 PM] Celestalon: Hina: Undecided.