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Terasology Dev Meeting Jun 9 2012

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  1. [2012-06-09 15:32:45] -->| YOU (Cervator) have joined #terasology
  2. [2012-06-09 15:32:46] =-= Topic for #terasology is ``Dev meeting Saturday at 4 pm EST: http://forum.movingblocks.net/threads/jun-9-2012-dev-meeting-site-blocks-art-irc.362/ - feedback on usage of ideaTorrent please: http://forum.movingblocks.net/threads/ideatorrent-playground-set-up.363/ - Site: http://forum.movingblocks.net/ - Code: https://github.com/MovingBlocks/Terasology''
  3. [2012-06-09 15:32:46] =-= Topic for #terasology was set by [email protected] on Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:18:46 PM
  4. [2012-06-09 15:32:51] =-= Mode #terasology +o Cervator by ChanServ
  5. [2012-06-09 15:33:14] <Cervator> heyo - finally online after running errands
  6. [2012-06-09 15:33:37] <metouto_> hi Cervator
  7. [2012-06-09 15:34:19] <Cervator> more artsy stuff, fancy :-)
  8. [2012-06-09 15:38:38] <Cervator> metouto - hope you don't mind if i use a mix of your and Marc's badges :-)
  9. [2012-06-09 15:39:15] <Cervator> i want to put all of them somewhere for safe keeping so we can use them again for other stuff as ideas come up
  10. [2012-06-09 15:39:56] <dei_> cool idea and work mark
  11. [2012-06-09 15:40:08] <metouto_> MarcNottke has done some nice designs .... don't mind at all :o)
  12. [2012-06-09 15:40:19] <Cervator> Marc isn't here, but i hope he'll get on :D
  13. [2012-06-09 15:40:45] <dei_> ah, minimized the member-bar..
  14. [2012-06-09 15:41:06] <Cervator> dei_ - very nice cubey logo, i'd like to use that - when you put the text in the middle the diagonal bar made it look bad?
  15. [2012-06-09 15:41:23] <dei_> who said he sees a skull in my gelatinous cube..
  16. [2012-06-09 15:41:26] <dei_> ?
  17. [2012-06-09 15:41:43] <Cervator> i wonder if there's a way to change the diagonal bar to something else if that'll let the text fit, it does get a little tall otherwise
  18. [2012-06-09 15:42:04] <Cervator> metouto and me, there's a very faint outline in the top of the "head" :D
  19. [2012-06-09 15:42:24] <dei_> ah, that are only shadows or reflections of the cube
  20. [2012-06-09 15:42:35] <Cervator> two dark patches for eyes, a whitish round area forehead and a dark line or two :-)
  21. [2012-06-09 15:42:42] <dei_> so are the 'face' and the two tie-like things
  22. [2012-06-09 15:42:52] <Cervator> oh that's what made it? cool
  23. [2012-06-09 15:42:54] <dei_> just saw them when rendering
  24. [2012-06-09 15:43:13] <dei_> and thought i don't remove them
  25. [2012-06-09 15:43:31] <dei_> the creature is made of some mirror-material
  26. [2012-06-09 15:43:45] <Cervator> beyond my skill for sure :-)
  27. [2012-06-09 15:44:07] <Cervator> oh, btw, you should be a full admin now for Xenforo
  28. [2012-06-09 15:45:03] <dei_> ok
  29. [2012-06-09 15:45:08] <dei_> thx
  30. [2012-06-09 15:45:16] <Cervator> np
  31. [2012-06-09 15:45:27] <Cervator> i'm thinking about committing some of the site stuff to TeraMisc
  32. [2012-06-09 15:45:42] <dei_> ok, i have the admin-link now and am able to login
  33. [2012-06-09 15:45:51] <Cervator> Xenforo has nice "restore default" options, but some of our customizations might be good to keep somewhere :-)
  34. [2012-06-09 15:46:19] <dei_> but I'm not permitted to open any menu-point
  35. [2012-06-09 15:46:25] <Cervator> huh
  36. [2012-06-09 15:46:29] <Cervator> error?
  37. [2012-06-09 15:46:30] <dei_> even don't see the menu points in home on the left side
  38. [2012-06-09 15:46:48] <dei_> only the statistics
  39. [2012-06-09 15:47:07] <dei_> and when I click on them I get "You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action."
  40. [2012-06-09 15:47:21] <Cervator> hmm
  41. [2012-06-09 15:47:33] <dei_> seems to some group-problems to me
  42. [2012-06-09 15:47:38] <Cervator> begla - you around?
  43. [2012-06-09 15:47:55] -->| RoyAwesome ([email protected]) has joined #terasology
  44. [2012-06-09 15:48:30] <Cervator> added you to a bunch more groups - any chance?
  45. [2012-06-09 15:48:32] <Cervator> change*
  46. [2012-06-09 15:48:41] <Cervator> it does seem like groups only affect non-admin panel tho
  47. [2012-06-09 15:49:53] <dei_> ok
  48. [2012-06-09 15:50:31] <dei_> nope still the same thing...
  49. [2012-06-09 15:50:35] <Cervator> boo
  50. [2012-06-09 15:50:57] <dei_> but the moderation queue and reported items are ok
  51. [2012-06-09 15:51:03] <dei_> I like them
  52. [2012-06-09 15:51:27] <Cervator> might need to get begla to look at it, he's online so probably just afk and will pop up again at some point :-)
  53. [2012-06-09 15:51:41] <dei_> ok
  54. [2012-06-09 15:51:47] <dei_> I'm in no hurry
  55. [2012-06-09 15:51:59] <dei_> didn't really started my idea project anyway
  56. [2012-06-09 15:52:12] <Cervator> yeah no problem there, we have time :-)
  57. [2012-06-09 15:52:37] <dei_> hope to be able to release an alpha till tomorrow
  58. [2012-06-09 15:52:55] <dei_> doesn't look that complicated
  59. [2012-06-09 15:54:49] <Cervator> cool
  60. [2012-06-09 15:55:24] <dei_> need to have some advice from all who can attend now
  61. [2012-06-09 15:55:33] <dei_> before I start in the wrong direction
  62. [2012-06-09 15:56:12] <Cervator> right, and there the Xenforo admin options might also yield some inspiration
  63. [2012-06-09 15:56:27] <Cervator> hoping woodspeople will make it on - will give it a little while longer :-)
  64. [2012-06-09 15:57:17] * Cervator tweaks with badges
  65. [2012-06-09 15:59:11] <dei_> \me is proud of his new designer badge bellow his avatar
  66. [2012-06-09 15:59:20] * dei_ test something
  67. [2012-06-09 15:59:44] <dei_> ok meant that:
  68. [2012-06-09 15:59:46] * dei_ is proud of his new designer badge bellow his avatar
  69. [2012-06-09 16:00:03] <Cervator> more stuff just happened :-)
  70. [2012-06-09 16:00:20] <Cervator> tho we might want to make contributor only show if there's no more exact team badge there
  71. [2012-06-09 16:00:56] -->| woodspeople (4a2f385b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.47.56.91) has joined #terasology
  72. [2012-06-09 16:01:12] <Cervator> hey woodspeople, right on time :-)
  73. [2012-06-09 16:01:19] <woodspeople> yep
  74. [2012-06-09 16:01:29] <woodspeople> we just put the potion help in the wiki
  75. [2012-06-09 16:01:31] <Cervator> playing with badges :-)
  76. [2012-06-09 16:01:36] <Cervator> cool, thanks :D
  77. [2012-06-09 16:01:37] <woodspeople> will finish the rest soon
  78. [2012-06-09 16:01:48] <woodspeople> anybody else here?
  79. [2012-06-09 16:01:59] <Cervator> dei_ and metouto are active
  80. [2012-06-09 16:02:04] -->| immortius ([email protected]) has joined #terasology
  81. [2012-06-09 16:02:05] <woodspeople> hi metouto
  82. [2012-06-09 16:02:06] <Cervator> begla is online, waiting for him to wake up
  83. [2012-06-09 16:02:11] <metouto_> hi
  84. [2012-06-09 16:02:12] <Cervator> there's immortius :-)
  85. [2012-06-09 16:02:24] <Cervator> glasz and zproc are online - ping
  86. [2012-06-09 16:02:36] <zproc> hello
  87. [2012-06-09 16:02:41] <Cervator> Overdhose around?
  88. [2012-06-09 16:02:47] <Overdhose> aye
  89. [2012-06-09 16:03:20] <Cervator> cool, lots of people
  90. [2012-06-09 16:03:59] <Cervator> will give it a few more minutes and ping some more artists via forum :D
  91. [2012-06-09 16:06:01] <Cervator> oops, wrong art badge
  92. [2012-06-09 16:07:02] <Cervator> assorted badges now flying around over at http://forum.movingblocks.net/threads/art-request-mascot-logo-badges.318
  93. [2012-06-09 16:07:35] -->| SuperSnarik (62e648a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.230.72.166) has joined #terasology
  94. [2012-06-09 16:07:53] <Cervator> will take a little while to catch everybody, right now i'm just applying a few to test
  95. [2012-06-09 16:07:53] |<-- SuperSnarik has left freenode (Client Quit)
  96. [2012-06-09 16:08:05] <Cervator> SuperSnark is Marc, IIRC
  97. [2012-06-09 16:08:12] <Cervator> so he's probably trying to get on
  98. [2012-06-09 16:08:19] -->| SuperSnark (62e648a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.230.72.166) has joined #terasology
  99. [2012-06-09 16:08:25] <SuperSnark> There we go!
  100. [2012-06-09 16:08:28] <SuperSnark> Hey everyone
  101. [2012-06-09 16:08:36] <Cervator> now spelled right, even :D
  102. [2012-06-09 16:08:37] <Overdhose> Hi dr Nick :P
  103. [2012-06-09 16:08:38] <Cervator> hey Marc
  104. [2012-06-09 16:08:41] <SuperSnark> lol yes
  105. [2012-06-09 16:09:14] <SuperSnark> anyone like my stinkin badges?
  106. [2012-06-09 16:09:23] <Cervator> look at http://forum.movingblocks.net/threads/art-request-mascot-logo-badges.318 ;-)
  107. [2012-06-09 16:09:30] <Overdhose> now Cerv will have to start with : good news everyone.... ^^
  108. [2012-06-09 16:09:40] <Cervator> i love that, anyway
  109. [2012-06-09 16:09:40] <metouto_> yes ,,,,very good
  110. [2012-06-09 16:09:49] <Cervator> so good news everybody! we can have a meeting :D
  111. [2012-06-09 16:10:35] <dei_> tired of work? --> have a meeting!
  112. [2012-06-09 16:10:38] <dei_> ;-)
  113. [2012-06-09 16:10:48] <Cervator> ... also, how have i racked up 20 pages of convos in the forum already
  114. [2012-06-09 16:10:57] <SuperSnark> haha dei
  115. [2012-06-09 16:11:06] <Cervator> that's like 400 PMs, wee :D
  116. [2012-06-09 16:11:22] <woodspeople> cerv you are the wall-o-text master
  117. [2012-06-09 16:11:25] <SuperSnark> lots of blahblahblah! hooray
  118. [2012-06-09 16:11:25] <Cervator> yeah next you know it we'll register a corporation and get some physical cubicles somewhere :D
  119. [2012-06-09 16:11:57] <Overdhose> can I has one in the basement next to the toilets as usual? :P
  120. [2012-06-09 16:12:06] <SuperSnark> can they be gelatinous
  121. [2012-06-09 16:12:09] <Cervator> so apparently i've sent a PM for every second post i've made... not sure what story that tells
  122. [2012-06-09 16:12:28] <Cervator> that'd be a great April Fool's joke - the team is moving into Gelatinous Cubicles
  123. [2012-06-09 16:12:30] <woodspeople> conspiratorial
  124. [2012-06-09 16:12:53] <SuperSnark> that you need a new keybaord because you're burning holes in your old one
  125. [2012-06-09 16:12:55] <Cervator> true - wicked wicked PMs trying to get people online and stuff :D
  126. [2012-06-09 16:12:58] <dei_> accidentially I my employer could sue me I'm using his logo
  127. [2012-06-09 16:12:59] <immortius> procedurally generated inifinite office space
  128. [2012-06-09 16:13:03] <dei_> (they have a cube too)
  129. [2012-06-09 16:13:06] <dei_> ;-)
  130. [2012-06-09 16:13:06] <Cervator> also true
  131. [2012-06-09 16:13:09] <Cervator> hah :D
  132. [2012-06-09 16:13:31] <SuperSnark> lol immortius ...
  133. [2012-06-09 16:13:38] <SuperSnark> i can see it, an infinity pit of cubicles
  134. [2012-06-09 16:13:39] <Cervator> sounds like a mod
  135. [2012-06-09 16:13:45] <Overdhose> here at terasology, every day starts by a quest to find your procedurally relocated cubicle
  136. [2012-06-09 16:13:51] <dei_> immortius: that would be great
  137. [2012-06-09 16:13:53] <SuperSnark> i think that's what Purgatory must look like
  138. [2012-06-09 16:15:20] <Cervator> okay, i've probably increased my PM count enough on account of this little meeting now :-)
  139. [2012-06-09 16:15:38] <Overdhose> allright nice meeting thanks all laters.
  140. [2012-06-09 16:15:47] <Cervator> so! :D
  141. [2012-06-09 16:15:48] <Cervator> http://forum.movingblocks.net/threads/jun-9-2012-dev-meeting-site-blocks-art-irc.362/
  142. [2012-06-09 16:15:57] <Cervator> for those who haven't read it to skim the topics covered
  143. [2012-06-09 16:16:06] |<-- glasz has left freenode (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  144. [2012-06-09 16:16:34] <Cervator> first two are on the site - as you all know we've got Xenforo up, thanks to AlbireoX's license - thank you again Alb :D
  145. [2012-06-09 16:16:48] <woodspeople> agree thanks
  146. [2012-06-09 16:16:50] <Cervator> (i don't know if "Alb" works, but hey!)
  147. [2012-06-09 16:17:00] -->| glasz ([email protected]) has joined #terasology
  148. [2012-06-09 16:17:06] <glasz> hi
  149. [2012-06-09 16:17:09] <Cervator> wb glasz :-)
  150. [2012-06-09 16:17:11] <Overdhose> wb
  151. [2012-06-09 16:17:31] <Cervator> dei_ here has volunteered to do some more site work so i've made him an admin
  152. [2012-06-09 16:17:39] <glasz> i'm a little late
  153. [2012-06-09 16:17:46] <Cervator> no worries
  154. [2012-06-09 16:18:07] <Cervator> or i've tried to, begla might still need to ritually dust his user account with dehydrated gelcube dust to make it stick
  155. [2012-06-09 16:19:01] <woodspeople> the popup explanations on the forums still need a little work to avoid time wasted redirecting people
  156. [2012-06-09 16:19:27] <Cervator> there's a bit more work left on the site - mainly some artsy decoration, which is going places currently + some more tabs in the menu directing maybe to parts of the wiki and other sites + another bit of forum polish
  157. [2012-06-09 16:19:41] <Cervator> yep - happy to entertain more exact suggestions for descriptions :-)
  158. [2012-06-09 16:19:57] <woodspeople> promise to look at it
  159. [2012-06-09 16:19:59] <Cervator> the tabs will happen as soon as we can get the "Nodes as Tabs" addon working, so not much to worry about there
  160. [2012-06-09 16:20:32] <Cervator> decorations aren't in a rush so long as i've got some badges to tag people with, as it turns out to be a little tricky to get an overview of who is in what groups
  161. [2012-06-09 16:21:01] <SuperSnark> I can crank out a few more this afternoon
  162. [2012-06-09 16:21:10] <SuperSnark> if we like the style i was going with
  163. [2012-06-09 16:21:15] <Cervator> main thing is the forum organization and the potential of using something "more" - ideaTorrent was brought up as potential and there's a test site at http://ideas.goetz.sg/
  164. [2012-06-09 16:21:28] <Cervator> i like it - individual letters per block seems very distinct :-)
  165. [2012-06-09 16:21:44] <woodspeople> we like the block badge style (with no offense to metouto!)
  166. [2012-06-09 16:21:52] <SuperSnark> I was thinking Green for the world guys
  167. [2012-06-09 16:21:54] <Cervator> think "Architecture" or "Contributor" will fit easily? dunno if shortened to "Arch" and "Contrib" would be worth it
  168. [2012-06-09 16:22:01] <metouto_> none taken
  169. [2012-06-09 16:22:01] <SuperSnark> with a little guy who has eaten a globe
  170. [2012-06-09 16:22:07] <Cervator> yum
  171. [2012-06-09 16:22:20] <SuperSnark> Arch maybe red
  172. [2012-06-09 16:22:47] <Cervator> immortius - what's your favorite color? :D
  173. [2012-06-09 16:22:55] <SuperSnark> lol yeah, pick a color
  174. [2012-06-09 16:23:00] <Cervator> you've been badged with that thing ;-)
  175. [2012-06-09 16:23:05] <woodspeople> for ideas have you used google docs?
  176. [2012-06-09 16:23:10] <Overdhose> I bet it's pink :P
  177. [2012-06-09 16:23:18] <SuperSnark> i think purple
  178. [2012-06-09 16:23:32] <SuperSnark> for royalty
  179. [2012-06-09 16:23:45] <Cervator> dunno about Google docs yet - any opinions on the idea of using an incubator forum? http://forum.movingblocks.net/threads/incubator-guidelines-read-first.367/
  180. [2012-06-09 16:23:57] <woodspeople> like the incubator name, that's great
  181. [2012-06-09 16:24:06] <Cervator> which could go with Dei's customization and the GitHub-issue based "database" of ideas we could sort and maybe vote on
  182. [2012-06-09 16:24:08] <SuperSnark> what is that?
  183. [2012-06-09 16:24:14] <woodspeople> issue is how to handle and sort lots of things
  184. [2012-06-09 16:24:26] <Cervator> in short: a single forum for "concrete features" to implement or design off
  185. [2012-06-09 16:24:28] <woodspeople> how do you sort ideas in github? looked, could not see it
  186. [2012-06-09 16:24:46] <Cervator> Dei's plan is to make something that builds off the issues and displays them elsewhere
  187. [2012-06-09 16:24:48] <Cervator> IIRC
  188. [2012-06-09 16:24:57] <woodspeople> incubator is concrete? i would have thought before concrete
  189. [2012-06-09 16:25:01] <SuperSnark> oh ok
  190. [2012-06-09 16:25:15] <Cervator> so maybe we can post a little magic code snippet in the top of a thread that'll auto-generate something nice based off idea issues :-)
  191. [2012-06-09 16:25:25] <Cervator> well, concrete is probably a bad word :-)
  192. [2012-06-09 16:25:35] <Cervator> thinking...
  193. [2012-06-09 16:25:40] <woodspeople> incubator is generally for early days
  194. [2012-06-09 16:25:47] <Overdhose> please wait...
  195. [2012-06-09 16:26:15] <Cervator> yeah, i'm thinking more "defined" as in scoped or limited to one concept
  196. [2012-06-09 16:26:21] <woodspeople> ok
  197. [2012-06-09 16:26:31] <Cervator> so "Creatures" is one very high level concept, but it is "one" specific concept
  198. [2012-06-09 16:26:38] <woodspeople> i'm thinking before that, in the dozens of ideas floating around stage
  199. [2012-06-09 16:26:43] <Cervator> that would probably always stay in "Design" mode as you'll never finish "all creatures"
  200. [2012-06-09 16:26:46] <dei_> (I'm building it here: http://andre.goetz.sg/ideaTorrent.movingblocks.net/gitvote/idealist.php)
  201. [2012-06-09 16:26:53] <dei_> for those interested of the state
  202. [2012-06-09 16:26:59] <woodspeople> at early stages of design you want lots of little things clumping, not big things with details
  203. [2012-06-09 16:26:59] <dei_> (doesn't work yet)
  204. [2012-06-09 16:27:04] <Cervator> thanks dei_
  205. [2012-06-09 16:27:24] <Cervator> yeah - that's dei's thing with organizing "one liners" in some sense
  206. [2012-06-09 16:27:45] <Cervator> then possibly grouping them within an incubator thread
  207. [2012-06-09 16:27:55] <woodspeople> looked: those seem like tasks
  208. [2012-06-09 16:27:57] <Cervator> so with your creature "questions" thing for instance :-)
  209. [2012-06-09 16:29:01] <Cervator> 1) "Creature Design" thread in Incubator, links to all of the questions -> one category of questions we want to deal with gets its own incubator thread for more detailed design work, some answers, maybe even implementation
  210. [2012-06-09 16:29:17] <woodspeople> i had two thoughts about the questions. 1) expand them past minions into all NPCs
  211. [2012-06-09 16:29:20] <Cervator> ... there is no 2) i wrote that all in one sentence instead, messier...
  212. [2012-06-09 16:29:23] <Cervator> yep
  213. [2012-06-09 16:29:46] <woodspeople> 1) either clump them into clusters or find place to move them around better
  214. [2012-06-09 16:29:48] <Cervator> i see creatures/npcs as a design concept separate from Overdhose's miinions - which is an example of a sub-concept from there or what not :-)
  215. [2012-06-09 16:29:58] <woodspeople> that 1) was meant to be a 2)
  216. [2012-06-09 16:30:07] <woodspeople> confusing, hold on while i wait
  217. [2012-06-09 16:30:10] <woodspeople> read
  218. [2012-06-09 16:30:16] <woodspeople> no sleep
  219. [2012-06-09 16:30:25] <SuperSnark> =)
  220. [2012-06-09 16:30:26] <Cervator> s'ok :D
  221. [2012-06-09 16:30:47] <woodspeople> let me try again
  222. [2012-06-09 16:31:07] <woodspeople> for early design you need to move lots of little things around to see how they clump together
  223. [2012-06-09 16:31:15] <woodspeople> in a forum that is hard to do because you need clumpability
  224. [2012-06-09 16:31:26] <woodspeople> forums are great for tasks and clumps
  225. [2012-06-09 16:31:38] <woodspeople> i often use spreadsheets for clumping
  226. [2012-06-09 16:31:39] <Cervator> the details aren't super important - main point being Incubator is at one end for working concepts from design to implementation one "feature" at a time + the idea database to group and vote small things on the other end
  227. [2012-06-09 16:31:46] <Cervator> (brb, wifey can't reach something)
  228. [2012-06-09 16:31:54] <woodspeople> in google docs you could do a pre-forum clumping in a shared spreadsheet
  229. [2012-06-09 16:32:19] <woodspeople> or something
  230. [2012-06-09 16:32:43] <dei_> thought of it too already but with a shared sketchboard
  231. [2012-06-09 16:32:52] <woodspeople> my thought was, i could do the clumping outside the forums in a spreadsheet myself (ourselves) and then post things in idea database or forums
  232. [2012-06-09 16:32:53] <dei_> (there are some free services around)
  233. [2012-06-09 16:33:03] <woodspeople> but really it is better if clumping is done in collab
  234. [2012-06-09 16:33:20] <woodspeople> sketchboard would be good,
  235. [2012-06-09 16:33:33] <woodspeople> have used spreadsheets in google docs in collab group, that works too
  236. [2012-06-09 16:33:58] <woodspeople> incubator forum is good for clumped items
  237. [2012-06-09 16:34:11] <woodspeople> am i making sense?
  238. [2012-06-09 16:34:15] <SuperSnark> clumping ... teehee
  239. [2012-06-09 16:34:21] <woodspeople> clustering
  240. [2012-06-09 16:34:23] <woodspeople> should have said
  241. [2012-06-09 16:34:29] <Cervator> back
  242. [2012-06-09 16:34:42] <Cervator> and yes, makes sense, incubator is post-clustering :-)
  243. [2012-06-09 16:34:59] <Cervator> loose scattered ideas --> Clumping --> Incubator --> Cheese
  244. [2012-06-09 16:35:08] <woodspeople> my original idea was, everybody write 20 questions, then we merge them
  245. [2012-06-09 16:35:09] <SuperSnark> lol
  246. [2012-06-09 16:35:19] <woodspeople> then we cluster them, then they become issues
  247. [2012-06-09 16:35:19] <SuperSnark> i wondered how it was made!
  248. [2012-06-09 16:35:21] <woodspeople> or ideas or something
  249. [2012-06-09 16:35:28] <woodspeople> exactly, cheese
  250. [2012-06-09 16:35:32] <Cervator> yeah
  251. [2012-06-09 16:35:52] <woodspeople> so we need something for the clustering/clumping stage which is easy to use
  252. [2012-06-09 16:35:54] <Cervator> i'm not saying we do that in the Incubator forum, but i think we might be able to do :magic: and have any relevant ideas like that auto-display :-)
  253. [2012-06-09 16:35:55] <Cervator> yep
  254. [2012-06-09 16:36:09] <Cervator> i've heard of the mindmap software etc too - there are options and it'll take some time to look through
  255. [2012-06-09 16:36:24] <Cervator> but it sounds like we're in a good place with that overall design direction - sound reasonable?
  256. [2012-06-09 16:36:26] <woodspeople> mindmap is great for planning because it helps you organize tasks concepts ideas
  257. [2012-06-09 16:36:53] <woodspeople> my plan right now is (a) beg people for more questions (b) cluster the questions myself (c) put the clusters in the incubator
  258. [2012-06-09 16:37:01] <woodspeople> do you want me/us to do that?
  259. [2012-06-09 16:37:09] <woodspeople> say no if not
  260. [2012-06-09 16:37:17] <Cervator> also, does it make sense to temporarily merge World + Design + Modding into Incubator? they don't really do much solo right now
  261. [2012-06-09 16:37:21] <Cervator> that sounds good :-)
  262. [2012-06-09 16:37:33] <woodspeople> how are people using them?
  263. [2012-06-09 16:37:37] <Cervator> and maybe Dei can come up with some sort of system
  264. [2012-06-09 16:37:42] <Cervator> pretty much not at all ;-)
  265. [2012-06-09 16:37:50] <Cervator> and it is hard to remember what would go where
  266. [2012-06-09 16:37:54] <woodspeople> incubator is orthogonal, what goes with it?
  267. [2012-06-09 16:38:08] <woodspeople> incubator - processor?
  268. [2012-06-09 16:38:15] <Cervator> Dev Portal, Art, Contrib Intro would be the other forums under Development
  269. [2012-06-09 16:38:38] <woodspeople> you seem to be aligning the fora by process
  270. [2012-06-09 16:38:49] <woodspeople> so dev portal is coming in, intros also, then incub
  271. [2012-06-09 16:38:53] <woodspeople> what comes after incub?
  272. [2012-06-09 16:39:08] <Cervator> that's it, for now - can go all the way to implementation there
  273. [2012-06-09 16:39:09] <woodspeople> architecture? implementation? maintenance?
  274. [2012-06-09 16:39:21] <Overdhose> pregnancy?
  275. [2012-06-09 16:39:23] <woodspeople> confusing to have two dimensions overlaid
  276. [2012-06-09 16:39:38] <dei_> implementation should be in the issue-tracker I think
  277. [2012-06-09 16:39:40] <Cervator> later on there might be enough to justify separate topic-specific post-incubation forums, but i doubt we have the thread count for that yet :-)
  278. [2012-06-09 16:39:43] <Cervator> that too, yeah
  279. [2012-06-09 16:39:55] <Cervator> incubator thread -> lists implementation issues created
  280. [2012-06-09 16:39:56] <dei_> then maintanance (support ...) again in the forum
  281. [2012-06-09 16:40:40] <dei_> the question is if someone wants to separate the existing threads afterwards
  282. [2012-06-09 16:40:51] <dei_> or should we already create these sub-forums
  283. [2012-06-09 16:41:05] <woodspeople> what is the diff between design and incubator?
  284. [2012-06-09 16:41:13] <dei_> so that the users make the work for us moderators
  285. [2012-06-09 16:41:38] <woodspeople> the more logical the forum structure the less time wasted on redirection
  286. [2012-06-09 16:41:43] <Cervator> design becomes incubator
  287. [2012-06-09 16:41:43] <woodspeople> and the more people wil contribute
  288. [2012-06-09 16:41:46] <woodspeople> ok
  289. [2012-06-09 16:42:04] <Cervator> alright - we can get more detailed on that later, but should move on for now while we have everybody around :-)
  290. [2012-06-09 16:42:20] <woodspeople> yep willing to help out of meeting
  291. [2012-06-09 16:42:34] <Cervator> next up is blocks - put that before art because some stuff on blocks impacts art style
  292. [2012-06-09 16:43:10] <Cervator> the idea of being able to create an object in-world by simply putting blocks together and then shrinking it, for instance
  293. [2012-06-09 16:43:38] <Cervator> which at first i was just thinking was going to be for simply stuff like furniture, etc - but you really could turn a giant statue into a normal sized creature
  294. [2012-06-09 16:43:51] <Cervator> ending up with something similar to A'nW's dwarf
  295. [2012-06-09 16:44:13] * Cervator fiddles through browser tabs for linkies
  296. [2012-06-09 16:44:36] <Overdhose> something similar to the editor in in the competitions mythruna then
  297. [2012-06-09 16:45:07] <Cervator> i know Mythruna did a block shrinker, yeah, has it gone behind that?
  298. [2012-06-09 16:45:30] <Overdhose> mythruna has a built in editor
  299. [2012-06-09 16:45:41] <Overdhose> letting you make like a fountain or chair
  300. [2012-06-09 16:45:53] <Overdhose> and then size it and place it in the world
  301. [2012-06-09 16:46:01] <SuperSnark> Oh that's neat
  302. [2012-06-09 16:46:03] <Cervator> cool
  303. [2012-06-09 16:46:11] <SuperSnark> So multi sizes?
  304. [2012-06-09 16:46:19] <Overdhose> well
  305. [2012-06-09 16:46:19] <Cervator> yeah that's beyond what i saw in there quite a while back :-)
  306. [2012-06-09 16:46:23] <SuperSnark> Like, the standard size for buildings, for mining etc?
  307. [2012-06-09 16:46:30] <Cervator> back then it was just place a few cubes, get smaller cube
  308. [2012-06-09 16:46:36] <SuperSnark> slightly smaller to build indoor objects?
  309. [2012-06-09 16:46:41] <Overdhose> the editor is a cube of 40X40 little blocks or something to edit in
  310. [2012-06-09 16:47:01] <Overdhose> and then you can size the result
  311. [2012-06-09 16:47:01] <Cervator> CustomBlocks for us was meant to be a shrunk version of a larger block
  312. [2012-06-09 16:47:05] <SuperSnark> multi size would be so cool
  313. [2012-06-09 16:47:11] <Cervator> 2x2x2, 4x4x4,8x8x8, etc
  314. [2012-06-09 16:47:20] <woodspeople> (looking at mythruna)
  315. [2012-06-09 16:47:23] <SuperSnark> like having different sized Legos to work with
  316. [2012-06-09 16:47:29] <Cervator> yeah
  317. [2012-06-09 16:47:48] <Cervator> the trick is how well it works with the world - immortius, what do you think?
  318. [2012-06-09 16:48:26] <Overdhose> well mythruna has it's own distonct style
  319. [2012-06-09 16:48:37] <dei_> what I thought of is to make it possible to vary the shrinking factor: for prebuilt houses
  320. [2012-06-09 16:48:40] <Overdhose> and it works well for it because well it's designed for it
  321. [2012-06-09 16:48:45] <Cervator> here's A'nW's dwarf: http://forum.movingblocks.net/attachments/basicdwarfsheet-png.206/
  322. [2012-06-09 16:48:48] <dei_> (using them later in world-generation)
  323. [2012-06-09 16:48:49] <immortius> it is certainly doable, perhaps with some limitations on what blocks can be included
  324. [2012-06-09 16:49:07] <Overdhose> he was even working on physics for the resulting objects
  325. [2012-06-09 16:49:30] <dei_> would need bones and joints then...
  326. [2012-06-09 16:49:30] <Cervator> i theory i suspect you could build a creature like that out of normal size blocks, then create an actual model object out of it usable as a creature :-)
  327. [2012-06-09 16:50:01] <Overdhose> I have toyed with that idea before myslef
  328. [2012-06-09 16:50:35] <dei_> what do you think of a variable shrinking-factor
  329. [2012-06-09 16:50:36] <Overdhose> but pracrical implementation well... working with a skeletonal design is gonna complicate things quite a lot and fast
  330. [2012-06-09 16:50:38] <dei_> ?
  331. [2012-06-09 16:50:41] <glasz> how many of these custom objects can we have in game?
  332. [2012-06-09 16:51:11] <immortius> Blocks, limited. Non-blocks, not so much.
  333. [2012-06-09 16:51:42] <Cervator> here's an alternative critter sheet by eleazzaar, notable perhaps because we might _not_ be able to easily go with that if we do a very block-centric creation setup: http://forum.movingblocks.net/attachments/critters-jpg.158/
  334. [2012-06-09 16:52:11] <Cervator> plain models with reasonable poly count we can support tons of
  335. [2012-06-09 16:52:34] <Cervator> blocks will get 64k IDs but there might be a lot of extra IDs taken up by permutations of blocks
  336. [2012-06-09 16:53:17] <Cervator> incidentally, for completion, glasz's Jake the Dwarf also is of a nice and useful blocky nature, tho the disconnected joints could be tricky to build in-world :-)
  337. [2012-06-09 16:53:50] <Cervator> anyway!
  338. [2012-06-09 16:53:53] <Cervator> important factor
  339. [2012-06-09 16:54:05] <Cervator> how small do we make the *standard* block
  340. [2012-06-09 16:54:13] <Overdhose> heh
  341. [2012-06-09 16:54:24] <dei_> you mean the inworld-block
  342. [2012-06-09 16:54:26] <SuperSnark> that's a good segue into overall artistic vision too
  343. [2012-06-09 16:54:28] <dei_> ?
  344. [2012-06-09 16:54:30] <Overdhose> you really fell in love with cubeworld huch?
  345. [2012-06-09 16:54:35] <Cervator> right now more or less we're following the 1 cubic meter in spirit
  346. [2012-06-09 16:54:47] <Cervator> oh i've always liked Cubeworld and can't wait to eventually play it :-)
  347. [2012-06-09 16:54:48] <SuperSnark> how blocky do we get
  348. [2012-06-09 16:54:50] <dei_> not that for shrinked models?
  349. [2012-06-09 16:55:23] <Cervator> but the block scale came up on our side a while ago over simpler issues, primarily "can you make the blocks smaller so you don't need to jump to cross a 1-block height difference?"
  350. [2012-06-09 16:55:34] <Cervator> yeah not talking shrunk blocks/models
  351. [2012-06-09 16:55:56] <SuperSnark> in Lego terms, is everything built of blocks, or do you have pre-molded models that interact in a blocky world
  352. [2012-06-09 16:55:58] <Cervator> smaller native blocks = higher potential for detail
  353. [2012-06-09 16:56:13] <woodspeople> and less annoying jumping
  354. [2012-06-09 16:56:34] <Cervator> small native blocks also = larger headache for immortius, begla, and anybody else trying to keep the game from destroying lower end computers :-)
  355. [2012-06-09 16:56:55] <Cervator> SuperSnark: mostly everything is normal blocks, possibly everything in "nature" excepting creature models
  356. [2012-06-09 16:56:56] <glasz> less far distance i suppose
  357. [2012-06-09 16:57:02] <Cervator> and maybe some plants
  358. [2012-06-09 16:57:15] <Cervator> that too, view distance can help
  359. [2012-06-09 16:57:17] <woodspeople> what about the thing of just making the player taller?
  360. [2012-06-09 16:57:21] <immortius> the trade off is we'ld probably stick to 256 block limit, nix custom blocks, nix non-cubes
  361. [2012-06-09 16:57:22] <Cervator> vertical chunks can help
  362. [2012-06-09 16:57:27] <Cervator> yeah taller player is the same thing
  363. [2012-06-09 16:57:48] <begla> heya :)
  364. [2012-06-09 16:57:51] <immortius> I think anyhow
  365. [2012-06-09 16:57:52] <glasz> player taller -> far distance closer
  366. [2012-06-09 16:57:52] <Cervator> there he is :D
  367. [2012-06-09 16:57:58] <Overdhose> it's aliiiiiive :P
  368. [2012-06-09 16:58:09] <begla> Indeed it is
  369. [2012-06-09 16:58:15] <begla> At least it think so
  370. [2012-06-09 16:58:19] <begla> *I
  371. [2012-06-09 16:58:36] <begla> Reading about smaller blocks scared me a bit to be honest
  372. [2012-06-09 16:58:39] <Cervator> anyway, begla, immortius, any objections to going in the direction of non-max-height vertical chunks?
  373. [2012-06-09 16:58:50] <Overdhose> not surprising :P
  374. [2012-06-09 16:58:55] <woodspeople> silly question, but what if nothing changes except you don't have to jump to go up a block?
  375. [2012-06-09 16:58:56] <Cervator> (as an optimization technique, not necessarily to fit more blocks)
  376. [2012-06-09 16:59:08] <SuperSnark> I have to go make dinner for the family
  377. [2012-06-09 16:59:12] <SuperSnark> i'll be idling
  378. [2012-06-09 16:59:46] <begla> woodspeople could be tested and might be neat! Might come with some more tweaking regarding the collisions detection and stuff... Maybe even switching over to completely rely on Bullet in this regard
  379. [2012-06-09 16:59:47] <Cervator> yeah that could be a thing too - at one point it was brought up that you could auto-move up even two block high spots (think slightly larger player) by sort of "latching on" and just moving slowly
  380. [2012-06-09 16:59:58] <begla> This would reduce the problem into adjusting the player controller's step height
  381. [2012-06-09 17:00:03] <dei_> if you can jump one block its absolutely unrealistic
  382. [2012-06-09 17:00:12] <dei_> without shrinking the blocks
  383. [2012-06-09 17:00:21] <woodspeople> the whole thing is absolutely unrealistic!
  384. [2012-06-09 17:00:25] <Cervator> :D
  385. [2012-06-09 17:00:31] <woodspeople> whatever we say is real is real
  386. [2012-06-09 17:00:38] <glasz> dei y es but its a non realistic world
  387. [2012-06-09 17:01:10] <dei_> it would be as if you could jump up a 1 m furniture
  388. [2012-06-09 17:01:21] <dei_> walk
  389. [2012-06-09 17:01:24] <dei_> not jump sorry
  390. [2012-06-09 17:01:27] <Cervator> i do see the point of 1 block vs 2 block on "auto-move" - i liked the idea of making the player a little larger (read: same as slightly smaller blocks) allowing the step size to automatically move up up 1 block spots, then jump for 2 block spots, maybe "latching on" and slowing down a moment as you climb over
  391. [2012-06-09 17:01:31] <immortius> I was thinking it might be interesting to try to integrate the world structure directly into bullet, rather than doing the mesh generation->bullet bit.
  392. [2012-06-09 17:01:33] * Overdhose thinks woodspeople is also a member of megalomaniacs anonymous
  393. [2012-06-09 17:01:37] <immortius> because it is *slow*
  394. [2012-06-09 17:01:55] <begla> Yeah but JBullet is quite limited
  395. [2012-06-09 17:02:10] <Cervator> does it help to go straight to Bullet? jMonkeyEngine did that
  396. [2012-06-09 17:02:12] <begla> Any idea how far the new Bullet wrapper in JMonkey has proceeded
  397. [2012-06-09 17:02:15] <Cervator> bypassed jBullet entirely
  398. [2012-06-09 17:02:18] <Cervator> hah, jinx
  399. [2012-06-09 17:02:24] <Cervator> no, i haven't kept track :-)
  400. [2012-06-09 17:02:48] <woodspeople> people accept all manner of strange realities as long as they are consistent
  401. [2012-06-09 17:03:06] <begla> The latest version of jBullet is quite old too if I remember correctly. Might come in handy to have all the latest features of Bullet at hand
  402. [2012-06-09 17:03:24] <begla> I missed many neat functions back in the days :/
  403. [2012-06-09 17:03:26] <glasz> beside the command can be atojump, but the player animation can be a little jump
  404. [2012-06-09 17:03:51] <glasz> the command can be autojump*
  405. [2012-06-09 17:03:53] <Cervator> begla / immortius - you two are the most relevant to the technical limitations, do you think a slightly larger player in a world using multi-layered vertical chunks and maybe a Bullet trick for optimization is realistic?
  406. [2012-06-09 17:04:09] <Cervator> (think player = 3 blocks tall for the sake of arguing)
  407. [2012-06-09 17:04:20] <begla> Bullet won't help with any overall performance stuff regarding world rendering
  408. [2012-06-09 17:04:30] <begla> But currently we generated the chunk meshes for display...
  409. [2012-06-09 17:04:32] <Cervator> [17:01] immortius I was thinking it might be interesting to try to integrate the world structure directly into bullet, rather than doing the mesh generation->bullet bit. ?
  410. [2012-06-09 17:04:47] <begla> And concurrently derive a separate, compressed Bullet mesh for the physics calculations
  411. [2012-06-09 17:04:51] <Overdhose> isn't the amount of data from the blocks itself a problem?
  412. [2012-06-09 17:04:56] <Cervator> i dunno if there's optimization potential there, not 3d wizard :D
  413. [2012-06-09 17:04:58] <begla> But those are limited to a certain distance around the player to keep the memory overhad low
  414. [2012-06-09 17:05:04] <begla> *overhead
  415. [2012-06-09 17:05:09] <Cervator> yeah - 256 tall chunks are problematic due to the number of points
  416. [2012-06-09 17:05:32] <begla> So there is currently a lot of Physics mesh creation and disposal going on in the background
  417. [2012-06-09 17:06:09] <Cervator> shrink chunks to 32 high or whatever and don't load all 8 at once = optimization win + potential accidental "oh we can have worlds with infinite height now?" :-)
  418. [2012-06-09 17:06:17] <begla> I think the viewing distance at the moment is still too close imho
  419. [2012-06-09 17:06:25] <begla> I miss really FAR viewing distances
  420. [2012-06-09 17:06:28] <Cervator> definitely is when you get up high
  421. [2012-06-09 17:06:33] <Cervator> world becomes a tiny little napkin
  422. [2012-06-09 17:06:54] <begla> Making the player larger makes this even worse :)
  423. [2012-06-09 17:07:00] <immortius> every time you increase the max distance you reduce the max player count. :P
  424. [2012-06-09 17:07:12] <begla> :P
  425. [2012-06-09 17:07:15] <Cervator> maybe a "fog" effect in the distance world help with the aesthetics, but not the optimization... :-)
  426. [2012-06-09 17:07:34] <begla> Fog is difficult with the procedural Skysphere going on
  427. [2012-06-09 17:07:36] <Cervator> (not fancy fog but "hide our naughtly world edges" fog)
  428. [2012-06-09 17:07:42] <Cervator> naughty*
  429. [2012-06-09 17:08:27] <Cervator> so anyway, there's a lot of potential in smaller blocks relative to the player, but also a lot of danger.... :-)
  430. [2012-06-09 17:08:27] <immortius> the trickiness with vertical chunks is they complicate world generation (sunlight propagation) and potentially you end up with oddities like being on a tall mountain and not being able to see the ground I guess
  431. [2012-06-09 17:09:07] <Overdhose> yeah you will be standing in a void at some point
  432. [2012-06-09 17:09:17] <begla> And weirds structures in heaven casting/or not casting shadows on the ground
  433. [2012-06-09 17:09:17] <begla> :D
  434. [2012-06-09 17:09:19] <begla> *weird
  435. [2012-06-09 17:09:50] <woodspeople> i would vote for not changing block size but just making the player able to do things that make walking around a little easier
  436. [2012-06-09 17:09:50] <Cervator> i figured a potential trick would be "valleys of darkness" - sunlight only occurs in a band relative to the surface of the world, dramatically lower areas simply become darker if viewed from up top, even if they're theoretically in sunlight?
  437. [2012-06-09 17:10:11] <begla> Yes
  438. [2012-06-09 17:10:12] <woodspeople> idea: zoom-in mode, temporary improvement to view, expensive but infrequent?
  439. [2012-06-09 17:10:16] <begla> Some light consuming layer
  440. [2012-06-09 17:10:26] <Cervator> making the step size bigger like that would be the easiest option
  441. [2012-06-09 17:10:46] <Cervator> no clue on zooming
  442. [2012-06-09 17:11:13] <immortius> yeah, light might fall without attenuation for the first 128 blocks or so, then attenuate after that, then it won't be a consideration for lower blocks.
  443. [2012-06-09 17:11:14] <woodspeople> if the ability to see far or do big things depends on a tool it might not have to change basic infrastructure?
  444. [2012-06-09 17:11:37] <woodspeople> example: give up something to get something. see far = wire frame, or something
  445. [2012-06-09 17:11:37] <Cervator> so a camera trick might be available, in other words :-)
  446. [2012-06-09 17:11:56] <begla> I've got some basic ideas to increase the overall viewing distance
  447. [2012-06-09 17:12:05] <woodspeople> if you want to give an ability without changing the general requirements you make special requirements that are only intermittently available
  448. [2012-06-09 17:12:06] <begla> But most of the relate to some newer GPU features
  449. [2012-06-09 17:12:13] <begla> And changing the overall rendering drastically
  450. [2012-06-09 17:12:16] <Cervator> further complicating this - these decisions on blocks may impact the art style, which is next, and something we really need to get clarity on so we can unleash the artists :-)
  451. [2012-06-09 17:12:20] <begla> But what would be possible is...
  452. [2012-06-09 17:12:29] <begla> Rendering far away chunks using simple, scaled dots
  453. [2012-06-09 17:12:35] <begla> Or camera oriented billboards
  454. [2012-06-09 17:12:36] <Cervator> oh, ya, that came up
  455. [2012-06-09 17:13:26] <Cervator> like the details on incubator etc the exact nitty gritty of the tech behind this may be outside the discussion at hand.... :-)
  456. [2012-06-09 17:13:46] <Cervator> main decision: stay with current block size relative to player, or do we think we can push beyond that?
  457. [2012-06-09 17:13:48] <begla> Maybe even introduce some caching algorithm for those "far distance chunks" so a whole lot of the world could be loaded quite fast and displayed in a "lower" quality till the player reaches this place
  458. [2012-06-09 17:13:58] <begla> Okay :)
  459. [2012-06-09 17:14:14] <Cervator> yup, that'd be nice too, and the bit on making more efficient chunks - like that sparse chunk array thing :-)
  460. [2012-06-09 17:14:27] <immortius> still waiting on some metrics for that
  461. [2012-06-09 17:14:30] <Cervator> we have a lot of tools available and optimizations not yet applied
  462. [2012-06-09 17:14:48] <begla> I saw something > O(1) so I'm not quite in to that yet :)
  463. [2012-06-09 17:14:53] <Cervator> trying to remember - dei_ was the sparse chunk array yours?
  464. [2012-06-09 17:15:04] <begla> Never tried it though
  465. [2012-06-09 17:15:34] <Cervator> anyway :-)
  466. [2012-06-09 17:15:37] <dei_> yes was mine
  467. [2012-06-09 17:15:40] <woodspeople> like the far away dots idea, people might actually like the visual effect
  468. [2012-06-09 17:15:47] <dei_> would even be simpler when using vertical chunks
  469. [2012-06-09 17:16:24] <begla> Yep! Think it could look cool too
  470. [2012-06-09 17:16:33] <Overdhose> I don't think the direction matters
  471. [2012-06-09 17:16:38] <immortius> loading up chunks just to generate distant dot-mesh and then throw them away would work well I think
  472. [2012-06-09 17:16:45] <begla> Yep
  473. [2012-06-09 17:16:53] <Cervator> so what do we think? 3-block tall player within reach?
  474. [2012-06-09 17:16:57] <begla> And cash those meshes until something in the chunks changes
  475. [2012-06-09 17:17:24] <begla> "meshes"
  476. [2012-06-09 17:17:30] <immortius> and may be able to send those dot mesh or a similar summary information to remote players
  477. [2012-06-09 17:17:57] <Cervator> less 3d wizardry geeking out, more decisions :D
  478. [2012-06-09 17:18:05] <Overdhose> grin
  479. [2012-06-09 17:18:14] <Cervator> love the tech and i hope we can get there, how much will it help? :D
  480. [2012-06-09 17:18:29] <begla> Dots are actually quite doable
  481. [2012-06-09 17:18:30] <begla> And...
  482. [2012-06-09 17:18:48] <begla> We could go with the 2. or 3. viewing distance at the moment for the highest setting
  483. [2012-06-09 17:18:55] <begla> And render a Skyrim-like world beyond that
  484. [2012-06-09 17:18:58] <begla> ;)
  485. [2012-06-09 17:19:02] <begla> (with dots)
  486. [2012-06-09 17:19:09] <Cervator> so long as we can eventually ride dragons, ok ;-)
  487. [2012-06-09 17:19:15] <immortius> I need to get this world refactoring done in my branch, so you can review
  488. [2012-06-09 17:19:24] <Overdhose> kinky Cerv
  489. [2012-06-09 17:19:26] <begla> Me?
  490. [2012-06-09 17:19:34] <immortius> well, anyone
  491. [2012-06-09 17:19:35] <Cervator> sec, phone
  492. [2012-06-09 17:20:15] <begla> I actually look around through all the branches from time to time :) Good stuff going on
  493. [2012-06-09 17:20:27] <begla> Looks like a new game though
  494. [2012-06-09 17:20:29] <begla> :D
  495. [2012-06-09 17:20:38] <Cervator> progress is progress :-)
  496. [2012-06-09 17:20:47] <Cervator> so :D
  497. [2012-06-09 17:21:03] <Cervator> 3 block tall player? vertical chunks? infinite height potential? :-)
  498. [2012-06-09 17:21:32] <Overdhose> yeah really immortius or Begla you must voice a vote first
  499. [2012-06-09 17:21:45] <Overdhose> and we will most likely follow that
  500. [2012-06-09 17:21:50] <Cervator> architecture for architects :D
  501. [2012-06-09 17:21:57] <begla> hm
  502. [2012-06-09 17:21:59] <immortius> I guess what we're proposing is keep the current block size, add vertical chunks, ease player movement?
  503. [2012-06-09 17:22:06] <Cervator> that's one option, yeah
  504. [2012-06-09 17:22:27] <begla> Includes infinite height infinite depth? ;)
  505. [2012-06-09 17:22:40] <Cervator> but would the trade-offs be worth it for 3-block tall player for more natural elevation changes, slightly higher level of details (think tree trunks for a good example), etc
  506. [2012-06-09 17:23:03] <Cervator> i figure with enough lighting tricks and vertical blocks nothing prevents us from exploring the potential for infinite depth :-)
  507. [2012-06-09 17:23:10] <Cervator> er, vertical chunks
  508. [2012-06-09 17:23:15] <Cervator> non-vertical blocks would be silly
  509. [2012-06-09 17:23:29] <Cervator> time rectangles
  510. [2012-06-09 17:23:33] <woodspeople> if chunks are not vertical but blocky, wouldn't that mean things can proceed in all 3 dimensions?
  511. [2012-06-09 17:23:40] <woodspeople> cube chunks?
  512. [2012-06-09 17:23:50] <immortius> honestly we could just nix this whole sky/surface shenanigans
  513. [2012-06-09 17:23:53] <Cervator> yeah they're already cubes, but limited to a single height layer
  514. [2012-06-09 17:23:57] <immortius> and just be all underground, all the time
  515. [2012-06-09 17:24:05] <Cervator> like proper dwarves
  516. [2012-06-09 17:24:18] <Overdhose> or keepers :P
  517. [2012-06-09 17:24:18] <begla> In my opinion the open "Sky" introduces many many problems
  518. [2012-06-09 17:24:25] <Cervator> who like to avoid making decisions :D
  519. [2012-06-09 17:24:29] <Cervator> it does :-)
  520. [2012-06-09 17:24:38] <woodspeople> is a sky necessary?
  521. [2012-06-09 17:24:45] <immortius> but I guess problems keep things interesting
  522. [2012-06-09 17:25:09] <Cervator> is sunlight overdone? if lighting was simplified somehow would that ease the sky and related issues?
  523. [2012-06-09 17:25:18] <Overdhose> space?
  524. [2012-06-09 17:25:26] <glasz> depend what kind of ambience we want : dark underground or nice landscapes
  525. [2012-06-09 17:25:32] <woodspeople> lighted space?
  526. [2012-06-09 17:25:42] <woodspeople> sec, dog
  527. [2012-06-09 17:25:44] <begla> A problem I see being fixed with reducing the viewing distance while making the player even larger ;)
  528. [2012-06-09 17:26:00] <begla> One example: There can be many things in the sky-layer vertical chunks
  529. [2012-06-09 17:26:03] <Cervator> i suspect entirely removing the sky might be too drastic
  530. [2012-06-09 17:26:09] <begla> A mountain that has been cut into half for example
  531. [2012-06-09 17:26:39] <begla> Your standing far away from this chunks... And you're using a quite far viewing distance
  532. [2012-06-09 17:27:01] <begla> Too actually see the upper half of the mountain, you might have to render twice the amount of chunks from your current position
  533. [2012-06-09 17:27:06] <begla> *to
  534. [2012-06-09 17:27:06] <Cervator> possibly something the distant dot background might solve?
  535. [2012-06-09 17:27:30] <begla> Yeah, but that's something that has to be evaluated first. Might be, yep!
  536. [2012-06-09 17:27:40] <Cervator> so delay? :-)
  537. [2012-06-09 17:27:44] <begla> yep
  538. [2012-06-09 17:27:52] <Cervator> i'm okay with that
  539. [2012-06-09 17:28:10] <Cervator> alright, lets do some art stuff before all the artists flee :D
  540. [2012-06-09 17:28:43] <Overdhose> damn we're evil ^^
  541. [2012-06-09 17:28:43] <Cervator> i figure 2 vs 3 height player doesn't impact the art style choice _too_ much
  542. [2012-06-09 17:28:44] <begla> The dots might be a very nice solution... But like anything I've done with Terasology... Nothing has been working out as I imagined it would at first ;)
  543. [2012-06-09 17:29:33] <begla> Immortius, you're okay with the delay too?
  544. [2012-06-09 17:29:45] <glasz> i'm not sure the art choice is so dependant of the landscape appearance but i might be the minority :)
  545. [2012-06-09 17:29:47] <immortius> ya, that's fine
  546. [2012-06-09 17:29:58] <begla> Working on a dotty prototype would be something I would love to do in August
  547. [2012-06-09 17:30:02] <Cervator> glasz / dei_ / zproc / SuperSnark (in afk land) ... on artistic style, what do we _need_ to define? :-)
  548. [2012-06-09 17:30:48] <Cervator> are we talking "yes on textures vs colored voxels" level or "squares only, none of those crazy 'curves' the kids talk about", etc?
  549. [2012-06-09 17:30:49] <begla> I think the style of the landscape textures might be interesting
  550. [2012-06-09 17:30:54] <immortius> I'll do some prototyping around the physics as well at some point.
  551. [2012-06-09 17:31:00] <begla> Awesome
  552. [2012-06-09 17:31:16] <Cervator> we have three primary bits of concept art
  553. [2012-06-09 17:31:25] <begla> Maybe starting out with reevaluating jBullet might be a wise starting point
  554. [2012-06-09 17:31:39] <begla> Lot of nice stuff missing with non-convex meshes :/
  555. [2012-06-09 17:31:48] <begla> But... Another time
  556. [2012-06-09 17:32:14] <Cervator> glasz' Jake the dwarf (disconnected joint style), A'nW's DF-style dwarf (solid and blocky) and Ellazzaar's (can't spell) more curvey blanky texture thing that could do faces
  557. [2012-06-09 17:32:24] <Cervator> facial expressions as an option
  558. [2012-06-09 17:32:40] <Cervator> building creatures in the world using blocks as ingredients
  559. [2012-06-09 17:33:09] <Cervator> from past discussion - the style choice might be somewhat dictated by the world and the audience
  560. [2012-06-09 17:33:20] <SuperSnark> you can do block style bodies and still have maybe Zelda Wind Waker-esque expression faces kinda things
  561. [2012-06-09 17:33:23] <Cervator> audience perhaps a bad word vs "potential contributors"
  562. [2012-06-09 17:33:27] <zproc> sorry i haven't followed anything Terasology lately ::
  563. [2012-06-09 17:33:28] <glasz> in my opinion we need a working decision process, i would like also that we choose what creatures we re suppose to make, wich would make it easier to propose visuals
  564. [2012-06-09 17:33:28] <zproc> :/
  565. [2012-06-09 17:34:26] <Cervator> right, we've talked about the two factions, but never really what they'd be - other than maybe one being a steampunk-like dwarf something
  566. [2012-06-09 17:34:43] <Cervator> and both could be the same race - that leaves a lot of potential creatures just in the world
  567. [2012-06-09 17:35:09] <zproc> SuperSnark: Zeldaa Wind Waker esque expression? like texture changes of the face for the expressions? or something else?
  568. [2012-06-09 17:35:11] <Overdhose> steam punk dwarf versus Gungeon keepers anyone? :P
  569. [2012-06-09 17:35:22] <Overdhose> Dungeon*
  570. [2012-06-09 17:35:25] <immortius> I'm going to disappear for a bit, but one thought I had was that having related but distinct art styles for the factions (in gametypes with such a thing) may be nice - like cuboids vs angulons or something.
  571. [2012-06-09 17:35:33] <Cervator> for artwork contributions to be applicable we might need to cast a wide net re: fairly simple and doable art style that's easy to pick up
  572. [2012-06-09 17:35:38] <Cervator> angulons? heh :D
  573. [2012-06-09 17:35:47] <glasz> immortius : yep cool idea
  574. [2012-06-09 17:37:09] -->| dei_laptop (b252d4a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.82.212.169) has joined #terasology
  575. [2012-06-09 17:37:21] <SuperSnark> lol i like that immortius
  576. [2012-06-09 17:37:28] <Cervator> anyway, contributions and style - top level style that's fairly simple + options for sub-styles specific to some facet of the game, like a faction setup or a creature type (elementals with glasz's disconnected look as an example)
  577. [2012-06-09 17:37:29] <SuperSnark> blocky for the steampunkers
  578. [2012-06-09 17:37:35] <Overdhose> what's an angulon exactly?
  579. [2012-06-09 17:37:38] <glasz> and the simpler the faster they're made, more creatures in the world
  580. [2012-06-09 17:37:40] <SuperSnark> angly for the druid types
  581. [2012-06-09 17:37:48] <woodspeople> my position is: potential for TS to become known as the most modding friendly system; the easier entry points on all things (art, behavior, etc) the more it can be known that way
  582. [2012-06-09 17:37:53] <SuperSnark> traingular right, pyramids?
  583. [2012-06-09 17:38:02] <Cervator> something like that i figure :-)
  584. [2012-06-09 17:38:19] <Overdhose> ach ok with ya now
  585. [2012-06-09 17:38:22] <woodspeople> frustration level on trying to mod things is very high: become known as the mod-friendly game and people might come in droves
  586. [2012-06-09 17:38:28] <Overdhose> yeah tha sounds ideal
  587. [2012-06-09 17:38:34] <Cervator> yep - groundswell :D
  588. [2012-06-09 17:38:38] <woodspeople> yep
  589. [2012-06-09 17:39:03] <Cervator> so we need a simple art style, most likely blocky, but more detailed than MC like with glasz and A'nW's dwarves - sound sensible?
  590. [2012-06-09 17:39:17] <woodspeople> but it could be blocky with an interesting edge
  591. [2012-06-09 17:39:26] <woodspeople> i personally love the disconnected style - more imaginative
  592. [2012-06-09 17:39:29] <Cervator> can specialize a bit past that with disconnected elementals, angulons, etc :-)
  593. [2012-06-09 17:39:40] <Cervator> yeah but harder to follow for a wide audience
  594. [2012-06-09 17:39:41] <SuperSnark> The Angulons are clumping! The Angulons are clumping!
  595. [2012-06-09 17:39:41] <woodspeople> first steps blocky? angulon later?
  596. [2012-06-09 17:40:06] <Cervator> something you have to apply to everything to really get the style right, like trees, plants, and architecture - at least that's the feel i get from it :-)
  597. [2012-06-09 17:40:09] <Overdhose> get ready for an angulon attack!!!!!!
  598. [2012-06-09 17:40:19] <SuperSnark> lol
  599. [2012-06-09 17:40:21] <woodspeople> eh, people are eager to understand systems, they love weird detail as long as it's consistent
  600. [2012-06-09 17:40:33] <SuperSnark> agreed
  601. [2012-06-09 17:40:39] <Overdhose> aye
  602. [2012-06-09 17:40:54] <woodspeople> motto: make it yours, or something
  603. [2012-06-09 17:40:57] <Cervator> true, but can we keep up that level of consistency with anything but extreme simplicity in such a open environment? :-)
  604. [2012-06-09 17:41:27] <woodspeople> what's wrong with extreme simplicity?
  605. [2012-06-09 17:41:37] <Cervator> nothing! it's good
  606. [2012-06-09 17:41:51] <woodspeople> overdhose's bobbing heads are actually pretty cool
  607. [2012-06-09 17:41:59] <woodspeople> i like the disembodied head thing
  608. [2012-06-09 17:42:12] <Cervator> the disconnected style IMHO is just an example of non-extremely simple - if still great looking :-)
  609. [2012-06-09 17:42:16] <woodspeople> what we say is real is real and actually people love that
  610. [2012-06-09 17:42:28] <Overdhose> I actually tried to find a better model for them but so far ....
  611. [2012-06-09 17:42:40] <Cervator> phone again, sec
  612. [2012-06-09 17:43:04] <Overdhose> please hold *
  613. [2012-06-09 17:43:24] <Overdhose> all our catmasters are busy at this point
  614. [2012-06-09 17:43:35] <Overdhose> you are nimber 32 in the queue
  615. [2012-06-09 17:43:46] <Overdhose> number*
  616. [2012-06-09 17:44:06] <SuperSnark> =)
  617. [2012-06-09 17:44:12] <metouto_> someone sing please
  618. [2012-06-09 17:44:15] <immortius> I knew I shouldn't have subscribed to the 24 hour meow channel.
  619. [2012-06-09 17:44:29] <woodspeople> overdhose every time i see your pic i think you really are 10 or something
  620. [2012-06-09 17:44:31] <Cervator> of course today the phone keeps ringing so i can get teased :D
  621. [2012-06-09 17:44:48] <Cervator> what's the bobbing heads thing again?
  622. [2012-06-09 17:45:02] <woodspeople> just that the monkeys have no bodies. it's consistent so it doesn't matter
  623. [2012-06-09 17:45:06] <Cervator> oh, heh, right
  624. [2012-06-09 17:45:07] <Overdhose> if you would like to complain about long waiting times, please press ctlr + alt + del on your phone to connect to our complaint service
  625. [2012-06-09 17:45:14] <woodspeople> my point is, if you are consistent people will accept/like just about anything
  626. [2012-06-09 17:45:23] <Cervator> yeah, i agree
  627. [2012-06-09 17:45:27] <Cervator> and we need the consistency
  628. [2012-06-09 17:45:39] <woodspeople> even if it's foolish
  629. [2012-06-09 17:45:41] <Cervator> isn't that easier to achieve with simplicity tho?
  630. [2012-06-09 17:45:53] <woodspeople> out of simplicity comes complexity
  631. [2012-06-09 17:45:57] <woodspeople> that's the open source way
  632. [2012-06-09 17:46:00] <Cervator> zenny
  633. [2012-06-09 17:46:06] <glasz> what do you mean by simplicity?
  634. [2012-06-09 17:46:16] <woodspeople> build a creature
  635. [2012-06-09 17:46:18] <Overdhose> more taoist I think
  636. [2012-06-09 17:46:26] <woodspeople> i am actually
  637. [2012-06-09 17:46:28] <Cervator> blocky = simple
  638. [2012-06-09 17:46:56] <Cervator> disconnected blocky = more distinct and nice, but also slightly less simple :-)
  639. [2012-06-09 17:47:05] <glasz> blocky like even less details?
  640. [2012-06-09 17:47:16] <Cervator> i still love it, but wonder if we can apply that at the global level rather than as a sub-style?
  641. [2012-06-09 17:47:24] <dei_> depends on the shrinking factor
  642. [2012-06-09 17:47:25] <Cervator> naw, level of detail is good on all our current models IMHO
  643. [2012-06-09 17:47:27] <dei_> ..
  644. [2012-06-09 17:47:30] <dei_> (detail)
  645. [2012-06-09 17:47:30] <Overdhose> no I think the detail level is fine as is
  646. [2012-06-09 17:47:31] <woodspeople> well even when something's simple there has to be a simply fun thing about it. if it's not disconnected it could be one other thing like the faces
  647. [2012-06-09 17:47:49] <woodspeople> i like the faces
  648. [2012-06-09 17:47:56] <Cervator> facial expressions could be another sub-style?
  649. [2012-06-09 17:48:04] <begla> Not quite related to the current discussion... But when talking about simplicity. Did we completely abandon the procedural creature thought? Might be a nice addition, quite distinct and something I'm interested in
  650. [2012-06-09 17:48:11] |<-- dei_laptop has left freenode (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  651. [2012-06-09 17:48:13] <begla> Very interesting publication in that regard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCXzcPNsqGA
  652. [2012-06-09 17:48:14] <glasz> well, if you watch minecraft it is disconnected too, just less obviously (just to understand, i dont care about the disjointed style)
  653. [2012-06-09 17:48:20] <woodspeople> procedural creature?
  654. [2012-06-09 17:48:35] <Cervator> 1) all creatures are blocky; 2) some creatures might be disconnected/disjointed; 3) some creatures might have faces
  655. [2012-06-09 17:48:41] <Cervator> and yeah, that's true on MC
  656. [2012-06-09 17:48:52] <Cervator> procedural creature stuff - that's a good reminder
  657. [2012-06-09 17:49:04] <Cervator> way back when we were thinking about building creatures out of smaller parts
  658. [2012-06-09 17:49:10] <Cervator> a simple example is a zombie
  659. [2012-06-09 17:49:16] <Cervator> which may have missing limbs
  660. [2012-06-09 17:49:25] <Cervator> (at least i think that was one example)
  661. [2012-06-09 17:49:29] <woodspeople> procedural creatures are relatively easy
  662. [2012-06-09 17:49:41] <begla> That's what I wanted to hear
  663. [2012-06-09 17:49:42] <begla> :D
  664. [2012-06-09 17:49:42] <Cervator> Dwarf Fortress also has a lot of crazy random creatures, which is easy to do in text
  665. [2012-06-09 17:49:55] <glasz> yeah i have thought about combining body parts
  666. [2012-06-09 17:50:10] <Overdhose> sounds interesting
  667. [2012-06-09 17:50:21] <woodspeople> then making creatures is defining params
  668. [2012-06-09 17:50:31] <Cervator> we probably would need to meet somewhere in the middle - could have different torsos you can attach different numbers of limbs to, etc
  669. [2012-06-09 17:50:33] <immortius> the disconnected models may go well with this. If you have a set of base skeletons (bipedal, quadrapedal, unipedal), then attach different mesh to the different bones...
  670. [2012-06-09 17:50:50] <glasz> when i made the death angel i imagined it had 2 torso parts
  671. [2012-06-09 17:50:54] <begla> Excellent for gibbing too ;)
  672. [2012-06-09 17:50:56] <Cervator> that'd be cool too
  673. [2012-06-09 17:51:10] <Overdhose> love that vid Begla
  674. [2012-06-09 17:51:34] <woodspeople> dog again
  675. [2012-06-09 17:51:42] <glasz> you coud plung a biped part on a horse neck and have centaurus
  676. [2012-06-09 17:51:44] <Cervator> do we need to worry about changing anything else then if we go more disconnected/disjointed? like the trees, architecture, etc? that was my main concern, along with whether artists will be able to follow it easily enough, consistently? :-)
  677. [2012-06-09 17:52:12] <glasz> i think the disjointed is consistent because its animated
  678. [2012-06-09 17:52:29] <glasz> on something static it would look stranger
  679. [2012-06-09 17:52:48] <Cervator> that video reminds me of that weird browser thing where you generated wheeled "creatures" to see how far they could go
  680. [2012-06-09 17:54:36] <woodspeople> his dark materials
  681. [2012-06-09 17:55:03] <begla> Should be no problem Cerv
  682. [2012-06-09 17:55:10] <begla> All goes well together with a skeletal aniamtion system
  683. [2012-06-09 17:55:12] <woodspeople> you could start with a very simple procedural model for creatures then add functionality over time
  684. [2012-06-09 17:55:16] <woodspeople> not that i have time for it
  685. [2012-06-09 17:55:24] <woodspeople> wish i did
  686. [2012-06-09 17:55:35] <begla> Would love creatures evolving from water to land ;)
  687. [2012-06-09 17:55:41] <woodspeople> and back
  688. [2012-06-09 17:55:44] <begla> Yeah!
  689. [2012-06-09 17:55:56] <Overdhose> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBOXIhFCqBE&feature=fvwp
  690. [2012-06-09 17:56:08] <Overdhose> have a look at that littlefellow
  691. [2012-06-09 17:56:15] <begla> Uah
  692. [2012-06-09 17:56:15] <begla> Unfortunately, this UMG-music-content is not available in Germany because GEMA has not granted the respective music publishing rights.
  693. [2012-06-09 17:56:20] <Overdhose> all he needs is a world to frolic around
  694. [2012-06-09 17:56:22] <Cervator> okay, next order of business: how do we recruit theinquisitor from youtube to work on Terasology :D
  695. [2012-06-09 17:56:59] <Cervator> it is a long creature like from the other video that's mostly purple and indeed very frollicy
  696. [2012-06-09 17:57:23] <Cervator> okay, so where were we :D
  697. [2012-06-09 17:57:41] <begla> This publication built the foundation for all the stuff from... www.naturalmotion.com
  698. [2012-06-09 17:57:48] <begla> Good luck with recruiting him :)
  699. [2012-06-09 17:58:23] <Cervator> we *can* do the disjointed setup as a global with technical advantages and there shouldn't be anything concerning about having other artists able to follow it and no substantial clashing with other stuff in the world? :-)
  700. [2012-06-09 17:58:24] <woodspeople> writing these things is low level in biology these days
  701. [2012-06-09 17:58:55] <Cervator> (i'd love that, incidentally, just was worried too distinct could be trouble?)
  702. [2012-06-09 17:59:18] <immortius> Artificial Life by Steven Levy is a great read btw
  703. [2012-06-09 17:59:21] <woodspeople> if anybody wants to write a procedural creature generator i'd be happy to give tips as a biologist and simulator writer, cannot give more
  704. [2012-06-09 17:59:42] <Cervator> seems like it would go well with the procedural plant generator :-)
  705. [2012-06-09 17:59:51] <glasz> i think we can, i can propose less disjointed concept models also
  706. [2012-06-09 17:59:52] <woodspeople> yep, same sort of thing
  707. [2012-06-09 18:00:28] <Overdhose> hehe my first comment : can't wait for plant monster studio :P
  708. [2012-06-09 18:00:35] <Cervator> okay - think that's enough to go on for art style then? do you want to lead it up in that sense, glasz? the order bit is the thing about how to introduce a decision process on the art style
  709. [2012-06-09 18:00:47] <Cervator> er, other bit
  710. [2012-06-09 18:00:56] <woodspeople> PMS? he he
  711. [2012-06-09 18:01:06] <Cervator> haha
  712. [2012-06-09 18:01:09] <Overdhose> grin
  713. [2012-06-09 18:01:32] <Overdhose> monster plant studio then :D
  714. [2012-06-09 18:01:53] <Cervator> an outright art lead would probably the easiest way to maintain a consistent art style and to work some sort of decision process
  715. [2012-06-09 18:02:03] <woodspeople> if we had not died financially and respawned as corporate hacks we were planning to enlarge PS to simulate lots of things
  716. [2012-06-09 18:02:05] <begla> Might come back to that woodspeople
  717. [2012-06-09 18:02:12] <woodspeople> agree on outright art lead
  718. [2012-06-09 18:02:28] <Cervator> and i know about as much about making decisions around art stuff as i do on fixing cars (i'll let you guess whether that's a lot or a little...)
  719. [2012-06-09 18:02:29] <begla> "if anybody wants to write a procedural creature generator i'd be happy to give tips as a biologist and simulator writer, cannot give more"
  720. [2012-06-09 18:02:52] <Cervator> tag, you're it, glasz? :-)
  721. [2012-06-09 18:03:03] <woodspeople> why do people's names sometimes turn red?
  722. [2012-06-09 18:03:05] <glasz> i was thinking we could decide what will be our second in game creature, propose graphics, have people comment on it (non artists included of course) and from that have our first creature and derive the style from it
  723. [2012-06-09 18:03:36] <Overdhose> using Xchat I guess?
  724. [2012-06-09 18:04:01] <Cervator> no names turning red here, but there's generally some sort of highlighting when your username is mentioned in chat
  725. [2012-06-09 18:04:14] <woodspeople> oooooh
  726. [2012-06-09 18:04:26] <woodspeople> chat newb
  727. [2012-06-09 18:04:56] <Overdhose> hehe same here but I figured it out while looking at the settings
  728. [2012-06-09 18:04:58] <glasz> cervator i can be but the more people participate in the decisions the better for me
  729. [2012-06-09 18:05:08] <Cervator> most certainly
  730. [2012-06-09 18:05:24] <woodspeople> don't worry people will chime in :)
  731. [2012-06-09 18:05:30] <glasz> :)
  732. [2012-06-09 18:06:00] <Overdhose> can't wait to slap that "free" goblin :P
  733. [2012-06-09 18:06:15] <woodspeople> you and your slapping
  734. [2012-06-09 18:06:17] <glasz> beware , they bite :p
  735. [2012-06-09 18:06:19] * Cervator wanders around Xenforo trying to find that place to set custom titles again
  736. [2012-06-09 18:06:58] <Overdhose> aye me and my slapping :P as snoop dog said : my pimp hand be way strong ^^
  737. [2012-06-09 18:07:23] <Cervator> begla, help :D
  738. [2012-06-09 18:07:28] <Cervator> where do you title people arrrrr
  739. [2012-06-09 18:07:38] <begla> One moment
  740. [2012-06-09 18:08:33] <Cervator> i think that might be it for the meeting then :-)
  741. [2012-06-09 18:08:39] <begla> http://forum.movingblocks.net/admin.php?users/cervator.2/edit
  742. [2012-06-09 18:08:44] <Cervator> not that you all can't stay till we turn off the lights later!
  743. [2012-06-09 18:08:57] <Cervator> oh duh
  744. [2012-06-09 18:09:03] <Cervator> maybe i should've checked the other tabs...
  745. [2012-06-09 18:09:07] <begla> lol
  746. [2012-06-09 18:09:28] <Cervator> brb (not phone!)
  747. [2012-06-09 18:10:24] <woodspeople> begla will look for paper on vertebrate motion simulation, there must be tons
  748. [2012-06-09 18:11:52] <glasz> i remember a java app whrere you created and manipulated line based creatures
  749. [2012-06-09 18:11:59] <Cervator> back - i await the day when a procedurally generated millipede shows up at my fortress' front door to do a dance routine with eagerness :D
  750. [2012-06-09 18:12:20] <Overdhose> those evolved virtual creatures are fun... watching a vof of an 18000th generation evolution
  751. [2012-06-09 18:12:31] <woodspeople> swimming easy, collision avoidance on land harder
  752. [2012-06-09 18:12:40] <Overdhose> vof = vod *
  753. [2012-06-09 18:12:44] <Overdhose> vid*
  754. [2012-06-09 18:13:22] |<-- begla has left freenode (Remote host closed the connection)
  755. [2012-06-09 18:13:33] <Cervator> oh, hey, dei_ even has an avatar in the forum now, and glasz a new title - you need to get yourself an avatar too, you stick out now :D
  756. [2012-06-09 18:13:56] -->| begla ([email protected]) has joined #terasology
  757. [2012-06-09 18:14:01] <glasz> i'll get one
  758. [2012-06-09 18:14:05] <woodspeople> looks like meeting is breaking up
  759. [2012-06-09 18:14:09] <woodspeople> bye folks
  760. [2012-06-09 18:14:10] <dei_> even a real photograph of myself..
  761. [2012-06-09 18:14:15] <Cervator> see ya, thanks for coming :-)
  762. [2012-06-09 18:14:20] <glasz> bye
  763. [2012-06-09 18:14:22] <dei_> bye
  764. [2012-06-09 18:14:29] <woodspeople> bye
  765. [2012-06-09 18:14:46] |<-- woodspeople has left freenode (Quit: Page closed)
  766. [2012-06-09 18:14:48] <Cervator> glasz - anything remaining you want to discuss on the direction/decision process for art stuff?
  767. [2012-06-09 18:14:56] <Cervator> or you want to just come up with something?
  768. [2012-06-09 18:15:30] <glasz> no i'm ok for now
  769. [2012-06-09 18:15:40] <Cervator> cool :-)
  770. [2012-06-09 18:16:28] <Cervator> oh! belated record set, 20 online on IRC :D
  771. [2012-06-09 18:16:35] <Cervator> (counting woodspeople)
  772. [2012-06-09 18:17:05] <Cervator> i'll post a summary in the event thread a little later then plus a chat log :-)
  773. [2012-06-09 18:17:22] <dei_> I'm still undecided if I should build the idea-thing from the github issues or an own db
  774. [2012-06-09 18:17:24] <Cervator> thanks everybody for coming and continuing to help us grow this project together!
  775. [2012-06-09 18:17:43] <Cervator> i dunno, either works
  776. [2012-06-09 18:17:52] <dei_> any points to consider?
  777. [2012-06-09 18:17:55] <Cervator> key is avoiding a second user login
  778. [2012-06-09 18:18:08] <dei_> that would be in anyway
  779. [2012-06-09 18:18:23] <Cervator> (or a third user account, anyway, could reuse github as a pretty needed thing for most contributors)
  780. [2012-06-09 18:18:53] <dei_> someone against it, if I'm building this thing on a external db?
  781. [2012-06-09 18:18:58] <Overdhose> when you say based from github issues, you mean an export of the data
  782. [2012-06-09 18:19:11] <dei_> (relying on authentication from github)
  783. [2012-06-09 18:19:25] <dei_> I mean export and import..
  784. [2012-06-09 18:19:33] <Cervator> nah, more just because github is there and we can fake-use it as a DB that most users will have an account on already
  785. [2012-06-09 18:19:36] <dei_> more precisely working on the github data
  786. [2012-06-09 18:19:42] <dei_> over an api
  787. [2012-06-09 18:19:59] <dei_> and saving the votes and additional info in a db
  788. [2012-06-09 18:20:00] <Cervator> Xenforo might be a little more tricky to work on
  789. [2012-06-09 18:20:09] <Cervator> begla - still around?
  790. [2012-06-09 18:21:49] <Cervator> i'm sort of wondering how hard it would be to just entirely integrate it into Xenforo like a fancy poll addon
  791. [2012-06-09 18:22:04] <Overdhose> heh
  792. [2012-06-09 18:22:34] <dei_> seems rather hard
  793. [2012-06-09 18:22:59] <Cervator> i haven't looked, but it sounds like Xenforo isn't the easiest to work with?
  794. [2012-06-09 18:23:15] <Overdhose> that's what I also read
  795. [2012-06-09 18:23:20] <dei_> because xenforo is not made for categorization, single-post management
  796. [2012-06-09 18:23:31] <Cervator> would it help to look at something like the advanced rating addon?
  797. [2012-06-09 18:23:46] <dei_> its completely different to issue-/idea-tracking
  798. [2012-06-09 18:23:59] <glasz> have to go, bye people
  799. [2012-06-09 18:24:03] <Cervator> mainly just thinking that it tracks ratings/votes :-)
  800. [2012-06-09 18:24:05] <Cervator> see ya glasz
  801. [2012-06-09 18:24:18] <dei_> if it would be doable technically in code
  802. [2012-06-09 18:24:23] |<-- glasz has left freenode (Remote host closed the connection)
  803. [2012-06-09 18:24:36] <dei_> it wouldn't work because of different handling logics
  804. [2012-06-09 18:25:07] <Cervator> okay :-)
  805. [2012-06-09 18:25:08] <dei_> a forum is to different to a issue tracker from its data model
  806. [2012-06-09 18:25:17] <Overdhose> whoa that late already didn't realise we were here that long already
  807. [2012-06-09 18:25:32] <Cervator> yeah, couple hours for the main bulk
  808. [2012-06-09 18:25:37] <dei_> sure we could implement some half-hearted aproach
  809. [2012-06-09 18:25:55] <dei_> but if we make something I wanna do it right from the beginning
  810. [2012-06-09 18:26:19] <Overdhose> half hearted :P
  811. [2012-06-09 18:26:36] <Cervator> that's fine - the #1 thing i'd hope for then is the authentication piece to minimize user trouble in using it :-)
  812. [2012-06-09 18:27:04] <Cervator> (and other user conveniences like easy links from Xenforo threads or GitHub, or something)
  813. [2012-06-09 18:28:00] <dei_> halfhearted think that should be english
  814. [2012-06-09 18:28:15] <dei_> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/halfhearted
  815. [2012-06-09 18:29:02] <dei_> i'll look for these simplifications
  816. [2012-06-09 18:29:22] <Cervator> i'm going to take a little break myself - i'll help out primarily with the idea organizing while leaving the 3d wizardry to begla and immortius and artsy stuff to glasz et al :-)
  817. [2012-06-09 18:30:02] <Overdhose> cat - egorizing for Cerv :P
  818. [2012-06-09 18:30:10] <Cervator> (begla, if you pop up - any opinion on how easy it is to work with the DB Xenforo uses? curious if there's anything i can look at to make Nodes as Tabs work)
  819. [2012-06-09 18:30:17] <Cervator> yeah, rather appropriate ;-)
  820. [2012-06-09 18:30:54] <Cervator> thanks again off - afk a while :-)
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