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  1. [01/30/13 | 23:02] <Phwnemon>   GUYS
  2. [01/30/13 | 23:02] <Birkal>     and now I need to pay 700$ to fix the bumper -__-
  3. [01/30/13 | 23:02] <Phwnemon>   CONSTRUCTIVE CHAT TIME!
  4. [01/30/13 | 23:02] <Zt> ?_?
  5. [01/30/13 | 23:02] <Phwnemon>   What do you guys believe the purposes of promotions should be?
  6. [01/30/13 | 23:02] <DetroitLolcat>      I mean, voice does not confer any power to a user, so I see voices as people who have distinguished themselves from the average user for whatever reason.
  7. [01/30/13 | 23:02] <Phwnemon>   If we're going to promote people we need to pin this down first
  8. [01/30/13 | 23:03] <DetroitLolcat>      hmm...i remember when I got my bumper fucked up.
  9. [01/30/13 | 23:03] *    mikel|away is now known as mikel
  10. [01/30/13 | 23:03] <jas61292>   I see statuses as a measure of contribution. You contribute a decent amount, you get voice. Not much too it.
  11. [01/30/13 | 23:03] <DetroitLolcat>      I was driving one day and this shady guy with a heavy accent drove up to me and told me he "knew a guy" who could fix my car "for cheap"...
  12. [01/30/13 | 23:04] <Phwnemon>   Lolcat - is there really a need to voice users just because they distinguish themselves? I'd think that if you were a distinguished chatter you'd make it known via chatting
  13. [01/30/13 | 23:04] <Zt> ^ @ jas
  14. [01/30/13 | 23:04] <jas61292>   Higher levels are more about discussion leadership, but it is not like you have to be absurdly amazing at everything
  15. [01/30/13 | 23:04] <Zt> Why don't we follow loosely Showdown's structure?
  16. [01/30/13 | 23:04] <DetroitLolcat>      You can make it known via chatting, and voice is just a tangible reward for those who have done so.
  17. [01/30/13 | 23:04] <Phwnemon>   So it serves no actual purpose other than as a reward to those who get it?
  18. [01/30/13 | 23:05] <Zt> People who contribute enough get voice (mostly regular stayers who tried, at least, to chat)
  19. [01/30/13 | 23:05] <DetroitLolcat>      Essentially, as what else is voice for?
  20. [01/30/13 | 23:05] <Zt> And a drive to go further, too, pwne.
  21. [01/30/13 | 23:05] *    Tobes has quit (Ping timeout)
  22. [01/30/13 | 23:05] *    V4 has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  23. [01/30/13 | 23:05] <DetroitLolcat>      I mean, voice confers no significant powers, so why not just use it as a "badge of respect"?
  24. [01/30/13 | 23:05] <Phwnemon>   I was under the impression that it was to point out the distinguished chatters of the channel as models to emulate
  25. [01/30/13 | 23:06] <imanalt|phone>      abolish voice!
  26. [01/30/13 | 23:06] <Zt> Pwne - maybe that status can be driven up to Hops.
  27. [01/30/13 | 23:06] <jas61292>   Yes, but there are just as there are multiple levels of quality, there are multiple levels of status
  28. [01/30/13 | 23:06] <Phwnemon>   Then i fear that someone being voiced would give the wrong impression
  29. [01/30/13 | 23:06] <Zt> Not really, Pwne.
  30. [01/30/13 | 23:06] <Phwnemon>   Basically nobody who isn't a role model to emulate should get any kind of auth
  31. [01/30/13 | 23:06] <imanalt|phone>      ive never liked voice anywhere because it just makes people feel superior or inferior, which is just bad
  32. [01/30/13 | 23:07] <Phwnemon>   That's what i was saying too alty
  33. [01/30/13 | 23:07] <Phwnemon>   For an /hour/ yesterday lol
  34. [01/30/13 | 23:07] <DetroitLolcat>      I agree alty, but that's why I think voice should be given sparingly.
  35. [01/30/13 | 23:07] <capefeather>        I was checking the access list today and I remembered why I stopped caring about auth levels
  36. [01/30/13 | 23:07] *    smashlloyd20 has quit (Ping timeout)
  37. [01/30/13 | 23:07] <capefeather>        is doug the "owner" of this channel now or what's going on?
  38. [01/30/13 | 23:07] <Phwnemon>   Yeah
  39. [01/30/13 | 23:08] <DetroitLolcat>      He wasn't always the owner?
  40. [01/30/13 | 23:08] <jas61292>   nope
  41. [01/30/13 | 23:08] <Phwnemon>   My agreement with alty is why i think voice needs to be conferred for a purpose other than a reward
  42. [01/30/13 | 23:08] <Phwnemon>   Because as a reward it does an awful shitty job
  43. [01/30/13 | 23:08] <capefeather>        tennisace has always been the owner afaik
  44. [01/30/13 | 23:08] <jas61292>   tennisace still is
  45. [01/30/13 | 23:08] <imanalt|phone>      no im saying dont give voice for anything
  46. [01/30/13 | 23:08] <imanalt|phone>      lol
  47. [01/30/13 | 23:08] <Phwnemon>   Neither am i
  48. [01/30/13 | 23:09] <DetroitLolcat>      Right, I understand your position alty. I just draw a different conclusion
  49. [01/30/13 | 23:09] <Phwnemon>   But giving voice as a "you're special" badge i don't like because as i said it makes people feel inferior or superior
  50. [01/30/13 | 23:09] <Phwnemon>   As you said*
  51. [01/30/13 | 23:09] <capefeather>        I don't think I'll truly be able to take auth levels seriously until that is addressed
  52. [01/30/13 | 23:09] <Phwnemon>   Djd is too lazy to take it over from tennis
  53. [01/30/13 | 23:09] <DetroitLolcat>      lol
  54. [01/30/13 | 23:09] <Phwnemon>   It's seriously nbd
  55. [01/30/13 | 23:09] <jas61292>   Why does it matter?
  56. [01/30/13 | 23:09] <jas61292>   Its not important honestly
  57. [01/30/13 | 23:10] *    imanalt|phone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
  58. [01/30/13 | 23:10] <Phwnemon>   But back on topic
  59. [01/30/13 | 23:10] <capefeather>        it is if someone can arbitrarily dick around with a channel he doesn't go to anymore
  60. [01/30/13 | 23:10] <Zt> We boycott #cap until it disintegrates, then DJD re-reg it?
  61. [01/30/13 | 23:11] <Zt> Create a #captemp or something to fill in.
  62. [01/30/13 | 23:11] <Phwnemon>   Tennis isnt that kinda guy
  63. [01/30/13 | 23:11] <jas61292>   lol, I remember Birkal suggesting that once a while ago when the issue first came up
  64. [01/30/13 | 23:11] <DetroitLolcat>      Tennis still goes on smogon?
  65. [01/30/13 | 23:11] <DetroitLolcat>      o_O
  66. [01/30/13 | 23:11] <Birkal>     yes
  67. [01/30/13 | 23:11] <Birkal>     he regulars on smogon still
  68. [01/30/13 | 23:11] <Birkal>     lol
  69. [01/30/13 | 23:12] <DetroitLolcat>      man I never see him lol
  70. [01/30/13 | 23:12] <Fusxfaranto>        yeah, he's really active in NU
  71. [01/30/13 | 23:12] <Phwnemon>   He posted like yesterday or today
  72. [01/30/13 | 23:12] <Phwnemon>   In a forum
  73. [01/30/13 | 23:12] <Zt> eh forum?
  74. [01/30/13 | 23:12] <DetroitLolcat>      oh
  75. [01/30/13 | 23:12] <DetroitLolcat>      I don't go in eh forum much outside the NFL thread
  76. [01/30/13 | 23:12] <DetroitLolcat>      so that's probably why lol
  77. [01/30/13 | 23:12] <Phwnemon>   I dont keep up with the dumb name changes to a forum
  78. [01/30/13 | 23:13] <Phwnemon>   But ANYWAY
  79. [01/30/13 | 23:13] <capefeather>        he "was that kinda guy" once
  80. [01/30/13 | 23:13] <Zt> cape - I think he simply stopped caring.
  81. [01/30/13 | 23:13] <Phwnemon>   Since auth as we've established has no real use for discipline or very little
  82. [01/30/13 | 23:14] <Zt> So if it really comes to that, we can just move to another channel.
  83. [01/30/13 | 23:14] *    Engineer has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  84. [01/30/13 | 23:14] <Phwnemon>   It needs to be assigned for a different purpose
  85. [01/30/13 | 23:14] <Phwnemon>   Agreed?
  86. [01/30/13 | 23:14] <jas61292>   Not really. Its purpose now is fine.
  87. [01/30/13 | 23:15] <Phwnemon>   Discipline takes second fiddle to whatever we decide to do with our auth system - i believe that we'll be fine discipline wide either way
  88. [01/30/13 | 23:15] <Phwnemon>   Wise
  89. [01/30/13 | 23:15] <Phwnemon>   Jas are you advocating not to change our auth system
  90. [01/30/13 | 23:15] <Phwnemon>   Besides i don't even know what its purpose now is lol its kinda a mess
  91. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <Birkal>     can't we just have whoever is the IRC operator choose
  92. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <Birkal>     lol
  93. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <jas61292>   I agree that disipline has little to do with it. Obviously if you can't trust someone with op power you don't give it to them, but otherwise it shouldn't matter
  94. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <Phwnemon>   Birkal uh
  95. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <DetroitLolcat>      hmm
  96. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <Phwnemon>   A) that sounds a lot autocratic
  97. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <jas61292>   There is nothing wrong with the purpose though. Just the system that decides it
  98. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <DetroitLolcat>      birkal wants IRC operators to have more power
  99. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <Phwnemon>   B) how do we decide the irc op
  100. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <DetroitLolcat>      birkal is an IRC operator
  101. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <DetroitLolcat>      TYRANT! AUTOCRAT! OVERTHROW
  102. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <DetroitLolcat>      :P
  103. [01/30/13 | 23:16] <Zt> Powah abooze
  104. [01/30/13 | 23:17] <DetroitLolcat>      viva la revolucion
  105. [01/30/13 | 23:17] <Phwnemon>   Jas you still never said what its purpose is
  106. [01/30/13 | 23:17] <Phwnemon>   I'm not being an ass here frankly i dont know
  107. [01/30/13 | 23:17] <Phwnemon>   What is the purpose of auth atm on #cap
  108. [01/30/13 | 23:17] <jas61292>   Recognition to people who are good chat presence
  109. [01/30/13 | 23:17] <Birkal>     I am in a way, lolcat
  110. [01/30/13 | 23:17] <Birkal>     currently the mods are the IRC operators
  111. [01/30/13 | 23:17] <Birkal>     that's why status is so wonky
  112. [01/30/13 | 23:17] <Birkal>     because it's like, we have to confirm all changes with each other
  113. [01/30/13 | 23:17] <Phwnemon>   Recognition how jas
  114. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <Phwnemon>   As in a reward?
  115. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <Zt> Not reward.
  116. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <DetroitLolcat>      I think what pwnemon is getting at is that "recognition" is an ambiguous term.
  117. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <Phwnemon>   Yes
  118. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <Zt> Because what, having ops in an IRC channel is a reward?
  119. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <Kadew>      recognition means gold stars
  120. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <Kadew>      everybody loves gold stars
  121. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <Phwnemon>   We're saying "recognition" as if it settles it
  122. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <Kadew>      give out gold stars to everybody
  123. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <Phwnemon>   When it still leaves a fuckton of ambiguity
  124. [01/30/13 | 23:18] *    dodrio (dodrio@Trainer.Of.Birds) has left #cap
  125. [01/30/13 | 23:18] <Zt> I don't think so - recognition is simply "Hey you've been here long enough"
  126. [01/30/13 | 23:19] <jas61292>   Not a reward at all. It is more of a label, honestly. Its saying "see that person with a % (or @ or whatever)? They are good"
  127. [01/30/13 | 23:19] <Kadew>      been here long enough /and/ talked a bunch
  128. [01/30/13 | 23:19] <DetroitLolcat>      "recognition" as in that this person is a role model and should be recognized, or "recognition" as in that this person is an experienced member of CAP
  129. [01/30/13 | 23:19] <jas61292>   "Follow their example"
  130. [01/30/13 | 23:19] <Phwnemon>   So you're saying recognition as in showing others who to emulate
  131. [01/30/13 | 23:19] <jas61292>   pretty much
  132. [01/30/13 | 23:19] <Phwnemon>   Good so we're on the same page
  133. [01/30/13 | 23:19] <Zt> My answer to that, DLC is "recognition" as in this person has been around IRC long enough.
  134. [01/30/13 | 23:20] <Phwnemon>   So you think we should voice someone just for being experienced zt?
  135. [01/30/13 | 23:20] <DetroitLolcat>      And the other question is: should an experienced but mediocre-quality user be given voice?
  136. [01/30/13 | 23:20] <Zt> I don't see why not, Pwne - since voice and below still have to look up to drivers/mods/hops and above.
  137. [01/30/13 | 23:20] <Zt> Same to DLC.
  138. [01/30/13 | 23:20] <Phwnemon>   But it's not about that, zt
  139. [01/30/13 | 23:21] <Phwnemon>   It's all about what the lower auth levels have to look up to
  140. [01/30/13 | 23:21] <jas61292>   Exactly, that is what a multitiered system is about. It is not "good users" and "bad users"
  141. [01/30/13 | 23:21] <Phwnemon>   If we voice a mediocre user, it sets a bad role model for non-voiced users
  142. [01/30/13 | 23:21] <Zt> When people see voice, they go "Oh this guys has been around long enough, if I'm not voiced, maybe I should listen for a while to how he talks the talk"
  143. [01/30/13 | 23:21] <Phwnemon>   But being around for long doesn't make you a good user
  144. [01/30/13 | 23:21] <DetroitLolcat>      However, regular users will probably look up to voiced users more than any other group, because any regular user who wants to move up will shoot for voice.
  145. [01/30/13 | 23:21] <jas61292>   Voice is not the be all and end all of good chat
  146. [01/30/13 | 23:21] <Phwnemon>   .-.
  147. [01/30/13 | 23:21] <Zt> And users learn fast who is a better role model, even amongst voice.
  148. [01/30/13 | 23:22] <Phwnemon>   But if we're voicing users to prove who is a role model
  149. [01/30/13 | 23:22] <DetroitLolcat>      but should bad or average role models be given voice in the first place?
  150. [01/30/13 | 23:22] <Phwnemon>   Then saying "you'll learn who's a role model among the voice"
  151. [01/30/13 | 23:22] <Phwnemon>   Kinda defeats the point of voicing
  152. [01/30/13 | 23:22] <DetroitLolcat>      Why not cut the ambiguity and only voice the role models?
  153. [01/30/13 | 23:22] <Zt> Pwne - "better role model"
  154. [01/30/13 | 23:22] <Phwnemon>   I agree with dlc
  155. [01/30/13 | 23:23] <Phwnemon>   I don't think voicing is graduating fourth grade
  156. [01/30/13 | 23:23] <Phwnemon>   Where when you hang around long enough they hand it to you
  157. [01/30/13 | 23:23] <Zt> Neither do I.
  158. [01/30/13 | 23:23] <Zt> Voicing would be more like acing fourth grade.
  159. [01/30/13 | 23:23] <Phwnemon>   ? Zt i am confused as hell
  160. [01/30/13 | 23:23] <Zt> Where you have to hang out and be good enough before you get it.
  161. [01/30/13 | 23:24] <Zt> Not the best, but at least good enough.
  162. [01/30/13 | 23:24] <Phwnemon>   I don't think time in the channel
  163. [01/30/13 | 23:24] <Phwnemon>   Should have anything to do with it
  164. [01/30/13 | 23:24] <Phwnemon>   For voice at least, higher auth yes
  165. [01/30/13 | 23:24] <DetroitLolcat>      and then we move to the "what is good enough"
  166. [01/30/13 | 23:24] <Phwnemon>   Yeah
  167. [01/30/13 | 23:24] <DetroitLolcat>      are average users with lots of experience considered good role models for their dedication?
  168. [01/30/13 | 23:24] <Zt> a) Able to throw out sound ideas. Agreed?
  169. [01/30/13 | 23:24] <Phwnemon>   I don't think anyone who's got argumentative (in a bad way) tendencies should be voiced
  170. [01/30/13 | 23:24] <Yilx>       yeah
  171. [01/30/13 | 23:25] <Yilx>       too riksy a move
  172. [01/30/13 | 23:25] <DetroitLolcat>      Quality should be stressed over quantity, but there's something to be said for voluble posters
  173. [01/30/13 | 23:25] *    smashlloyd20 (~smashlloy@synIRC-3B1A2D41.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #cap
  174. [01/30/13 | 23:25] <DetroitLolcat>      err, chatters!
  175. [01/30/13 | 23:25] <jas61292>   Exactly
  176. [01/30/13 | 23:25] <Phwnemon>   You can't get voice by piping up once in a blue moon, either
  177. [01/30/13 | 23:25] <Zt> A voice should, at least, be able to say "Wonder Guard is bad optics" without needing to read PRC.
  178. [01/30/13 | 23:26] <Zt> (of course this is a mere illustrated example)
  179. [01/30/13 | 23:26] <Phwnemon>   That's like easier than shitting in a toilet, zt
  180. [01/30/13 | 23:26] <Zt> Of course - all it takes is common sense, right?
  181. [01/30/13 | 23:26] <DetroitLolcat>      what if these "once in a blue moon" chatters contribute great material to the chat?
  182. [01/30/13 | 23:26] <Phwnemon>   I believe you are setting the bar a bit too low for voice
  183. [01/30/13 | 23:26] <Phwnemon>   They're still not active enough to be a role model
  184. [01/30/13 | 23:26] <Zt> Perhaps, Pwne - raise the bar if you will?
  185. [01/30/13 | 23:27] <Zt> We can always haggle/bargain/consent.
  186. [01/30/13 | 23:27] <Zt> :P
  187. [01/30/13 | 23:27] <Phwnemon>   Basically we've all been in that chat where someone has auth and you go "why the fuck do they have auth they don't even talk"
  188. [01/30/13 | 23:27] <Phwnemon>   Even if their occasional contributions are stellar they don't deserve auth
  189. [01/30/13 | 23:28] <Zt> So first off - we need chat presence and common sense. We can all agree to that as a minimum requirement, no?
  190. [01/30/13 | 23:28] <Phwnemon>   Because they rarely demonstrate why they have it
  191. [01/30/13 | 23:28] <Phwnemon>   Yeah i agree zt
  192. [01/30/13 | 23:28] <Phwnemon>   And you need to be a unifying rather than attacking and dividing presence in the chat
  193. [01/30/13 | 23:28] <Phwnemon>   Even if those users are fun, they're terrible role models
  194. [01/30/13 | 23:28] <Zt> Then moving up, what addendum to the minimum should be to get voice.
  195. [01/30/13 | 23:28] <Zt> ??
  196. [01/30/13 | 23:28] <Birkal>     I think everyone should believe in themselves
  197. [01/30/13 | 23:28] <Birkal>     :<
  198. [01/30/13 | 23:29] <Phwnemon>   One thing i don't want - And i wish i'd used different language in my post
  199. [01/30/13 | 23:29] <DetroitLolcat>      you can edit the post...
  200. [01/30/13 | 23:30] <Phwnemon>   Is for someone to think a voiced user is a better contributor than themselves
  201. [01/30/13 | 23:30] *    HD has quit (Quit: )
  202. [01/30/13 | 23:30] <DetroitLolcat>      then what should a newbie or regular user think of a voiced user?
  203. [01/30/13 | 23:30] <Zt> Pwne - what about drivers/mods/higher?
  204. [01/30/13 | 23:30] <Phwnemon>   The only thing that separates voice from a good non-voice is the demeanor - voiced people are helpful and kind where non-voiced ones might be a riproarin asshole
  205. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <Zt> ... You got me there Pwne. Keep going?
  206. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <jas61292>   I agree pwnemon, but I think that is better achieved by voicing MORE rather than less
  207. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <Phwnemon>   You can be a great contributor to chat, and have great ideas
  208. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <Phwnemon>   Think dusk
  209. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <Zt> Think srk
  210. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <capefeather>        don't believe in yourself
  211. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <DetroitLolcat>      man I never see srk anymore :(
  212. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <capefeather>        believe in me
  213. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <capefeather>        because I believe in you
  214. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <DetroitLolcat>      believe in Big Brother
  215. [01/30/13 | 23:31] <Zt> God of Vestfurs..
  216. [01/30/13 | 23:32] <Phwnemon>   But if you have a tendency to be a douchebag, you're not setting a good model for new users to emulate
  217. [01/30/13 | 23:32] <DetroitLolcat>      Big Brother will do the believing
  218. [01/30/13 | 23:32] <Zt> Okay.
  219. [01/30/13 | 23:32] <jas61292>   Nah cape, don't believe in yourself, and don't believe in the cape that believes in you. Believe in the you that believes in yourself.
  220. [01/30/13 | 23:32] <Phwnemon>   And even though you may be a better contributor than some voiced users, you don't get voice because you are a dick
  221. [01/30/13 | 23:32] <Phwnemon>   And that's ok
  222. [01/30/13 | 23:32] <Zt> So voiced users should be... helpful and moderate in demeanor. Accurate enough summary?
  223. [01/30/13 | 23:32] <capefeather>        lol
  224. [01/30/13 | 23:32] <Phwnemon>   Yes
  225. [01/30/13 | 23:32] *    Birkal has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  226. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <Phwnemon>   And active
  227. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <Zt> That's what separates voice from regular contributors.
  228. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <Phwnemon>   Yep
  229. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <Zt> Okay, I'm convinced.
  230. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <DetroitLolcat>      okay birkal
  231. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <Zt> Moving on up - Hops.
  232. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <DetroitLolcat>      we're at a consensus.
  233. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <DetroitLolcat>      close the PR, please!
  234. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <Phwnemon>   Lol
  235. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <Zt> DLC - I ain't done yet.
  236. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <DetroitLolcat>      o_O
  237. [01/30/13 | 23:33] <Zt> What pushes a voice up to Hops?
  238. [01/30/13 | 23:34] *    Birkal (Mibbit@synIRC-BF8FDD0E.luther.edu) has joined #cap
  239. [01/30/13 | 23:34] <Phwnemon>   Hop is a voice who does have the good ideas
  240. [01/30/13 | 23:34] <DetroitLolcat>      Hops are a position of authority rather than respect, so some leadership quality needs to be in there.
  241. [01/30/13 | 23:34] <Phwnemon>   Who is intelligent in debates
  242. [01/30/13 | 23:34] <Phwnemon>   Who contributes to CAP well
  243. [01/30/13 | 23:35] <Phwnemon>   And who's the role model we want from voice
  244. [01/30/13 | 23:35] <DetroitLolcat>      I would relate hops to project mods on the forums
  245. [01/30/13 | 23:35] <Zt> Backtrack a bit, Pwne - you're saying a voice does not necessarily needs "good ideas"?
  246. [01/30/13 | 23:35] <Phwnemon>   Voice is what you get for social chatter
  247. [01/30/13 | 23:35] <Zt> Ah I see.
  248. [01/30/13 | 23:36] <DetroitLolcat>      pwnemon, I fail to see the difference between your definition of voice and of hops
  249. [01/30/13 | 23:36] <Phwnemon>   You don't necessarily need to be good with the actual hard-core capping
  250. [01/30/13 | 23:36] <Phwnemon>   For example yilx
  251. [01/30/13 | 23:36] <Zt> Hops is what you get from good competitive discussion in the chat.
  252. [01/30/13 | 23:36] <Phwnemon>   He's a great guy and a good role model
  253. [01/30/13 | 23:36] <Phwnemon>   But he never participates in these kind of debates
  254. [01/30/13 | 23:36] <Zt> Vary riksy to him.
  255. [01/30/13 | 23:36] <DetroitLolcat>      Hops should also have to be trusted with authority
  256. [01/30/13 | 23:36] *    capefeather has quit (Quit: while I'm ahead)
  257. [01/30/13 | 23:36] <Steamroll>  what about aops
  258. [01/30/13 | 23:36] <Phwnemon>   Hops you need to actually contribute to this shit
  259. [01/30/13 | 23:37] <jas61292>   I don't think you necessarily need to be involved with competitive stuff, but just with the project itself
  260. [01/30/13 | 23:37] <DetroitLolcat>      we'll probably get to aops once we're done definiing hops
  261. [01/30/13 | 23:37] <DetroitLolcat>      I disagree with that.
  262. [01/30/13 | 23:37] <Zt> To be able to lead the discussions, at least partially. That's hops, agreed?
  263. [01/30/13 | 23:37] <Phwnemon>   If you mean
  264. [01/30/13 | 23:37] <Phwnemon>   Current prc and cap debates
  265. [01/30/13 | 23:37] *    Mdevil has quit (Ping timeout)
  266. [01/30/13 | 23:37] <Phwnemon>   Then that's what i meant
  267. [01/30/13 | 23:37] <DetroitLolcat>      Hops should have to be knowledgable of every facet of the CAP project in my opinion, as they are responsible in part for moderating the chat
  268. [01/30/13 | 23:37] <Phwnemon>   Just knowing cap history is a vops thing
  269. [01/30/13 | 23:38] *    Deck_Knight (~Deck_Knig@synIRC-CD6DC0CA.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #cap
  270. [01/30/13 | 23:38] *    ChanServ sets mode +a #cap Deck_Knight
  271. [01/30/13 | 23:38] *    ChanServ gives channel operator status to Deck_Knight
  272. [01/30/13 | 23:38] <Zt> ^ @ DLC, except that it might not need be in-depth.
  273. [01/30/13 | 23:38] *    DTC has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  274. [01/30/13 | 23:38] <jas61292>   I mean, it should be about what goes on here. If someone is great in a ton of common discussions but is not the best competitive contributor, I have no problem. We need to remember this is about their chat ability.
  275. [01/30/13 | 23:38] <Deck_Knight>        Meganium Sulphate has never taken a marketing class, ever :(
  276. [01/30/13 | 23:38] <Phwnemon>   Basically while voice may set the standard for how to conduct yourself in social chatter, hops is the standard for CAP discussions
  277. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      that a familar sounding name
  278. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <DetroitLolcat>      Right, I don't mean that this person needs to have every nuance and quirk of the CAP project stored neatly in their memory banks, but they should have *significant* knowledge of every part of CAP
  279. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      has in
  280. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <Zt> For example, you can't possibly have to remember BSR off-hand just to get Hops, but you do need to be able to explain and pull up a link, right DLC?
  281. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      i remember bad things from that name
  282. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      lol
  283. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <Zt> I think Pwne can agree to that too, right?
  284. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <Phwnemon>   ...that's what i thought vops were
  285. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <DetroitLolcat>      yeah DK MeSO4 doesn't have the best app...
  286. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <Steamroll>  the only person I expect to know BSR on command
  287. [01/30/13 | 23:39] <Steamroll>  is DjD
  288. [01/30/13 | 23:40] <Phwnemon>   It is amusing though you gotta admir
  289. [01/30/13 | 23:40] <Phwnemon>   T
  290. [01/30/13 | 23:40] <DetroitLolcat>      I agree Zt
  291. [01/30/13 | 23:40] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      i remember someone tryed to summit a literal flaming poo for B/W cap 3
  292. [01/30/13 | 23:40] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      for art
  293. [01/30/13 | 23:40] <DetroitLolcat>      Honestly, I suggest very high standards for hops in #cap
  294. [01/30/13 | 23:40] <Steamroll>  I remember that
  295. [01/30/13 | 23:40] <Zt> Okay, Pwne - why do you think that requirement is a must for even vops?
  296. [01/30/13 | 23:40] <Phwnemon>   I think that's what vops are zt
  297. [01/30/13 | 23:40] <Phwnemon>   Because if you can't pull up a link i can't imagine you being too helpful
  298. [01/30/13 | 23:41] *    DTC (Mibbit@synIRC-E3EC5381.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #cap
  299. [01/30/13 | 23:41] <jas61292>   Basicially what I am saying is that there are definitely people (artists for example) who I think are excellent examples of what chat here should be and I wouldn't mind seeing as HOps who are not that fluent in all the competitive stuff. Understand it sure, but I don't think we should require much more
  300. [01/30/13 | 23:41] <DetroitLolcat>      being able to recognize past links and citing them is a pretty advanced skill for IRC
  301. [01/30/13 | 23:41] <Zt> ^
  302. [01/30/13 | 23:41] <Phwnemon>   Hops i think should be as or almost as competent as vops in social chatter
  303. [01/30/13 | 23:41] <Zt> There are some links, after all, that are obscure enough to search - take the Defensive Typing thread, for example.
  304. [01/30/13 | 23:41] <Phwnemon>   But also have the ability to hold their own in more serious discussion
  305. [01/30/13 | 23:42] <Yilx>       i still think toxican should have been mollluks
  306. [01/30/13 | 23:42] <DetroitLolcat>      I mean, with the speed that some #cap discussions go, if you can think of a germane link, find it, and bring it into the chat, you really know your shit lol
  307. [01/30/13 | 23:42] <Zt> To be able to hold their own, Pwne - I think it comes from knowing enough about the whole CAP process.
  308. [01/30/13 | 23:42] <DetroitLolcat>      Hops should be able to do much more than hold their own in discussions IMO
  309. [01/30/13 | 23:42] <Phwnemon>   Do you think my definition of hop should be bumped up to aop?
  310. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Zt> Pwne - maybe.
  311. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <DetroitLolcat>      Hops should also be able to correct and, if necessary, punish the behavior of users.
  312. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Phwnemon>   Detroitlolcat i mean people who could engage in this policy debate, or a debate about stat spreads, or just social chatter
  313. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal>     I think you are all
  314. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal>     nuts
  315. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal>     lol
  316. [01/30/13 | 23:43] *    ChanServ sets mode +a #cap Birkal
  317. [01/30/13 | 23:43] *    ChanServ gives channel operator status to Birkal
  318. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Phwnemon>   And are useful in chat
  319. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Yilx>       i think we should introduce a new kind of op
  320. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Yilx>       "rops"
  321. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Phwnemon>   But maybe that should be aops
  322. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Zt> Birkal - yeah, we take this too seriously.
  323. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Yilx>       which stands for "riksy operators"
  324. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal>     Real Operators
  325. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal>     oh risky
  326. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal>     lol
  327. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Yilx>       y/y
  328. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <DetroitLolcat>      "flops"- bad users
  329. [01/30/13 | 23:43] <Zt> Okay, get back on topic lol
  330. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <jas61292>   While I hate naming names, I think a good example of what I was trying to say before would be paintseagull. Competitive stuff may not be her forte, but she understands it well enough to be part of discussions, and is generally a great chat presence.
  331. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal>     I am more of a mop than a sop
  332. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Phwnemon>   Someone give me a flops badge
  333. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Fusxfaranto>        "mops"
  334. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Fusxfaranto>        the users that have to clean up the messes
  335. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal>     I clean up after Deck Knight makes messes ;__;
  336. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Yilx>       lol
  337. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal>     ;)
  338. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <DetroitLolcat>      ^_^
  339. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Fusxfaranto>        ;)
  340. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal>     oh he's not responding
  341. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Phwnemon>   I still would say that that's exactly what we were saying about voice
  342. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal>     that's no fun :(
  343. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Deck_Knight>        Pfft. The only thing I've ever made messes of are things that deserved it.
  344. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Phwnemon>   Maybe just very distinguished voices are hops?
  345. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal>     hahaha
  346. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Deck_Knight>        Example: tennisace's power trip
  347. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal>     that is true
  348. [01/30/13 | 23:44] <DetroitLolcat>      heh
  349. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <Birkal>     I like to think that some CAP members have anti-thesis members
  350. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <Zt> Not just that, Pwne - the voices must prove that they can recognize and correct improper behaviour in the chat, too.
  351. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <Birkal>     and I always think of deck and tennis as that
  352. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <Deck_Knight>        Example: Pretty much every pushback I've ever done on policy threads.
  353. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <DetroitLolcat>      hmm
  354. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <Zt> And are able to stand up to it, even against the likes of Birkal.
  355. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <DetroitLolcat>      I'm not sure about that zt
  356. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <Phwnemon>   Zt are you talking about vops or hops
  357. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <Deck_Knight>        Though I probably shouldn't have encouraged EVO so much
  358. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <DetroitLolcat>      I think that's more of what hops should have to do
  359. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <Zt> Hops requirement.
  360. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <Yilx>       we could have "drops" for r_d and bmb and such :(
  361. [01/30/13 | 23:45] <Phwnemon>   Yeah ok then
  362. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <DetroitLolcat>      okay yeah
  363. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal>     :<
  364. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <Deck_Knight>        But that was before Birkal's time and a priori he cannot claim to have fixed it.
  365. [01/30/13 | 23:46] *    Timeblaze (Mibbit@synIRC-73DE5248.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has left #cap
  366. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal>     I read about it
  367. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal>     ;__;
  368. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal>     I was BASICALLY there
  369. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal>     Ok I do have to make one comment about this whole #cap status stuff
  370. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <Deck_Knight>        The Dusk thing got out of hand, but that was a massive downward spirial and invariably I ended up breaking it.
  371. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <DetroitLolcat>      heh yilx
  372. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <DetroitLolcat>      that was funny!
  373. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal>     if any form of this allows for "the mollux night" to not occur
  374. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal>     then we have screwed up
  375. [01/30/13 | 23:46] <DetroitLolcat>      "the mollux night"?
  376. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <jas61292>   Mollux night?
  377. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <DetroitLolcat>      is that Drought War 2012?
  378. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Phwnemon>   Hops need to show that they understand what is acceptable and not in chat and can correct the mistakes; hops need to have a good all-around knowledge of the history and present of cap, hops have to be a unifying presence in chat as opposed to a divisive one
  379. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Phwnemon>   ANTIGRAVITY BOOBS
  380. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Birkal>     pwnemon knows what I am talking about
  381. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Birkal>     lol
  382. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Birkal>     yep
  383. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      lol
  384. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Zt> So chat presence and common sense = vops, behaviour upholder + process knowledge = hops.
  385. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Phwnemon>   yep
  386. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Phwnemon>   Everyone like those?
  387. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Zt> aops must then have a VERY GOOD SENSE of humour.
  388. [01/30/13 | 23:47] *    smashlloyd20 has quit (Quit: OUT)
  389. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <Deck_Knight>        Also I do not know why Birkal was razzing me.
  390. [01/30/13 | 23:47] <DetroitLolcat>      so should hops, for that matter.
  391. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Deck_Knight>        EXCEPT THAT HE IS DRUNK WITH POWER!
  392. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Zt> In order to reapply antigravity mammaries.
  393. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Birkal>     YAHARR
  394. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Birkal>     MUTINY
  395. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Birkal>     IT SEEMS
  396. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <DetroitLolcat>      Hops need to be able to determine whether or not comments are made in jest or actual punishable offenses
  397. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Phwnemon>   Aops would be people who can do all that hops can and are also actively engaged in the CAP process
  398. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Deck_Knight>        I like female human mammaries that gravitate into the possession of my hands and/or mouth.
  399. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Deck_Knight>        That is all.
  400. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Phwnemon>   Yeah thats a good point dlc
  401. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      lol
  402. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Birkal>     CAP5 will be a bird-mon or otherwise I am banning everyone from this chat
  403. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Birkal>     :|
  404. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <DetroitLolcat>      shit
  405. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Zt> Agreeing with Pwne and DLC there.
  406. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      sure
  407. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <DetroitLolcat>      we better do what this guy says
  408. [01/30/13 | 23:48] <Deck_Knight>        Wyverii already has art for that Birkal
  409. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Birkal>     caw
  410. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon>   Concept: burd
  411. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      i'll make it flying 121 speed with 125 special attack
  412. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon>   Justification: i like birds
  413. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Birkal>     hahaha deck I love you
  414. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Birkal>     22:48   Deck_Knight     EXCEPT THAT HE IS DRUNK WITH POWER!
  415. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Birkal>     and then when I'm drunk with power your response is
  416. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Kyosuke_Nanbu>      and regen
  417. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Birkal>     "wyverii has art for that"
  418. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <DetroitLolcat>      lol
  419. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon>   Lol
  420. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <DetroitLolcat>      is kadew on?
  421. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Kadew>      yes
  422. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Zt> Though I rather think Hops must still speak out against all form of inappropriate behaviour, be it in jest or in plain stupidity.
  423. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon>   No i dont think oj
  424. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon>   Oh
  425. [01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon>   Disagreed zt
  426. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Kadew>      If I am online I am usually lurking paying attention
  427. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <DetroitLolcat>      you should totally do a drawing of birkal's avatar drunk with power :D
  428. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal>     lol
  429. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon>   When we're in a silly mood, silliness is fine
  430. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal>     no don't do that
  431. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal>     I like my current avatar too much to change it
  432. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal>     :<
  433. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon>   Don't hate the mollux night
  434. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Kadew>      the bird, the rotom, or that wierd orange guy?
  435. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Deck_Knight>        I consider all contingencies. Then I eradicate about half of them and blame them on tennisace.
  436. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal>     lol
  437. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Zt> My reason for that being I envision Aops to override hops.
  438. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon>   Birkal I LOVE YOSHIS ISLAND
  439. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon>   OK
  440. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <DetroitLolcat>      Doesn't matter to me :D
  441. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Kadew>      or perhaps a wierd orange bird rotom (rotom-s)?
  442. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal>     yoshi's island is a fantastic game
  443. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <DetroitLolcat>      o_O
  444. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <SgtWoodsy>  the way i see it is
  445. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <SgtWoodsy>  there's a line
  446. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal>     pwnemon you see the trailer for yoshi yarn?
  447. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon>   aops shouldnt override hops they should work with them lol
  448. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Zt> So that when hops go "okay, stop that", aops can do "nah, we're just having fun, take it easy"
  449. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <SgtWoodsy>  most of you don't cross it but some of you cross the line embarassingly regularly
  450. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <DetroitLolcat>      Honesly, I just see Aops as the best of the hops
  451. [01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon>   No birkal kirby yarn saddened me
  452. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <Birkal>     WHAT
  453. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <Birkal>     NO YOU NEED TO SEE THIS
  454. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy>  i'm not feeling yarn yoshi
  455. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy>  if it was like
  456. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy>  HD yoshi's island
  457. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy>  graphically
  458. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <DetroitLolcat>      when a hop proves to have done a great job moderating the chat for an extended period of time, they can move on to aop
  459. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy>  then it would be incredible
  460. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <Phwnemon>   Yoshis island was the sex ok
  461. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy>  but why yarn
  462. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <Birkal>     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSJMjQAJjio
  463. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <Birkal>     watch
  464. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <Phwnemon>   Dlc i'd propose this
  465. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <DetroitLolcat>      also, are there any differences in power between hops and aops?
  466. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <Birkal>     watch watch watch
  467. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <Zt> I can agree to that DLC.
  468. [01/30/13 | 23:51] <Phwnemon>   Aops can promote to voice
  469. [01/30/13 | 23:52] <Zt> Owait.
  470. [01/30/13 | 23:52] <Kadew>      oh my goodness that yarn yoshi looks adorable
  471. [01/30/13 | 23:52] <Kadew>      I need it
  472. [01/30/13 | 23:52] <Birkal>     I KNOW RIGHT
  473. [01/30/13 | 23:52] <Zt> So aops must be able to recognize potential voice users too?
  474. [01/30/13 | 23:52] <DetroitLolcat>      well, then the distinction between who deserves aop and hop should have to do with that...
  475. [01/30/13 | 23:52] <Kadew>      NEEED IT
  476. [01/30/13 | 23:52] <DetroitLolcat>      Aops should have to be very, very well integrated into the community
  477. [01/30/13 | 23:52] <Zt> How do we subjectively measure that criterion?
  478. [01/30/13 | 23:52] <Phwnemon>   I think: an aop is a hop that also has demonstrated above average competency in CAP and PRC serious discussions, while meeting reqs for hop as well
  479. [01/30/13 | 23:53] <DetroitLolcat>      the same way we subjectively measure every other criterion?
  480. [01/30/13 | 23:53] <Zt> DLC - guess no other way but that.
  481. [01/30/13 | 23:53] <SgtWoodsy>  'are they trying to deliberately cause trouble and do they chip into a conversation every once in a while'
  482. [01/30/13 | 23:53] <Phwnemon>   What do you guys think about my idea of aop
  483. [01/30/13 | 23:54] <Phwnemon>   I really think we need higher auth to set the model for how to conduct yourself seriously
  484. [01/30/13 | 23:54] <Phwnemon>   (Also the only person who should be promoting is sop+ so we dont need to worry about that)
  485. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Zt> Woody would make a half-decent aops.... Owait, already a hops.
  486. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Yilx>       whats aops stand for
  487. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <SgtWoodsy>  @
  488. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Yilx>       aeroplaneo perator
  489. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Yilx>       oh
  490. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Zt> Admin operator
  491. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat>      While hops need to be 100% perfectly acquainted with the rules and processes of CAP, aops should have the same level of proficiency when it comes to running the chat
  492. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat>      and throw in some "leading discussion" stuff to make it a little less subjective.
  493. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat>      Woody makes a great hop imo
  494. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Zt> ^
  495. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat>      as he identifies bad behavior, warns/punishes appropriately, etc.
  496. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Phwnemon>   For example, birkal can flip between discussing "mollux night" and bsr ratings and policy so he'd be fit for aop
  497. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat>      yep
  498. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Birkal>     aww
  499. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Birkal>     :>
  500. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Phwnemon>   Not that you couldn't be a sop js~
  501. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <SgtWoodsy>  wow
  502. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <SgtWoodsy>  he's trying to demote you
  503. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat>      we just havent gotten to sops yet!
  504. [01/30/13 | 23:55] <Zt> lol
  505. [01/30/13 | 23:56] <Phwnemon>   So an aop is a person who meets qualifications for hop and can go toe-to-toe with the best of them when it comes to actual CAP debate
  506. [01/30/13 | 23:56] <Zt> *Can be better than them.
  507. [01/30/13 | 23:56] <DetroitLolcat>      I like that definition, though I have trouble making the distinction between hop and aop
  508. [01/30/13 | 23:57] *    Mdevil (~Mdevil@synIRC-844606D3.nrflva.fios.verizon.net) has joined #cap
  509. [01/30/13 | 23:57] <Phwnemon>   Best of them being a turn of phrase
  510. [01/30/13 | 23:57] <Phwnemon>   Not referring to hops
  511. [01/30/13 | 23:57] <Zt> Don't forget that an aops must be able to recognize potential vops and able to promote them too.
  512. [01/30/13 | 23:57] <jas61292>   I kind of disagree. I think competence in all discussion is necessary, but I don't think they need to be amazing debaters.
  513. [01/30/13 | 23:57] <DetroitLolcat>      I mean, I just see aops being more experienced hops.
  514. [01/30/13 | 23:57] <Phwnemon>   Nope, promotions are left to sops
  515. [01/30/13 | 23:57] <DetroitLolcat>      can't aops promote to voice?
  516. [01/30/13 | 23:57] <Steamroll>  on default chans yes
  517. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <Phwnemon>   Yes but that doesn't mean we need to let them
  518. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <Steamroll>  considering doug runs this shit
  519. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <DetroitLolcat>      is this a default chain?
  520. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <jas61292>   I think AOps should be on the lookout for voices, but I do think that they should apeal to SOps before doing so
  521. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <Steamroll>  he probably modded it so only sop+ can promote
  522. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <Yilx>       createjustapokemon
  523. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <Steamroll>  like what pokemon has
  524. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <Phwnemon>   Jas can kickban me he never will
  525. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <DetroitLolcat>      <-- knows very little about IRC btw
  526. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <jas61292>   try me
  527. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <jas61292>   :P
  528. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <Zt> <jas61292> I think AOps should be on the lookout for voices, but I do think that they should apeal to SOps before doing so
  529. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <Zt> Agreed
  530. [01/30/13 | 23:58] <Phwnemon>   My point being just because you have power doesnt mean you use it
  531. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll>  [23:58:55] <Zt> <jas61292> I think AOps should be on the lookout for voices, but I do think that they should apeal to SOps before doing so
  532. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll>  [23:58:57] <Zt> Agreed
  533. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <Phwnemon>   Yes only sops can promote
  534. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll>  so basically
  535. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll>  PS system
  536. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <DetroitLolcat>      then there isn't a difference between hops and aops from a purely technical standpoint.
  537. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll>  of finding vops
  538. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <jas61292>   pretty much
  539. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <Phwnemon>   Jas, my goal here is for aops to set the standard of how to conduct yourself in a real debate
  540. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <DetroitLolcat>      I think one way of looking at this is
  541. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll>  logical falicies
  542. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll>  alwayys work
  543. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <DetroitLolcat>      Aops are to hops as voices are to regular users
  544. [01/30/13 | 23:59] <Phwnemon>   Instead of the more social chatter of hops and vops
  545. [01/31/13 | 00:00] <Phwnemon>   I don't think so, lolcat
  546. [01/31/13 | 00:00] <Zt> Since there's no difference between power levels, aops are better competitors than hops in a nutshell?
  547. [01/31/13 | 00:00] <Phwnemon>   Unless you're referring to power wise
  548. [01/31/13 | 00:00] <jas61292>   debate is only part of what happens here though. I don't think we should value debate over discussion. I think general competence is what is needed, not specific skill
  549. [01/31/13 | 00:00] <SgtWoodsy>  no there are differences between hops and aops
  550. [01/31/13 | 00:00] <DetroitLolcat>      well, debate is much more difficult than discussion
  551. [01/31/13 | 00:00] <Phwnemon>   Jas, hops are a perfectly good role model of non-serious discussion
  552. [01/31/13 | 00:00] <DetroitLolcat>      and CAP is just as debate based as it is discussion based, if not more so
  553. [01/31/13 | 00:00] <Phwnemon>   And semi-serious discussion
  554. [01/31/13 | 00:01] <Phwnemon>   But in the end, this channel is about debate
  555. [01/31/13 | 00:01] <Phwnemon>   Debate about the latest cap
  556. [01/31/13 | 00:01] <Phwnemon>   About whether to yea or nay QD on aurum
  557. [01/31/13 | 00:01] <DetroitLolcat>      We have plenty of fun discussions such as "beedrill is scarier than pinsir", but #cap exists as a way to discuss the CAP project in real time
  558. [01/31/13 | 00:01] <Phwnemon>   What dlc said
  559. [01/31/13 | 00:01] <DetroitLolcat>      and though both are important to CAP culture, the latter is more important.
  560. [01/31/13 | 00:01] <Yilx>       vary riksy
  561. [01/31/13 | 00:02] <jas61292>   I agree. I'm just saying that leadership is about more than simply debate
  562. [01/31/13 | 00:02] <Phwnemon>   Oh i agree but only sops have real "leadership" imo
  563. [01/31/13 | 00:02] <Zt> "Being able to listen is better than just being able to speak"?
  564. [01/31/13 | 00:02] <Phwnemon>   Everyone else is mostly a role model
  565. [01/31/13 | 00:02] <Phwnemon>   Some who can kick but mostly a role model
  566. [01/31/13 | 00:03] <Phwnemon>   Only sops can delegate for example
  567. [01/31/13 | 00:03] <Phwnemon>   W
  568. [01/31/13 | 00:03] <DetroitLolcat>      There is one other thing, though
  569. [01/31/13 | 00:03] <Phwnemon>   And only sops can set the channel
  570. [01/31/13 | 00:03] <DetroitLolcat>      Aops can kick and discipline hops, right?
  571. [01/31/13 | 00:03] <Phwnemon>   Tone for a channel*
  572. [01/31/13 | 00:03] <Phwnemon>   Yes lolcat but it should never happen
  573. [01/31/13 | 00:03] <DetroitLolcat>      theoretically it shouldn't.
  574. [01/31/13 | 00:03] <jas61292>   disciple in general should not be an issue
  575. [01/31/13 | 00:04] <Phwnemon>   If they're getting disciplined they probably shouldnt be hops lol
  576. [01/31/13 | 00:04] <Phwnemon>   Discipline is hardly on the table
  577. [01/31/13 | 00:04] <Zt> Not sholdn't Pwne - wouldn't in the first place.
  578. [01/31/13 | 00:04] <DetroitLolcat>      Yes, that's why I see aops as a kind of "oversight committee"
  579. [01/31/13 | 00:04] <jas61292>   In my time as HOp I have done actual OP actions (other than a joke kick) twice.
  580. [01/31/13 | 00:04] <DetroitLolcat>      Aops can make sure hops and the like are doing their jobs.
  581. [01/31/13 | 00:04] <Phwnemon>   Again i think that should mostly be the role of the sop
  582. [01/31/13 | 00:04] <Phwnemon>   Sops are true leaders, aops are just true role models
  583. [01/31/13 | 00:05] <Zt> But I think Aops should be given a role in leading as observation for pormotion.
  584. [01/31/13 | 00:05] <DetroitLolcat>      In terms of quantity of users, how many sops and aops will there be?
  585. [01/31/13 | 00:05] <Zt> Much like projmods are given to test a user before forum mods.
  586. [01/31/13 | 00:06] <DetroitLolcat>      As if there are few sops, then aops will have to take on the role of leader when there are no sops on
  587. [01/31/13 | 00:06] <Zt> ^
  588. [01/31/13 | 00:06] <Phwnemon>   I think probably two or three sops, two or three aops, three or four hops, around 5-10 voice?
  589. [01/31/13 | 00:06] <DetroitLolcat>      and given the small size of our IRC community, for sop to be a truly meaningful rank, there can't be more than 2-3 of them.
  590. [01/31/13 | 00:06] <DetroitLolcat>      probably 3 tbh.
  591. [01/31/13 | 00:06] <Phwnemon>   Oh but if we have the mods all be sops which i still find perfectly fair, we only really need one other sop
  592. [01/31/13 | 00:06] <DetroitLolcat>      eh, specifics can wait.
  593. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <Phwnemon>   If any
  594. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <DetroitLolcat>      how many mods are there?
  595. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <Phwnemon>   Six
  596. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <Zt> Numbers isn't that great a factor imo - not when we're all subjectively measuring what position a user should be.
  597. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <jas61292>   ^^^
  598. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <Phwnemon>   Zt has a point
  599. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <DetroitLolcat>      yes he does...
  600. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <jas61292>   if we are putting numbers on levels we are doing it wrong
  601. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <jas61292>   (other than QOp)
  602. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <DetroitLolcat>      right... (there are 6 cap mods???)
  603. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <DetroitLolcat>      I thought there were like 4
  604. [01/31/13 | 00:07] <Birkal>     yes
  605. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <Zt> So can we agree that aops to sops are similar to how projmods are to forum mods?
  606. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <DetroitLolcat>      hmm
  607. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <Phwnemon>   No
  608. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <jas61292>   And I am still personally against the whole auto SOp for mods. Nothing against them, but it sends the wrong idea, imo
  609. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <DetroitLolcat>      No
  610. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <Zt> Argh :(
  611. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <DetroitLolcat>      I see hops:aops as projmods:mods
  612. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <Phwnemon>   Because a) thats not how pmods even work
  613. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <Steamroll>  that was like #pokemon with
  614. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <Steamroll>  promoting tiering leaders to sops
  615. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <DetroitLolcat>      not that I know how project mods work in all honesty.
  616. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <Phwnemon>   And b) aops are still just role models, but sops are real leaders
  617. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <Steamroll>  tried to spark discussion
  618. [01/31/13 | 00:08] <Steamroll>  and instead it just killed overall activity
  619. [01/31/13 | 00:09] <Phwnemon>   Like, you could sit at aops for your entire life
  620. [01/31/13 | 00:09] <DetroitLolcat>      why did it kill overall activity btw?
  621. [01/31/13 | 00:09] <Phwnemon>   If you were a great contributor but bad at really /leading.
  622. [01/31/13 | 00:09] <Phwnemon>   /
  623. [01/31/13 | 00:09] <Zt> So can I say Sops are for people like R_D when he's sober?
  624. [01/31/13 | 00:09] <Phwnemon>   Sops is people who we trust to run the channel
  625. [01/31/13 | 00:09] <DetroitLolcat>      no, R_D is drops remember?
  626. [01/31/13 | 00:09] <Zt> Emphasis on "sober".
  627. [01/31/13 | 00:09] <DetroitLolcat>      :P
  628. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll>  [00:09:20] <DetroitLolcat> why did it kill overall activity btw?
  629. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll>  because none of the sops ever talked
  630. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Kadew>      sops are sober operators?
  631. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Phwnemon>   Who we defer to their judgment on who's a good candidate for promotion, discipline, and direction
  632. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Zt> Drunk ops is a fitting title, too.
  633. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <DetroitLolcat>      oh shit kadew
  634. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll>  basically did a #smogon
  635. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <DetroitLolcat>      i think you're on to something!
  636. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Phwnemon>   Rd was no fun sober tho
  637. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Birkal>     man I liked R_D better when he was drunk
  638. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll>  a lot of people sitting around with status
  639. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Birkal>     to be honest
  640. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Phwnemon>   Same birj
  641. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll>  intimidated people
  642. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Zt> Yeah, Kadew nailed it spot-on.
  643. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Phwnemon>   Birk
  644. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll>  and died
  645. [01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll>  we need eops
  646. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Steamroll>  for enebriated operators
  647. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Phwnemon>   Jellicent?
  648. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <DetroitLolcat>      *inebriated iirc
  649. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Fusxfaranto>        *inebriated
  650. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Steamroll>  o
  651. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <DetroitLolcat>      iops
  652. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Fusxfaranto>        :[
  653. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Steamroll>  ihops
  654. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Phwnemon>   Lol
  655. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <DetroitLolcat>      ^^^
  656. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Steamroll>  well hops can work
  657. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Steamroll>  hammered operators
  658. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Phwnemon>   Hammered
  659. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <DetroitLolcat>      man i haven't been to ihop in forever
  660. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <jas61292>   Status should really be based on who doees stuff here. I know all mods talk some, and are probably all HOp+ quality (and should be so they can update the topic), but I don't think they are all what we want as SOps
  661. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <Phwnemon>   Ninjas
  662. [01/31/13 | 00:11] <DetroitLolcat>      those are sooooo goooooo pancakes
  663. [01/31/13 | 00:12] <DetroitLolcat>      but if i am ever a hop there will be no pancakes
  664. [01/31/13 | 00:12] <DetroitLolcat>      ONLY BANCAKES
  665. [01/31/13 | 00:12] <Phwnemon>   I agree jas
  666. [01/31/13 | 00:12] <Phwnemon>   Because to be a sop you really need to be engaged in the channel's activities
  667. [01/31/13 | 00:12] <DetroitLolcat>      I agree as well jas
  668. [01/31/13 | 00:12] <Phwnemon>   And know what's going down
  669. [01/31/13 | 00:12] <Zt> Okay, recap on aops, if anyone is less hungry than I am? (hunger wears my mind out)
  670. [01/31/13 | 00:13] <Phwnemon>   Aops are the great role models - they contribute well in social chatter and serious chatter and they're not dicks
  671. [01/31/13 | 00:14] <Zt> Pretty much meaning they're hops who are better than most hops on competitive discussion and debates?
  672. [01/31/13 | 00:14] <Phwnemon>   Yep
  673. [01/31/13 | 00:14] <Phwnemon>   And sops - do we all agree that they're active, have a firm grasp on the personalities they're dealing with in the channel, are trusted and available?
  674. [01/31/13 | 00:14] <DetroitLolcat>      fine by me :D
  675. [01/31/13 | 00:14] <DetroitLolcat>      and now we get to qops
  676. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <DetroitLolcat>      to be a qop
  677. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <Phwnemon>   Doug
  678. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <Phwnemon>   That was easy
  679. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <DetroitLolcat>      you have to know Doug's password
  680. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <Zt> Done.
  681. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <Phwnemon>   Yes
  682. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <Steamroll>  watch doug's qop password be like
  683. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <jas61292>   You have to be Doug. (Or tennis, technically)
  684. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <Steamroll>  fidgit
  685. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <Birkal>     you know the password is Doug, right?
  686. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <Steamroll>  or dogjustdog
  687. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <Birkal>     Doug.   Just Doug.
  688. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <DetroitLolcat>      lol
  689. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <jas61292>   lol
  690. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <DetroitLolcat>      it's probably "password"
  691. [01/31/13 | 00:15] <Phwnemon>   Can someone with big scrollback on their irc client post this up to the thread with a synopsis?
  692. [01/31/13 | 00:16] *    Oglemi (~Oglemi@synIRC-436D3FAF.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) has joined #cap
  693. [01/31/13 | 00:16] <Zt> Pwne - back to sops, I just wanna say "be always available as possible"
  694. [01/31/13 | 00:16] <Steamroll>  tl;dr this chat is weird as fuck
  695. [01/31/13 | 00:16] <Zt> Usually this would warrant a few sops to cover all timezones, but whatever.
  696. [01/31/13 | 00:16] <Steamroll>  oh btw
  697. [01/31/13 | 00:16] <Steamroll>  I want a tl;dr requirement
  698. [01/31/13 | 00:16] <Steamroll>  for every post above
  699. [01/31/13 | 00:16] <jas61292>   lol
  700. [01/31/13 | 00:16] <Steamroll>  750 words
  701. [01/31/13 | 00:17] <Zt> Steam - you probably should read X-Act's attitude on tl'dr.
  702. [01/31/13 | 00:17] <DetroitLolcat>      now that bmb's gone
  703. [01/31/13 | 00:17] <DetroitLolcat>      that's reasonable
  704. [01/31/13 | 00:17] <Zt> I laughed when I read that OP.
  705. [01/31/13 | 00:17] <DetroitLolcat>      wait so is someone going to c+v the log of this chat?
  706. [01/31/13 | 00:17] <Steamroll>  I did read x-acts policy on it
  707. [01/31/13 | 00:17] <Steamroll>  DLC I'm not lol
  708. [01/31/13 | 00:17] <DetroitLolcat>      yeah I don't know how
  709. [01/31/13 | 00:17] <Steamroll>  an I can scroll back to the time I joined this chan tonight
  710. [01/31/13 | 00:18] <Zt> Not large enough scrollback, so off to lunch.
  711. [01/31/13 | 00:18] <Zt> poof
  712. [01/31/13 | 00:18] *    Zt has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  713. [01/31/13 | 00:18] <DetroitLolcat>      bye
  714. [01/31/13 | 00:18] <DetroitLolcat>      man
  715. [01/31/13 | 00:18] <DetroitLolcat>      after that long discussion
  716. [01/31/13 | 00:18] <DetroitLolcat>      @chanstats
  717. [01/31/13 | 00:18] <ChanStat>   (ChanStats): Channel statistics for #cap can be found by going to http://chanstat.net/stats/synirc/%23cap
  718. [01/31/13 | 00:18] <Phwnemon>   Voice - helpful and friendly, active enough. Hops - voice with a good grasp on the history and status of the cap project. Aops - hops who are also models of behavior in serious debates. Sops - true leaders. All the reqs of an aop, Available and trusted, with charisma and a good idea of what's happening in the channel and a firm grasp of the personalities they're working with
  719. [01/31/13 | 00:18] <Phwnemon>   Agreed?
  720. [01/31/13 | 00:19] <jas61292>   I have 50 thousand lines of scrollback, so I guess I could do it, but I already posted twice in the short thread. Someone else should.
  721. [01/31/13 | 00:19] <Fusxfaranto>        sounds good to me
  722. [01/31/13 | 00:19] <DetroitLolcat>      Gine.
  723. [01/31/13 | 00:19] *    RBG has quit (Quit: )
  724. [01/31/13 | 00:19] <DetroitLolcat>      *Fine
  725. [01/31/13 | 00:19] <Steamroll>  lol jax
  726. [01/31/13 | 00:19] <Steamroll>  *jas
  727. [01/31/13 | 00:19] <Steamroll>  I have about
  728. [01/31/13 | 00:19] <Steamroll>  650000 lines of pokemon chat
  729. [01/31/13 | 00:19] <Phwnemon>   Dlc unfortunately that only updates so often, still not updated for this chat yet
  730. [01/31/13 | 00:19] <DetroitLolcat>      jas could you take the log and PM it to pwnemon me and zt and anyone else?
  731. [01/31/13 | 00:20] <Steamroll>  takes five minutes to load it
  732. [01/31/13 | 00:20] <DetroitLolcat>      oh nvm
  733. [01/31/13 | 00:20] <Steamroll>  also I'm going to bed
  734. [01/31/13 | 00:20] <Steamroll>  night
  735. [01/31/13 | 00:20] <DetroitLolcat>      goodnight :D
  736. [01/31/13 | 00:20] *    Steamroll has quit (Quit: )
  737. [01/31/13 | 00:20] <Phwnemon>   I think there's a character limit on pm/
  738. [01/31/13 | 00:20] <Phwnemon>   He could pb it though
  739. [01/31/13 | 00:21] <Phwnemon>   Well, we worked that out and nobody died in the process o/
  740. [01/31/13 | 00:21] <DetroitLolcat>      then he can still save the log for posterity/future reference right?
  741. [01/31/13 | 00:22] <jas61292>   also, I don't know why I bother having 50000 lines of scrollback its a bitch to c+p from, and I have a log that is much easier to use that goes back til last april
  742. [01/31/13 | 00:22] <DetroitLolcat>      lol
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