TheRedPillDebate

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[08:34] ->> Channel created on 4/5/2013 8:31:48 AM
[08:34] * celocanth13  has joined #trpdebate
[08:34] <@n0c0ntr0l> So
[08:35] <@n0c0ntr0l> where were we
[08:35] * DSparda has joined #trpdebate
[08:35] <DSparda> alright what science are we talking about
[08:35] <tawnii> I want to see the science behind the red pill , you proof
[08:35] <tawnii> as I was saying perr reviewed proof not wikipedia
[08:36] <@n0c0ntr0l> fair enough
[08:36] <@n0c0ntr0l> okay, my first premise is the following
[08:36] <tawnii> peer reviewed even
[08:36] <@n0c0ntr0l> that women are attracted to men who show signs of dominance
[08:36] <@n0c0ntr0l> The alpha male if you will
[08:37] <@n0c0ntr0l> and that they USE more effeminate less dominant males for resources rather than preferring their sperm for conception
[08:37] <@n0c0ntr0l> yes?
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[08:37] <@n0c0ntr0l> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v399/n6738/p df/399741a0.pdf
[08:37] <@n0c0ntr0l> have a read of that paper
[08:37] <DSparda> lol, if they were i wouldn't have my girlfriend. I am in no way an Alpha by your definition
[08:37] <@n0c0ntr0l> sigh
[08:38] <DSparda> and then again being a transsexual I break that anyway
[08:38] <david-me> everyone knows tha
[08:38] <david-me> everyone knows that hormones affect thoughs
[08:38] <david-me> this is true for both man and women
[08:38] <@n0c0ntr0l> you're missing the main point of the paper though
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[08:39] <DSparda> To read this story in full you will need to login or make a payment (see right).
[08:39] <@n0c0ntr0l> women are seeking out men who are displaying signs of more testosterone during their peak conception
[08:39] <@n0c0ntr0l> sorry, forgot, my ip tends to give me a lot of papers free
[08:40] <@n0c0ntr0l> and DSparda your comment is totally anecdotal
[08:40] <tawnii> again where is your full proof ? I always see these "papers" that supposedly exist if you pay for them but you can link to per
[08:40] <@n0c0ntr0l> you're going to argue with a scientific paper that has been cited by 348 other papers
[08:40] <tawnii> peer reviewed articles from major credible universities are free
[08:40] <@n0c0ntr0l> are you fucking for real?!
[08:41] <anon> http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussLA B/pdffiles/prefs_mate_selection_1986_jpsp.pdf
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[08:42] <anon> http://www.epjournal.net/
[08:42] <@n0c0ntr0l> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S10 90513801000666
[08:42] <@n0c0ntr0l> nobody said that beta's do not get girlfriends
[08:42] <@n0c0ntr0l> far from
[08:42] <david-me> BRB, going to go write an atricle
[08:42] <anon> http://www.dmoz.org/Science/Social_Sciences/Psychology/ Evolutionary_Psychology/
[08:42] <@n0c0ntr0l> nobody said beta's do not get girlfriends
[08:42] <DSparda> still can't view the full text without payment
[08:42] <@n0c0ntr0l> i have the full paper
[08:43] <@n0c0ntr0l> i'll reup it to my dropbox for you
[08:43] <anon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blank_Slate
[08:43] <tawnii> The majority of threads in your subreddit are hatred onwomen and how desparaging them and psychologically abusing them isgoing to put that woman in check? Why not just treat everyone as equal human beings?
[08:43] <@n0c0ntr0l> A. it is not about the hatred of women
[08:43] <@n0c0ntr0l> nowhere does redpill mantra express a hatred of women
[08:44] <@n0c0ntr0l> stop with the false causes
[08:44] <RPman> first thread is about a guy who's ex-girlfriend is treating him like crap
[08:44] <RPman> second one is about protests on men's rights being blocked
[08:44] <david-me> BTW, I got banned from #theredpill for making a joke. please unban me
[08:44] <RPman> etc...
[08:44] <RPman> we can go on
[08:44] <RPman> a bunch about articles in the main stream media
[08:44] <anon> desparaging them and psychologically abusing, what kind of abuse are you talking about?
[08:44] * telnet_reddit_80  has joined #trpdebate
[08:45] * n0c0ntr0l sets mode +vvv anon RPman telnet_reddit_80 for #trpdebate
[08:45] <+anon> you wanted scientific research for our theories. we gave you sources and im sure you didnt even read them
[08:45] <david-me> lol
[08:45] <david-me> "Feminism needs to acknowledge beauty and youth play an important role in mate selection for men."
[08:45] <david-me> they do
[08:46] <david-me> they just dont like it
[08:46] <DSparda> okay, i would read them if i had acess to the full paper
[08:46] <+anon> http://www.cep.ucsb.edu/
[08:46] <tawnii> I won;t pay for the articles. Give me real, fact based peer reviewed science to support this biological claim you are selling that is free from a reputable university
[08:46] <@n0c0ntr0l> FULL paper there
[08:46] <+anon> http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussL AB/pdffiles/prefs_mate_selection_1986_jpsp.pdf
[08:46] <+anon> http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussL AB/pdffiles/prefs_mate_selection_1986_jpsp.pdf
[08:46] <+anon> http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussL AB/pdffiles/prefs_mate_selection_1986_jpsp.pdf
[08:46] <+anon> http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussLAB/pdffiles/prefs_mate_selection_1986_jpsp.pdf
[08:46] <@n0c0ntr0l> and its peer reviews
[08:46] <+anon> http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussL AB/pdffiles/prefs_mate_selection_1986_jpsp.pdf
[08:46] <+anon> http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussL AB/pdffiles/prefs_mate_selection_1986_jpsp.pdf
[08:46] <+anon> http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussL AB/pdffiles/prefs_mate_selection_1986_jpsp.pdf
[08:46] <@n0c0ntr0l> annon don't spam
[08:46] <+RPman> tawnii you deny that evolution exists or that is has a continuing role on the imperatives of genders?
[08:47] <david-me> 1986?
[08:47] <@n0c0ntr0l> that paper is peer reviewed
[08:47] <+telnet_reddit_80> tawnii, real, fact-based, peer-reviewed science is usually behind paywalls
[08:47] <+RPman> oh there's a time limit on research is there?
[08:47] <+RPman> what's the cut off?
[08:47] <@n0c0ntr0l> if you have a university ip
[08:47] <@n0c0ntr0l> you get access to the papers for free
[08:47] <+telnet_reddit_80> yeah, you can try local uni library or sth
[08:48] <tawnii> I believe in darwin thank you but I also believe that there is more than one explanation for human behavior as we are not all of the same mold and not everything is as black and white and cookie cutter as you guys make it to be
[08:48] <+telnet_reddit_80> we're all unique snowflakes, we know
[08:48] <@n0c0ntr0l> sigh, thats thats just a gammblers fallacy
[08:48] <@n0c0ntr0l> we human beings are the same
[08:48] <@n0c0ntr0l> you are not special
[08:49] <@n0c0ntr0l> and on the whole we follow the same behaviourpatterns
[08:49] <tawnii> beta meta alpha crap seriously we are all humans but weall deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Disrespecting womenand treating them like crap is not the way to go
[08:49] <+RPman> as i was saying to orly: he forebrain developed MUCHlater than the hindbrain and influences it in a patched manner.  i.e., itattenuates the signals that come from our instinctual/primal areas, it does not rewrite them
[08:49] <+anon> we are all part of the same species and while there are minor differences we are th same for the most part
[08:50] <+RPman> that's how evolution works, it patches the new on topof the old, it does not redesign
[08:50] <+anon> beta meta alpha crap seriously we are all humans but weall deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Disrespecting women and treating them like crap is not the way to go
[08:50] <@n0c0ntr0l> dignity and respect are earned tawnii
[08:50] <@n0c0ntr0l> not given
[08:50] <+anon> then why are men treated like shit who are "nice" abut those who dont get laid?
[08:50] <@n0c0ntr0l> that applies for men and women alike
[08:50] <DSparda> anon: are you really talking about that friendzone bullshit?
[08:50] <+telnet_reddit_80> anon is just trolling now
[08:51] <+anon> a little
[08:51] <DSparda> More than likely because she's not attracted to you
[08:51] <@n0c0ntr0l> yes, BUT WHY
[08:51] <+RPman> we agree
[08:51] <+anon> because im nice and not dominant and confident
[08:51] <DSparda> being nice does not mean you're going to get pussy at the end of the night
[08:51] <@n0c0ntr0l> it is the WHY
[08:51] <DSparda> are you stupid
[08:51] <+anon> being nice and a push over is not attractive
[08:51] <+RPman> again strawman
[08:51] <+RPman> being entitled to pussy is a feminist strawman
[08:51] <@n0c0ntr0l> DSparda no adhominem please
[08:52] <+anon> exactly, why and what is attractive to woman is the question
[08:52] <+RPman> being owed and entitled to sex is all strawman
[08:52] <@n0c0ntr0l> i don't want to see any personal attacks in here
[08:52] <DSparda> you're acting like being nice to a woman means you're entitled to sex regardless to if she's attracted to you
[08:52] <+RPman> nobody said that
[08:52] <tawnii> Have you guys read The Feminine Mystique?
[08:52] <@n0c0ntr0l> please, where have ANY of us said that
[08:52] <@n0c0ntr0l> we would NEVER say that
[08:52] <+anon> what is attractive to woman and why is the question we are interested ion
[08:52] <+RPman> and see this is the problem
[08:52] <DSparda> [10:50:22] <+anon> then why are men treated like shit who are "nice" abut those who dont get laid?
[08:52] <+RPman> you strawman and don't budge
[08:53] <@n0c0ntr0l> did he say that being nice ENTITLES him to sex
[08:53] <@n0c0ntr0l> i don't think he did
[08:53] <+anon> yes, why are man getting laid who do not put woman on a pedestal?
[08:53] <+RPman> nice does not entitle them to anything.  They do not feel entitled.
[08:53] <DSparda> I don't know, i've been called a nice guy and I get laid. but I guess that's ancedotal too right?
[08:53] <@n0c0ntr0l> we didn't say a nice guy will NEVER get sex
[08:54] <@n0c0ntr0l> this is not absolutes
[08:54] <+anon> you started of with asking for scientific research, we give you that and now you are derailing somewhere
[08:54] <+RPman> it's all talking points
[08:54] <@n0c0ntr0l> moving goalposts
[08:54] <@n0c0ntr0l> but lets let it fly
[08:54] <DSparda> sorry about that.
[08:54] <+RPman> nice guys are assholes and should be shamed.  That's the latest talknig point
[08:54] <+RPman> so let's get on it
[08:54] <+anon> be specific, what is it that you dont like
[08:54] <+anon> SPECIFIC
[08:54] <@n0c0ntr0l> nah, RPman don't put words in his mouth
[08:54] <@n0c0ntr0l> let em speak
[08:54] <+anon> what was said in TRP that you dont like
[08:54] <+anon> someting SPECIFIC
[08:55] <DSparda> Anyway, back to this scientific evidence
[08:55] <tawnii> RPMan its not about entitlement, it's about treating people how you wish to be treated and then you will get the same respect in return but if you guys think its ok to treat women like crap and be "alpha" all the time then you have no clue
[08:55] <+RPman> you associate alpha with crap, not us
[08:55] <+RPman> you can still be a good guy and have alpha qualities
[08:56] <@n0c0ntr0l> well RPman speaks for himself, I freely admit, Itreat most women like shit, I sleep with them a few times and never text/call them again
[08:56] <tawnii> RPman no, according to what you guys are spouting it is all or nothing you can't be a mixture of any biological way . It is only one way
[08:56] * ltd (~lel@user/brdwatcher) has joined #trpdebate
[08:56] <@n0c0ntr0l> its funny how its those girls that always clamour for my attention
[08:57] <@n0c0ntr0l> no
[08:57] <+anon> i still dont see a specific statement that would prove whatever you accuse us of
[08:57] <@n0c0ntr0l> we talk about alpha behaviours
[08:57] <@n0c0ntr0l> and beta behaviours
[08:57] <@n0c0ntr0l> naturally if someone displays a certain amount of one or the other
[08:57] <+RPman> the core of alpha is what?  Assertive, confident, social proof, leadership, strength.
[08:57] <@n0c0ntr0l> they will be labled
[08:57] <+RPman> does that naturally imply being an asshole?
[08:57] <tawnii> alpha beta meta, again we are all HUMAN and each of usis in fact different
[08:58] <@n0c0ntr0l> we are not that different
[08:58] <+telnet_reddit_80> the point is that women like sexists, cads,and assholes; and it's not some anecdotal story about how DSparda gotlaid once but solid science:
[08:58] <+telnet_reddit_80> http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLanding &doi=10.1037/a0028498
[08:58] <+telnet_reddit_80> http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comment s/1b8xdb/science_be_more_sexist_live_the_good_life/
[08:58] <DSparda> lol.
[08:58] <tawnii> well some of you have some qualities and some of you don't that is the definition of DIFFERENT
[08:59] <+RPman> so you deny that our primal imperatives play a role in our modern decision making as genders?
[08:59] <+anon> what exactly is so different? is your brain completelydifferent from mine? are you wired differently?
[08:59] <+RPman> because that seems to be the core of it all
[08:59] <+telnet_reddit_80> and there's plenty of stuff proven in our subhttp://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/search?q=flair%3A%27theory%27+scie nce&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all
[08:59] <DSparda> being on both sides of this shit, as in being a womanand now being a male, the sexist pricks ran me off faster than anything. but if that's what you want to believe go for it
[08:59] <+telnet_reddit_80> to which you have no comeback
[08:59] <+telnet_reddit_80> beyond some "everybody's different"
[09:00] <+telnet_reddit_80> which is also why that debate will go nowhere
[09:00] <+RPman> you can't debate feelings
[09:00] <DSparda> and telnet_reddit_80 try gettign laid every weekend for4 months, dry spell now is because I'm in a committed relationship. and won't cheat on my girl
[09:00] <tawnii> RPman yes, it's the 21st century no more cave men ughugh. Humanshave evolved and are constantly evolving hence the term evolution and we are forever changing and adapting and growing
[09:00] <+telnet_reddit_80> DSparda, dry spell _because_ you;re in a committed relationship? that doesn't even make sense
[09:00] <@n0c0ntr0l> we haven't changed that much
[09:00] <@n0c0ntr0l> tawnii we are a young species
[09:00] <+anon> so after millions of years all the genetic mutations just disapeared
[09:01] <+RPman> and so you postulate that the very recent developmentof the human forebrain has competely taken over our millions of years oldhindbrain influences?
[09:01] <@n0c0ntr0l> RPman you beat me to it
[09:01] <+telnet_reddit_80> and, just to back up my third point, chicks digabusive jerks http://www.epjournal.net/articles/female-attraction-to-appetitive-aggressive-men-is-modulated-by-womens-menstrual-cycle-and-mens-vu lnerability-to-traumatic-stress/
[09:01] <DSparda> telnet_reddit_80: long distance relationship.
[09:01] <@n0c0ntr0l> okay, I would like to put a question to you guys
[09:01] <+telnet_reddit_80> again, science
[09:01] <+anon> POOF and we are all exactly the same after thousends ofgenerations of evolution and genetic mutations everything just reversed back and we are a sexles species
[09:01] <+RPman> to which I disagree as it implies a redesign of humans, instead of an adaptive patch work
[09:01] <@n0c0ntr0l> waht do you think women find attractive
[09:01] <@n0c0ntr0l> i do not want what YOU find attractive
[09:01] <@n0c0ntr0l> i mean COLLECTIVELY
[09:02] <@n0c0ntr0l> (even though i always say don't ask the fish how to catch fish, ask the fisherman)
[09:02] <tawnii> n0c0ntr0l anon RPman show me neuralogical proof because what you guys are spouting is refutable
[09:02] <+RPman> of the development of the human brain?
[09:02] <@n0c0ntr0l> you want proof that the mammalian brain is in control of the frontal lobe?
[09:02] <+anon> http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-fem ale-brains-differ
[09:02] <@n0c0ntr0l> coming up
[09:02] <tawnii> yes, show me since you all seem to have PHds in the subject
[09:03] <@n0c0ntr0l> we've clearly done a lot more reading on the subject than you at least
[09:03] <+telnet_reddit_80> tawnii, you got three links already
[09:03] <+telnet_reddit_80> tawnii, did you even clikc them?
[09:03] <+telnet_reddit_80> tawnii, or are you just trolling for attention?
[09:03] <@n0c0ntr0l> http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v5/n7/abs/nrn14 32.html
[09:03] <@n0c0ntr0l> read that one
[09:03] <@n0c0ntr0l> and again
[09:04] <@n0c0ntr0l> if you can't download it
[09:04] <@n0c0ntr0l> (and it is peer revciewd)
[09:04] <@n0c0ntr0l> i will download and reup to my dropbox for you
[09:04] <+anon> http://cs.nyu.edu/~ylan/files/malesFemales05.pdf
[09:04] <tawnii> No, I am not trolling I have been respectful which is more than I can say for you guys
[09:04] <@n0c0ntr0l> ahahaha, i've been called stupid twice already
[09:05] <@n0c0ntr0l> you are the guys throwing out ad hominem attacks
[09:05] <+telnet_reddit_80> tawnii, but you haven't been, you didn't respect the time we took to provide you with those materials and at least skim them
[09:05] <tawnii> I personally have attacked no one
[09:05] <@n0c0ntr0l> I've been perfectly respectable about YOU as people, only chasing your arguments
[09:05] <+RPman> and so, we can analyze any one issue from the contextof the evolution of the cortex.  nice guy shaming, pick up shaming, etc... We would postulate that women have a hardwired response to be very fearful of unfit mates because the cost of procreation for a woman is severe.
[09:06] <+RPman> and so she has a very warranted fear, but this fear is now manifested in shaming
[09:06] <tawnii> I I have not even had time to look at these articles without being attacked by the lot of you
[09:06] <@n0c0ntr0l> we have NOT attacked you
[09:06] <@n0c0ntr0l> we have attacked your statements
[09:06] <@n0c0ntr0l> there is a difference
[09:06] <@n0c0ntr0l> we do not make ad hominem points
[09:06] <+anon> the only thing you people said so far is: you are wrong and you hate woman
[09:07] <@n0c0ntr0l> well that and your paper is old
[09:07] <@n0c0ntr0l> anyway tawnii, http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v 5/n7/abs/nrn1432.html
[09:07] <+RPman> because humans have evolved a lot since the 80s don't you know
[09:07] <@n0c0ntr0l> can you access that paper for download?
[09:08] <+RPman> and this is how it goes.  We present falsifiable claims and back them up with research.  Which is then cast aside.
[09:08] <tawnii> 2004 and its a blurb which could mean context of anything
[09:08] <+anon> http://www.functionalneurology.com/common/php/portier e.php?ID=1edbbdfc303deac87943d8c5249c8e80
[09:08] <+RPman> and then context
[09:09] <+RPman> if you take any paper and say "out of context", then why even bother with science or stats at all right?
[09:09] <tawnii> [09:09] <+RPman> if you take any paper and say "out of context", then
[09:10] <tawnii> to read this article in full you need to log in and make a payment
[09:10] * Schadmobile has joined #trpdebate
[09:10] <@n0c0ntr0l> k
[09:10] <tawnii> ad nauseum
[09:10] <@n0c0ntr0l> i'll add the paper to dropbox
[09:10] <@n0c0ntr0l> :)
[09:10] <+anon> what about this http://www.functionalneurology.com/co mmon/php/portiere.php?ID=1edbbdfc303deac87943d8c5249c8e80
[09:10] <+anon> no payment needed
[09:10] <+RPman> they've listed several papers that are open access I believe
[09:10] <+anon> yes
[09:10] <+RPman> so your retort is that the abstract is not enough?
[09:11] <Schadmobile> Sorry I'm late, I'm so beta I had to go to workinstead of listening to you sick fucks justify spousal rape.
[09:11] <+anon> but one wasnt free so thats an excuse to not read the rest
[09:11] <tawnii> Errore 404
[09:11] <tawnii> La pagina richiesta non è stata trovata
[09:11] <tawnii> http://www.functionalneurology.com/co%20mmon/php/po rtiere.php?ID=1edbbdfc303deac87943d8c5249c8e80
[09:11] <+RPman> hey Shad, you're the only one for the last hour that has said that word
[09:11] * Schadmobile was kicked by n0c0ntr0l Reason (no ad hominem attacks in here, next one is a banm)
[09:11] <@n0c0ntr0l> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2324204/nrn1432.pdf
[09:11] * Schadmobile has joined #trpdebate
[09:11] <@n0c0ntr0l> tawnii reuploaded the paper for you
[09:12] <Schadmobile> Big man with the kick you rapist shit
[09:12] * n0c0ntr0l sets mode +b for #trpdebate
[09:12] * Schadmobile was kicked by n0c0ntr0l Reason (Schadmobile)
[09:12] <+RPman> so sad, because a discussion of rape culture could actually be useful
[09:12] <+RPman> but he doesn't want it
[09:12] <@n0c0ntr0l> i would love to discuss it
[09:12] <@n0c0ntr0l> sigh
[09:12] <@n0c0ntr0l> you know what this needs
[09:13] <@n0c0ntr0l> people to go away
[09:13] <@n0c0ntr0l> and actually have a premise to debate over
[09:13] <@n0c0ntr0l> with a proper moderator
[09:13] <@n0c0ntr0l> and time taken
[09:13] <DSparda> I wouldn't. because I have a feeling y'all are the type of people that will say men can't be raped
[09:13] <+RPman> what?
[09:13] <@n0c0ntr0l> what?
[09:13] <+RPman> why would WE take that position?
[09:13] <@n0c0ntr0l> when have we ever said that
[09:13] <@n0c0ntr0l> why would we hold such a view
[09:13] <@n0c0ntr0l> you see
[09:14] <@n0c0ntr0l> you project ideals that aren't even true onto us
[09:14] <DSparda> because it was obviously the man's fault for not beingassertive enough to say no?
[09:14] <+RPman> in fact, the sexual assult of men is a huge area ofconcern for me that is largely never addressed
[09:14] <+RPman> in fact just today I was reading a government mandated study on violence and genders
[09:15] <+RPman> to quote: "However, for male victims of sexual assault,the proportion of those victimized in an institutional setting (16%) such asa school, university or college or other non-commercial or corporate placewas more than 2.5 times greater than the proportion of females sexually assaulted in this type of location"
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[09:15] <+RPman> this is not an opinion.  this is based on police reports btw
[09:15] <n0c0> damn where are you guys all even coming from
[09:15] <+anon> if a man doesnt say no and doesnt DO anything that would communicate that he is not conensting he isnt raped
[09:15] <+RPman> male sexual assult goes largely unreported and that's a serious issue that needs to be addressed
[09:15] <+anon> unless hes not consious
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[09:16] <+RPman> but moreover, violence against males, which isuniversally higher than against females, goes largely unaddressed, and that's frightening
[09:16] <n0c0> RPman welcome to the pussy pass
[09:17] <n0c0> women get a free ride on a ton of shit
[09:17] <n0c0> just look at criminal convictions
[09:17] <n0c0> drown your two kids
[09:17] <celocanth13> ...
[09:17] <n0c0> 10 months
[09:17] <n0c0> we are moving goal posts
[09:17] <n0c0> AGAIn
[09:17] <n0c0> can we please stick to one point
[09:17] <+RPman> ya I'm just discussing various topics
[09:18] <+RPman> since no specific questions are being asked
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[09:18] <+RPman> and I'm trying to paint a larger picture of the dismissal of facts and research
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