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Jun 6th, 2012
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  1. [19:56] * [WM]szeweningen (Mibbit@mib-3BFE3E48.bemowonet.pl) has joined #WarLight
  2. [19:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo [WM]VaporX [WM]VaporX
  3. [19:57] <[WM]VaporX> made it in time.
  4. [19:57] <[WM]szeweningen> no, it'll start in an hour
  5. [19:57] <[WM]szeweningen> I was just checking out if it is crowded in here
  6. [19:58] <[WM]szeweningen> I remined everyone on the forum
  7. [19:58] <Kingu> hey guys
  8. [19:58] <[WM]VaporX> doesn't matter, I'm here for a while
  9. [19:58] <Kingu> what's up?
  10. [19:58] <hangblague[WL]> Too bad, I'll only be able to take in about 20 minutes.  Thanks for doing this, Szeweningen.
  11. [19:59] <Kingu> ooo the strategic 1v1 course
  12. [20:00] <[WM]szeweningen> I think I'll do a video commentary later this week
  13. [20:00] <Kingu> is it going to be high-end strategy?
  14. [20:00] <[WM]szeweningen> I tried to do it during a real0time game with evreux, but audio was bad and internet failed in the meantime
  15. [20:00] <[WM]szeweningen> depends
  16. [20:01] <[WM]szeweningen> I'll try to explain some intuition first, then I'll try to analyse specific moves
  17. [20:01] * bunes[WL] (Mibbit@mib-733D11E5.mimer.net) has joined #WarLight
  18. [20:01] <[WM]szeweningen> I very rarely try to use game-theory in practice
  19. [20:01] <Kingu> you're learned in game theory?
  20. [20:02] * bunes[WL] (Mibbit@mib-733D11E5.mimer.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  21. [20:02] <[WM]szeweningen> yeah, I had an obligatory semester on economics + semester of a monographic lecture on mathematics
  22. [20:02] <[WM]szeweningen> what does that house near my nick mean?
  23. [20:02] <Kingu> nice
  24. [20:03] * vostro[WL] (Mibbit@E26DEE5F.C05113E2.23078CB0.IP) has joined #WarLight
  25. [20:03] <[WM]szeweningen> I mean Vapor's name
  26. [20:03] <Kingu> oh
  27. [20:03] <vostro[WL]> am i late .
  28. [20:03] <vostro[WL]> ?
  29. [20:03] <Kingu> that means he's the channel founder
  30. [20:03] <[WM]szeweningen> no, you are early
  31. [20:03] <vostro[WL]> oh ok then
  32. [20:03] <[WM]szeweningen> it'll start in an hour
  33. [20:03] <vostro[WL]> ok
  34. [20:03] <Kingu> so he has all mod privileges
  35. [20:03] <Kingu> and can op/de-op people etc
  36. [20:03] <[WM]szeweningen> is there a possibility to view earlier chat?
  37. [20:04] <Kingu> what client are you using?
  38. [20:04] <[WM]szeweningen> what do you mean?
  39. [20:04] <vostro[WL]> i  do not  think so @szeweningen
  40. [20:04] <Kingu> IRC client
  41. [20:04] <Kingu> I take it you're using the mibbit thingy
  42. [20:04] <[WM]szeweningen> I just put in google Chrome chat.aspx and it worked :)
  43. [20:05] <[WM]szeweningen> yeah, it is mibbit
  44. [20:05] <Kingu> well, mibbit works, but there are better options in my opinion
  45. [20:05] <Kingu> I'm using mIRC, which is good
  46. [20:05] <Kingu> it's not freeware though
  47. [20:05] <Kingu> if you're running Firefox you can use something like Chatzilla as well
  48. [20:06] <Luxisapex> Is it not? To me it cries 'please donate', but I never have to.
  49. [20:06] <Kingu> well, that's true
  50. [20:06] <[WM]VaporX> im back.
  51. [20:06] <Kingu> IIRC I once bought it for cheap
  52. [20:06] <[WM]VaporX> you cant view older chat in irc.mibbit.net regardless of your client used to view it.
  53. [20:07] <[WM]VaporX> the server simply doesn't save it
  54. [20:07] <Kingu> mIRC saves my logs
  55. [20:07] <Kingu> as much as I want it to save
  56. [20:07] <[WM]VaporX> really?
  57. [20:08] <Kingu> sure
  58. [20:08] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) has joined #WarLight
  59. [20:09] <vostro[WL]> it would be awesome if  we  guys would be having webcam chat ...
  60. [20:09] <Kingu> it saves on your computer, doesn't download it from the server
  61. [20:09] <[WM]VaporX> mibbit needs to update their information then. They say on their website you can't.
  62. [20:09] <Luxisapex> But probably only at the time you are in the chatroom, right?
  63. [20:09] <Kingu> well, that's a given
  64. [20:09] <[WM]szeweningen> I don't have the connection good enough for webcam
  65. [20:09] <vostro[WL]> :(
  66. [20:09] <[WM]szeweningen> but I'll make a video commentary and post it on youtube
  67. [20:10] <Luxisapex> I believe that what the others want is the availability to look through chat they didn't see before.
  68. [20:10] <vostro[WL]> nice.
  69. [20:10] <Kingu> then I have one answer: lurk moar
  70. [20:10] <Kingu> :P
  71. [20:10] <[WM]VaporX> just hit /away [reason] istead of leaving the IRC
  72. [20:11] <[WM]VaporX> type to come back from being away
  73. [20:11] * Heyheuhei[WL] (Mibbit@8424D173.C69C8C0E.4EDF04A1.IP) has joined #WarLight
  74. [20:12] <Kingu> it's best to just have your IRC client running in the background and check the logs every once in a while
  75. [20:13] <[WM]szeweningen> probably on friday
  76. [20:14] <[WM]VaporX> do you know if X or noobschool's showing up sze?
  77. [20:16] <[WM]szeweningen> no really
  78. [20:18] <hangblague[WL]> Can you give an idea of how you will proceed today?  Are we watching a map and this chat at the same time?
  79. [20:18] <[WM]szeweningen> hi HHH
  80. [20:18] <[WM]szeweningen> what are you doing here?
  81. [20:18] <[WM]szeweningen> unless you want one of our games to be chosen ;)
  82. [20:19] <JRussellMikkelsen> Sooooo.... when's this start? And what can we call you for short? Sze? Weni?
  83. [20:19] <[WM]szeweningen> I'll give you a link to a game and I'll analyse it turn by turn
  84. [20:19] <Kingu> you can type the first few characters of his name then press 'TAB' to have it auto-finish it for you
  85. [20:19] <[WM]VaporX> so this is starting in approx. 40 minutes?
  86. [20:20] <[WM]VaporX> thats only Mirc
  87. [20:20] <Kingu> works in mibbit too
  88. [20:21] <[WM]VaporX> not if you type [wm] =P
  89. [20:21] <Kingu> you guys make your names too complicated :P
  90. [20:22] <[WM]szeweningen> also what is important (and unfortunately is not implemented as a hisotry view option) you must "imagine" the fog
  91. [20:22] <[WM]szeweningen> yeah, in 40 minutes I'll ask who is here, maybe make a few minutes of introduction and go straight to analysis
  92. [20:22] <[WM]szeweningen> after each turn you can ask questions
  93. [20:22] <[WM]szeweningen> although not all of them are very important
  94. [20:23] <vostro[WL]> http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/581143_427749630571096_2059513368_n.jpg        
  95. [20:23] <vostro[WL]> http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/581143_427749630571096_2059513368_n.jpg
  96. [20:23] <[WM]VaporX> I'll be back then, I might be a minute or 2 late.
  97. [20:24] <[WM]VaporX> =P
  98. [20:24] <[WM]VaporX> nice vostro
  99. [20:24] * Segrain (Mibbit@6EB8E8C9.98F10766.69D5EB8D.IP) has joined #WarLight
  100. [20:28] * JRussellMikkelsen2 (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) has joined #WarLight
  101. [20:29] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  102. [20:29] <[WM]VaporX> number 2?
  103. [20:29] <JRussellMikkelsen2> I got booted out
  104. [20:29] <JRussellMikkelsen2> And it said my nick was already taken!
  105. [20:29] <[WM]VaporX> use /nick [newnick] to change back
  106. [20:29] <JRussellMikkelsen2> I don't know what that means, Vapor.
  107. [20:30] <[WM]VaporX>  /nick [newnick]
  108. [20:30] * JRussellMikkelsen2 is now known as Jujy
  109. [20:30] <Jujy> Cool
  110. [20:30] <hangblague[WL]> You weren't booted, you were shifted down to idler.  You were the one who had "taken" it.
  111. [20:30] <[WM]VaporX> put whatever you want your name to be within the [ ]
  112. [20:30] <Jujy> It told me that I'd signed out
  113. [20:30] <Jujy> And it said, "reconnect?"
  114. [20:30] <Kingu> you timed out or something
  115. [20:31] <Jujy> WHen I clicked reconnect it said my nick was taken
  116. [20:31] * Jujy is now known as J
  117. [20:31] * J is now known as JRussellMikkelsen
  118. [20:31] <Widzisz[apex]> your clone will disappear after some time I think
  119. [20:31] <JRussellMikkelsen> I guess spaces aren't allowed
  120. [20:32] <vostro[WL]> is here any one who is an active  yahoo  answer  user ?
  121. [20:32] <JRussellMikkelsen> It seems gone already, isn't it, Wid?
  122. [20:32] <JRussellMikkelsen> So, Where's Weni?
  123. [20:32] <[WM]szeweningen> how can I "unidle" myself?
  124. [20:32] <[WM]VaporX> weni?
  125. [20:32] <[WM]szeweningen> oh, ok ;)
  126. [20:32] <Luxisapex> You type
  127. [20:32] <[WM]VaporX> =P
  128. [20:32] <JRussellMikkelsen> Our teacher
  129. [20:33] <JRussellMikkelsen> Weni seems like the easiest nick name to call him
  130. [20:33] <[WM]VaporX> never heard him callde "Weni" before =P
  131. [20:33] <[WM]szeweningen> yeah, Gui made a ton of nicknames, but never weni
  132. [20:33] <[WM]VaporX> sze what would you like to be called.
  133. [20:33] <[WM]szeweningen> whatever you feel like
  134. [20:33] <JRussellMikkelsen> That's you, szeweni!
  135. [20:33] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  136. [20:34] <Widzisz[apex]> Anyway, is that tutorial one of a kind event? Or will you make it again in the near future szewen?
  137. [20:34] <[WM]szeweningen> sze, Peter, szeweningen does not matter
  138. [20:34] <[WM]VaporX> alright I'll be back in 25 minutes, need to switch from school too home.
  139. [20:34] <hangblague[WL]> I'm going with ngen. Just kidding.
  140. [20:34] <[WM]VaporX> dont do any trolling while I'm gone =P
  141. [20:34] <[WM]szeweningen> I will make a video commentary and post it on youtube
  142. [20:34] <[WM]szeweningen> I don't think I'll make more of those on chat
  143. [20:34] <[WM]szeweningen> it will sacrifice some time
  144. [20:35] <[WM]VaporX> i can voice you and mute the channel if you'd like
  145. [20:35] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) has joined #WarLight
  146. [20:35] <[WM]VaporX> so only you can talk
  147. [20:35] <[WM]szeweningen> and I am planning on quitting warlight in the future around july
  148. [20:35] <Widzisz[apex]> :(
  149. [20:35] <JRussellMikkelsen> I'm calling him Weni.
  150. [20:35] <[WM]VaporX> =(
  151. [20:35] <JRussellMikkelsen> I bet you are.
  152. [20:36] <[WM]VaporX> alright ceya guys in a bit
  153. [20:37] * Gnullbegg (Mibbit@mib-6F8ED36E.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #WarLight
  154. [20:38] <hangblague[WL]> Knock knock
  155. [20:38] <vostro[WL]> i just locked
  156. [20:38] <Gnullbegg> eevnin
  157. [20:38] <hangblague[WL]> (It's customary to say "Who's there?")
  158. [20:39] <vostro[WL]> the bigger  question is "there or here "
  159. [20:39] * [REGL]min34 (Mibbit@mib-E03D9B0E.cm-7-2a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #WarLight
  160. [20:39] <hangblague[WL]> Nobody's going to humour me?
  161. [20:40] <Gnullbegg> "hey there, we're from the church of the latter day saints - have you heard about THE LORD?"
  162. [20:41] * [WM]VaporX (Mibbit@8FDD6328.EB78076F.5C94692A.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  163. [20:42] <[WM]szeweningen> I am here
  164. [20:42] <[WM]szeweningen> but that's not important for the next 20 minutes at least
  165. [20:42] <[WM]szeweningen> you mean Diablo the dark lord?
  166. [20:42] <[WM]szeweningen> or the lord of the rings?
  167. [20:42] <[WM]szeweningen> never heard of other lords...
  168. [20:42] <Gnullbegg> "you know - we have brochures... with pictures, too!"
  169. [20:43] <vostro[WL]> get something more  funny
  170. [20:44] <Gnullbegg> hey szew how are you going to do this? will you invite those who are interested into a game or...?
  171. [20:45] <[WM]szeweningen> no, i'll do it here
  172. [20:45] <[WM]szeweningen> i'll give you links to games to watch history turn by turn
  173. [20:48] <[REGL]min34> Vostro, can you type with something else than white??
  174. [20:48] <vostro[WL]> feeling sleepy
  175. [20:49] <hangblague[WL]> Knock knock
  176. [20:49] <hangblague[WL]> Who's there?
  177. [20:49] <hangblague[WL]> Hutch
  178. [20:49] <hangblague[WL]> Hutch who?
  179. [20:49] <hangblague[WL]> Gesundheit!
  180. [20:49] <hangblague[WL]> (drum roll to high top cymbal)
  181. [20:49] <Gnullbegg> man war der schlecht :P
  182. [20:49] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  183. [20:49] <Kingu> http://instantrimshot.com/
  184. [20:51] <Gnullbegg> It always amazes how fast people are with copypasting these urls...
  185. [20:51] <Gnullbegg> +me
  186. [20:52] * Gnullbegg (Mibbit@mib-6F8ED36E.unitymediagroup.de) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  187. [20:52] * Gnullbegg (Mibbit@mib-6F8ED36E.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #WarLight
  188. [20:55] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) has joined #WarLight
  189. [20:56] <JRussellMikkelsen> Pretty tough to follow conversations in here when we keep getting idled out
  190. [20:57] * jokken[WL] (Mibbit@mib-96D310F7.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #WarLight
  191. [20:57] <[WM]szeweningen> when you point cursor over someone's nickname it highlights their messages
  192. [20:57] * jokken[WL] (Mibbit@mib-96D310F7.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  193. [20:59] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, i'll wait 10 minutes, after that I'll need to know who is here and who is not
  194. [20:59] * rabies[WL] (Mibbit@mib-96D310F7.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #WarLight
  195. [20:59] <Gnullbegg> +
  196. [20:59] <hangblague[WL]> While I have the chance, I want to say thanks for doing this and I'm sorry I can only stick around for 20 minutes.
  197. [21:00] <hangblague[WL]> Hopefully I'll learn something about picks before I have to disappear.
  198. [21:00] <hangblague[WL]> I'll also look forward to your video.
  199. [21:00] <hangblague[WL]> I would vote for not waiting for 10 minutes.
  200. [21:00] * Heyheuhei[WL] (Mibbit@8424D173.C69C8C0E.4EDF04A1.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  201. [21:01] <[WM]szeweningen> you can leave your computer running with chat open, you'll be able to view all the messages later
  202. [21:02] <[WM]szeweningen> or ask someone to copy paste the chat afterwards to a notepad file
  203. [21:02] <hangblague[WL]> OK - it's your show!
  204. [21:02] <[WM]szeweningen> I was under the impression that [X] guys really wanted that, weird they are not here
  205. [21:03] <Kingu> haha
  206. [21:03] <vostro[WL]> *ting*
  207. [21:04] * rabies[WL] (Mibbit@mib-96D310F7.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  208. [21:04] * [x]Cluster[WL] (Mibbit@mib-96D310F7.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #WarLight
  209. [21:05] <vostro[WL]> where are the warlighters ....
  210. [21:08] <hangblague[WL]> We're here, vostro.  Sze is teaching us patience - that's a critical WL skill.
  211. [21:09] <[WM]szeweningen> ok guys, we should be starting about now
  212. [21:09] <[WM]szeweningen> so who is here now?
  213. [21:09] <Gnullbegg> I am
  214. [21:09] <hangblague[WL]> I am
  215. [21:09] <Kingu> present
  216. [21:09] <[REGL]min34> I also am
  217. [21:09] <vostro[WL]> i am inxxx
  218. [21:09] <[WM]szeweningen> http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2407621
  219. [21:10] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, open that in a separate window or sth
  220. [21:10] <[WM]szeweningen> also while watching history please remember the fog is present, so try to imagine what i could see and what i counldn't during the game
  221. [21:11] <vostro[WL]> done.
  222. [21:12] * [REGL]min34 (Mibbit@mib-E03D9B0E.cm-7-2a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  223. [21:12] <[WM]szeweningen> that difference is critical to understanding risk management when we have finite information about enemy
  224. [21:12] <[WM]szeweningen> we'll go like this, I'll start by analysing each turn and after that you can ask questions if something is not intuitive or plain wrong in your opinion
  225. [21:12] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway let's start with the picks
  226. [21:12] <Kingu> ok
  227. [21:13] <[WM]szeweningen> in abstract the most important things about picking stage are establishing safe income and attacking routes
  228. [21:14] <[WM]szeweningen> that means getting a bonus that you can safely try to grab in the beginning while not losing vital space in other areas
  229. [21:14] <[WM]szeweningen> the first thing you should look at are wastelands
  230. [21:14] <[WM]szeweningen> not only wastelands ruin bonuses, but they have huge impact on adjacent bonuses
  231. [21:15] <[WM]szeweningen> for example imho the wasteland distribution proves the central america and south america combo to be the safest
  232. [21:16] <[WM]szeweningen> antarctica won't be occupied and there is africa open later for further expansion
  233. [21:16] * Kingu has a question
  234. [21:17] <hangblague[WL]> So does Hang
  235. [21:17] * Lolowut[WL] (Mibbit@mib-E93AAF60.lightspeed.tblltx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #WarLight
  236. [21:17] <Kingu> if you let me
  237. [21:17] <Lolowut[WL]> Oi, this is pretty cool.
  238. [21:17] <Lolowut[WL]> Not gonna lie.
  239. [21:18] <Kingu> ssh, you're interrupting class <_<
  240. [21:18] * [WM]VaporX (Mibbit@mib-BA5F7159.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #WarLight
  241. [21:18] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo [WM]VaporX [WM]VaporX
  242. [21:18] <Lolowut[WL]> I'll listen in, no problem
  243. [21:18] <Lolowut[WL]> ^^
  244. [21:18] <[WM]szeweningen> thus I took it with picks 1,2
  245. [21:18] <[WM]szeweningen> one more thing that you should keep in mind, that you shouldn't always grab cluster right away
  246. [21:18] <[WM]szeweningen> for example india is a 1st turn bonus, but the distribution of warlords starters in china made it very risky
  247. [21:18] <[WM]szeweningen> yes?
  248. [21:18] <[WM]szeweningen> Kingu, ask please
  249. [21:18] <[WM]szeweningen> so are you guys asking or not?
  250. [21:19] <Kingu> yeah, why do you think latin america/south america combo is safest when west/east Africa looks safer imo
  251. [21:19] <Kingu> spain and antarctica are out as attacking routes
  252. [21:19] <Kingu> and you have s.america up there for later expansion
  253. [21:19] <Kingu> kind of the other way around
  254. [21:19] <hangblague[WL]> My question:  how great an advantage do you think it is that Bishes knows 2 of your spots and you know none of his?
  255. [21:20] <vostro[WL]> my question is same as kingu
  256. [21:20] <[WM]szeweningen> ah, that is a good question, the reason is connected to further expansion
  257. [21:20] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, first Kingu
  258. [21:20] <[WM]szeweningen> I really think that south america-central america combo vs 2 spots in africa would give me an advantag
  259. [21:21] <[WM]szeweningen> see the problem is I'll get central america before he gets west africa
  260. [21:21] <[WM]szeweningen> so what would happen is probably I would take americas the same turn he would show up in Nigeria
  261. [21:21] <Gnullbegg> my question: in hindsight, given the picks you made, can you think of a combination of picks for bishes to outpick you?
  262. [21:21] <[WM]szeweningen> because Congo is farthest from Ghana
  263. [21:22] <[WM]szeweningen> to hangblague, I think he was lost on turn 1
  264. [21:22] <JRussellMikkelsen> He was lost? Liek mentally lost? Or he lost the game?
  265. [21:22] <[WM]szeweningen> greenland was in his opinion a safe pick (and it was), but it was very risky in terms of further expansion and attack
  266. [21:23] <[WM]szeweningen> I think he was strategically lost after picking stage
  267. [21:23] <Kingu> yeah greenland was a very poor pick imo
  268. [21:23] <Kingu> it's safe, but too large
  269. [21:23] <[WM]szeweningen> with me in americas I had open africa if needed
  270. [21:23] <hangblague[WL]> Thanks, I'm outta here for now, I'll read up later.
  271. [21:24] <[WM]szeweningen> so I think he did not have an advantage
  272. [21:24] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway to Gnullbegg
  273. [21:24] <JRussellMikkelsen> Weni, when you say "he was lost" it is confusing. Because this means that either he's in a place that he doesn't recognize, doesn't know how to find his way home, or that he is confused mentally.
  274. [21:25] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, he was in a lost position
  275. [21:25] * JRussell (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) has joined #WarLight
  276. [21:25] <JRussell> Somehow, I just got booted out
  277. [21:25] <[WM]szeweningen> by which I mean he practically lost the game
  278. [21:25] <JRussell> Now I lost all the old chat
  279. [21:26] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway to Gnulbegg, I don't see a great conuterstrategy
  280. [21:26] <JRussell> Okay. Thanks.
  281. [21:26] <[WM]szeweningen> now returning to what I was saying
  282. [21:26] * Monkey[WL] (Mibbit@mib-A4DD57E5.cm-7-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #WarLight
  283. [21:26] <[WM]szeweningen> it is very nice to view the map as parts divided by wastelands
  284. [21:27] <Monkey[WL]> I just don't see why you would pick latin america
  285. [21:28] <Monkey[WL]> if you take it over
  286. [21:28] <[WM]szeweningen> for example you can see that africa and central-south america can be one part, central-east asia as 2nd
  287. [21:28] <JRussell> He said he picked C & S America because it's isolated
  288. [21:28] <Monkey[WL]> yh, but i got to agree with kingu that africa is better
  289. [21:29] <Kingu> just let the man give his talk ok?
  290. [21:29] <Monkey[WL]> sure, but i just think the armies are out of the main direction when you take it over
  291. [21:29] <Kingu> vapor, maybe it's handy if you mute the channel and give sze voice while he's talking
  292. [21:30] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  293. [21:30] <Kingu> that way, he won't be interrupted
  294. [21:30] <vostro[WL]> :D
  295. [21:30] <[WM]VaporX> I'll do what sze wants.
  296. [21:30] <JRussell> Go on, Weni.
  297. [21:31] * [WM]x (Mibbit@mib-EE4D0C65.bb.sky.com) has joined #WarLight
  298. [21:31] <[WM]szeweningen> @Monkey, to get a safe bonus there
  299. [21:31] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, I'll tell you what happens with africa vs america
  300. [21:31] <[WM]szeweningen> actually that game is a perfect example they are not
  301. [21:31] <[WM]szeweningen> you'll see that later
  302. [21:31] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway returning to the topic
  303. [21:31] <[WM]szeweningen> early picks should focus on safe income
  304. [21:31] <[WM]szeweningen> so first thing to do is to identify parts of the map and get safe early income
  305. [21:31] <[WM]szeweningen> a rule of thumb should be that if you have no direct contact with the enemy starting, you should get 8-9 income in 2 turns, 12-13 in 3
  306. [21:32] <[WM]szeweningen> you should also keep in mind that you can safely get a 4 income bonus in 2 turns only by a cluster
  307. [21:33] <[WM]szeweningen> it gives you like >93% chance
  308. [21:33] <[WM]szeweningen> I counted it a while ago
  309. [21:33] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway later picks should be always viewed in pair with earlier pick
  310. [21:33] <[WM]szeweningen> for example if you pick 1,2 you should be concerned that opponent also picks 1,2 there
  311. [21:33] <[WM]szeweningen> you'd both get part of americas
  312. [21:33] <[WM]szeweningen> since I considered greenland irrelevant, I tried 3,4 as a possible safe income in case he gets one of the picks in america
  313. [21:34] <JRussell> What? That's not true. You can get a 4 bonus in two turns without clustering. I just did it today.
  314. [21:34] <Kingu> not 100% safe
  315. [21:34] <JRussell> Oh, you reliably. Got it. Sorry.
  316. [21:34] <Kingu> it depends on your losses
  317. [21:34] <[WM]szeweningen> depends
  318. [21:34] <JRussell> Right. Sorry.
  319. [21:35] <[WM]szeweningen> you can get it pretty reliably, but unless you have a cluster elsewhere, it won't let you get to 12-13 in 3 turns
  320. [21:35] <JRussell> right
  321. [21:35] * JRussell is now known as JRussellMikkelsen
  322. [21:36] <[WM]szeweningen> for example here on 2nd turn I could inveest 2 more in russia
  323. [21:36] <[WM]szeweningen> oh, btw. that rule of thumb applies only to maps with no 1st turn bpnus
  324. [21:36] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway picks 3 and 4 were for possible safe income so I could get for example picks 2,3,4
  325. [21:38] <Kingu> your 6 pick is weird
  326. [21:38] * Evreux[WL] (Mibbit@AC233050.66142E67.FC76C53D.IP) has joined #WarLight
  327. [21:38] <[WM]szeweningen> I could clluster russia and pressure him early in america
  328. [21:38] <[WM]szeweningen> also central russia was a great spot allowing me to get to west russia and india bonuses easily
  329. [21:38] <[WM]szeweningen> pick 5 is sth you should just fill in
  330. [21:38] <[WM]szeweningen> if yuo get 5, that means that you have exactly one of pick 1,2 and one of pick 3,4
  331. [21:38] <[WM]szeweningen> yes, 6th pick is weird, but i'll explain it
  332. [21:38] * pineapple (Mibbit@mib-F193B925.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #WarLight
  333. [21:39] <[WM]szeweningen> actually east africa is a great candidate for 5th pick
  334. [21:40] <[WM]szeweningen> but here I was concerned about him picking 1,2 in russia, 3,4 americas, 5 africa
  335. [21:40] <[WM]szeweningen> I mean 5,6 africa
  336. [21:40] <[WM]szeweningen> that was a pretty probable strategy and I didn't want to lose ground in asia
  337. [21:41] <[WM]szeweningen> so 5th pick was to get safe income when I don't have any of my clusters
  338. [21:41] <[WM]szeweningen> so I could finish china first, then pressure america if possible
  339. [21:41] <[WM]szeweningen> 6th pick is rarely a choice
  340. [21:42] <[WM]szeweningen> an easy exercise is "what do I get if I need 6th pick and lose my 1st"
  341. [21:42] <Kingu> 6th pick means you also have 2 and 3
  342. [21:42] <Widzisz[apex]> nope
  343. [21:42] * Franco (Mibbit@mib-A024A21.int3.itelcel.com) has joined #WarLight
  344. [21:43] <Widzisz[apex]> if you get your 6th you will get 2 out of your 1,2,3
  345. [21:43] <Kingu> yeah, true
  346. [21:44] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  347. [21:44] <[WM]szeweningen> in that scenario you get picks 2,3,6, opponent your 1,4,5
  348. [21:44] <[WM]szeweningen> if you don't lose 1st, situation is a bit more complicated, but similar
  349. [21:44] <[WM]szeweningen> yes, but if you lose your 1st, you get 2,3
  350. [21:44] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway here it was pretty obvious that any possible strategy I get 6th pick would be each of us having one in russia and one in americas
  351. [21:44] <[WM]szeweningen> and it was a pick of exclusion
  352. [21:44] * JRussellMikkelsen[WL] (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) has joined #WarLight
  353. [21:44] <JRussellMikkelsen[WL]> I'm booted out every minute. This is annoying.
  354. [21:44] <[WM]szeweningen> indonesia, greenland, china were worse
  355. [21:44] <[WM]szeweningen> east africa was also possible
  356. [21:44] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway that's about the picks, questions?
  357. [21:45] <Evreux[WL]> game link?
  358. [21:45] * JRussellMikkelsen[WL] is now known as JRussellMikkelsen
  359. [21:45] <[WM]szeweningen> we're not doing it very swiftly it seems :)
  360. [21:45] <[WM]szeweningen> http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2407621
  361. [21:45] <[WM]szeweningen> not an interesting game for you Evreux
  362. [21:46] <Evreux[WL]> about to go to bed. curious about this.
  363. [21:46] <JRussellMikkelsen> Nothing interests the mighty Evreaux
  364. [21:46] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, no questions so off to turn 1
  365. [21:46] <Gnullbegg> yeah I've got one: your first 3 came through - where did you guess bishes was?
  366. [21:46] <JRussellMikkelsen> Only curious what peons think is interesting
  367. [21:47] <vostro[WL]> *ting*  if  anyone  missed  previous  talks  ,    you can check them out here  http://vostro-notepad.blogspot.in/
  368. [21:47] <[WM]szeweningen> I thought that east china+africa+russia were probable
  369. [21:48] <[WM]szeweningen> maybe indonesia+australia+africa
  370. [21:48] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway, turn 1 was not very interesting
  371. [21:48] <[WM]szeweningen> I had no intel, thus I did not move in russia
  372. [21:48] <JRussellMikkelsen> Thank you Vostro.
  373. [21:48] <[WM]szeweningen> I attacked brasil, so that I could see africa on the following turn if needed
  374. [21:49] <[WM]szeweningen> and I moved troops into colombia to finish SA the following turn
  375. [21:49] <Kingu> q
  376. [21:49] <[WM]szeweningen> I did not spread troops, because I knew that troops from CA would take venezuela
  377. [21:50] <[WM]szeweningen> and I wanted to take it with 4vs2 only
  378. [21:50] <Kingu> question
  379. [21:50] <[WM]szeweningen> taking 4vs2 has many advantages, not only there is no risk of not taking a territory, but also there are always leftover troops to lose orders on
  380. [21:50] <[WM]szeweningen> yes?
  381. [21:50] <Kingu> alright
  382. [21:51] <Kingu> one: why do you move to brasil turn 1 if you know he's not going to get in nigeria that same turn
  383. [21:51] <Kingu> you could do that a turn later
  384. [21:51] <[WM]szeweningen> move order was not relevant in this turn
  385. [21:52] <Kingu> two, you can also 3v2 someting in turn 1 when you're not going to expand there further (argentina in this case), why do you opt against that?
  386. [21:52] <[WM]szeweningen> I go into braisl so tha I have access to bolivia
  387. [21:52] * [WM]x (Mibbit@mib-EE4D0C65.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  388. [21:52] <[WM]szeweningen> because I want to conserve leftover troops
  389. [21:52] <Kingu> but then you can also take argentina turn 1 then move brasil turn 2
  390. [21:52] <[WM]szeweningen> the plan was take SA first, then russia, then CA
  391. [21:52] <Kingu> I understand
  392. [21:52] <Salahad-Din> hey
  393. [21:53] <[WM]szeweningen> yeah, in case he had a weird plan of going to Nigeria, I could get some intel
  394. [21:53] <Kingu> but you'll be left with troops in argentina turn 2
  395. [21:53] <Salahad-Din> what r u doing here :)
  396. [21:53] <[WM]szeweningen> does not matter, I wouldn't need them anyway on the following turn
  397. [21:53] <Gnullbegg> the way szew did it loses fewer armies on average and he could put any leftovers in arg to use easily (as he did in the game)
  398. [21:53] <Kingu> you'll have them in brasil sooner
  399. [21:54] <[WM]szeweningen> the plan was to take SA first, then push russia, take it if possible, then take CA
  400. [21:54] <Kingu> in case he _would_ be in nigeria
  401. [21:54] <[WM]szeweningen> you will see that SA leftover troops are moving in position right on time
  402. [21:54] <Kingu> alright
  403. [21:54] <Kingu> but I would've taken argentina ^_^
  404. [21:54] <[WM]szeweningen> in case he would be in nigeria, I would definitely have income advantage, so I could afford tranferring them
  405. [21:55] <[WM]szeweningen> not really that important
  406. [21:55] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway now take a look at Bishes's moves on turn 1
  407. [21:55] <[WM]szeweningen> he tried a very risky line that went horribly wrong
  408. [21:56] <[WM]szeweningen> not only did he not use 4vs2 in india to move into position to take it the following turn, he tried to get greenland, which cost him at least 4 troops if counted conservatively
  409. [21:56] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway, turn 2
  410. [21:56] <[WM]szeweningen> I just take SA and attack in russia last order
  411. [21:56] * JRussellMikkelsen[WL] (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) has joined #WarLight
  412. [21:57] <[WM]szeweningen> I attacked in russia to scout for him in west russia, and did it last order in case he tried the same
  413. [21:57] <[WM]szeweningen> also i knew that at worst we'd have the same income
  414. [21:57] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway, turn 3
  415. [21:57] <Salahad-Din> hey transfer to afrika with last order plz
  416. [21:58] <[WM]szeweningen> ?
  417. [21:58] <Widzisz[apex]> lol
  418. [21:58] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway...
  419. [21:59] * Rubies (Cluster@mib-96D310F7.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #WarLight
  420. [21:59] <[WM]szeweningen> now I had free troops, because I wouldn't finish central america in one turn
  421. [21:59] <[WM]szeweningen> also a note:
  422. [21:59] * Rubies (Cluster@mib-96D310F7.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Quit: Verlassend)
  423. [21:59] <[WM]szeweningen> you could go for a more agreesive line
  424. [21:59] <Kingu> still convinced you could've taken SA in a more optimal way
  425. [21:59] <Kingu> where your armies end up in brazil instead of argentina
  426. [22:00] <Kingu> but eh, doesn't matter
  427. [22:00] <[WM]szeweningen> you would be right if I took the aggresive line
  428. [22:00] <[WM]szeweningen> on turn 2 3 attacks of 3vs3 and 3vs3 in mexico
  429. [22:00] <[WM]szeweningen> that could enable me to take CA faster
  430. [22:00] <Kingu> no, that's not what I mean
  431. [22:01] <[WM]szeweningen> and in that line you'd be right, troops in brasil would be helpful there
  432. [22:01] <Widzisz[apex]> 3vs2*
  433. [22:01] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  434. [22:01] <[WM]szeweningen> btu i wasn't going to do this
  435. [22:01] <[WM]szeweningen> yes, 3vs2
  436. [22:01] <[WM]szeweningen> my reasoning behind this is very simple
  437. [22:02] <[WM]szeweningen> if it does not improve your position strategically, it only gives you net 3 troops
  438. [22:02] <[WM]szeweningen> while you risk a lot in the process
  439. [22:02] <[WM]szeweningen> missing russia, mexico, negative net income
  440. [22:03] <Kingu> alright alright
  441. [22:03] <Kingu> continue
  442. [22:03] <[WM]szeweningen> also taking 4vs2 has the advantage of always leaving some troops behind, which is very important mid-game when you need some orders to lose
  443. [22:03] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, on turn 3 I just took russia and moved into position with my troops
  444. [22:03] * Ribena[WL] (Mibbit@mib-DBA78AB5.bb.sky.com) has joined #WarLight
  445. [22:03] <[WM]szeweningen> to take central america in 2 turns
  446. [22:03] * [x]Cluster[WL] (Mibbit@mib-96D310F7.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  447. [22:04] <[WM]szeweningen> at this point I was positive that hitting Xinjiang early would be beneficial for me
  448. [22:04] <[WM]szeweningen> either he tried india, or I could scout via Tibet
  449. [22:05] <[WM]szeweningen> worst case sceario for me, he'd have africa + australia + indonesia
  450. [22:05] <[WM]szeweningen> if I wouldn't see anything in china, I would strike africa next turn hard
  451. [22:05] * Ribena[WL] (Mibbit@mib-DBA78AB5.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  452. [22:05] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway turn 4
  453. [22:06] <[WM]szeweningen> the only thing to ask is should attacking xinjiang be first or last
  454. [22:07] <[WM]szeweningen> if there was only 2 on the neutral there, I'd attack 1st, because 9vs6 is not that convincing, but with 4 I was positive that if he had attacked 4 neutral, being on defense would not compensate neutral territory damage
  455. [22:07] <Salahad-Din> one more tip from me about picking, just think like USA. find a bonus in map which will be far from your enemy. then try to have military bases which will help u break your enemy's bonuses
  456. [22:07] <[WM]szeweningen> on the end of the turn I was pretty convinced I was better
  457. [22:08] <[WM]szeweningen> yeah, that's pretty much the idea I gave :)
  458. [22:09] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, turn 5 is in many games very important, because it ends expansion phase and gives you a reinforcement card
  459. [22:10] * Ribena[WL] (Mibbit@mib-DBA78AB5.bb.sky.com) has joined #WarLight
  460. [22:10] <Ribena[WL]> Evreux u there?
  461. [22:10] <[WM]szeweningen> here I was ahead since I was already at his gates with many strategic possibilities
  462. [22:11] <[WM]szeweningen> I was ahead at the border and i was sure I would force my way down his bonuses if I got last order
  463. [22:11] <[WM]szeweningen> since there were no OD cards in play, I needed to burn as many orders as possible
  464. [22:11] <[WM]szeweningen> also leftover armies from america let me deploy only 2 there
  465. [22:11] * [WM]x (Mibbit@mib-EE4D0C65.bb.sky.com) has joined #WarLight
  466. [22:12] <[WM]szeweningen> all the attacks were performed last
  467. [22:12] * [WM]x (Mibbit@mib-EE4D0C65.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  468. [22:12] <Kingu> question
  469. [22:12] <Kingu> well nothing you could have changed
  470. [22:12] <[WM]szeweningen> I attacked tibet with 4, Pakistan with rest
  471. [22:13] <Kingu> but I'm wondering why Bishes didn't blockade thailand turn 8
  472. [22:13] <[WM]szeweningen> It was very unlikely that I'd get significant negative net income on pakistan
  473. [22:13] <[WM]szeweningen> yes?
  474. [22:13] <Kingu> and how would you have responded?
  475. [22:13] <[WM]szeweningen> can't be sure of his reasoning
  476. [22:13] <Kingu> I know
  477. [22:14] <[WM]szeweningen> maybe he thought he could've stopped me somehow
  478. [22:14] <Evreux[WL]> he should have blockaded.
  479. [22:14] <[WM]szeweningen> I think I'd just go through the blockade
  480. [22:14] <Salahad-Din> where is the link
  481. [22:14] <[WM]szeweningen> although I have a game with breaking wastelands next, so...
  482. [22:14] <[WM]szeweningen> http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2407621
  483. [22:14] <[WM]VaporX> http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2407621
  484. [22:14] <[WM]szeweningen> yeah, he probably should have blockaded, but it wouldn't change the outcome
  485. [22:15] <[WM]szeweningen> worst case scenario for me:
  486. [22:15] <[WM]szeweningen> he blockades india
  487. [22:15] <[WM]szeweningen> goes to west us to break CA
  488. [22:15] <Evreux[WL]> but even if he did blockade thailand, the number of troops needed to do it would've made the total troop totals so much in szewen's favor that the game was over anyway
  489. [22:15] <[WM]szeweningen> I defend lightly CA, take caucasus and prepare to take india
  490. [22:15] <Kingu> it was over on the first turn, I know
  491. [22:15] <[WM]szeweningen> easy to see that he couldn
  492. [22:16] <[WM]szeweningen> couldn't attack me afterwards
  493. [22:16] <[WM]szeweningen> I would take india anyway
  494. [22:16] <Kingu> but if he'd have blocakded thailand, then you'd at least have invested a lot more income there
  495. [22:16] <Salahad-Din> good picks for bishes but very bad start
  496. [22:16] <[WM]szeweningen> really Salah?
  497. [22:16] <[WM]szeweningen> those were good?
  498. [22:17] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway, we're off-topic
  499. [22:17] <Salahad-Din> yeah
  500. [22:17] <Salahad-Din> he just started bad
  501. [22:17] <Salahad-Din> if he would wait 1 more turn for greenland he could win
  502. [22:19] <Salahad-Din> since he didnt do this he lost game at turn 2
  503. [22:20] <[WM]szeweningen> attacking tibet comes before pakistan, because if he attacks me first, and I counter pakistan, the attack on tibet wouldn't happen
  504. [22:20] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, turn 6
  505. [22:20] <[WM]szeweningen> now that I break his bonus, I gain momentum over him
  506. [22:20] <[WM]szeweningen> so I can capitalise on the income advantage and/or net income
  507. [22:20] <[WM]szeweningen> since we get OD cards, I really want to use them to clear asia and cut him off as much as possible
  508. [22:20] <Salahad-Din> look at picks he know your 2 picks too
  509. [22:20] <[WM]szeweningen> obvoiusly in his position re-taking pakistan makes no sense
  510. [22:21] <[WM]szeweningen> so I shouldn't be worried of him taking it
  511. [22:21] <[WM]szeweningen> the biggest threat is of course him attacking central russia
  512. [22:21] <[WM]szeweningen> the most effective way is through eastern kazachstan
  513. [22:21] <[WM]szeweningen> and possibly through Xinjiang
  514. [22:22] <[WM]szeweningen> also when players try to gain access to opponents territories they spend more on routes you already have
  515. [22:23] <[WM]szeweningen> so it was very probable that an attack on Xinjiang was going to be harder than kazachstan
  516. [22:23] <[WM]szeweningen> now, when using OD card, you have to see what attacks/transfers you have to make before playing the card and which can wait
  517. [22:24] <[WM]szeweningen> transfers for defensive purposes should always be made before (unless it is obvious the opponent will use OD card and you have no more orders tu burn)
  518. [22:24] * AceWindu[WL] (Mibbit@86977FFD.31D439D5.433CA72.IP) has joined #WarLight
  519. [22:25] <[WM]szeweningen> here only 2 of my orders had to be made, and the more significant should be 1st
  520. [22:25] * Ribena[WL] (Mibbit@mib-DBA78AB5.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  521. [22:25] <[WM]szeweningen> fortunately for me, he did attack eastern kazachstan and not kyrgystan and I was able to clear him
  522. [22:26] <[WM]szeweningen> I left 8 in pakistan, because in case he predicted me to do it, he might have left some troops in india
  523. [22:26] <[WM]szeweningen> it is a personal choice what you decide to counter, I countered against 4 troops
  524. [22:27] <[WM]szeweningen> because if he attacked 3vs8 I could still recounter effectively with both attack
  525. [22:27] <[WM]szeweningen> *attacks
  526. [22:27] <[WM]szeweningen> and I was positive I would get last order this turn
  527. [22:28] <[WM]szeweningen> on turn 7 I decided I only need to push him hard, because I have a lot of troops at the border
  528. [22:28] <[WM]szeweningen> also when you have income advantage you want to push your opponent for 2 reasons
  529. [22:28] <[WM]szeweningen> 1st to change your income advantage into breaking opponents bonuses
  530. [22:29] <[WM]szeweningen> 2nd you want to keep the stack of troops low
  531. [22:29] <[WM]szeweningen> if you let your opponent deploy too many troops on the border, it is harder for you to get net income from it
  532. [22:29] <Monkey[WL]> q
  533. [22:29] * Franco (Mibbit@mib-A024A21.int3.itelcel.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  534. [22:30] <[WM]szeweningen> yes?
  535. [22:30] <Monkey[WL]> turn 7
  536. [22:30] <Monkey[WL]> if i was in the shoes of bishes
  537. [22:30] <Gnullbegg> i'd surrender^^
  538. [22:30] <Monkey[WL]> i would have seen that i prob need to blockade tailand
  539. [22:30] <Monkey[WL]> but i would have 2 turns to do so
  540. [22:31] <Monkey[WL]> so i would put everything in the attack on central russia
  541. [22:31] <Monkey[WL]> in your case with all the advantage you had
  542. [22:31] <Monkey[WL]> would have been killed if that happened
  543. [22:31] <Monkey[WL]> i would never delay the 7 attack
  544. [22:31] <Monkey[WL]> and would have attacked with more
  545. [22:32] <Kingu> plus, the delay you make there is overkill
  546. [22:32] <[WM]szeweningen> yes, I would do that to, but there was one reason I didn;t
  547. [22:32] <[WM]szeweningen> I mean I would delay either way
  548. [22:32] <Monkey[WL]> you would sac your stack
  549. [22:32] <[WM]szeweningen> the delay made me clear tadschikistan for sure
  550. [22:33] <Monkey[WL]> and would be up against a 14 stack
  551. [22:33] <Monkey[WL]> with all stack out of possition
  552. [22:33] <Monkey[WL]> walking towards a blockade
  553. [22:33] * JRussellMikkelsen[WL] (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  554. [22:33] <Monkey[WL]> at least that would be my move if i was bishes
  555. [22:33] * JRussellMikkelsen[WL] (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) has joined #WarLight
  556. [22:34] <Kingu> heh, I am convinced that you can always think of a series of moves that perfectly counters whatever you think of
  557. [22:34] <[WM]szeweningen> the problem was I couldn't be sure if he was going to attack eastern kazachstan
  558. [22:34] <[WM]szeweningen> kyrystan was also a possibility
  559. [22:34] <Monkey[WL]> nah that you could block
  560. [22:34] <[WM]szeweningen> if he had put all his troops in kazachstan, I couldn't kill him either way
  561. [22:34] <[WM]szeweningen> but in the scenario you are picturing
  562. [22:35] <[WM]szeweningen> he'd be in eastern kazachstan with 6-7 troops on turn 7
  563. [22:35] <Monkey[WL]> i would make sure he would walk into your stack
  564. [22:35] <[WM]szeweningen> with 14 income
  565. [22:35] <Monkey[WL]> since you had the first move
  566. [22:35] <[WM]szeweningen> and he'd have to make a blockade
  567. [22:35] <[WM]szeweningen> I didn't want him to walk into my stack
  568. [22:35] <Monkey[WL]> yh but blockade can be done with 3 of his income
  569. [22:35] <Kingu> well, the blockade doesn't have to be large to keep you off
  570. [22:35] <[WM]szeweningen> because if he had attacked kyrgyzstan, that would make more of my troops useless
  571. [22:35] <[WM]szeweningen> and the problem is the blockade has to be large
  572. [22:36] <Monkey[WL]> not really
  573. [22:36] <Monkey[WL]> enough to keep you off
  574. [22:36] <[WM]szeweningen> because I could easily sacrifice russia and take india in return otherwise
  575. [22:36] * jokken[WL] (Mibbit@mib-96D310F7.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #WarLight
  576. [22:36] <Kingu> and waste what, three turns of its income?
  577. [22:36] <Kingu> in losses
  578. [22:36] <[WM]szeweningen> Monkey, please look at turn 7
  579. [22:36] <Monkey[WL]> i wouldn't walk over for sure
  580. [22:36] <Monkey[WL]> yh i did
  581. [22:36] <Monkey[WL]> the way i would play it
  582. [22:37] <[WM]szeweningen> with your moves as Bishes, it's pretty much the same except you are in eastern kazachstan with 5-6
  583. [22:37] <[WM]szeweningen> how big of a blockade would you make?
  584. [22:37] <Monkey[WL]> you would have like 10 stack first turn on Eastern Kazakhstan
  585. [22:37] <Kingu> 4x3.5
  586. [22:37] <Kingu> that's enough
  587. [22:37] <[WM]szeweningen> no, Bishes would have
  588. [22:37] <Monkey[WL]> yup that would be mine too
  589. [22:37] <Monkey[WL]> at least 10
  590. [22:38] <[WM]szeweningen> you said that bishes should attack kazachstan
  591. [22:38] <Monkey[WL]> maybe even more
  592. [22:38] <Kingu> you'll burn 9 armies walking through then
  593. [22:38] <[WM]szeweningen> against my moves that would change into:
  594. [22:38] <Monkey[WL]> if he would walk into it
  595. [22:38] <Monkey[WL]> he couldn't take it
  596. [22:38] <Monkey[WL]> that is only concern
  597. [22:38] <Kingu> that's three times india's income
  598. [22:38] <Monkey[WL]> defend next move if he walked the other one
  599. [22:38] * batmanashhha (Mibbit@mib-E1B4DDFC.home3.cgocable.net) has joined #WarLight
  600. [22:38] <[WM]szeweningen> but he could have attacked kyrgystan
  601. [22:38] <Monkey[WL]> attack with all on eastern russia and done
  602. [22:38] <Monkey[WL]> i mean transfer
  603. [22:38] * batmanashhha (Mibbit@mib-E1B4DDFC.home3.cgocable.net) has left #WarLight
  604. [22:38] <Monkey[WL]> that stack is still a defend stack
  605. [22:39] <Kingu> but it's as I'm saying, there is no perfect always-win strategy
  606. [22:39] <Kingu> there's always a counter for everything you do
  607. [22:39] <Monkey[WL]> yh true
  608. [22:39] <Monkey[WL]> but it would be so much safer
  609. [22:39] <JRussellMikkelsen[WL]> Is this a debate between Kingu and Monkey?
  610. [22:39] <Monkey[WL]> the way you played now was risky
  611. [22:39] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, Monkey please listen to me for a minute
  612. [22:39] <[WM]szeweningen> it wasn't risky
  613. [22:39] <[WM]szeweningen> suppose you knew my moves as Bishes and you did what you wanted
  614. [22:40] <[WM]szeweningen> attacked eastern kazachstan full-power
  615. [22:40] <[WM]szeweningen> now look at the beginning of turn 7
  616. [22:40] <[WM]szeweningen> and what would change is:
  617. [22:40] <Monkey[WL]> i would have done that in any case if i was bishes
  618. [22:40] <[WM]szeweningen> Bishes having 6-7 eastern kazachstan
  619. [22:40] <[WM]szeweningen> me having 10 leftover troops in xinjiang
  620. [22:41] <[WM]szeweningen> now tell me how big a blockade yould you make in india
  621. [22:41] <AceWindu[WL]> Hey J, link to the game?
  622. [22:41] <Kingu> http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2407621
  623. [22:41] <[WM]VaporX> http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2407621
  624. [22:41] <JRussellMikkelsen[WL]> :)
  625. [22:41] <AceWindu[WL]> cool, thanks guys :)
  626. [22:41] <Kingu> no prob
  627. [22:41] * Segrain (Mibbit@6EB8E8C9.98F10766.69D5EB8D.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  628. [22:41] <Kingu> overanalyzing games is fun ^_^
  629. [22:41] <[WM]szeweningen> the problem is with position at hand he would either have to make a blockade too weak or not break russia
  630. [22:42] <Monkey[WL]> more like 11 in eastern kazachstan
  631. [22:42] <[WM]szeweningen> lol, 9 at most
  632. [22:42] <[WM]szeweningen> with good luck
  633. [22:42] <Monkey[WL]> 16 vs 2 first
  634. [22:42] <Monkey[WL]> that is 1-2 kills
  635. [22:43] <[WM]szeweningen> I have 16 income, he has 14 :)
  636. [22:43] <Kingu> haha, there's no way Bishes could've turned that around
  637. [22:43] <[WM]szeweningen> ah, ok
  638. [22:43] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, 11
  639. [22:43] <vostro[WL]> nice tutorial  i am  going for sleep , bye bye .     i updated  it     http://vostro-notepad.blogspot.com/
  640. [22:43] <Kingu> he could only have got some sweat in your buttcrack
  641. [22:43] <Kingu> this was a walkover
  642. [22:43] * vostro[WL] (Mibbit@E26DEE5F.C05113E2.23078CB0.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  643. [22:43] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway I would still push india and defend one of the territories in russia
  644. [22:43] <Monkey[WL]> well it would give a little sweat
  645. [22:43] * jokken[WL] (Mibbit@mib-96D310F7.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  646. [22:44] <[WM]szeweningen> also remember my 10 leftovers in xinjiang
  647. [22:44] <Monkey[WL]> but yh it would prob be outplayed
  648. [22:44] <[WM]szeweningen> after one turn, I'd sac russia to break blockade
  649. [22:44] <Monkey[WL]> still scary to have a 20 attack against
  650. [22:44] <Monkey[WL]> yh that would help
  651. [22:44] <Monkey[WL]> but getting over a 18 blockade?
  652. [22:44] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, definitely
  653. [22:45] <[WM]szeweningen> 18 would be much too weak
  654. [22:45] <Kingu> you don't mind the 12 losses?
  655. [22:45] <[WM]szeweningen> 30 breaks it no problem
  656. [22:45] <[WM]szeweningen> no, because it means +3 income for me, -4 for him
  657. [22:45] <Monkey[WL]> .7 x 18 is like 12 armies
  658. [22:45] <[WM]szeweningen> because indonesia falls after
  659. [22:45] <Monkey[WL]> that is one turn income
  660. [22:45] <Monkey[WL]> i would walk around and get west china
  661. [22:45] <Kingu> dude, you sac 9 armies more than him on that blockade
  662. [22:45] <[WM]szeweningen> also I wasn't sure he had greenland, I was suspecting australia more
  663. [22:46] <Kingu> that's three turns out of your +3
  664. [22:46] <Kingu> quite an investment
  665. [22:46] <Monkey[WL]> and you need to sac with a blockade
  666. [22:46] <Kingu> yeah you sac russia
  667. [22:46] <Kingu> that's -4
  668. [22:46] <[WM]szeweningen> yes, so worst case scenario I'd be 15vs10...
  669. [22:46] <Monkey[WL]> you need a turn gathering forces to break through
  670. [22:46] <Monkey[WL]> i wouldn't do it
  671. [22:46] <[WM]szeweningen> with him being in australia or greenland
  672. [22:47] <Kingu> also there's a threat on mexico
  673. [22:47] <Monkey[WL]> worst case he would have 5 more back income
  674. [22:47] <Kingu> which we haven't yet considered
  675. [22:47] <Monkey[WL]> then it would be even out with him having his stack
  676. [22:47] <[WM]szeweningen> ?
  677. [22:47] <[WM]szeweningen> guys, I have no idea how are you counting
  678. [22:47] <Monkey[WL]> australia
  679. [22:47] <Monkey[WL]> i mean 4
  680. [22:48] <Monkey[WL]> well worst case is africa the 4 bonus
  681. [22:48] <Monkey[WL]> australia and indo
  682. [22:48] <Kingu> I can also only follow half of what monkey's saying
  683. [22:48] <Monkey[WL]> :P
  684. [22:48] <[WM]szeweningen> no, I know he has nothing in africa
  685. [22:48] <[WM]szeweningen> he deployed 14 on turn 6
  686. [22:49] <[WM]szeweningen> that only left indo+greenland or australia+indo
  687. [22:49] * Lolowut[WL] (Mibbit@mib-E93AAF60.lightspeed.tblltx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  688. [22:50] <Monkey[WL]> you didn't see that
  689. [22:50] <Kingu> I think we can all agree on the fact that Bishes blew this one badly
  690. [22:50] <AceWindu[WL]> I like how you guys are saying you wouldn't do what sze did. That's why you're here lol
  691. [22:50] <Gnullbegg> +1 ace
  692. [22:50] <Kingu> hahahaha
  693. [22:50] <Monkey[WL]> haha
  694. [22:50] <Kingu> touché
  695. [22:50] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway my last comment on turn 6
  696. [22:50] <Monkey[WL]> but at least consider the optional thinking of your oponent
  697. [22:50] <Kingu> but it's actually Bishes moves we're debating
  698. [22:51] <JRussellMikkelsen[WL]> Can we move on the game two soon? This has become a Monkey heavy discussion.
  699. [22:51] <Kingu> how he could've made this more of a challenge
  700. [22:51] <[WM]szeweningen> the problem is he could get access to russia through 3 territories
  701. [22:51] <Kingu> you have a second game?
  702. [22:51] <[WM]VaporX> he has 3
  703. [22:51] <Kingu> then by all means do it
  704. [22:51] <[WM]szeweningen> 2 in kazachstan, 1 in xinjiang
  705. [22:51] <Kingu> gogo game 2 I've seen enough of this one
  706. [22:51] <Monkey[WL]> yh me too
  707. [22:51] <Monkey[WL]> don't want to debate this further
  708. [22:51] <Monkey[WL]> think we just have a different style of playing
  709. [22:51] <Monkey[WL]> :)
  710. [22:51] <JRussellMikkelsen[WL]> Can we have a KingMonkey silence too? That'd be amazing.
  711. [22:52] <Kingu> hey sorry mate
  712. [22:52] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, I defended my territory harder than neutral
  713. [22:52] <[WM]szeweningen> which I think is reasonable
  714. [22:52] <Kingu> didn't mean to be rude or anything
  715. [22:52] <Monkey[WL]> me neither
  716. [22:52] * JRussellMikkelsen[WL] is now known as JRussellMikkelsen
  717. [22:52] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway after that I just pushed him, he tried to trap me but he failed
  718. [22:52] <[WM]szeweningen> and he surrendered having less income
  719. [22:53] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway next game is much more double-edged
  720. [22:53] <[WM]szeweningen> http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2703477
  721. [22:54] <[WM]szeweningen> here 1st 2 picks are quite obvious
  722. [22:54] <[WM]szeweningen> there is a 1st turn bonus, so both players have to make sure they have a part of it
  723. [22:54] <[WM]szeweningen> also I want you guys to remind you about one thing
  724. [22:55] <[WM]szeweningen> try to imagine the game with fog, you can see which territories I saw and which i did not
  725. [22:55] <[WM]szeweningen> with no fog it is very easy to say which moves were not "best"
  726. [22:55] <Widzisz[apex]> your expansion at start could be better here imo
  727. [22:55] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway here Lollipop made a very interesting play
  728. [22:56] <[WM]szeweningen> we'll get to that
  729. [22:56] <Widzisz[apex]> ok
  730. [22:56] <[WM]szeweningen> as I said before the wastelands divide the map into certain parts
  731. [22:56] <[WM]szeweningen> for example china was here cut off from all the other bonuses
  732. [22:57] <[WM]szeweningen> so he decided to sacrifice some troops from fast expansion in the beginning to get safe +6
  733. [22:57] <[WM]szeweningen> which seems very reasonable
  734. [22:57] <[WM]szeweningen> also I overlooked that possibility and I got to the conclusion that he's in china a bit too late
  735. [22:58] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway after picks 1,2 3 was scan since it was safer than antarctica
  736. [22:58] <[WM]szeweningen> 4,5 to get a part of antarctica sombo
  737. [22:58] <[WM]szeweningen> combo
  738. [22:59] <[WM]szeweningen> and 6 I can get pretty much if he getc antarctica cluster
  739. [22:59] <[WM]szeweningen> all the other scenarios are unfortunate
  740. [22:59] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, turn 1
  741. [23:00] <[WM]szeweningen> I expanded in scandinavia with 6+2 attack
  742. [23:00] * dodocomander[WL] (Mibbit@4B00340C.827D9B3.4451F847.IP) has joined #WarLight
  743. [23:00] <dodocomander[WL]> any one here
  744. [23:01] <[WM]szeweningen> I counted the expected value of income streams in 6+2 and 5+3 variations, and they are pretty much the same
  745. [23:01] <Gnullbegg> yep - a lot, actually
  746. [23:01] <Widzisz[apex]> I would go for both Ant 2nd turn too.
  747. [23:01] <[WM]szeweningen> both are acceptable
  748. [23:02] <[WM]szeweningen> lol, that would be pretty stupid
  749. [23:02] <[WM]szeweningen> I didn't know if antarctica was empty
  750. [23:02] <Widzisz[apex]> why?
  751. [23:02] <Kingu> tasmania is a counter
  752. [23:03] <[WM]szeweningen> that is why I didn't go for risky 11 income, which is a possibility
  753. [23:03] <[WM]szeweningen> the problem was antarctica was very probable
  754. [23:03] <[WM]szeweningen> for example if he had th same picks as me
  755. [23:03] <Salahad-Din> never try to break antarctica with such a big army
  756. [23:03] <Widzisz[apex]> you didn't get your 1st pick, meaning he didn't knew your last pick
  757. [23:04] * JRussellMikkelsen[WL] (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) has joined #WarLight
  758. [23:04] <Widzisz[apex]> so he would have to choose tasmania and hope for you being in Ant
  759. [23:04] <Widzisz[apex]> I don't think that's possible
  760. [23:05] <[WM]szeweningen> lol, it is
  761. [23:05] <[WM]szeweningen> 1,2 CA SA
  762. [23:05] <[WM]szeweningen> 3 east africa
  763. [23:05] <[WM]szeweningen> 4,5,6 scan, antarctica, australia
  764. [23:06] <Monkey[WL]> widzisz is correct
  765. [23:06] * dodocomander[WL] (Mibbit@4B00340C.827D9B3.4451F847.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  766. [23:06] <Monkey[WL]> he could be there but couldn't know
  767. [23:06] <Monkey[WL]> cause it was your last pick
  768. [23:06] <Monkey[WL]> and he was first in pick order
  769. [23:06] <Widzisz[apex]> exactly
  770. [23:07] <Widzisz[apex]> in your scenario he would have ant
  771. [23:07] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  772. [23:08] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, you're right, didn't think of that
  773. [23:08] * MentalJargon (Mibbit@mib-AD7EBCF7.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #WarLight
  774. [23:08] <AceWindu[WL]> This chat has convinced me that another "_____ vs the World" would be awesome.
  775. [23:08] <MentalJargon> Evening y'all
  776. [23:09] <[WM]szeweningen> still, I wouldn't go for a 11 income
  777. [23:09] <Widzisz[apex]> ok, your choice
  778. [23:09] <Widzisz[apex]> (yes, the chances for 11 income are pretty low)
  779. [23:10] * Yeon[WL] (Mibbit@mib-5E5FC253.bb.online.no) has joined #WarLight
  780. [23:10] <Widzisz[apex]> Ace, why not World A va World B? :)
  781. [23:11] <[WM]szeweningen> the problem is on the offchance you don't get it, you get a lot of negative net income
  782. [23:11] <[WM]szeweningen> on average ~2 I think
  783. [23:11] <Salahad-Din> AGAIN :), never try to break antarctica with such a big army, this is one of the big mistakes players do at this settings
  784. [23:11] <[WM]szeweningen> I made the calcs back in the day
  785. [23:12] <Kingu> oh man, this turned from a learning session to a top player debate pretty quick
  786. [23:12] <[WM]szeweningen> so it's like 60-70% chance of getting -2 troops to and ~30% chance of getting +3
  787. [23:12] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway
  788. [23:13] <Kingu> sorry sze that I'm partially responsible for deteriorating your session
  789. [23:13] <Kingu> I was acting out of interest
  790. [23:13] <Kingu> ;)
  791. [23:13] <Yeon[WL]> is there a game to follow? :)
  792. [23:13] <[WM]szeweningen> I expanded in scan first, safely in antarctica later
  793. [23:13] <Kingu> Yeon[WL]: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2703477
  794. [23:13] <Yeon[WL]> thanks :)
  795. [23:13] <[WM]szeweningen> and on turn 4 I still didn't know where he was except for CA
  796. [23:14] <[WM]szeweningen> africa was my main suspect
  797. [23:14] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway I thought he'd try to finish central america this or next turn, or at least go into cube
  798. [23:15] <[WM]szeweningen> *cuba
  799. [23:15] <[WM]szeweningen> also since Africa was my main suspect I entered south africa
  800. [23:15] <[WM]szeweningen> I knew that I was expandin faster, so he couldn't enter south africa on the same turn
  801. [23:16] <[WM]szeweningen> I entered australia for 2 reasons
  802. [23:16] <[WM]szeweningen> 1 obviously to take it in the long run
  803. [23:16] <[WM]szeweningen> 2 scout indonesia on the offchance he took it (though unlikely due to bad positioning of the starter)
  804. [23:17] <[WM]szeweningen> actually 3 reasons
  805. [23:17] <[WM]szeweningen> 3 in case he is in africa and I engage him so I don't lose a card piece next turn
  806. [23:17] <[WM]szeweningen> that is also pretty important, if you're 1 card piece behind early in the game it can be detrimental
  807. [23:17] <[WM]szeweningen> later in the game OD and OP cards are even more important
  808. [23:18] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway I started to get a bit confused that turn since I was really counting on him being in east africa
  809. [23:18] <[WM]szeweningen> so at that poin I thought that he was in CA, west africa and indo
  810. [23:19] * JRussellMikkelsen[WL] (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  811. [23:20] <[WM]szeweningen> there was no real point in pushing CA since there was a good possibility he'd defend hard
  812. [23:20] <[WM]szeweningen> also on turn 5 he had the reinforcement card
  813. [23:20] <[WM]szeweningen> since I had more troops there it was likely he'd defend, unlikely he'd counter
  814. [23:20] <[WM]szeweningen> I decided to hold back in CA, push a little in africa to open a front againt him and expand in australia
  815. [23:20] <[WM]szeweningen> that way next turn I'll still have the card, orders to burn in australia and 2 possible fronts to hit, in CA and africa
  816. [23:21] <[WM]szeweningen> also I was thinking that maybe brasil would remain open for a while
  817. [23:21] <[WM]szeweningen> I attacked with 2 in CA in case he tried to run to panama
  818. [23:22] <[WM]szeweningen> on turn 6 I was thinking that he was in north africa
  819. [23:23] <[WM]szeweningen> bad predictions on my part, I should have picked up his lack of deployment and predict he tried china
  820. [23:23] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway on turn 6 it's not an easy decision for me
  821. [23:24] <Evreux[WL]> you are not alone. i am here with you.
  822. [23:24] <Kingu> intriguing monologue
  823. [23:24] <[WM]szeweningen> I decided that he'd attack argentina hard and venezuela lightly
  824. [23:24] <Gnullbegg> don't ruin it again! :P
  825. [23:25] <Salahad-Din> i am here with u too, by the way never try to break antarctica with such a big army :D:D
  826. [23:25] <Widzisz[apex]> lol
  827. [23:25] <[WM]szeweningen> so I thought I shouldn't use many troops on defending venezuela since it had no significant value in terms of strategy with new front opening from south africa
  828. [23:25] <AceWindu[WL]> >.>
  829. [23:25] <AceWindu[WL]> <.<
  830. [23:26] <[WM]szeweningen> I left one more in CA in case he tried to clear it with 2
  831. [23:27] <[WM]szeweningen> now on turn 7 I knew he felt very comfortable with troops advantage in south america
  832. [23:27] <[WM]szeweningen> but he had to defend west africa
  833. [23:27] <[WM]szeweningen> also I thought that maybe he did not have the card
  834. [23:28] <[WM]szeweningen> he deployed to venezuela enough so that normally I couldn't counter
  835. [23:28] <[WM]szeweningen> that is one of the most important reasons to conserve cards early in the game
  836. [23:29] <[WM]szeweningen> we both knew that OD card were something we had to play, but due to leftover armies in australia I was positive I could force a last order
  837. [23:31] <[WM]szeweningen> next turn I mispredicted, I thought he might have defended heavily in brasil, because it'd cut him of of ca and sa, but he pushed south america
  838. [23:31] <[WM]szeweningen> that 3 attack in brasil is for the purpose of spreading risk
  839. [23:32] <[WM]szeweningen> so in case he chooses to push south america and defend brasil with 1 or 2 I can still get it
  840. [23:32] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway at this point I still thought he might be in north africa
  841. [23:33] <[WM]szeweningen> from turn 9 onwards my plan was to sacrifice antarctica to gain momentum in brasil
  842. [23:33] <[WM]szeweningen> blockade scott if needed
  843. [23:33] <[WM]szeweningen> and if possible get CA and Sa
  844. [23:34] <[WM]szeweningen> because on turn 8 he deployed 13
  845. [23:34] <[WM]szeweningen> that was a signal to me he does not have north africa
  846. [23:35] <[WM]szeweningen> before I was only able to see 12 at most or 17 (12+5)
  847. [23:35] <[WM]szeweningen> middle east was absurd, so that led me to china
  848. [23:36] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway I saw I had to get indonesia and japan hopefully, so i had no need for antarctica
  849. [23:36] <[WM]szeweningen> so on turn 9 I started pushing brasil
  850. [23:37] <[WM]szeweningen> also since I knew I could take CA at any point with brasil safe I wasn't reluctant ;etting antarctica go
  851. [23:37] <[WM]szeweningen> I knew he could defend south america, but he wouldn't bother to counter, because obviously I didn't have Ca yet
  852. [23:37] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) has joined #WarLight
  853. [23:38] <[WM]szeweningen> turn 10 is the same bar OP cards
  854. [23:38] <[WM]szeweningen> on turn 11 he decided to let go of brasil
  855. [23:39] <[WM]szeweningen> I defended south america lightly to counter only small attacks
  856. [23:39] <[WM]szeweningen> on turn 12 I wanted to make sure I break west africa in case he wants to hold it
  857. [23:39] * WONDERLAND (Mibbit@mib-557A8E2C.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #WarLight
  858. [23:39] <[WM]szeweningen> in consequence I broke africa, lost antarctica and got ca in return
  859. [23:40] <JRussellMikkelsen> game link again?
  860. [23:40] <[WM]szeweningen> I am not sure since most of the game was real-time, but maybe more accurate was going for indonesia
  861. [23:40] <Luxisapex> http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2703477
  862. [23:41] <[WM]szeweningen> also there was a threat of him getting east africa, so I had to make sure I would get in there
  863. [23:41] <[WM]szeweningen> now on turn 13 I really had to make a good blockade
  864. [23:42] <[WM]szeweningen> the good thing is i didn;t have to "overblockade" him, because if he tried to wear down a strong blockade ~
  865. [23:42] <[WM]szeweningen> ~30 troops
  866. [23:42] <[WM]szeweningen> he would allow me to get Sa later on if possible
  867. [23:42] <[WM]szeweningen> because I would have leftovers from west africa later
  868. [23:43] <[WM]szeweningen> I made a small misplay here
  869. [23:43] <[WM]szeweningen> I should have reversed my 1st and 2nd order
  870. [23:43] * bunes[WL] (Mibbit@mib-733D11E5.mimer.net) has joined #WarLight
  871. [23:43] <[WM]szeweningen> one more thing, when you set up a blockade, instead of deploying all troops you can burn some additional orders with transfers there
  872. [23:44] <[WM]szeweningen> now, turn 14 is somewhat tricky
  873. [23:44] <[WM]szeweningen> I was thinking i could get one more turn to get to japan, but he was already there
  874. [23:45] <[WM]szeweningen> I was afraid he'd just deploy a lot there and start attacking my blockade
  875. [23:45] <[WM]szeweningen> sorry, by japan I mean Hawaii
  876. [23:46] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway that turn I thought that was the perfect opportunity to break india's wasteland
  877. [23:46] <[WM]szeweningen> my reasoning was as follows:
  878. [23:46] * Monkey[WL] (Mibbit@mib-A4DD57E5.cm-7-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  879. [23:46] <[WM]szeweningen> loss of Hawaii is very bad for him especially since I have more income
  880. [23:47] <[WM]szeweningen> his best access to my bonuses is via blockade
  881. [23:47] <[WM]szeweningen> so in his position with less income the best he could do is barrage against the blockade (because of my small misplay last turn it was 4 troops weaker)
  882. [23:47] * MentalJargon (Mibbit@mib-AD7EBCF7.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  883. [23:48] <[WM]szeweningen> so I just deployed small amounts of troops to hawaii and antarctica to prevent attacks with 5 and 2 respectively
  884. [23:49] <Widzisz[apex]> why you expacted him to attack with 5?
  885. [23:49] * WONDERLAND (Mibbit@mib-557A8E2C.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  886. [23:51] * dunga (Mibbit@A5D9231E.7198B39.2B7D1FDE.IP) has joined #WarLight
  887. [23:51] <[WM]szeweningen> fortunately for me he was afraid of me taking south america and he went there
  888. [23:51] <[WM]szeweningen> also since I had more income AND a reinforcement card, on turn 15 I wouldn
  889. [23:51] <[WM]szeweningen> i wouldn't get significant negatice net income
  890. [23:51] <[WM]szeweningen> he of course played an OP card, because he suspected a trap
  891. [23:51] <[WM]szeweningen> I made a very big misplay on next turn
  892. [23:52] <[WM]szeweningen> no reason, I just had that many troops left
  893. [23:52] <Widzisz[apex]> ok
  894. [23:52] <[WM]szeweningen> needed 17 to break wasteland, 1 for antarctica and rest in indonesia
  895. [23:53] * JRussellMikkelsen (Mibbit@mib-3B4BAB6A.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  896. [23:53] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway i decided that the game would prolongue if I let him come to indonesia and break australia aterwards so I just moved to jiangxi to continue the attack and used OD to counter hawaii
  897. [23:53] <[WM]szeweningen> of course eastern russia is dead after I reach Japan
  898. [23:53] * Franco (Mibbit@35D8194.33757D7E.CB112DAE.IP) has joined #WarLight
  899. [23:54] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway I misclicked and moved into Jiangxi after using OD card
  900. [23:54] <[WM]szeweningen> and that is a significant misplay, because most defensive strategies would invole countering hong kong
  901. [23:55] <[WM]szeweningen> on next turn I just cleared things up having more income and multiple fronts to choose from he couldn't defend against it
  902. [23:55] <[WM]szeweningen> questions?
  903. [23:56] <[WM]szeweningen> I have only one more quick game to show how to use conserved cards early in the game
  904. [23:57] * BostonPhoenix[WL] (Mibbit@mib-8754902A.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #WarLight
  905. [23:57] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> did szews chat occur today?
  906. [23:57] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> is there any way i can see what was said?
  907. [23:57] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> is there any way i can see what was said?
  908. [23:57] <dunga> and the game link
  909. [23:58] <Widzisz[apex]> chat is quite long
  910. [23:58] <[WM]szeweningen> http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2703477
  911. [23:58] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> i don't mind reading it
  912. [23:58] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> and you even beat him :)
  913. [23:59] <[WM]szeweningen> well who was here from the start?
  914. [23:59] <[WM]szeweningen> I can sens the copy to someone
  915. [00:00] * Lolowut[WL] (Mibbit@mib-E93AAF60.lightspeed.tblltx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #WarLight
  916. [00:00] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> im happy to give you my email though i don't want to post it in open chat
  917. [00:00] <Widzisz[apex]> I have notes since vostro left
  918. [00:00] <[WM]szeweningen> it is kinda weird that game with Bishes spawned a huge discussion, while much more complicate game with Lollipop kept everyone silent...
  919. [00:00] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> if im in the middle of my best of 5 thing with bishes
  920. [00:00] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> no idea what to do
  921. [00:01] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> stupid priority card screwed me, both played - if i hit it i think i would have had it
  922. [00:01] <Lolowut[WL]> I have a question for anyone who wants to answer. So I'm usually decent at placement, but which bonus should I get first? Sometimes I've screwed myself by trying for Scand, only to realize the guy took West Russia and went directly to Scand.
  923. [00:01] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, so no questions or sugegstions at all now?
  924. [00:01] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> lolipops picks are interesting
  925. [00:01] <[WM]szeweningen> I stated it at the beginning
  926. [00:01] <Kingu> I'm sorry sze
  927. [00:01] <Kingu> I've become braindead in the meantime
  928. [00:02] <Luxisapex> Lolo, it depends a lot on the map layout, wastelands etc.
  929. [00:02] <[WM]szeweningen> first picks (practically first 4) are for safe income
  930. [00:02] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> don't often play mainland china 1
  931. [00:02] * bunes[WL] (Mibbit@mib-733D11E5.mimer.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  932. [00:02] <Lolowut[WL]> I understood
  933. [00:02] <Lolowut[WL]> Understand*
  934. [00:02] <Lolowut[WL]> lo
  935. [00:02] <[WM]VaporX> Thanks for the explaining sze
  936. [00:02] <Kingu> it's all been great fun, though
  937. [00:02] <[WM]VaporX> i understand so much more now =P
  938. [00:02] <Lolowut[WL]> Sze, I guess the problem is me winning my 1st pick and someone going straight to pop it.
  939. [00:03] * [WM]szeweningen (Mibbit@mib-3BFE3E48.bemowonet.pl) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  940. [00:03] <Lolowut[WL]> Usually they're lucky about it, but I'm wondering what a good counter would be?
  941. [00:03] <Kingu> in the end, though, the best way to learn it is to just play
  942. [00:03] <Widzisz[apex]> oh, he left :(
  943. [00:04] <Kingu> sze's efforts were great, and it was a nice initiative
  944. [00:04] * [WM]szeweningen (Mibbit@mib-3BFE3E48.bemowonet.pl) has joined #WarLight
  945. [00:04] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> wid do you have the previous chat?
  946. [00:04] <[WM]szeweningen> just got logged out
  947. [00:04] <Widzisz[apex]> yup, I think so
  948. [00:04] <[WM]szeweningen> for a minute
  949. [00:05] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> mind copying and posting in an open chat
  950. [00:05] <Widzisz[apex]> it's too long for that Boston
  951. [00:05] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> *game chat
  952. [00:05] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> :/
  953. [00:06] <Kingu> pastebin?
  954. [00:06] <[WM]szeweningen> yeah, game chats have limits on message length
  955. [00:06] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> o okay
  956. [00:06] * devilnis[WL] (Mibbit@4240E9A0.D8C53BF7.6EF152C5.IP) has joined #WarLight
  957. [00:06] <Salahad-Din> we need a channel for tutorials
  958. [00:06] <Evreux[WL]> lolli's china grab is odd. he usually makes more orthodox picks.
  959. [00:06] <[WM]szeweningen> so what did you decide about 3rd game?
  960. [00:06] <[WM]szeweningen> I think his picks were creative
  961. [00:07] <Evreux[WL]> i think he should have played from his strengths instead of pick china. it let you grow too.
  962. [00:07] <[WM]szeweningen> yes, I still think my picks or a variation with east africa were best
  963. [00:07] <[WM]VaporX> Salahad-Din: if there's enough interest I wouldn't mind setting one up
  964. [00:07] <Kingu> I think your picks game 2 were pretty solid
  965. [00:08] <Evreux[WL]> creative yes. myhand beat denzyman with w china. it is unexpected. but myhand was able to do that bc there was close contact earlier.
  966. [00:08] * EpicConqueror[WL] (Mibbit@mib-70C2619A.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #WarLight
  967. * Retrieving #WarLight modes...
  968. [00:08] <Widzisz[apex]> 3rd game?
  969. [00:08] <[WM]szeweningen> yes, I also have a game with unknown prepared
  970. [00:08] <[WM]szeweningen> quite short
  971. [00:09] <[WM]szeweningen> also I have a game with mek Blaze heavily analysed
  972. [00:09] <[WM]szeweningen> it was right after he was proclaimed new Impaller by Bishes, so I had to overanalyse that one :)
  973. [00:11] <[WM]szeweningen> so I guess no one is interested anymore
  974. [00:12] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> ill raise a hand
  975. [00:12] <Gnullbegg> I'm very interested but pretty tired...
  976. [00:12] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, i'll make it quick
  977. [00:13] <[WM]szeweningen> http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2716602
  978. [00:13] <[WM]VaporX> I'm interested, I just got done reading everything else =P
  979. [00:14] <[WM]szeweningen> ok, that is a game won only because of 2 things:
  980. [00:14] <[WM]VaporX> hey sze, theres that infamous Mex/SA combo you always go for =P
  981. [00:14] <[WM]szeweningen> effective expansion and conserving cards
  982. [00:15] <[WM]szeweningen> here we went for the same picks in different order
  983. [00:15] <BostonPhoenix[WL]> yeah he cut himself off
  984. [00:15] <[WM]szeweningen> anyway ca/sa and indonesia/australia are good for safe starts
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