Tim/Igrom PM exchange

From:	Tim Skywalker
To:	Igrom
Posted:	Tue 23 Jul - 2:44
Subject:	Whats up?	Quote message
Iggy!

Hey look man, I know you're probably not too happy at all to see another of my applications, but I assure you if I am accepted I would never leave again. AoF has permanently left Jk2 and become a minecraft and SWTOR community, instead of a clan.

Look let me tell you the honest to god truth here, call me dramatic or whatever but this is how I feel. I explained my feelings to Xaso earlier as well, you may discuss it with him if you'd like.

When I joined when I was 14, I saw opportunity to become a cyan, because that was cool and I could be respected or whatever. Some young kid BS fantasy. As I became more engrossed in the clan, I honestly just didnt feel like I was accepted or even noticed. I tried hard to be active, and tried to be an avid participant in the clan, but from people like Aju, or Luci, and even you, I was just a kid, not worth anyones time.

So, I left for HACKS, because maybe I could make a difference. That didnt work out, so I came back, and I was sorry, I truly was.

I helped AoF break from HACKS. It was basically like the ATS SoL split, just obviously much smaller (but lots of drama nonetheless). I built the AoF forum while I was still in SoL, I didnt ever plan on leaving, but SoL started to die, and soon I was the only active on the server for a while.

You get the picture, I panicked and figured I'd be clan hunting in a bit anyway. But SoL lived, and I regretted it the whole past year I've been running AoF.

I don't seek power or leadership anymore, I've had my fill. I've discovered that it is a burden, rather than a blessing. I simply want to reconnect with clan members like you. I promise that.

Before I left, I seem to recall we didnt get along, and I'm sorry. I truly, deeply am sorry. I honestly don't expect my yellow flame back, or even becoming a recruit again, but I just to let you know how I felt. Like a kid or an outsider, maybe even misunderstood. You probably don't know what I mean, since your sense of humor is over 9000 and everyone respects and likes you. I know, because I think you're funny and I respect you.

I'm done with hopping like super mario between clans, I'm done, I just want something stable where I can talk with old friends and have fun like good old times. I'd especially like to learn some more dueling tips from you, or even help you recruit for CF.

If I am not accepted, I will continue to visit the forum and play on the server, there will be no hard feelings. If I am accepted, yellow or recruit, I will not rest until I am a cyan like you. Thats what I wanted 2 years ago, and its what I want now. I've learned its about the journey, not the destination, and I want to have good times while getting there.

I'll see you soon Iggy, I hope that we can be good friends again, or hopefully I seem like I'm more mature enough to handle things now. Peace.

-Tim

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From:	Tim Skywalker
To:	Igrom
Posted:	Mon 29 Jul - 9:46
Subject:	hey again	Quote message
Heard about your arm, I hope you're feeling better and the pain isn't bad!


I know you've never been one to chat, hell you deserve a medal if you even read my last message lol! Growing up and moving into college and experiencing my last days of high school has taught me that you can't make everyone your friend, and you can't always keep friends. You probably hate me, and I've got to be honest, I don't remember the specifics of the argument we got into to make you hate me. Maybe hate is a strong word, but I don't know whats inside your head, and I don't plan on prying.


I realize that I can't make you or force you to be friends again. It has to happen on its own. And if you're not willing, then I understand.

I hope you heal quick buddy, take care!

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Igrom

Mon 29 Jul - 16:52    Topic: reply
I didn't reply at first because typing with one hand is a drag, but it looks like I ought to answer. I appreciate you giving me a psychological analysis in the PMs.
The thing that distinguishes clans from other shit is that membership stresses being 100% loyal to it. Some tend to forget that. To give a brief recap of your adventures: you were in SoL as a very active member. You left for HACKS, for rumors of council/admin or whatever. Your rejoining post was filled with guilt and regret, and you were accepted back in. Sometime later, you made this grand leaving post, speaking of getting on with your life and leaving the game. (Un)surprisingly though, word soon got out that you're now using another name in a different clan. Now that that clan is gone from JK2, you're back with another, likely fake, display of shame.

I have better things to do than hate someone over the internet, but that doesn't mean I can't judge people. Wehr's old remark was spot-on, you hop between clans. You ran from HACKS only to get engaged in another venture. You talk plenty of respect, and it's obvious that it's important to you. Successfully running AoF is respectful, but you negate that respect. You're even trying to sell me the story that you've regretted things in AoF all year: I wonder what your AoF friends would say if they heard it.

I have learned that you lack loyalty, and redeeming traits don't matter here. I am irritated that other clan members have already forgotten your exploits and the thought you'd ever pass a cyan examination is hilarious. Thanks to your efforts, I think you'll always be treated as a kid by many.
Igrom

PS. I purged CF and its ranks because it was all so half-assed. Now that it's a bit more organized, it has a purpose. You're not in it.

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From:	Tim Skywalker
To:	Igrom
Posted:	Mon 29 Jul - 20:37
Subject:	Re: reply	Quote message
It's not fake, but I understand why you would think that. And I clearly do not lack loyalty, clearly displayed by me faithfully leading and trying to build AoF for over a whole year before it was decided we should leave JK2. Not to mention the year and a half I spent with SoL before that.

I'm still in AoF, nothing has really changed, except we aren't a clan. And honestly Iggy, what clan could I possibly hop to after this? They're all dead. Oh and, what I regret, is not "being in AoF". I said I regretted leaving SoL, based on a ridiculous assumption that it was going under. That was a bad call, but I wanted to keep playing with active members. I made great friends in HACKS, and I felt an obligation to help them.

I am disappointed that you think I am fake, and currently you're the only one treating me like a kid. I'm a different person now, I'm not a dramatic 15 year old anymore. You're my elder of course, so I can't change how you think. If you have to make me a recruit again then so be it.

The other clan members have "forgotten" because I am telling the truth, and believe what you want, but I am here to serve SoL. It irritates me how you think I am going to just hop again; this is why you don't cry wolf. I know what its like to have a member reapply many many times, trust me I understand the process, and this is my last time. I understand your concerns.

However what ticks me off the most

Igrom wrote:
the thought you'd ever pass a cyan examination is hilarious.


or

Igrom wrote:
Now that it's a bit more organized, it has a purpose. You're not in it.


Taking stabs at me isn't going to solve shit. I WILL become a cyan I can promise you that. And I'll stay a cyan, being a respected member of the clan and helping to guide it, along with other members, to success and prosperity! I can promise you that. In fact, I'll start contributing before cyan.

So don't believe me or do, but I'm telling the truth, theres nowhere for me to run if SoL accepts me.

You want loyalty, then I'll give you loyalty.

Tim

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Igrom

Tue 30 Jul - 3:00    Topic: Re: reply
You have a warped understanding of "crying wolf". It's not about 'what ifs', it's about facts; not about you leaving us again but that you've already done so twice. Xasomur gives people virtually unlimited chances, I don't.

Confusion ensued when rumours implied that you might be using another name. I still remember your severe disappointment when the word got out that you are in fact Leonardo. If it wasn't for Teddy or whoever it was, we wouldn't have learned of the fact and you'd get away with it. Considering it all happened shortly after your full-of-pathos leaving post, you showed significant dishonesty.

Come to think of it, when you were leaving for HACKS, your justification was "I did not feel like I was worthy enough for SoL. I can not live up to her expectations as well as her activity level // I wish I could take the next step with you all..but I cant. Why? I am afraid". However, in your PM you're saying you weren't treated with respect you thought you deserved - so you said a lie back then. Later, you've used "concentrating on studying" as a reason. But you didn't quit shit, you joined HACKS (to "mod and map", right, what happened to studying ?). You were baited with high positions in that clan, and tried to dismiss the failure by selling excuses to both us and them. You also supported your soon-to-be jump to AoF by real life taking over, which,according to your PM, is another lie. So you've used the same excuse twice ? That's boss.

People rejoin SoL, and we're usually lenient with those who played their cards open. Zelah stated that he would team up with devY because he believed he had more opportunities there. There's nothing wrong with him being back with us.

Age doesn't matter in videogames, unless you're a 12-year-old castrated chav wailing on the microphone; deeds do.

Having in mind that contribution is like 25-50% of becoming cyan, we'd have to be retards to choose someone who's lax.

"And honestly Iggy, what clan could I possibly hop to after this? They're all dead." "You want loyalty, then I'll give you loyalty." "
Taking stabs at me isn't going to solve shit." If you haven't noticed yet, I really don't care where you go. I'm not solving shit: I neither want to befriend you or seek middlegrounds. Your history says that you abuse trust.

CF was born anew because there was no interest coming from anyone: an arbitrary tag with no memberlist or intent. After reading this post you should understand why I didn't contact you after it happened.

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Tim Skywalker

Tue 30 Jul - 8:32    Topic: Re: reply
First of all, I revealed to you, on server, who I was. Don't try to turn my friends against me, I told Teddy on purpose so he would know. I counted on him to tell everyone.

It took me around 7 months to be on the council in AoF btw, thanks for making an assumption. Also I will have you know as of August 1st I'm stepping down, AoF has decided to hold elections like SoL, so don't try to mark me a power grabber. I took my time, because the people of AoF were worth it, and I'm confident that they wouldn't call me disloyal or "lax".

Wanna know why I lied Iggy? Its simple, because you'd hate me whatever I'd chose. I could've told you the truth, but we'd be in the same exact position that we are right now, with you constantly making harsh remarks and whatnot. It didn't matter what I decided to say, and you know it.


Idk Iggy, my cards are pretty fucking open right now.


I left for HACKS the first time because I wasn't in the original group that broke away from ATS, and I felt disconnected, or like I wasn't worth their time. I know you know how that feels. I won't lie, and I don't give a rat's ass who you tell, but leaving for HACKS was a mistake. Leaving for AoF was a blessing. I don't regret it at all.

Going into AoF was almost an accident. I built the AoF forum and helped them break free from HACKS while I was still a SoL member. Wanna know something interesting? The reason I left for AoF, was because of you. Towards the end there, you weren't very friendly, Vader was inactive, Micr0 left for Ce, so I left, because it didnt even feel like I had one friend in the clan. I can tell now that I'm right, judging by what you put in your post.

So I came back every so often, and I saw you like maybe twice. I think one time you spent talking shit on me, and the other you spent ignoring me, even as I was trying to be friendly. I'm still trying to be friendly, idk why anymore.

I'm sure if Micr0 came back you'd accept him right away. "I don't give unlimited chances". Save it, I know what it's like to make the tough decision with a former member that you like. You'd give him 2 days max to accept him back in. I know Micr0 well, and he damn well keeps his cards hidden.

Igrom wrote:
I neither want to befriend you or seek middlegrounds.


That sucks. Hopefully I can prove it to you. I know the vote is like 7-2 btw, so I'll make sure I can prove that I'm gonna stick around for a long time.

Igrom, life is not all about facts. Well it is, but "what ifs" is what started a fact. If you want something to happen, you go out, and you take it. Then and only then, is is a fact.

You're using "my history" as an excuse because you do care what happens to me, I've heard you've put a lot of effort into trying to convince others to not vote yes. You want me gone. So excuse me, if I don't believe that you don't care, because you clearly do.

I might keep ranting, I'm actually enjoying this.

I'll help you start up CF again, I know several people who would be interested in joining. I know for a fact Dudeman would love it. He goes by the name Prov now btw, as in Improvisateur. Ikr, clever.

Also, contribution has a lot to do with Cyan, look at you! There is no leader, but its quite obvious that you've taken a large leadership role. So excuse me again if that is also hard to believe.

Yes, I shouldn't have lied, I understand. No I don't lie anymore, I can swear to that.

Also, in my pathos post, my disc actually was smashed believe it or not. I use steam now. I'll give you that one actually, that was a retarded and drama filled post, I just want it to be deleted frankly. I find it shameful.


Finally, don't pretend that you know who I am or what I think. You never made an attempt to get to know me or just chat, I was just a "kid" to you. You're only 2 years older, its not that big of a difference. So now twice you've ensued that "my history" is the cause/ reason you don't want me, but in reality, you have personal issues with me that are very clear. You've used the same excuse twice. That's boss.

And yeah you're right, I abused your trust. A mistake that I swore that I would never do to anyone again. But I don't have any proof and you need fact right? Mhmm.

I care too you know. You don't have to befriend me at all. Xaso said that he had problems with Draco back in the day, and I think that eventually got solved. It could happen to us. You could have a really good day, come on Jk2, we could finally have a friendly chat instead of this mudslinging we're participating in right now.

You know what's actually really funny? You said we'd have to be retards to let me be a cyan, but you're irritated at everyone forgetting what I did. Are they retards Ig? I know what you meant, but still calling members retards isn't very leader-like.

I don't expect you to change your vote. "If you haven't noticed, I really don't care". I'm pretty naive in a way where I have hope in every situation, I figured you would at least hear me out and understand. You heard me out so we got halfway there lol.

In fact let me be perfectly blunt with you. I'm not here for you, I think you're mean, and I think you're very critical, and I think you make too many assumptions based on fact. Luckily, you have a wonderfully refreshing sense of humor that just makes me smile, and thats all everyone else sees.

Me? I'm biased, I'm manipulative, I'm a try hard, and really I can just be an annoying prick when I want to. And yeah, you can add "liar" too if you want. But you know this because you see my personality. I see yours too. It's called "reading people". Its what makes someone an effective leader. Which I know you are.

I complain about no friends, so I think I'll just make new ones. Danek is fantastic haha, he knows gooby and dolan jokes haha. I saw GGM the other day, god he's so friendly :DI met Vort for the first time last week too, boy he sure knows how to duel, you oughta take him on haha.

You don't like me, I get it. But don't let personal feelings ruin your judgement issues. You're not gullible, you're very eloquent and very smart. If I didn't mean what I say, I wouldn't be trying to apply for SoL again would I? If I didn't care I wouldn't be trying again huh? There's a fact for you, just think about it.

By the way do you remember kai,if? Doubt you liked that guy, he's another multiclanner. I brought Nick and Xaso proof that he did. Maybe I should have brought it to you, maybe you'd feel a little sympathetic.

I've said it once, I'll say it a million times. I'm here to contribute for SoL. And hey, it'll take a while to get the cyan that I want (especially since it sounds like you're gonna block me from it) but I'll do it.
I want to get CF started up, I'll even get a forum running for you if you'd like. I'm not here to be a leader, I'm here to have fun and I'm here to play jk2 with a great clan of people. Not here for drama or hatred or "middlegrounds".

Mmmm you know what I just remembered our last encounter. Sorry I'm slow to remember. You accused me of cheating in a duel on server right? You got pretty mad. I remember now. Yeah I used a bacta mid battle, I'm sorry about that.

I take dueling/nf seriously too, I'd love to maybe duel with you or learn from you again. If I don't become a cyan, my biggest wish is to master the blade. I hope you can find it in your heart to teach me.

Well that's pretty much it, I'm sure you're good and pissed that I wrote this much. Sorry but I'm just letting you know whats on my mind. I'm done arguing with you, I get your position pretty clear now. Thanks for clearing it up with me.

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Tim Skywalker

Tue 30 Jul - 8:35    Topic: Oh BTdubbs
managed to talk Teddy into returning to SoL, thanks for mentioning him. Xaso is working on it too hehe.

Anyway, just want to let you know that I'm already contributing.

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Igrom

Tue 30 Jul - 23:14    Topic: Re: reply
I went on and created a thread. It's currently in Member Chat, so that the matter isn't spread to those not in SoL. Do you want it to be in "The Clan" ? You'll then be able to read and post in it.

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Tim Skywalker

Tue 30 Jul - 23:17    Topic: Re: reply
No that is quite alright, I'll be able to see it eventually.