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  1. Session Ident: #Smash_Lab
  2. [09:30:07] <rPSI> alright, so we can officially start
  3. [09:30:08] <Veril> hurtbox and hitbox data
  4. [09:30:11] <Indigo_Jeans> Master Hand is lol
  5. [09:30:13] <MrEsc> Pretty much ready, right?
  6. [09:30:20] <Indigo_Jeans> Hurtbox data is top tier
  7. [09:30:24] <Strong_Bad> not the character, Indigo; the program.
  8. [09:30:25] <Veril> ^^
  9. [09:30:26] <Indigo_Jeans> yes
  10. [09:30:34] <Indigo_Jeans> yes
  11. [09:30:34] <AmazingAmpharos> So, I'm not 100% clear on the plan, but I'm sure rPSI will happily lead the way
  12. [09:30:39] <rPSI> Alright
  13. [09:30:42] <rPSI> so first of all
  14. [09:30:42] <Veril> ^
  15. [09:30:48] <rPSI> we need to get the basic terms down for public release
  16. [09:30:50] <Strong_Bad> welcome AA, I believe you've met some of my crewmates :o
  17. [09:30:56] <rPSI> We have standard attacks
  18. [09:31:09] <rPSI> not going to go through the list of tilts and whatnot
  19. [09:31:16] <rPSI> We have movement
  20. [09:31:26] <rPSI> Dash, Walk etc.
  21. [09:31:35] <Veril> well, there's a bit to that
  22. [09:31:38] <AmazingAmpharos> Are we making a distinction between "Dash" and "Run"?
  23. [09:31:39] <rPSI> yeah
  24. [09:31:43] <Indigo_Jeans> I'd suggest describing walk and dash speeds
  25. [09:31:45] <Veril> dash and run are not the same thing
  26. [09:31:53] <Strong_Bad> correct.
  27. [09:31:55] <Indigo_Jeans> run = top walk speed
  28. [09:31:56] <Veril> slow, medium and fast
  29. [09:31:57] <AmazingAmpharos> Yeah, I always use dash to mean the initial movement and run to mean the continuous action
  30. [09:32:02] <AmazingAmpharos> but some people use the words differently
  31. [09:32:06] <Strong_Bad> run is what a character goes into after dash.
  32. [09:32:07] <Raziek> ^this
  33. [09:32:19] <EA> agree
  34. [09:32:24] <Strong_Bad> dash is what you do to foxtrot/dd
  35. [09:32:24] <Veril> initial dashes are very different from run
  36. [09:32:29] <Veril> in terms of what you can do during them
  37. [09:32:34] <Veril> same with dash dances
  38. [09:32:39] <rPSI> alright and there's three different walk speeds IIRC
  39. [09:32:41] <Strong_Bad> true. in vBrawl you cannot shield during dash.
  40. [09:32:44] <Veril> they're slightly different than initial dashes
  41. [09:32:48] <DarkDragoon> Walk-Dash-Run
  42. [09:32:51] <AmazingAmpharos> As I hear it, there are 6-7 actually
  43. [09:32:55] <AmazingAmpharos> different walk speeds that is
  44. [09:33:00] <Strong_Bad> there are several different walk speeds, yes.
  45. [09:33:00] <Veril> you can shield from a secondary dash (ie dash dance)
  46. [09:33:08] <Veril> and in run
  47. [09:33:13] <AmazingAmpharos> and walking has all sorts of goofy acceleration parameters
  48. [09:33:13] <rPSI> well three different animations for walking
  49. [09:33:14] <Indigo_Jeans> There are four run speeds though iirc
  50. [09:33:31] <Strong_Bad> running speeds seem to be analog
  51. [09:33:36] <Strong_Bad> thus vary greatly
  52. [09:33:36] <AmazingAmpharos> oddly, walking is actually much more complicated than running
  53. [09:33:47] <Veril> there's also weird shit with sonic, peach, and ivysaur dashes
  54. [09:33:51] <Veril> but w/e
  55. [09:33:56] <AmazingAmpharos> well, the initial dashes have all sorts of different natures
  56. [09:34:07] <AmazingAmpharos> but by the time you're done, you are running at one set speed for your character
  57. [09:34:08] <rPSI> is there any term we should denote for different walk/run speeds?
  58. [09:34:09] <AmazingAmpharos> and hence one run speed
  59. [09:34:21] <AmazingAmpharos> In a practical effect for walking, walking is walking
  60. [09:34:24] <Indigo_Jeans> Walk# maybe
  61. [09:34:33] <AmazingAmpharos> there's very little reason to need to talk about different walk speeds
  62. [09:34:39] <Veril> walking speed matters when you pivot walk
  63. [09:34:52] <AmazingAmpharos> I mean, some characters walk faster than others
  64. [09:34:55] <Raziek> I don't see a real need to make a distinction in the term though
  65. [09:35:03] <rPSI> Alright
  66. [09:35:04] <DarkDragoon> Well
  67. [09:35:06] <Strong_Bad> [06:33pm]   <AmazingAmpharos>   but by the time you're done, you are running at one set speed for your character <-- Whilst I'm unsure about vBrawl behavior, in Melee, one can tilt toward down on the control stick to slow down during a run and then hold forward to continue at that speed.
  68. [09:35:25] <DarkDragoon> Yes, it is in brawl too.
  69. [09:35:28] <Veril> yeah that's just canceling the break into run again
  70. [09:35:31] <Veril> iirc
  71. [09:35:34] <Bionic> ^
  72. [09:35:46] <Strong_Bad> I don't think it actually goes into runbrake, though.
  73. [09:35:51] <MrEsc> Yeah, its how you can run at the edge, by dropping down to a slower walk speed
  74. [09:35:51] <AmazingAmpharos> What I was saying about walk speed is that, you could walk at any number of speeds
  75. [09:35:58] <AmazingAmpharos> like as Marth, you could slow walk or fast walk or anything in-between
  76. [09:36:09] <AmazingAmpharos> but when do we need to talk about walking at the third speed level with Marth?
  77. [09:36:14] <Veril> leaving information out in a description is not the way to go
  78. [09:36:15] <Veril> imo
  79. [09:36:20] <AmazingAmpharos> As opposed to just talking about walking as fast as you need to, up to as fast as you can go
  80. [09:36:25] <Veril> walking should be designated by speed
  81. [09:36:28] <Strong_Bad> as I said, walking speeds are quite analog in their speed.
  82. [09:36:53] <Raziek> We want these to be relatively simple though, do we not? If we get too wordy with defining simple walking, then things are going to get a little complicated
  83. [09:37:10] <MrEsc> I agree with Razieks sentiment
  84. [09:37:14] <AmazingAmpharos> yeah, it's not quite analog, but it is quantized enough with enough acceleration parameters that we might as well treat it as such
  85. [09:37:15] <Indigo_Jeans> Walking should be defined by animation imo
  86. [09:37:16] <rPSI> I agree that we should keep the public with simpler
  87. [09:37:23] <EA> could just use a simple fraction or percentage to describe walking speed where it matters
  88. [09:37:33] <rPSI> but we should definitely research all the different run and walk functions
  89. [09:37:33] <Strong_Bad> we can simply state that walking speeds vary by the amount of tilt that is placed on the control stick.
  90. [09:37:35] <AmazingAmpharos> so we can probably just talk about "walking, which may be done at various speeds"
  91. [09:37:41] <Veril> yes, obviously someone reading a dictionary of smash terminology won't be able to deal with an extra word in a descriptor
  92. [09:37:46] <AmazingAmpharos> and yeah, we could mention how you walk slower if we really want to
  93. [09:37:49] <AmazingAmpharos> but I assume most players know about that
  94. [09:37:53] <rPSI> alright, so
  95. [09:37:57] <rPSI> let's move on to other grounded movement
  96. [09:37:58] <Veril> don't assume that stuff
  97. [09:38:06] <rPSI> there's pivot walking
  98. [09:38:07] <Indigo_Jeans> you can walk in place on the edge
  99. [09:38:13] <Indigo_Jeans> very sensitive speed though
  100. [09:38:19] <AmazingAmpharos> most people reading a smash dictionary are going to see a large paragraph about walking
  101. [09:38:22] <AmazingAmpharos> not even advanced techniques
  102. [09:38:26] <AmazingAmpharos> just a massive definition of walking
  103. [09:38:29] <AmazingAmpharos> and be put off
  104. [09:38:39] <AmazingAmpharos> there's a real argument for simplicity in really basic stuff
  105. [09:38:45] <AmazingAmpharos> even if the underlying mechanics are nuanced and complex
  106. [09:38:50] <Strong_Bad> to be clear, are we making this "dictionary" based around Brawl, all 3 games, or what?
  107. [09:38:53] * rPSI says that we should move on and keep walking definition simple for the public
  108. [09:38:54] <Veril> we don't need them to be like, excited about reading it
  109. [09:39:06] <Indigo_Jeans> Brawl
  110. [09:39:07] <Veril> brawl
  111. [09:39:08] <rPSI> Brawl
  112. [09:39:13] <Indigo_Jeans> it's going to be posted in BTD
  113. [09:39:16] <Strong_Bad> fair enough.
  114. [09:39:26] <Indigo_Jeans> but I've been pulling for a Melee dictionary
  115. [09:39:33] <Indigo_Jeans> *cough*
  116. [09:39:43] <Veril> not the topic though
  117. [09:39:43] <Strong_Bad> my ability to contribute will be significantly lower than most in this effort, then, and I apologize in advance for that.
  118. [09:39:50] <Indigo_Jeans> but no one seems to be willing to help
  119. [09:39:59] <rPSI> alright, let's move on from walking >:U
  120. [09:40:04] <Veril> lol
  121. [09:40:08] <Indigo_Jeans> Erm...
  122. [09:40:09] <MrEsc> lol, lets
  123. [09:40:16] <Strong_Bad> Indigo_Jeans: I'd be willing to help at a later date, however let us continue with the topic at hand.
  124. [09:40:34] <Indigo_Jeans> how about... craq walking?
  125. [09:40:34] <AmazingAmpharos> I'd say, about the games, we should write around Brawl but use general expressions when talking about things that also apply to melee and smash64
  126. [09:40:42] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Ground Movement'
  127. [09:40:42] <AmazingAmpharos> so it's reusable if we want to translate
  128. [09:40:47] <Veril> craq walking lol
  129. [09:40:54] <Strong_Bad> wtf is craq walking
  130. [09:41:05] <Veril> landing into a buffered pivot walk basically
  131. [09:41:16] <rPSI> that's less of a movement term than AT
  132. [09:41:21] <Veril> getting a tiny momentum boost
  133. [09:41:26] <Veril> yeah its an AT
  134. [09:41:38] <AmazingAmpharos> not the most useful AT
  135. [09:41:41] <Veril> one of many meh brawl techniques
  136. [09:41:43] <AmazingAmpharos> though I've seen Legan get a little out of it
  137. [09:41:52] <Veril> its useful on slopes
  138. [09:41:58] <AmazingAmpharos> (not that the term "advanced technique" is even that useful, but whatever)
  139. [09:42:05] <rPSI> alright there's runturn... can't remember the technical name DX
  140. [09:42:15] <Strong_Bad> RunTurn
  141. [09:42:18] <rPSI> lol
  142. [09:42:26] <rPSI> for the public should we keep it as runturn?
  143. [09:42:29] <Veril> no
  144. [09:42:34] <Veril> that sounds dumb
  145. [09:42:34] <rPSI> thought so
  146. [09:42:34] <Strong_Bad> actually it's TurnRun
  147. [09:42:35] <Veril> lol
  148. [09:42:37] <AmazingAmpharos> I always called turning around while running a "pivot"
  149. [09:42:41] <AmazingAmpharos> since you can pivot grab out of it
  150. [09:42:43] <AmazingAmpharos> and it's natural
  151. [09:42:46] <Veril> running pivot
  152. [09:42:52] <rPSI> running pivot sounds right
  153. [09:42:59] <Raziek> agreed
  154. [09:43:03] <MrEsc> it sounds a lot better than run turn, in any case
  155. [09:43:04] <Strong_Bad> pivot is a very complex term that means several different things based on which game it's being applied to.
  156. [09:43:19] <Veril> yeah its one of the most consistent terms though
  157. [09:43:20] <rPSI> that's why I didn't want to say pivot just for it
  158. [09:43:21] <Veril> imo
  159. [09:43:25] <Veril> ____ pivot
  160. [09:43:31] <Veril> descriptor +
  161. [09:43:35] <Veril> pivot
  162. [09:43:46] <AmazingAmpharos> The melee people kinda made up a lot of silly names though
  163. [09:43:52] <AmazingAmpharos> such as the very silly "sex kick"
  164. [09:43:53] <rPSI> alright... there's crawling (F and B) and crouching
  165. [09:43:56] <Veril> yes, yes they did
  166. [09:44:00] <Strong_Bad> sex kick was made by SSB64 players.
  167. [09:44:01] <AmazingAmpharos> I hope we agree to move away from some of that superfluous naming
  168. [09:44:06] <DarkDragoon> o.o
  169. [09:44:13] <DarkDragoon> sexkick
  170. [09:44:18] <DarkDragoon> is pretty...universal
  171. [09:44:19] <Bionic> I hope so
  172. [09:44:23] <Veril> sex kick is
  173. [09:44:25] <Veril> ingrained
  174. [09:44:30] <AmazingAmpharos> it's an ancient term
  175. [09:44:32] <Veril> and silly
  176. [09:44:34] <Veril> I like it
  177. [09:44:34] <AmazingAmpharos> but no one uses it anymore
  178. [09:44:38] <rPSI> sex kick is ingrained... it would be hard to remove
  179. [09:44:39] <DarkDragoon> and I can't imagine any name that would be simpler
  180. [09:44:40] <Strong_Bad> many people still use it.
  181. [09:44:41] <Veril> but lingering hitbox
  182. [09:44:43] <DarkDragoon> and everyone uses it lol
  183. [09:44:43] <Veril> is accurate
  184. [09:44:48] <Veril> and makes sense
  185. [09:44:50] <AmazingAmpharos> I never hear it used at least
  186. [09:44:56] <Veril> I hear it
  187. [09:44:59] <Raziek> I'm with Veril on "lingering hitbox"
  188. [09:45:00] <DarkDragoon> Play with Link/Samus players.
  189. [09:45:01] <DarkDragoon> :P
  190. [09:45:01] <MrEsc> Well, this is a tangent
  191. [09:45:03] <AmazingAmpharos> probably because not many Brawl characters even have them
  192. [09:45:09] <rPSI> we could just use lingering hitbox and make sure to say that it's common name is sex kick
  193. [09:45:09] <Strong_Bad> i agree with MrEsc
  194. [09:45:11] <Veril> its a terminology discussion
  195. [09:45:12] <AmazingAmpharos> and most that do aren't even good
  196. [09:45:14] <Veril> this is a term
  197. [09:45:26] <Veril> and not walking
  198. [09:45:29] <rPSI> lol
  199. [09:45:30] <Veril> so an improvement
  200. [09:45:42] <rPSI> alright, so other ground movement that hasn't been brought up?
  201. [09:45:46] <Strong_Bad> rolling
  202. [09:45:47] * Indigo_Jeans has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  203. [09:45:49] <Veril> dash canceling
  204. [09:45:56] <Veril> well dash attack
  205. [09:45:56] <Strong_Bad> dash cancel doesn't exist in vBrawl.
  206. [09:45:57] <rPSI> Indigo rage quit
  207. [09:45:58] <Veril> canceling
  208. [09:46:14] <rPSI> anyway...
  209. [09:46:17] <AmazingAmpharos> Does DACUS come into play here?
  210. [09:46:21] <DarkDragoon> DACUS.
  211. [09:46:27] <Veril> yes
  212. [09:46:28] <Strong_Bad> QAC yo
  213. [09:46:29] <rPSI> DACUS is an attack AT
  214. [09:46:40] <MrEsc> So we're saving it for later?
  215. [09:46:40] <Veril> its a movement technique
  216. [09:46:44] <AmazingAmpharos> It's kinda both
  217. [09:46:51] <MrEsc> It seems like something we could discuss right now
  218. [09:47:07] <Strong_Bad> well if you're using DACUS as a movement technique and aren't attacking with it, then IDK what you're doing
  219. [09:47:08] <rPSI> I'm going for simpler ground movement stuff, such as why we excluded craq walk
  220. [09:47:10] <Raziek> We going to consider platform cancelling under aerial movement?
  221. [09:47:14] <AmazingAmpharos> We also have anything having to do with trips or get-up in general
  222. [09:47:23] <Veril> oh yeah EAC platform canceling
  223. [09:47:27] <AmazingAmpharos> Snakes DACUS to move around all the time
  224. [09:47:30] <AmazingAmpharos> the hiboxes aren't even that useful on his
  225. [09:47:34] <AmazingAmpharos> but he moves so fast!
  226. [09:47:37] * IndigoJeans has joined #Smash_Lab
  227. [09:47:43] <rPSI> Get up options etc.
  228. [09:47:54] <DarkDragoon> We probably should have had a list of things posted to go through.
  229. [09:47:56] * IndigoJeans has quit IRC
  230. [09:48:00] <DarkDragoon> >_>
  231. [09:48:02] * T-block has joined #Smash_Lab
  232. [09:48:02] <rPSI> Indigo rage quit again
  233. [09:48:04] <Strong_Bad> techrolls
  234. [09:48:08] <Veril> getup ____ and prone ____
  235. [09:48:11] <T-block> hey guys...sorry i'm late
  236. [09:48:13] <Veril> imo
  237. [09:48:20] <rPSI> prone?
  238. [09:48:22] <MrEsc> It's not a problem, T-Block
  239. [09:48:23] <Veril> since getting up from the back or stomach is possible
  240. [09:48:23] <AmazingAmpharos> your tech roll is actually different from your roll if you lie on the ground and then roll
  241. [09:48:26] <Veril> and varies
  242. [09:48:26] <DarkDragoon> prone = laying down
  243. [09:48:29] <AmazingAmpharos> and also different from your trip role
  244. [09:48:30] <Strong_Bad> true, AA.
  245. [09:48:31] <AmazingAmpharos> roll*
  246. [09:48:34] <Strong_Bad> sliproll
  247. [09:48:35] <Strong_Bad> yes
  248. [09:48:37] <rPSI> alright
  249. [09:48:45] <AmazingAmpharos> Do we want to call them slip rolls or trip rolls?
  250. [09:48:53] <MrEsc> Slip
  251. [09:48:56] <AmazingAmpharos> I always use the explicit term "trip" when talking about anything to do with tripping
  252. [09:48:57] <EA> slip
  253. [09:48:59] <Veril> trip
  254. [09:49:02] <AmazingAmpharos> though I know internally the game uses "slip"
  255. [09:49:05] <Raziek> trip, imo
  256. [09:49:07] <Strong_Bad> DownForwardU, Down ForwardD, DownBackU, DownBackD
  257. [09:49:08] <Bionic> agreed with AA, trip
  258. [09:49:19] <Veril> ^
  259. [09:49:20] <Strong_Bad> ^laying down rolls
  260. [09:49:28] <Veril> getup roll
  261. [09:49:35] * Indigo_Jeans has joined #Smash_Lab
  262. [09:49:44] <Strong_Bad> walljumps
  263. [09:49:45] <rPSI> Done ragequitting Indigo?
  264. [09:49:53] <rPSI> Walljumps would be aerial movement
  265. [09:49:54] <EA> I prefer prone, less confusion with ledge stuff
  266. [09:49:56] <Veril> wall... jumps
  267. [09:49:57] <Strong_Bad> o, i see.
  268. [09:50:05] <Indigo_Jeans> My computer is screwing the connection over
  269. [09:50:08] <rPSI> alright so I have
  270. [09:50:10] <Strong_Bad> ledgerolls?
  271. [09:50:12] <AmazingAmpharos> yeah, prone is a good term to use for the continuous lying down and then acting
  272. [09:50:13] <Veril> ledge options
  273. [09:50:18] <rPSI> Dash
  274. [09:50:23] <rPSI> crap, can't copy paste big stuff
  275. [09:50:24] <AmazingAmpharos> So we would have normal rolls, tech rolls, prone rolls, trip rolls, and ledge rolls
  276. [09:50:27] <AmazingAmpharos> Is that every type of roll?
  277. [09:50:29] * mib_1yudir has joined #Smash_Lab
  278. [09:50:42] * mib_1yudir is now known as rPSIHelper
  279. [09:50:47] <AmazingAmpharos> normal rolls could also be called "shield rolls" if we wanted
  280. [09:50:47] <Strong_Bad> i don't like the term "prone rolls"
  281. [09:50:52] <rPSIHelper> http://mibpaste.com/t57M8a
  282. [09:50:54] <EA> dodge roll
  283. [09:50:55] <Raziek> That seems like AA
  284. [09:51:04] <Veril> dodge roll or just roll
  285. [09:51:10] <Veril> roll with no descriptor
  286. [09:51:14] <Indigo_Jeans> wat
  287. [09:51:16] <Veril> = roll OOS
  288. [09:51:21] <Indigo_Jeans> what is a dodgeroll
  289. [09:51:26] <EA> shield+roll
  290. [09:51:29] <rPSI> what noobs spam
  291. [09:51:37] <Veril> that thing that lets you glide toss
  292. [09:51:38] <T-block> i like dodge roll
  293. [09:51:43] <Indigo_Jeans> shield+roll is just... roll
  294. [09:51:47] <Bionic> everyone's used to the regular term "roll" already
  295. [09:51:50] <T-block> or just "roll"
  296. [09:51:51] <Veril> yeah
  297. [09:51:53] <AmazingAmpharos> When did we discuss Run Break?
  298. [09:52:01] <MrEsc> Let's just stick with "Roll"
  299. [09:52:04] <rPSI> Run Break or Run Stop etc.
  300. [09:52:06] <AmazingAmpharos> Which is I recall, is just stopping while running
  301. [09:52:11] <AmazingAmpharos> hardly even needs a term
  302. [09:52:11] <rPSI> yeah
  303. [09:52:12] <Indigo_Jeans> dodgeroll makes no sense anyhow
  304. [09:52:24] <rPSI> hardly != doesn't
  305. [09:52:25] <Indigo_Jeans> dodge is usually used to refer to shield+down
  306. [09:52:31] <Veril> just say, stop during a run if it comes up
  307. [09:52:35] <rPSI> ALRIGHT WE HAVE DODGEROLL GODD
  308. [09:52:35] <AmazingAmpharos> you're right; I should strengthen my position
  309. [09:52:38] <AmazingAmpharos> I don't think it needs a term
  310. [09:52:54] <Indigo_Jeans> I'm with AA
  311. [09:52:55] <Veril> well not for the public
  312. [09:53:00] <Veril> it needs a technical term
  313. [09:53:01] <rPSI> alright any other ground movements you guys can think up?
  314. [09:53:04] <Indigo_Jeans> it's just letting go of the analog stick
  315. [09:53:06] <Indigo_Jeans> :/
  316. [09:53:23] <MrEsc> DOOP WALKING
  317. [09:53:26] <MrEsc> jk of course
  318. [09:53:29] <AmazingAmpharos> Are we grouping swimming with aerial?
  319. [09:53:30] <Strong_Bad> Run Break?
  320. [09:53:32] <Veril> doop walking = pivot walk
  321. [09:53:37] <rPSI> Swimming can have it's own category
  322. [09:53:37] <Veril> oh
  323. [09:53:39] <Veril> lol
  324. [09:53:42] <Indigo_Jeans> did we go over shield stop?
  325. [09:54:00] <Veril> that sounds dumb
  326. [09:54:07] <Indigo_Jeans> you're dumb
  327. [09:54:12] <Veril> ;_;
  328. [09:54:18] <MrEsc> ouch
  329. [09:54:25] <Veril> [10:57:21] <Bionic> break (for now)
  330. [10:57:24] <Bionic> me and rPSI are playing transformice
  331. [10:57:29] <Bionic> leaf and ankoku are playing iamp
  332. [10:57:40] * IndigoJeans has joined #Smash_Lab
  333. [10:57:43] <Ankoku> not yet we aren't :V
  334. [10:57:53] <Indigo_Jeans> transformice...
  335. [10:58:02] <Indigo_Jeans> haven't had a chance to play it yet
  336. [10:58:05] <Indigo_Jeans> :C
  337. egit
  338. [09:54:51] <Veril> staying the same
  339. [09:54:52] <Veril> ?
  340. [09:54:53] <Indigo_Jeans> so melee-ish
  341. [09:54:54] <rPSI> Wouldn't it be Dash canceling Shield?
  342. [09:54:58] <MrEsc> which would include DACUS and Glidetossing?
  343. [09:55:06] <AmazingAmpharos> and sliding fsmashes on ice even
  344. [09:55:11] <rPSI> or do I have semantics mixed up?
  345. [09:55:14] <AmazingAmpharos> I think we're doing that all on attacking
  346. [09:55:16] <Strong_Bad> stutter step lolz
  347. [09:55:38] <Veril> stutter step is an AT
  348. [09:55:39] <Indigo_Jeans> sliding ice FSmash is just canceling dash with FSmash
  349. [09:55:47] <Strong_Bad> ^
  350. [09:55:48] <rPSI> yeah, it' sjust stutterstep
  351. [09:55:51] <AmazingAmpharos> yeah, and wavedashing was just canceling an airdodge with landing
  352. [09:55:52] <Strong_Bad> what about like platform drops.
  353. [09:55:54] <Indigo_Jeans> momentum is just multiplied by lower traction
  354. [09:55:58] <Bionic> I think I recall there being a dash attack canceling glide toss, no?
  355. [09:55:58] <AmazingAmpharos> nothing in smash is that complicated
  356. [09:55:58] <rPSI> I believe we're done with ground movement stuff
  357. [09:55:59] <Veril> but basically just short and long dash dances + f-smash
  358. [09:56:03] <Veril> or w/e
  359. [09:56:05] <Strong_Bad> what about like platform drops.
  360. [09:56:15] <Veril> platform drop cancel
  361. [09:56:19] <Veril> actually makes sense
  362. [09:56:20] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Aerial Movement (Basic)'
  363. [09:56:26] <Veril> oh snap
  364. [09:56:28] <Indigo_Jeans> EAC pseudowavelanding
  365. [09:56:30] <Indigo_Jeans> <3
  366. [09:56:34] <rPSI> LOL IJ
  367. [09:56:41] <Veril> I'm using that term
  368. [09:56:42] <Veril> cause
  369. [09:56:43] <AmazingAmpharos> I assume we're also thinking about non-offensive specials alongside attacks?
  370. [09:56:44] <Veril> I want to
  371. [09:56:46] <Veril> idk
  372. [09:56:47] <AmazingAmpharos> like the PT's instant switch?
  373. [09:56:51] <Veril> I have no justification
  374. [09:56:53] <rPSI> Basic...
  375. [09:57:06] <MrEsc> Jumping, foot stool jumps
  376. [09:57:09] <Indigo_Jeans> totally not bandwagoning with Veril
  377. [09:57:21] <MrEsc> wall jumps, wall clings, wall techs, wall tech jumps?
  378. [09:57:24] <Indigo_Jeans> But srsly...
  379. [09:57:26] <AmazingAmpharos> we need to be precise with "mid-air jumps" and such
  380. [09:57:29] <T-block> sorry, someone fill me in - are we doing a separate list with more colloquial terms?
  381. [09:57:30] <AmazingAmpharos> since people say double jump and triple jump
  382. [09:57:40] <Indigo_Jeans> sliding ice FSmash is basically stutterstep
  383. [09:57:41] <AmazingAmpharos> but you have Meta Knight and such who can jump far more than three times and have many recovery options
  384. [09:57:42] <Veril> jump #
  385. [09:57:49] <rPSI> we should just use the term mid-air jump#
  386. [09:57:57] <AmazingAmpharos> and "recovery specials"?
  387. [09:57:58] <MrEsc> Yeah
  388. [09:58:02] <Indigo_Jeans> MAJ#
  389. [09:58:03] <Strong_Bad> shorthop, full hop
  390. [09:58:03] <Indigo_Jeans> ?
  391. [09:58:05] <AmazingAmpharos> to not be discriminating about whether it's an up special or not?
  392. [09:58:07] <rPSI> BASIC... T_T
  393. [09:58:11] <Ankoku> I haven't heard of "triple jump" since Smash 64
  394. [09:58:16] <AmazingAmpharos> A recovery special is pretty basic...
  395. [09:58:18] <Ankoku> People seriously still use that?
  396. [09:58:23] <rPSI> well yeah
  397. [09:58:28] <Indigo_Jeans> I know I don't
  398. [09:58:29] <AmazingAmpharos> I hear it more than sex kick!
  399. [09:58:29] <Indigo_Jeans> >__>
  400. [09:58:30] <Veril> triple jump lol
  401. [09:58:31] <rPSI> I thought you meant to get specific about them AA
  402. [09:58:32] <Veril> no
  403. [09:58:32] <rPSI> lol
  404. [09:58:36] <Veril> I never hear that
  405. [09:58:36] <Bionic> lmao
  406. [09:58:37] <Indigo_Jeans> Sex kick is a legit term
  407. [09:58:42] <Veril> ^
  408. [09:58:53] <MrEsc> lol not sex kicks again
  409. [09:58:55] <MrEsc> xD
  410. [09:58:59] <Bionic> <_>
  411. [09:59:00] <Veril> sex kick 4ever
  412. [09:59:01] * TheMike has joined #Smash_Lab
  413. [09:59:10] <Indigo_Jeans> gad this topic moves too fast
  414. [09:59:13] <Bionic> stupidly named term is stupid -shrug-
  415. [09:59:19] <AmazingAmpharos> we also have another point of subtlty
  416. [09:59:26] <Ankoku> What, would you prefer "meaty"?
  417. [09:59:28] <AmazingAmpharos> air control versus DI versus SDI versus aSDI
  418. [09:59:29] <TheMike> has the chat begun?
  419. [09:59:30] <MrEsc> So, Shorthops/Fullhops -> Mid-Air Jumps#
  420. [09:59:33] <AmazingAmpharos> versus fastfalling even
  421. [09:59:36] <Veril> oh drifting
  422. [09:59:41] <Veril> didn't we agree on that?
  423. [09:59:45] <T-block> DI/SDI/aSDI are fine imo
  424. [09:59:51] <T-block> air control -> drifting
  425. [09:59:52] <Strong_Bad> are you guys seriously including DI as a movement option?
  426. [09:59:54] <Veril> QCDI?
  427. [09:59:59] <MrEsc> Drifting is good
  428. [10:00:02] <AmazingAmpharos> Well, a lot of people don't understand the difference
  429. [10:00:06] <Veril> who cares what kind of option it is
  430. [10:00:07] <AmazingAmpharos> between air control and DI
  431. [10:00:07] <rPSI> I believe we have decided on drifting
  432. [10:00:10] <Indigo_Jeans> technical term for sex kick maybe decayin aerial
  433. [10:00:10] <Indigo_Jeans> ?
  434. [10:00:16] <rPSI> air control is drifting
  435. [10:00:18] <Indigo_Jeans> Airwalking <3
  436. [10:00:18] <AmazingAmpharos> drifting is a decent enough term
  437. [10:00:26] <T-block> i hear people using "DI" to mean air control quite a bit
  438. [10:00:28] <Bionic> agreed
  439. [10:00:28] <Ankoku> Decaying aerial would be confused with attack decay, likely
  440. [10:00:35] <Strong_Bad> it's so annoying when people do that.
  441. [10:00:36] <Indigo_Jeans> drifting because I've heard people use floating
  442. [10:00:48] <Indigo_Jeans> er...
  443. [10:00:48] <Strong_Bad> decaying aerial applies to soooo many moves.
  444. [10:00:52] <rPSI> drifting is the best description
  445. [10:00:58] <Indigo_Jeans> weakining aerial?
  446. [10:01:01] <Veril> drifting is air control during tumble
  447. [10:01:05] <Strong_Bad> that applies to SOOOO many moves IJ
  448. [10:01:09] <Strong_Bad> even like DK's bair.
  449. [10:01:18] <rPSI> BTW, I like how Mr. Esc brings up the names so it's easy for me :3c
  450. [10:01:23] <Ankoku> I don't see any problem with sex kick, honestly, if you want to rename it you can just call it a "meaty" like other fighters do
  451. [10:01:23] <Indigo_Jeans> well it is a sex kick
  452. [10:01:25] <Indigo_Jeans> :p
  453. [10:01:28] <Indigo_Jeans> :P
  454. [10:01:30] <Strong_Bad> bairs are enver a sex kick
  455. [10:01:34] <Strong_Bad> *never
  456. [10:01:37] * Tblock has joined #Smash_Lab
  457. [10:01:38] <MrEsc> You are welcome
  458. [10:01:39] <Ankoku> Strong_Bad: Sheik bair
  459. [10:01:41] * T-block has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  460. [10:01:45] <Veril> you're wrong
  461. [10:01:45] <Strong_Bad> not a sex kick.
  462. [10:01:50] <Veril> Strong bad that's not true
  463. [10:01:50] <rPSI> oh my god
  464. [10:01:52] <AmazingAmpharos> I never really considered it needed a term
  465. [10:01:56] <DarkDragoon> >_>
  466. [10:01:57] <rPSI> STFU ABOUT SEX KICKS
  467. [10:02:04] <AmazingAmpharos> Some move have lingering hitboxes that change with time
  468. [10:02:06] <Indigo_Jeans> weak hit of shiek bair is a different hitbox iirc
  469. [10:02:13] <AmazingAmpharos> Where is the need for a term in that?
  470. [10:02:14] <MrEsc> what is even with you guys and sexkicks
  471. [10:02:29] <Tblock> lol
  472. [10:02:30] <AmazingAmpharos> It's kinda my fault
  473. [10:02:32] <rPSI> they like using the word sex
  474. [10:02:35] <Strong_Bad> there's no real "sex kick" property; there's no like equation for how strong the attack is based on how long it's been out, it just starts out strong and then gets weaker eventually.
  475. [10:02:38] <Ankoku> Also, Wario bair
  476. [10:02:38] <Tblock> that term confused the hell out of me when i first joined competitive melee
  477. [10:02:42] * TheMike has quit IRC
  478. [10:02:50] <Tblock> doc's n-air in melee got stronger
  479. [10:02:51] <Strong_Bad> unless you're Doctor Mario.
  480. [10:02:51] <AmazingAmpharos> so let's consider other aerial movement
  481. [10:02:55] * ChanServ changes topic to 'NO FUCKING SEX KICKS STUF'
  482. [10:03:16] <AmazingAmpharos> Okay, I don't think I'm confortable in a topic with the words "FUCKING SEX" in the title
  483. [10:03:19] <AmazingAmpharos> #Smash_Porn
  484. [10:03:25] <DarkDragoon> lololol
  485. [10:03:28] <leaf> so guys
  486. [10:03:28] <leaf> sex kicks
  487. [10:03:31] <Indigo_Jeans> doctor mario
  488. [10:03:31] <Tblock> are we getting into aerials that change your trajectory and stuff
  489. [10:03:33] <Tblock> brb supper
  490. [10:03:35] <Indigo_Jeans> gad I hate him
  491. [10:03:37] <rPSIHelper> http://mibpaste.com/5El7zr
  492. [10:03:41] <Veril> oh yeah
  493. [10:03:42] <MrEsc> Wall jumps and Wall clings are pretty simple, but what do we call the jump out of a wall tech? A wall tech jump?
  494. [10:03:43] <leaf> earlier someone suggested to call them lingering hitboxes
  495. [10:03:44] <Strong_Bad> yeah okay T-Block, and it starts with 10 damage and then after 20 frames it becomes 14 damage.
  496. [10:03:44] <leaf> uh...
  497. [10:03:45] <leaf> what
  498. [10:03:47] <Veril> that's actually a good thing to bring up
  499. [10:03:54] <AmazingAmpharos> wall jump is actually something to talk about in general
  500. [10:03:55] <Veril> aerials that influence momentum
  501. [10:03:59] <leaf> a lingering hitbox implies
  502. [10:04:00] <rPSI> Strong bad, stop
  503. [10:04:02] <Strong_Bad> k.
  504. [10:04:02] <AmazingAmpharos> some people mention jumping as you tech a wall as wall jumping
  505. [10:04:02] <leaf> singular
  506. [10:04:10] <leaf> as in, only one hitbox that lasts a long time
  507. [10:04:11] <AmazingAmpharos> but it's different from a basic wall jump like, say, Fox can do
  508. [10:04:16] <leaf> sex kicks specifically change to a weaker hitbox
  509. [10:04:19] <Strong_Bad> walltechjump is different than normal walljump
  510. [10:04:21] <rPSI> Wall Tech Jump works best.... LEAFFFFF
  511. [10:04:38] <Ankoku> Wall tech jump is fine
  512. [10:04:41] <leaf> also, prone rolling is a dumb term
  513. [10:04:41] <MrEsc> I think Wall Tech Jump is the best way to describe it
  514. [10:04:45] <leaf> it's just a getup roll
  515. [10:04:47] <rPSI> alright, so did everyone see teh pastebin?
  516. [10:04:57] <Ankoku> I prefer wakeup roll
  517. [10:05:03] <Bionic> I did
  518. [10:05:04] <leaf> or that
  519. [10:05:07] <leaf> that works too
  520. [10:05:09] <Strong_Bad> jump start should be jump squat imo
  521. [10:05:10] <Ankoku> to distinguish between "wakeup" (on the ground) and "getup" (on the ledge)
  522. [10:05:11] <MrEsc> wakeup roll sounds a lot better
  523. [10:05:13] <leaf> it's actually more descriptive
  524. [10:05:16] <EA> wakeup works
  525. [10:05:19] <AmazingAmpharos> I always called it "initial jump"
  526. [10:05:22] <Veril> jump squat
  527. [10:05:24] <leaf> since getup rolls sounds like it could be the ledge
  528. [10:05:24] <leaf> yeah
  529. [10:05:24] <leaf> ok
  530. [10:05:27] <Veril> is a term we should not use
  531. [10:05:29] <AmazingAmpharos> squat makes it sound like it has to do with crouching
  532. [10:05:31] <EA> [10:05:10] <Ankoku> to distinguish between "wakeup" (on the ground) and "getup" (on the ledge)  <-- also this, qft
  533. [10:05:33] <AmazingAmpharos> which it obviously does not
  534. [10:05:40] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Basic Aerial Movement'
  535. [10:05:41] <MrEsc> Ledge jump is something we didn't mention, too
  536. [10:05:41] <Veril> jump start is better
  537. [10:05:51] <leaf> although we should still include getup roll as a colloquial term
  538. [10:05:53] <MrEsc> as well as dropping from the ledge/holding away
  539. [10:05:54] <Strong_Bad> but characters do go into crouching animation during jumpsquat
  540. [10:05:55] <rPSI> Ledge stuff should have it's own section
  541. [10:05:56] <Strong_Bad> it makes sense.
  542. [10:06:00] <MrEsc> Okay
  543. [10:06:02] <AmazingAmpharos> ledge attack, ledge roll, ledge climb, ledge drop, ledge jump
  544. [10:06:04] <AmazingAmpharos> that's every ledge action
  545. [10:06:05] <Ankoku> What's jump squat?
  546. [10:06:11] <AmazingAmpharos> ledges are covered with that I think
  547. [10:06:12] <Veril> it varies by %
  548. [10:06:13] <leaf> jumpstart
  549. [10:06:17] <Veril> ledge attack
  550. [10:06:18] <Strong_Bad> the frames after you input a jump and before you are airborne
  551. [10:06:20] <leaf> brb
  552. [10:06:26] <Veril> there's two versions
  553. [10:06:29] <AmazingAmpharos> actually, all ledge actions except drop vary by percentage
  554. [10:06:30] <rPSI> I'm sure Veril can write a huge shitload on ledge stuff haha
  555. [10:06:34] <Veril> yeah
  556. [10:06:38] <Ankoku> except ledge drop
  557. [10:06:44] <AmazingAmpharos> which is what I said
  558. [10:06:46] <Strong_Bad> yes, there are two versions. 1 of 100% or higher, and one of 0-99%
  559. [10:06:47] <MrEsc> They vary all at 100%, right?
  560. [10:06:49] <Ankoku> right
  561. [10:06:51] <AmazingAmpharos> yeah, the point is 100% always
  562. [10:06:53] <Strong_Bad> for all characters
  563. [10:06:55] <Tblock> ledgehop is used a lot
  564. [10:07:00] <Tblock> usually to refer to ledge drop double jump
  565. [10:07:02] <AmazingAmpharos> I never use the term "ledge hop"
  566. [10:07:08] <Strong_Bad> ledgejump, ledgeroll, and get up, and ledgeattack
  567. [10:07:08] <AmazingAmpharos> it's ambiguous
  568. [10:07:09] <Ankoku> (8:06:21 PM) Strong_Bad: the frames after you input a jump and before you are airborne <-- This isn't just the jump startup?
  569. [10:07:11] <MrEsc> I use Ledge hop
  570. [10:07:12] <Tblock> i use it quite a bit
  571. [10:07:17] <Tblock> although i'm not sure i agree with it lol
  572. [10:07:18] <Strong_Bad> Jumpsquat /is/ the jump start up.
  573. [10:07:20] <Veril> I use both
  574. [10:07:24] <Veril> arbitrarily
  575. [10:07:26] <Veril> who cares
  576. [10:07:29] <Ankoku> Why does that need a term?
  577. [10:07:34] <AmazingAmpharos> If I do say it, I mean ledge jumping
  578. [10:07:35] <Veril> cause its an action
  579. [10:07:40] <Strong_Bad> it apparently does according to the mibpaste.
  580. [10:07:44] <AmazingAmpharos> which is not what you mean T-Block
  581. [10:07:47] <Tblock> i don't think it needs an official term
  582. [10:08:02] <Veril> its just not something we need to discuss
  583. [10:08:02] <rPSI> this is basic stuff, if newbs who see people say ledgehop f-air vs. Ledge jump f-air they might get confused
  584. [10:08:03] <AmazingAmpharos> we should just spell it out
  585. [10:08:09] <AmazingAmpharos> ledge drop mid-air jump fair
  586. [10:08:09] <Tblock> i thought we were making a colloquial terms list?
  587. [10:08:11] <MrEsc> For basic aerial movement, do you guys think we have everything covered?
  588. [10:08:15] <Tblock> isn't this all official smash lab stuff for now?
  589. [10:08:27] <rPSI> right now it's public release stuff
  590. [10:08:29] <AmazingAmpharos> maybe a note that "sometimes ledge dropping and immediately doing a mid-air jump is referred to as a ledge hop"
  591. [10:08:33] <Tblock> oh okay
  592. [10:08:46] <Tblock> then i think we should include ledge hop
  593. [10:08:47] <Strong_Bad> ledgehop is well-known.
  594. [10:08:53] <AmazingAmpharos> always confused me
  595. [10:08:58] <AmazingAmpharos> I assumed they were talking about the ledge jump
  596. [10:08:59] <Veril> ledgehop is better
  597. [10:09:01] <AmazingAmpharos> which isn't very useful
  598. [10:09:03] <rPSI> alright, I believe we are done with Ledge mechanics
  599. [10:09:10] <Strong_Bad> wait
  600. [10:09:10] <Ankoku> ledge jump has its uses
  601. [10:09:11] <Tblock> also, is momentum cancelling and all its forms considered basic aerial movement?
  602. [10:09:12] <Strong_Bad> what about ledgegrab
  603. [10:09:13] <rPSI> unless Veril wants to get into more
  604. [10:09:14] <Ankoku> compared to Melee, anyway
  605. [10:09:14] <AmazingAmpharos> yeah, it's not useless
  606. [10:09:16] <Strong_Bad> ledgegrab dawg.
  607. [10:09:19] <AmazingAmpharos> just limited
  608. [10:09:23] <Veril> ledgegrab has a lot of crazy stuff
  609. [10:09:32] <MrEsc> Good point
  610. [10:09:33] <AmazingAmpharos> and we could even get into planking and scrooging here
  611. [10:09:34] <Ankoku> Ledge jump is almost never intentional in Melee :V
  612. [10:09:34] <Veril> that rPSI would probably rather I not delve into
  613. [10:09:35] <Veril> atm
  614. [10:09:41] <rPSI> atm
  615. [10:09:42] <Veril> cause I will derail this
  616. [10:09:43] <Veril> so hard
  617. [10:09:45] <Veril> with that
  618. [10:09:47] <rPSI> perhaps a thread would do best
  619. [10:09:55] <Tblock> okay dinner for real now...brb
  620. [10:09:56] <rPSI> just for the terminology portion
  621. [10:10:00] <MrEsc> Oh, so no ledge grab atm?
  622. [10:10:09] <AmazingAmpharos> and tether ledge mechanics?
  623. [10:10:11] <AmazingAmpharos> Any terms in there?
  624. [10:10:23] <Veril> tether grab ≠ tether ledge grab
  625. [10:10:31] <rPSI> let's just leave veril with ledge grab shit
  626. [10:10:32] <Veril> I think that's the only clarification we have to make
  627. [10:10:41] <Veril> ok word
  628. [10:10:43] <MrEsc> ok rPSI
  629. [10:10:44] <AmazingAmpharos> on that note, do we distinguish between normal tethers and special moves that behave as tethers?
  630. [10:10:55] <MrEsc> I don't think we do
  631. [10:10:57] <Veril> nah
  632. [10:10:58] <AmazingAmpharos> like Lucas's tether attack versus ZSS's up special?
  633. [10:10:59] <Strong_Bad> they act the same.
  634. [10:11:05] <Strong_Bad> after 3 times they don't work
  635. [10:11:09] <rPSI> they act the same as ledge grabs
  636. [10:11:18] * Indigo_Jeans has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  637. [10:11:31] <AmazingAmpharos> the game does treat a tether ledge grab the same way as a normal ledge grab
  638. [10:11:35] <AmazingAmpharos> it uses different action IDs at least
  639. [10:11:42] <Veril> tether ledge grabs are tether ledgegrabs
  640. [10:11:45] <AmazingAmpharos> I dunno if they even appear on the ledge grab count at the end of match
  641. [10:11:48] <Veril> whether from a special or a zair
  642. [10:12:01] <Veril> they work the same
  643. [10:12:10] <rPSI> SO NO DIFFERENTION ON THAT PART GOT IT?
  644. [10:12:17] <AmazingAmpharos> yeah, I was past that
  645. [10:12:24] <rPSI> (is there a way I can make my color different?)
  646. [10:12:24] <Strong_Bad> ledge grab count? what appears is if you tether then hit a
  647. [10:12:35] <Strong_Bad> if you just tether and hang there or let go & die or w/e it doesn't count.
  648. [10:12:37] <Ankoku> Tether ledge grabs... don't you have less "forced ledge-holding time" than you do from a normal ledge grab?
  649. [10:12:43] <Bionic> I think Mibbit does colors
  650. [10:12:53] <MrEsc> It does
  651. [10:12:55] <DarkDragoon> mibbit is doing colors
  652. [10:12:56] <rPSIHelper> Oh
  653. [10:12:57] <Strong_Bad> no, Ankoku. it still goes into cliffcatch.
  654. [10:13:04] <rPSI> rPSI helper is the Mibbit one
  655. [10:13:19] <leaf> this is gonna be as bad as an aim chat soon >_>
  656. [10:13:22] <Veril> there are different ledge drop times for different character, basically tethers and pikachu
  657. [10:13:23] <rPSI> please don't use colors so I can reserve it for official statmetns
  658. [10:13:27] <Veril> so yes
  659. [10:13:31] <leaf> if everyone uses a different color
  660. [10:13:36] <Ankoku> Thanks for that info, Veril
  661. [10:13:41] <Veril> np
  662. [10:13:43] <rPSI> NO ONE BUT ME IS ALLOWED TO USE COLORS
  663. [10:13:44] <Strong_Bad> in melee, ledgegrab took 8 frames for all characters except Link, took 4 frames for Link.
  664. [10:13:49] <MrEsc> I think we can just not use colors
  665. [10:13:50] <Strong_Bad> idk about brawl
  666. [10:13:50] <rPSIHelper> NO ONE
  667. [10:13:57] <MrEsc> it's not hard to see who typed what
  668. [10:14:08] <leaf> mhmm
  669. [10:14:08] <Ankoku> Pidgin doesn't let me do any font settings haha
  670. [10:14:10] <AmazingAmpharos> I know the time you can't regrab a ledge is very close to your total ledge invincibility if you let go ASAP
  671. [10:14:11] <Bionic> moving on...
  672. [10:14:12] <leaf> moving on then
  673. [10:14:17] <MrEsc> Mibbit even highlights all a person said if you hover your cursor over their name
  674. [10:14:20] <AmazingAmpharos> pidgin lets me do font settings
  675. [10:14:25] <AmazingAmpharos> but rPSI would freak out if I did
  676. [10:14:25] <rPSIHelper> moving on from ledgegrab mechanics
  677. [10:14:27] <AmazingAmpharos> I think he's already dying
  678. [10:14:28] <rPSIHelper> including tethers
  679. [10:14:38] <Strong_Bad> disabled ledge regrab time is equal to ledge invinc
  680. [10:14:42] <AmazingAmpharos> so swimming is our last movement topic?
  681. [10:14:45] <AmazingAmpharos> it's a simple topic
  682. [10:14:51] <MrEsc> very simple
  683. [10:15:00] <Strong_Bad> u can move left right jump or die
  684. [10:15:02] <Strong_Bad> :D
  685. [10:15:03] <Raziek> I think so, yeah. It's just the movement and the surfacing animations, right?
  686. [10:15:10] <rPSI> I believe AA is the best for getting all the terms of swimming
  687. [10:15:14] <AmazingAmpharos> that's all it is mechanically
  688. [10:15:22] <rPSI> (seeing he handled the swimming mechanics in BBrawl?)
  689. [10:15:37] <Veril> you altered swimming?
  690. [10:15:44] <Ankoku> wait
  691. [10:15:49] <AmazingAmpharos> mechanically, you have a swimming to the surface animation, you then reach the surface and do a very brief animation, and then you tread water until you make yourself swim left or right
  692. [10:15:51] <Ankoku> you have limited swim time, don't you?
  693. [10:15:53] <AmazingAmpharos> after enough time, you go into a floudering state
  694. [10:16:02] <MrEsc> He got rid of rudder stalling and water stalling is limited
  695. [10:16:07] <AmazingAmpharos> you go into that state earlier at higher damage, but the state itself is fixed in duration for all damages
  696. [10:16:11] <Bionic> how many frames within each?
  697. [10:16:12] <AmazingAmpharos> and then you drown if you stay in the water
  698. [10:16:23] <AmazingAmpharos> I eventually changed it to auto-drown you with too many consecutive water entries
  699. [10:16:27] <Ankoku> Also, "floundering state" seems to persist even if you jump out of the water and back in, for a while
  700. [10:16:29] <AmazingAmpharos> but at one time I made the floudering state auto-drown
  701. [10:16:44] <AmazingAmpharos> yeah, you don't reset your ability to swim normally until you touch ground
  702. [10:16:51] <Strong_Bad> yeah it could be similar to Mario's cape
  703. [10:16:53] <Strong_Bad> aerial
  704. [10:16:55] <rPSI> AA, can you compile the list of terms for swimming?
  705. [10:17:18] <AmazingAmpharos> "surfacing", "swimming", "floundering", "drowning"
  706. [10:17:19] <Ankoku> That reminds me, jumping out of the water isn't counted as a mid-air jump
  707. [10:17:24] <AmazingAmpharos> unless we want to make special mention of rudder stalling
  708. [10:17:38] <AmazingAmpharos> which is just interrupting surfacing with an object to get stuck doing it forever
  709. [10:17:46] <MrEsc> Yeah, Ankoku. Good thing, too, otherwise Japes would be retarded
  710. [10:18:04] <MrEsc> There's no need to mention Rudder Stalling
  711. [10:18:06] <Strong_Bad> japes has really fast moving watter tho
  712. [10:18:06] <MrEsc> IMO
  713. [10:18:08] <Strong_Bad> :x
  714. [10:18:12] <AmazingAmpharos> any issues with that listing rPSI?
  715. [10:18:19] <rPSI> no issues
  716. [10:18:27] <MrEsc> Alright, what's next?
  717. [10:18:28] <Raziek> I agree with that
  718. [10:18:36] <rPSI> AA, do you think you can make a thread for public release about water mechanics?
  719. [10:18:55] <AmazingAmpharos> easily, but I would want to refresh my knowledge of numbers
  720. [10:19:01] <rPSI> sort of as I hope Veril will do so for ledgegrabbing
  721. [10:19:03] <rPSI> great
  722. [10:19:08] <AmazingAmpharos> at one time, I knew the exact percentage at which normal swimming only lasts one frame
  723. [10:19:19] <rPSI> I'm definitely making one for missed techs :3c
  724. [10:19:20] <AmazingAmpharos> (even at 999%, you always get that frame)
  725. [10:19:44] <rPSI> alright
  726. [10:19:46] <Veril> I can do ledge options
  727. [10:19:48] <rPSI> so we have basic movement
  728. [10:19:49] <rPSI> hurrah!
  729. [10:20:16] <MrEsc> How about basic shield stuff?
  730. [10:20:17] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Ground Movement AT's'
  731. [10:20:25] <MrEsc> that is good too
  732. [10:20:27] <Veril> I actually already did most of shield stuff
  733. [10:20:35] <Veril> and was in the process of revising
  734. [10:20:42] <MrEsc> Great to hear
  735. [10:20:48] <Ankoku> Is it Perfect Shielding then? Never checked back on what term was agreed upon.
  736. [10:21:19] <AmazingAmpharos> perfect shield and power shield are both universally understood and unambiguous
  737. [10:21:19] <Veril> "shrug"
  738. [10:21:23] <rPSI> Ground Movement AT's now Ankoku
  739. [10:21:33] <Veril> yay
  740. [10:21:49] <AmazingAmpharos> On record for not liking "AT" being a special thing
  741. [10:21:51] <AmazingAmpharos> Is there even such a thing?
  742. [10:21:58] <Veril> yeah
  743. [10:22:01] <rPSI> perhaps we should define AT
  744. [10:22:03] <AmazingAmpharos> You have basic techniques
  745. [10:22:06] <rPSI> or use a different term
  746. [10:22:09] <AmazingAmpharos> and you have useful combinations of basic techniques
  747. [10:22:12] <Strong_Bad> defining advanced technique is really really hard to do
  748. [10:22:13] <AmazingAmpharos> and that's the game
  749. [10:22:17] <Veril> DAC is very specific
  750. [10:22:23] <Veril> there are also very specific glitches
  751. [10:22:31] <Veril> I think those qualify as AT
  752. [10:22:33] <Veril> pivot
  753. [10:22:35] <Veril> whatever
  754. [10:22:42] <Veril> I don't see that as "AT"
  755. [10:22:47] <rPSI> Alright
  756. [10:22:52] <AmazingAmpharos> So you're defining advanced by obscurity?
  757. [10:22:55] <AmazingAmpharos> Is utility necessary?
  758. [10:23:01] <Veril> nope
  759. [10:23:04] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Ground Movement (advanced)'
  760. [10:23:08] <AmazingAmpharos> The Pit boards want to know if useless techniques can be advanced techniques
  761. [10:23:21] <Veril> yes
  762. [10:23:31] <AmazingAmpharos> in that case, Pit is a very advanced character
  763. [10:23:38] <Veril> advanced in a pointless way
  764. [10:23:41] <rPSI> Should we ditch the term AT?  Come up with a different term?
  765. [10:23:45] <Veril> nope
  766. [10:23:49] <Veril> its dumb
  767. [10:23:51] <Veril> but works
  768. [10:24:01] <Veril> I just think it should be limited
  769. [10:24:14] <Veril> ok, is glide tossing an AT?
  770. [10:24:17] <rPSI> alright so let's get back into Advanced Ground Movement
  771. [10:24:20] <Veril> I think that's a good benchmark
  772. [10:24:29] <Veril> for figuring out where we stand
  773. [10:24:33] <Raziek> I would consider glide tossing an AT, personally
  774. [10:24:33] <rPSI> Yes
  775. [10:24:44] <rPSI> When a move has a specific IASA
  776. [10:24:46] <rPSI> it's an AT
  777. [10:24:49] <Veril> ^
  778. [10:24:56] <AmazingAmpharos> all specific interrupts are ATs to you?
  779. [10:25:07] <Veril> only one's in unusual places
  780. [10:25:11] <Strong_Bad> why do people say specific IASA rather than specific interrupt
  781. [10:25:22] <leaf> because it's the same thing
  782. [10:25:25] <rPSI> IASA is faster typing
  783. [10:25:26] <Strong_Bad> no, it's really now.
  784. [10:25:28] <Veril> fewer letters bro
  785. [10:25:28] <Strong_Bad> not*
  786. [10:25:31] <AmazingAmpharos> the "ASA" doesn't actually mean anything
  787. [10:25:33] <leaf> AA: in general, yes
  788. [10:25:37] <AmazingAmpharos> the "I" for interrupt is th eonly expressive part
  789. [10:25:42] <Veril> just use E
  790. [10:25:44] <Veril> for early
  791. [10:25:46] <leaf> shield cancel, jump cancel, or whatever cancel
  792. [10:25:50] <leaf> is generally an AT
  793. [10:25:52] <Strong_Bad> yo this is a smash dictionary, it's important.
  794. [10:25:59] <Veril> ;p
  795. [10:26:00] <Bionic> I thought it was interruptable as soon as >_>?
  796. [10:26:06] <Veril> yeah
  797. [10:26:07] <Raziek> ^
  798. [10:26:19] <leaf> that's what it stands for, yeah
  799. [10:26:29] <leaf> although it's almost never used in a context where that phrasing makes sense lol
  800. [10:26:33] <Veril> IASA is a sloppy term
  801. [10:26:55] <rPSI> Cans someone pastebin what we have so far so we don't lose it?
  802. [10:26:58] <Veril> when specific iasa's become involved
  803. [10:27:06] <EA> I have logging on
  804. [10:27:12] <rPSI> thanks
  805. [10:27:16] <Veril> iasa is good as just a universal term for canceling
  806. [10:27:21] <MrEsc> I'm back, I went to grab a bite to eat
  807. [10:27:32] <MrEsc> Still on ground AT's?
  808. [10:27:36] <leaf> IASA is one of those terms that gets used a lot, and most everyone knows what it means, but it doesn't actually get used in ways that make sense with its rigorous defnition
  809. [10:27:40] <Veril> but people generally use it for the First non-restricted Actionable Frames
  810. [10:28:13] <rPSI> it's pretty much one of those nearly ingrained words now, but used wrong most times
  811. [10:28:26] <Veril> it has IASA into
  812. [10:28:28] <Veril> = cancel
  813. [10:28:33] <Veril> people use it a lot
  814. [10:28:37] <Veril> I use it a lot
  815. [10:28:44] <AmazingAmpharos> IASA should probably be reserved for times you are free to cancel into anything
  816. [10:28:49] <Strong_Bad> i ususally just say IASA frame
  817. [10:28:52] <AmazingAmpharos> as opposed to specific interrupts
  818. [10:29:08] <Strong_Bad> [07:27pm]   <Veril> but people generally use it for the First non-restricted Actionable Frames
  819. [10:29:08] <leaf> saying something "has iasa" isn't even technically a correct way to phrase it, but it's the way the term has evolved
  820. [10:29:09] <Strong_Bad> pretty much
  821. [10:29:10] <leaf> so w/e
  822. [10:29:13] <leaf> let's just go with it
  823. [10:29:35] <Strong_Bad> fnraf
  824. [10:29:36] <Strong_Bad> new term
  825. [10:29:43] <Veril> or FAF
  826. [10:29:44] <Strong_Bad> first non-restricted actionable frame
  827. [10:29:45] <Veril> old term
  828. [10:29:50] <rPSI> lolumad new term IMO
  829. [10:30:06] <leaf> lol
  830. [10:30:12] <rPSIHelper> enough with the IASA discussion
  831. [10:30:30] <Strong_Bad> k
  832. [10:30:48] <rPSI> alright, back to ground movement
  833. [10:30:50] * leaf says something about iasa
  834. [10:30:54] <Tblock> hallo i'm back
  835. [10:30:57] * rPSI kills leaf
  836. [10:30:59] <leaf> =p
  837. [10:31:16] <rPSI> alright so for Ground Movement (advanced) we have
  838. [10:31:21] <rPSI> DAC(s)
  839. [10:31:25] <rPSI> Glide Tossing
  840. [10:31:26] * leaf thinks it's only a flesh wound
  841. [10:31:30] <rPSI> Craq Walk
  842. [10:31:33] <DarkDragoon> >_>
  843. [10:31:35] <Veril> no
  844. [10:31:42] <Veril> landing pivot walk
  845. [10:31:43] <Veril> plz
  846. [10:31:45] <rPSI> k
  847. [10:31:48] <leaf> craq walk
  848. [10:31:50] <Tblock> squirtle needs his own section imo
  849. [10:31:50] <Tblock> =P
  850. [10:31:51] <leaf> is a horrible term
  851. [10:31:55] <Ankoku> Craq Walk lol
  852. [10:31:57] <leaf> just like dlx hit cancel
  853. [10:31:59] <MrEsc> Where does RARing fit in?
  854. [10:31:59] <Tblock> and yes, craq walk is terrible
  855. [10:32:00] <Bionic> definitely agreed w/ veril
  856. [10:32:01] <DarkDragoon> is RAR
  857. [10:32:06] <DarkDragoon> ground or air
  858. [10:32:06] <Ankoku> We should call it the SCOTU Slide!
  859. [10:32:06] <DarkDragoon> xD
  860. [10:32:08] <leaf> some idiot that discovered something near useless
  861. [10:32:10] <leaf> naming it after themselves
  862. [10:32:26] <Ankoku> Just wondering, where's the "rush" part of a Reverse Aerial Rush?
  863. [10:32:29] <rPSI> right now I'd prefer we stick with universal until we get into character stuff and speicasl
  864. [10:32:33] <MrEsc> Doop Walking > Pivot Walking (not really but dat name <3 )
  865. [10:32:33] <Veril> raring is jumping out of a running pivot
  866. [10:32:38] <Veril> its called
  867. [10:32:39] <Veril> raring
  868. [10:32:42] <leaf> it was people playing with acronyms
  869. [10:32:46] <Veril> that was easy
  870. [10:32:48] <leaf> until they found something they thought was funny
  871. [10:32:53] <leaf> and applied to the move sorta
  872. [10:32:58] <rPSI> should we use the term RAR?
  873. [10:33:01] <Veril> yes
  874. [10:33:03] <DarkDragoon> yes
  875. [10:33:04] <leaf> it's ingrained
  876. [10:33:04] <leaf> so yes
  877. [10:33:06] <Ankoku> Wait, the turnaround from a run is still called a pivot?
  878. [10:33:08] <Tblock> yes
  879. [10:33:11] <Veril> running pivot
  880. [10:33:11] <Raziek> I agree with Rar as a term.
  881. [10:33:15] <Bionic> RAR's so common nowadays, so yeah
  882. [10:33:15] <rPSI> running pivot
  883. [10:33:15] <Ankoku> : \
  884. [10:33:21] <leaf> run turnaround
  885. [10:33:25] <leaf> should NOT be called a pivot
  886. [10:33:34] <Veril> yes it should
  887. [10:33:38] * AdumbroDeus has joined #Smash_Lab
  888. [10:33:38] <leaf> pivoting is setting yourself into a neutral stance from a dd
  889. [10:33:44] <leaf> even if DDing sucks in brawl
  890. [10:33:49] <Ankoku> Yeah, I'm used to the Melee term usage as well.
  891. [10:33:50] <leaf> pivoting still exists in that form
  892. [10:33:54] <AdumbroDeus> class let out early
  893. [10:33:56] <Veril> that's a dash pivot
  894. [10:34:00] <Veril> thus the ____
  895. [10:34:03] <Veril> for the descriptor
  896. [10:34:04] <Strong_Bad> no, that's called a pivot stand.
  897. [10:34:05] <AdumbroDeus> so where are we in the discussion?
  898. [10:34:07] <leaf> that's a pivot
  899. [10:34:07] <leaf> as in
  900. [10:34:07] <leaf> just
  901. [10:34:07] <leaf> vpiot
  902. [10:34:10] <leaf> *pivot
  903. [10:34:15] <Ankoku> vpiot
  904. [10:34:16] <rPSI> We have basic movement done
  905. [10:34:21] <Veril> there is no pivot stand
  906. [10:34:22] <Veril> lol
  907. [10:34:23] <rPSI> and working on getting advanced movement
  908. [10:34:25] <leaf> no sb
  909. [10:34:26] <Veril> that's a useless term
  910. [10:34:32] <AdumbroDeus> ok
  911. [10:34:42] <leaf> it's called a pivot, and then it's usually followed by the name of a move
  912. [10:34:46] <AdumbroDeus> sounds like this will take a while
  913. [10:34:47] <leaf> e.g. pivot utilt
  914. [10:34:52] <rPSI> this ain't melee
  915. [10:34:55] <leaf> if you're pivoting into a utilt
  916. [10:34:57] <MrEsc> are ledge boosted specials part of special ground movement?
  917. [10:34:58] <Veril> this is indeed
  918. [10:35:00] <Veril> not melee
  919. [10:35:02] <Ankoku> You can still pivot a utilt in Brawl
  920. [10:35:06] <leaf> it's smash
  921. [10:35:12] <Veril> ledge boosted vs ledge sliding
  922. [10:35:15] <leaf> and you can still pivot in brawl
  923. [10:35:16] <Veril> discuss
  924. [10:35:16] <leaf> the dd range is just much smaller
  925. [10:35:18] <Tblock> actually i agree with leaf
  926. [10:35:20] <rPSI> It's super smash bros. brawl...
  927. [10:35:31] <Tblock> pivot jab
  928. [10:35:36] <Tblock> although pivot grab is inconsistent with that
  929. [10:35:39] <MrEsc> I like Ledge boosted over ledge sliding
  930. [10:35:47] <leaf> pivot grab is a sakurai term
  931. [10:35:55] <AmazingAmpharos> I would never use pivot for anything but turning around while running
  932. [10:36:00] <AmazingAmpharos> because of pivot grab
  933. [10:36:01] <Veril> pivot grab is a term
  934. [10:36:03] <leaf> sakurai is who named the reverse running grab tech
  935. [10:36:04] <Veril> that everyone uses
  936. [10:36:04] <rPSI> that was... random... Mr.Esc
  937. [10:36:04] <MrEsc> Guys, new discussion: Teching vs Ukemi
  938. [10:36:09] <Ankoku> phanna was forced to name it the "true pivot" because of Sakurai :V http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4tmLsflA_c
  939. [10:36:09] <rPSI> Teching
  940. [10:36:10] <AmazingAmpharos> and sakurai has precedence over the melee community
  941. [10:36:12] <Veril> teching
  942. [10:36:14] <AmazingAmpharos> sorry guys
  943. [10:36:14] <leaf> rofl
  944. [10:36:25] <Veril> wait
  945. [10:36:28] <Veril> seriously
  946. [10:36:30] <AmazingAmpharos> So everyone who bought the game has a connection to Sakurai
  947. [10:36:38] <AmazingAmpharos> not everyone who bought the game has a connection to high level melee
  948. [10:36:40] <leaf> aa: so then you agree it should be called ukemi
  949. [10:36:41] <AmazingAmpharos> precedence is obvious
  950. [10:36:51] <leaf> instead of teching
  951. [10:36:53] <leaf> like everyone does
  952. [10:36:53] <Veril> ukemi sucks
  953. [10:36:56] <Strong_Bad> take the ukemi
  954. [10:36:57] <Veril> teching
  955. [10:36:57] <AdumbroDeus> while I hate to go withe the developer's intent side
  956. [10:36:57] <AmazingAmpharos> Ukemi is only something we should leave out because it's a foreign term
  957. [10:36:58] <Strong_Bad> TAKE IT
  958. [10:37:12] <AdumbroDeus> I gotta agree with AA here, the term is too common
  959. [10:37:12] <rPSI> agreed w/ AA
  960. [10:37:13] <Strong_Bad> yeah it's japanese lol
  961. [10:37:21] <DarkDragoon> Ukemi
  962. [10:37:23] <DarkDragoon> is pretentious.
  963. [10:37:30] <Veril> and annoying
  964. [10:37:30] <leaf> it's still what sakurai named it, no?
  965. [10:37:35] <AdumbroDeus> making it mean something else is gonna cause unnecessary confusion in the community
  966. [10:37:36] <Veril> who cares
  967. [10:37:37] <Tblock> i'm fine with either, but i don't like that pivot grab and pivot jab refer to two very different things
  968. [10:37:41] <leaf> and if sakurai has precedence
  969. [10:37:41] <Ankoku> "This is how you do a REAL ukemi!!" - Bang
  970. [10:37:50] <leaf> then we should call it ukemi
  971. [10:37:50] <DarkDragoon> xD
  972. [10:37:51] <Veril> everyone calls it teching
  973. [10:37:56] <leaf> which we're obviously not going to do
  974. [10:38:00] <Veril> stop trolling
  975. [10:38:02] <Veril> ;p
  976. [10:38:09] <leaf> I'm not suggesting we call it ukemi
  977. [10:38:13] <Veril> ok
  978. [10:38:18] <Veril> than we can move on
  979. [10:38:22] <AdumbroDeus> well ukemi is wake-up game in general
  980. [10:38:25] <Strong_Bad> he's pretty much pointing out the flaw in the logic that because Sakurai calls whatever X, we have to.
  981. [10:38:35] <AdumbroDeus> teching would be one part of wake-up game
  982. [10:38:37] <Ankoku> Is running pivot really only named such because of the pivot grab?
  983. [10:38:37] <MrEsc> Lets get back on track guys
  984. [10:38:41] <Veril> pivot grab is used by the community
  985. [10:38:48] <rPSI> leaf, we're also not trying to rename ingrained stuff.  Stuff like Boost Smashing was one of the bad things about the Prevoiusl Smash Lab.  They didn't try to adapt to already common terms.
  986. [10:38:48] <AdumbroDeus> doesn't matter what sakurai thinks
  987. [10:38:50] <Veril> I didn't use sakurai at all in the explanation
  988. [10:39:08] <AdumbroDeus> changing terms everyone uses is gonna be useless
  989. [10:39:13] <leaf> yeah, I know rpsi
  990. [10:39:14] <AdumbroDeus> cause nobody will pay attention
  991. [10:39:18] <rPSI> exactly what Adumb said
  992. [10:39:19] <leaf> we have to keep it
  993. [10:39:19] <Veril> if you use the term ukemi and don't understand the term teching you will be confused
  994. [10:39:23] <Strong_Bad> wat Adumb
  995. [10:39:28] <Strong_Bad> doh
  996. [10:39:29] <AdumbroDeus> we should standardize when there are multiple terms
  997. [10:39:29] <Veril> by smashboards
  998. [10:39:34] <Strong_Bad> adumbrodeus ok
  999. [10:39:39] <AdumbroDeus> and develop terms when needed
  1000. [10:39:41] <rPSI> In a brawl community, most people refer to the run turn as pivot
  1001. [10:39:47] <leaf> simply because people have already been using pivot grab to refer to the reverse running grab for so long
  1002. [10:39:56] <Veril> its easy to say
  1003. [10:40:03] <Veril> that's kinda important
  1004. [10:40:05] <AmazingAmpharos> and a pivot grab is a real thing anyway
  1005. [10:40:11] <MrEsc> I don't know how we ended back to pivoting
  1006. [10:40:20] <AmazingAmpharos> but yeah, this discussion seems to be nearing a conclusion
  1007. [10:40:25] <Veril> it all returns in the end
  1008. [10:40:25] <AmazingAmpharos> and is not exactly exciting reading material
  1009. [10:40:27] <AmazingAmpharos> so what else?
  1010. [10:40:28] <Veril> to the sex kick
  1011. [10:40:30] <MrEsc> I thought we agreed on Running Pivot?
  1012. [10:40:30] <Veril> wait no
  1013. [10:40:31] <AmazingAmpharos> so we can wrap this up?
  1014. [10:40:34] <MrEsc> SEX KICK?!
  1015. [10:40:37] <AdumbroDeus> lol
  1016. [10:40:39] <leaf> lol
  1017. [10:40:44] <Strong_Bad> DID SOMEONE SAY SEX KICK?
  1018. [10:40:46] <Veril> I'm sorry rPSI
  1019. [10:40:50] <Veril> lol
  1020. [10:40:52] <DarkDragoon> SEXKICK?
  1021. [10:40:57] * ChanServ changes topic to 'TO THE SEX....... kick'
  1022. [10:40:57] <leaf> running pivot is still a stupid term
  1023. [10:41:02] <Veril> no it isn't
  1024. [10:41:14] <rPSI> lol u mad leaf?
  1025. [10:41:15] <leaf> it's been referred to as runturn since melee
  1026. [10:41:16] <Veril> pivot is the term for turnaround
  1027. [10:41:16] <MrEsc> it really isnt
  1028. [10:41:21] <Veril> since turnaround is a descriptor
  1029. [10:41:25] <Veril> used with specials
  1030. [10:41:46] <Strong_Bad> turn around isn't a descriptor, it's a command. TURN AROUND YOUNG MAN
  1031. [10:41:51] <MrEsc> We are using TurnRun/RunTurn internally, but for the public release it will be Running Pivot
  1032. [10:42:03] <MrEsc> That is the impression I was under
  1033. [10:42:16] <Veril> turnrun is what I use in spreadsheets
  1034. [10:42:22] <rPSI> I agree with MrEsc
  1035. [10:42:22] <Veril> cause it takes less space
  1036. [10:42:25] <Ankoku> That terminology pisses me off, but fine, we'll move on.
  1037. [10:42:38] <rPSI> lol u melee player?
  1038. [10:42:47] <MrEsc> ya he melee player
  1039. [10:42:56] <Strong_Bad> why does the game one plays matter in this? lol.
  1040. [10:43:04] <rPSI> it's more of a Melee precedent vs. Brawl
  1041. [10:43:04] <MrEsc> It doesn't lol
  1042. [10:43:07] <Veril> cause we're discussing brawl
  1043. [10:43:16] <Veril> obv
  1044. [10:43:23] <Veril> but we all play both I assume
  1045. [10:43:23] <AdumbroDeus> I play melee too and it pisses me off as well
  1046. [10:43:25] <Veril> or at least brawl
  1047. [10:43:27] <leaf> terms should be consistent across all smash games
  1048. [10:43:33] <MrEsc> rPSI, get us back on track
  1049. [10:43:35] <Strong_Bad> yeah taht's never gonna happen leaf.
  1050. [10:43:40] <MrEsc> this topic has taken too long as is
  1051. [10:43:45] <AdumbroDeus> but being useful to the community is more important then maintaining consistently with melee
  1052. [10:43:50] <Veril> ^^
  1053. [10:44:00] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Universal Special Techniques'
  1054. [10:44:02] <Veril> massively more important
  1055. [10:44:24] <leaf> being useful to the community is not adding extra terms that can be easily confused for other terms
  1056. [10:44:33] <Veril> b-reversal, turnaround, and recoil
  1057. [10:44:44] <Veril> recoil being the better way to say wavebounce
  1058. [10:44:52] <Strong_Bad> lol wavebounce
  1059. [10:44:53] <Veril> which is easier to type than b-reverse turnaround
  1060. [10:44:54] <Raziek> B-reversal has to stay for sure
  1061. [10:45:01] <leaf> recoil = b-reversal wavebounce afaik
  1062. [10:45:05] <Veril> turnaround b is a distinct technique
  1063. [10:45:06] <leaf> *= wavebounce
  1064. [10:45:10] <Ankoku> I like "recoil" but I don't think I've heard people use that term much if at all.
  1065. [10:45:10] * Junglefever has joined #Smash_Lab
  1066. [10:45:13] <leaf> yes
  1067. [10:45:17] <Veril> and recoil is b-reverse turnaround b
  1068. [10:45:21] <rPSI> turnaround is the no momentum
  1069. [10:45:21] <leaf> it's a matter of whether it's done before or after the move has started
  1070. [10:45:29] <rPSI> b-reveral is the momentum
  1071. [10:45:35] <rPSI> wavebounc/recoil is the combination
  1072. [10:45:36] <leaf> yes
  1073. [10:45:39] <Veril> turnaround conserves momentum and reversal... reverses it
  1074. [10:45:48] <Veril> but turnaround changes direction
  1075. [10:45:51] <leaf> wavebounce I always heard was just the b-reversal...
  1076. [10:45:55] <Veril> no
  1077. [10:45:57] <rPSI> no
  1078. [10:45:58] <Veril> no it was never that
  1079. [10:46:00] <leaf> at least, when it was first named
  1080. [10:46:20] <leaf> I remember on the lucas boards that's what it referred to anyway
  1081. [10:46:23] <Veril> anyway, something needs to fill that gap
  1082. [10:46:25] <leaf> I guess it's changed since then
  1083. [10:46:25] <Veril> for terms
  1084. [10:46:32] <Veril> and recoil is best imo
  1085. [10:46:35] <rPSI> Lucas players use actual Wavebouncing
  1086. [10:46:37] <Veril> cause recoil special is a term in use
  1087. [10:46:38] <Tblock> it's always been turnaround b-reversal
  1088. [10:46:43] <Veril> Lucas is special
  1089. [10:46:45] <Veril> idk
  1090. [10:46:53] <Veril> it a nonstandard term
  1091. [10:46:59] <Veril> we should mention them
  1092. [10:47:03] <Veril> but not use them officially
  1093. [10:47:03] <leaf> mhmm
  1094. [10:47:08] <rPSI> alright so settled on recoil to replace wavebounce?
  1095. [10:47:23] <Raziek> sure
  1096. [10:47:42] <leaf> I always heard b-turnaround+b-reverse referred to as a "double reverse"
  1097. [10:47:55] * MrEsc2 has joined #Smash_Lab
  1098. [10:48:03] <rPSI> MrEsc has a clone!
  1099. [10:48:12] <leaf> lol
  1100. [10:48:14] <AmazingAmpharos> It's probably an imposter
  1101. [10:48:16] <leaf> new and improved
  1102. [10:48:17] <AmazingAmpharos> We should ban both for security
  1103. [10:48:19] <MrEsc2> Firefox crashed
  1104. [10:48:21] <leaf> obv
  1105. [10:48:24] * rPSI threw a pokeball @ MrEsc2
  1106. [10:48:24] <MrEsc2> :(
  1107. [10:48:28] <MrEsc2> NOOOOOO
  1108. [10:48:30] <rPSI> The wild MrEsc2 fled
  1109. [10:48:36] * MrEsc2 breaks free!
  1110. [10:48:40] * MrEsc2 has fled!
  1111. [10:48:43] <rPSI> lol
  1112. [10:48:46] <rPSI> anywayssssss
  1113. [10:48:48] * AdumbroDeus has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  1114. [10:48:50] * MrEsc has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  1115. [10:48:55] * MrEsc2 is now known as MrEsc
  1116. [10:48:57] <rPSI> DOUBLE RAGE QUIT
  1117. [10:49:03] <rPSI> alright
  1118. [10:49:04] <Veril> so yeah I'm gonna eat dinner
  1119. [10:49:12] <rPSI> so take a quick break or what?
  1120. [10:49:19] <AmazingAmpharos> What even remains?
  1121. [10:49:20] <MrEsc> Sure
  1122. [10:49:29] <rPSI> more specific Specials stuff
  1123. [10:49:35] <MrEsc> Start back at 9pm EST?
  1124. [10:49:36] <AmazingAmpharos> bucket braking, etc.?
  1125. [10:49:42] <Strong_Bad> lol bucket braking
  1126. [10:49:43] <MrEsc> so in 10 minutes?
  1127. [10:49:47] <rPSI> 10 mins
  1128. [10:49:49] <Veril> I think we'll all be more interested and focused when we discuss actual ATs instead of nomenclature
  1129. [10:49:55] <Veril> le sigh
  1130. [10:50:01] <MrEsc> Probably
  1131. [10:50:08] <MrEsc> anyways, talk to you guys in 10
  1132. [10:50:13] <rPSI> well, we should let Veril get the nomencalture done when  he's done eating
  1133. [10:50:23] <rPSI> so meet back up @ 9 EST
  1134. [10:50:27] * rPSI sets mode: +v Veril
  1135. [10:50:38] <rPSI> what does voice do?
  1136. [10:50:42] <Veril> oh snap
  1137. [10:50:47] <Veril> ok that's awesome
  1138. [10:50:53] <Bionic> type /mode #Smash_Lab +m
  1139. [10:50:57] <Bionic> only veril can talk
  1140. [10:51:01] <rPSI> sweeeet
  1141. [10:51:02] <Ankoku> LOL
  1142. [10:51:02] <Veril> but I'm still hungry brb
  1143. [10:51:03] <Bionic> and /mode #Smash_Lab -m
  1144. [10:51:05] <Bionic> unmutes
  1145. [10:51:20] <rPSI> so that will let Veril talk about the nomenclature
  1146. [10:51:22] <rPSI> when he gets done
  1147. [10:51:23] <Ankoku> Yeah, if the channel is +m, then only +v and up can talk
  1148. [10:51:38] * rPSI sets mode: +v rPSIHelper
  1149. [10:52:01] <Ankoku> where the levels are +v, +h, +o, +u, +a, I think
  1150. [10:52:10] <Ankoku> Not exactly sure if Owner corresponds to +u
  1151. [10:52:17] <rPSIHelper> Meeting is in recess... (wheeeeeeeee)
  1152. [10:52:24] <Ankoku> er, nope
  1153. [10:52:25] <Bionic> I think some IRC servers are +o and +v only
  1154. [10:52:25] <Ankoku> +q
  1155. [10:52:36] <Ankoku> rizon has the full spectrum
  1156. [10:52:41] <Bionic> at least GameSurge (where the smash mods are) is only that
  1157. [10:53:21] <EA> lol
  1158. [10:53:34] <EA> bah finally caught up
  1159. [10:53:54] <leaf> yeah, I had to catch up multiple times
  1160. [10:54:05] <leaf> hence why I was talking about stuff way later than it was originally discussed lol
  1161. [10:54:30] <leaf> hm... I really wanna play iamp right now for some reason
  1162. [10:54:39] <Raziek> SO HOW ABOUT THOSE SEX KICKS?
  1163. [10:54:42] <EA> haha I had an odd feeling and checked my settings, turned out logging was off so I had to paste everything bit by bit lol
  1164. [10:54:47] * Indigo_Jeans has joined #Smash_Lab
  1165. [10:54:56] <Bionic> fucking sex kicks
  1166. [10:54:59] <Ankoku> leaf
  1167. [10:55:02] <Ankoku> I'll play iamp with you
  1168. [10:55:06] <Indigo_Jeans> K
  1169. [10:55:07] <leaf> ?
  1170. [10:55:10] <leaf> oh sweet
  1171. [10:55:11] <Ankoku> Do you have rollcaster?
  1172. [10:55:13] <leaf> you play?
  1173. [10:55:15] <leaf> yeah
  1174. [10:55:27] <Ankoku> 76.10.13.222
  1175. [10:55:34] <Ankoku> Haven't played in like a month and a half haha
  1176. [10:55:38] * Bionic goes to play Transformice
  1177. [10:55:41] <leaf> alright
  1178. [10:55:42] <leaf> and same
  1179. [10:55:57] <leaf> which means my sakuya will prob be even more nub than usual lol
  1180. [10:55:58] * Veril has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  1181. [10:58:58] <leaf> ok
  1182. [10:58:59] <leaf> found it
  1183. [10:59:23] <rPSI> then just play Indigo >:U
  1184. [10:59:47] <leaf> ankoku
  1185. [11:00:11] <Ankoku> you there?
  1186. [11:00:14] <Ankoku> k
  1187. [11:00:21] <Ankoku> omfg
  1188. [11:00:22] <Indigo_Jeans> don't I have to, like, download it first tho?
  1189. [11:00:23] * TheMike has joined #Smash_Lab
  1190. [11:00:24] <Ankoku> l2 slashy
  1191. [11:00:39] <rPSI> no
  1192. [11:00:51] <IndigoJeans> tell me then :V
  1193. [11:00:51] <rPSI> just go to transformice.com/en
  1194. [11:01:00] <rPSI> well transformice.com/en2
  1195. [11:01:05] <Junglefever> came in hear to say transformiece da bess
  1196. [11:01:06] <rPSI> since we're playing in en2
  1197. [11:01:10] <Junglefever> here* jesus
  1198. [11:01:41] <Bionic> http://www.transformice.com/en2/index.html?salon=1
  1199. [11:01:48] <TheMike> hello
  1200. [11:01:51] <Junglefever> thx bio
  1201. [11:02:08] <Ankoku> hehe
  1202. [11:02:10] <leaf> lol I got raped
  1203. [11:02:20] <Ankoku> I should probably go with my alt for now
  1204. [11:02:27] <leaf> it's all good though
  1205. [11:02:36] * TheMike has quit IRC
  1206. [11:02:45] <AmazingAmpharos> Can we finish this up shortly? I didn't want to stick around all night
  1207. [11:03:18] <MrEsc> I'm here
  1208. [11:03:25] <MrEsc> I also think we should wrap this up
  1209. [11:03:53] <MrEsc> maybe schedule a followup meeting if there's still a lot to be done (though, this doesn't seem to be the case)
  1210. [11:04:17] <Ankoku> yo, gotta block if you don't wanna die that fast
  1211. [11:04:33] <leaf> yeah... kept thinking there were gaps
  1212. [11:04:42] <leaf> brb
  1213. [11:04:43] * Veril has joined #Smash_Lab
  1214. [11:04:45] <rPSI> we're waiting for Veril, but at this point, you don't absolutely have to be here
  1215. [11:04:49] <rPSI> speak of the devil
  1216. [11:05:01] <Indigo_Jeans> I say next meeting should be Friday @6:oo om eastern
  1217. [11:05:02] <Veril> and he shall appear?
  1218. [11:05:13] <Indigo_Jeans> wtf @smilie
  1219. [11:05:23] <rPSI> with a fiddle in his hand
  1220. [11:05:27] <Indigo_Jeans> Veril has telekinetic powers
  1221. [11:05:34] <Veril> I do play the violin actually ;p
  1222. [11:05:41] * rPSI sets mode: +v Veril
  1223. [11:05:44] <Indigo_Jeans> Violin is steak tier
  1224. [11:05:50] <Indigo_Jeans> Viola is where it's at
  1225. [11:06:46] <Veril> am I muted lol
  1226. [11:06:51] <rPSI> no
  1227. [11:06:56] <rPSI> I put voice back on you
  1228. [11:07:00] <Indigo_Jeans> I've got headphones on
  1229. [11:07:01] <rPSI> for when everyone is done
  1230. [11:07:04] <Bionic> Alright, what'd I miss
  1231. [11:07:06] <rPSI> and back
  1232. [11:07:07] <rPSI> nothign yet
  1233. [11:07:10] <Indigo_Jeans> to keep Veril's voice private
  1234. [11:07:11] <rPSI> Veril just got  back
  1235. [11:07:12] <Indigo_Jeans> ;p
  1236. [11:07:15] <Bionic> cool
  1237. [11:07:26] <rPSIHelper> Meeting is back up guys
  1238. [11:07:53] <rPSI> Alright
  1239. [11:08:13] <rPSI> so Veril, do you want to talk?
  1240. [11:08:13] <Indigo_Jeans> so...
  1241. [11:08:18] <Veril> yes
  1242. [11:08:20] <rPSI> w/ everyone else muted?
  1243. [11:08:21] <MrEsc> So.
  1244. [11:08:26] <Veril> I'm having problems with my mic maybe
  1245. [11:08:28] <Veril> idk
  1246. [11:08:32] <rPSI> what?
  1247. [11:08:43] <rPSI> I meant everyone else muted
  1248. [11:08:44] * AdumbroDeus has joined #Smash_Lab
  1249. [11:08:46] <Indigo_Jeans> what exactly are we doing atm?
  1250. [11:09:15] <Veril> advanced movement options involving specials
  1251. [11:09:20] <rPSI> [20:50] <rPSI> well, we should let Veril get the nomencalture done when  he's done eating
  1252. [11:09:22] <Veril> was the last thing we discussed
  1253. [11:09:30] <AdumbroDeus> ok
  1254. [11:09:38] <AdumbroDeus> back
  1255. [11:09:40] <Veril> well I'm only really concerned with technical terminology
  1256. [11:09:48] <Veril> cause it helps when we can all communicate
  1257. [11:10:04] <rPSI> alright, go ahead and talk about it
  1258. [11:10:10] <AdumbroDeus> srry about vanishing chat kicked me
  1259. [11:10:12] <rPSI> make sure everyone is at an understanding
  1260. [11:10:16] <Veril> I'm looking for my other mic
  1261. [11:10:42] <rPSI> wait, IRC doens't support it, does it?
  1262. [11:10:57] <AdumbroDeus> nah
  1263. [11:11:11] <Veril> ok w/e I'll type
  1264. [11:11:16] <Indigo_Jeans> I'd like a clearer distinction between wavebounce, b reverse, etc.
  1265. [11:11:29] <Veril> b-reverse changes direction and momentum
  1266. [11:11:36] <Veril> turnaround only changes direction
  1267. [11:11:41] <Veril> recoil changes only momentum
  1268. [11:11:57] <Indigo_Jeans> K
  1269. [11:11:57] <Veril> the timing for b-reverse is within the first 4 frames
  1270. [11:12:04] <Indigo_Jeans> that was easy
  1271. [11:12:04] <Veril> the timing for turnaround is extremely loose
  1272. [11:12:15] <Veril> but has to preceed the special input
  1273. [11:12:20] <Indigo_Jeans> I only have problems with recoil
  1274. [11:12:23] <Veril> and recoil is both
  1275. [11:12:36] <DarkDragoon> >_>
  1276. [11:12:37] <DarkDragoon> <_<
  1277. [11:12:43] <Indigo_Jeans> I usually have to b stick to recoil :p
  1278. [11:12:47] <Veril> no you don't
  1279. [11:13:06] <Veril> its just like inputing a quick dash dance
  1280. [11:13:33] <Veril> you can use the c-stick and a special button input instead of b-sticking
  1281. [11:13:34] <Veril> also
  1282. [11:13:37] <Indigo_Jeans> Well, I mean recoiling neutral b's
  1283. [11:13:39] * Lux has joined #Smash_Lab
  1284. [11:13:39] <rPSI> brb, but I want to talk with Veril and AA about the spreadsheet format when I get back
  1285. [11:13:46] <Veril> ok
  1286. [11:13:52] <Veril> when will you get back?
  1287. [11:13:53] <Lux> finally got here lol
  1288. [11:13:57] * Lux is now known as Guest23330
  1289. [11:14:17] * Guest23330 is now known as Luxor
  1290. [11:14:24] <Veril> recoil is better than wavebounce
  1291. [11:14:33] <Veril> and shorter than b-reverse turnaround b
  1292. [11:14:40] * Luxor is now known as _Lux_
  1293. [11:14:55] <AmazingAmpharos> I'm not watching this window so when you need my attention, say my full name to highlight me
  1294. [11:15:22] <Veril> OK I think we're waiting on rPSI and then we can talk about technical terminology
  1295. [11:15:26] <rPSI> okay
  1296. [11:15:26] <rPSI> back
  1297. [11:15:29] <rPSI> had to take out cat litter
  1298. [11:15:30] <Veril> excellent
  1299. [11:15:33] <Veril> lol
  1300. [11:15:39] <rPSI> kinda funny
  1301. [11:15:43] <rPSI> I have two cats
  1302. [11:15:46] <AdumbroDeus> lol
  1303. [11:15:46] <rPSI> and somehow
  1304. [11:15:52] <rPSI> there was only cat feces in one litter box
  1305. [11:15:55] <rPSI> and only cat urine in the other
  1306. [11:16:19] <Veril> cats are weird
  1307. [11:16:20] <_Lux_> it's a sign
  1308. [11:17:24] <rPSI> AmazingAmpharos, we are going to start discussing the spreadsheet
  1309. [11:17:33] * rPSI sets mode: +v AmazingAmpharos
  1310. [11:18:09] <AmazingAmpharos> okay
  1311. [11:18:14] <rPSI> alright
  1312. [11:18:15] <Veril> alright so I don't really like the format rPSI has set up
  1313. [11:18:19] <rPSI> yeah
  1314. [11:18:20] <Veril> though it makes sense
  1315. [11:18:27] <rPSI> i've started to dislike it some myself
  1316. [11:18:28] <Veril> its got unneeded data
  1317. [11:18:32] <Indigo_Jeans> well, I've got to go to sleep for school tomorrow
  1318. [11:18:35] <Veril> and missing lots of important stuff
  1319. [11:18:37] <rPSI> start-up and ending have to go
  1320. [11:18:38] <AmazingAmpharos> Did you guys look at what I did with G&W?
  1321. [11:18:40] <Indigo_Jeans> ggs guys >:C
  1322. [11:18:45] <Veril> no I didn't
  1323. [11:18:50] <Veril> sorry
  1324. [11:18:51] <rPSI> goes to open it
  1325. [11:18:52] <AmazingAmpharos> I didn't do jabs really at all
  1326. [11:18:55] * rPSI goes to open it
  1327. [11:18:58] <AmazingAmpharos> So I did no justice to any jab exclusive parameters
  1328. [11:18:58] * _Lux_ opening
  1329. [11:19:09] <Veril> well his jabs involve an article
  1330. [11:19:09] * Indigo_Jeans has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  1331. [11:19:09] * IndigoJeans has quit IRC (Quit: lolbai. _eawebchat)
  1332. [11:19:16] <AmazingAmpharos> not really
  1333. [11:19:21] <AmazingAmpharos> I mean, the hitboxes are normal hitboxes
  1334. [11:19:24] <AmazingAmpharos> G&W
  1335. [11:19:31] <Veril> the article's just an animation?
  1336. [11:19:35] <AmazingAmpharos> G&W's "articles" that he uses for everything are kinda goofy
  1337. [11:19:38] <AmazingAmpharos> a G&W exclusive mechanic
  1338. [11:19:42] <Veril> oh great
  1339. [11:19:44] <AmazingAmpharos> but they can mostly be ignored
  1340. [11:19:48] <AmazingAmpharos> for our purposes
  1341. [11:20:04] <AmazingAmpharos> since it's just changing his body
  1342. [11:20:06] <AdumbroDeus> fun...
  1343. [11:20:11] <Veril> well anyway the data needs to be gathered for individual hitboxes
  1344. [11:20:14] <AmazingAmpharos> and I think it consumes an article slot for him
  1345. [11:20:18] <Veril> if we want to condense it for the public
  1346. [11:20:23] <Veril> I have a format for that I'll post
  1347. [11:20:30] <Veril> but for the smashlab we should list each hitbubble
  1348. [11:20:34] <Ankoku> boom
  1349. [11:20:35] <rPSI> that'll be good Veril
  1350. [11:20:48] <rPSI> If you can set-up a google docs spreadsheet
  1351. [11:20:50] <Veril> collision bubbles, grab bubbles, hurtbubbles
  1352. [11:20:52] <_Lux_> ...annoying to enter, though :P
  1353. [11:20:54] <Veril> I kinda did
  1354. [11:20:54] <rPSI> with one character per sheet
  1355. [11:20:57] <Veril> oh
  1356. [11:21:03] <rPSI> more organized
  1357. [11:21:03] <AmazingAmpharos> So we plan on a hitbox properties table too?
  1358. [11:21:05] <Veril> I like the omegasheet
  1359. [11:21:08] <AmazingAmpharos> Not just a frame data sheet?
  1360. [11:21:08] <Veril> ;p
  1361. [11:21:10] <Veril> but I understand
  1362. [11:21:16] <Veril> there's hitbox data
  1363. [11:21:18] <Veril> frame data
  1364. [11:21:23] <Veril> bone collision data
  1365. [11:21:28] <AmazingAmpharos> I mean, I'm trying to get a sense of the full scope of everything we're doing
  1366. [11:21:30] <rPSI> Omegasheet isn't good for colaboration though :P
  1367. [11:21:31] <Veril> grab data
  1368. [11:21:33] <Veril> and bone shit
  1369. [11:21:35] <Veril> well
  1370. [11:21:37] <Veril> weird shit
  1371. [11:21:41] <Veril> is its own catagory lol
  1372. [11:21:53] <rPSI> AA, we want to get nearly everything PSA has to offer
  1373. [11:22:03] <rPSI> but we also want to make sure we get the basic stuff for everyone
  1374. [11:22:11] <Veril> character attributes like aerial mobility, jump rate and stuff can be in one sheet
  1375. [11:22:23] <Veril> I uploaded all the jump durations a while back
  1376. [11:22:26] <_Lux_> they are already
  1377. [11:22:29] <Veril> but didn't put them on google docs
  1378. [11:22:32] <Veril> I don't think
  1379. [11:22:37] <rPSI> I know where they are
  1380. [11:22:41] <rPSI> it's someone else's sheet
  1381. [11:22:48] <rPSI> I'll upload it to our docs if you want
  1382. [11:22:56] <_Lux_> they're all on the attributes sheet, aren't they?
  1383. [11:23:02] <rPSI> yeah
  1384. [11:23:03] <_Lux_> hidden away
  1385. [11:23:14] <_Lux_> we need an "attributes sheet for dummies"
  1386. [11:23:18] <AmazingAmpharos> well, everything in PSA, literally, is information
  1387. [11:23:19] <Veril> no we don't
  1388. [11:23:28] <Veril> we need a comprehensive list for analysis
  1389. [11:23:37] <Veril> when you have everything in excel or docs
  1390. [11:23:38] <_Lux_> for us we have the sheet we need
  1391. [11:23:41] <AmazingAmpharos> Just some stuff is the most useful stuff
  1392. [11:23:44] <_Lux_> the public will go "lolwut"
  1393. [11:23:46] <Veril> you can setup formula for a whole class of data
  1394. [11:24:02] <Veril> we aren't talking about the public though atm
  1395. [11:24:11] <Veril> that was before with the sex kicks
  1396. [11:24:16] <AdumbroDeus> agreed
  1397. [11:24:24] <Veril> anyway, here's what you should record with offensive collisions
  1398. [11:24:26] <Veril> imo
  1399. [11:24:34] * TheMike has joined #Smash_Lab
  1400. [11:24:41] * TheMike has quit IRC
  1401. [11:24:42] <AdumbroDeus> once we have the data formated for what we need, we can make a condensed version for the public
  1402. [11:24:46] <Veril> each column should always be filled in even when redundant so that lists work properly
  1403. [11:24:52] <Veril> its a quirk of docs and excel
  1404. [11:25:10] <rPSI> right now we're setting up stuff for us so we can spit out the information for the public
  1405. [11:25:33] <MrEsc> did someone say SEX KICKS
  1406. [11:25:35] <Veril> so move, followed by some identification scheme (I use HID, which I'll explain shortly), than bone, than damage, than angle
  1407. [11:25:36] <Veril> ...
  1408. [11:25:43] <Veril> than knockback types
  1409. [11:25:45] <rPSIHelper> no one said sex kicks >.>
  1410. [11:25:48] <_Lux_> so get the sheets fine and dandy then automatically reformat for public consumption?
  1411. [11:25:56] <Veril> ∂, kb, shield damage and bkb
  1412. [11:26:00] <Veril> kbg
  1413. [11:26:06] <Veril> sorry missed the g
  1414. [11:26:07] <rPSI> @_Lux_ yep
  1415. [11:26:18] <Veril> all the basic psa stuff
  1416. [11:26:23] <_Lux_> sona bien
  1417. [11:26:24] <Veril> listed mostly in order
  1418. [11:26:29] <Veril> except size, z, y,x
  1419. [11:26:43] <Veril> which should be after trip, hitlag multiplier and sdi multiplier
  1420. [11:26:47] <Veril> cause of copy pasta
  1421. [11:26:49] <Veril> srs
  1422. [11:26:50] <Veril> easier
  1423. [11:26:53] <rPSI> I think Veril's got it, so if he can set up the spreadsheet w/o the omnisheet going and sorted into characters
  1424. [11:26:59] <rPSI> that would be pawsome
  1425. [11:27:03] <_Lux_> so basically copypasting PSA, sounds goooood
  1426. [11:27:11] <Veril> it took a long long time
  1427. [11:27:18] <Veril> to get as much as I did get inputted
  1428. [11:27:23] <Veril> automating would be faster
  1429. [11:27:25] <Veril> and more practical
  1430. [11:27:28] <Veril> but I don't care
  1431. [11:27:32] <Veril> cause I like to look at this
  1432. [11:27:39] <AmazingAmpharos> realistically, even frame data is going to be hard
  1433. [11:27:43] <Veril> but if someone is competent at doing that sort of thing
  1434. [11:27:45] <AmazingAmpharos> In terms of getting people to do work
  1435. [11:27:58] <rPSI> yeah
  1436. [11:27:58] <AmazingAmpharos> We have 39 pages of that to fill out and do right
  1437. [11:28:04] <_Lux_> we're not even a quarter done yet, unfortunately
  1438. [11:28:08] <AmazingAmpharos> Is it sensible to think about all this other stuff?
  1439. [11:28:10] <rPSI> we should prioritize basic frame data first Veril...
  1440. [11:28:10] <Veril> frame data pages have to be move class specific
  1441. [11:28:15] <_Lux_> and that's just with the basic frame data
  1442. [11:28:15] <Veril> that is
  1443. [11:28:19] <rPSI> class... specific...?
  1444. [11:28:19] <Veril> basic frame data
  1445. [11:28:28] <Veril> well, like MK's f-tilt
  1446. [11:28:32] <Veril> really works like a jab
  1447. [11:28:35] <rPSI> oh, yeah
  1448. [11:28:39] <Veril> and you use the same format
  1449. [11:28:40] <Veril> for it
  1450. [11:28:44] <Veril> not the f-tilt format
  1451. [11:28:45] <_Lux_> link/tl's fsmashes too?
  1452. [11:28:51] <Veril> which really is the tilt format
  1453. [11:29:00] <Veril> yes
  1454. [11:29:01] <rPSI> don't forget snake f-tilt
  1455. [11:29:05] <rPSI> :P
  1456. [11:29:07] <Veril> there are a lot
  1457. [11:29:10] <rPSI> stupid retardely good move
  1458. [11:29:11] <Veril> Marth side-b
  1459. [11:29:17] <Veril> oh god yes
  1460. [11:29:28] <Veril> anyway, jabs all work in simular ways except like GW and Olimar
  1461. [11:29:33] <Veril> and olimar isn't complex
  1462. [11:29:34] <Veril> just weird
  1463. [11:29:41] <Veril> with his multihit jab
  1464. [11:29:43] <rPSI> multi-hitting jab
  1465. [11:29:44] <Veril> ;p
  1466. [11:29:44] <rPSI> lol
  1467. [11:29:50] <rPSI> fricken 1ms ninja
  1468. [11:30:01] <_Lux_> so we're getting around to specials to? those things hurt my brain
  1469. [11:30:17] <rPSI> well, we should get the regular attacks done, then the specials
  1470. [11:30:18] <Veril> specials are often classed under "weird shit"
  1471. [11:30:21] <Veril> which needs extra work
  1472. [11:30:28] <_Lux_> you can say that again
  1473. [11:30:48] <Veril> aerials, tilts, jabs, smashes (except up-smash), grabs, etc
  1474. [11:30:54] <rPSI> alright, so how would you format the basic frame data spreadsheet, Veril/AA?
  1475. [11:30:55] <Veril> those work pretty consistently in simular ways
  1476. [11:31:04] <Veril> I want to hear AA's thoughts
  1477. [11:31:10] <_Lux_> how does Usmash work different? off topic
  1478. [11:31:20] <Veril> it has flow
  1479. [11:31:27] <rPSI> AmazingAmpharos, Veril would like to hear your thoughts of columns for the basic frame data spreadsheets
  1480. [11:31:28] <AmazingAmpharos> (I'm having three conversations at once)
  1481. [11:31:30] <Veril> from dash attack
  1482. [11:31:36] * Raziek has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  1483. [11:31:42] <_Lux_> ...that would make sense.
  1484. [11:31:46] <Veril> so we might want to combine those two as per their association
  1485. [11:31:53] <Veril> and for math
  1486. [11:32:03] <AmazingAmpharos> So, I think every column I put data into for G&W's page is of value
  1487. [11:32:41] <AmazingAmpharos> invincibility, auto-cancel (after), super armor, and any other gameplay relevant things individual characters have get columsn
  1488. [11:33:31] * Bionic has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  1489. [11:33:39] <AmazingAmpharos> clearly quantized effects should generally get a column
  1490. [11:33:42] <AmazingAmpharos> as they apply to character
  1491. [11:33:54] <Veril> I don't think that's an efficient use of space
  1492. [11:34:06] <AmazingAmpharos> Are you proposing breaking into sub-tables?
  1493. [11:34:10] <Veril> cause it doesn't apply to a ton of moves
  1494. [11:34:19] <Veril> I like the idea of having one sheet for invincibility
  1495. [11:34:31] <_Lux_> slash super armor
  1496. [11:34:32] <AmazingAmpharos> I'd rather have a bigger table
  1497. [11:34:41] <AmazingAmpharos> and put more important and universal stuff further to the left
  1498. [11:34:44] <AmazingAmpharos> so invincibility is in the main table
  1499. [11:34:49] <AmazingAmpharos> but it's to the far right
  1500. [11:34:55] <AmazingAmpharos> and only even appears on characters that have it
  1501. [11:35:48] <rPSI> so what is it that AA want's that Veril disagrees with?
  1502. [11:35:49] <Veril> for inv/SA/HA/whatever I use "character" "move" "bone affected" "state" "first and lash frame
  1503. [11:35:52] <Veril> last
  1504. [11:35:58] <Veril> and a summary of effect
  1505. [11:36:01] <Veril> in relation to the move
  1506. [11:36:06] <Veril> however
  1507. [11:36:15] <Veril> given that we have hurtbox data now
  1508. [11:36:22] <Veril> it might be worth incorporating
  1509. [11:36:36] <Veril> so I might be inclined to agree with AA on that
  1510. [11:36:39] <Veril> um move duration
  1511. [11:36:47] <Veril> and not giving hitbubble specific data
  1512. [11:36:49] <Veril> I don't like
  1513. [11:36:55] <rPSI> well, this is the public release one
  1514. [11:37:01] <Veril> OH
  1515. [11:37:24] <rPSI> we're still going to have the Smash Lab one, which you will make (and more organized, instead of omnisheet)
  1516. [11:37:25] <Veril> I'm talking about a format to use for large scale analysis
  1517. [11:37:34] <rPSI> oh, we're talking about a public release format
  1518. [11:37:34] <rPSI> lol
  1519. [11:37:55] <_Lux_> <_<
  1520. [11:38:06] <rPSI> we're having 2 Veril
  1521. [11:38:11] <AmazingAmpharos> I figure the public can handle a google doc viewable only table
  1522. [11:38:15] <rPSI> one awesomely good one, which will take a long time to compile
  1523. [11:38:18] <Veril> wait I said I was going to talk about technical nomenclature
  1524. [11:38:18] <AmazingAmpharos> Unless someone wants to code up a unique website
  1525. [11:38:21] <Veril> and you said ok
  1526. [11:38:32] <AmazingAmpharos> with cool interactive features
  1527. [11:38:36] <AmazingAmpharos> I know I don't want to do that
  1528. [11:38:38] <Veril> that would be got
  1529. [11:38:39] <Veril> hot
  1530. [11:38:44] <Veril> GIMR
  1531. [11:38:54] <Veril> I wish he was here
  1532. [11:39:09] <AmazingAmpharos> in an interactive web page, we could just list their moveset
  1533. [11:39:14] <AmazingAmpharos> click for collapsed frame data to appear
  1534. [11:39:19] <AmazingAmpharos> and it would only contain fields that apply for that move
  1535. [11:39:27] <rPSI> sort of like how you got the stuff on the BBrawl site?
  1536. [11:39:33] <AmazingAmpharos> kinda
  1537. [11:39:39] <_Lux_> that would be pretty BUT it's kind of way off
  1538. [11:39:39] <rPSI> well, the set-up for
  1539. [11:39:48] <AmazingAmpharos> yeah, it would be a ton of work
  1540. [11:39:50] <_Lux_> we need to put the data somewhere while we collect it anyway
  1541. [11:39:50] <AmazingAmpharos> that I know I'm not doing
  1542. [11:39:59] <AmazingAmpharos> if we have no one to do it, we should probably assume we're going with a google doc style format
  1543. [11:40:36] <Veril> we should actually get all the data that we can analyze so we can actually make a useful and comprehensive public release
  1544. [11:40:37] <Veril> just saying
  1545. [11:40:51] <Veril> cause lots of derived data is > than raw data
  1546. [11:40:55] <Veril> like range
  1547. [11:41:10] <_Lux_> very very true, public and raw data don't mix
  1548. [11:41:11] <Veril> or hitstun
  1549. [11:41:23] <Veril> you need the technical format
  1550. [11:41:24] <_Lux_> it's gotta be in a format designed for mass consumption
  1551. [11:41:26] <_Lux_> like TV
  1552. [11:41:26] <Veril> to input the data
  1553. [11:41:31] <Veril> to derive the stuff WE WANT
  1554. [11:41:34] <Veril> for the public
  1555. [11:41:38] <rPSIHelper> SO... the plan is that we have two different sheets.  One: The Omnisheet (well split into characters and better formatted than Veril's is currently) and the Public release sheet.  The Public release sheet will be then viewable in the character specific forums as the official smash lab data.  Then once the omnisheet is finished, we can release the info from it
  1556. [11:41:46] <Veril> that's why I disagree with the priority on public release
  1557. [11:41:50] <Veril> ok
  1558. [11:42:14] <Veril> mine is actually really well formatted for analysis
  1559. [11:42:21] <Veril> with the hitbox data
  1560. [11:42:28] <Veril> but I know what you mean
  1561. [11:42:36] <rPSI> yeah
  1562. [11:42:53] <rPSI> so can we all agree on that?
  1563. [11:43:06] * rPSI has quit IRC (Quit: lolbai. _eawebchat)
  1564. [11:43:07] <AdumbroDeus> that's fine imo
  1565. [11:43:10] <EA> sure
  1566. [11:43:20] * rPSI has joined #Smash_Lab
  1567. [11:43:23] <Veril> OK AA do you want to decide the formatting for the public sheet?
  1568. [11:43:30] <Veril> as you'll probably do a better job
  1569. [11:43:35] <Veril> probably definitely
  1570. [11:43:37] * ChanServ sets mode: +o rPSI
  1571. [11:43:38] <Veril> errr
  1572. [11:43:43] <Veril> ;p
  1573. [11:43:47] <rPSI> page crashed X_X
  1574. [11:44:04] <rPSI> also
  1575. [11:44:06] <rPSI> in the public release
  1576. [11:44:07] <Veril> I think there's some derived data that absolutely should be in public sheets
  1577. [11:44:14] <Veril> like shield advantages
  1578. [11:44:15] <rPSI> we should include the damage
  1579. [11:44:20] <rPSI> so we can get ls;kdjf;asjd ninja
  1580. [11:44:42] <Veril> I'm gonna have to sig something from here
  1581. [11:44:51] <Veril> possibly a "ninja'd" compilation
  1582. [11:44:57] <Veril> sorry, continue
  1583. [11:44:57] * rPSIHelper was kicked by rPSI (rPSIHelper)
  1584. [11:44:58] <AmazingAmpharos> So okay
  1585. [11:45:06] <AmazingAmpharos> We finish the frame data sheet as we have
  1586. [11:45:23] <AmazingAmpharos> Roughly using my format for G&W, adding fields per character as appropriate
  1587. [11:45:29] <rPSI> yes
  1588. [11:45:30] <AmazingAmpharos> and then do more stuff later
  1589. [11:45:44] <rPSI> as soon as we get that done, we can add some derived stuff
  1590. [11:45:48] <rPSI> (such as sheild advantage)
  1591. [11:45:52] <Veril> if you can add hitstun, hitstun growth, and adv range on block
  1592. [11:46:07] <Veril> those and disjoint
  1593. [11:46:13] <rPSI> Stuff like that can be released on a separate time
  1594. [11:46:17] <Veril> are the most important derived valued I can think of
  1595. [11:46:18] <_Lux_> can we calc disjoint yet?
  1596. [11:46:21] <Veril> I can
  1597. [11:46:23] <Veril> : D
  1598. [11:46:27] <_Lux_> 0.o
  1599. [11:46:31] <Veril> "dance of victory"
  1600. [11:46:33] <rPSI> but right now the most importatnt derived one, is shield advantage
  1601. [11:46:38] <rPSI> *for the public
  1602. [11:46:40] <_Lux_> indeed
  1603. [11:46:47] <Veril> yeah I'll set that up
  1604. [11:46:56] <Veril> copypasta
  1605. [11:46:58] <Veril> 4ever
  1606. [11:47:02] <Veril> from myself
  1607. [11:47:04] <Veril> its sad
  1608. [11:47:06] <_Lux_> we'll need to keep track of each move's element too then, don't forget
  1609. [11:47:16] <_Lux_> electric or what it may be
  1610. [11:47:26] <rPSI> oh Veril
  1611. [11:47:30] <Veril> nah only if its electric or aura
  1612. [11:47:34] <Veril> yes
  1613. [11:47:45] <rPSI> BTW, the sheildblock formulas you posted
  1614. [11:47:55] <rPSI> are different from the ones Magus gave me
  1615. [11:47:58] <Veril> what one?
  1616. [11:48:08] <_Lux_> in your big blarf post thread
  1617. [11:48:10] <_Lux_> at the end
  1618. [11:48:12] <Veril> what one
  1619. [11:48:19] <_Lux_> however!
  1620. [11:48:23] * rPSI is finding the link
  1621. [11:48:41] <_Lux_> they're the same in most cases, two of magus' terms cancel out and you get veril's or something
  1622. [11:49:02] <_Lux_> me and rpsi had a big whoopitydoo with them the other day
  1623. [11:49:14] <rPSI> [20:50] <rPSI> well, we should let Veril get the nomencalture done when  he's done eating
  1624. [11:49:19] <rPSI> crap
  1625. [11:49:21] <_Lux_> First Hitframe + Floor[(damage/3] + Floor[(damage/2.6 + 5] - floor[(damage/2.6 + 5)*M*E] - FAF Where M is hitlag multiplier and E is Electric Hitlag Multiplier (which is 1.5)
  1626. [11:49:22] <rPSI> didn't copy right
  1627. [11:49:26] <_Lux_> ^magus'
  1628. [11:49:36] <rPSI> well, based on Magus'
  1629. [11:49:44] <rPSI> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=285502
  1630. [11:49:51] <rPSI> and the yours is the one at the end of that post
  1631. [11:50:11] <_Lux_> hitframe + Floor[(damage)/3] - non-hit FAF
  1632. [11:50:15] <_Lux_> ^veril's
  1633. [11:50:44] <_Lux_> so the only difference is magus' adds Floor[(damage/2.6 + 5] - floor[(damage/2.6 + 5)*M*E] to the equation
  1634. [11:50:48] <rPSI> gotta run
  1635. [11:50:56] <rPSI> TTYL
  1636. [11:51:09] <rPSI> I'll set-up another time sheet for next weekend as a general meeting
  1637. [11:51:09] <_Lux_> bye
  1638. [11:51:15] * rPSI has quit IRC
  1639. [11:51:25] <Veril> le sigh
  1640. [11:51:25] <Veril> ok
  1641. [11:51:31] <Veril> that's a formula for shield adv
  1642. [11:51:34] <Veril> mines for sstun
  1643. [11:51:40] <Veril> I have the SHL formula right after it
  1644. [11:51:53] <Veril> which is the one with floor damage/2.6 etc
  1645. [11:52:03] <_Lux_> the formula i said second is what i got mashing all the ones at the end of your post together
  1646. [11:52:25] <_Lux_> shl just cancels out since it's the same for both chars, so it didn't make my end result
  1647. [11:52:34] <_Lux_> unless i committed some unholy secret sin
  1648. [11:52:59] <Veril> I just calculate FAF
  1649. [11:53:06] <Veril> that's the difference I think
  1650. [11:53:15] <Veril> it doesn't cancel out
  1651. [11:53:18] <Veril> always
  1652. [11:53:25] <Veril> and they are the same
  1653. [11:53:43] <Veril> if magus includes hitlag in FAF
  1654. [11:53:54] <Veril> which would be included in this case
  1655. [11:54:10] <_Lux_> so wait
  1656. [11:54:34] <Veril> its defender FAF - attacker
  1657. [11:54:44] <_Lux_> only the sheilder has SHL and attacker only has HL?
  1658. [11:54:45] <Veril> defender FAF = sstun + SHL + hit1
  1659. [11:54:49] <Veril> which is what Magus put
  1660. [11:55:43] <_Lux_> and attacker FAF = endlag + hit + sstun
  1661. [11:55:51] <Veril> no
  1662. [11:55:53] <Veril> no it isn't
  1663. [11:56:03] <_Lux_> aha!
  1664. [11:56:13] <Veril> attacker FAF is normal FAF + hitlag
  1665. [11:56:21] <Veril> which is still the FAF
  1666. [11:56:31] <Veril> since its the acronym for first actionable frame
  1667. [11:56:31] <_Lux_> or, SHL not Sstun
  1668. [11:56:35] <Veril> yes
  1669. [11:56:41] <_Lux_> brainfart
  1670. [11:56:46] <Veril> its all good
  1671. [11:57:03] <Veril> you worried me for a sec cause I was like
  1672. [11:57:05] <Veril> naaaah
  1673. [11:57:18] <Veril> Magus and I coming up with contradictory formula
  1674. [11:57:23] <Veril> not common
  1675. [11:57:25] <_Lux_> so depending on what you call the FAF both formulas are correct bla bla you get the same answer either way more or less
  1676. [11:57:33] * Veril has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  1677. [11:57:44] * _Lux_ has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  1678. [11:57:52] * MrEsc has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  1679. [11:57:55] * Veril has joined #Smash_Lab
  1680. [11:57:58] <Veril> grr
  1681. [11:58:08] <Veril> except when we disagreed on the 361 angle
  1682. [11:58:17] <Veril> but that was only 5° he was off by
  1683. [11:58:42] <Veril> since it hits like a natural 45 at % above tumble
  1684. [11:58:46] <Veril> and he thought 40
  1685. [11:58:48] <Veril> w/e
  1686. [11:58:56] <Veril> sorry tangent
  1687. [11:59:30] * Veril has quit IRC
  1688. [11:59:32] <Strong_Bad> it's 37°
  1689. [12:00:04] * Veril has joined #Smash_Lab
  1690. [12:00:59] <Veril> >.>
  1691. [12:01:32] <Veril> gtg for the next 20 minutes or so, sorry
  1692. [12:01:48] <AdumbroDeus> k
  1693. [12:10:49] * Veril has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  1694. [12:11:05] * Veril has joined #Smash_Lab
  1695. [12:12:14] <Veril> ok that took way less time than I thought
  1696. [12:12:35] <Veril> so anything happen while I was gone
  1697. [12:12:35] <Veril> ?
  1698. [12:13:26] <Veril> and there was silence
  1699. [12:14:24] <Strong_Bad> in reference to sakurai angle
  1700. [12:14:26] <Strong_Bad> [08:59pm]   <Strong_Bad>    it's 37°
  1701. [12:14:56] <Veril> errr
  1702. [12:15:14] <Veril> it doesn't change the KO% at all on Marth's tipper f-smash
  1703. [12:15:18] <Veril> which is 45
  1704. [12:15:26] <Veril> well which was 361
  1705. [12:15:30] <Veril> and was changed to 45
  1706. [12:15:35] <Veril> to prove that it was 45
  1707. [12:15:37] <Strong_Bad> lol.
  1708. [12:15:43] <Strong_Bad> try changing it to 44degrees, does it change the KO%
  1709. [12:15:56] <Veril> it would change at 37
  1710. [12:16:09] <Strong_Bad> did you test a wide variety of characters?
  1711. [12:16:18] <Veril> why would that be necessary
  1712. [12:16:35] <Strong_Bad> because weight and falling speed affect KO%, and the effectiveness of the angle could change based on char
  1713. [12:16:50] <Veril> I used the same character for both tests
  1714. [12:16:52] <Veril> I'm not retarded
  1715. [12:17:00] <Strong_Bad> i know that much
  1716. [12:17:02] <Veril> where does 37 come from
  1717. [12:17:06] <Strong_Bad> magus
  1718. [12:17:29] <Veril> he told me he thought it was 40 when we last spoke iirc
  1719. [12:17:36] <Veril> but that was a while back
  1720. [12:17:44] <Veril> it checks out as 45 experimentally
  1721. [12:17:44] <Strong_Bad> 361° (sp)   Equivalent to 37°. When grounded & below tumble you will remain grounded.
  1722. [12:17:46] <Strong_Bad> 362°        Appears to be the same as 2°.
  1723. [12:17:48] <Strong_Bad> 363° (sp)   0°? Always sends in direction attacker is facing. Unable to cause tumble when grounded unless behind attacker?
  1724. [12:17:49] <Strong_Bad> 364°        Appears to be the same as 4°.
  1725. [12:17:51] <Strong_Bad> 365° (sp)   Trajectory & KB are based on current speed/movement of the attacker, but hitstun is based on normal KB.
  1726. [12:18:07] <Veril> one of those is wrong
  1727. [12:18:10] <Veril> ;p
  1728. [12:18:41] <Veril> dude I already have had this discussion
  1729. [12:18:44] <Veril> btw
  1730. [12:18:50] <Strong_Bad> its k
  1731. [12:20:02] <Veril> I don't know where he got 37
  1732. [12:20:06] <Veril> but I am really curious
  1733. [12:20:11] <Veril> too bad he isn't here
  1734. [12:20:21] <Veril> but he's a melee frame expert
  1735. [12:20:27] <Veril> so I didn't expect him
  1736. [12:20:56] <Veril> so tabuu
  1737. [12:20:59] <Veril> and those hurtboxes
  1738. [12:21:15] <Veril> I'm really really pleased at the availability of that data
  1739. [12:21:24] <Veril> but need to wait till class tomorrow
  1740. [12:21:45] <Veril> well till like an hour before class
  1741. [12:21:57] <Veril> than I can play around with tabuu
  1742. [12:22:06] <Veril> get the hurtbubble data for MK
  1743. [12:22:27] <Veril> and poop out the disjoint values for most of his moveset
  1744. [12:22:30] <Veril> but
  1745. [12:22:44] <Veril> I'll need to look at fitmotion.pac for some moves probably
  1746. [12:23:07] <Veril> but not too often for MK
  1747. [12:25:53] * Veril has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
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  1749. [12:27:21] * SB is now known as Guest17613
  1750. [12:27:35] * mib_ff55ie has joined #Smash_Lab
  1751. [12:27:44] <mib_ff55ie> hello?
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  1753. [12:28:17] * Strong_Bad has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1754. [12:28:19] * Guest17613 is now known as Strong_Bad
  1755. [12:33:59] * Ankoku has left #Smash_Lab
  1756. [12:34:14] <mib_ff55ie> :(
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  1764. [15:26:05] * Tblock has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
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