[20:09] * Reika_ (~Reika@abrarsyed.me) has joined #TinkersConstruct
[20:09] <+Toops> when was...
[20:10] <@mDiyo> I spy a rotarycraft author.
[20:10] <Reika_> You are correct
01[20:10] <iamamitten> does iguana tweaks disable summoning the wither?
[20:10] <+Zerokyuuni> no
[20:10] <+Zerokyuuni> peaceful mode does
01[20:10] <iamamitten> well something is
[20:10] <Reika_> What was with those two commits to DragonAPI?
[20:10] <@mDiyo> Now, would anyone care to explain what was going through their mind when the spamConsole method and detecting reika's computer, err, class were found?
03[20:10] * AbrarSyed (~AbrarSyed@abrarsyed.me) has joined #TinkersConstruct
01[20:10] <iamamitten> oh, right
01[20:10] <iamamitten> I went peaceful to fix my smeltery
01[20:10] <iamamitten> thanks
[20:10] <Reika_> Is this about what Pokefenn said?
[20:10] <@mDiyo> The first one looked like nonsense to me.
[20:10] <Reika_> Basically
[20:10] <@mDiyo> The second one looked like you were enabling development features on every server you joined.
[20:10] <Reika_> No
[20:11] <Reika_> spamConsole is used for printing 16 lines to the console
[20:11] <Reika_> useful for debugging
[20:11] <Reika_> when the console is getting spammed
[20:11] <Reika_> by exceptions
[20:11] <Reika_> or something
[20:11] <Reika_> more lines > more visibility
[20:11] <+Drullkus> Oh my.
01[20:11] <iamamitten> TWO inactive division sigils?
[20:11] <Reika_> never used in release code for obvious reasons
[20:11] <Reika_> as for isReikasComputer()
[20:11] <+Drullkus> Right when I was about to post a MCF thread.
[20:12] <Reika_> that is so only I can get access to not-yet-finished stuff
[20:12] <Reika_> or debug stuff
[20:12] <+Drullkus> Can I get my pickfork.
[20:12] <Reika_> for example
[20:12] <Reika_> on my computer
[20:12] <Reika_> the creative inv has a lot more types of magnetized shaft core
[20:12] <Reika_> again for debuggin
[20:12] <@mDiyo> The first one I could see, but only if you were sloppy with something to begin with.
[20:13] <+Drullkus> I'm not sure how's that fair on a server.
[20:13] <@mDiyo> The second one is in poor taste. It could be named developer computer or some other innocous name.
01[20:13] <iamamitten> although this hole I dug to summon the wither seemed to suffocate it very effectively so I not only took no damage, but dealt it damage with impunity
[20:13] <Reika_> How is that any different?
[20:13] <Reika_> Why does the name matter
[20:13] <Reika_> especially given Reika == developer?
[20:13] <@mDiyo> And having the code in there at all lets other mod developers abuse it.
[20:13] <Reika_> ...?
[20:14] <@mDiyo> What would happen if I were to write a little snippet of code that loaded with DragonAPI that gave everyone the development features?
[20:14] <Reika_> Not exactly possible
[20:14] <Reika_> plus
[20:14] <Reika_> how would that me my fault
[20:14] <Reika_> >>be
[20:14] <+Drullkus> Explain how that would not be possible?
06[20:14] * +Toops rubs wet noodles all over iamamitten
[20:14] <@mDiyo> Let's say I'm an arse and ASM out your default constructor.
03[20:14] * Toops is now known as ToopzZzZz
[20:14] <@pillbox> I'm with Reika; there's no harm in those functions.
[20:14] <Reika_> Then it is YOUR problem
[20:14] <@mDiyo> Let's say I'm more of an arse and I want to cause you problems. :P
[20:14] <Reika_> you asm my code
[20:14] <Reika_> only an idiot would think me responsible
[20:15] <@mDiyo> Okay, fine.
06[20:15] * +Drullkus eats popcorn and cheers for mdiyo
[20:15] <Reika_> That is like saying "I crashed your car, and its yours, so you are at fault"
[20:15] <@mDiyo> Your entire codebase is offputting tbh
[20:15] <Reika_> In what way?
[20:15] <@mDiyo> Every file has the "all rights reserved" blurb.
[20:15] <Reika_> That is called copyright
[20:15] <@mDiyo> Even in files that cannot be copyrighted, they are there.
[20:15] <Reika_> I am allowed to do that
[20:15] <Reika_> Anyone can copyright their own code
[20:16] <@mDiyo> API code cannot be copyrighted in any country that I know of.
[20:16] <Reika_> It is not API code
03[20:16] * TheDarkKnight (~TDK@5-14-22-4.residential.rdsnet.ro) has joined #TinkersConstruct
[20:16] <+Drullkus> Why is it named DragonAPI.
[20:16] <Reika_> DragonAPI is just the name
[20:16] <@mDiyo> It's named DragonAPI
[20:16] <Reika_> I liked the name
[20:16] <+Drullkus> But then it labels it 'API'.
[20:16] <Reika_> No, it does not
06[20:16] * AbrarSyed mentions that a better name would be DragonCore
[20:16] <@pillbox> ^
[20:16] <Reika_> because anyone who understands code would be able to tell
[20:16] <+Zerokyuuni> it's named API, called an API, is used as an API
[20:16] <Reika_> and at this point
[20:16] <Reika_> And now
[20:17] <Reika_> >>no
01[20:17] <iamamitten> it's not inherently, but implied to be, an api
[20:17] <Reika_> it is not used as an api
[20:17] <Reika_> An API is like the mods' API
[20:17] <+Zerokyuuni> if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's not a monkey
[20:17] <@mDiyo> It's a library.
[20:17] <+Drullkus> What is an API? How is it not used like an API?
[20:17] <Reika_> DragonAPI is a library
[20:17] <Reika_> like CCC
[20:17] <Reika_> Nothing tied to any mod
[20:17] <+Drullkus> And what does that mean?
[20:17] <Reika_> ?
[20:18] <Reika_> What does what mean?
[20:18] <+Drullkus> 'Nothing tied to any mod'
[20:18] <Reika_> DragonAPI stands on its own
[20:18] <@mDiyo> I am going to note this: https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/DragonAPI/tree/master/Interfaces
[20:18] <Reika_> it provides all sorts of helper classes
[20:18] <Reika_> that ther mods use
[20:18] <Reika_> but it is not part of those mods
03[20:18] * Sunstrike is now known as Sunstrike|Off
[20:18] <Reika_> again
[20:18] <Reika_> it is like CCC
[20:18] <@mDiyo> Every file in that folder has the blurb as well.
[20:19] <Reika_> Interfaces are not part of an API either
[20:19] <@alexbegt> Diyo: sorry for the pm
[20:19] <Reika_> those are not designed for interfacing with mods
[20:19] <Reika_> or adding to mods
[20:19] <Reika_> or reading from mods
[20:19] <Reika_> they are mostly for flags
[20:19] <Reika_> instanceof
[20:19] <+Drullkus> I have a few crimes to throw at Reika_ once I finish seeing what mDiyo has to say
[20:19] <@mDiyo> Go for it.
02[20:19] * TheDarkKnight (~TDK@5-14-22-4.residential.rdsnet.ro) Quit (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)
[20:19] <+Zerokyuuni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_programming_interface
[20:19] <+Drullkus> Reika_: What does this do? https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/RotaryCraft/blob/master/Items/Tools/Charged/ItemGravelGun.java#L126
[20:19] <+Zerokyuuni> yay definitions
[20:19] <Reika_> Exactly what it looks like
[20:20] <Reika_> I added that after the first time I logged into a server "to help test your mod"
02[20:20] * Lathanael|Away (~Lathanael@p54971C24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 380 seconds)
03[20:20] * Dark_Hunter is now known as Dark_Hunter|Off
[20:20] <Reika_> Someone tried to kill me with my own tool
[20:20] <Reika_> If you consider that a major exploit
[20:20] <Reika_> especially considering I only play ssp
[20:20] <Reika_> Then your senses are skewed
[20:20] <@mDiyo> You only play SSP and you log onto servers where people try to kill you... yeah.
[20:21] <@mDiyo> Somehow I don't think both of those are true.
[20:21] <Reika_> I logged in under the understanding I would be debugging
[20:21] <Reika_> It was a ruse
[20:21] <Reika_> Also"
[20:21] <+Drullkus> "I added that after the first time I logged into a server "to help test your mod"" That seems a bit fishy.
[20:21] <Reika_> "Crime"
[20:21] <@alexbegt> So they try to kill you once, and your like fuck this making it so none can kill me with my tool
[20:21] <+Zerokyuuni> if you only play SSP, then all the SMP code just for yourself isn't necessary >_>
[20:21] <+Drullkus> Yes.
[20:21] <+Drullkus> What zero said.
[20:21] <Reika_> What if I log into another server for debugging?
[20:21] <@mDiyo> Why didn't you disable the tool for that guy instead?
[20:22] <Reika_> Why does it even matter?
[20:22] <@alexbegt> You let them kill you
[20:22] <@alexbegt> Don't be a pussy
[20:22] <+Drullkus> Yeah.
[20:22] <Reika_> @mDiyo
[20:22] <@alexbegt> OH U CAN'T KILL ME HAHAHA
[20:22] <Reika_> What?
[20:22] <Reika_> Are you insane?
[20:22] <+Drullkus> It's part of Minecraft.
[20:22] <@mDiyo> ...
[20:22] <Reika_> Disable the tool for that guy
[20:22] <Reika_> You are telling me to make the code target people
[20:22] <@mDiyo> Yes, a blacklist for the player that killed you.
[20:22] <Reika_> explicitly?
03[20:22] * Lathanael|Away (~Lathanael@p54971EB5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #TinkersConstruct
[20:22] <Reika_> !
[20:22] <Reika_> after you complain about whitelisting me
[20:22] <+Zerokyuuni> you're doing something just as bad
[20:22] <Reika_> am I the only one who can see the hypocrisy?
[20:22] <@mDiyo> Right now you're blacklisting yourself.
[20:22] <Zerotheliger> ok guys with all of this aside there was an original reason for the meeting.
[20:22] <@pillbox> Blacklist would be worse than the implementation that is present.
[20:22] <@mDiyo> This is the reason liger.
[20:23] <Reika_> I agree with pillbox
[20:23] <@mDiyo> There are easter-eggs of Reika-specific code all over the place.
[20:23] <@alexbegt> progwml6, progwml6|L?
[20:23] <@pillbox> If it's true that he only plays SSP, then that code has no real impact
03[20:23] * finkmac (~finkmac@68-68-12-88.applecreek.pathcom.com) has joined #TinkersConstruct
[20:23] <Reika_> So why the freakouts?
[20:23] <Zerotheliger> ok mdiyo why is this an issue though
[20:24] <@mDiyo> If I did the same with my mod, people would hang me for it.
[20:24] <Zerotheliger> besides having invulnerability to his own weapon be that bad or good why is it a problem
[20:24] <Reika_> And they would be wrong to do so
[20:24] <@mDiyo> The problem is that the mod treats Reika differently than it treats everyone else.
[20:24] <Reika_> hardly
[20:24] <Reika_> a few tiny features
[20:24] <Reika_> like that
01[20:24] <iamamitten> I feel like I've seen this conversation before
[20:25] <Reika_> You probably have
[20:25] <Reika_> I get this a lot
[20:25] <@pillbox> Notch drops apples when he's killed.
[20:25] <Zerotheliger> i do not see its going to affect anyone but reika though
[20:25] <@pillbox> FREE APPLES
[20:25] <Reika_> @pill I actually toyed with something similar
01[20:25] <iamamitten> I mean in this channel, this exact conversation.
[20:25] <@mDiyo> hahah
[20:25] <Zerotheliger> why does it affect everyone else?
03[20:25] * Spyboticsguy is now known as Spyboticsguy|afk
[20:25] <Reika_> but then realized it would be putting a bounty on my head
[20:25] <Reika_> So did not do so
[20:25] <+Drullkus> Yet you do it anyway.
01[20:25] <iamamitten> MC sheep sound like goats
[20:26] <@mDiyo> Zerokyuuni: Could you comment on some of the name shenanigans?
[20:26] <Zerotheliger> drull how does it affect you that reika isnt affected by his own tools
[20:26] <+Zerokyuuni> you mean changing his own name on login?
[20:26] <Reika_> I do not
[20:26] <Reika_> I tried that once
[20:26] <+Zerokyuuni> you did
[20:26] <Reika_> broke everything
[20:26] <Reika_> commented it out
[20:26] <Reika_> months ago
[20:26] <Zerotheliger> you cant change your name at log in
[20:27] <Zerotheliger> without using an offline server
[20:27] <+Drullkus> Zerotheliger: Let's say he and I are on a PVP server. By coincidence.
[20:27] <Reika_> Also
[20:27] <Zerotheliger> if you use an offline server you get no suport at all
[20:27] <+Drullkus> Zerotheliger: He does. Actually.
[20:27] <Reika_> Why do I get the feeling people are trawling the code looking for things to freak out over?
[20:27] <+Drullkus> He changes his name.
[20:27] <Reika_> Something tells me my code is not exactly leisure reading
[20:27] <@mDiyo> Because you have the copyright message plastered on every file.
[20:27] <+Drullkus> ^
[20:27] <@mDiyo> You could put that in a license file in the base of the repository.
[20:28] <Zerotheliger> let me say this if you put the work in and write your own code that code is your property period
[20:28] <@mDiyo> You could do that in any number of ways, and instead you decide to make your code a pain to look at.
[20:28] <Reika_> It is a header
[20:28] <Reika_> eclipse autocollapses it
[20:28] <@mDiyo> People are going to go looking for anything out of place because of that.
[20:28] <Reika_> This is what headers are FOR
[20:28] <@mDiyo> Github is not eclipse.
[20:28] <Zerotheliger> your saying that if Big name video game company releases a game its source code HAS to be public
[20:28] <+Drullkus> Reika_: Does github collapse it?
[20:28] <Zerotheliger> its the property of the company
[20:28] <Reika_> No, but that is not my fault
[20:28] <Zerotheliger> not of random people
[20:28] <Reika_> I do not code for pretty reading on GH
[20:28] <@pillbox> 99% of the practical use of a copyright is to prevent others from *selling* your work
[20:28] <Reika_> Besides
[20:29] <Zerotheliger> same applies to any modders code its thier property.
[20:29] <Reika_> the header is less than 8 lines long
[20:29] <Reika_> half my functions are ten times that
[20:29] <@mDiyo> The length of the header does not matter.
[20:29] <Reika_> @pill Trust me, people try
[20:29] <@mDiyo> In fact, it could be a single line that says @author Reika Kalseki Copyright 2014 All rights reserved.
[20:29] <+Drullkus> What matters is how many files it's plastered over.
[20:29] <Zerotheliger> take a que from any other modding community out there i cant name one that forces you to release your source code for public use
[20:29] <+Drullkus> In fact. It's all of them.
[20:29] <@mDiyo> That would be better actually.
[20:29] <Reika_> @mDiyo As long as it has the same effect
[20:29] <Reika_> I am ok with that
[20:30] <Reika_> by "Effect" I mean legally
[20:30] <Reika_> how to say
[20:30] <Reika_> um
[20:30] <@mDiyo> A single license in the base of the repo would have the same legal effect.
[20:30] <Reika_> People modify that
[20:30] <Reika_> And act like it was not C'd
[20:30] <@mDiyo> Hell, not having a license would have the same effect.
[20:30] <+ToopzZzZz> so sayeth the Mojang's Minecraft TOS: If you make any content available on or through our Game, you must give us permission to use, copy, modify and adapt that content. This permission must be irrevocable, and you must also let us permit other people to use, copy, modify and adapt your content. If you don‘t want to give us this permission, do not make content available on or through
[20:30] <+ToopzZzZz> our Game. Please think carefully before you make any content available, because it will be made public and might even be used by other people in a way you don‘t like.
[20:30] <Zerotheliger> they reverted that TOS
[20:30] <Reika_> https://github.com/rfox90/GeoStrata
[20:30] <@mDiyo> By that logic, what's to stop someone from changing the line in every file?
[20:30] <Reika_> Look what he did to my license file
[20:31] <Reika_> @mDiyo headers are a pain to change all of them
[20:31] <@mDiyo> Mojang did not revert the ToS, they've changed it at least six times.
[20:31] <@mDiyo> Really?
[20:31] <@mDiyo> I could change all of them in seconds.
[20:31] <Zerotheliger> that specific line does not exsist anymore because of how toxic it was
01[20:31] <iamamitten> oh my god, the blockh money symbol
[20:31] <Reika_> @Toop we have been over this dozens of times
[20:31] <Zerotheliger> they are re writing it
[20:31] <+ToopzZzZz> that's what's currently posted
[20:31] <Reika_> even my FAQ has something
[20:31] <Reika_> the new terms explicitly say
[20:31] <Reika_> among other things
[20:31] <Mortvana> Ooh, a Reika o/
[20:31] <Reika_> "you remain the owner of your own content"
[20:31] <Reika_> hello mort
[20:31] <Zerotheliger> also that doesnt mean that some random person can redo his code and claim it
[20:32] <Reika_> Exactly
[20:32] <Zerotheliger> know the laws first
[20:32] <Reika_> no matter what mojang says
[20:32] <@mDiyo> The old terms said that as well.
[20:32] <Reika_> CC law wins
[20:32] <Reika_> >>CR
03[20:32] * Lily_White (~IceChat9@65.207.22.5) has joined #TinkersConstruct
[20:32] <Zerotheliger> know Copyright laws before you try to paste a line
[20:32] <Lily_White> GREETINGS ROM WASHINGTON DC!
[20:32] <Zerotheliger> that only applied to mojang
[20:32] <@mDiyo> ...
[20:32] <Zerotheliger> not random people
[20:32] <+ToopzZzZz> uh
[20:32] <@mDiyo> Zerotheliger: Stop parroting everything Reika says.
01[20:32] <iamamitten> you'll never seduce me from there, lily, it's on the other side of the country
[20:33] <@mDiyo> Now let me put it this way: The chances of anyone going to court over anything in the modding community is slim to none.
[20:33] <Reika_> Why does everyone always assume court is the only option?
[20:33] <@mDiyo> There's no money involved, the amount of things you can get out of it aren't worthwhile.
[20:33] <+Drullkus> I see Zerotheliger is also on #Rotarycraft
[20:33] <@mDiyo> You're talking about legal. Legal always involves court.
[20:33] <Reika_> No
[20:33] <Reika_> for example
[20:33] <Reika_> if they copy the code
[20:33] <Reika_> and host it
[20:34] <Reika_> I can flag it for infringement
[20:34] <Zerotheliger> legal also involves a cease order as well
[20:34] <Reika_> same with compiled binaries
[20:34] <@mDiyo> Flag it where? On what?
[20:34] <Zerotheliger> you dont have to go to cort you can serve legal documents as a warning
[20:34] <Reika_> DMCA
[20:34] <@mDiyo> I could host it on dropbox. They don't care about DMCA
[20:34] <Reika_> I can use a C&D too
[20:34] <+Zerokyuuni> the DMCA has a little thing called "counter claims". which then means court
03[20:34] * Othlon (~textual@122-148-158-2.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) has joined #TinkersConstruct
[20:34] <@mDiyo> I could host it in New Zealand. They don't have anything like DMCA
[20:34] <@pillbox> Copyrights are like locks on doors; criminals will break your window. Locks demonstrate your willingness to protect what's yours
[20:34] <finkmac> never hurts to have a lock
[20:34] <@pillbox> Copyrights keep honest people honest
[20:34] <Reika_> The reason I copyright is to prevent malicious modificatiopn
01[20:35] <iamamitten> it does if you're locked into position in a guillotine
[20:35] <Reika_> Do you have any idea how many people try to sell RC content?
[20:35] <@mDiyo> Fine.
[20:35] <@alexbegt> http://i.imgur.com/985hj47.gif
[20:35] <Reika_> Often with code edits?
[20:35] <@mDiyo> I do not like the way you're going about declaring your copyright.
[20:35] <Reika_> ...?
[20:35] <MoxieGrrl|MoxArcana> Or if you're locked into an Iron Maiden. That's rather painful.
[20:35] <@mDiyo> Until it gets changed, I will never like it.
[20:35] <Reika_> So shorten the header and you are happy?
[20:35] <@mDiyo> No, move it to a license file and I would be happy.
[20:36] <Reika_> I am not removing it entirely
01[20:36] <iamamitten> can I feed a beacon with a hopper?
[20:36] <Reika_> ...Beacons do not consume items
[20:36] <@mDiyo> Beacons aren't IInventory, so no.
[20:36] <+Zerokyuuni> feed it bacon?
[20:36] <+Zerokyuuni> yes they do
[20:36] <Reika_> Not in vanilla
[20:36] <Reika_> unless that change
[20:36] <@mDiyo> Yes they do.
[20:36] <@mDiyo> You have to give them an iron or gold ingot, or a gem to start them.
[20:37] <Reika_> to start
[20:37] <@mDiyo> You have to do the same to change them.
[20:37] <Reika_> but it lasts forever
[20:37] <Reika_> that is what I meant
01[20:37] <iamamitten> yeah, I have all these diamonds I'm never going to use
[20:37] <@mDiyo> They consumed an item. :P
03[20:37] * justastranger|GTA4 is now known as justastranger|zzz
[20:37] <+Zerokyuuni> that's still the definition if consume
06[20:37] * MoxieGrrl|MoxArcana consumes a cookie
[20:38] <@pillbox> If you had a Jamaican accent, people would not be able to determine whether you said "bacon" or "beacon"
[20:38] <@mDiyo> While I'm at it, why is every commit on DragonAPI "Update"?
[20:38] <+Zerokyuuni> bacon beacon
01[20:38] <iamamitten> I do have dartcraft, I want a bacon beacon
[20:38] <MoxieGrrl|MoxArcana> Yes.
[20:38] <MoxieGrrl|MoxArcana> Get on that.
[20:38] <MoxieGrrl|MoxArcana> I want creeper tots as its own mod. :|
[20:39] <Reika_> Saves time
[20:39] <Reika_> I usually commit in seconds
[20:39] <Reika_> before I have to go
[20:39] <Reika_> and am in a rush
[20:39] <Reika_> plus
[20:39] <Reika_> most commits
[20:39] <@mDiyo> I suppose that's valid, but completely uninformative to the curious.
[20:39] <Reika_> could not be summarized
[20:39] <Reika_> they change too much
[20:39] <@mDiyo> Yes they can.
[20:39] <Reika_> I do not make little commtis
[20:39] <@pillbox> Commit in a rush: having CI that spams the channel on failure deters that! ^_^
[20:39] <Reika_> I make big edited-500-line commits
[20:39] <@mDiyo> So put in the largest file you edited or bug you fixed.
[20:40] <Reika_> I usually have no clear idea what it is
06[20:40] * @mDiyo frowns
[20:40] <@mDiyo> So you code blind?
[20:40] <Reika_> No...
[20:40] <Reika_> I just do not remember every edit I make
[20:41] <@mDiyo> You don't have to remember every edit. Even the last one you made would be better than "Update" every time.
[20:41] <Reika_> That would be misleading
[20:41] <@pillbox> Well, I would recommend working on local branches, for directed dev and then merge-squash with a summation of all the squashed commits
[20:41] <Reika_> ?
[20:41] <@pillbox> But I only recommend that because it helps you stay focused on tasks
[20:41] <Reika_> I use GitHub like dropbox
[20:41] <SurrealDelight> 45 gig in my trash can o.o
[20:41] <Reika_> not like what it was designed for
[20:41] <Reika_> the branching stuff
[20:41] <Reika_> I code on two PCs
[20:41] <Reika_> and dropbox cannot run at home
[20:42] <Reika_> net too slow
[20:42] <@pillbox> Yeah, multi-pc dev causes me problems too
[20:42] <@mDiyo> git branch <name>
[20:42] <@mDiyo> git checkout <name>
[20:42] <@mDiyo> Done? :p
[20:42] <Reika_> ...I use a client
[20:42] <Reika_> No script crap
[20:42] <@pillbox> Oh, you should learn git cli
[20:42] <@pillbox> It's useful.
[20:42] <@mDiyo> https://windows.github.com/
[20:42] <@mDiyo> It comes with a command line.
[20:42] <@pillbox> It will literally improve your coding habits.
[20:42] <Reika_> @mDiyo That is what I use
[20:42] <+Glassmaker> you can change branches on client
[20:42] <@mDiyo> Well then, learn to use the command line. :P
[20:42] <Reika_> I like the "3 clicks and done"
[20:43] <Reika_> again
[20:43] <Reika_> time
[20:43] <Reika_> I usually have less than 30 seconds to commit
[20:43] <@pillbox> All of that said; it's your project, I have no idea why people care what your commits look like
[20:43] <Reika_> ^^
[20:43] <Reika_> My suspicion is
[20:43] <TheMike|Mobile> http://git-scm.com/book/en/Getting-Started < CLI docs
[20:43] <Reika_> A lot of programmers are very proscriptive
[20:43] <Reika_> that is
[20:43] <@mDiyo> I only care insomuch as people bring it up every so often and see "Update" every time.
[20:43] <@Fractuality> I feel like tinkers is always a warzone.
[20:43] <@mDiyo> It's open code. People are going to look.
06[20:44] * +Zerokyuuni readies the cannon
[20:44] <Reika_> they tend to feel they have a duty to make everyone align with "standards"
[20:44] <@pillbox> I could see some people interpreting "Update" as an imperitive
[20:44] <@pillbox> Meaning, "Update your stuff now, this is important"
03[20:44] * Dark_Hunter|Off is now known as Dark_Hunter
[20:44] <Reika_> Hence why someone spent 500 lines crucifying the fact I capitalize package names
[20:44] <Reika_> And I laughed at them
[20:44] <@pillbox> Rather than, "I changed some stuff; that is the definition of updated"
[20:44] <@mDiyo> Updated would be slightly better somehow. :P
01[20:44] <iamamitten> I'm one-shotting everything that isn't an enderman
01[20:44] <iamamitten> this is great
[20:45] <@pillbox> Except it's bad form to describe commits in past-tense
[20:45] <@pillbox> They should always be action-items
[20:45] <@pillbox> Not accounts of actions
[20:45] <Reika_> I really do not think it should matter
[20:45] <+tterrag> iamamitten: everyone is out arguing, and you're just sitting there playing minecraft
[20:45] <Reika_> readability is key
[20:45] <Reika_> Same with code actually
[20:45] <@pillbox> "- Solving NPE in module X"
[20:45] <@mDiyo> Why is the mod's code availlable in the first place?
[20:45] <@pillbox> Or "- Rewriting functions x(), y(), z()"
[20:45] <Reika_> Visible source brings benefits
[20:45] <Reika_> eg
[20:45] <@pillbox> Not "Solved NPE. Rewrote functions"
[20:46] <Reika_> people learn from it
[20:46] <Reika_> and people can supply "I found a bug"
[20:46] <Reika_> plus
[20:46] <Reika_> if you think people hate CC'd code
[20:46] <Reika_> imagine how they would react to closed src
[20:46] <Reika_> people HATE that
[20:46] <@mDiyo> CC'd?
[20:46] <Reika_> coyright
[20:46] <@mDiyo> What does the other C stand for?
[20:46] <Reika_> Not sure where that came from
[20:46] <Reika_> um
[20:46] <Reika_> no idea
[20:46] <Reika_> maybe the circle around it?
[20:46] <Reika_> I just saw it somewhere
[20:47] <Reika_> and it is faster
[20:47] <Reika_> to type
[20:47] <+tterrag> creative copyright?
[20:47] <+tterrag> idk
[20:47] <+Zerokyuuni> closed source is better than "open code"
[20:47] <Reika_> @Zero you would be in the minority for that
[20:47] <+Zerokyuuni> as you're actually commited on something rather than flipflopping
[20:47] <Reika_> ?
[20:47] <@mDiyo> You have open code, closed source.
[20:47] <Reika_> "Visible Source" is the legal term
[20:48] <Reika_> I looked it up
[20:48] <@mDiyo> Indeed.
[20:48] <Reika_> It brings practical use
[20:48] <Reika_> So I use it
[20:48] <+Zerokyuuni> "here's the code. do not touch" is.... ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[20:48] <Reika_> I do not really care what people think is more "right"
[20:48] <@pillbox> Visible Source is bigger than you might realize
[20:48] <+tterrag> So you say "I don't make small commits" as your reason for the plain commit messages
[20:48] <+tterrag> well...why don't you?
[20:48] <@pillbox> A large portion of the world runs on software and hardware supported by visible source.
[20:48] <Reika_> I commit once a day usually
[20:49] <Reika_> Again, I use it for sync
[20:49] <Reika_> And I spend 4-12 hours a day coding
[20:49] <Reika_> so a lot changes
[20:49] <TheMike|Mobile> Why not put it under a copyleft license, such as GPL? The code would be safe from people selling it, and it would always remain free.
[20:49] <+tterrag> commit multiple times and then push all at once
[20:49] <Reika_> because that encourages redistribution and modification
[20:49] <+tterrag> it doesn't take that long
[20:49] <Reika_> Takes longer than I have
[20:49] <+tterrag> 10 seconds?
[20:49] <+tterrag> maybe?
[20:49] <@mDiyo> There's a little bit of hipocracy in that.
[20:49] <Reika_> Plus that seems messy
[20:49] <Reika_> and on my laptop
[20:49] <Reika_> slow
[20:50] <@mDiyo> Your code modifies a game and you don't want it modified.
[20:50] <Reika_> that thing gets 5FPS in windows explorer
02[20:50] * SurrealDelight (~SurrealDe@ool-44c0e949.dyn.optonline.net) Quit
[20:50] <+tterrag> processor speed hardly effects upload speed
[20:50] <Reika_> @mDiyo So I assume you hate AE, ThaumCraft, TE3, and similar, yes?
[20:50] <+tterrag> oh that is bad
[20:50] <Zerotheliger> meow brb
[20:50] <@mDiyo> No, I hate you for putting words in my mouth.
[20:50] <Reika_> Points for honesty I suppose
[20:50] <@mDiyo> Would you like to try again?
[20:50] <finkmac> hate is such a strong word
[20:50] <@pillbox> Anyway, this is dreadful^Wfascinating but it's bedtime.
[20:50] <@pillbox> o/
[20:50] <Reika_> Good night
[20:51] <@mDiyo> Night-o
[20:51] <+Zerokyuuni> none of those mods crash the game for modifying them >_>
[20:51] <+tterrag> ^
[20:51] <+Glassmaker> night night pill :)
[20:51] <Reika_> You would crash anyways
[20:51] <+Zerokyuuni> wrong
[20:51] <Reika_> if you overwrite or delete parts of RC
[20:51] <@mDiyo> Maybe, but maybe not.
[20:51] <Reika_> It is written with the assumption it exists and is undamaged
[20:51] <@mDiyo> I'd go with 95% not for rotarycraft.
[20:51] <@mDiyo> That is always a bad assumption.
[20:51] <Reika_> No
[20:52] <Reika_> It is not unreasonable to assume you exist
[20:52] <+tterrag> in programming?
[20:52] <Reika_> That is like when people complained when I assumed "EntityCreeper" existed
[20:52] <@mDiyo> Undamaged is the bad assumption.
[20:52] <+Drullkus> Back.
[20:52] <Reika_> and it crashed when some mod ASMed it
[20:52] <+tterrag> "does exist" should never be the standard when programming
[20:52] <+tterrag> always make sure something exists, no?
[20:52] <@mDiyo> That should be the baseline, not the standard.
[20:52] <+Drullkus> Reika_: Because he didn't stab the heart of the shield.
[20:52] <Reika_> I am not filling my code with != null checks or instanceof checks just in case some idiot decides to overwrite things
[20:52] <Reika_> or delete things
[20:53] <Reika_> that integrity checker is only there so I can give a meaningful log
[20:53] <Reika_> instead of a random NPE
[20:53] <Reika_> or classcast
[20:53] <@mDiyo> Which integrity checker?
[20:53] <+tterrag> null checks are just part of modding
[20:53] <Reika_> The thing Pokefenn flipped out about
[20:53] <+tterrag> "modify" is part of the game
[20:53] <@mDiyo> Link please?
[20:53] <Reika_> basically checks if all my blocks and items are not null
[20:54] <+Drullkus> I've been looking for Fenn's claims.
[20:54] <Reika_> https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/DragonAPI/blob/master/Auxiliary/IntegrityChecker.java
[20:54] <Reika_> his twitter
[20:54] <Reika_> yesterday
[20:54] <Reika_> "DRM"
[20:54] <+Drullkus> Reika_: I can stab there, actually...
[20:54] <+tterrag> technically that is rather DRM-esque
[20:54] <@mDiyo> That's not DRM
[20:54] <Reika_> All my registries are enum-based
[20:54] <+tterrag> maybe not by strict definition
[20:54] <Reika_> And I iterate to register
02[20:54] * TheMike|Mobile (~textual@static-70-105-184-173.altnpa.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[20:54] <Reika_> and for some other things
[20:55] <Reika_> if you null one out
[20:55] <Reika_> or replace it
[20:55] <@mDiyo> Digital Rights Management
[20:55] <Reika_> that iteration will crash
[20:55] <Reika_> often in some random code
[20:55] <@mDiyo> This does nothing to manage how the player is going to play with the mod.
[20:55] <Reika_> like "getMachineFromIDAndMeta"
[20:55] <Reika_> @mDiyo
[20:55] <Reika_> Thank you
[20:55] <+tterrag> well what would you call it then?
[20:55] <Reika_> An integrity check
[20:55] <@mDiyo> This is closer to a self-check to make sure things are in order.
03[20:55] * sneezing_panda (sneezing@panda.znc.freq.in) has joined #TinkersConstruct
[20:55] <@mDiyo> Like when a zip file checks its md5
[20:55] <Reika_> 90% of the time this crash is from ID conflicts
03[20:56] * Tivec (Tivec@2001:41d0:8:206::) has joined #TinkersConstruct
[20:56] <Reika_> 99% actually
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[20:56] <Reika_> easy to fix
[20:56] <Reika_> hardly controlling peoples' use
[20:56] <@mDiyo> You should be letting the ID conflicts happen.
[20:56] <+tterrag> ^
[20:56] <Reika_> No
[20:56] <Reika_> that causes problems
[20:56] <+tterrag> sure it does
[20:56] <Reika_> because forge does not catch item or potion or biomes
[20:56] <starr274> so if I wanted to disable a block on my server so it had to be spawned in by a op in the config file it wouldn't work ?
[20:56] <Reika_> leading to major corruption
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[20:56] <+Zerokyuuni> fml has things to go "yo dawg, id conflict"
[20:56] <Reika_> @starr?
[20:56] <Reika_> @zero blocks only
[20:56] <+Zerokyuuni> no
[20:56] <@mDiyo> That doesn't lead to major corruption.
[20:56] <+tterrag> no
[20:56] <+Zerokyuuni> ids too
[20:57] <+Glassmaker> items too
[20:57] <+Zerokyuuni> item ids
[20:57] <Reika_> It does not crash
[20:57] <Reika_> So most players never even know
[20:57] <@mDiyo> No, but it ends up in the log.
[20:57] <Reika_> and biomes and potions not at all
[20:57] <+tterrag> it doesn't need to crash
[20:57] <+Drullkus> Yes
[20:57] <Reika_> so you get major problems
[20:57] <+tterrag> you don't need to handhold players
[20:57] <+Drullkus> Forge logs that it's replacing an item
[20:57] <+Drullkus> Or block.
[20:57] <+Drullkus> So you'd know.
[20:57] <@mDiyo> Those problems aren't always major.
[20:57] <Reika_> @Drull 90% of users do not read logs
[20:57] <+Drullkus> FML always logs.
[20:57] <Reika_> @mDiyo they sometimes are
[20:57] <Reika_> and even once is unacceptable
[20:57] <+Drullkus> Reika_: Why why help them anyway?
[20:57] <Reika_> because I get blamed
[20:58] <+Drullkus> Reika_: Are you under fire right now?
[20:58] <Reika_> I would argue moderately
[20:58] <@mDiyo> Well, I blame you for doing things differently than how other mods do it.
[20:58] <Reika_> Point is
[20:58] <+Drullkus> And why?
[20:58] <Reika_> Wait
06[20:58] * @mDiyo snickers
[20:58] <Reika_> what
[20:58] <Reika_> @mDiyo
03[20:58] * jb_aero|away (jbaero@2001:470:1f07:8d7:6:6:6:47) has joined #TinkersConstruct
[20:58] <Reika_> really?
[20:58] <Reika_> REally?
03[20:58] * SurrealDelight (~SurrealDe@ool-44c0e949.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #TinkersConstruct
[20:58] <@mDiyo> Slightly yes.
[20:58] <Reika_> Did you just basically say "everyone should do everything the same"?
[20:59] <@mDiyo> No, users are used to finding and solving item ID conflicts when they pop up.
[20:59] <Reika_> A lot are not
[20:59] <Reika_> Point is
[20:59] <Reika_> These extra checks
[20:59] <@progwml6|L> if they aren't they need to learn
[20:59] <Reika_> cut my "idiot reports" by a factor or 10
[20:59] <Reika_> saves tons of time
[20:59] <+Drullkus> The problem is
[20:59] <@mDiyo> Blocks always crash. You should not have to check those.
01[20:59] <iamamitten> http://i.imgur.com/C1cGJhO.jpg
[20:59] <Reika_> I do not
[20:59] <+Drullkus> It deletes the productivity modders can do with your mod.
[20:59] <Reika_> not for ID conflicts
[21:00] <Reika_> ???
[21:00] <+Drullkus> Yes.
[21:00] <Reika_> What do you mean?
[21:00] <+Zerokyuuni> the problem is you go nuclear the first time something happens >.>
[21:00] <@mDiyo> Items don't always crash, but item ID conflicts don't cause corruption in any way.
[21:00] <Reika_> Yes they often do
[21:00] <Reika_> I have seen it
[21:00] <@mDiyo> Give one example?
[21:00] <+Drullkus> Reika_: Provide evidence, please
[21:00] <Reika_> One of my ReactorCraft Items
[21:00] <+Drullkus> Hard evidence, not a claim.
[21:00] <+Drullkus> A link, or a picture.
[21:00] <Reika_> nuclear waste and some tool
[21:00] <+Drullkus> Or a log.
[21:00] <Reika_> from some mod
[21:00] <@progwml6|L> just use 1.7 id's are gone :p
[21:00] <+Drullkus> I want a first source evidence.
[21:00] <@mDiyo> I want a world download or a crashlog or another user's post or something else.
[21:00] <Reika_> Then go read my thread
[21:00] <+Drullkus> Not a second-source.
[21:01] <Reika_> I am not going through 700 pages
[21:01] <Reika_> for this
[21:01] <@mDiyo> Then why should we?
[21:01] <+Drullkus> Have you heard of burden of proof?
[21:01] <Reika_> You do not need to
[21:01] <Reika_> You are the one who cares
[21:01] <@pillbox> Item conflicts can cause issues
[21:01] <Reika_> and the one who is trying to tell me what to do
[21:01] <Reika_> as if you get to control that
[21:01] <@pillbox> Imagine TCon tool that gets interpreted by another Item class that uses NBT heavily.
[21:01] <+Drullkus> And the other one is acting like a child.
[21:01] <@mDiyo> Hmm.
[21:01] <@mDiyo> I could tell you to get out.
[21:01] <Reika_> Biomes are even worse
[21:01] <Reika_> ever see that happen?
[21:02] <+Drullkus> No
[21:02] <@mDiyo> I've seen that one happen.
[21:02] <+Drullkus> I can't ever fathom what happens if you replace biomes.
[21:02] <Reika_> You get massive areas of wrong biome in random places
[21:02] <@progwml6|L> we all know biome id conflicts arebad
[21:02] <Reika_> I had TF dark forest in the overworld
[21:02] <Reika_> I was pissed
[21:02] <Reika_> wrecked my world
[21:02] <@mDiyo> The integrity checker you linked does not check biome IDs, it checks blocks and items.
[21:02] <+tterrag> btw progwml6|L I'm gonna make a PR with those crafting station changes tomorrow for the new stable release
[21:02] <Reika_> I have a tracker for biomes
[21:02] <MoxieGrrl|MoxArcana> Vike had TF thorns in his overworld in 1.7. That was interesting.
[21:02] <Reika_> and one for potions too
[21:02] <@mDiyo> All I'm saying is that the block check is unnecessary.
[21:02] <Reika_> CollisionTrackers
[21:02] <Reika_> the block check
[21:02] <Reika_> is not for IDs
[21:02] <Reika_> it does not check blockList
[21:02] <@progwml6|L> for waht versoin tterag?
[21:02] <Reika_> It checks my enums
[21:03] <+tterrag> progwml6|L: 1.6
[21:03] <@progwml6|L> then talk to diyo
[21:03] <Reika_> the values()
[21:03] <@progwml6|L> he's dealing w/ 1.6 i'm not
[21:03] <+tterrag> btw mDiyo I'm gonna make a PR with those crafting station changes tomorrow for the new stable release
[21:03] <@mDiyo> Sounds fine to me.
[21:03] <+tterrag> ok cool
[21:03] <+tterrag> lol
[21:03] <@mDiyo> Why do you have enums for blocks Reika?
[21:03] <Reika_> Type safe
[21:03] <Reika_> easy
[21:03] <@mDiyo> Block is type safe.
[21:04] <Reika_> self-writing
[21:04] <Reika_> mostly
[21:04] <@mDiyo> Why do you have an enum and not something else?
[21:04] <Reika_> I add an entry to an enum
[21:04] <Reika_> and the rest of it is done for me
[21:04] <Reika_> Saves lots of time
[21:04] <Reika_> Makes programming easy
[21:04] <+Drullkus> Something doesn't make sense here.
[21:04] <Reika_> Basicallyu
[21:04] <starr274> Huh Mojangs upto MC 1.7.9 now oddly
[21:04] <@mDiyo> How does it make programming easy?
[21:04] <Reika_> The arguments in the enum
02[21:04] * Lily_White (~IceChat9@65.207.22.5) Quit (Quit: Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?)
[21:04] <Reika_> are the block class
[21:04] <@mDiyo> What does it do of the rest for you?
[21:04] <Reika_> and maybe something else
[21:04] <Reika_> then
[21:04] <Reika_> I iterate
[21:04] <Reika_> and reflectively instantiate
[21:04] <+tterrag> his reflection helpers will instantiate every enum entry
[21:04] <Reika_> and done
06[21:05] * @mDiyo frowns
[21:05] <Reika_> exactly
[21:05] <@mDiyo> Reflection is 10x slower than regular code.
[21:05] <@pillbox> That's something I disagree: saving some keystrokes once to add init cycles millions of times across everybody's instantiation of their Minecraft sessions.
[21:05] <+tterrag> it's only on load
[21:05] <+tterrag> but
[21:05] <@mDiyo> Reflection on enums is somewhere on the range of 1000x slower.
[21:05] <+tterrag> I agree nevertheless
[21:05] <Reika_> It adds ms to load time
[21:05] <Reika_> not noticeable
[21:05] <Reika_> plus
[21:05] <Reika_> half of those "X is slow" rules
[21:05] <@mDiyo> How many blocks do you have?
[21:05] <Reika_> are from the 90s
[21:05] <Reika_> about 12
[21:05] <@mDiyo> I profiled this myself. It's not a rule.
[21:06] <Reika_> Only some of reflection is slow
[21:06] <Reika_> get
[21:06] <Reika_> getField and the like
[21:06] <@mDiyo> Reflection is anywhere from 5-100x slower than regular code, but averages to about 10x
[21:06] <Reika_> those are
[21:06] <@pillbox> Reflection should always be done via Singleton.
[21:06] <Reika_> but things like .newInstance()
[21:06] <@mDiyo> getField is pretty bad.
[21:06] <Reika_> and field.set()
[21:06] <Reika_> are nearly the same
[21:06] <Reika_> especially if you do it more than once
[21:06] <Reika_> the JVM is smart
[21:06] <Reika_> and optimizes it
[21:06] <Reika_> gens bytecode
[21:06] <@pillbox> getField should be inited in a singleton
[21:06] <Reika_> at runtime
[21:06] <@mDiyo> That's done at runtime.
[21:07] <Reika_> @pill I do
[21:07] <@pillbox> So you don't getField() every time.
[21:07] <@progwml6|L> you need to do it like 20 times for that to take place at runtime
[21:07] <Reika_> This is true
[21:07] <@mDiyo> How many blocks are in the mod?
[21:07] <Reika_> Depends on the mod
[21:07] <Reika_> in RC about 15
[21:07] <Reika_> do not remember
[21:08] <@mDiyo> I think I see why you're doing all of the verification hackery now.
[21:08] <@mDiyo> I... :|
[21:08] <Reika_> the cached arrays are public static final
[21:08] <Reika_> anyone could in theory hack them
[21:08] <Reika_> and that would crash
[21:08] <Reika_> so I check
[21:08] <Reika_> to prevent that
[21:08] <Reika_> It is never legitimately an issue
[21:08] <Reika_> There is no valid reason to null out or overwrite things
[21:09] <@progwml6|L> why does this matter... just use 1.7.2 no more of these ID issues except for the fricken biomes
[21:09] <Reika_> This code dates from 1.4.7
[21:09] <Reika_> And I will still use enums in 1.6
[21:09] <Reika_> >>1.7
[21:09] <Reika_> though obviously it is going to need redesign
[21:09] <+Zerokyuuni> update
[21:09] <+Zerokyuuni> :V
02[21:09] * SavaBNC (Sava@2604:2880::2192:9459) Quit (Ping timeout: 194 seconds)
[21:09] <Reika_> I follow the packs
[21:09] <@progwml6|L> won't need nearly as much hackery
[21:09] <Reika_> probably true
[21:09] <@progwml6|L> or conflict handling unless you deal w/ biomes
[21:10] <Reika_> and potions
[21:10] <Reika_> but yes
[21:10] <@progwml6|L> potions usually are not as bad as biomes are
[21:10] <@mDiyo> Where did you learn to code?
[21:10] <Reika_> can be
[21:10] <Reika_> self taught
[21:10] <Reika_> as for potions
[21:10] <@progwml6|L> biomes conflict more often
[21:10] <Reika_> you should have seen the conflict between Radiation Poisoning and AM2
[21:10] <@mDiyo> Do you know any languages other than Java?
[21:10] <Reika_> C, assembler, basic
[21:10] <Reika_> uh
[21:10] <Reika_> some C++
[21:11] <Reika_> why?
02[21:11] * Kitsyfluff (~Kitsyfluf@163.sub-174-254-80.myvzw.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:11] <@mDiyo> Curiosity
[21:11] <Reika_> ok'
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[21:12] <Reika_> But you should have seen that potion overwrite
[21:12] <Reika_> kind of funny actually
[21:12] <Reika_> some AM2 potion was getting overwritten with radiation poisoning
[21:12] <Reika_> so people try to get some buff
[21:12] <Reika_> and instead get a 60-min slow death
[21:12] <Reika_> with slowness 4 and periodic nausea
02[21:13] * Goshen (~Goshen@c-67-177-1-53.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
01[21:15] <iamamitten> haha
01[21:15] <iamamitten> that sounds like what calclavia did with the status "wither"
01[21:15] <iamamitten> he renamed it "radiation" and gave it AOE from his uranium blocks
[21:15] <+Drullkus> Lol
[21:15] <+Zerokyuuni> aoe that passed from person to person, right?
[21:16] <+Glassmaker> o.o
[21:16] <+Glassmaker> a virus D:
[21:16] <Reika_> I heard about that
[21:16] <+Zerokyuuni> yea, that's just stupid
[21:16] <Reika_> I think DarkCow came to me about that
[21:16] <+Zerokyuuni> hilarious if it hit a fleshgolem though
[21:17] <+Drullkus> xD
[21:17] <+Drullkus> Flesh Golem cancer?
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[21:20] <+`092> fuck you too, verizon
[21:20] <Reika_> Bell is just as bad
[21:20] <+`092> no
02[21:20] * +Zerokyuuni (~Zerokyuun@56.sub-75-252-143.myvzw.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)
[21:20] <+`092> verizon is worst
[21:20] <Reika_> They hold a monopoly here
[21:20] <finkmac> semicolon cancer?
02[21:20] * BAWKI (bawki@mail.epow0.org) Quit (Ping timeout: 380 seconds)
[21:20] <+`092> verizon sued the FCC just so they don't have to follow net neutrality
[21:20] <Reika_> Bell is trying to do the same
[21:20] <@alexbegt> gg `092\
[21:20] <Reika_> And also tried to sue the CRTC (our equivalent)
[21:20] <Reika_> so that they could
[21:21] <Reika_> charge more than legally allowed
[21:21] <+`092> and then went "don't worry, we won't abuse our newfound abusive power"
[21:21] <Reika_> and have longer plans
[21:21] <Reika_> than legally allowed
[21:21] <Reika_> eg 5 year contracts with $2K termination penalty if you terminate within 6 months
[21:21] <finkmac> iirc the government mandates 2 year max for plans these days
[21:21] <Reika_> they do, yes
[21:21] <Reika_> but Bell tries
[21:21] <Reika_> they are the Walmart of ISPs
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[21:22] <+Drullkus> I fail to know what ISP means.
[21:22] <+`092> the internet i have is unlimited data. verizon USED TO flat out cut the internet off after an arbitrary amount of data. now they just throttle to around 53,000ms ping times
[21:22] <finkmac> internet service provider
[21:22] <finkmac> it's meant that for over 20 years
[21:22] <finkmac> bell is more than an ISP, though
[21:22] <finkmac> they own the lines, they have TV service, etc
[21:22] <Reika_> exactly
[21:22] <Reika_> they paid for all of it
[21:23] <Reika_> back in the 60s
[21:23] <+`092> verizon is still phone and internet :/
[21:23] <Reika_> so now they own it all
[21:23] <finkmac> they built all the lines
[21:23] <finkmac> way earlier than the 60s
[21:23] <Reika_> They are the reason my upload speed is too low to measure
02[21:23] * SoundLogic (~SoundLogi@172-8-201-53.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)
[21:23] <Reika_> And my ping sometimes exceeds 20s
[21:23] <+`092> let me tell you, getting the internet CUT THE FUCK OFF after 50mb of data was transmitted sucks shit, so hard
01[21:23] <iamamitten> japan is really weird, man
01[21:23] <iamamitten> http://i.imgur.com/CijFx9E.jpg?1
[21:24] <Reika_> Trust me I know
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[21:24] <Reika_> "Oh, you changed plans to something cheaper?" *cut line for a week*
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[21:24] <Reika_> That happened to me last Sept
[21:24] <+`092> my ping, this week, has averaged over 30s :(
[21:24] <Reika_> or oct