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BUA Musical Mental Health Skype Call Text

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  1. Hi, I was asked to create a skype group for the mental illness reddit thread, so I added everyone who posted anything on the reddit thread.
  2. [6/29/2014 10:13:31 AM] Reuben Stern: What's your reddit name, sarah?
  3. [6/29/2014 10:13:38 AM] Sarah Hough: Pereus.
  4. [6/29/2014 10:13:47 AM] Reuben Stern: I thought so :P
  5. [6/29/2014 10:14:04 AM] Sarah Hough: I didn't add anything to the thread yet but I'm very interested in doing something mental illness related.
  6. [6/29/2014 10:14:39 AM] Sarah Hough: Anyways, I have to run now,but if people want to continue any of the discussions began on reddit, please feel free. And remember that we wanted to have the topic by Tuesday!!!
  7. [6/29/2014 10:15:34 AM] Reuben Stern: We should have an actual call later today or tomorrow
  8. [6/29/2014 10:16:16 AM] Sarah Hough: Definitely. How about people post their availability here?
  9. [6/29/2014 10:16:19 AM] joy.blanchard65: I probably can't do later today, but I might be able to do tomorrow afternoon.
  10. [6/29/2014 10:16:48 AM] Reuben Stern: I'm free whenever, though tomorrow works better too
  11. [6/29/2014 10:17:00 AM] Sarah Hough: I can do anytime today after 12 and before 7, and anytime tomorrow before 5.
  12. [6/29/2014 11:10:36 AM] Dheekshu: .....sooo i can do anytime before noon
  13. [6/29/2014 11:11:04 AM] Dheekshu: and anytime after 9:30 pm
  14. [6/29/2014 11:11:12 AM] Dheekshu: (india times)
  15. [6/29/2014 2:05:49 PM] Ali Nagle: I can do today. Tomorrow I can only do after around 2.
  16. [6/29/2014 3:11:48 PM] Ali Nagle: Also, are people still interested in doing any of the other things we talked about?
  17. [6/29/2014 3:12:15 PM] Sarah Hough: Yeah...I personally think that there was just never a reddit thread so no discussion...
  18. [6/29/2014 3:13:50 PM] Ali Nagle: Yeah, I agree. I've been basically constantly on the reddit, I'm just having difficulty knowing what to post. I find I'm more productive when I'm discussing with other people, so I'm just taking my own notes to use when we Skype because I'm just having little bits of ideas that wouldn't really be helpful to the conversation.
  19. [6/29/2014 3:14:02 PM] Ali Nagle: I don't know if we'll have time to have four Skype calls, though.
  20. [6/29/2014 3:14:09 PM] Sarah Hough: yeah...
  21. [6/29/2014 3:14:20 PM] Sarah Hough: personally, i would do without the counterculture one
  22. [6/29/2014 3:14:26 PM] Sarah Hough: people didn't seem that interested
  23. [6/29/2014 3:16:30 PM] Ali Nagle: Yeah, I agree. I'm sort of torn. I like the idea of writing about teenagers and expectations and such, but there's the danger of it being cliche and it almost being too familiar.
  24. [6/29/2014 3:17:07 PM] Ali Nagle: And mental illness is really intriguing, but I worry that in the time span we have, we won't be able to truly learn enough to accurately and sensitively portray it.
  25. [6/29/2014 3:17:35 PM] Reuben Stern: I disagree. I think we have plenty of time, as long as we set deadlines
  26. [6/29/2014 3:18:05 PM] Ali Nagle: Well we already haven't been doing so swell with our deadlines.
  27. [6/29/2014 3:18:13 PM] Reuben Stern: True...
  28. [6/29/2014 3:18:28 PM] Reuben Stern: once the school year starts, I think it'll be easier to communicate and schedule
  29. [6/29/2014 3:18:45 PM] Ali Nagle: I was talking to Damian and we've been getting stuck in trying to figure out a plot
  30. [6/29/2014 3:18:51 PM] Ali Nagle: Because themes and such are easy
  31. [6/29/2014 3:18:54 PM] Ali Nagle: at least for us
  32. [6/29/2014 3:19:07 PM] Ali Nagle: but coming up with a story that isn't just explaining theme is the difficulty
  33. [6/29/2014 3:19:09 PM] Reuben Stern: Okay
  34. [6/29/2014 3:19:28 PM] Ali Nagle: and we were talking about how maybe it might be a good idea to have a Skype call where we actually just tell our own stories
  35. [6/29/2014 3:19:32 PM] Reuben Stern: Well we should just brainstorm possible conflicts, and see if we can work themes into them
  36. [6/29/2014 3:19:52 PM] Reuben Stern: No matter how simple, all meaningful stories are based around conflict
  37. [6/29/2014 3:20:20 PM] Sarah Hough: when you say "tell our own stories" do you mean our true personal ones or possible plots, ali?
  38. [6/29/2014 3:22:43 PM] Ali Nagle: True, personal ones. because we have to write from what we know, and we can't just come up with stories from nowhere. Not that we would write a musical based on one of our lives, but just as somewhere to start and so that we can understand each other a little more. I was thinking about this at the last meeting. Like there were a couple of times when I had experience in something we were talking about or I knew someone else did, but it didn't feel right to just give a personal monologue. But this process is naturally personal, so having a time where we can share will a) perhaps make us a little more comfortable around each other and establish a "safe space" (for lack of a better phrase) and b) perhaps inspire some concrete plot points.
  39. [6/29/2014 3:23:07 PM] Ali Nagle: Again, not that we're writing a musical that's just a medley of all our stories, but just as a starting place.
  40. [6/29/2014 3:23:34 PM] Sarah Hough: Actually, I really agree, that just feels more than a little awkward. The problem, I think, is that the stories I most want to tell are the most personal
  41. [6/29/2014 3:23:47 PM] Sarah Hough: I dunno.
  42. [6/29/2014 3:24:34 PM] Ali Nagle: Yeah, I understand. I don't mean that we have to sit down and all tell our deepest secret, but if we start with a theme that we've already discussed and talk about what it means to each of us
  43. [6/29/2014 3:24:54 PM] Ali Nagle: then we at least have some context.
  44. [6/29/2014 3:24:59 PM] Sarah Hough: Yeah, maybe. Or also if we spent some time talking in smaller groups
  45. [6/29/2014 3:25:25 PM] Ali Nagle: Yeah.
  46. [6/29/2014 3:25:29 PM] Reuben Stern: I do feel like a compelling story needs some sort of plot that stretches throughout it, maybe I'm old fashioned
  47. [6/29/2014 3:25:45 PM] Reuben Stern: I'd rather have a narrative musical than a presentation of smaller stories
  48. [6/29/2014 3:26:03 PM] Sarah Hough: I agree
  49. [6/29/2014 3:26:06 PM] Ali Nagle: Yeah, I agree. I meant it just as something we do
  50. [6/29/2014 3:26:13 PM] Ali Nagle: not as the format for the musical
  51. [6/29/2014 3:26:34 PM] Reuben Stern: Why don't we try and come up with extremely bare-bones plot ideas? As cliched as they may be, it could get some creativity flowing
  52. [6/29/2014 3:27:40 PM] Sarah Hough: Yeah, that might work. Idk. Gah.
  53. [6/29/2014 3:28:27 PM] Ali Nagle: I guess what I'm saying though, Reuben, is that just coming up with plots from nowhere has been difficult for me because I always just go back to what I know and what I've experienced.
  54. [6/29/2014 3:28:38 PM] Ali Nagle: I guess all of our processes are just different
  55. [6/29/2014 3:28:42 PM] Reuben Stern: That's perfectly acceptible
  56. [6/29/2014 3:28:53 PM] Reuben Stern: acceptable*
  57. [6/29/2014 3:29:33 PM] Ali Nagle: And so I suppose what I think would be helpful is if we're talking about plots we've come up with and things we've experienced relating to the theme together, we'll probable get farther
  58. [6/29/2014 3:29:40 PM] Ali Nagle: Because we'll have lots of different perspectives
  59. [6/29/2014 3:30:50 PM] Ali Nagle: I sort of feel like, at least for me, before I start writing someone else's story I need to know my own in the context of gender, mental illness, teenagers, etc… And since we're writing this together, it would be helpful to know everyone else's perspective too, rather than just the fictional story they've come up with.
  60. [6/29/2014 3:31:09 PM] Reuben Stern: Not sure I agree with that
  61. [6/29/2014 3:31:09 PM] Ali Nagle: And if not everyone wants to, like Sarah said, we could break up into smaller groups.
  62. [6/29/2014 3:31:39 PM] Reuben Stern: One thing I find exhilarating about writing is being able to take on a different persona, but to each his/her own
  63. [6/29/2014 3:33:53 PM] Ali Nagle: Oh I totally agree. But you're never going to ever be able to totally separate yourself from the project. Your feelings and experiences will inevitably influence what you're writing. If this were a solo project, it wouldn't really be necessary to do this because we all know our own perspectives. But since we're coming up with a plot together, I think that it makes a difference knowing what people feel and think about the topic itself.
  64. [6/29/2014 3:34:00 PM] Ali Nagle: Like if I came up with a plot
  65. [6/29/2014 3:34:18 PM] Ali Nagle: and someone thought it was unrealistic
  66. [6/29/2014 3:34:21 PM] Ali Nagle: and then I'm like
  67. [6/29/2014 3:34:27 PM] Ali Nagle: I have 5 friends that have all gone through this
  68. [6/29/2014 3:34:40 PM] Ali Nagle: it might make a difference and would incite a different discussion
  69. [6/29/2014 3:34:48 PM] Ali Nagle: than
  70. [6/29/2014 3:35:02 PM] Ali Nagle: "we don't think this could ever happen so let's move on"
  71. [6/29/2014 3:35:06 PM] Reuben Stern: Yeah of course
  72. [6/29/2014 3:35:26 PM] Sarah Hough: Ok, how about anyone who wants to talk about their own experiences posts here and then messages other interested parties?
  73. [6/29/2014 3:35:31 PM] Sarah Hough: I would like to...
  74. [6/29/2014 3:36:05 PM] Reuben Stern: Can I create a plot google doc?
  75. [6/29/2014 3:36:12 PM] Owen Gillespie: I can do anytime tomorrow.
  76. [6/29/2014 3:36:12 PM] Reuben Stern: Just for listing bullet points of plot?
  77. [6/29/2014 3:36:18 PM] Sarah Hough: ok...
  78. [6/29/2014 3:38:37 PM] Owen Gillespie: Sorry. Skype didn't show the recent stuff. Awk timing. :P
  79. [6/29/2014 3:39:52 PM] Reuben Stern: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1umdjzg1Uyb1j-Oq8N7_S8kycvLdWKxH4oVYxZ4u2mrk/edit
  80. [6/29/2014 3:42:35 PM] Reuben Stern: Owen, could you make me a mod of the subreddit?
  81. [6/29/2014 3:43:11 PM] Owen Gillespie: Sure. On my phone so not now but soon. What do you need?
  82. [6/29/2014 3:43:58 PM] Owen Gillespie: Also if people are interested I can ask my "family friend" who had been doing psychiatry for years and has a ton of really interesting and sad stories that we could base things on
  83. [6/29/2014 6:58:09 PM] Owen Gillespie: Sounds like the call is going to be tomorrow. Let's pick a time
  84. [6/29/2014 8:03:26 PM] Ali Nagle: 2?
  85. [6/29/2014 8:18:57 PM] Owen Gillespie: So Dheekshu needs to be before noon and you can only do circa 2. everyone else is flexibly afaik. I think joy can't do before noon since she said afternoon. I'll try to talk to Dheekshu tonight so that we can do tomorrow at two and I can relay some of her thoughts. Any objections?
  86. [6/29/2014 8:19:48 PM] Ali Nagle: Okay, great.
  87. [6/29/2014 8:20:00 PM] Ali Nagle: Damian will be at my house so he'll be there too.
  88. [6/29/2014 8:20:07 PM] Owen Gillespie: Ok ;)
  89. [6/29/2014 8:20:17 PM] Owen Gillespie: Has Janina posted when she is available?
  90. [6/29/2014 8:21:52 PM] Ali Nagle: She said on the doc that she isn't busy this week
  91. [6/29/2014 8:32:18 PM] Owen Gillespie: Ok. 2 sounds like a reasonable time for someone who isn't busy
  92. [6/29/2014 9:08:02 PM | Removed 9:08:24 PM] Ali Nagle: This message has been removed.
  93. [6/29/2014 9:08:12 PM | Removed 9:08:32 PM] Ali Nagle: This message has been removed.
  94. [6/29/2014 11:17:57 PM] joy.blanchard65: I might be getting my permit around 2:30 but I'll probably be home before and after that so I might drop in and out of the call. sorry I forgot that I was doing that (the fees go up after tomorrow :P )
  95. [6/29/2014 11:18:19 PM] Owen Gillespie: Good luck! Not that you'll need it
  96. [6/29/2014 11:40:09 PM] joy.blanchard65: Haha thanks!
  97. [9:44:42 AM] Dheekshu: r u guys having a call
  98. [9:44:42 AM] Dheekshu: right now?
  99. [9:46:51 AM] Dheekshu: oh nvm
  100. [9:56:43 AM] Dheekshu: so i'm just gonna rant a bit here....
  101. [9:57:13 AM] Dheekshu: so i dont know how you guys would feel about dyslexia, but i was thinking that maybe we could combine some of these themes
  102. [9:57:59 AM] Dheekshu: and i know this story that i thought may be of some use
  103. [9:59:50 AM] Dheekshu: so it goes like this: there is a boy who does really poorly in school and nobody knows why. People think he's being rude or something. He constantly fails exams and is held back twice. So, his parents think that to discipline him they should send him to a boarding school. They do.
  104. [10:03:55 AM] Dheekshu: At the boarding school, same thing happens, kid cant seem to do any right, so the kid gets depressed. A new substitute art teacher comes in and notices that the kid is a bit down (and he's the only perky teacher and he's just awesome) so he asks the teachers whats up
  105. [10:05:37 AM] Dheekshu: the teachers all think its just him being rude (saying things like "no matter how many times we correct him he never fixes his mistakes), so the art teacher asks to see his work and sees letters written backwards and stuff. He goes to the parents of the child and explains that the child has dyslexia
  106. [10:07:36 AM] Dheekshu: The parents are infuriated that their child isn't "normal" and there's a bunch of that drama and the man tries to explain that this isn't the end of the world and the parents aren't convinced. While visiting the parents the art teacher notices a beautiful painting and asks who was the artist. Turns out its the kid. Kid is a talented painter.
  107. [10:08:35 AM] Dheekshu: so the teacher starts to help the kid overcome his dyslexia (its revealed that the teacher also had dyslexia before) and tries to find ways to prove to the parents that their kid can DO something and BE someone
  108. [10:09:09 AM] Dheekshu: so the teacher suggests the kid sign up for an art competition (meanwhile the kid's grades are improving and everything)
  109. [10:09:29 AM] Dheekshu: the kid wins a prestegious award for which the parents realize how stupid they've been
  110. [10:09:36 AM] Dheekshu: yay. happy endings.
  111. [10:10:01 AM] Dheekshu: of course, we dont have to have a happy ending (i personally dont want one)
  112. [10:11:56 AM] Dheekshu: but i just thought that there were some ideas in the story that we could use, for example, I like the idea of a scene where the loved ones are struggling to accept that their relative has this illness or whatever and the idea of the patient person having to prove that they aren't worthless through some talent in art (idk why i really like the idea of art proving something)
  113. [10:12:28 AM] Dheekshu: Can someone take notes for the meeting and post it to the subreddit?
  114. [10:35:47 AM] Sarah Hough: Yeah, I will, assuming I stay for the whole meeting.
  115. [10:40:26 AM] Dheekshu: haha owen said he would too
  116. [10:44:05 AM] Dheekshu: continuing my ideas, i was thinking that maybe the plot could follow a broad outline that sorta went ... we dont know what it is, but its affecting them - someone realizes that something is wrong - loved ones face the whole "OMG. THEY'RE NOT NORMAL AND NOT CAPABLE OF ANYTHING. UGH. NO. WHY" - person undergoes under therapy or treatment (scenes of distress from loved ones) - ending (i dont really know...maybe they fail to prove their worth? or its too late?"
  117. [10:52:14 AM] Dheekshu: also....i'm not a big fan of the dyslexia thing
  118. [11:07:32 AM] Dheekshu: so i just had an idea of how we can go about the whole plot writing business
  119. [11:09:34 AM] Dheekshu: i just read through a summary of next to normal (cant stream in india sadly) and i'm realizing that every character has their own plot line that interweaves with the others, and this makes perfect sense as this is how our lives are. So i was thinking that maybe we can include all these themes but in different characters of the same world. The main character can maybe have a plot line that involves mental illness that affects the other plot lines, but there can be other stories for the other characters
  120. [11:11:01 AM] Dheekshu: i'd suggest that maybe during a meeting (not nessecarily this one), for at least a part of it, we talk about potential characters and stories for a certain kind of character. Create a person and follow their story till the end.
  121. [11:11:58 AM | Edited 11:12:09 AM] Dheekshu: sorry....i typed a lot cuz i have a lot of ideas but i cant be there for the meeting cuz i'd rather be sleeping at 3 AM india time :)
  122. [12:11:54 PM] Reuben Stern: I'm not a fan of the dyslexia thing either. I thought we'd focus more on the detriments mental illness has to relationships and family life, ya know, to make things more poignant
  123. [1:43:43 PM] Owen Gillespie: A reminder to everyone that the call will start at 2 sharp. Try to be there on time. There will be notes of the meeting posted on the subreddit.
  124. [1:44:35 PM] Owen Gillespie: If you have non mental health focused ideas you want to discuss, please wait until the end or until it makes sense to since this is officially the mental health plot discussion :D
  125. [1:54:34 PM] Ali Nagle: Damian and I just got home and we have to make lunch so we'll be there in about 20 minutes.
  126. [1:54:59 PM] Owen Gillespie: Ok. Have a nice lunch.
  127. [2:01:12 PM] Sarah Hough: Ok, y'all ready?
  128. [2:01:28 PM] Owen Gillespie: Yup
  129. [2:01:34 PM] *** Group call, duration 01:14 ***
  130. [2:03:18 PM] Owen Gillespie: So that was a good call
  131. [2:03:19 PM] Sarah Hough: Ok....so, anyone here except owen and I?
  132. [2:08:28 PM] Sarah Hough: Well, I'm just going to start the conversation. Ali and I (let me k if I'm misrepresenting this, Ali) were thinking that it could be a lot more interesting if the mental illness wasn't discussed in terms of the health care system (meds, psychiatrist, etc) but if various characters showed signs of mental illnesses but were afraid to discuss it/get help because of the stigma. We both really feel that the musical should be a place for us to discuss topics that we as people all care about, so it would be good to pick something that we're familiar with or at least we can express our own opinions/feelings. Ie, it might not be good to pick something like Alzheimers. I can't really speak for what other people have had experiences with (what illnesses, what situations) so insofar as people are comfortable I was thinking maybe we could all share what we feel personally strong about etc.
  133. [2:10:49 PM] Owen Gillespie: I get what you're saying, but I think that there is a lot to talk about with the inability of the medical system to deal with these issues the way people want it to. How many kids are sent out of the class because of ADHD or dyslexia.
  134. [2:12:35 PM] Sarah Hough: If people are passionate about ADHD and dyslexia, ok, maybe that's something we can work with, but I feel like there's already been so much done criticizing the medical treatment of mental illnesses
  135. [2:12:59 PM] Owen Gillespie: 2 things.
  136. [2:13:14 PM] Sarah Hough: I don't think there's been enough about how it can be so hard to tell the world about having one or maybe having one in the first place
  137. [2:13:49 PM] Sarah Hough: I think there are a fair amount of people who struggle with various mental illnesses, but they hide it
  138. [2:14:03 PM] Owen Gillespie: 1. Just because I haven't felt these things I still think it's more interesting to explore how people react and interact to a very serious issue like schizophrenia. I think it's less personal but has more substance to explore.
  139. [2:15:13 PM] Owen Gillespie: 2. I don't feel totally comfortable having us write a musical about our own mental issues and putting it on in front of the school because I know I wouldn't and I bet other people wouldn't be able to be as honest as I would like to be with such an important topic
  140. [2:18:14 PM] Sarah Hough: I'm not saying that we say, here's my experience, let's create a character exactly like my experience and then say, hey mom, look at this character. I mean that we can all contribute different experiences that we or friends or whoever we're close to have had. I understand if people aren't comfortable doing that, and we won't do it if so, but I think it's important to acknowledge that we're all going through various crap and doing a collaborative project allows for more anonymity in the end result. And I think it's important to acknowledge that talking about some of these things is important
  141. [2:25:26 PM] Sarah Hough: Let us know when you get here, damian and ali
  142. [2:30:26 PM] Ali Nagle: hey
  143. [2:30:41 PM] Sarah Hough: Hi
  144. [2:30:44 PM] Ali Nagle: we're here
  145. [2:30:55 PM] Ali Nagle: how do we join?
  146. [2:31:10 PM] Sarah Hough: One moment
  147. [2:32:45 PM] *** Group call ***
  148. [2:42:29 PM] Sarah Hough: are you guys having bad quality?
  149. [2:42:36 PM] Sarah Hough: can't hear anything...
  150. [2:43:26 PM] Sarah Hough: guys?
  151. [2:43:35 PM] Owen Gillespie: Hello?
  152. [2:45:50 PM] Ali Nagle: I think mental illness is a good topic choice from a plot standpoint because it provides a really easy central conflict obviously but it's also not cliché.
  153. [2:46:20 PM] Sarah Hough: AHHHH
  154. [2:46:37 PM] Owen Gillespie: Gaaah
  155. [2:49:13 PM] Ali Nagle: can you still hear me?
  156. [2:49:30 PM] *** Call ended, duration 16:37 ***
  157. [2:49:34 PM] Sarah Hough: Can we just type?
  158. [2:49:34 PM] Sarah Hough: Sorry
  159. [2:49:42 PM] Ali Nagle: Yeah
  160. [2:49:44 PM] Sarah Hough: Even then it was hard to hear you
  161. [2:49:49 PM] Sarah Hough: continue, ali?
  162. [2:49:51 PM] Ali Nagle: Sorry, it's my house's internet
  163. [2:50:11 PM] Owen Gillespie: No prob. What were you saying?
  164. [2:51:19 PM] Owen Gillespie: ?
  165. [2:51:32 PM] Ali Nagle: Basically I think that even though we all have varying degrees of experience with mental illness, unless one of us ourselves has a mental illness or an immediate family member and they're willing to talk about it a lot, I feel a little lost in how to write about it
  166. [2:52:05 PM] Ali Nagle: Because we naturally write from experience and I guess it feels a little artificial to me to try to imagine what it would be like
  167. [2:52:30 PM] Ali Nagle: and it wouldn't end up being that successful because it would be even harder to look at it from a lot of different angles
  168. [2:53:38 PM] cometofshadow: hey
  169. [2:53:40 PM] Owen Gillespie: That makes sense but I don't feel that we need to limit ourselves to only things we have felt. I think that through reading and learning and talking to people you can put your own spin on it that has Meaning without having felt it.
  170. [2:55:27 PM] Ali Nagle: I sort of disagree. We could definitely write something, but it would always sort of feel like I'm just trying to imagine what it would feel like. And everyone has such different experiences with it, that I fear the less we know about a topic, the more clichè
  171. [2:55:32 PM] cometofshadow: I think the character has to feel like a real person, and I at least do not feel like I'm really capable of portraying a character with mental illness. Do you guys?
  172. [2:55:41 PM] Ali Nagle: oops i did the thingy the wrong way
  173. [2:55:43 PM] cometofshadow: cliché
  174. [2:57:15 PM] Owen Gillespie: I'm a terrible actor, but it seems like something that would be tough but doable. I think a good actor should be trying to understand the characters mindset for everyone they play even though they only know their own
  175. [2:57:35 PM] Ali Nagle: Oh I think we definitely have the ability to act the character
  176. [2:57:37 PM] Owen Gillespie: I don't want to just always disagree though. What sort of mental health plot do you guys want?
  177. [2:57:48 PM] Ali Nagle: I personally just don't think I could write the character.
  178. [2:58:19 PM] Sarah Hough: Well I have depression, but I can't say "this is how a person with a mental illness feels"
  179. [2:58:19 PM] Sarah Hough: I think...I'm really torn. I think there are people who could write the character
  180. [2:58:42 PM] Sarah Hough: And I think we should be careful to not be overly like "this person with a mental illness is entirely foreign"
  181. [2:58:57 PM] cometofshadow: The character needs to be a person as well as represent the illness.
  182. [2:59:13 PM] Owen Gillespie: That's the beauty of it though. Often they are "normal" but confronting a different reality than everyone else.
  183. [2:59:20 PM] Sarah Hough: Like I get what y'all are saying, but, still people
  184. [2:59:21 PM] Sarah Hough: Yeah
  185. [2:59:43 PM] joy.blanchard65: Could we start with our own issues, mental illness related or not, and then try to view that through the lens of mental illness?
  186. [2:59:51 PM] cometofshadow: hi joy
  187. [2:59:57 PM] joy.blanchard65: Oh hi
  188. [3:00:02 PM] joy.blanchard65: I'm here for a little
  189. [3:00:21 PM] Ali Nagle: Yeah, I love the idea. I guess what I'm saying is I just don't think I can do it. If everyone else is really passionate, that's great and I'll help in a different sort of way, with structure or management or whatever
  190. [3:00:33 PM] Sarah Hough: Hi joy
  191. [3:00:44 PM] Sarah Hough: Just discussing feasibility of doing mental illnesses
  192. [3:01:10 PM] Sarah Hough: The our own issues thing is something ali and I were discussing, joy
  193. [3:01:29 PM] Sarah Hough: Care to elaborate?
  194. [3:01:39 PM] Ali Nagle: I think I just can't write about a character with a mental illness, unless it's something that's a little bit more familiar to me.
  195. [3:01:43 PM] Ali Nagle: Hi Joy :)
  196. [3:01:55 PM] cometofshadow: Owen, or anyone else, would you want to try just writing a rough scene so that we can sort of see what the character might look like? I sort of feel like we don't know what we're talking about about whether we can write something or not until we actually write it and see if it's good.
  197. [3:03:36 PM] Owen Gillespie: Ok. I'm not particularly good at writing but I could definitely outline a potential character and how they might act
  198. [3:03:51 PM] Sarah Hough: If we did someone who's bipolar that could be interesting, because there are both manic and depressive parts, so sometimes that makes someone feel like the depressive parts aren't legitimate
  199. [3:04:03 PM] joy.blanchard65: Haha :) I think it would make it a lot easier to write about mental illness if you can stop it from being all about the mental illness and make it something that you can relate to, like you said, Ali, that you want to write about. We could still have that unique way of seeing the world which would be a great lesson in compassion and empathy as well as self-realization, but we could also make it as personal as we wanted. Idk
  200. [3:04:11 PM] joy.blanchard65: Sorry that took a while to type
  201. [3:04:26 PM] joy.blanchard65: Gtg
  202. [3:04:34 PM] Owen Gillespie: Good Iuck
  203. [3:04:46 PM] Sarah Hough: And you may be having hallucinations with bipolar but not that extreme necessarily so its like----am I crazy? What's going on? And then you convince yourself it was nothing
  204. [3:05:28 PM] Sarah Hough: does that make sense, ali?
  205. [3:05:31 PM] Owen Gillespie: I think that picking a nebulous diagnosis so the symptoms can be whatever we want would be good too
  206. [3:05:52 PM] Sarah Hough: Yeah. I am def interested in the difficulties of figuring out for yourself that you're sick
  207. [3:06:08 PM] Sarah Hough: Am I just sad? What's wrong with me? Will I get sent to a psych ward?
  208. [3:07:05 PM] Ali Nagle: Yeah I guess I want more to discuss the themes and questions that are being raised now rather than actually having someone with a pretty severe case
  209. [3:07:13 PM] Ali Nagle: If that makes any sense
  210. [3:07:43 PM] Owen Gillespie: I think that going through a progression from very mild symptoms to serious stuff might give they chance.
  211. [3:08:43 PM] Sarah Hough: There's also more than 1 character
  212. [3:09:01 PM] Ali Nagle: I don't know. To be totally honest, I would really love to write a musical about mental illness. But I would want to do years and years of research and interviews and such before I started
  213. [3:09:07 PM] Ali Nagle: and I don't think we have that time
  214. [3:09:27 PM] Ali Nagle: and unless we do that, I would feel like we're being slightly disrespectful, or that we're uninformed.
  215. [3:09:45 PM] Sarah Hough: Like, it might be interesting if one character was really sick (like the teacher with the psychotic breakdown) and as the students started to realize what was going on maybe one of them had suspicions that they were sick but it was way less serious so they didn't see it as legitimate
  216. [3:09:48 PM] Sarah Hough: Sorry bad timing
  217. [3:10:39 PM] Ali Nagle: I like the idea of the teacher because we aren't seeing it through the teacher's eyes, but rather the students'
  218. [3:10:41 PM] Owen Gillespie: I think you need to at least try. I find that working through issues is almost always better than spending years researching. This doesn't need to be about a real person or disease. It should be about out views on various issues.
  219. [3:11:01 PM] Sarah Hough: What do you think, damian?
  220. [3:11:18 PM] cometofshadow: I think that if we just try to write about themes then our characters won't be convincing.
  221. [3:11:33 PM] Sarah Hough: And, Ali, I used to have totally the same view, but I think that this is a really cool chance
  222. [3:11:42 PM] Sarah Hough: And if we have something we're dedicated to we can learn a lot
  223. [3:12:04 PM] Sarah Hough: And I think that we could all learn a lot and be surprised and grow by having conversations about these issues
  224. [3:12:48 PM] Owen Gillespie: Writing to fit themes would probably come off bad, but thinking about which themes could naturally fit into the general idea could strengthen the characters.
  225. [3:13:21 PM] Sarah Hough: I think we should try the mental illness thing and we can always stop or change it if we're being insensitive
  226. [3:13:30 PM] Sarah Hough: But I don't think we should abandon it
  227. [3:13:48 PM] Sarah Hough: And also, remember, we can have mental illness be a part, but there will be tons of characters!
  228. [3:14:21 PM] cometofshadow: Yeah, I think we can weave multiple issues into one story.
  229. [3:14:33 PM] Owen Gillespie: It actually has to be because the audience isn't going to see what the ill person sees. We need other people to help show what is really happening.
  230. [3:17:24 PM] Ali Nagle: I think I'm slightly confused about what we mean by mental illness. It sort of feels like the way Owen is talking about it is about someone with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder and the play is about their struggle, whereas Sarah is sort of talking about it as people questioning their place and happiness and whether there is something wrong with them, more what the two of us were talking about yesterday
  231. [3:17:42 PM] Ali Nagle: Because I'm very drawn to the second.
  232. [3:18:34 PM] Ali Nagle: I think discussing the question of normality and the intricacies of certain disorders that people generalize is very interesting and we're more able to take that on.
  233. [3:20:06 PM] Owen Gillespie: I don't think the two need to preclude each other and although I don't want the play to be an amalgamation of psychotic breakdowns I think that just feeling out of place and questioning normalcy doesn't provide enough plot. It feels like it's just themes
  234. [3:21:03 PM] Sarah Hough: What do you guys feel about the teacher thing?
  235. [3:21:32 PM] Sarah Hough: Like, having the teacher have a serious illness but then others have other life problems or maybe other mental illnesses
  236. [3:21:38 PM] Sarah Hough: So we could do both, Ali
  237. [3:21:47 PM] Owen Gillespie: Which I think can be woven into a story that has an illness which at some points Is very serious.
  238. [3:22:18 PM] Owen Gillespie: I like the idea of it happening to someone who is respected by many. I think that a principal having a slow breakdown would be incredibly interesting to write about and provide lots of room for other character and themes.
  239. [3:22:44 PM] Ali Nagle: I like the idea of the teacher, but I almost like it as something that happens offstage
  240. [3:22:53 PM] Ali Nagle: And then using that as a catalyst for the kids
  241. [3:23:36 PM] Ali Nagle: I think I'm having a lot of difficulty saying what I actually mean right now.
  242. [3:23:41 PM] Ali Nagle: Damian and I have to go pretty soon
  243. [3:23:42 PM] Sarah Hough: No, I think I get it
  244. [3:23:44 PM] Sarah Hough: Ok.
  245. [3:24:02 PM] Sarah Hough: But would we all be willing to do the teacher thing?
  246. [3:24:06 PM] Ali Nagle: So, is this definitely the direction we're taking it, or should we discuss some of the other topics?
  247. [3:24:13 PM] Sarah Hough: I mean
  248. [3:24:24 PM] Sarah Hough: I hate to be this rushed, but...
  249. [3:24:34 PM] cometofshadow: I would really like to not abandon the other topics.
  250. [3:24:39 PM] Sarah Hough: Ok
  251. [3:24:42 PM] Sarah Hough: Throw them out there then
  252. [3:26:10 PM] Owen Gillespie: I wish that the other groups had gotten more organized after the meeting. The whole point was having small groups of people discussing the different ideas.
  253. [3:26:17 PM] Sarah Hough: Yeah
  254. [3:26:21 PM] Sarah Hough: but all we can do is talk now
  255. [3:26:33 PM] Sarah Hough: i k you guys have to go, but could you throw anything out there?
  256. [3:27:29 PM] Ali Nagle: I think that the other topics, gender, teenager culture/restrictions, counterculture and such are all things that can kind of be absorbed into one thing
  257. [3:27:54 PM] Sarah Hough: Yeah
  258. [3:27:56 PM] Owen Gillespie: Like what?
  259. [3:28:01 PM] Ali Nagle: And the thing Sarah and I were talking about yesterday about taboos
  260. [3:28:06 PM] cometofshadow: Well they're all part of life as a teenager.
  261. [3:28:14 PM] Ali Nagle: that's honestly what's most intriguing to me.
  262. [3:30:03 PM] Ali Nagle: I think, though, that we shouldn't write something where there are a bunch of teenagers talking about themselves and we hear a lot of compelling stories that address these issues
  263. [3:30:55 PM] Owen Gillespie: What's the plot? I'm worried people are so focused on their own stories that we get this giant jumbled mess of people's ideas.
  264. [3:31:35 PM] Sarah Hough: super reductionist, but i was thinking if we did the teacher thing we could have people start to realize the problem with keeping everything inside
  265. [3:31:49 PM] Sarah Hough: so they could start talking to each other aobut their problems, various conflicts, etc
  266. [3:32:40 PM] cometofshadow: Something that interests me and covers a few of these topics is the sort of culture that springs up around teenage depression. Like how everyone has a Tumblr, and a lot of people write poetry, and how it's sort of a community where people both help each other with their issues and encourage each other to dramatize them. Relatedly, the community around eating disorders, like ana/mia forums where people post diets and strategies to lose weight. That's both mental illness and counterculture.
  267. [3:33:22 PM] Ali Nagle: I'm just really worried that nothing is going to happen. Okay, so like in Spelling Bee, the most powerful thing for me was that it was pretty upbeat and there was a lot of action and it seemed like a younger show, but then they'd drop in really heavy themes and they were more powerful
  268. [3:34:10 PM] Ali Nagle: And so unless we decide definitely that we want to write about mental illness in an extreme way, someone has to sort of get inspired about a story
  269. [3:34:19 PM] Ali Nagle: I think that quilting a plot together will not work
  270. [3:34:45 PM] Ali Nagle: I don't think everyone can decide the plot together. Sorry, I know it seems like I'm contradicting myself a lot
  271. [3:35:51 PM] Owen Gillespie: I think we need to pick a general theme, and a few people to write out a plot.
  272. [3:35:54 PM] Owen Gillespie: 3 at most.
  273. [3:36:32 PM] Owen Gillespie: I also think people need to take this more seriously. Very few people even tried starting a discussion or a skype call
  274. [3:38:13 PM] Ali Nagle: I think that we can't start with the theme though. I think when we look at the bare plot, we shouldn't be able to tell what the major themes are
  275. [3:38:14 PM] cometofshadow: What Bill said at the beginning of our drama class this year was that we needed to find out about a lot of stories, fictional or real, and create a piece around one of them. In that vein, I think it's important that there's something happening in our musical plotwise. Something that makes that day different from all the other days. Like the spelling bee, or discovering a bat child in a cave, or that there's been a shipwreck that's dumped two twins in town in different places, or that four lovers are breaking out of their houses to run away into the woods, to give the examples of all the shows I've been in at BUA. I think we can't just pick a theme and say "Let's write a story around this theme." I think we need to find a story and weave the themes into the writing. Because I think themes come up more in dialogue and in character than in plot. And the plot is what we need first before we can start writing.
  276. [3:38:41 PM] Ali Nagle: Yeah.
  277. [3:38:51 PM] Ali Nagle: Exactly.
  278. [3:39:27 PM] Ali Nagle: Okay so I just read this actors handbook that Bill gave me
  279. [3:39:48 PM] Ali Nagle: and one of the things it talked about a lot was the immediate action and the essential action
  280. [3:40:35 PM] Ali Nagle: how your immediate action might be "Drink slowly from a cup while staring at the person across from you"
  281. [3:40:39 PM] Ali Nagle: and the essential action is
  282. [3:41:16 PM] Ali Nagle: "try to intimidate the person at dinner so they will do what you want them to do"
  283. [3:41:27 PM] Ali Nagle: And I feel like we're doing a lot of essential action
  284. [3:41:29 PM] Ali Nagle: we're saying
  285. [3:41:42 PM] Ali Nagle: this is what I'm trying to accomplish with this piece
  286. [3:41:49 PM] Ali Nagle: these are the underlying motivations
  287. [3:42:01 PM] Ali Nagle: and so we're starting at the place of
  288. [3:42:08 PM] Ali Nagle: "try to intimidate the person"
  289. [3:42:29 PM] Ali Nagle: and then trying to go backward and figure out what the immediate action of that is
  290. [3:42:38 PM] Ali Nagle: and right now we're coming up with a lot of things like
  291. [3:42:56 PM] Ali Nagle: "You need to do what I say! I'm intimidating you! Rawr!"
  292. [3:43:33 PM] Ali Nagle: I think we really need to go back and figure out an immediate action that is interesting.
  293. [3:43:40 PM] Ali Nagle: I hope that all made some sense.
  294. [3:43:43 PM] cometofshadow: Like, when you read a book in English, when you're done you know everything that happened in the plot. That's the first level. Then you read more closely and find all the themes. But the themes aren't the primary driving force of the show. They're like the second level, the one that gives the show deeper meaning.
  295. [3:44:23 PM] cometofshadow: I agree with what Ali's saying that starting with themes is what's causing us to write clichés.
  296. [3:44:52 PM] Owen Gillespie: But I think you need to understand which themes you are generally interested in and then write something and see what fits.
  297. [3:45:31 PM] Owen Gillespie: I just don think 5 or 7 or 10 people can write a plot. I think we need to pick something interesting to most people and then trust the writers.
  298. [3:46:02 PM] Ali Nagle: Yeah but I don't think that you really should write a plot including your themes in the plot. Write it with them in mind, yes, but not as a function.
  299. [3:46:12 PM] Ali Nagle: I don't know if that made any sense
  300. [3:46:18 PM] Sarah Hough: It did
  301. [3:46:29 PM] Ali Nagle: I agree with what you're saying about trusting the writers.
  302. [3:46:33 PM] Sarah Hough: (sorry for not adding anything earlier, feeling pretty bad)
  303. [3:46:38 PM] Sarah Hough: So what's the plan?
  304. [3:46:55 PM] cometofshadow: Read stories. Get inspired. Propose stories.
  305. [3:46:59 PM] Sarah Hough: Can we say, something with mental illness but also other stuff, trust the writers?
  306. [3:47:06 PM] Owen Gillespie: I think that's the best course
  307. [3:47:21 PM] Owen Gillespie: Pick a topic and people to write it and see how it goes.
  308. [3:47:31 PM] Ali Nagle: I think that we should make a list of five themes that are really important to us, pick three people to go away and look at stories
  309. [3:47:43 PM] Ali Nagle: And then come back in two days with a couple ideas of the premise of our story.
  310. [3:47:55 PM] Sarah Hough: Sorry, stupid quesiton:
  311. [3:48:01 PM] Sarah Hough: is mental illness a theme?
  312. [3:48:29 PM] Owen Gillespie: I think it's more if a overarching topic
  313. [3:48:46 PM] Owen Gillespie: I also 2 days might be too little.
  314. [3:48:55 PM] Ali Nagle: I think it should be translated into a theme. Maybe that's what I've been trying to say all along. Like, I like the idea of including it as a theme, rather than a plot device
  315. [3:49:19 PM] Sarah Hough: how would that work?
  316. [3:49:46 PM] Owen Gillespie: I totally disagree
  317. [3:49:58 PM] Owen Gillespie: Explain first though.
  318. [3:51:12 PM] Ali Nagle: Okay so instead of literally having someone who has a mental illness and that mental illness acting as an essential part of our plot
  319. [3:51:25 PM] Ali Nagle: have dialogue and plot choices and such
  320. [3:51:33 PM] Ali Nagle: have the underlying discussion of the play
  321. [3:51:37 PM] Ali Nagle: be
  322. [3:51:50 PM] Ali Nagle: "is anyone sane?" "am I sane?"
  323. [3:51:54 PM] Ali Nagle: or whatever we want it to be
  324. [3:52:03 PM] Ali Nagle: I'm not saying never talk about mental illness
  325. [3:52:13 PM] Ali Nagle: or not have any characters that have a mental illness
  326. [3:52:26 PM] Ali Nagle: but I think it would be a lot cleaner and more compelling if it isn't
  327. [3:52:35 PM] Ali Nagle: the play that's about people with mental illnesses
  328. [3:52:39 PM] Sarah Hough: I have to say that mental illness is not just like, metaphorical. Sorry, I don't want to be too defensive. But it is a problem that can't just be a plot device
  329. [3:53:10 PM] Owen Gillespie: I'm fine with writing that as A PLOT but I want to consider plot based on someone actually struggling with it and I know a few other people do too
  330. [3:55:00 PM] Ali Nagle: I agree. I don't mean like use it as a metaphor. Okay so in Next to Normal, for instance, that it ABOUT a woman with a mental illness. And some of the themes that are raised are regarding mental health. But walking away, I'm left more questioning things like normalcy and family and suburbia and such
  331. [3:55:40 PM] Ali Nagle: And I would prefer to do it in the opposite way as Next to Normal, if that makes sense.
  332. [3:55:55 PM] Ali Nagle: But yes, we should consider it both ways
  333. [3:56:19 PM] Owen Gillespie: I think you need to pick a plot for the anti next to normal though. Right now it seems like it's just themes.
  334. [3:56:29 PM] Owen Gillespie: Not like a detailed plot just an idea of what happens.
  335. [3:58:35 PM] Owen Gillespie: Also who does the writing?
  336. [3:59:22 PM] Ali Nagle: Okay. Damian and I have to go. I'm sorry if I seemed contrarian the whole time. I really am willing to do whatever people decide. I'm just voicing the concerns I have at this point so that hopefully we won't run into those problems later.
  337. [3:59:41 PM] Ali Nagle: I'll do whatever is needed. Writing or editing or whatever.
  338. [4:00:14 PM] Owen Gillespie: Ok. Have fun. Wish more people showed up
  339. [5:58:36 PM] Reuben Stern: Hi guys, I'm sorry I couldn't make it (friends were over). Was there any decision made?
  340. [5:58:48 PM] Owen Gillespie: read the chat
  341. [5:58:54 PM] Owen Gillespie: thats what happned
  342. [5:59:01 PM] Reuben Stern: There was no actual call?
  343. [5:59:18 PM | Edited 5:59:50 PM] Owen Gillespie: no one but sarah ali and damian and I showed up besides joy for 5 min and ali's internet was breaking up
  344. [5:59:32 PM] Reuben Stern: Oh okay
  345. [5:59:36 PM] Reuben Stern: *damiAn
  346. [5:59:52 PM] Owen Gillespie: ?
  347. [6:00:08 PM] Reuben Stern: thanks for editing that, pal
  348. [6:00:10 PM] Reuben Stern: ;P
  349. [6:00:25 PM] Owen Gillespie: ??
  350. [6:00:34 PM] Owen Gillespie: basically if you have an actual plot idea write it up
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