<Adradis> Honestly? I don't blame him for doing something like that. Might not have been the greatest idea, but I'll be damned if that isn't a satisfying way to say "Hey, stop that."
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<IceWolf> A faster way to say "Hey, stop that." which doesn't involve hurting players is to just say it
<Adradis> he has
<Adradis> or he did
<Adradis> as far as I knew
<IceWolf> We were never asked
<Adradis> Either way. Not gonna get into that whole mess.
<Adradis> Attacking the players: not so good. From an outside perspective? Entertaining.
<Sengir> IceWolf, yes, as if Technic cared.
<IceWolf> I think I would remember you ever talking with me
<Sengir> Kakermix knew from my donation refusal and my public comments I wanted forestry out.
<Sengir> he didn't care and said so much on the technic forums.
<Sengir> why would I talk to you?
<IceWolf> Because I'm the one who put it in
<IceWolf> and I'm the one who took it out
<Sengir> how would I know?
<IceWolf> By asking
<Sengir> and why didn't you then... you know... take it out?
<IceWolf> I did
<Sengir> the fuck you did!
<Sengir> where, when?
<Sengir> please point me to where you did?
<IceWolf> When you added your DRM bees
<IceWolf> There was no direct contact or actual request to be removed.
<Sengir> and where was the direct contact or actual request to be allowed to be added?
<IceWolf> When I was informed that your mod was harming players worlds I removed it, and it was only then that your desire to not be in the pack was made apparent to me.
<Adradis> CovertJaguar, sorry about triggering this S:
<Sengir> so... you mean when I sent that $50 donation back to kaker, he assumed I was cool about the inclusion?
<IceWolf> Like I said
<CovertJaguar> I like how you make it out that the burden was on Sengir to contact you and not the other way around
<IceWolf> That is between you two
<Sengir> sure, "the other one did it!". nice one.
<IceWolf> It was something publicly distributed for free.  All we were doing was putting them in a nice package to allow certain players to more easily enjoy it.
<Sengir> almost as nice as "sengir destroyed worlds".
<IceWolf> And you of all people know how it is not hard to have the situation changed CovertJaguar
<IceWolf> You opened a dialogue, we discussed it, and per your request it was removed.  Simple as that.
<CovertJaguar> you really expect me to believe it would have been as easy if Sengir hadn't demonstrated the wrath of an angry mod dev first?
<IceWolf> This doesn't need to be some big weird us vs. them thing.  At the end of the day we're all here because we enjoy minecraft, enjoy modding, and want people to experience how great modded minecraft can be.
<IceWolf> Actually yes I do
<IceWolf> Because you were not the first to ask to be removed
<Sengir> yes, that is interesting, isn't it. before forestry Technic was all "who cares about permissions?" and after, suddenly "we are trying to clean up our act".
<IceWolf> We have stated on many occasions that we feel the drama around the permissions of distributing free content is silly to us, it doesn't mean we're actively trying to upset you.
<CovertJaguar> apparently you need a big button somewhere that says "click here to have your mod removed!" so that the right people get the message then
<Sengir> pity you deleted your old forums along with the posts there. I know there were a few posts by kaker with a few choice words regarding permissions.
<IceWolf> Not really, we've only ever had issues with the two of you and Flower Child
<IceWolf> Again Sengir, whatever is between you two is just that.
<Sengir> not to mention kaker actively helping this Plus+ guy on the SA forums with DMCA take-down notices.
<Trunks9809> And IC2... And Greg...
<Sengir> so... you are saying Kaker is not part of your team? never was? wasn't at the time forestry was included?
<CovertJaguar> Kaker was the public face of Technic for ages, nothing is just between him and anyone, everything he did represents Technic
<IceWolf> When we first started we were just collecting a few freely distributed mods and packaging them together to let people more easily enjoy them. After a period of time I started spending more time talking directly with the modders we include in our packs and haven't had any issues sense.
<IceWolf> Kaker was absolutely a part of the team, he runs our sites and servers
<Sengir> "... haven't had any issues sense." <- exactly. stupid of kaker to burn all the other bridges before.
<IceWolf> I'm just saying that because you and someone else got into an argument, it doesn't mean it has any bearings on me.
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<IceWolf> So if someone did something to upset you, and then they changed what they were doing, that makes them bad people?
<Sengir> if they then falsely claim I "destroyed people's worlds", "but we nicely asked permission" afterwards, it just confirms my previous impression of them.
<Trunks9809> Actually, when that person is acting in an official capacity and having the argument in an official capacity, it kinda does affect every else thats party of the entity being represented...
<IceWolf> Trunks9809: Alblaka gave us permission to include IC2 without us asking, making it the first mod we ever even had permission for.  Gregtech has never been included in any of our packs and whatever issues he may have with us are all on him.
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<Sengir> so... let me get this right: I am supposed to somehow divine, when kaker is not "acting in an official capcacity". sure...
<IceWolf> Sorry Sengir, I don't think that last one came across how you meant it.  I didn't quite get it.
<CovertJaguar> I seem to recall a rather angry blog post from Ablaka when he discovered you were distributing IC2
<IceWolf> When we spoke directly with him there was no anger.
<Trunks9809> And a certain in-game notice alerting people to the fact that they were running an illegal modpack
<IceWolf> Trunks9809: I'm not sure what you're talking about
<CovertJaguar> that came later and is not related to this discusion
<IceWolf> Ah, alright
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<IceWolf> My point is, just because you've had a history of issues with a particular person, it doesn't mean you need to damn an entire community.  As the pack creator any issues you have with the inclusion of your mod should be directed at me, and while I'm sorry I offended you however long ago it was now, there's nothing to be done to change it.
<IceWolf> I've been nothing but civil, patient, and even do what I can to donate to you because I enjoy what you do, and want others to do the same.
<IceWolf> and while I'm sorry that you still harbor such strong feelings towards me and those I work with over the issues, the world will move on, we'll keep playing minecraft, and nothing really changes.
<CovertJaguar> I'll be honest, I never even know you existed until about 6 months ago IceWolf, Technic was Kaker, Kaker was Technic, and he even said as much
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<CovertJaguar> at most you were a name on credit list buried on your website, while Kaker was out in the public eye insulting devs and burning bridges
<IceWolf> That's because this had nothing to do with my ego or whatever else it gets chalked up to.  Kaker is a loud person and loud people get heard.  Technic started as a three man team, and while I built packs and Cheap Shot drew art, we didn't care about all this childish drama that was stiring up in the community.
<IceWolf> It would be like when Slowpoke got high on sleeping pills and started insulting people on our forums.  Just because he did that doesn't mean I automatically assume the worst of the rest of the FTB community (quite the opposite in fact)
<CovertJaguar> you should have cared, things would be easier for you now
<CovertJaguar> Slow's "outburst" was nothing compared to things I saw Kaker saying
<IceWolf> Things aren't hard for me now, as I said I'm sorry that you guys are still upset about previous grieviences, but as long as people are playing the game and having fun that's all I care about
<CovertJaguar> and he appolgized afterwards
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<Sengir> I am basing my opinion of technic on the visible actions by the "technic team" - whoever that is. if you let kaker let the show to the outside you shouldn't be surprised if you are held/judged by his actions.
<Sengir> *you let kaker run the
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<IceWolf> I'm not the internet police, Kaker or whoever is more than welcome to do or say whatever they want.
<CovertJaguar> "You are judged by the people you associate with" is and always will be true, not to mention good sense
<Sengir> and the inclusion without permission seems to on your head after all, so don't put it all on kaker. ,)
<IceWolf> I already told you, I take full responsibility for including your mod without permission.
<IceWolf> At this point we're just talking in circles and I don't care to take up more of your guys' time.  As always if you ever need anything feel free to contact me and I hope you have a good evening.