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Cyrodiilic warpspace bullshit

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Mar 3rd, 2016
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  1. [11:57:24] <Sefiriot> Zini, I've been thinking about Cyrodiil and its size
  2. [11:57:36] <Sefiriot> PGE1 has it as the biggest of the provinces
  3. [11:57:52] <Zinitrad> well yeah
  4. [11:58:01] <Zinitrad> it still is
  5. [11:58:05] <Zinitrad> what about it?
  6. [11:58:09] <Sefiriot> and yet in game we only have like half a dozen main roads? does not compute
  7. [11:58:30] <Zinitrad> uh yeah the same way that imperial city being only 200 people does not compute
  8. [11:58:43] <Zinitrad> more likely that the roads in oblivion are just the 'main highway' types of roads
  9. [11:58:59] <Zinitrad> like the huge always traveled ones where at any moment there are tons of people upon it
  10. [11:59:03] <Sefiriot> yeah
  11. [11:59:07] <Sefiriot> here's the other thing I was thinking
  12. [11:59:11] <Zinitrad> and then there's the hundreds of unfeatured roads off of that
  13. [11:59:19] <Sefiriot> what if those highways aren't just highways in the physical sense
  14. [11:59:30] <Sefiriot> but well. Vvardenfell is a goddamn island
  15. [11:59:30] <Zinitrad> take a look at the ESO map's roads, there's tons of roads that arent' featured in the oblivion map
  16. [11:59:33] <Zinitrad> tons and tons of roads
  17. [11:59:38] <Sefiriot> yeah, I get that
  18. [11:59:45] <Sefiriot> off roading, small roads, and all taht
  19. [11:59:57] <Sefiriot> but for all that and all that-- there's magical means of travel
  20. [11:59:57] <Zinitrad> and then there's tons of roads not featured there because it too is a smallification of cyrodiil
  21. [12:00:19] <Sefiriot> why the hell wouldn't there be magical means of shortening your trip across the province?
  22. [12:00:46] <Sefiriot> So I'd like to maybe suggest that the main roads? Are also funnels
  23. [12:00:57] <Sefiriot> major lines and hubs of magical transportation and its availability
  24. [12:01:02] <Zinitrad> maybe
  25. [12:01:15] <Zinitrad> perhaps there are permanent magical shortenings of space set up
  26. [12:01:42] <Sefiriot> not shortenings. *Bridges.*
  27. [12:01:46] <Zinitrad> on the road its only 100 or so miles from Kvatch to IC, but off the road its more than 500
  28. [12:02:05] <Zinitrad> ?
  29. [12:02:15] <Sefiriot> mmhm. something like that
  30. [12:02:26] <Sefiriot> say, off the main road, it's 500 miles from IC to Kvatch
  31. [12:02:52] <Sefiriot> but if you take the main road, you can opt to use magical transports at certain points
  32. [12:03:12] <Sefiriot> which aren't necessarily available around the smaller rural networks
  33. [12:03:12] <Zinitrad> eeeeeh, a little too Summerset for my tastes
  34. [12:03:48] <Sefiriot> and yet if you're going with the idea of a big Cyrodiil, it's what happens
  35. [12:03:50] <Zinitrad> space warped main roads on the other hand seem perfectly Remanid and post Remanid revival by Septims to me
  36. [12:03:58] <Sefiriot> transport HAS to be efficient
  37. [12:04:04] <Sefiriot> ok, space warped, that works
  38. [12:04:10] <Sefiriot> but also mages guild transports
  39. [12:04:26] <Zinitrad> well yeah but I'd imagine that would have the fee of transport from the guild
  40. [12:04:35] <Sefiriot> yep
  41. [12:04:47] <Sefiriot> which is why I was thinking sort of hub-and-spoke systems, kinda
  42. [12:04:58] <Zinitrad> and only really between locations set up already as teleport hubs
  43. [12:05:02] <Zinitrad> so like city to city
  44. [12:05:04] <Sefiriot> like switching between means of public transport-- train lines to tram lines to buses, etc
  45. [12:05:06] <Sefiriot> yeah
  46. [12:05:38] <Sefiriot> and I'd imagine the guild has these stations set up at key points on the roads
  47. [12:05:39] <Zinitrad> but if you're a farmer going from the rural roads to the main road to a city to peddle goods, it'll be transversing the normal space of the rural roads, then travelling the shortened space of the main road
  48. [12:05:45] <Sefiriot> mmhm
  49. [12:06:25] <Sefiriot> and travelling from a guild station up a point to another on one road incurs x amount; but if you want to go from say, Kvatch to Bruma, you'd have to transfer between 3 major hubs
  50. [12:06:29] <Sefiriot> and that should cost more
  51. [12:06:31] <Zinitrad> its all probably expensive and difficult to maintain
  52. [12:06:47] <Zinitrad> and wouldn't be present in provinces that are mainly coastline
  53. [12:06:51] <Zinitrad> the space warped roads things
  54. [12:06:52] <Zinitrad> so like
  55. [12:07:02] <Zinitrad> High Rock, despite being magic out the ass probably wouldn't have them
  56. [12:07:09] <Zinitrad> because its easier to just get on a damn boat
  57. [12:07:17] <Sefiriot> and they have their own methods, possibly
  58. [12:07:20] <Zinitrad> and the peninsula isn't that wide anyways
  59. [12:07:42] <Zinitrad> same with hammerfell, where nearly all the important places just require getting on a boat and traveling along the coastline
  60. [12:07:42] <Sefiriot> in any case, Mark and Recall can't be the sole province of Dunmer
  61. [12:07:48] <Zinitrad> yeah
  62. [12:08:02] <Sefiriot> and where the concept of one spell exists, so too can its variants
  63. [12:08:28] <Sefiriot> Hammerfell camel trains probably have travel waypoints set up at oases
  64. [12:08:38] <Zinitrad> well the teleportation networks of ESO
  65. [12:08:50] <Zinitrad> while they don't make sense across all tamriel and are pretty obviously there for gameplay
  66. [12:09:14] <Zinitrad> do work for the imperial provinces and as a 'requiring jump to jump rather than from here can jump to anywhere'
  67. [12:09:40] <Sefiriot> mmhm
  68. [12:09:55] <Zinitrad> those teleportation networks still require you to have visited them to function, right?
  69. [12:10:17] <Zinitrad> if so it would allow us to break certain 'well what about this' that would obstruct the idea
  70. [12:10:19] <Sefiriot> so by the late Third and early Fourth, most of the network is probably in disrepair, but maybe some parts are still safe to use. Thoughts?
  71. [12:10:20] <Zinitrad> notably
  72. [12:10:26] <Zinitrad> 'well then what about marching soldiers'
  73. [12:10:29] <Zinitrad> probably
  74. [12:10:59] <Zinitrad> and you can't just march soldiers through them because it would require you to have beforehand brought those soldiers to the destination at one point in their lives
  75. [12:11:04] <Sefiriot> mmhm
  76. [12:11:06] <Zinitrad> which isn't feasible for an army
  77. [12:11:13] <Sefiriot> so at most you'd be bringing small squads
  78. [12:11:24] <Zinitrad> if a small group is appropriate yeah
  79. [12:11:26] <Sefiriot> say maybe 20 men who'd actually been to <place>
  80. [12:11:40] <Zinitrad> but if it requires sending the legion, they're going to have to march
  81. [12:11:44] <Sefiriot> yep
  82. [12:11:56] <Sefiriot> oh
  83. [12:12:00] <Sefiriot> space shortening on main roads
  84. [12:12:12] <Sefiriot> would people suffer ill effects coming off one too fast?
  85. [12:12:26] <Zinitrad> And yeah, like, its one of those things that in the Remanid height, those ages of glory and wealth for the empire, the networks were set up across the provinces
  86. [12:12:29] <Sefiriot> Neradac, feel free to weigh in if you like
  87. [12:12:33] <Zinitrad> and maybe could even be made to function without visiting
  88. [12:12:56] <Zinitrad> but most of the shit got wreckd and the secrets of use were lost over the course of the second era and its wars and degrading due to lack of maintenance
  89. [12:13:01] <Sefiriot> I'd say that they'd have to function without having prior visitations
  90. [12:13:16] <Neradac> whats going on?
  91. [12:13:20] <Sefiriot> it's possible the space warping could've dated back to Alessian times
  92. [12:13:22] <Zinitrad> and what exists now is what few the empire was able to salvage, and they can only get them to work if the individual had priorly visited
  93. [12:13:34] <Sefiriot> Neradac: renovating the concept of Tamrielic travel
  94. [12:13:40] <Zinitrad> er Sef I'm talking the teleportation stuff
  95. [12:13:45] <Sefiriot> hn
  96. [12:13:54] <Zinitrad> the space warped roads I imagine more to be a constant effect that doesn't care who it is or where they've been
  97. [12:14:01] <Sefiriot> same here then
  98. [12:14:12] <Zinitrad> that requires constant maintenance on the stuff holding them together
  99. [12:14:19] <Zinitrad> and I'm not so sure about dating back to days of Alessia
  100. [12:14:30] <Zinitrad> at oldest dating back to the time of Hestra
  101. [12:14:42] <Zinitrad> but I'm thinking more like a thing established by the Remans
  102. [12:14:44] <Sefiriot> not Alessia herself. Was aiming for-- yeah, Hestra
  103. [12:14:58] <Sefiriot> Remans-- maybe
  104. [12:15:06] <Sefiriot> considering they did have the mananaut program
  105. [12:15:19] <Zinitrad> since Hestra is kinda all GLORIOUS GOD-QUEEN AND REUNITER OF COLOVIA AND THE NIBEN
  106. [12:15:54] <Zinitrad> glorious fucked up witchy ritualist and brutal god queen
  107. [12:17:17] <Sefiriot> haha
  108. [12:17:19] <Sefiriot> ok
  109. [12:17:54] <Sefiriot> so, second era: teleportation network built circa Hestra- Remanites, that has deteriorated badly by the time of the third and fourth eras
  110. [12:18:41] <Sefiriot> bits and pieces of it are co-opted by the Mages Guild of the Third era for their own transportation services
  111. [12:19:05] <Sefiriot> other parts are left to rot, forgotten/too dangerous to use except for the truly desperate
  112. [12:19:54] <Sefiriot> Remanites build the great space-warped Roads that cross the Imperial Province
  113. [12:20:43] <Sefiriot> Mages Guild of the Third era have their own lesser transportation services, similar to what's seen in Morrowind. Is that a good summary so far?
  114. [12:21:08] <Zinitrad> teleportation built by the hestrans, expanded across all the provinces under their command by the Remans
  115. [12:21:46] <Zinitrad> then collapsed over the course of the second era due to lack of maintenance by the remanite mages who knew how to handle them and war
  116. [12:22:01] <Sefiriot> Also, the Remans went one better and built those space warping roads? I can get behind that
  117. [12:22:27] <Sefiriot> oh
  118. [12:22:38] <Sefiriot> imagine if it used to take shorter travel times between places on the Roads
  119. [12:22:44] <Zinitrad> a sparse few per province reactivated and rebuilt by Septims but nowhere near as effective as they were in the days of the remans, when a man in Daggerfall could jump to Leyawiin with the proper arrangement
  120. [12:22:50] <Sefiriot> mm
  121. [12:23:45] <Zinitrad> Septim teleportation matrix is limited by requiring you to already been to the place, since by doing so you have been slightly entangled with the location and the matrix can succesfully match you with that location and send you there
  122. [12:23:53] <Zinitrad> you could try to go to one you haven't been to but uh
  123. [12:24:00] <Zinitrad> they don't know how to do that with any accuracy
  124. [12:24:29] <Zinitrad> too many instances of people popping in dozens of feet above the ground, or never showing up at all- presumably having been placed by it deep beneath the soil
  125. [12:25:04] <Zinitrad> so you can only use the teleportation matrix if you've already been to the intended destination point
  126. [12:25:33] <Sefiriot> or lost in space. either way, something to avoid
  127. [12:25:36] <Zinitrad> (Which is why fast travel exists, and why it didn't exist in morrowind- the remans never conquered morrowind, and thus were never able to build a network there :V)
  128. [12:25:44] <Sefiriot> heee
  129. [12:27:14] <Zinitrad> and yeah the remans within cyrodiil made the main roads, the ring that surrounds the imperial city, the road that goes from IC all the way to the gold coast, the road that goes through bravil all the way to Leyawiin, the one that goes up to Cheydinhal, and the one that goes up to Bruma warp space to make travel manageable
  130. [12:27:43] <Zinitrad> such things were never implemented outside of the highlands and west bank because the river covered nibenay was easy enough to travel quickly and easily by boat
  131. [12:27:52] <Sefiriot> Basically, all the named roads in TESIV
  132. [12:28:04] <Zinitrad> and did not require the magical warping of the landscape to make travel feasable
  133. [12:29:00] <Sefiriot> Mhm
  134. [12:29:21] <Zinitrad> similarly provinces like Skyrim recieved minor application of these roads, but nowhere near as much as Cyrodiil, and there are one or two of these space warping highways that traverse the sparsely inhabited interior of hammerfell
  135. [12:29:35] <Sefiriot> So you're saying that the places where the roads go through are warped away from normal space time?
  136. [12:29:42] <Zinitrad> er
  137. [12:29:45] <Zinitrad> not quite
  138. [12:29:56] <Zinitrad> nore like specifically on the road the length between places is warped
  139. [12:30:39] <Zinitrad> not that the cities of Cyrodiil are on a different kind of spacetime
  140. [12:30:44] <Sefiriot> Um, distance being a function of time...
  141. [12:30:46] <Zinitrad> just the main roads between those cities
  142. [12:30:58] <Sefiriot> Yes, that's what I'm asking
  143. [12:31:00] <Zinitrad> sorry I misunderstood you
  144. [12:31:06] <Sefiriot> Not the cities, the roads
  145. [12:31:11] Zinitrad nods
  146. [12:31:50] Anon133 [Anon133@ihw-ruu.sc2.114.188.IP] has joined #memospore2
  147. [12:32:24] <Zinitrad> but the provinces of High Rock, coastal Hammerfell, the city'd portions of Elsweyr, Black Marsh, and the city'd portions of Valenwood have enough capacity for movement by water that space warped roads are unnescessary
  148. [12:32:33] <Sefiriot> Right
  149. [12:32:37] <Zinitrad> and therefore unimplemented due to their cost to maintain
  150. [12:33:12] <Zinitrad> and Summerset already had its own spacewarpy nonsense, and would have resisted all remanite attempts to make their own spacewarping there anyways
  151. [12:34:03] <Sefiriot> The Remans never really got near Summerset anyway
  152. [12:34:30] <Zinitrad> and for morrowind the remans didn't establish either, but honestly with morrowind the inner sea traverses a lot of the interior space and I'm pretty sure there are big rivers that cut through it that even if they got there they wouldn't establish them
  153. [12:34:38] <Zinitrad> yeah
  154. [12:34:47] <Zinitrad> The Remans held Summerset as a province in name only
  155. [12:36:47] <Zinitrad> but yeah so in summary: Hestra onwards: with Cyrodiil one could teleport themselves from one area of Cyrodiil to any other one they wished as long as the mages in command of the matrices allowed it
  156. [12:37:50] <Zinitrad> Remanite: Across all the provincial holdings one could teleport themselves from one area of Tamriel to any other they wished as long as the mages in command of the matrices allowed it, and space warped roads made the long stretches of land in cyrodiil, central skyrim, and central hammerfell traversable
  157. [12:39:04] <Zinitrad> Interregnum: occasionally kingdoms would have enough control of the matrices within their space and have mages well enough trained that those matrices were useable, but most of the time they were almost impossible to use and without maintenance they degraded or were outright destroyed in war, after a few decades of lacking maintenance most of the spacewarped roads just stopped working
  158. [12:40:26] <Zinitrad> Septim: Though much more limited in potential destinations, the teleportation matrix is functioning again, the mage's guild supplying the mages skilled enough to operate them. Secrets have been lost however and one must have already visited a location independent of the teleporter to be able to have any accuracy in the teleportation. Space warped roads are back and functioning as they did in
  159. [12:40:30] <Zinitrad> Remanid times, however.
  160. [12:41:13] <Zinitrad> Morrowind completely lacks these remanid teleporters because the Remans never conquered Morrowind.
  161. [12:41:24] <Zinitrad> anyways this was all fun to bullshit out
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