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Before and After the Machines

christortion
Sep 2nd, 2012
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  1. After/Before Machines
  2.  
  3. Last update 7/9/12. Terry's got Tied to Machines in his sights.
  4.  
  5. On The 28th of August Before Machines received an email from a new band called After Machines:
  6.  
  7. "Alright lads,
  8.  
  9. your name is a bit close to ours and we're going to be doing some gigs in belfast soon. I had this name copyrighted a long time ago so I'm not saying you stole the idea or anything but can you change it? i know it's hard to think of names but this will cause us problems so if you can that'd be great.
  10.  
  11. Terry"
  12.  
  13. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  14.  
  15. Me:"Hello Terry.
  16.  
  17. We have been performing as Before Machines since summer 2008. In that time we've played countless shows throughout the UK, Ireland and Europe, and released several singles, an EP and are gearing up to release our debut album.
  18.  
  19. I find it at best naive, and at worst highly offensive that you expect us to change our name for you.
  20.  
  21. I would dearly like to hear how you managed to copyright "after machines", since I can't seem to find any information about you online. If you're talking about trademarks, I'd say that After Machines would be the ones in need of a name change.
  22.  
  23. Many thanks,
  24.  
  25. Chris, Before Machines."
  26.  
  27.  
  28. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  29.  
  30. Terry: "I thought you'd at least be reasonable about this Chris. I have a letter I posted to myself in 2006 and in that letter it says about the name After Machines. That officially means it is copyrighted. Read up on your music law like I did! I've listened to your band and you's are decent but now that we have all our material ready we will be playing around Northern and Southern Ireland and people will be confused and think we ripped you's off. My friend in Manchester is training to be a music lawyer so I'll check with him for sure but seriously, I think unless you have a letter from before 2006 about Before machines you're not in a good position here.
  31.  
  32. I'll be in touch soon,
  33.  
  34. Terry"
  35.  
  36.  
  37. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  38.  
  39. Me: "Well Terry,
  40.  
  41. You could go through all that hassle, or you could just do the right thing and change your name before you've even played a show or released a record instead of attempting to bully us into a name change.
  42.  
  43. The names aren't the same, so we haven't infringed any "copyright" that you feel entitled to. Besides, you haven't produced anything to which you can "own" the rights to "copy". However, if you want to talk about trademarks, then I am without doubt that we have achieved Prior Rights and Local Distinctiveness through regular use of the "Before Machines" name for the past four years, putting you in the worse position.
  44.  
  45. Thanks,
  46.  
  47. Chris"
  48.  
  49.  
  50. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  51.  
  52.  
  53. Terry: "I knew exactly what I was doing when I copyrighted the name cos I wanted to spend time writing material and making sure we were all happy with it plus we needed to earn money for the best equipment so we've been working are asses off. I don't want everything wrecked just cos some other band with a really similar name have played a few gigs and recorded a few things. I have the letter and my mate says it's definitely legally-binding. Again if you can produce a letter from before 26th March 2006 (yes its stamped too) then we'll happily step down but I don't think you can, can you? When I saw your name I was so dissapointed but I thought you lads would understand and be reasonable about this. We're heading into the studio on Saturday to finish are EP and after that we'll be doing a load of gigs. I'll see if my mate can help me sort this out cos there's no way we're gona give up our name as it means a lot to us and we have legal proof that we had the idea first.
  54.  
  55. Terry"
  56.  
  57.  
  58. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  59.  
  60.  
  61. Me: "Hello Terry,
  62.  
  63. Clearly you did not know what you're doing because it's not possible to copyright a name, and to register a trademark takes more than just mailing something to yourself (which, incidentally, doesn't hold up as well as you might think when attempting to prove copyright. Maybe your mate should study a bit more).
  64.  
  65. I have no doubt that you came up with the band name "After Machines" before we called ourselves "Before Machines", but if you look closely at the names you will realise that the first word is different. We have not infringed on any "copyright" or imaginary trademark you feel you may be entitled to.
  66.  
  67. However, by playing shows in Ireland as "After Machines" it's possible that you could be encroaching on our unregistered "Before Machines" trademark.
  68.  
  69. I shall not be replying to further emails from yourself on this matter. I suggest you contact "Tied To Machines", "Soft Machine", "Florence and the Machine", "Secret Machines", "Turing Machine", and "Rage Against The Machine" with similar grievances.
  70.  
  71. We worked our asses off to buy nice equipment too, and then we toured them all over the place. Nice amps are cool!
  72.  
  73. Thanks,
  74.  
  75. Chris, Before Machines"
  76.  
  77.  
  78. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  79.  
  80. Terry: "Well I decided not to reply to you the other day and save my energy for our recording which we did today. My mate is looking into a legal challenge on your name as no matter what you say, Before Machines is ripping of the name After Machines. You can use your fancy words all you want but we would suffer with you guys keeping your name so we need you to change it.
  81.  
  82. I've spent 6 long years working hard for this and today we've released a song that we've been working on for so long and we hope that it will be a big breakthrough song for us. I don't want it ruined by you lads having such a similar name and saying you had it first making us look like copycats. You say your not going to reply to my emails any more. Fair enough but let me just say that we'll be in touch with your lawyer (if you have one) and I don't need to talk to you after this email-are lawyer will.
  83.  
  84. Oh, let me just leave you with link to our new song and i think you'll see why we should be the ones keeping our name.
  85.  
  86. http://www.tumblr.com/blog/aftermachines
  87.  
  88. Terry"
  89.  
  90. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  91.  
  92. Terry: "Oh, it's http://aftermachines.tumblr.com by the way for our song. Don't want you missing out."
  93.  
  94. Terry
  95.  
  96. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  97.  
  98. Then, after almost a week of silence from Terry, we get this email:
  99.  
  100. "We're looking a drummer now cos our drummer left. It'll be hard to replace him with the different time signatures we have so I was thinking if your drummer wants to join a decent band he can come to us. Pass it on!
  101.  
  102. (oh, my mate will be in touch soon so dont think its all over)
  103.  
  104. Terry"
  105.  
  106. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  107. Update 7/9/12.
  108. So, it's been over a week since I told Terry that I wasn't replying to any of his emails. Looks like he decided to move on to fellow local band 'tied to machines'.
  109.  
  110. Terry:'Hello Tied to Machines,
  111.  
  112. I'm writing to inform you that you's will need to change you're name. It's not really a request as you have to do it. There have been a spate of bands coming up with names too similar to ours and we will not stand for this as we have been working on are material for so long now we don't want bands such as yourselves wrecking it for us. we will take legal action.
  113.  
  114. We legally copyrighted are name on March 26th 2006 and we know for a fact that you have been around for less time. We have contacted another local band recently Before Machines and they have agreed to change their name to LeHavre as we had to get lawyers involved and they dont want the court fees and fine. We have the weight of a legal team behind us provided by the label that we are working with and unless you want to face any serious consequences we would advise you to change you're name. Your messing with things like illegal copyright infringement and impersonation of a brand and defamation of character. We have sympathy if you accidently did this and we know thinking of names is hard. But it seems that some bands have ripped us off and we have every right to challenge this as we have a well established set of material and a label who will be pushing us to the hilt over the next year so we don't want you and other bands getting in are road.
  115.  
  116. As you's aren't that well known it shouldn't affect you too much and we have a lot of big things we need to clear the way for and not have confusion in the local scene.
  117.  
  118. Terry
  119.  
  120. After Machines'
  121. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  122.  
  123. Terry's just plain lying now. 'lehavre'? According to Terry's grasp of the legal system the whole town of LeHavre would be bringing us to court.
  124.  
  125. Anyway, the reply from 'tied to machines':
  126.  
  127. Hi Terry,
  128.  
  129. We have been following whats been happening with regards to Before/After Machines, on twitter. I'm not an expert on copyright law (unlike your 'mate') but we are pretty sure that our name is dissimilar enough to your's to avoid any confusion. As we have invested heavily in our brand in terms of both merchandise and promotion, we will not be changing our name. We suggest that instead of arguing with other bands over name's and trying to bully people with legal action; you work on your music. We heard the demo you put online and to be frank it's piss poor. If that's the standard of music that you plan to put out I doubt that their will be any confusion between yourselves and Before Machines around the 'Scene.' We may be relative new comers but I fail to see how we have ripped you of as from what I can see you have had no output or presence before this month. We will not be bullied into changing our name by your or anyone else.
  130.  
  131. Thank you for your inquiry
  132.  
  133. Connor
  134.  
  135. T2M'
  136.  
  137. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  138.  
  139. Just received this email from a 'Terri' of French band 'LeHavre'. Looks like it was an elaborate hoax all along.
  140.  
  141. Terri: "Bonjour Monsieur Les <<Machines>>
  142.  
  143. Je suis <<Terri>> et je suis de la bande <<Le Havre>>
  144.  
  145. Je comprends que vous envisagez de changer votre nom de nous copier, et cela m'a beaucoup angers. Ceci est notre site web
  146.  
  147. http://www.myspace.com/lehavregroupe
  148.  
  149. Je copyright ce nom en 2004 et nous avons travaillé dur sur notre musique. Nous avons un tour du nord-ouest réservé et ce sera tout gâcher
  150.  
  151. Mon ami est un avocat de la musique et il est d'accord que vous devriez changer votre nom d' << Allez Les Machines >>
  152.  
  153. Salut
  154.  
  155. Terri
  156. "
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