March 7, 1973: The President and Dean

A transcript supplement to the post "The Treason of Richard Nixon Part One" (http://italkyoubored.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/the-treason-of-richard-nixon-from-possibility-to-certainty/).

MARCH 7, 1973: THE PRESIDENT AND DEAN, 8:53-10:12 A.M., OVAL OFFICE

Nixon is impatient and angry with Gray. He does not want Gray questioned by the Senate Judiciary Committee on his Watergate role, and the President proposes a scheme to embarrass both Gray and the FBI, and thereby scuttle the Gray nomination.

NIXON
In other words, let's put him [Gray] on the griddle a little bit as to whether he approves or disapproves of certain things. Let me tell you how this is done the way I would do it.

"Mr. Chairman - I mean Mr. Director - it has been charged that electronic devices were used to - for the purpose of bugging the President - the candidate's plane [in 1968]...I want to ask you. These charges have come to my attention. I want to ask you whether it's true or false." Then say "Now, Mr. Gray, have you investigated these charges? Do you approve of such things? Do you get my point?"

DEAN
Mm-hmmm.

NIXON
They're [the Senate Judiciary Committee] not up there to conduct an investigation of Gray on Watergate. They're up there to conduct his - to question his competence to be head of the FBI and whether he approves of certain things the FBI has been charged with doing over the years....You have to write the questions out. I'll write them out if you want me to...Keep this fairly simple...

Then take all your [William] Sullivan material...It doesn't make any difference whether it's hearsay or not.

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
The game - this game - is not played according to the rules. It's played according to the headlines...Do you understand?

DEAN
Right...

(3:35-4:32)

NIXON
But, you see, what I mean is this. Why don't we now - let's get the stuff out in this hearing? Now that's a perfectly logical place to do it. In other words, raise questions...[For example], "in the 1968 campaign, the FBI, at the request of the White House" - never say who - "at the request of the White House did some electronic surveillance of Vice President Agnew's phone when he was in Phoenix? Is this true or not?..."

DEAN
Just the fact that they're making the charge is going to be our headline.

NIXON
Secondly - that's my point. Then, second, it has also been charged that the White House ordered the electronic surveillance. In other words, I want to put Gray in there. I told him that Hoover had told me, and I'm going to make him lie, because I think Gray's not handling himself well.

DEAN
Mm-hmmm.

NIXON
What he said yesterday with regard to the fact that it was - you know, this jolly well bullshit and all that sort of thing, that it was highly improper for you to be present [during the interrogation of the White House burglars]. Well, Goddamn it, we're not going to let him get away with that.

DEAN
He even said, went so far as to say yesterday that he had told em he thought so. That is an outright misstatement.

NIXON
All right. Well, now we're going to put it to him. He will know he's lying, see, because he knows I told him that Hoover had told me. He knows that he's been told that, because I told Gray specifically. I said I want you to go back and check it. He hasn't done it. Now, you see, what I'm trying to get at here is Gray, and, mind you, it probably is coming to the point that he's either got to - that it's probably not in our interest to let him get in...

DEAN
I know exactly what you're saying, sir.

NIXON
Or do you disagree?

DEAN
No, sir.

NIXON
We thought yesterday was the day of truth, and now he turns out worse yesterday than the day before.

DEAN
Well, he did what he said in this regard. He started the argument that he can't turn over any more material, he's harming the rights of individuals, and the like. He did do that. But not with much success, for this reason: Kennedy bore right in on him again on the old stuff...

NIXON
It's an old story.

DEAN
He's volunteered so much that-

NIXON
...Say you're going to be the director of the FBI. "Mr. Chairman, I am concerned about the FBI being used by the White House for political purposes not only - I mean through the years. Now I want to know - I mean, Mr. Gray, do you have any knowledge that the White House has been doing it this year...Is this true or not? Did the FBI do this or not? Do you approve of that? Will you see that that's not done in the future?" And then repeat it, see. Then I would go on, but mainly I'd go into this stuff that is new. Everybody knows about what happened in the Kennedy thing and rooting the reporters out of bed and all that sort of thing. But people do not know some of this other crap, about how Johnson used the FBI. But just go right down the line on some of it - stuff that you think is fairly good...[C]ertainly not the stuff [morals charges] with [Johnson aide] Walter Jenkins, but there's other stuff that's pretty good.

DEAN
Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

NIXON
....And then Gray lies. He lies, and then we will be willing to call and tell him because he lied under oath and then withdraw his name. Do you get my point?

DEAN
Exactly...

(8:43-9:39)

NIXON
....I ordered him when he was in this room. I directed him. I said you are to give a lie detector test to every individual who may have had anything to do with the electronic bugging of the President's plane in 1968. No, Goddamn it, he hasn't done that....He didn't do it, did he? Has he used lie detector tests?

DEAN
No, sir.

NIXON
I told him to get [Cartha] DeLoach in. I ordered him to. Now we're not going to screw around with a thing like this. Hoover would have lie detected him in one second, you know, if he'd been ordered. What I think is happening here, John, is that Gray - I know the type. He's a nice guy, loyal in his own way. But he's panting after the Goddamn job and is sucking up.

DEAN
As [Presidential aide Tom C.] Korologos says, some of these fellows go up and they get confirmationitis. They change. They're different individuals once they get up there.

NIXON
All right. It's going to happen now. It's got - do you question these tactics?...Do you see what I mean? He's pissed on the White House enough, frankly....Maybe you don't want to pull in Bobby Kennedy, but, Goddamn it, he's dead. But certanly you could pull in all the Johnson crap...It will worry Gray to death. And then if he does lie, he's to be called, and says, all right. I mean, that was a lie. Under the circumstances, you just have to paddle your own canoe up there.

DEAN
I think the man to do this is probably [Senator Edward] Gurney [R-FL] rather than [Senator Roman] Hruska [R-NB], for this reason.

NIXON
Because he's so much smarter.

DEAN
He's smarter and Hruska is extremely close to Kleindienst...

NIXON
Well, does Gurney know you well enough that he won't get up and say it's from the White House? That's what I'm concerned about. I can't-

DEAN
Well, I can have somebody who does know Gurney well enough do it...I'll do it outside.

NIXON
You can say - somebody on the outside can go and say look, we've got some hot stuff here. It'll help you in your campaign. Use it.

DEAN
I like to believe I've operated around here for about two and a half years now, and no one has ever - I've never surfaced until you decided to surface me.

NIXON
You see what I mean? The trouble is, sometimes, with Colson, Ehrlichman, Haldeman, some others involved, is they have not known (unintelligible) do it from the White House. Never do anything from the White House. Never. Always put it out in left field.

DEAN
That's my standard procedure.

NIXON
...My view is if you can get Gurney to do it...Hruska's loyal, but a little bit on the pompous side and would be concerned about hurting the FBI. Gurney won't give one Goddamn what happens to the FBI.

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
And shouldn't be. But now, on Gray, how about it now? My view is that we should - now, what the hell, where's Kleindienst in all this? What in the name of God is he doing?

DEAN
Kleindienst has been totally unable to program what he calls a bull-headed Irishman [Gray] in this whole thing. We have tried. They had - before the hearings started, they had sit-down sessions to plan this whole strategy...It's beyond Dick's control.

NIXON
Now listen. I want all communication with Gray cut off. That's the other thing. Give him the cold stuff for a while.

DEAN
All right.

NIXON
It doesn't do any good to talk to him....agreed?