MidasScam

25[14-09-20 16:29:50.pm] * Now talking in: #bountyhunterXX
25[14-09-20 16:29:50.pm] * Mutsumi (~Mutsumi@unaffiliated/mikuru) joins #bountyhunterXX
29[14-09-20 16:29:51.pm] * #bountyhunterXX has modes: +ns
29[14-09-20 16:29:51.pm] * #bountyhunterXX created on Sat Sep 20 16:29:46 2014
16[14-09-20 16:29:59.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  just a moment
16[14-09-20 16:30:53.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  developer is catching up and refreshing with my post, and your statement
25[14-09-20 16:31:11.pm] * icanprogram (~icanprogr@unaffiliated/icanprogram) joins #bountyhunterXX
16[14-09-20 16:31:14.pm] <icanprogram>  Hey
21[14-09-20 16:31:19.pm] <Mutsumi>  Hello.
16[14-09-20 16:31:23.pm] <icanprogram>  I heard my presence was required :)?
21[14-09-20 16:31:42.pm] <Mutsumi>  Yes.
16[14-09-20 16:31:50.pm] <icanprogram>  What can I help you with?
21[14-09-20 16:32:01.pm] <Mutsumi>  On Midascoin (pre relaunch) was block generation centralized?
16[14-09-20 16:32:08.pm] <icanprogram>  No
16[14-09-20 16:32:15.pm] <icanprogram>  Any node could generate blocks
16[14-09-20 16:32:19.pm] <icanprogram>  and confirm transactions
16[14-09-20 16:32:30.pm] <icanprogram>  After relaunch, that's no longer true
21[14-09-20 16:32:31.pm] <Mutsumi>  but, if you just had a copy of the blockchain
16[14-09-20 16:32:37.pm] <icanprogram>  But you probably knew that
21[14-09-20 16:32:39.pm] <Mutsumi>  you would be unable to tell who mined a block
16[14-09-20 16:32:54.pm] <icanprogram>  Yes, you can never tell who mines a block
21[14-09-20 16:32:57.pm] <Mutsumi>  so, from a thirdpart view, the same address was getting the coinbase transaction
16[14-09-20 16:33:18.pm] <icanprogram>  The closest you can get to knowing who mined a block is tracing it through the network and seeing when it was first announced
21[14-09-20 16:33:19.pm] <Mutsumi>  one address -> centralizetion
16[14-09-20 16:33:26.pm] <icanprogram>  Blockchain.info actually does this, it's pretty cool
21[14-09-20 16:33:30.pm] <Mutsumi>  and you can't do that reliably
16[14-09-20 16:33:32.pm] <icanprogram>  Sorry, I don't follow that last step
21[14-09-20 16:34:00.pm] <Mutsumi>  because aall the coinbases go to a single address, that also means that all rewards are distributed from this address
16[14-09-20 16:34:02.pm] <icanprogram>  You are right in the fact that the coinbase is attributed to the same address every time
16[14-09-20 16:34:03.pm] <icanprogram>  Hold on
16[14-09-20 16:34:10.pm] <icanprogram>  Let me get you some resources
16[14-09-20 16:34:14.pm] <icanprogram>  To read up
21[14-09-20 16:34:27.pm] <Mutsumi>  If it is the PDFs you wrote...
16[14-09-20 16:34:38.pm] <icanprogram>  Yes, the one about block tax
16[14-09-20 16:34:40.pm] <icanprogram>  I suggest you read that
21[14-09-20 16:34:49.pm] <Mutsumi>  give me a sec to point out words in that
16[14-09-20 16:34:55.pm] <icanprogram>  That explains why all blocks have the same block tax
16[14-09-20 16:34:57.pm] <icanprogram>  http://midaspool.com/blocktax.pdf
16[14-09-20 16:35:03.pm] <icanprogram>  *coinbase address
16[14-09-20 16:35:13.pm] <icanprogram>  But to answer your questions, no, mining was not centralized
16[14-09-20 16:35:16.pm] <icanprogram>  Anyone could mine a block
16[14-09-20 16:35:26.pm] <icanprogram>  but the rewards would always go to the PoM pool
16[14-09-20 16:35:32.pm] <icanprogram>  So it can pay out the miners
21[14-09-20 16:35:45.pm] <Mutsumi>  but from someone who was not mining, and didn't know anyone who was mining
21[14-09-20 16:35:53.pm] <Mutsumi>  in the blockchain, THAT was centralized
16[14-09-20 16:36:18.pm] <icanprogram>  I'm sorry, but I really don't follow that last step
16[14-09-20 16:36:31.pm] <icanprogram>  It was *central*, in this case, yes, but it was not centralized
16[14-09-20 16:36:33.pm] <icanprogram>  Anyone could mine
16[14-09-20 16:36:40.pm] <icanprogram>  But hardly anyone did
21[14-09-20 16:36:42.pm] <Mutsumi>  okay, so if you have a node, I have a node, and midas has a node
16[14-09-20 16:36:47.pm] <icanprogram>  Yes
21[14-09-20 16:37:01.pm] <Mutsumi>  icanprogram, and how could you tell if someone did WITHOUT knowing the blocks that your pool mined?
16[14-09-20 16:37:14.pm] <icanprogram>  You couldn't tell
21[14-09-20 16:37:18.pm] <Mutsumi>  and if MidasCoin has the pool, and you are solomining
21[14-09-20 16:37:27.pm] <Mutsumi>  I'm not mining at all, just watching the blocks go by
16[14-09-20 16:37:31.pm] <icanprogram>  Like I said, bitcoin doesn't have identifiers
16[14-09-20 16:37:34.pm] <icanprogram>  For blocks being mined
21[14-09-20 16:37:44.pm] <Mutsumi>  how could I tell which node a block was mined on?
21[14-09-20 16:37:48.pm] <Mutsumi>  exactly
21[14-09-20 16:38:01.pm] <Mutsumi>  so for someone who is just watching, the same node is getiting the coinbase
16[14-09-20 16:38:11.pm] <icanprogram>  So are you now arguing that bitcoin is centralized?
16[14-09-20 16:38:18.pm] <icanprogram>  I really don't follow your reasoning
21[14-09-20 16:38:21.pm] <Mutsumi>  and it is implied that whoever has the coinbase also has the private key for that address
16[14-09-20 16:38:35.pm] <icanprogram>  Well no, that's just a practicality that's true in bitcoin
16[14-09-20 16:38:36.pm] <icanprogram>  Hell
16[14-09-20 16:38:42.pm] <icanprogram>  you can set the coinbase to anything you like
16[14-09-20 16:38:46.pm] <icanprogram>  You can mine coins into nothing
16[14-09-20 16:38:51.pm] <icanprogram>  But consider this-
21[14-09-20 16:38:52.pm] <Mutsumi>  yes... and so... because coinbases were ONLY that address
16[14-09-20 16:38:55.pm] <icanprogram>  If midas was centralized before
16[14-09-20 16:39:08.pm] <icanprogram>  How was the attack that pushed the blank blockchain possible?
21[14-09-20 16:39:11.pm] <Mutsumi>  you can imply that the same node had all the blocks, regardless of whether someone mined or not
16[14-09-20 16:39:14.pm] <icanprogram>  Someone else mined blocks
16[14-09-20 16:39:16.pm] <icanprogram>  and pushed them
16[14-09-20 16:39:20.pm] <icanprogram>  that is what generated the trouble
21[14-09-20 16:39:24.pm] <Mutsumi>  yeah... and that's a disconnected 51% attack
16[14-09-20 16:39:30.pm] <icanprogram>  Exactly
16[14-09-20 16:39:39.pm] <icanprogram>  And that's not possible in a centralized system
16[14-09-20 16:39:45.pm] <icanprogram>  Which is why midas is centralized after the patch
21[14-09-20 16:39:52.pm] <Mutsumi>  eh?
21[14-09-20 16:39:57.pm] <Mutsumi>  Now I'm confused
21[14-09-20 16:40:03.pm] <Mutsumi>  you added an RSA block signing
21[14-09-20 16:40:08.pm] <Mutsumi>  and thaallt's  you really changed
21[14-09-20 16:40:12.pm] <Mutsumi>  and that's all*
16[14-09-20 16:40:32.pm] <icanprogram>  Yes
16[14-09-20 16:40:39.pm] <icanprogram>  In what way does that not centralize block mining?
21[14-09-20 16:40:42.pm] <Mutsumi>  granted, that was smart, but it still means that until you distribure that private key, block generation is still centralized
21[14-09-20 16:41:13.pm] <Mutsumi>  Also should be noted here: http://www.midaspool.com/index.php?page=pom
21[14-09-20 16:41:13.pm] <Mutsumi>  "The attentive reader will notice that this means that the distribution of Midas is centralized, and handled by the official pool."
21[14-09-20 16:41:13.pm] <Mutsumi>  Image for clarification: http://puu.sh/btyke/3ed1a698c0.png
21[14-09-20 16:41:32.pm] <Mutsumi>  Another one: "Since there is only one pool for Midas, all blocks that are found on the network are credited to that pool"
21[14-09-20 16:41:32.pm] <Mutsumi>  On the same page: http://puu.sh/btyxD/8d6b5e0f4a.png
16[14-09-20 16:41:34.pm] <icanprogram>  Huh?
16[14-09-20 16:41:40.pm] <icanprogram>  _still centralized_
16[14-09-20 16:41:44.pm] <icanprogram>  It became centralized
16[14-09-20 16:41:54.pm] <icanprogram>  Because the private key is not going to be distributed
21[14-09-20 16:41:58.pm] <Mutsumi>  it became MORE centralized
16[14-09-20 16:42:11.pm] <icanprogram>  You are 100% correct, the distribution of midas is centralized
21[14-09-20 16:42:13.pm] <Mutsumi>  you get all the coinbase UNTIL the private key is released
16[14-09-20 16:42:22.pm] <icanprogram>  But that does not make midas a centralized cryptocurrency
21[14-09-20 16:42:25.pm] <Mutsumi>  and before, you got all the coinbase regardless
16[14-09-20 16:42:28.pm] <icanprogram>  because mining is not centralized
21[14-09-20 16:42:53.pm] <Mutsumi>  if I  spun up a node pre-relaunch
21[14-09-20 16:42:56.pm] <Mutsumi>  and tried mining
16[14-09-20 16:42:59.pm] <icanprogram>  yes
21[14-09-20 16:43:00.pm] <Mutsumi>  I would NOT get any rewards
16[14-09-20 16:43:00.pm] <icanprogram>  it would work
16[14-09-20 16:43:07.pm] <icanprogram>  No
16[14-09-20 16:43:09.pm] <icanprogram>  But it would mine blocks
16[14-09-20 16:43:17.pm] <icanprogram>  Ok good, I think we have it all cleared up
21[14-09-20 16:43:22.pm] <Mutsumi>  eh?
16[14-09-20 16:43:23.pm] <icanprogram>  I really have to leave now
16[14-09-20 16:43:38.pm] <icanprogram>  Quite busy, as you probably understand
21[14-09-20 16:43:38.pm] <Mutsumi>  not really
16[14-09-20 16:43:43.pm] <icanprogram>  Sorry
16[14-09-20 16:43:44.pm] <icanprogram>  ?
16[14-09-20 16:43:48.pm] <icanprogram>  What am I still missing
21[14-09-20 16:44:11.pm] <Mutsumi>  define what block generation is.
21[14-09-20 16:44:50.pm] <Mutsumi>  because from my view, it is generating a block with transactions and a coinbase going to an account that you have the private key for, and or receiing a reward for the Proof of Work that you had done
16[14-09-20 16:45:10.pm] <icanprogram>  Capturing a number of transactions and distributing the correctness and acceptedness of those transactions over the network
16[14-09-20 16:45:13.pm] <icanprogram>  Optionally for a fee
21[14-09-20 16:46:10.pm] <Mutsumi>  and the coinbase... which is required for all blocks
21[14-09-20 16:46:54.pm] <Mutsumi>  no one who solo mined ever got a coinbased
21[14-09-20 16:47:07.pm] <Mutsumi>  and if they set their own address, they felt scammed because, they didn't get the coinbase
16[14-09-20 16:47:19.pm] <icanprogram>  > and if they set their own address
21[14-09-20 16:47:24.pm] <Mutsumi>  which goes against the whole Proof of Work system
16[14-09-20 16:47:31.pm] <icanprogram>  I highly recommend you read the block tax paper again
16[14-09-20 16:47:41.pm] <icanprogram>  If you set your own address you won't be able to mine a block
21[14-09-20 16:47:42.pm] <Mutsumi>  I know.. you overwrote the pubkey
16[14-09-20 16:47:54.pm] <icanprogram>  Not overwrote
21[14-09-20 16:47:55.pm] <Mutsumi>  you left all the paramters in tact
16[14-09-20 16:47:57.pm] <icanprogram>  Just, set
21[14-09-20 16:48:17.pm] <Mutsumi>  and NEVER used the pubkey paramter in the createblock function
16[14-09-20 16:48:42.pm] <icanprogram>  It does if you're RPC mining
16[14-09-20 16:48:47.pm] <icanprogram>  But CPU mining uses the correct coinbase
16[14-09-20 16:48:50.pm] <icanprogram>  Anyway
16[14-09-20 16:48:54.pm] <icanprogram>  I really am very busy
21[14-09-20 16:48:57.pm] <Mutsumi>  the point is, that to any 3rd party view, block genreation was going to a single address
16[14-09-20 16:48:58.pm] <icanprogram>  So I'm glad I could clear some things up
16[14-09-20 16:49:02.pm] <icanprogram>  Sure
21[14-09-20 16:49:03.pm] <Mutsumi>  and that is centralization
16[14-09-20 16:49:06.pm] <icanprogram>  No
21[14-09-20 16:49:14.pm] <Mutsumi>  add in the fact that all rewards are distributed from the single address
21[14-09-20 16:49:24.pm] <Mutsumi>  it is the center of ALL coins
16[14-09-20 16:49:25.pm] <icanprogram>  That's centralized distribution
16[14-09-20 16:49:29.pm] <icanprogram>  But mining wasn't centralized
16[14-09-20 16:49:33.pm] <icanprogram>  I really have got to go now
16[14-09-20 16:49:42.pm] <icanprogram>  Getting behind on work
16[14-09-20 16:49:52.pm] <icanprogram>  Again, please give everything a careful re-read
16[14-09-20 16:49:59.pm] <icanprogram>  And good night
26[14-09-20 16:50:47.pm] * icanprogram (~icanprogr@unaffiliated/icanprogram) parts #bountyhunterXX ("Leaving")
21[14-09-20 16:50:47.pm] <Mutsumi>  "To create an incen-
21[14-09-20 16:50:47.pm] <Mutsumi>  tive for people to spend their resources on help-
21[14-09-20 16:50:47.pm] <Mutsumi>  ing the network, any user that nds a block (an
21[14-09-20 16:50:47.pm] <Mutsumi>  item of the blockchain that contains a record of
21[14-09-20 16:50:47.pm] <Mutsumi>  conrmed transactions since the last one) is re-
21[14-09-20 16:50:47.pm] <Mutsumi>  warded with Bitcoins."
23[14-09-20 16:51:15.pm]  -> -icanprogram- To create an incen-tive for people to spend their resources on help-ing the network, any user that nds a block (anitem of the blockchain that contains a record ofconrmed transactions since the last one) is re-warded with Bitcoins.
23[14-09-20 16:51:26.pm]  -> -icanprogram- directly from the pdf
23[14-09-20 16:51:49.pm]  -> -icanprogram- in this case, they did NOT get the reward
31[14-09-20 16:52:11.pm] * [icanprogram] is icanprogram!~icanprogr@unaffiliated/icanprogram * icanprogram
31[14-09-20 16:52:11.pm] * [icanprogram] using tepper.freenode.net (US)
31[14-09-20 16:52:11.pm] * [icanprogram] has been idle 1sec, signed on 7hrs 24mins 16secs ago
31[14-09-20 16:52:11.pm] * [icanprogram] is logged in as icanprogram
31[14-09-20 16:52:11.pm] * [icanprogram] End of /WHOIS list.
21[14-09-20 16:53:42.pm] <Mutsumi>  now then, on to you.
21[14-09-20 16:53:55.pm] <Mutsumi>  When I said that it was a 51% attack, why did you think otherwise
21[14-09-20 16:54:22.pm] <Mutsumi>  and now then
21[14-09-20 16:54:41.pm] <Mutsumi>  I would like to point out it it IS centraled (more or less than before), anda gain, request the 10 BTC.
16[14-09-20 16:55:11.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  Hello.  For what i see, the development is totally in disagree with you with the midascoin status before the patch
16[14-09-20 16:55:21.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  at this point, unless you bring a third party rieviewe
16[14-09-20 16:55:27.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  i can not consider your point
16[14-09-20 16:55:32.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  *reviewer
21[14-09-20 16:55:35.pm] <Mutsumi>  you can because he isn't part of your team
21[14-09-20 16:55:54.pm] <Mutsumi>  <9.20.14><16.52.32.pm> <icanprogram> I am not in a discussion with you, and I am not part of the midascoin company
21[14-09-20 16:56:28.pm] <Mutsumi>  and the whole point was to prove something
16[14-09-20 16:56:35.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  he is not part of the company, not a shareholder
21[14-09-20 16:56:47.pm] <Mutsumi>  so I'll just use the git to give you links to how it is now (more or less) centralized
16[14-09-20 16:57:14.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  Now is a total different version, even the coinbase check is removed
21[14-09-20 16:57:29.pm] <Mutsumi>  eh; have you actually looked at it...
16[14-09-20 16:57:44.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  Anyway, as i said, i brought to you a third party community trusted developer, that do not agree with your point
16[14-09-20 16:57:59.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  so, i will reconsider your point, when you bring a third party community developer
21[14-09-20 16:58:11.pm] <Mutsumi>  anyway, I AND the developer just proved that it is NOW centralized
16[14-09-20 16:58:12.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  that is in aggreement with your statement, and is against what icanprogram stated
16[14-09-20 16:58:23.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  NOW it is
16[14-09-20 16:58:37.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  but before the patch, it wasn't
21[14-09-20 16:58:45.pm] <Mutsumi>  hers the thiing.
21[14-09-20 16:58:49.pm] <Mutsumi>  You don't know the code
21[14-09-20 16:58:56.pm] <Mutsumi>  we you already have a bias
21[14-09-20 16:59:10.pm] <Mutsumi>  you already*
21[14-09-20 16:59:21.pm] <Mutsumi>  and since icanprogram wrote the code
21[14-09-20 16:59:25.pm] <Mutsumi>  he is NOT 3rd party
21[14-09-20 16:59:55.pm] <Mutsumi>  earlz however IS
16[14-09-20 17:00:14.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  ok, i will gladly accept a review of earlz
16[14-09-20 17:00:20.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  of the previous code before the patch
21[14-09-20 17:00:23.pm] <Mutsumi>  and you can refernce his posts in the old thread that state that it was centraled pre-relaunch
16[14-09-20 17:00:38.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  whenever you want, bring him and i will make him review the previous code
16[14-09-20 17:00:53.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  and then if he want to "call out against" what icanprogram say, good, i will consider
21[14-09-20 17:01:04.pm] <Mutsumi>  consider... key word
16[14-09-20 17:01:08.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  so, when you want, just bring me earlz for the pre-patch code review
21[14-09-20 17:01:15.pm] <Mutsumi>  you have NO intentions on paying anyone
21[14-09-20 17:01:32.pm] <Mutsumi>  not myself, or another that pointed out IN YOUR THREAD that you were centralized
16[14-09-20 17:01:45.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  <Midas_Coin> so, when you want, just bring me earlz for the pre-patch code review
16[14-09-20 17:01:54.pm] <@4MidasCoin>  this is the situation, have a nice day
26[14-09-20 17:01:56.pm] * @MidasCoin (~MidasCoin@2001:41d0:1:b572::1) parts #bountyhunterXX ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
23[14-09-20 17:02:11.pm]  -> -Midascoin- at this point, it is fruitful to try, because you don't have it and will NOT give out the bounty because you don't want to