[00:51] <~Kapow> >I said a long while ago that war is just demographics on speed. And that goes the other way too: illegal immigration is just war slowed down. I don’t mean that like some hysterical Minuteman having a coronary in his Dodge Ram because somebody ran across the Arizona border: “They’re invading!” but I do buy the general concept that mass immigration is weirdly similar to guerrilla war without weapons.
[00:51] <~Kapow> >The way it’s usually done, smuggling Mexicans into the US or Africans into the EU in crates or trucks, is a lot like a huge, slow covert operation.
[00:52] <The_Writing_Tree> because obviously NONE of them integrate into society... right?
[00:52] * Blue_ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[00:53] <~Kapow> well, he covers that in the one I linked
[00:53] <~Kapow> near the end
[00:53] <The_Writing_Tree> sigh
[00:53] <The_Writing_Tree> Trying to read it all
[00:53] <~Kapow> >Studies of the U.S. Hispanic population show that within a generation or two, most American Hispanics are ranting about policing the borders and keeping those damn immigrants out of the country. What’s really weird -- and I can testify to this from my own experiences growing up -- is when the local culture infiltrates the immigrants, like the fact that Mexicans in the U.S. are deserting the Catholics and becoming born-again Protestants.
[00:53] <The_Writing_Tree> but he spouts off a lot of bullshit
[00:54] <~Kapow> >are deserting the Catholics and becoming born-again Protestants.
[00:54] <%BlackAmethyst> someone in a random chat
[00:54] <~Kapow> >Go to any of the younger, feister churchers in the U.S. like the Church of the Nazarene and you’ll see lots of Mexican families with plenty of kids, singing old Scottish hymns in Tex-Mex English.
[00:54] <~Kapow> >So the nightmare scenario that anti-immigrant bloggers are always predicting, where the U.S. turns into one giant Mexico, might end up being true in what you might call “racial” terms -- I mean, your second-grade class photo might be two-thirds Hispanic --
[00:54] <~Kapow> >but those Hispanic faces would have absorbed a whole born-again American world picture that actually comes from the Scots-Irish who settled the American south hundreds of years ago.
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[00:56] <KChasm> Interesting.
[00:57] <~Kapow> >This is one point where people’s anxiety over these slow, demographic conquests splits according to their real fears: do you just not want to see that kind of face when you go outside, or do you not want to import the culture of the immigrants’ home country?
[00:57] <~Kapow> >The whole debate right now is so censored, so totally dishonest on both sides, that nobody will come clean about which it is. I suspect for some people it’s the faces: they want the faces on their street to be the same shape and color they were when they were growing up.
[00:58] <Karesh> I think the thing is that the style of warfare might work if it were an actual war
[00:58] <Karesh> but really it's not anymore, south Americans aren't coming here to conquer America, they're coming here because something works better than it does down there
[00:58] <~Kapow> what?
[00:59] <~Kapow> well that's the thing
[00:59] <~Kapow> what is the point of war?
[00:59] <~Kapow> to get what the other guy's got?
[00:59] <Niski> the point of war is to make money
[00:59] <Niski> for the elites
[00:59] <Niski> the people are completely sidelined in all of it
[00:59] <Karesh> Point of war is to ensure your genes survive better than somebody elses
[01:00] <The_Writing_Tree> Hell Niski my name is Jade
[01:00] <%BlackAmethyst> point of war is legalized murder
[01:00] <~Kapow> and how better to do that then send those genes to a better country and keep reproducing there?
[01:00] <KChasm> It's not like my ancestors grew up here or anything, so i don't really have a dog in the race.
[01:00] <KChasm> I don't really care much how people look and act as long as they're good people. Or something.
[01:01] <~Kapow> you guys are talking about 20th century war
[01:01] <~Kapow> I mean like, war in general
[01:01] <KChasm> That's a very naive, unphilosophic view, but I'm not a philosophic guy.
[01:01] <~Kapow> the wars that shaped europe
[01:01] <~Kapow> the huns and the goths and all that
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[01:02] <The_Writing_Tree> 20th century? Huns? Goths?
[01:02] <The_Writing_Tree> One of these things is not like the other...
[01:02] <~Kapow> yes that's my point
[01:02] <The_Writing_Tree> ...Well then.
[01:02] <The_Writing_Tree> Glad I could help.
[01:03] <%BlackAmethyst> don't you just wish there was another big war and you could shoot your neighbour and just say he was communist/facist/terrorist/whatever and get away with it?
[01:03] <The_Writing_Tree> Erm, no
[01:03] <~Kapow> no, I have no real desire to shoot my neighbors
[01:03] <The_Writing_Tree> I'm not a socioppath
[01:03] <%BlackAmethyst> awwww
[01:03] <~Kapow> why would you want to do that
[01:03] <%BlackAmethyst> that's no fun
[01:03] <The_Writing_Tree> I have no desire to shoot my neighbors, although if I could get them to move away that'd be nice.
[01:03] <The_Writing_Tree> But shooting them? No thanks.
[01:04] <Karesh> I wonder if it's a matter of how connected we all are these days
[01:04] <Fishman> such 'witch hunts' have never been seen favorably in history. I'm sure the whole Gitmo incident will be seen as quite shameful down the line.
[01:04] <~Kapow> it's seen as shameful right now
[01:04] <The_Writing_Tree> damnit I've eaten everything pre-made in the house that's not chocolate AND I'M STILL HUNGRY
[01:04] <The_Writing_Tree> and i'm too lazy to make anything
[01:04] <The_Writing_Tree> fuck
[01:04] <%BlackAmethyst> get a worm
[01:04] <Karesh> Like, tribal days, someone from the tribe nearby might be somebody you'd never really even met or talked to
[01:04] <~Kapow> and everyone intelligent knows it's just another witch hunt
[01:05] <Karesh> and then suddenly you're a nation togehter, and you don't think you should hate them as much anymore
[01:05] <~Kapow> karesh: or you have civil wars
[01:05] * Mokotan Quit
[01:05] <~Kapow> "suddenly you're a nation" worked out really well in the middle east and africa
[01:05] <Karesh> then you're a continent together, and all of a sudden with the information age the first world can't get past the idea that we're all Humanity rather than any of these little things that make it up
[01:06] <Karesh> Well, it did
[01:06] <Karesh> sorta
[01:06] <Karesh> in some cases
[01:06] <~Kapow> uh huh
[01:06] <Karesh> for a while...
[01:06] <Karesh> maybe
[01:06] <%Lion> yeah no
[01:06] <Karesh> Well I mean
[01:06] * Squishy Quit (Quit: [19:52] <Latooni> You can now roleplay the little girl screaming in pain [19:52] <Latooni> which is the fun part)
[01:06] <Karesh> Persia Egypt Summeria
[01:06] <The_Writing_Tree> HAHA
[01:06] <The_Writing_Tree> Damn I love you kapow
[01:06] <The_Writing_Tree> You're so correct
[01:07] <%Lion> gay
[01:07] <%BlackAmethyst> This makes me think
[01:07] <The_Writing_Tree> (I love lion, too)
[01:07] <Karesh> Worked out okay for them
[01:07] <~Kapow> most of the sane nations formed gradually
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[01:07] <~Kapow> nationhood wasn't a "sudden" thing
[01:07] <~Kapow> it just happened with advances in agriculture and technology
[01:07] <%BlackAmethyst> Racism in and of itself is an ethymologically flawed term in its current usage because it refers to discrimination based on races as opposed to how according to people "agaisnt racism" humans are only one single race
[01:08] <%BlackAmethyst> therefore, there can't technically be racism if it's the same race
[01:08] <~Kapow> people could settle down, live longer, reproduce more
[01:08] <~Kapow> suddenly you've got a city
[01:08] <~Kapow> well, not suddenly
[01:08] <~Kapow> you get what I mean
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[01:08] <Karesh> I didn't really mean it suddenly either
[01:09] <The_Writing_Tree> hey
[01:09] <Fishman> well for most countries in the middle east and Africa, they were suddenly made by the european countries colonizing them.
[01:09] <The_Writing_Tree> when did we have a quest to find the ultimate rumia
[01:09] <~Kapow> well it's not like two tribes decide to be a nation
[01:09] <The_Writing_Tree> Did I miss something
[01:09] <Karesh> I just meant that without regard to time we've followed a progressive cycle of ever increasing unity
[01:09] <~Kapow> that's more a function of communication than anything, I think
[01:09] <Karesh> Not total unity obviously, but at the least a lot less people identify other people as enemies
[01:10] <~Kapow> I don't even know what country half the people in this chat are in