* Loaded log from Wed May  4 15:55:34 2016
[20:44:02]
[20:46:44] <Giga> so
[20:46:54] <Giga> can we just settle this dispute in IB so I can sleep?
[20:48:14] <LHB> so what exactly did you want learn from attacking him
[20:48:56] <Giga> whether he was telling the truth about not having his powers
[20:49:53] <LHB> which we will find out if he stops your attacks before hitting either of us
[20:50:00] <Giga> if he godmods, then congratulations, question answered
[20:50:15] <Giga> if he dies, then question still answered
[20:50:24] <Giga> plus my character wants him dead at any cost
[20:51:07] <LHB> well he's not going to die if you kill him this battle, since everyone gets revived after anyways
[20:51:28] <Giga> thus my statement that I'd relinquish the matter as pointless if he revives
[20:52:02] <Giga> hell, I'll even start healing him
[20:52:25] <LHB> but you already know its pointless, since you know he is going to revive
[20:52:36] <Giga> I still have things to gain from this
[20:52:59] <Giga> you have nothing to gain from dying
[20:54:25] <LHB> so what exactly is your optimum outcome in this, considering that its impossible for him to die anyways and you will end up wasting your turn and possibly killing me
[20:55:19] <Giga> information
[20:55:22] <LHB> and if you dont do it, we get three extra moves in and im still alive
[20:55:34] <Giga> information is key to everything
[20:55:52] <Giga> it's how I make all these plans that everyone relies on so much
[20:56:33] <Giga> that, and I'll be playing my character right
[20:56:57] <LHB> its always possible that he dies without us killing him ourselves
[20:57:10] <Giga> it is
[20:57:31] <Giga> but you can't guarantee that that's going to happen in the future
[20:57:58] <Giga> we have the chance, here and now
[20:58:00] <Giga> and we're taking it
[20:58:31] <Giga> besides, what if this information becomes crucial to know, before we know it?
[20:58:35] <LHB> and this information is so valuable that it is worth going through all of this?
[20:58:58] <Giga> if it wasn't, would we have even started the whole debacle?
[20:59:05] <LHB> what exactly can we do to stop him if he does in fact have his powers
[20:59:34] <Giga> the point isn't that we can't stop him if he has his powers
[20:59:44] <Giga> it's that we should be having an easier time if he does
[20:59:45] <LHB> and what exactly do we do if he doesnt have his powers, yet he cant die and cant leave our party
[21:00:16] <Giga> if he doesn't have his powers, then we know he's lying, and we can kick him out if he becomes a danger to the world as a whole by regaining his powers
[21:00:40] <Giga> we can prevent him from regaining his powers
[21:02:12] <Giga> even if
[21:02:16] <Giga> as the title of the thread states
[21:02:28] <Giga> we have to fight him until an infinite amount of time passes
[21:03:12] <Giga> or we have to just keep fighting him
[21:03:19] <Giga> an infinite amount of times
[21:03:29] <Giga> we could make the game world a better place by doing so.
[21:04:03] <Giga> this is a simple matter of whether mariocool was lying, or telling the truth.
[21:04:26] <Giga> if he dies, he was telling the truth, and nothing of value was lost other than four points of damage.
[21:04:56] <Giga> if he doesn't, he was lying, and nothing of value was lost other than four points of damage, and maybe not even that.
[21:05:04] <Giga> all of that is lost if you step in.
[21:07:51] <Giga> still there?
[21:08:14] <LHB> sorry was doing something
[21:08:37] <Giga> it's cool
[21:09:19] <Giga> got all the info you need to make a decision?
[21:10:27] <LHB> considering that the battles are only going to get harder, you still dont think that mc could die in a later battle?
[21:10:44] <Giga> it's not that I don't think that he could die
[21:11:03] <Giga> it's that I don't want to wait
[21:12:15] <Giga> I have the chance now
[21:12:21] <Giga> and I'm going to take it.
[21:12:21] <LHB> my biggest issue with this is that we are deliberately killing him, and that's only going to further alienate him from us and break his trust
[21:12:42] <Giga> we have two clear sides to the issue
[21:12:55] <Giga> it will only alienate him from me and TRS
[21:13:20] <Giga> frankly, I don't trust him in the first place, and TRS is willing to take that risk
[21:14:37] <LHB> and it will alienate you from whatever team members dont want mc to die as well
[21:14:55] <Giga> that's part of the package deal
[21:15:02] <LHB> or agree with me that it is not important to kill him right now
[21:15:32] <Giga> I'd argue that it's more important to kill him now than in battle 21, for example
[21:15:44] <Giga> as we'll be another five battles away from plot
[21:17:02] <Giga> and the information we gain from attempting to kill him could be integral to decision making further down the line
[21:17:11] <Giga> we may not have another chance to get this information
[21:17:47] <Giga> may, not will
[21:19:22] <Giga> regardless, that's more of the circular kind of argument that I'm trying to avoid
[21:21:33] <Giga> think about it this way
[21:21:44] <Giga> me and TRS are gonna be murderers regardless of whether you step in or not
[21:21:59] <Giga> the only thing you're gonna change is which person we make the victim
[21:23:41] <Giga> do you want to take mariocool's place?
[21:24:03] <Giga> and, knowing what you know, potentially lengthen the amount of time we take not fighting kamek?
[21:24:56] <Giga> your stepping in is arguably more pointless than our killing mariocool
[21:25:32] <Giga> and if you're trying to prevent pointless actions, it would make sense not to step in
[21:25:47] <Giga> as we can't be persuaded
[21:25:49] <LHB> no, your killing anyone is definately more pointless than not attacking kamek
[21:26:50] <Giga> the total amount of pointlessness would be less if you don't step in, is what I'm trying to say
[21:27:11] <Giga> utilitarianism
[21:27:23] <LHB> and the total amount of pointlessness would be even less if you didnt attack me at all
[21:27:24] <Giga> is the name of the philosophy I'm trying to use
[21:27:40] <Giga> it absolutely would!
[21:27:42] <Giga> you're right!
[21:28:01] <Giga> but that's only gonna happen if you step out of my way.
[21:28:34] <LHB> im not letting you attack mc, when you could be using your turn for the battle at hand
[21:29:03] <Giga> then I'm not letting you live, when you could be using your turn for the battle at hand
[21:29:30] <LHB> but that's only if you attack
[21:29:40] <Giga> and that's only if you defend mariocool.
[21:30:23] <LHB> now, here is some utilitarian philosophy for you
[21:30:39] <LHB> what would be better right now, you and trs attacking me and killing me, or all three of us using our moves against kamek?
[21:30:59] <Giga> obviously the second option
[21:31:09] <Giga> however, what would be even better
[21:31:12] <Giga> is this third option
[21:31:18] <Giga> where we find out more about mariocool
[21:31:18] <LHB> or killing mc
[21:32:03] <Giga> killing MC is better than not killing him.
[21:32:11] <LHB> despite possibly killing him and alienating yourselves even more?
[21:32:19] <Giga> right.
[21:32:53] <LHB> i completely disagree
[21:33:06] <Giga> then I believe we have nothing more to discuss.
[21:33:34] <Giga> either you will die this turn, or TRS will get the information he wants so much.
[21:34:10] <Giga> the first outcome is obviously not desirable.
[21:34:39] <Giga> quoting my partner in crime, You don't have to die.
[21:35:13] <Giga> mariocool does.
[21:35:19] <LHB> neither is the second, considering the risk of getting that information
[21:35:43] <Giga> you're not fully embracing utilitarian philosophy, then
[21:35:54] <Giga> risk is irrelevant
[21:36:20] <LHB> i dont want to. i find that method of thinking extremely outdated in most cases
[21:36:45] <LHB> if you attack mariocool, either mariocool will redirect your attacks, or i will die
[21:36:52] <Giga> examining the results of the actions I'm going to take, compared to the results of the actions I'm not, I think this is for the best.
[21:36:59] <Giga> your reaction is yours alone.
[21:38:46] <Giga> if I didn't attack, you would still be in our way next turn
[21:39:14] <Giga> and we'd have to go through this whole argument all over again
[21:39:26] <Giga> and get absolutely nowhere