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May 6th, 2014
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  1. [5/5/2014 10:43:49 PM] *** SuMguy added Ray ***
  2. [5/5/2014 10:44:02 PM] SuMguy : Hey guys, party chat!
  3. [5/5/2014 10:44:17 PM] SuMguy : Ray meet Pon Crypto
  4. [5/5/2014 10:44:17 PM] Pon Crypto: Scammer1 logging in :)
  5. [5/5/2014 10:44:22 PM] SuMguy : lol
  6. [5/5/2014 10:44:34 PM] SuMguy : yea, tough crowd man, not sure how u can deal with it all
  7. [5/5/2014 10:44:38 PM] SuMguy : but, could be profitable
  8. [5/5/2014 10:44:40 PM] Ray : whats up people
  9. [5/5/2014 10:44:44 PM] Pon Crypto: Hey Ray
  10. [5/5/2014 10:45:11 PM] Ray : Hey Pon Crypto, I just got a 15 second intro on you from Mike -- you're into the bitcoin stuff also I am learning
  11. [5/5/2014 10:45:39 PM] Pon Crypto: Yea i do the raw bitcoind stuff mixed with some good old fashioned php and mysql
  12. [5/5/2014 10:46:01 PM] Ray : nice
  13. [5/5/2014 10:46:13 PM] Ray : Mike sent me the link to your site, just checking it out now
  14. [5/5/2014 10:46:31 PM] Ray : haha nice
  15. [5/5/2014 10:47:02 PM] Ray : you're interested in selling I guess?
  16. [5/5/2014 10:47:15 PM] SuMguy : yea
  17. [5/5/2014 10:47:19 PM] SuMguy : i was talking to him about it
  18. [5/5/2014 10:47:28 PM] SuMguy : he has a few sites in this vertical
  19. [5/5/2014 10:47:31 PM] SuMguy : canadian :P
  20. [5/5/2014 10:47:48 PM] Pon Crypto: yep a local
  21. [5/5/2014 10:47:55 PM] Pon Crypto: ltc one is not doing well
  22. [5/5/2014 10:48:03 PM] Pon Crypto: the coin is suffering as well
  23. [5/5/2014 10:48:09 PM] SuMguy : would u sell both?
  24. [5/5/2014 10:48:17 PM] Ray : ah
  25. [5/5/2014 10:48:23 PM] Ray : how do you deal with the long blocks on btc?
  26. [5/5/2014 10:48:41 PM] Pon Crypto: I hold all 0 confirmations transactions as pending
  27. [5/5/2014 10:48:42 PM] Ray : i'm no btc expert but just read about it out of curiosity and always hear that as the biggest complaint
  28. [5/5/2014 10:48:55 PM] Pon Crypto: then once it is cleared ... it gets released
  29. [5/5/2014 10:49:03 PM] Ray : nice
  30. [5/5/2014 10:49:08 PM] Pon Crypto: another pain in the ass is that not all transactions clear at same time
  31. [5/5/2014 10:49:25 PM] Pon Crypto: so you gotta wait until the most bottom one is cleared
  32. [5/5/2014 10:49:31 PM] SuMguy : ie the first?
  33. [5/5/2014 10:49:51 PM] Pon Crypto: because transactions don't get included in the block in the same order they are recieved
  34. [5/5/2014 10:50:11 PM] Pon Crypto: we had issues with that on ltc... so it was fixed for btc
  35. [5/5/2014 10:50:24 PM] Pon Crypto: doge is not a problem because block times are so fast
  36. [5/5/2014 10:50:25 PM] Ray : what kind of back-end sys-admin stuff is required to keep it running? I'm imagining the php/mysql setup doesn't require much tweaking?
  37. [5/5/2014 10:50:38 PM] Pon Crypto: the main bugs have been worked out
  38. [5/5/2014 10:51:35 PM] Pon Crypto: but at times you need to get into it
  39. [5/5/2014 10:51:48 PM] Ray : right
  40. [5/5/2014 10:51:54 PM] SuMguy : yea, and im no dev
  41. [5/5/2014 10:51:55 PM] Pon Crypto: especially if some guy sent without a fee
  42. [5/5/2014 10:51:55 PM] Ray : i'm just reading about it on your site
  43. [5/5/2014 10:52:02 PM] Pon Crypto: you need to make sure its skipped
  44. [5/5/2014 10:52:09 PM] Ray : like what are the cases where the automation breaks?
  45. [5/5/2014 10:52:20 PM] Ray : i'm assuming its mostly automated?
  46. [5/5/2014 10:52:58 PM] Pon Crypto: At the moment all is automated except setting the new address and new dates
  47. [5/5/2014 10:53:11 PM] SuMguy : new dates?
  48. [5/5/2014 10:53:17 PM] Pon Crypto: new date for the game run
  49. [5/5/2014 10:53:18 PM] SuMguy : or moving the archie
  50. [5/5/2014 10:53:21 PM] SuMguy : ahhh
  51. [5/5/2014 10:53:27 PM] SuMguy : manually move archive too?
  52. [5/5/2014 10:53:39 PM] SuMguy : i noticed it didnt move over today when the new game started
  53. [5/5/2014 10:53:53 PM] Ray : I'm guessing the subscription/new round notify system isn't really taking off?
  54. [5/5/2014 10:54:07 PM] Pon Crypto: 200 subscribers
  55. [5/5/2014 10:54:12 PM] SuMguy : nice, thats pretty decent
  56. [5/5/2014 10:54:24 PM] SuMguy : is that for ltc too?
  57. [5/5/2014 10:54:26 PM] SuMguy : or just this site
  58. [5/5/2014 10:54:32 PM] Pon Crypto: thats all togethere
  59. [5/5/2014 10:54:33 PM] SuMguy : and how many copy cat games are out there
  60. [5/5/2014 10:55:04 PM] SuMguy : where were u when we wanted to do our retnal site. LOL
  61. [5/5/2014 10:56:11 PM] Pon Crypto: I ussualy dont do consulting :)
  62. [5/5/2014 10:56:15 PM] Pon Crypto: There are a few
  63. [5/5/2014 10:56:23 PM] SuMguy : yea. we worked with a dev
  64. [5/5/2014 10:56:26 PM] Pon Crypto: But we have trust... thats why its still lgoing
  65. [5/5/2014 10:56:41 PM] SuMguy : but the rack sat there idle
  66. [5/5/2014 10:56:47 PM] SuMguy : i decided to pull the plug and move on
  67. [5/5/2014 10:56:52 PM] SuMguy : kinda lame, but it happens
  68. [5/5/2014 10:57:11 PM] SuMguy : well, is the ponz games atleast the leader in the vertical ?
  69. [5/5/2014 10:57:26 PM] SuMguy : i guess my concern is we get it and thts it, we cant manage it or run it
  70. [5/5/2014 10:57:31 PM] Pon Crypto: For now... but I will be honest I don't know how long it will run
  71. [5/5/2014 10:57:33 PM] SuMguy : turn key is important for me atleast
  72. [5/5/2014 10:58:15 PM] Pon Crypto: And I am now thinking about the 10BTC price.. if I actually focus and make it 100% automatic... i just rather hire a promoter at a commission and let it ride
  73. [5/5/2014 10:58:28 PM] SuMguy : yea. makes sense
  74. [5/5/2014 10:58:35 PM] Pon Crypto: But then i don't have time for my finance stuff ....
  75. [5/5/2014 10:58:48 PM] Pon Crypto: I have so many ideas and ability to make them happen ... just not enough time
  76. [5/5/2014 10:59:14 PM] Pon Crypto: Refused an offer from google earlier this year... my parents wanted to disown me
  77. [5/5/2014 10:59:17 PM] Ray : I'm thinking to grow the user base, you should go for as close to break-even days as possible for a while, but I am just a sysadmin lol
  78. [5/5/2014 11:00:19 PM] Pon Crypto: That is the VC approach :)
  79. [5/5/2014 11:00:28 PM] Ray : right
  80. [5/5/2014 11:00:47 PM] Ray : in the face of stiffening competition, it seems to be the best approach
  81. [5/5/2014 11:01:12 PM] Ray : it looks like its not just ponzi games that are the competition, but all sorts of casino games being ported over to BTC lately
  82. [5/5/2014 11:01:21 PM] Ray : (just browsing the section on bitcointalk)
  83. [5/5/2014 11:01:47 PM] SuMguy : lol
  84. [5/5/2014 11:01:51 PM] SuMguy : enjoy
  85. [5/5/2014 11:02:15 PM] SuMguy : btc just seems to be a fail for me lately
  86. [5/5/2014 11:02:19 PM] Ray : haha, crazy world, but interesting!
  87. [5/5/2014 11:02:59 PM] Pon Crypto: yea I don't like casino because... once established guys turn on BTC... there is no way to win against that
  88. [5/5/2014 11:03:18 PM] Ray : right
  89. [5/5/2014 11:03:32 PM] Ray : so I guess you're re-evaluating whether you want to even sell?
  90. [5/5/2014 11:03:49 PM] Pon Crypto: I was actually going to do a bitcoin/altcoin payment processor but cofounder bitched out and got a job somewhere
  91. [5/5/2014 11:04:44 PM] Pon Crypto: Yea I mean I just threw it out there.. but if I did not require me to do a lot of work I would sell
  92. [5/5/2014 11:04:50 PM] Pon Crypto: Especially if we can package all three
  93. [5/5/2014 11:05:04 PM] Pon Crypto: ltc being worth nothing ofcorse
  94. [5/5/2014 11:05:27 PM] Ray : haha yeah, sucks about the LTC stuff
  95. [5/5/2014 11:05:43 PM] SuMguy : well, we can always revist the idea, i have you on skype now
  96. [5/5/2014 11:05:53 PM] Ray : a blackcoin one would do well I imagine
  97. [5/5/2014 11:05:54 PM] SuMguy : i mean, i would need to think about it since i would fund it
  98. [5/5/2014 11:06:04 PM] Pon Crypto: Is blackcoin that popular
  99. [5/5/2014 11:06:13 PM] SuMguy : my only interest is ltc and btc
  100. [5/5/2014 11:06:25 PM] Ray : It's relatively stable, for now, which makes it popular
  101. [5/5/2014 11:06:29 PM] Pon Crypto: y u no like doge?
  102. [5/5/2014 11:06:34 PM] Ray : lol
  103. [5/5/2014 11:06:46 PM] Pon Crypto: I mean user wise... a lot more people use btc then anything else
  104. [5/5/2014 11:06:53 PM] Ray : yeah
  105. [5/5/2014 11:07:41 PM] Ray : how much would you be asking just for the BTC one?
  106. [5/5/2014 11:08:22 PM] Ray : I am just worried about the level of marketing required and trying to figure out how much that would have to play into any overall budget for the deal.....seems like we would need a considerable amount of whatever our total investment is to be spent on marketing.
  107. [5/5/2014 11:08:22 PM] Pon Crypto: I threw out 10BTC .. did not think about what that meant in terms of training / support and migration
  108. [5/5/2014 11:08:29 PM] SuMguy : yea, i didnt mention anything since I wanted to clear it with him first..
  109. [5/5/2014 11:08:55 PM] Ray : I don't know if Mike told you, but the last few days he has been basically addicted to your game site, he mentioned it to me everytime we chatted on the phone....but if we were to own it, we would want guys like Mike lol, x 50
  110. [5/5/2014 11:09:23 PM] SuMguy : haha. yea. well. hard to get guys who blow btc
  111. [5/5/2014 11:09:24 PM] SuMguy : lol
  112. [5/5/2014 11:09:25 PM] Ray : just wondering what cost of customer acquisition is on this kind of business
  113. [5/5/2014 11:09:29 PM] Ray : and if its even viable
  114. [5/5/2014 11:10:04 PM] Pon Crypto: lol i never think in terms of that...
  115. [5/5/2014 11:10:13 PM] Pon Crypto: I just go with my gut
  116. [5/5/2014 11:10:19 PM] Pon Crypto: or copy something that works
  117. [5/5/2014 11:10:34 PM] Pon Crypto: but I am no boy genius in business... no bugatti here
  118. [5/5/2014 11:10:42 PM] Ray : I see the Doge thing working out, just the entire doge community is so down with these things, but with bitcoin, the mood becomes much more serious it seems and people want returns
  119. [5/5/2014 11:10:47 PM] Ray : haha
  120. [5/5/2014 11:10:49 PM] Ray : same here
  121. [5/5/2014 11:11:19 PM] Ray : you're running the bitcoin one for 3 days now?
  122. [5/5/2014 11:12:14 PM] Ray : and how flexible are you on your asking? Just want to run some numbers tonight and see what kind of numbers would make sense for us
  123. [5/5/2014 11:13:28 PM] Pon Crypto: Not sure of the price... I already made 2 BTC running it for 5 rounds so I am not even sure if 10BTC makes sense
  124. [5/5/2014 11:13:50 PM] SuMguy : yea, i think you should ask more if you have more guys like me playing
  125. [5/5/2014 11:14:06 PM] *** SuMguy sent bitpile.ods bitpile.ods ***
  126. [5/5/2014 11:14:08 PM] Pon Crypto: yea thats y I came to you with promo deal :)
  127. [5/5/2014 11:14:10 PM] SuMguy : thats my contribution
  128. [5/5/2014 11:14:20 PM] SuMguy : i graphed it to follow along
  129. [5/5/2014 11:14:28 PM] SuMguy : well, exceled it
  130. [5/5/2014 11:14:30 PM] SuMguy : not graphed
  131. [5/5/2014 11:14:31 PM] Ray : holy shit mike
  132. [5/5/2014 11:14:33 PM] Ray : you have a problem
  133. [5/5/2014 11:14:33 PM] Pon Crypto: Ive seen it.. sorry paranoid.. will not download excel
  134. [5/5/2014 11:14:34 PM] Ray : lol
  135. [5/5/2014 11:14:39 PM] SuMguy : no problem
  136. [5/5/2014 11:14:55 PM] Pon Crypto: its a sysadmin thing... Ray probably knows
  137. [5/5/2014 11:15:03 PM] Pon Crypto: excel can be vicious :)
  138. [5/5/2014 11:15:07 PM] Ray : yep
  139. [5/5/2014 11:15:17 PM] SuMguy : open office
  140. [5/5/2014 11:15:21 PM] SuMguy : but a spread sheet
  141. [5/5/2014 11:15:27 PM] Pon Crypto: The shit they embed into PDFs these days is next level
  142. [5/5/2014 11:15:29 PM] Ray : I've known Mike for years, so if he sent me something malicious, I'd just start hitting on his wife every time I saw her until he got annoyed
  143. [5/5/2014 11:15:39 PM] SuMguy : lol
  144. [5/5/2014 11:15:48 PM] Pon Crypto: Lol
  145. [5/5/2014 11:16:25 PM] Pon Crypto: Anyways lets sleep on it... maybe we can figure something out... maybe split promo... for a few rounds to see how you do
  146. [5/5/2014 11:16:35 PM] Ray : thats a good idea
  147. [5/5/2014 11:16:41 PM] Ray : what kind of promo split are you thinking of?
  148. [5/5/2014 11:16:47 PM] Ray : I mean, between you and Mike
  149. [5/5/2014 11:16:49 PM] SuMguy : yea. best to sleep on it. 10btc + is a lot
  150. [5/5/2014 11:17:00 PM] Pon Crypto: obviously if it goes to 2 depositors cause Mike left... it won't be worth much
  151. [5/5/2014 11:17:06 PM] Pon Crypto: hahha
  152. [5/5/2014 11:17:11 PM] Ray : right
  153. [5/5/2014 11:17:20 PM] Ray : Mike goes crazy and pumps it
  154. [5/5/2014 11:17:33 PM] SuMguy : game 1 i did 45 only
  155. [5/5/2014 11:17:36 PM] Ray : That 110+ day seems to be close to 85%l Mike, looking at the excel
  156. [5/5/2014 11:17:43 PM] SuMguy : but people in the chat were like OH WOW U SO CRAZY GOING IN
  157. [5/5/2014 11:17:47 PM] SuMguy : cause i was covering their ins
  158. [5/5/2014 11:17:49 PM] Ray : lol
  159. [5/5/2014 11:17:51 PM] SuMguy : till the end when people lost
  160. [5/5/2014 11:17:53 PM] SuMguy : but whatever
  161. [5/5/2014 11:17:56 PM] SuMguy : it was fun
  162. [5/5/2014 11:18:04 PM] SuMguy : that ssrc guy was all mad tweating it
  163. [5/5/2014 11:18:20 PM] SuMguy : but was fun
  164. [5/5/2014 11:18:44 PM] Ray : what kind of promo split did you have in mind Pon crypto?
  165. [5/5/2014 11:19:48 PM] Pon Crypto: like 50/50
  166. [5/5/2014 11:19:50 PM] Pon Crypto: of the round
  167. [5/5/2014 11:20:09 PM] Pon Crypto: like i take 2.5% of total deposits and so do you guys 2.5%
  168. [5/5/2014 11:20:48 PM] Ray : oh i see
  169. [5/5/2014 11:22:01 PM] Pon Crypto: its its 100BTC thats 2.5BTC each
  170. [5/5/2014 11:22:26 PM] Pon Crypto: Best part is if you guys deposit in the beginning... you make even more
  171. [5/5/2014 11:22:36 PM] Ray : haha yeah only problem is to get that kind of buzz, mike would have to be playing himself
  172. [5/5/2014 11:22:40 PM] Ray : and can end up holding the bag haha
  173. [5/5/2014 11:22:50 PM] SuMguy : cant trust that clock
  174. [5/5/2014 11:22:51 PM] SuMguy : lol
  175. [5/5/2014 11:23:13 PM] Pon Crypto: I might have to rewrite something
  176. [5/5/2014 11:23:21 PM] Pon Crypto: its a legit issue though
  177. [5/5/2014 11:23:36 PM] Pon Crypto: I've been trying to figure it out for months
  178. [5/5/2014 11:23:48 PM] Pon Crypto: i tried to figure out how ebay does acutions
  179. [5/5/2014 11:23:51 PM] SuMguy : no refund tho :(
  180. [5/5/2014 11:23:55 PM] Pon Crypto: lol
  181. [5/5/2014 11:24:00 PM] SuMguy : much hate
  182. [5/5/2014 11:24:08 PM] SuMguy : no love
  183. [5/5/2014 11:24:20 PM] Ray : yikes
  184. [5/5/2014 11:24:21 PM] Pon Crypto: I've been trolling ebay to see how they get it to semi accurate
  185. [5/5/2014 11:24:32 PM] Pon Crypto: what about that site.. qbids
  186. [5/5/2014 11:25:17 PM] Pon Crypto: nobody really got it good ... and the "time" in raw transaction is related to block time your instance of bitcoind
  187. [5/5/2014 11:25:33 PM] Pon Crypto: block time or your instance of bitcoind*
  188. [5/5/2014 11:25:34 PM] Ray : you're using the person's system clock for the time?
  189. [5/5/2014 11:25:40 PM] Ray : Seems like that opens up a can of worms
  190. [5/5/2014 11:26:01 PM] Pon Crypto: it sure does but you have to rely on javascript
  191. [5/5/2014 11:26:14 PM] Pon Crypto: to do countdown
  192. [5/5/2014 11:26:25 PM] Pon Crypto: otherwise you got 1000 people polling u for time
  193. [5/5/2014 11:28:53 PM] Ray : do you sync the datetimes of the client's JS with the server time?
  194. [5/5/2014 11:29:36 PM] Pon Crypto: on refresh we feed it from php
  195.  
  196. $data['start_time'] = mktime (18, 0, 0, 3, 29, 2013);
  197. data['end_time'] = mktime (18, 0, 0, 3, 30, 2013);
  198. [5/5/2014 11:30:03 PM] Pon Crypto: but yea i think you are right if we use seconds instead of client time
  199. [5/5/2014 11:30:10 PM] Ray : hmm
  200. [5/5/2014 11:30:12 PM] Pon Crypto: it would be better
  201. [5/5/2014 11:30:43 PM] Ray : I would measure the time a full server roundtrip takes and divide it by two just to get a pretty close idea of the delay, that would give you milliseconds time resolution
  202. [5/5/2014 11:30:57 PM] Ray : and if you wanted something even more exact, without a bigger load
  203. [5/5/2014 11:31:02 PM] Ray : i'd do Date.getTime()
  204. [5/5/2014 11:31:26 PM] Pon Crypto: javascript time then pass back to server to get the offset]
  205. [5/5/2014 11:32:17 PM] Ray : yea, I mean there's a few different ways to approach it but I think the mktime solution would probably be the last choice I'd personally make
  206. [5/5/2014 11:32:45 PM] Ray : you are probably familiar with ServerDate() i'm guessing?
  207. [5/5/2014 11:33:15 PM] Pon Crypto: I think I will do this instead... that means recoding some stuff on front end
  208. $seconds_left = (time() - mktime (18, 0, 0, 3, 29, 2013));
  209. [5/5/2014 11:33:27 PM] Ray : you could use ServerDate's estimate of the server's clock with millisecond time resolution, and then use the locale and use getprecision to see the time difference
  210. [5/5/2014 11:33:57 PM] Ray : ServerDate.toLocaleString() + " ± " + ServerDate.getPrecision() + " ms"
  211. [5/5/2014 11:34:16 PM] Ray : and you could then do ServerDate - new Date() and see the time difference right away in ms
  212. [5/5/2014 11:34:22 PM] Ray : and account for that
  213. [5/5/2014 11:34:30 PM] Ray : that should be no real overhead either
  214. [5/5/2014 11:34:41 PM] Ray : definitely beats polling, with millisecond accuracy
  215. [5/5/2014 11:34:41 PM] Pon Crypto: ServerDAte only works on NODE?
  216. [5/5/2014 11:34:58 PM] Pon Crypto: You need Node.js or PHP running on your web server.
  217. [5/5/2014 11:35:03 PM] Ray : yea
  218. [5/5/2014 11:35:07 PM] Ray : node is really great
  219. [5/5/2014 11:35:09 PM] Pon Crypto: ok so it would work
  220. [5/5/2014 11:35:09 PM] Ray : and easy to work with
  221. [5/5/2014 11:35:16 PM] Ray : i'd really recommend it if you haven't tried it
  222. [5/5/2014 11:35:18 PM] Pon Crypto: yea I use it on new project
  223. [5/5/2014 11:35:23 PM] Pon Crypto: with socket.js
  224. [5/5/2014 11:35:27 PM] Ray : ok, so then its a 5 minute install
  225. [5/5/2014 11:35:29 PM] Pon Crypto: but this stuff is already in php
  226. [5/5/2014 11:35:38 PM] Ray : and ServerDate works with Chrome, Firefox, and Safari out of the box
  227. [5/5/2014 11:36:02 PM] Pon Crypto: you sure you are not a dev?
  228. [5/5/2014 11:36:08 PM] Ray : haha
  229. [5/5/2014 11:36:12 PM] Ray : i just dabble in all kinds of stuff
  230. [5/5/2014 11:36:27 PM] Ray : mike was just telling me about what happened
  231. [5/5/2014 11:36:39 PM] Ray : and it seems like this could take away the headache
  232. [5/5/2014 11:36:39 PM] Pon Crypto: thats unrelated though
  233. [5/5/2014 11:36:48 PM] Ray : if you had finer timer resolution
  234. [5/5/2014 11:36:55 PM] Pon Crypto: ney..
  235. [5/5/2014 11:37:10 PM] Pon Crypto: we did not get a transaction from bitcoind by the time alloted
  236. [5/5/2014 11:37:21 PM] Ray : I mean the clocks being out of sync
  237. [5/5/2014 11:37:26 PM] Ray : between user and server
  238. [5/5/2014 11:37:36 PM] Ray : isn't that where it all begins?
  239. [5/5/2014 11:37:52 PM] Pon Crypto: somewhat... but you are supposed to refresh
  240. [5/5/2014 11:38:04 PM] Pon Crypto: this will fix a lot of stuff
  241. [5/5/2014 11:38:19 PM] Pon Crypto: so will this though
  242. $seconds_left = (time() - mktime (18, 0, 0, 3, 29, 2013));
  243. [5/5/2014 11:38:30 PM] Pon Crypto: i don't think the result will be any diff
  244. [5/5/2014 11:38:58 PM] Pon Crypto: this is all they do
  245. https://github.com/NodeGuy/ServerDate/blob/master/PHP/ServerDate.php
  246. [5/5/2014 11:39:02 PM] Pon Crypto: same thing
  247. [5/5/2014 11:40:14 PM] Pon Crypto: Ah so they do some stuff on javascript to do some offsetting as well
  248. [5/5/2014 11:40:22 PM] Ray : yes
  249. [5/5/2014 11:40:52 PM] Pon Crypto: yea not that bad... it will be more precise
  250. https://github.com/NodeGuy/ServerDate/blob/master/lib/ServerDate.js
  251. [5/5/2014 11:42:31 PM] Ray : alright well time for me to grab some dinner
  252. [5/5/2014 11:42:41 PM] Pon Crypto: same ... lets reconvene tommorow!
  253. [5/5/2014 11:42:48 PM] Ray : but thanks for the chat, and hopefully we can come to some agreement
  254. [5/5/2014 11:42:57 PM] Ray : yep, thanks!
  255. [5/5/2014 11:43:13 PM] SuMguy : yea that was cool, wish i was part of it
  256. [5/5/2014 11:43:14 PM] SuMguy : lol
  257. [5/5/2014 11:43:17 PM] SuMguy : going to bed i guess
  258. [5/5/2014 11:44:02 PM] Pon Crypto: Last thought is I think Ray would be capable on improving on the system and managing it if you guys would take it :)
  259. [5/5/2014 11:44:30 PM] SuMguy : haha. yea. need to sleep on it. 10btc is a lot. but it something to think about
  260. [5/5/2014 11:44:37 PM] SuMguy : i have to get over my losses for the day
  261. [5/5/2014 11:44:42 PM] SuMguy : :P
  262.  
  263.  
  264. [1:12:49 AM] SuMguy : Ray, yea, this will be in the first paragraph
  265. [1:13:08 AM] SuMguy : im grabbing our personal chat, will paste bin that too
  266. [1:13:25 AM] SuMguy : im only pasting this since hes in the room with us still and reading
  267. [1:13:26 AM] SuMguy : LMAO
  268. [1:13:39 AM] Pon Crypto: Nice ...
  269. [1:13:41 AM] Pon Crypto: good job
  270. [1:13:44 AM] SuMguy : haha
  271. [1:13:44 AM] SuMguy : yea
  272. [1:13:49 AM] Pon Crypto: kind of shows what kind of a person you are
  273. [1:13:50 AM] SuMguy : dude, im actually laughing
  274. [1:13:54 AM] SuMguy : yes, it does
  275. [1:13:56 AM] Pon Crypto: revealing private info
  276. [1:13:58 AM] SuMguy : yup
  277. [1:14:04 AM] SuMguy : like i give a shit about u
  278. [1:14:11 AM] Pon Crypto: Cool
  279. [1:14:12 AM] SuMguy : im glad we had our talk
  280. [1:14:22 AM] SuMguy : tell me you are too
  281. [1:14:35 AM] Pon Crypto: I am glad I found out you are an unstable individual with no integrity
  282. [1:14:39 AM] SuMguy : lol
  283. [1:14:46 AM] Pon Crypto: Better sooner then later
  284. [1:14:50 AM] SuMguy : yes
  285. [1:14:51 AM] SuMguy : correct
  286. [1:15:17 AM] Pon Crypto: if this fucks up the site i shut it down
  287. [1:15:20 AM] Pon Crypto: no prob
  288. [1:15:24 AM] SuMguy : cool
  289. [1:15:32 AM] SuMguy : go for it
  290. [1:16:09 AM] SuMguy : this will def fuck up your sites
  291. [1:16:15 AM] Pon Crypto: Thanks bro
  292. [1:16:21 AM] SuMguy : no, thanks to you
  293. [1:16:23 AM] Pon Crypto: Good looking out
  294. [1:16:26 AM] SuMguy : u could have stoppped this LONG time ago
  295. [1:16:37 AM] Pon Crypto: won't be intimidated into paying
  296. [1:16:39 AM] SuMguy : good
  297. [1:16:45 AM] SuMguy : wont be intimidated into not posting this
  298. [1:16:49 AM] SuMguy : stale mate
  299. [1:17:01 AM] SuMguy : you say NO REFUND
  300. [1:17:08 AM] SuMguy : and i say NO NOT POSTING THIS
  301. [1:17:18 AM] SuMguy : meanwhile, i wasnt even hounding you
  302. [1:17:29 AM] Pon Crypto: insane
  303. [1:17:40 AM] SuMguy : my name is mike j
  304. [1:17:50 AM] Pon Crypto: I feel like I am dealing with a teenager
  305. [1:18:05 AM] SuMguy : i was going to say i feel like im dealing with a theif but.. well.. u know
  306. [1:18:37 AM] SuMguy : so, question. u said you would see me in toronto. is this before or after u close the site?
  307. [1:18:46 AM] SuMguy : or like enroute
  308. [1:18:54 AM] SuMguy : need to plan my day
  309. [1:19:06 AM] SuMguy : or should i love over my shoulder for the angry dev
  310. [1:19:06 AM] Pon Crypto: Hopefully at a convention or something
  311. [1:19:13 AM] SuMguy : yea, hopefully
  312. [1:19:16 AM] Pon Crypto: So we can have a beer
  313. [1:19:20 AM] SuMguy : no thanks
  314. [1:19:30 AM] Pon Crypto: Your buying
  315. [1:19:45 AM] SuMguy : you have my money remember
  316. [1:19:47 AM] SuMguy : i cant afford it
  317. [1:19:48 AM] SuMguy : :(
  318. [1:19:55 AM] SuMguy : and now u will shut downt he site and scam more people
  319. [1:20:11 AM] SuMguy : cept the people u release the addy to fast so they can console send in like -1 second
  320. [1:20:28 AM] SuMguy : im not judging bro, its cool
  321. [1:20:31 AM] Pon Crypto: lol
  322. [1:20:39 AM] Pon Crypto: u just went full retard
  323. [1:20:52 AM] SuMguy : you started messaging me about my reply to some dude on a forum
  324. [1:21:04 AM] SuMguy : then you cut and pate like 50x . lol
  325. [1:21:14 AM] Pon Crypto: i just assessed the last 6 hours of my life
  326. [1:21:17 AM] Pon Crypto: and it sucked
  327. [1:21:19 AM] SuMguy : yea
  328. [1:21:22 AM] SuMguy : youre right
  329. [1:21:26 AM] SuMguy : making poor choices
  330. [1:21:26 AM] Pon Crypto: you told me you ran a forum so you understand
  331. [1:21:30 AM] SuMguy : yup
  332. [1:21:32 AM] SuMguy : poor choices
  333. [1:21:33 AM] SuMguy : i told you
  334. [1:21:37 AM] SuMguy : i would have refunded
  335. [1:21:40 AM] SuMguy : after you sked
  336. [1:21:42 AM] SuMguy : asked
  337. [1:21:46 AM] SuMguy : you said, and i quote
  338. [1:21:48 AM] SuMguy : NO REFUND
  339. [1:21:49 AM] SuMguy : lol
  340. [1:21:57 AM] Pon Crypto: and then refund everyone else as well
  341. [1:22:05 AM] SuMguy : i dont care about anyone else
  342. [1:22:06 AM] Pon Crypto: just run the game out of my own pocket
  343. [1:22:09 AM] SuMguy : no
  344. [1:22:11 AM] Pon Crypto: thats the problem
  345. [1:22:13 AM] SuMguy : u run it out of the peoples pockets
  346. [1:22:14 AM] Pon Crypto: you think to small
  347. [1:22:39 AM] SuMguy : nope. if your life sucked in the last 6 hours, then you should fix that
  348. [1:23:21 AM] SuMguy : rather than being mad at a guy who willingly removed a thread BEFORE any potential sale and never even ripped on you in your main thread. Sorry man, not sure what you expect me to say or do for you, a guy who doesnt flex
  349. [1:23:49 AM] SuMguy : had you refunded because you knew there was an error, this shit would be over with
  350. [1:24:23 AM] Pon Crypto: Dude if I got a hot chick to tell you there is no refunds would it help?
  351. [1:24:48 AM] SuMguy : nope, because i know u would have paid her with that .3 i sent
  352. [1:24:55 AM] SuMguy : and i would feel even more sad inside
  353. [1:25:08 AM] SuMguy : let me ask you this....
  354. [1:25:15 AM] SuMguy : do you think telling me you will close the site down impacts me?
  355. [1:25:27 AM] Pon Crypto: ney ur prolly happy
  356. [1:25:27 AM] SuMguy : you said it best, last 6 hours
  357. [1:25:33 AM] SuMguy : why would i be happy?
  358. [1:25:48 AM] SuMguy : *prepares himself*
  359. [1:25:52 AM] Pon Crypto: I dunno ... it would align with other malicious shit you say
  360. [1:25:59 AM] SuMguy : ahh
  361. [1:26:21 AM] SuMguy : ok, now what
  362. [1:26:26 AM] SuMguy : what is the end game here
  363. [1:26:34 AM] SuMguy : you said your time is valuable and your life sucks
  364. [1:26:38 AM] SuMguy : or the last 6 horus
  365. [1:26:41 AM] SuMguy : lets fix that
  366. [1:26:41 AM] Pon Crypto: one of us falls asleep
  367. [1:26:52 AM] Pon Crypto: life gets better in the morning
  368. [1:26:57 AM] SuMguy : yea, perhaps sleep
  369. [1:27:01 AM] SuMguy : just dont read the forum in the morning
  370. [1:27:03 AM] Pon Crypto: you mourn .3BTC I mourn loss of time
  371. [1:27:12 AM] SuMguy : i mourn being scammed
  372. [1:27:15 AM] Pon Crypto: and possibly game
  373. [1:27:25 AM] SuMguy : yea, i think ur game is done when this gets posted
  374. [1:27:28 AM] SuMguy : but maybe not
  375. [1:27:30 AM] SuMguy : hard to say
  376. [1:27:37 AM] SuMguy : people react all crazy on the net, you know that
  377. [1:29:21 AM] SuMguy : heres the thing, if you refunded me now i wouldnt post the discussion. i would still not play your game and I would advise others not too if they asked. I would like say the last minute is a scam and the site could be shut down anytime. And really, thats it. I dont care about the site the way you do. I was enjoying the game. You are unhappy, im not a shrink. Dont be sad, be happy you can make something cool and legit and refund people that do get jacked by flaws. Its the right thing to do, its business.
  378. [1:29:56 AM] Pon Crypto: so you are dense
  379. [1:30:01 AM] SuMguy : lol
  380. [1:30:30 AM] Pon Crypto: which of the two words did you not understand... the "no" or the "refund"
  381. [1:30:54 AM] SuMguy : which do you like more. Paste or Bin?
  382. [1:31:06 AM] SuMguy : ;)
  383. [1:31:22 AM] SuMguy : lol. i mean, you told me your life sucks
  384. [1:31:26 AM] SuMguy : thats sad right there
  385. [1:31:28 AM] SuMguy : im trying to guide you
  386. [1:31:37 AM] Pon Crypto: my life is great... besides wasting time on this
  387. [1:31:48 AM] Pon Crypto: but I guess I can learn something from it
  388. [1:31:49 AM] SuMguy : so then, stop wasting time. stop messaging
  389. [1:32:08 AM] SuMguy : people will see that bad feed back is enough for you to close a site. thats bad press man
  390. [1:32:10 AM] SuMguy : :/
  391. [1:32:18 AM] SuMguy : its like
  392. [1:32:22 AM] SuMguy : what is .3 worth to u
  393. [1:32:28 AM] Pon Crypto: the feedback is already theare
  394. [1:32:32 AM] SuMguy : nope
  395. [1:32:37 AM] SuMguy : feed back is just about to begin
  396. [1:32:52 AM] SuMguy : my words dont mean anything, its the chat logs that say a lot
  397. [1:32:58 AM] SuMguy : your words
  398. [1:33:02 AM] Pon Crypto: mostly about you
  399. [1:33:08 AM] SuMguy : yes, about me
  400. [1:33:12 AM] SuMguy : lol
  401. [1:34:28 AM] Pon Crypto: Its not real leverage and I am not worried... I am just wondering if we can resolve the conflict somehow or the business potential got spoiled by your lack of integrity
  402. [1:34:43 AM] SuMguy : refund ALL my entries
  403. [1:34:46 AM] SuMguy : otherwise
  404. [1:34:48 AM] SuMguy : no thanks
  405. [1:34:49 AM] SuMguy : fuck it
  406. [1:34:50 AM] Pon Crypto: I genuinely curious
  407. [1:35:16 AM] SuMguy : but it is laughable that you think it can be solved. i told you. refund the .3
  408. [1:35:18 AM] SuMguy : and you said...
  409. [1:35:23 AM] SuMguy : say it one more time
  410. [1:35:25 AM] SuMguy : im dense
  411. [1:35:41 AM] SuMguy : i did half the work for you, lined it up. just say it already
  412. [1:35:51 AM] Pon Crypto: you are pretty funny guy
  413. [1:35:54 AM] SuMguy : yup
  414. [1:36:26 AM] Pon Crypto: are you just chilling these days or you actually have a day job?
  415. [1:36:33 AM] SuMguy : chill
  416. [1:36:38 AM] SuMguy : thanks for asking
  417. [1:36:43 AM] Pon Crypto: did your exit allow you to retire permanently?
  418. [1:36:55 AM] SuMguy : yea, lets discuss this now
  419. [1:37:04 AM] SuMguy : lol
  420. [1:37:06 AM] Pon Crypto: I am curious to understand you
  421. [1:37:16 AM] SuMguy : PLEASE INSERT .3 BTC HERE
  422. [1:37:19 AM] SuMguy : lol
  423. [1:37:27 AM] SuMguy : nothing to understand
  424. [1:37:30 AM] Pon Crypto: i understand that part
  425. [1:37:35 AM] SuMguy : you are tryin to angle every part of it
  426. [1:37:41 AM] SuMguy : with rage, self pitty
  427. [1:37:54 AM] Pon Crypto: me?
  428. [1:38:09 AM] SuMguy : i was going to ask if youre dense, but stopped myself
  429. [1:38:15 AM] SuMguy : didnt seem like my style
  430. [1:38:25 AM] Pon Crypto: you are describing yourself... it seems
  431. [1:38:46 AM] SuMguy : question, so had i came to you privately you would have redunded me perhaps?
  432. [1:38:53 AM] SuMguy : trying to understand the pm
  433. [1:39:15 AM] Pon Crypto: yea before 30 posts... we would have discussed and see what is possible
  434. [1:39:20 AM] SuMguy : ahhh
  435. [1:39:28 AM] SuMguy : so this is my punishment
  436. [1:39:33 AM] Pon Crypto: no
  437. [1:39:49 AM] SuMguy : if you are mad at others, you should rage at them
  438. [1:40:08 AM] Pon Crypto: what makes you seem I am raging?
  439. [1:40:36 AM] SuMguy : well, didnt think the "See you in toronto" meant you were bringing me hotcakes :/
  440. [1:40:52 AM] Pon Crypto: That got to you
  441. [1:40:57 AM] SuMguy : ok but really
  442. [1:41:00 AM] SuMguy : clock is 1:40
  443. [1:41:01 AM] Pon Crypto: I meant like see you Tommorow
  444. [1:41:04 AM] SuMguy : in canada
  445. [1:41:06 AM] Pon Crypto: cause its late
  446. [1:41:29 AM] SuMguy : so you have 20 minutes to figure it out. or else i just post and go watch tv
  447. [1:41:39 AM] SuMguy : all on you
  448. [1:41:42 AM] SuMguy : best of luck
  449. [1:41:43 AM] Pon Crypto: What are you going to watch?
  450. [1:41:53 AM] SuMguy : btcpile implode
  451. [1:42:01 AM] SuMguy : that was good right?
  452. [1:42:09 AM] SuMguy : i laughed at my own joke
  453. [1:42:15 AM] SuMguy : lol
  454. [1:42:23 AM] SuMguy : see, we are like bros
  455. [1:42:30 AM] SuMguy : im out .150 stolen btc
  456. [1:42:40 AM] SuMguy : and you will be out a site after all that hard work with all your costly time
  457. [1:42:51 AM] Pon Crypto: to be honest i care more about conflict resolution then you posting crap
  458. [1:43:03 AM] Pon Crypto: you can post it now but we can continue chatting
  459. [1:43:09 AM] SuMguy : nope
  460. [1:43:11 AM] SuMguy : ill post when ready
  461. [1:43:27 AM] Pon Crypto: make sense... don't ruin your chance of getting the BTC out
  462. [1:43:41 AM] Pon Crypto: cause if people don't play... your BTC is stuck
  463. [1:43:44 AM] SuMguy : ur a scammer, prolly shut down the site. saidso yourself
  464. [1:43:56 AM] Pon Crypto: post quote
  465. [1:44:00 AM] SuMguy : post log
  466. [1:44:11 AM] SuMguy : 16 minutes
  467. [1:44:20 AM] SuMguy : you are interferring with my post
  468. [1:44:24 AM] Pon Crypto: so seriously the forum exit got you at least like 500K or so?
  469. [1:44:31 AM] SuMguy : So, had an interesting skype chat with my friend out of MTL Canada, fellow Canadian at that.
  470.  
  471. What happened to me is a known flaw and something hes known about for a month but it doesnt matter. From the sounds of our discussion this is just how it goes in his world.
  472. [1:44:34 AM] SuMguy : this is where i am at
  473. [1:44:37 AM] SuMguy : actually, theres more
  474. [1:44:38 AM] SuMguy : its a surprise
  475. [1:44:44 AM] SuMguy : but leaking the info
  476. [1:44:59 AM] SuMguy : its a start right?
  477. [1:45:17 AM] SuMguy : what do u value ur time at these days
  478. [1:46:26 AM] SuMguy : anyhow, you have 15 minutes to decide if you want to refund me, the thread will get cleaned up and we can all continue enjoying the fruits of the game or we can just chalk this up to a PR learning experience and see where it goes
  479. [1:46:35 AM] SuMguy : either way, clocks a ticking
  480. [1:46:37 AM] SuMguy : :)
  481. [1:47:06 AM] Pon Crypto: I really dislike to be threatened.
  482. [1:47:47 AM] Pon Crypto: I don't think anybody likes it
  483. [1:48:24 AM] SuMguy : understand
  484. [1:48:26 AM] SuMguy : it sucks
  485. [1:48:39 AM] SuMguy : you had a good thing going and everyone enjoyed it
  486. [1:48:44 AM] Pon Crypto: Anyway bashing game is one thing, doxing private conversation is another.
  487. [1:48:48 AM] SuMguy : yea
  488. [1:48:50 AM] SuMguy : youre right
  489. [1:48:56 AM] Pon Crypto: I don't care about the contents
  490. [1:48:57 AM] SuMguy : i just want the refund and the game to continue
  491. [1:49:19 AM] SuMguy : but theres 11 minutes to decide, i have things to do
  492. [1:49:37 AM] SuMguy : and if you dont close the site down things remain
  493. [1:49:53 AM] Pon Crypto: So do I Mike, so do I
  494. [1:50:12 AM] SuMguy : see, the thing is i have nothing to lose, you got it
  495. [1:50:30 AM] SuMguy : im just trying to become whole again Pon Crypto
  496. [1:50:35 AM] Pon Crypto: Everybody has something to lose
  497. [1:50:51 AM] SuMguy : i feel bad that this isnt resolving and at 2pm i have obligations
  498. [1:50:54 AM] SuMguy : am rather
  499. [1:56:57 AM] Ray : woah
  500. [1:57:00 AM] Ray : i just got back
  501. [1:57:02 AM] Ray : this blew up
  502. [1:57:34 AM] Pon Crypto: Yep Ray ... your buddy wants to DOX all the conversation on the forum
  503. [1:57:43 AM] Pon Crypto: if I don't pay him back .3 BTC
  504. [1:57:47 AM] Ray: man this scrollbar is way too long for me to scroll up and read
  505. [1:58:15 AM] Pon Crypto: TLDR ... I must refund him or he posts all the info he gathered in this Skype convo
  506. [1:58:25 AM] Pon Crypto: Sneaky stuff
  507. [1:58:30 AM] Ray : ah..i see
  508. [1:59:26 AM] Ray : and where are you on the refund front? Are you still 100% completely opposed to it? I am thinking maybe you guys can come to some amicable solution regarding the refund...it looks like this is a PR nightmare and I'm sure neither one of you is happy with the outcome so far
  509. [1:59:52 AM] Pon Crypto: I was very upfront about refund
  510. [2:00:06 AM] Pon Crypto: And even offered a chance to get BTC back by splitting round commision
  511. [2:01:12 AM] Ray : That's not a bad idea either
  512. [2:01:26 AM] Ray : but I'm just thinking from both of your guys perspective
  513. [2:01:37 AM] Ray : if you were do a split commission deal, what would you be paying out?
  514. [2:01:47 AM] Ray : Wouldn't it be something more than the .3 btc he's asking for?
  515. [2:01:58 AM] Ray : trying to be impartial here, just wondering whats the best outcome for you guys both
  516. [2:02:05 AM] Pon Crypto: depends how big the round goes
  517. [2:02:17 AM] Pon Crypto: it is 2.5% of the round for help with promotion
  518. [2:02:45 AM] Ray : As it stands, I looked over the thread and it seems like your site may be in the dumps from that thread...not saying its good or bad or anything, just saying that the public image has taken a thrashing
  519. [2:03:18 AM] Pon Crypto: I have a strict no refund policy for a simple reason... same as casinos... once you open that gate ... its over
  520. [2:03:47 AM] Pon Crypto: And I have refunded people when this just started... quietly and in private messages
  521. [2:03:53 AM] Ray : Mike's my friend, but even if he wasn't, if I was in your shoes, i would have given the refund, asked for the thread to be cleaned up, asked for some promotion, and kept everyone happy. Your losses were tiny comparatively and I don't think thats just my opinion
  522. [2:04:31 AM] Pon Crypto: We will speak after you get 100 refund requests :)
  523. [2:04:41 AM] Ray : Look, man, I don't know your name but you can't just have a 100% no refunds policy, I mean, sure its great to say you have that as the first response, but in reality if you're running a business, sweating the refunds is not looking at the big picture
  524. [2:04:52 AM] Ray : your bottom line is all that should matter
  525. [2:05:00 AM] Ray : and you're missing the forest for the trees
  526. [2:05:24 AM] Pon Crypto: There is no refunds in gambling games ever
  527. [2:05:33 AM] Ray : There's regulation in gambling games, however
  528. [2:05:37 AM] Ray : You'd agree?
  529. [2:05:46 AM] Pon Crypto: Its a special kind of business with special kind of customers
  530. [2:05:48 AM] Ray : Your game has no regulation, so to draw parallels is dishonest, somewhat
  531. [2:06:15 AM] Pon Crypto: On our game it says... consider your money lost
  532. [2:06:22 AM] Ray : Right
  533. [2:06:27 AM] Pon Crypto: so ...
  534. [2:06:34 AM] Ray : Your game also says some BS about testing payment methods which please don't tell me is the truth
  535. [2:06:45 AM] Ray : That's just a feel good premise for what the main purpose is
  536. [2:06:52 AM] Ray : but regardless of that
  537. [2:06:55 AM] Ray : I don't even care
  538. [2:06:57 AM] Pon Crypto: Actually it is the truth
  539. [2:07:15 AM] Pon Crypto: And I mentioned before in this thead we are starting a payment processor
  540. [2:07:57 AM] Pon Crypto: Look Ray I think its fair to say that you can not be imperial :)
  541. [2:07:59 AM] Ray : All I'm saying is maybe refund him and get him to clean up the thread. Your loss will be .3 BTC total. Alternative is that you don't refund him (which is your right obviously), and he's upset and your losses will be more than 0.3 BTC if he's upset and tells his friends to never play and makes a big stink about it
  542. [2:08:14 AM] Pon Crypto: impartial*
  543. [2:08:21 AM] Ray : I'm probably not impartial, I agree, but what I see is an impasse that neither of you can see past
  544. [2:08:44 AM] Ray : You think you're winning by not refunding the 0.3 BTC, and I'm saying you'll lose more just because an upset customer tells 10 others
  545. [2:08:49 AM] Pon Crypto: Dude you can not be impartial in anyway.. I am random dude online.. this guys is your buddy
  546. [2:08:55 AM] Ray : That's not some threat or anything dumb like that, its just how stuff works
  547. [2:09:11 AM] Ray : I agree that I can't be impartial
  548. [2:09:32 AM] Ray : but I think if you listen to what I'm saying, rather than viewing me with a bias, you'll hear what I'm saying is true
  549. [2:10:29 AM] Ray : also, although I'm just a stranger online to you, I've known Mike for years and I would personally vouch for him and say that the idea of him trying to scam someone for $150 is ridiculous. But Mike is very much about the principle of a matter
  550. [2:10:39 AM] Pon Crypto: So lets sum it up
  551. 1. Guy and buddy bash game publicly while ... the disclaimer clearly states "its a gamble"
  552. 2. Guy threatens to post private chat logs
  553.  
  554. where does this motivate me to refund?
  555. [2:11:14 AM] Ray : I don't think we will get anywhere if you write things like that
  556. [2:11:22 AM] Ray : I was thinking you guys wanted to work towards some middle ground
  557. [2:11:37 AM] Ray : Either one of you guys can play extremes
  558. [2:11:39 AM] Pon Crypto: Middle ground is me refunding?
  559. [2:11:41 AM] Ray : but its counterproductive
  560. [2:12:17 AM] Ray : Middle ground would be, in my opinion, a partial refund along with Mike cleaning up the thread, stating that it was a misunderstanding that you were quick to address in private and that he will continue to play the game
  561. [2:12:18 AM] Pon Crypto: I never played extremes.. I contacted mike for a chat after he gave me his Skype to see if I can do something for him .... without refund
  562. [2:13:46 AM] Ray : Anyways, thats just my opinion
  563. [2:14:26 AM] Ray : if you are firm about not agreeing to any sort of refund, and Mike is firm about airing his dissatisfaction with the service, then I'm not of much use here
  564. [2:15:23 AM] Ray : I was hoping we could eventually make a website deal, but this $150 seems to have done more damage than $150 usually does, and much in the same vein I feel the $150 that you are keeping as a business owner, may do more damage to your revenue stream than $150 usually does
  565. [2:16:04 AM] Pon Crypto: When we last spoke.. we said we are going to sleep on the deal.. there was no mention of refund anywhere
  566. [2:16:07 AM] Ray : haha its not even $150 actually at current market
  567. [2:16:20 AM] Pon Crypto: then this guy goes full retard with threatening to post logs
  568. [2:16:42 AM] Pon Crypto: hardly somebody that can be trusted or is a stable
  569. [2:16:54 AM] Ray : well he's upset, but whatever
  570. [2:17:01 AM] Pon Crypto: whats the deal with bipolarity though?
  571. [2:17:09 AM] Ray : Are you a trained clinician?
  572. [2:17:16 AM] Pon Crypto: Yes
  573. [2:17:24 AM] Pon Crypto: I actually have PsyD
  574. [2:17:42 AM] Ray : That's what guys who fail out of vet school get :P
  575. [2:17:46 AM] Ray : just kidding
  576. [2:17:55 AM] Ray : but seriously, a PsyD is not a medical degree
  577. [2:17:58 AM] Pon Crypto: not that I am using it
  578. [2:18:10 AM] Pon Crypto: In clinical phyciatry
  579. [2:18:34 AM] Ray : Its for psychology
  580. [2:18:36 AM] Ray : not psychiatry
  581. [2:18:44 AM] Ray : you should know that if you have a PsyD
  582. [2:18:47 AM] Ray : but anyways
  583. [2:19:05 AM] Pon Crypto: I am now studying for an MD
  584. [2:19:20 AM] Ray : Nice
  585. [2:19:27 AM] Ray : I am an MD
  586. [2:19:38 AM] Pon Crypto: I know a lot of MD that end up doing IT
  587. [2:20:12 AM] Pon Crypto: They are usually way better then the guys who did BS in CS
  588. [2:20:29 AM] Pon Crypto: Espcially unix and core type stuff
  589. [2:20:36 AM] Ray : However its academically dishonest of you to claim that your PsyD affords you the rights to claim you're a trained clinician, if a medical student applicant acted like that in front of me I'd never give them a green light for admissions
  590. [2:20:53 AM] Ray : But anyways, see how online people can say things they don't really mean
  591. [2:20:55 AM] Pon Crypto: It is pretencious
  592. [2:21:01 AM] Ray : It is factually inaccurate
  593. [2:21:12 AM] Pon Crypto: Like the timestamp on a transaction
  594. [2:21:47 AM] Ray : I don't believe you and me ever had any contentious discussion about any timestamps
  595. [2:21:51 AM] Pon Crypto: like timestamp on blockchain.info varies with timestamp of your bitcoind
  596. [2:22:02 AM] Ray : In fact, our only conversation about timestamps was me trying to help you improve your programming
  597. [2:22:17 AM] Pon Crypto: the dead horse kind of floated up so I wanted to beat on it a bit
  598. [2:22:59 AM] Ray : Anyways, I think we can say this discussion isn't very beneficial to either of us so maybe we should just end the conversation
  599. [2:23:43 AM] Ray : My friend feels cheated, and you feel like you did nothing wrong, and without any middle ground, we should just accept that's that and you keep the BTC and he complains about it online
  600. [2:23:59 AM] Ray : I don't see any other resolution here. Do you?
  601. [2:25:12 AM] Pon Crypto: I just hoped since you were a voice of reason and technically sound you would at least understand that ... the program did not catch transaction before the cut off time and it has nothing to do with clock or not... that program works on server time.
  602. [2:25:48 AM] Pon Crypto: its a cron.. it runs at 7pm sharp... if there is no transactions to collect it ends game and pays double to last person recorded
  603. [2:26:06 AM] Ray : I understand that, but what my understanding of Mike's position is that he feels the rules are vague, contradictory, and incomplete at best.
  604. [2:26:28 AM] Ray : And if I'm not wrong, by your admission, you state that there is room for improvement in this regard
  605. [2:26:32 AM] Pon Crypto: Is the part about "Please do not play it if you are not ready to lose the coins. We don't know which last transaction gets recorded its systematic. "
  606. [2:26:44 AM] Pon Crypto: is that vague?
  607. [2:27:05 AM] Ray : That part doesn't seem to address that the game would still indicate it is running when the last CRON of that game has already finished though.
  608. [2:27:09 AM] Pon Crypto: sounds like we are pretty clear at discouraging people to play
  609. [2:27:25 AM] Ray : You state that you won't know the order of the transactions because of the CRON process. That's fair and I agree.
  610. [2:27:43 AM] Ray : What isn't stated is that there could be 55 seconds left on the game clock and the last CRON has already ran and no further CRONs will be run.
  611. [2:27:55 AM] Pon Crypto: Its not the order... its which are recored and which are not
  612. [2:28:27 AM] Pon Crypto: if bitcoind does not hear a transaction before cut off time... how can we record it at game end?
  613. [2:28:39 AM] Pon Crypto: we control ... game start by revealing address
  614. [2:28:54 AM] Pon Crypto: but game end ... the address remains... we really can't control it
  615. [2:29:09 AM] Ray : Right, I understand that part
  616. [2:29:24 AM] Pon Crypto: people can send us a transaction tomorrow... on old addresses
  617. [2:29:38 AM] Pon Crypto: or a month from now... we cant stop it
  618. [2:30:29 AM] Ray : What I don't think you're understanding is that your perception of the clarity of your FAQ and your users' perception of the clarity of your FAQ are not the same. I'm not saying either one of you is 100% right or 100% wrong, I'm just suggesting you guys figure out some middle ground, but that would involve you refunding something to him, and since you're saying that isn't an option, I'm saying I give up, and let's just forget about it....unless you have an alternative?
  619. [2:30:38 AM] Pon Crypto: Also we can't be held accountable for transit time and speed of client
  620. [2:30:51 AM] Ray : Everytime I ask you for an alternative you go back to saying you're 100% right, and if that's how you feel, then you don't have an alternative and we should just end this
  621. [2:30:56 AM] Pon Crypto: If it takes 20 seconds for transaction to get to our bitcoind
  622. [2:31:29 AM] Pon Crypto: The part to figure out middle ground would be reasonable if mike contacted me prior to going nuts
  623. [2:31:37 AM] Ray : That ship has sailed my man
  624. [2:31:41 AM] Ray : Talk about now
  625. [2:31:59 AM] Pon Crypto: And now that ship has sailed
  626. [2:32:09 AM] Pon Crypto: Not much I can do but explain how the system works
  627. [2:32:16 AM] Ray : Alright, fair enough
  628. [2:32:57 AM] Ray : I think its best that you just keep the transaction and Mike just do what he thinks is right for him
  629. [2:33:39 AM] Pon Crypto: Ive been patient at explaining to him and his half brained cronies who do no know what a confirmation is or bother to care about the limitations and speed of the payment they are using
  630. [2:33:56 AM] Ray : I find a conversation works best without insults :)
  631. [2:33:59 AM] Pon Crypto: He has been fine until recently
  632. [2:34:18 AM] Pon Crypto: His cronies are half brained... its just a fact ... PsyD
  633. [2:34:40 AM] Pon Crypto: I think he is a smart guy... but I question his ethics ... as I am sure he questions mine
  634. [2:35:08 AM] Ray : Anyways, I'll wish you good luck with the site and the MD. Please don't claim you're a clinician of any sort until you've put in the hard work that a real MD invests! It's dishonest to claim you have any medical training! But hopefully one day you will. :)
  635. [2:35:31 AM] Pon Crypto: I don't know if I will make it through med school...
  636. [2:35:42 AM] Pon Crypto: there may no be enough caffeine in the world
  637. [2:36:15 AM] Pon Crypto: Do you practice btw?
  638. [2:37:13 AM] Ray : Yes I do, anyways, I will be off for now, will keep an eye on that bitcointalk thread, hope stuff works out.
  639. [2:50:04 AM] *** Ray1133156a has left ***
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