Paste of a chat conversation, by Shroom

<Shroom> excuse me but you guys can't be serious with this
seriously, I've learned a lot and I've gotten a lot of your monologue, and I AM willing to go this hard path, but now I'm in an opposite mood from all of a sudden
I could move on, they don't really want to move on; so many complaints they have about me also apply to them as well at least
you gave me your blessing to talk stuff to you and only you, and I've requested a demotion for Raz and MK because I have seen an undeniably bad development long enough, yeah, that was a revolutionary and uncomfortable request, though I've simply had to get off my chest what has accumulatedly clogged up over several weeks
and I surely don't have a significantly bigger part of the blame than them in terms of the recent escalations, currently I'm not even willing to respond to MK's wall of messages anymore, I can't prevent the vicious spiral of them stirring drama and aggressiveness anyway
look at the April Fools preparation, all I did was doing my work and I've told them that they can delete my stuff if they have something wrong with it (I didn't even make things up, I just copied their exact messages they've sent back then in the Staff Chat) ... and if I hadn't contributed to the April Fools organization, or if I never was given permissions to the FoA, we wouldn't currently have this trouble, or what? It's really a baaaaad teaching that I should have given them back straight away on the first day
and sometimes, if you're saying you're outvoted, no, rationality is superior to a crowd of people whose primary goal is vengeance (or at least getting rid of the person they refuse to deal with); I don't know if they all bothered to read your monologue and to understand my part of the discussion at least a bit ... oh, I'd wish the most that there was no Raz and his friends at all
now I say, if you want to apply justice for everyone, you have two options: demote all three or demote noone, but the former is terrible, I doubt that you can fill all holes; and btw <Nin-tan> "there are two ways to lessen a gap between two extremes: cut off the connection completely and let time work peacefully, or encourage interaction and let time work with risks and complications" ... yeah, you've clearly stated that you wholeheartenedly prefer the latter one
and generally I've said that I cannot be replaced equivalently; overall I was already on a good track to guide the site and the users towards better development, even if that sometimes doesn't work frictionlessly; and yeah, I'm representing rational and progressive thinking in a team which is heavily memes-impregnated
but if you really come to demote me and only me, it will also bring a diplomatic breakoff between you and me because it really is not the right thing to do, you cannot laud my intention "evil must die" and then kill the good (and jsyk, there will also be several signs of mourning as well, such as shutting down my Wikia biography)
Shroom
Today at 10:01 AM
furthermore, if it really comes so far, then it's REALLY not my site anymore (read as: then it's really not worthy that I take care about it and I will eventually boycott various things, e.g. responding in Welcome topics, judging LDCs and maintaining statistics and such - yeah, the message is: I'm also someone you can blow it with)
the entirety of it would only have bad consequences, apart from Bryce I can't think of any regular member who would want my demotion as well, yet I can imagine of at least a handful who would be just as shocked as myself

<Shroom> 2:40 PM (and speaking of Bryce, yeah, don't you agree anyway that Raz, MK, nin, brando, FF, OJ quite automatically judge his words completely as right and sacred without exegesis)
I'd like to know your and only your opinion about the points he has raised, and if they can also be applied for Raz and Co.; you've got the Pastebin; and I quote your own words - "perhaps we HAVE been trying to hold him to a higher standard than we have been able to live up to ourselves" - you can scratch the "perhaps", and being abandoned by the Internet so many times when it comes to translating idioms 1:1 doesn't make things any easier, yes, I often like to use metaphors and hyperboles, that's the good old Cicero school
and especially for the victimization part I leave a clear message: Usually I'm not victimizing myself, I am being victimized and bullied, and generally, if I feel badly treated, and often enough I am badly treated, I demand the right to defend myself, everyone has this right

<Shroom> 2:19 PM calling out a victim for victimizing themselves is utterly beneath contempt
I'm not even the first one with this fate, remember how badly Worst_master and ScardySquaril were bullied until they collapsed and fell over it; and on SMBX Quill was also demoted only for dissensions with Joey (message: we're very close to reaching SMBX circumstances)
and remember darthbrowser's words for me: "Power. Every social hierarchy needs power plays. You were crucified, publicly, for disagreeing with the moderation elite. Your arguments were never addressed. [url=http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/]Every response they gave you fits neatly into one of these logical fallacies[/url]
and remember your own words: "We are not running a prison here" - in terms of becoming more open-minded and more welcoming towards new members, I've rendered significant services in these not-even-2-months
before you go about me having become heavily abusive with these words, I've been completely flabbergasted where I've already pretended my position would be safe again

<Doram 2:56 PM> I tell you in all honesty. I am sorry. I may be the man at top, but I refuse to run a dictatorship. This is a democracy, and I have been outvoted. Yes, sometimes democracy fails. It's one of the biggest complaints against democracy. Frankly, I have been feeling beaten down by a lot of stuff lately, and this is a crushing blow. I hope you can believe me when I say that I feel just as bad about this as you. I am sorry. But overriding them and keeping you would be violating the very things I am fighting for. I am sorry.
I am absolutely planning on telling them that I am disappointed in all of them over this, but I need to gather some emotional strength before I do, because my desire to lash out is just too great, and I refuse to let that rule me.
I am so sorry.
I have failed you. We all have.

<Doram 3:05 PM> My only advice is to go and put your energies into being a good lemon over at the LL site, and just let all of this go. I know that feels impossible right now, but let me tell you from a deep well of experiece, disaster and failure happen, and it is just a part of life. You have a choice. The choice is to let it hold you back, or let it drive you forward. Let this drive you forward. keep trying and learning. Keep an open mind and heart, and hope beyond hope that it will get better. 99% of the time that has worked very well for me, and I apologize for you hitting that 1% with this.
The one rock that I can cling to in times like this, is my complete and absolute belief that everything happens for a reason.  That the gods ahve a larger plan up there, and this is for the greater good, and I just can't see it right now.

<Shroom 3:08 PM> "now I say, if you want to apply justice for everyone, you have two options: demote all three or demote noone" ... okay, rather mercy than justice for MK since he has still acknowledged some things, but Raz probably hasn't, and in the end both sides share the blame
at least I would ask you to put Raz back to SR and bump Ven to mod, even if it leaves the purple force as a wasteland
yeah, maybe things will turn out well in the end, yet this is a blowback that origined through a very miserable way

<Doram 3:10 PM> Well, my point is that sometimes justice fails. This is one of those times.

<Shroom 3:10 PM> you're in the strongest position

<Doram 3:10 PM> But I am not a dictator./

<Shroom 3:10 PM> Raz is in a position where he clearly doesn't serve us well, or at least worse than Ven

<Doram 3:11 PM> I don't get to tell everyone to shut up and just do what I say.

<Shroom 3:11 PM> sometimes you should also be a dictator if it clearly serves for the good
BY has also said this: Sometimes no ifs and no buts

<Doram 3:11 PM> No, I know from hard and BITTER experience, that dictatorship NEVER is the best way.

<Shroom 3:12 PM> anyway, I won't try to produce a break of diplomacy with you now

<Doram 3:12 PM> I have tried to dictate, andI have been dictated to, and it is always a greater failure.

<Shroom 3:12 PM> ... and can I at least get the next LDC?

<Doram 3:12 PM> I will see. I am pretty sure there HAS been precedence for a regular user hosting.
I don't think it will be the next one, but perhaps in a month when the next after that starts.

<Shroom 3:17 PM> is it still possible to keep a few permissions? such as reading mod logs and also reading staff chat logs a la Bryce?
also by no means promote Bryce, he'll only lead us further into memes and tighter mindsets
this is tragic enough

<Doram 3:19 PM> No, I'm not gonna shuffle anything else around right now.
This one thing is enough to handle for right now.

<Shroom 3:19 PM> RIP, this brings me to tears
I don't regard myself as having failed, still
in name only at most

<Doram 3:20 PM> The only true failure is giving up.

<Shroom 3:20 PM> the whole "experimental" thing was bullshit and misinterpretated by them from the very start(edited)

<Doram 3:20 PM> I had high hopes.

<Shroom> 3:21 PM yeah, now let's look at the consequences
that "boycotting maintenance" and stuff was the last resort to let frustration go of course, but I can't make promises if I'll have the mood to continue it

<Doram 3:22 PM> that's understandable.

<Shroom 3:25 PM> well, yeah, you give them their will, but I don't know if you really hurt their will too much if you swap Ven and Raz, so that while Raz is not a mod anymore, he can still contribute behind the scenes (a thought which is really not convenient by itself already)
it would really be a good and important thing to do