Vaccinations - March 2013

Q: Vaccine info resources

Natalie Metz

Message 1 of 14 , Mar 26, 2013[-- Image: Frame1 --]



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Greetings!

Does anyone have a recommendation about resources for informing
new parents about vaccination options/considerations?

I have attended a few webinars in the last few years, but I am
looking for something that non-medically educated folks could
reference online or in a book (beyond Dr. Sears).

Thank you!

Sincerely,

Dr. Natalie

--
Dr. Natalie Metz
Licensed Naturopathic Doctor

www.drnataliemetz.com

415.797.7288

"...the Doctors of the Future will give no Medicine, they will
interest their patients in the care of the human frame, in
diet, and in the causes and prevention of disease..."

-adapted from Thomas Edison

ballard2doc

Message 2 of 14 , Mar 26, 2013[-- Image: Frame2 --]



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Hi Natalie,

In addition to Dr. Sear's materials, which I find very helpful,
here are some common resources that I also find helpful for
parents, although I will disclose that I am generally
supportive of vaccination:
1) http://www.vaccineinformation.org/
2) Children's Hospital of
Philadelphia: http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/home.html
3) http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/Index1.html

-Jonathan Bell, ND

drdougcutler

Message 3 of 14 , Mar 26, 2013[-- Image: Frame3 --]



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Hi Natalie,

I appreciate Jonathan's disclosure, the same needs to be done
with a couple of his resources.

vaccineinfo.org receives their funding from the following Big
Pharma companies who make the majority of vaccines. Of course,
they say it has "no influence" on the content. They also have
on their advisory board, the likes of Paul Offit.

2013: CSL Biotherapies / GlaxoSmithKline / MedImmune, Inc. /
Merck Sharp & Dohme Corp. / Novartis Vaccines / Ortho Clinical
Diagnostics, Inc. / Pfizer Inc. / sanofi pasteur

chop.edu is also heavily funded by Big Pharma with Paul Offit
(who works @ chop) reviewing the vaccine information. The
material that they provide to the public is misleading and
inaccurate. i.e. (babies receive more aluminum from breast milk
than vaccines and comparing injected aluminum to ingested
aluminum).

Personally, I find most mothers (parents) who do their own
research know more about vaccines than 98% of the doctors out
there. No lie.

Parents will eventually be exposed to both sides of the debate,
but before that happens, I recommend researching the actual
vaccine inserts – each one is listed free online. FDA
source:http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm093833.htm

Then research the actual ingredients for each vaccine. More
determined parents who want to know what is injected into their
baby will then independently research each ingredient. CDC
source:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

My disclosure, I am opposed to all sources of toxins therefore I
am against vaccines whose one size approach fails to account
nutritional statuses, toxic burden of mom/child and genetic
polymorphisms that are at epidemic levels. 10 vaccines from
birth to 6 years in 1983 and 36-38 vaccines from birth to 6
years in 2010. Insane.

Regards,

Doug Cutler, ND
Southfield, MI
O: 248-971-3866
www.cutlerintegrativemedicine.com

Hanalei Roberts

Message 4 of 14 , Mar 26, 2013[-- Image: Frame4 --]



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 An option I find easy to navigate and calculate from is the
vaccine ingredient calculator at
the http://www.vaccine-tlc.org/. It is based on the insert
information Dr. Culter was talking about. The site it is on,
NVIC.org, is def biased against vac, but I would give your
patient both sides of resources on this controversial
subject(if you can stand to!). The calculator is nice if you
are doing an alternative schedule or you want to find the brand
of a vaccine that has less toxins.  I find vaccines mostly
criminal and less than useful so of course I am biased on this
issue. For my patients that want to use them I encourage them
to do an alternate schedule, use the calculator to find the
least toxic ones/combos, use vaccisheild, and never give a sick
child vaccines.
Hana Roberts ND

 Kapaau/Waimea HI

ballard2doc

Message 5 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013[-- Image: Frame5 --]



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Natalie,

It seems you opened a can of worms. I don't have the time or
energy for getting into yet another war about vaccination. A
quick search of NatChat is sufficient to address much of this
controversy. As physicians we need to always update our
knowledge and question our personal dogma/bias, or we risk
losing the objectivity inherent in our role. For the record, I
am committed to this process and will keep an open mind. I
suggest the same to those of us that are "anti-vaccine".

Here is a great essay for patients and physicians about making
vaccine decisions, forwarded to me recently from a brilliant ND
researcher, Ather Ali, that I think will provide interest:
http://harpers.org/archive/2013/01/sentimental-medicine/

For those interested in vaccine safety in general- while it is
true that there is a lot we still don't know about longterm
vaccine safety, at the least we can evaluate the evidence that
exists. Here is a useful independent report on the state of
evidence re: vaccine safety, from the Institute of Medicine:
http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2011/Adverse-Effects-of-Vaccines-Evidence-and-Causality.aspx

RE: Dr. Cutler's aluminum adjuvant safety concern- it is
generally agreed across the immunization world that continued
study needs to be done. However, as Dr. Cutler cites the FDA, I
will provide their following report finding, "Aluminum in
Vaccines Poses Extremely Low Risk to Infants"
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/ScienceResearch/ucm284520.htm
If interested in the concern regarding aluminum safety in
vaccines, here is what Dr. Sears' concern
is:http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/vaccines/vaccine-faqs

-Jonathan Bell, ND

drdougcutler

Message 6 of 14 , Mar 28, 2013[-- Image: Frame6 --]



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For the record: The Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and
Causality (2012) by the Institute of Medicine is far from an
"independent review". More specifically, it is an endless
conflict of interests at nauseating levels.

The National Vaccine Program Office (part of the committee) is
funded by the following: Biotechnology Industry Organization
sponsored by AstraZeneca, Genentech, MERCK, Pfizer, Sanofi. All
vaccine manufactures.

& PhRMA (Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America):
Too many to list:http://www.phrma.org/about/member-companies

The authors in the committee listed in Appendix F have endless
Big Pharma connections: i.e. Novartis, Sanofi, etc.

A more appropriate title should be: "Big Pharma's review of
their own vaccines".

And from the "Concluding Comments" (a very odd & vague read):
"This report is not intended to answer the question: are
vaccines safe;". Then what was the point wasting our tax
dollars that had direct Big Pharma influence? How about real
independent studies?

Jonathan, you also stated: "it is generally agreed across the
immunization world that continued study needs to be done."

Agreed. But the sad reality, is that the "study" is being
performed today with our children as the guinea pigs.
Absolutely shameful that the biggest medical fraud (perpetuated
by Big Pharma) continues to indoctrinate the public ("milk does
a body good") that vaccines are safe and effective. As you
stated, we still don't know the longterm vaccine safety so
hoping that they are safe and effective for the "greater good"
is unacceptable and completely immoral until we fully know.

You are right though, we need to question our personal
"dogma/bias". I fully believed in vaccines until my intimate
association with hundreds of mothers that had vaccine injured
children, changed that entire belief set completely around. The
same amazing mothers that knew more about vaccines than any
doctor or scientist out there, hands down. Then with my
training and knowledge of environmental toxins, just analyzing
the actual ingredients of each vaccine, one by one - I could
never in good conscience justify those known toxic ingredients
to have a free pass directly (no detox roadblocks) to a baby's
brain.

Regards,

Doug Cutler, ND
Southfield, MI
O: 248-663-0165
www.cutlerintegrativemedicine.com

ballard2doc

Message 7 of 14 , Mar 28, 2013[-- Image: Frame7 --]



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"Vaccines are not evil". They are just tools- and they have a
place in naturopathy. The idea is to provide experiential
education for the immune system.

So again the vaccination debate comes to the same place that all
anti-vac argument goes- a conspiracy by the pharmaceutical
companies to make money at the expense of our children. Yes,
they have a bias to make money (like Nutraceutical companies,
eh? How many of you derive $ directly from the sale of
supplements?). Yes, they have the money to do the studies. I
agree with you that capitalism is an obstacle to cure, in many
other ways beyond vaccines. But no, this bias does not
completely stop us from analyzing the data and controlling for
confounders. How are you going to obtain the data you are
requesting - how do you propose to design studies in the
capitalistic reality that we live in? How do we answer the
safety questions unless we move forward? More $ is spent on
vaccine safety than any other pharmaceutical/nutraceutical,
that's a fact.

Yes, RARE adverse effects have occurred from vaccines, that is
an established fact. However, the benefits of vaccination far
outweigh the risks. Are we to stop all vaccination and return
to pre-vaccine era disease rates? Please tell me that you don't
actually believe that changes in sanitation, colonics and
supplements, will protect children from HIB, pneumo, Pertussis,
etc...? That's an antiquated idea. Are we to dissuade our
patients from vaccinating, only so that they can benefit from
the rest of the public responsibly vaccinating. "Community
Immunity" only works if we all participate. Participating in
anti-vaccination is truly "unethical" to my physician's mind.

My experience is apparently different than you, Doug. I, who
immunize children daily and participate in the federal Vaccines
for Children program, have never seen a major adverse effect
from vaccination. Although I know it occurs, rarely. I have
seen some minor rashes, elevated temps, but that's it. I do
want vaccines to develop and become safer. They already have-
there was more antigenic load from the single dose of Smallpox
vaccine then there is now from all of the routine children's
vaccines put together. Yes there are "toxins" in vaccines:
adjuvants and preservatives in vaccines to make them work
better and minimize risk of infection (before preservatives
people died from contamination in vaccines). I look forward to
continued progress in the evolution of the field of
"immunization"- as in if homeopathy, Nosodes and any other form
of "immunization" proves more safe and effective than
conventional "Vaccination" then I will surely adopt these
measures. I am looking forward to Dr. Jared Zeff's study in
this area.

Again, I don't want to cause ire but I think placating
anti-vaccination isn't responsible for our community and does
nothing to further the profession,
Jonathan

loreendawson

Message 8 of 14 , Mar 28, 2013[-- Image: Frame8 --]



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Hi Jonathan
I found your observation very curious. My practice is primarily
focused on treating older adults, with children making up less
than 5% of my patients, yet I have seen quite a few children
whose parents claim profound changes in behaviour and cognition
after vaccination. I am not talking about short term fevers and
red spots, but quite significant, long term effects.

I would be interested in hearing from those docs who primarily
treat children. What do you see?

I am also wondering, Jonathon, if you do some type of supportive
care when you vaccinate which may be mitigating these effects.

Loreen Dawson, ND
Sechelt, BC

Eric Blake

Message 9 of 14 , Mar 28, 2013[-- Image: Frame9 --]



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Jonathan- you raise some very interesting points, and adopt a
position that opens you to criticism from your colleagues.

Not an easy path.

Asking naturopaths to accept vaccinations is comparable in my
mind to asking dentists to give up amalgams.  It touches on
some very deep beliefs in the professional group :)

I for one am interested in your observations.

best

Dr. Eric Blake
Naturopathic Physician and Diplomate of Acupuncture

drdougcutler

Message 10 of 14 , Mar 28, 2013[-- Image: Frame10 --]



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Where is the "conspiracy"?

I specifically showed the majority of your sources to be heavily
influenced by Big Pharma. This is Basic Research:101 and we have
to acknowledge that these conflict of interests do not belong in
the naturopathic community that strives for honesty, the highest
ethics and truth. It is your responsibility to fully disclose
these conflicts, I don't appreciate that I have to do this for
you and then have you turn around and describe it as "placating
anti-vaccination".

It is an apple to oranges fallacy to compare vaccine
manufacturers to nutraceutical companies. We are discussing
vaccines; they are on trial, not nutrients. Feel free to make
another topic about nutrients and how there is an "epidemic" of
harm that they are causing to our children.

Let's be clear, the questions that you are asking aren't up to
me to answer or anyone reading this topic. They should have
already been thoroughly answered before we started to inject a
cocktail of poison into our children. To ask these questions
decades later is very revealing and oh I don't know, a problem?

I appreciate your opinions Jonathan, but I don't appreciate that
you have to capitalize "rare" especially when you have
acknowledged that there hasn't been sufficient or long-term
studies. You can't live in both worlds.

But I understand where you are coming from, with the small
window of discussion; I can see/sense your deep-seated doubts
that you don't recognize. I encourage to let those doubts grow,
follow your own advice and question what you think you know,
then they will uncomfortably blossom as truth.

As a former die-hard vaxapologist, it was slowly painful to
accept I was completely wrong. I once mocked the "crazies" of
the anti-vaccine movement, and believed my own future children
were going to be vaccinated until these mothers convinced me
otherwise. And of course, you have "never seen a major adverse
effect", you don't go home with these parents after you inject
or follow the long-term consequences. These parents saw the
changes happen right before their eyes and I have cried with
them when these "rare" reactions in their children are
ignorantly discounted and not attributed to vaccines by their
doctors. Vaccine injuries today are described as "coincidences"
every single time. Friendly advice, never look into these
mother's eyes and tell them that their vaccine-injured children
was just a "RARE" event.

"It is impossible to identify all rare adverse events or to
identify the safest vaccine combinations prior to licensure."
Robert Chen, chief of vaccine safety and development activity
at the USA National Immunisation Program of the Center for
Disease Control, Conference Coverage (ECPI Combination
Vaccines). CDC Sharpens Tools for Vaccine-Safety Surveillance.
Vaccine Weekly, May 25th, 1998.

The result? Our little ones are the guinea pigs as we ignorantly
throw out the "rare" event mantra when thousands of vaccine
injured families are left to struggle on their own. Children
deserve better!

The "vaccines ended infectious disease" myth, is just that, a
myth. The credit goes to increased nutrition, better hygiene
practices, better sanitation, and cleaner water. I understand
that the vaccine religion has rewritten history, but it is
ridiculous to believe that the doctrine of vaccination should
not be challenged. Quite the contrary, it should be questioned,
it should be confronted and I wholeheartedly believe it should
be mocked for what it is, a fraud.

Seriously, when did we as a species start developing
deficiencies for aluminum, thimerosal, yellow #6, formaldehyde,
polysorbate 80, octylphenol ethoxylate, MSG, gelatin, neomycin,
bovine calf serum, hexadecyltrimethylammonium bromide, monkey
kidney cells, human diploid cells (WI-38, MRC-5) from aborted
fetuses, triton x-100, and insect cells? All found in vaccines.
Can you even imagine drinking this odd cocktail of poison even
if it was in so called "small amounts"? Yet, we blindly inject
it? Insane.

This is not new, the vaccine debate has been going on for
hundreds of years. Sadly, we never learn from history, but I
assure you that none of us will want to end up on the wrong
side of history with this issue.

"Vaccination is a monstrosity, a misbegotten offspring of error
and ignorance; and, being such, it should have no place in
either hygiene or medicine....Believe not in vaccination, it is
a world-wide delusion, an unscientific practice, a fatal
superstition with consequences measured today by tears and
sorrow without end." - Carlo Ruta. 1896. Professor of Materia
Medica at the University of Perugia, Italy.

Regards,

Doug Cutler, ND
Southfield, MI
O: 248-663-0165
www.cutlerintegrativemedicine.com

Maria Cronyn

Message 11 of 14 , Mar 28, 2013[-- Image: Frame11 --]



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I don't really know why we are having this talk but hey!  Thanks
for the info.

I thought it was inherently known that there is risk,
corruption, unsafe vaccines, and all kinds of snafu riddled
stories of tainted batches and useless "research".

Its like the twilight zone for me... have I stepped back in time
to the 1960's?

The propaganda is the safety, the conspiracy theorists do better
science than the reps and researchers every day of the week.

Believe it folks.

--
Dr Maria Cronyn

647.770.9674

ballard2doc

Message 12 of 14 , Mar 29, 2013[-- Image: Frame12 --]



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Hi Loreen,
The problem with attributing a vaccine with a suspected adverse
effect comes down to "correlation vs causation". For instance,
getting the flu from the flu vaccine- while many will come down
with the flu in correlation with the vaccine, it isn't caused by
the vaccine- it is all about timing. Thus I try to be careful
with timing of immunization to limit correlation. Other than
choosing healthy times to vaccinate I don't know of ways to
minimize reactions beyond the known warnings and
contraindications

drpetra13

Message 13 of 14 , Apr 1, 2013[-- Image: Frame13 --]



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Dr J Bell wrote: "'Vaccines are not evil'. They are just tools-
and they have a place in naturopathy. The idea is to provide
experiential education for the immune system."

Generally speaking, a healthy person is less likely to develop
severe illness from a vaccine-preventable infection. This grows
much less likely as a person's overall level of health decreases
from optimal, especially where he/she is also in contact with
others who also maintain less than healthy lifestyles, eating
less than ideal diets.

It may be easy to argue that vaccinating one's children may be
unnecessary, or at most minimally necessary. However, the need
for vaccination should always be re-evaluated when the
circumstances change. Here is a real-life example. Children
born into a rural family living on an organic farm, whose
parents grow most of their own food and home-school them will
have much more optimal health status and relatively low risk
for exposure. On the other hand, should that family decide to
go an adventure by traveling from northern to southern Africa
in a rented van and eating local food along the way, and you
have changed the risk picture entirely. Should this family
vaccinate their three children (currently between the ages of
15 months and 5 years)? Fifteen years ago when I worked at the
health department in Seattle, this family came in, with these
travel plans.

I practice in a community where vaccination rates are among the
lowest in the state. The community is tremendously diverse,
with a wide range of racial/ethnic origin, income, and
education levels. Many people incorporate very healthy diet and
exercise patterns into their lifestyles. However, others eat
very poorly, do not exercise, abuse drugs, are obese, or have
diabetes or other health conditions that predispose to
infectious disease. A few live in homes lacking working
toilets, relying upon buckets they empty in their yards.

In this community, very healthy and less-healthy children spend
time together in school and community programs. There, they do
what children do best - share, first with each other, then with
their families. The result is that people get sick, very sick.
While disproportionately those requiring hospitalization are
those with risk factors of one kind or another, the healthy
people get sick also. All have loved ones who care deeply about
their recovery.

What is my point? I've seen severe vaccine-preventable disease
and known others who survived life-threatening cases of these
illnesses - measles encephalopathy, paralytic polio, bacterial
meningitis (HiB and meningococcal), infantile pertussis,
pre-natal rubella, and more. As a health care provider, if I
have a way to prevent these terrible diseases, I will do that.
Vaccines are an important tool, although certainly not the only
one.

Our patients live the lives they do, with the risk factors they
have. Some are higher risk, others, lower risk. The more time
they spend together, the more the risk of illness-sharing
rises, as does the risk that a vaccine-preventable illness will
touch their lives in one way or another. To that end, I
vaccinate patients on a near daily basis during the colder
months, less often during the warmer ones. I would love to see
vaccines safer, as long as this may be accomplished without
sacrificing efficacy along the way. In the interests of safety,
my organization uses preservative-free preparations where
available. My experience with adverse effects mirrors that of
Dr Bell's: I have seen no serious reactions - nothing more
severe than local reactions (sore arm) or the occasional
low-grade fever with irritability.

I realize that my comments are unlikely to convince anyone who
has already come to a different conclusion about vaccines and
vaccination. I ask that we all apply critical thinking to the
information sources. There are valid concerns about bias on
both sides of the debate.

Petra

Petra Eichelsdoerfer, ND,CN,RPh
Bothell, WA

drerikak

Message 14 of 14 , May 6 11:40 PM[-- Image: Frame14 --]



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Hi Natalie,

I know this is a little late but I wanted to share it with you
and the rest of NatChat...

My vaccine webinar is finally done! It is available on my
website for a very cheap $18 (considering the 70 hours and over
300 research articles I pulled for it). The link
is: http://www.mtwholehealth.com/vaccines-demystified

It is 100% research based, as unbiased as humanly possible (!).
I present both sides of vaccine arguments, and there is a
lengthy discussion of aluminum and its effects. There is also
an e-book included that has the basics of each vaccine, disease
info, adverse effects, etc, plus a vaccine planning worksheet.

Whew! This has been my baby for the last three months, I hope
you guys can find it helpful.

Physicians can get $3 off (type Physician2013), I think it's
worth it just for the aluminum conversation.

Sorry for the sales pitch! Hope you find it helpful though...

--
Erika Krumbeck, ND
Naturopathic Physician
Montana Whole Health
www.mtwholehealth.com
(406) 552-5041