Advertisement
Not a member of Pastebin yet?
Sign Up,
it unlocks many cool features!
- Shimon's answer alludes to a debate which got me interested to research more about the transcripts of the actual debate and after some research I found it in an academic paper as it appears in the translated form , [the citation for this Journal paper is][1] :
- <pre>
- A Shii-Jewish "Debate" (Munazara) in the Eighteenth Century By: Moreen, Vera B.
- | The Journal of the American Oriental Society, October-December 1999
- </pre>
- As the OP asks for transcripts of such a debate, here is a verbatim transcript quoted from the paper, it is the debate between Sayyid Muhammad Mahdi Tabataba'i and the Jews of Du-l-Kifl :
- ()
- > Da'ud began to speak, saying: "We and the community of Islam, from
- > among all other religious communities, are monotheists and are free of
- > polytheism. The rest of the groups and peoples, such as the
- > Zoroastrians and the Christians, associate partners with their lord
- > and worship idols and graven images. No others remain to profess God's
- > unity (tawhid), except the two groups [Jews and Muslims]."(64)
- >
- > Then the Sayyid said: "How is this? The Jews adopted the [Golden] Calf
- > and worshiped it, 'and they did not cease to cling to it until Moses
- > returned to them' from the appointed meeting with his Lord.(65) This
- > affair of theirs is too famous to need recalling and too well known to
- > be denied. Then they also worshiped idols in the time of Jeroboam b.
- > Nabat, who was one of the servants of Soloman b. David.(66) His story
- > is as follows: Soloman detected in him the desire to rule and
- > perceived in him marks of leadership and sovereignty. Ahijah of Shiloh
- > had informed Jeroboam of [Soloman's suspicion] and he [Ahijah] tore
- > the new garment he [Jeroboam] wore, ripping it into twelve pieces
- > giving him ten, saying: 'You will reign over this many [i.e. ten]
- > tribes of the children of Israel, and there will remain for Soloman
- > and his son Rehoboam and his sons only two tribes, namely Judah and
- > Benjamin.'(67) Then Soloman planned to kill Jeroboam, but Yeraboam b.
- > Nabat fled from Soloman to Shishak, the ruler of Egypt, and remained
- > with him until Soloman died. He then returned to al-Sham. It was his
- > [Jeroboam's] view and the view of all the children of Israel that
- > Rehoboam, the son of Soloman, should be made king, and they made him
- > king. Then they [the children of Israel] came to him imploring his
- > mercy on account of the burdens and difficulties that were imposed
- > upon them in the days of Solomon. But Rehoboam said to them: 'Verily,
- > my little finger is stronger than my father's little finger.(68) If,
- > indeed, my father had imposed on you difficult tasks and made you bear
- > troublesome burdens, I will place and impose upon you that which is
- > [even] more burdensome and more difficult.' Then they [the children of
- > Israel] separated themselves from him and ap-pointed Jeroboam b. Nabat
- > and made him king over themselves; ten tribes of Israel were in
- > agreement about him. And Rehoboam b. Soloman became ruler of the two
- > [remaining] tribes in Jerusalem.(69) But, because the children of
- > Israel used to go on pilgrimage to Jerusalem every year, Jeroboam
- > feared for his reign if he should permit them to [continue to] go to
- > pilgrimage on account of Rehoboam and his followers, who might turn
- > them [the children of Israel] away from him [Jeroboam], or cause them
- > to become favorably inclined toward him [Rehoboam]. Therefore he made
- > for them two golden calves and placed them in Dan and Bethel, saying:
- > 'These are your gods, O Israel, who made you go up from the land of
- > Egypt.'(70) And he commanded the people to worship them and to go on
- > pilgrimage to them. They obeyed and thus became idolaters once again,
- > after the worship of the [first Golden] Calf.(71) So how can any of
- > you Jews say that the Jews did not use to associate others with God,
- > the exalted, and had no other god beside God, the exalted, and that
- > they were monotheists, turning away from anything other than God?"
- >
- > They [the Jews] acknowledged what he had said about their worship of
- > idols in accord with what he had mentioned and wondered at his having
- > noticed what no one else knew of their own affairs.(72) Then he said
- > to them: "How was it permitted to Soloman to plan to kill Jeroboam
- > before [he committed] his crime?(73) This is not permitted in the law
- > (shari a) of Moses, nor in the law of the other prophets. Solomon
- > adhered to the law of Moses, and if he was permitted to do that which
- > Moses was not permitted, [then] abrogation [of the law] is permitted;
- > but you deny [the possibility of] abrogation."(74) They [the Jews]
- > were silent. Da'ud, their leader, said: "O, our master, we accept your
- > words wholeheartedly." Then he [the Sayyid] asked: "Tell me, are there
- > among you, O community of Jews, differences [of opinion], and are
- > there contradictions and disagreements in your books?" They answered:
- > "No." But he said to them: "How can this be? You are divided into
- > three sects from which seventy-one sects have split off.(75) [One of
- > these] is the Samaritans, a large sect of the Jews that differs from
- > them in many things. The Torah that they have differs from that which
- > the rest of the Jews have." They answered: "We do not know why these
- > differences occurred. But we do know that the Book of the Samaritans
- > differs from ours and that they also differ from us in many other
- > matters."(76) Next he said to them: "How do you deny disagreement
- > [among you] and claim agreement on one [and the same] thing?" He also
- > asked them: "Has anything been added to or taken away from the Torah
- > which God, the exalted, revealed to Moses?"(77) They answered: "It is
- > as it has been until now; nothing was added, nothing was taken
- > away?"(78) He replied: "How can this be? For in the Torah which you
- > have there are things that are clearly abominable, ugly and
- > repulsive,(79) such as what happened in the story of the [Golden] Calf
- > to the prophet Aaron, which attributes to him the making of a god for
- > the children of Israel. This is the translation of the phrase in the
- > Torah in the chapter 'The Revelation of the Tablets and the Making of
- > the Calf,' which is chapter twenty of the second book:(80) 'When the
- > people saw that Moses was late in descending from the mountain, they
- > turned to Aaron and said: "Rise and make us gods who will march before
- > us, for this man Moses, who brought us out from the land of Egypt, we
- > don't know what happened to him."(81) And Aaron said to them: "Take
- > off the golden earrings which are in the ears of your wives, sons, and
- > daughters, and bring them to me."(82) The people did so. They removed
- > the golden earrings that were in their ears and brought them to Aaron,
- > and he took these from them and molded them into a form, and shaped it
- > into a molten calf, and they adopted it as a god and worshiped it.
- > Then, when Moses came from his meeting with his God and saw what Aaron
- > and his people had done, he disapproved of it and rebuked Aaron, while
- > the latter apologized to him saying: "Do not blame me for this; I
- > would not have done it except for fear of division among the children
- > of Israel."'(83)
- >
- > "This is irrefutable proof that the Torah you have is corrupt,(84) and
- > that it contains additions to the Torah that was revealed to Moses,
- > for this kind of behavior could not originate even from a foolish
- > ignoramus; how then could it originate from the like of the prophet
- > Aaron? And how could he have made such an apology to Moses? The
- > division of the children of Israel, in his [Aaron's] estimation, would
- > have been a smaller offense than Aaron's fashioning a god for them to
- > worship? How could he fear the dissension among the children of Israel
- > and not worry that they commit polytheism and idolatry? Moses had said
- > to him: 'O Aaron, take my place among the people. Do right, and follow
- > not the way of mischief-makers.'"(85)
- >
- > Then Da'ud and the Jews who were with him, said: "And what objection
- > is there to this? Gabriel has also assisted [them] in this, and the
- > story concerning him is as famous in the Torah as the story of
- > Aaron."(86) But he answered: "Gabriel did not assist in this matter,
- > and there is nothing in the Torah of that which is here. It was
- > al-Samiri who found a trace of animation in the footprints of
- > Gabriel's horse and seduced the people by this means.(87) Gabriel
- > bears no responsibility in this matter, nor does God, the sublime, the
- > exalted, since He created the circumstance that led to the sedition,
- > just as He created circumstances of adultery, murder, and other sins.
- > They do not happen except in [specific] circumstances and [are carried
- > out by] specific instruments. But this does not come under the rubric
- > of assistance to idolatry and transgression [of God's commands]; God
- > is exalted greatly above [all] this.(88)
- >
- > "And in the fourth chapter of the fifth book mentioning the [Golden]
- > Calf and the reprimand of the children of Israel regarding its
- > worship, it is stated: 'God was very angry with Aaron and almost
- > destroyed him, but I begged [God's] pardon on his behalf. He forgave
- > him this as well.'(89) This clearly shows the repulsiveness of this
- > act and its odiousness, for if God was angry with Aaron on its
- > account, how can you say that there was no objection to it?
- >
- > "Almost as bad as this story in repulsiveness and odiousness is what
- > is recounted in the Torah about the story of Lot and his two
- > daughters.(90) In chapter twenty-three of the first book of the
- > Torah(91) [there is the following verse]: 'Verily, when Lot went up
- > from Swghr(92) and dwelled in the mountain with his two daughters (his
- > people having been destroyed), the older of the two said to the
- > younger one: "Our father is an old man and there are no men [left] on
- > earth to cohabit with us, as is the way of mankind. Rise, let us give
- > our father wine to drink and have sexual intercourse with him, and let
- > us strive to be-get progeny from him." So they gave him wine to drink
- > that night and the older one came and had intercourse with her father
- > and he did not perceive her sleeping [with him] nor her rising. Then,
- > on the next day, the older one said to the younger one: "I had
- > intercourse last night with father. Rise, let us give him wine to
- > drink tonight and have intercourse with him yourself." So they gave
- > him wine to drink that night as well. The younger one arose and had
- > intercourse with him and he did not perceive her sleeping or waking.
- > Thus Lot's two daughters became pregnant by their father. The older
- > one bore a son and she called him Moab. He is the progenitor of the
- > "children of Moab" to this day. And the younger one bore a son and she
- > called him Amon. And he is the progenitor of the "children of Amon" to
- > this day.'
- >
- > "This is the text of the Torah which the Jews(93) have; I have
- > translated it [these passages] word-for-word.(94) But this is an
- > evident lie and an ugly slander. Reason rejects that such shameful and
- > slanderous incidents could occur to the messengers and prophets of
- > God, and that their daughters and sons could be afflicted with the
- > consequences of such odious behavior throughout time and for all
- > generations [to come].(95)
- >
- > "As for Moab and Amon, they are two great nations between al-Balqa'
- > and Mt. al-Shara.(96) The grandmother of Soloman and David was from
- > among the children of Moab,(97) so according to the Jews this entire
- > progeny is ignoble, since it was not engendered through lawful
- > matrimony. The daughters' being prohibited to the father is agreed
- > upon by all laws and religions. Sisters too were prohibited by
- > previous religions. That is why Abraham, when the Egyptians asked him
- > about Sarah, said: 'She is my sister,'(98) so that they would not
- > think that she was his wife and would [not] kill him. And there is no
- > doubt that, in being prohibited, a daughter has precedence over a
- > sister.(99) It is usually not probable for one advanced in age to
- > impregnate on two successive nights, especially while excessively
- > drunk, which is what they claim. However, it was said that Lot, after
- > the affair with Sodom, was nearing one hundred years [of age].(100)
- >
- > "How could Lot's daughters think that the world was devoid of men,
- > despite knowing that those who perished were exclusively the people of
- > Lot? They knew that Abraham and his people were in the village of
- > Jirun(101) and between him and them there was only [a distance] of one
- > parasang, that the calamity did not befall them, and that the entire
- > world, except the people of Lot, were safe from it.
- >
- > "Therefore this is a lie mixed with excessive stupidity. It would have
- > been enough for them to know that their father would realize this
- > repulsive act when he awoke, and so would Abraham, the uncle of their
- > father, on account of the great position and close relationship [to
- > Lot]. This should have sufficed to prevent them from perpetrating this
- > abominable deed, supposing that it did take place. It, and the like of
- > it which occurs in your Torah, O community of Jews, is proof of the
- > occurrence in it of corruption and addition.(102)
- >
- > "And if we wished to elaborate on the contradictions and the
- > differences that occur in this Torah, and on what it unsuitably
- > associates with the Creator, the great and mighty, such as
- > corporeality, form, remorse, sorrow, weakness, [and] weariness, words
- > would be drawn out indeed and this place would not be wide enough [to
- > contain them all].(103)
- >
- > "But tell me, O community of Jews, can ritual prayer (salat) be
- > missing in any religious law (sharifa)?" They answered: "No; ritual
- > prayer is prescribed in all of them and no religious law is devoid of
- > it." He said: "Inform me about this ritual prayer of yours. What is
- > its origin? And whence is it taken? This Torah, which is made up of
- > five books, we have examined and know what is in it book by book, but
- > we have not found ritual prayer in any of them by name or
- > mention."(104) Then one of them replied: "The fact that it [ritual
- > prayer] is commanded is known through implication rather than through
- > explicit words).(105) The Torah contains [commands] regarding the
- > invocation (dhikr) [of God's name] and supplication (du?a)."(106) But
- > he, may God support him, said to them: "We are not talking about
- > invocation or about supplication, but rather about your specific and
- > prescribed ritual prayer (salat) [recited] three times daily, morning,
- > afternoon, and evening which are called tefilla shaharit, tefilla
- > minhah, and tefilla arab.(107) As for invocation and supplication,
- > there is a general command to do them, but no specific command that
- > ascribes specific times, and no direction [of prayer] is preferable to
- > another, whereas you must face the Temple(108) during this ritual
- > prayer, which is not a condition for invocation and supplication.
- >
- > "With regard to the prerequisite of facing the Temple, there is
- > another difficulty, one from which I do not see you freeing
- > yourselves, and it is this: the Temple was demarcated by David and was
- > built by his son Soloman. Now there were more than five hundred years
- > between Soloman and Moses.(109) So what was the status of Moses'
- > prayer, and after him, of the prayers of the prophets, until the time
- > of Soloman and his building of the Temple? Similar to this is what you
- > must admit in the matter of pilgrimage (hajj). The pilgrimage for you
- > is to the Temple, which was not in existence in the time of Moses, nor
- > that of the prophets, until the time of Soloman.(110) Is this a thing
- > you invented for yourselves, or do you possess any proof or evidence
- > for it? 'Bring your proof (of what ye state) if you are
- > truthful.'"(111)
- >
- > They answered: "We know this from the words of the prophets [who came]
- > after Moses, and [from] their books, as well as from the commentaries
- > of our sages (?ulama?) on the Torah." But he said to them: "As for the
- > prophets after Moses, they all [lived] according to his law, following
- > him in his judgments, ruling according to the Torah, not adding or
- > taking anything away from it.
- >
- > "Furthermore, you, O community of Jews, do not permit the abrogation
- > of laws, so how are you permitted new inventions(112) which did not
- > exist in the time of Moses? How is it possible for your sages to
- > comment on the Torah by [adding] things that are extraneous to the law
- > of Moses, and how can you attribute to the prophets their promulgation
- > of these laws which are extraneous to the Torah?"(113)
- >
- > They were perplexed by these words, silenced, and amazed by the
- > profusion of his learning and this information regarding their own
- > affairs and his understanding of their beliefs and writings. Then one
- > of them got up the courage to ask: "[Suppose] we were to admit that
- > there was no ritual prayer in the time of Moses; what are the
- > implications which are then incumbent upon us?"
- >
- > He, may God the exalted sustain him, answered them: "You have just
- > admitted that ritual prayer is prescribed in all religious laws, so
- > how can the law of Moses which, according to you, is the greatest and
- > most complete, lack it?(114) Moreover, what called upon you to suffer
- > the burden of performing this ritual prayer which did not exist in
- > your prophet's time and was no specified in your Book?"(115)
- >
- > They were silenced and had no answer; they felt embarrassed by the
- > exposure in one [and the same] meeting of such inconsistency in their
- > own words. Then one [of the Jews] said to the Sayyid: "The Qur?an does
- > not elaborate [the details] of the ritual prayers you perform, O
- > community of Muslims, so how do you know them, despite the fact that
- > the Qur?an lacks them?"(116)
- >
- > He responded: "Ritual prayer is mentioned in several places in the Qur
- > an. We know from the Qur an its number, its direction, and many of its
- > rules. The remaining rules and conditions we know from prophetic
- > explicatory utterances as related in reliable traditions.(117) So we
- > are not equal in this matter, we and you, if you [would but]
- > understand."
- >
- > Next he said: "The Torah contains many laws which you do not observe
- > now, such as the laws concerning purity and impurity until sunset, and
- > others, [laws] regarding touching those afflicted with venereal
- > disease, menstruation, leprosy, a variety of [unclean] animals, and
- > the contagion of the menses from women to men making the men who touch
- > them as ritually unclean as the menstruating women.(118) These laws
- > are contained in chapters nine, ten, and eleven of the third book and
- > in other places in the Torah [as well];(119) you should return to them
- > if [now] you do not perform them!"
- >
- > They answered: "Yes, this is all true, we agree and accept your
- > words."
- >
- > Afterward he said to them: "Why do you not perform these, although
- > they are mentioned in the text of the Torah which you claim is the one
- > revealed to Moses, without corruption or alteration, and whose law you
- > claim is universal for all people, exhaustive for all time, in which
- > nothing has been abrogated? After the prophet Moses, only Jesus and
- > Muhammad brought abrogation to his [Moses'] law. But you do not accept
- > their prophethood or the abrogation of the law of Moses in any way."
- >
- > They replied: "This all pertains to the rule on commandments, and a
- > [positive] commandment can be changed in the course of time, as
- > opposed to prohibitions [which cannot]. The [positive] commandment is
- > [intended] to bring reward while the prohibition is [intended] to
- > repel punishment, and thus they differ."(120)
- >
- > He replied: "There is no difference between a [positive] commandment
- > and a prohibition in regard to the obligation to obey and to adhere;
- > abrogation is impossible without an abrogating [commandment] and
- > without a cause. And if a commandment is positive, it is like a
- > prohibition with regard to repelling punishment together with bringing
- > reward. What you claim, that all these laws pertain to the rule of
- > commandments, is not so. The wording of the Torah in these places
- > occurs both in the language of command and in other ways, such as
- > prohibition, forbidding, [demanding] purification, and [regarding]
- > polution.(121) "Produce the Torah and read it (unto us) if you be
- > truthful."(122)
- >
- > They then changed from this topic of conversation to another. Their
- > chief said: "How come you do not judge according to the Torah, O
- > community of Muslims, for the Qur n says: 'Whoso judgeth not by that
- > which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.'"(123)
- >
- > He responded: "Since the prophecy of our prophet is established for
- > us, and he abrogated previous laws, it is incumbent upon us to follow
- > the laws that abrogate rather than those that are abrogated. This is
- > just as you must follow the law of Moses, and must carry out what is
- > in the Torah, without [obeying] the religions, laws, and scriptures
- > that preceded it. A group of the laws of the Torah have remained which
- > have not been abrogated, such as the laws [regarding] injuries,
- > retaliation, and others.(124) But we rule in accord with these because
- > they exist in the Qur an, not because they are found in the
- > Torah."(125)
- >
- > Then he [the Jew] asked: "What is the meaning of His verse: 'Such of
- > Our revelations as We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, we bring [in
- > place] one better or the like thereof'?(126) What is the difference
- > between abrogating (naskh) and causing to forget (insa)? What is the
- > benefit in abrogating something and then instituting something like
- > it?"
- >
- > He replied: "The difference between abrogating and causing something
- > to be forgotten is that abrogation removes the legal provision (hukm)
- > even if the text which ordains it remains, while causing something to
- > be forgotten is removing it [the rule] by removing the text which
- > denotes it and wiping it off the mind completely. What is meant by
- > 'something like it' is the rule which is similar to the first,
- > according to its beneficial effect, so that its benefit in its own
- > time is equivalent to the benefit of the first rule in its own time,
- > not that the utility of both is the same during the same time, in
- > which case abrogation, of necessity, would be of no use."
- >
- > They laughed and were amazed by the excellence of his reply and the
- > beauty of the argument in his speech. He said: "O community of Jews,
- > had we perceived in you a desire and solicitousness in searching for
- > truth, we would have brought you clear proofs and overpowering
- > evidence.(127) But I counsel you with the most perfect of proofs to
- > act with fairness, abandon blind imitation (taqlid)(128) and the
- > following of your fathers and forefathers, and to abandon bigotry,
- > fanaticism, and stubbornness. For verily the world is perishable and
- > finite, 'every soul will taste of death,'(129) and God's servants must
- > meet God, the exalted, in eternity, on the great day after which there
- > will be nothing but lasting felicity or grievous torment. The
- > wise[man] is he who prepares himself for that day, is concerned about
- > it, and embarks in this world on correcting [his] beliefs, carries out
- > the works with which he is enjoined and contemplates critically the
- > various faiths and diverse denominations. But Truth cannot be on two
- > contradictory sides. No one can bring as an excuse the fact that he
- > imitates [the ways of his] father and grandfather, or accepts a
- > denomination or faith without proof or evidence. For the same rule
- > applies to all people as regards fathers and forefathers. If this were
- > an acceptable way to salvation, everyone would be saved and all people
- > would be safe! But this would do away with religion and make faith and
- > unbelief equal. Infidels and idolaters follow in the tracks of their
- > fathers, but they are not excused for it. [Their] following of their
- > tradition does not save them from destruction and ruin.(130) So, save
- > your souls from the torture of the fire and the wrath of the Almighty
- > 'on the day when hidden thoughts shall be searched out,'(131) veils
- > will be rent, intercession will be of no avail, nor close friends,
- > helpers, or protectors. Therefore it is incumbent on you to rid
- > yourselves of prejudices that prevent you from turning to the Truth,
- > and from the causes diverting [you] from integrity, to remove the
- > inclination towards the faith of [your] fathers and forefathers, and
- > to turn to the Lord of mankind, striving to seek that which saves from
- > torture on the Day of Return. This requires the beneficial spiritual
- > exercise of the soul and its salutary struggle as God, the exalted,
- > has said: '[As for] those who strive in Us, we surely guide them to
- > our paths.'(132) All revealed scriptures speak in this way, and it is
- > mentioned by all the prophets who have been sent. All sound minds
- > corroborate it and all penetrating, straightforward views lead to it.
- > Turn to God in your beliefs and mend them; correct your deeds and save
- > your souls; do not cause them to perish! No one is left with anything
- > but his soul when his spirit separates itself and he descends into the
- > grave. I do not want [to accomplish] anything with my speech except to
- > advise you as much as I can, even though you do not like advisers."
- >
- > They said: "Your words are precious to us and we accept them. We seek
- > Truth and we desire that which is fight and truthful."
- >
- > He asked them: "What incited you to choose and prefer the Jewish over
- > the Muslim faith?"
- >
- > They replied: "The followers of [the monotheistic] faiths, namely
- > Jews, Christians, and Muslims, agree about the prophecy of Moses,
- > [about] the firm ground of his law, and the revelation of the Torah to
- > him. They disagree regarding the prophecy of Jesus, the prophecy of
- > Muhammad, God's blessings be upon him, about the Gospels, and about
- > the Qur an. We chose that about which everyone is in agreement and
- > refrained from that about which they disagree."(133)
- >
- > He, may God the exalted sustain him, said to them: "Muslims believe in
- > the prophecy of Moses and in the truthfulness of his mission because
- > of the message of their righteous and reliable prophet [Muhammad] and
- > the fact that he [Moses] is mentioned in their book, the Qur an. Were
- > it not for this they [Muslims] would not acknowledge the prophecy of
- > Moses and Jesus, or the Torah and the Gospels.(134) But you do not
- > similarly accept the testimony of Christians and Muslims in anything.
- > So, how can you admit their testimony, for they testify against you
- > regarding idolatry and deviation from the truth? Thus there remains
- > for you nothing except your own testimony in regard to yourselves, and
- > it is of no benefit to you."(35)
- >
- > They were perplexed by his clear words and by this eloquent and
- > powerful assertion. They looked at one another and desisted for a long
- > time.
- >
- > Then Uzayr, a young man among them, said: "Dear sir, shall I give a
- > short, useful speech by way of advice and out of affection? Listen and
- > contemplate it and be fair; it shall be a proof against you."
- >
- > He replied: "All right; what is this speech?"
- >
- > He [ Uzayr] said: "In our scripture, that is to say in the Torah, the
- > advent of a prophet after Moses [is mentioned], but he would be from
- > among our brothers, not from the children of Ishmael."(136)
- >
- > But he countered: "The Torah mentions this good news in chapter twelve
- > of the fifth book, and its translation is: 'Verily, the Exalted said
- > to Moses: "I will set up for you,"--that is, for the children of
- > Israel--"a prophet from among the sons of their brothers [who is] like
- > you, so let them believe in him and listen to him."'(137) And the
- > brothers of the children of Israel are the children of Ishmael. Israel
- > is Jacob, son of Isaac, the brother of Ishmael.(138) Therefore, the
- > prophet who is promised is from the offspring of Ishmael. This is
- > proof in our favor, not against us."
- >
- > Uzayr was greatly embarrassed, turned colors, bit his fingertips, and
- > did not say anything after this. Then he [the Sayyid] returned to
- > giving them advice. He said to them: "You know of my knowledge of your
- > books and ways, and of my knowledge regarding the way of your
- > forefathers and [their] successors. I wish to put an end to your
- > excuses by removing your errors. If there is someone among you who is
- > more learned than you are, go back to him, find out what he knows.
- > Bring him to me; you have an entire year to do so.139 But return to
- > God and do not persist in your transgression."
- >
- > They said: "We believe in the prophecy of Moses through his brilliant
- > miracles and manifest signs." But he asked them: "Were you alive in
- > Moses' time and did you see these miracles and signs with your own
- > eyes?"(140) They replied: "We heard about them." Then he replied:
- > "Have you not also heard about the miracles of Muhammad, may God's
- > blessing be upon him, about his proofs, signs, and his evident
- > miracles?(114) How come you believe the former and disbelieve the
- > latter, despite the fact that Moses' time is distant from you and
- > Muhammad's is closer? It is well known that hearing differs in
- > intensity and weakens, according to whether the time is close or
- > distant. Whenever the time span is longer, belief is more difficult,
- > and whenever it is shorter, belief is easier. As for us, the community
- > of Muslims, we accepted both oral traditions [of Judaism and Islam]
- > and combined these two proofs; we believe in the prophecy of both
- > prophets. We do not differentiate between any of [God's] prophets and
- > His scriptures, and we do not say, as you do: 'We believe some of them
- > and disbelieve others.'(142) Praise be to God who guided us to this;
- > we would not have been rightly guided had God not guided us. The
- > prophets of our Lord brought the Truth."
- >
- > Then he [also] said to them: "If Abraham were to ask you: 'Why did you
- > abandon my religion and my faith? Why did you wind up in the religion
- > and faith of Moses?' What would you answer him?"(143) They replied:
- > "We would say to Abraham: 'You are the predecessor and Moses is the
- > successor; the law (hukm) does not belong to the predecessor after
- > [the manifestation of] a successor.'"(144)
- >
- > But he answered them: "What if Muhammad said to you: 'Why do you not
- > follow my faith, since I am the successor and Moses is the
- > predecessor?' You have said: 'The law does not belong to the
- > predecessor after [the manifestation of] the successor,' and I brought
- > you manifest signs, brilliant miracles, and the eternal Qur an which
- > endures through time. What would your answer be to this?"
- >
- > Following this they desisted, became perplexed, and brought forward no
- > [other arguments]. "Thus was the disbeliever abashed."(145)
- >
- > He turned to their elder, saying: "I will ask you something. Tell me
- > the truth, and do not say anything other than the truth. Have you
- > tried to seek faith and acquire knowledge and certainty since you
- > reached maturity [i.e., the age when religious laws became obligatory
- > for you] until now?" He replied: "In fairness, until now I have not
- > been in this valley and [these arguments] never occurred to my
- > conscience or to my heart. I chose the faith of Moses because he was
- > our prophet and no proof was shown to us that would abrogate this
- > prophecy. We have not examined the religion of Muhammad closely nor
- > have we investigated it truly.(146) We shall contemplate this and
- > shall bring to you news regarding what occurs to us in this matter."
- [1]: http://www.questia.com/library/1G1-62658416/a-shii-jewish-debate-munazara-in-the-eighteenth
Advertisement
Add Comment
Please, Sign In to add comment
Advertisement