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  1. Sep 22 19:36:25 *       RayJay (RayJay@synIRC-529E4D6D.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #council
  2. Sep 22 19:36:26 *       ChanServ sets mode +a #council RayJay
  3. Sep 22 19:36:26 *       ChanServ gives channel operator status to RayJay
  4. Sep 22 19:37:03 <RayJay>        hi
  5. Sep 22 19:37:07 <RayJay>        em
  6. Sep 22 19:37:08 <RayJay>        iss
  7. Sep 22 19:37:09 <RayJay>        prem
  8. Sep 22 19:37:10 <RayJay>        comatt
  9. Sep 22 19:37:18 <RayJay>        if you're ready, we can begin discussion.
  10. Sep 22 19:39:45 <comatt6>       sure thing
  11. Sep 22 19:39:51 <comatt6>       i still don't have sops
  12. Sep 22 19:39:52 <comatt6>       w/e
  13. Sep 22 19:41:25 <RayJay>        ok
  14. Sep 22 19:41:26 <RayJay>        so
  15. Sep 22 19:41:26 <comatt6>       ready if everyone else is
  16. Sep 22 19:41:35 <RayJay>        let's start with drilbur
  17. Sep 22 19:41:39 <comatt6>       can we start with drilbur? i'm still--
  18. Sep 22 19:41:39 <comatt6>       ok
  19. Sep 22 19:41:43 <comatt6>       rayjay knows me
  20. Sep 22 19:41:49 <RayJay>        ...... / double sand rush
  21. Sep 22 19:42:01 <comatt6>       double sand rush is powerful
  22. Sep 22 19:42:11 <comatt6>       but can be played against properly
  23. Sep 22 19:42:33 <comatt6>       but it's hard to find a team (IMO) that works well against double rush AND works against other teams in the meta
  24. Sep 22 19:43:11 <RayJay>        see i disagree
  25. Sep 22 19:43:19 <comatt6>       how so
  26. Sep 22 19:43:22 <elevator_music>        hi
  27. Sep 22 19:43:22 <RayJay>        tons of players are using Snover, who frankly stomps double rush even more than sand rush
  28. Sep 22 19:43:30 <elevator_music>        ok i can come one sec
  29. Sep 22 19:43:30 <comatt6>       well the problem with that is
  30. Sep 22 19:43:39 <comatt6>       snover can't switch in directly
  31. Sep 22 19:43:43 <comatt6>       because rock slide
  32. Sep 22 19:43:55 <RayJay>        ok by that argument
  33. Sep 22 19:44:04 <comatt6>       so it HAS to come in on eq or sd
  34. Sep 22 19:44:08 <comatt6>       or revenge kill
  35. Sep 22 19:44:09 <RayJay>        it's important to note that half your team can't come in on Snover
  36. Sep 22 19:44:11 <elevator_music>        snover comes in on hippo
  37. Sep 22 19:44:28 <comatt6>       this is true
  38. Sep 22 19:44:47 <comatt6>       side note: if this is being recorded or whatever, v0x is a bitch.
  39. Sep 22 19:44:52 *       elevator_music has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
  40. Sep 22 19:45:02 *       elevator_music (str@ng.pkmn.weak.pkmn.that.is.only.the.selfish.perception.of.people) has joined #council
  41. Sep 22 19:45:02 *       ChanServ sets mode +a #council elevator_music
  42. Sep 22 19:45:02 *       ChanServ gives channel operator status to elevator_music
  43. Sep 22 19:45:07 <RayJay>        beyond snover, i struggle to see how double rush breaks through mienfoo 100% of the time
  44. Sep 22 19:45:16 <RayJay>        and mienfoo is easily the most common poke
  45. Sep 22 19:45:19 <comatt6>       what's the calc
  46. Sep 22 19:45:26 <comatt6>       of a +2 sd sandshrew EQ
  47. Sep 22 19:45:33 <comatt6>       +2 drilbur EQ is easy ohko
  48. Sep 22 19:45:38 <comatt6>       unless i'm sadly mistaken
  49. Sep 22 19:45:47 <comatt6>       assuming both have eviolite
  50. Sep 22 19:45:57 <RayJay>        it does not ohko mienfoo
  51. Sep 22 19:46:04 <elevator_music>        ok see my real problem with double rush
  52. Sep 22 19:46:13 <RayJay>        unless i am also sadly mistaken
  53. Sep 22 19:46:13 <comatt6>       hmm
  54. Sep 22 19:46:14 <elevator_music>        is that you have to use only 3 pokemon to cover the rest of the metagame
  55. Sep 22 19:46:18 <comatt6>       after rocks it's a ko
  56. Sep 22 19:46:26 <RayJay>        uhm what calc are you using
  57. Sep 22 19:46:26 <comatt6>       unless i'm thinking about a different spread
  58. Sep 22 19:46:27 <elevator_music>        because hippo/drilbur/sandshrew all have the same like
  59. Sep 22 19:46:35 <comatt6>       we're talking about a 0/196 right
  60. Sep 22 19:46:38 <elevator_music>        handful of pokemon they can come in on, yknow?
  61. Sep 22 19:46:40 <comatt6>       ray jay i
  62. Sep 22 19:46:48 <comatt6>       *i'm not, i'm going off of past experience
  63. Sep 22 19:46:49 <comatt6>       s
  64. Sep 22 19:46:52 <comatt6>       which...all had rocks down
  65. Sep 22 19:46:55 <RayJay>        because i've used my defensive mienfoo as essentially my sole drilbur / sandshrew counter and lost to double rush maybe once
  66. Sep 22 19:47:07 <comatt6>       do you also use snover?
  67. Sep 22 19:47:15 <RayJay>        no
  68. Sep 22 19:47:17 <comatt6>       oh
  69. Sep 22 19:47:24 <comatt6>       rayjay which calc are you using
  70. Sep 22 19:47:26 <comatt6>       i need a reference
  71. Sep 22 19:47:35 <RayJay>        you SHOULD be using masara
  72. Sep 22 19:47:39 <comatt6>       ok
  73. Sep 22 19:47:47 <RayJay>        my mienfoo is impish
  74. Sep 22 19:47:48 <RayJay>        156 hp
  75. Sep 22 19:47:52 <RayJay>        196 def
  76. Sep 22 19:47:54 <comatt6>       oh impish 156/196
  77. Sep 22 19:47:55 <comatt6>       i see
  78. Sep 22 19:47:59 <comatt6>       that would prevent an OHKO
  79. Sep 22 19:48:03 <elevator_music>        real niggas do calcs out by hand
  80. Sep 22 19:48:06 <comatt6>       hahaha
  81. Sep 22 19:48:31 <comatt6>       this being said, I'm NOT saying drilbur is broken
  82. Sep 22 19:48:37 <comatt6>       I just want to throw this out there
  83. Sep 22 19:48:37 <RayJay>        alright
  84. Sep 22 19:48:47 <RayJay>        i mean i've heard the "arguments" for it being broken
  85. Sep 22 19:48:59 <RayJay>        but i just have not seen a team comp with double rush that blows me away
  86. Sep 22 19:49:00 <comatt6>       as have i
  87. Sep 22 19:49:05 <comatt6>       word
  88. Sep 22 19:49:12 <comatt6>       have you played heysup?
  89. Sep 22 19:49:31 <elevator_music>        no because heysup doesnt really battle x.x
  90. Sep 22 19:49:37 <RayJay>        heysup cant battle i thought
  91. Sep 22 19:49:51 <elevator_music>        no he's good
  92. Sep 22 19:49:53 <comatt6>       he claims to have gone 28-2 or some horse shit like that with a double rush
  93. Sep 22 19:50:03 <elevator_music>        he just doesnt play lc much anymore
  94. Sep 22 19:50:04 <comatt6>       I don't believe my double rush team can perform that well
  95. Sep 22 19:51:51 <RayJay>        i mean i think it's pretty much understood at this point that drilbur is just frankly not broken by itself
  96. Sep 22 19:51:55 <comatt6>       ^
  97. Sep 22 19:51:57 <comatt6>       agreed.
  98. Sep 22 19:52:05 <RayJay>        and sand rush is just balanced by the fact that it takes 3 team slots
  99. Sep 22 19:52:12 <RayJay>        double rush, excuse me
  100. Sep 22 19:52:31 <comatt6>       you are excused
  101. Sep 22 19:52:57 <RayJay>        so do you two have any other notes on that?
  102. Sep 22 19:53:06 <comatt6>       yeah kinda
  103. Sep 22 19:53:16 <comatt6>       but it's just going to be a reiteration of what we've already said
  104. Sep 22 19:53:41 <RayJay>        go ahead
  105. Sep 22 19:53:47 <comatt6>       it's pretty much: without sand, drilbur is a support option with rapid spin; stealth rock; and mold breaker yes it beats koffing and bronzor but no one cares support isn't broken
  106. Sep 22 19:54:20 <elevator_music>        iss is dumb
  107. Sep 22 19:54:25 <elevator_music>        prem sucks penises
  108. Sep 22 19:54:30 <elevator_music>        lol charmander
  109. Sep 22 19:54:39 <Charmander>    sup
  110. Sep 22 19:55:01 <comatt6>       with ONLY hippopotas as part of a sandstorm team, the only way drilbur can sweep is if it comes in lategame and manages to set up swords dance; however, players usually come prepared with 1-3 checks to drilbur so it cannot do that effectively
  111. Sep 22 19:55:23 <RayJay>        yeah alright
  112. Sep 22 19:55:35 <RayJay>        since no one else is here yet, i think we can probably talk about murkrow for a bit
  113. Sep 22 19:56:30 <comatt6>       with Hippopotas AND sandshrew as a part of a sandstorm team, you are limited to the remaining slots and pretty much have to base the remaining half of the team to countering anti-sand/hail while your opponent may only need 1-2 pokemon to counter sand and can use 1-2 more pokemon to beat your counters and use the remaining mons to counter standard threats
  114. Sep 22 19:57:02 <comatt6>       that's all i have on drilbur
  115. Sep 22 19:57:07 <Charmander>    yeah
  116. Sep 22 19:57:11 <Charmander>    basically three ground-types
  117. Sep 22 19:57:16 <Charmander>    makes your team already kind of weak
  118. Sep 22 19:57:18 <Charmander>    you'll need like
  119. Sep 22 19:57:21 <comatt6>       Did everything I said make sense?
  120. Sep 22 19:57:22 <Charmander>    slowpoke bronzor lileep
  121. Sep 22 19:57:23 <Charmander>    or something
  122. Sep 22 19:57:31 <RayJay>        yup @ comatt
  123. Sep 22 19:57:33 <comatt6>       you pretty much NEED lileep and/or croagunk for water
  124. Sep 22 19:57:39 <comatt6>       and then uhhh
  125. Sep 22 19:57:45 <comatt6>       something for grass bronzor makes sense
  126. Sep 22 19:58:21 *       Aerrow (~aerrow@synIRC-561E7DD6.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #council
  127. Sep 22 19:58:21 *       ChanServ sets mode +q #council Aerrow
  128. Sep 22 19:58:21 *       ChanServ gives channel operator status to Aerrow
  129. Sep 22 19:58:32 <RayJay>        hi aerrow
  130. Sep 22 19:58:42 <RayJay>        we just finished discussing drilbur with the parties present
  131. Sep 22 19:58:43 <comatt6>       hey aerrow
  132. Sep 22 19:58:50 <RayJay>        now we're gonna move on to murkrow
  133. Sep 22 19:58:51 <comatt6>       lol you mean 2 members + charmander
  134. Sep 22 19:58:57 <comatt6>       so pretty much 2.5 members
  135. Sep 22 19:59:07 <RayJay>        no
  136. Sep 22 19:59:07 <Aerrow>        alright
  137. Sep 22 19:59:07 <RayJay>        me
  138. Sep 22 19:59:08 <RayJay>        em
  139. Sep 22 19:59:08 <Aerrow>        Save the logs
  140. Sep 22 19:59:08 <elevator_music>        where is bloserajan?
  141. Sep 22 19:59:09 <Aerrow>        All of it
  142. Sep 22 19:59:09 <RayJay>        iss
  143. Sep 22 19:59:12 <RayJay>        you
  144. Sep 22 19:59:13 <comatt6>       em didn't really talk
  145. Sep 22 19:59:16 <comatt6>       iss is here?
  146. Sep 22 19:59:18 <comatt6>       prem is here?
  147. Sep 22 19:59:21 <RayJay>        iss is in the channel
  148. Sep 22 19:59:23 <Aerrow>        ALL OF IT
  149. Sep 22 19:59:27 <comatt6>       ok
  150. Sep 22 19:59:29 <RayJay>        yeah i am saving the logs
  151. Sep 22 19:59:29 <Aerrow>        alright?
  152. Sep 22 19:59:39 <comatt6>       can i make a quick shout out
  153. Sep 22 19:59:44 <comatt6>       now that we're saving ALL the logs?
  154. Sep 22 19:59:46 <Charmander>    wait aerrow if one of the permanent members has to quit i replace them right
  155. Sep 22 19:59:57 <Aerrow>        yea
  156. Sep 22 20:00:00 <RayJay>        yeah also charmander has the right to chime into this discussion
  157. Sep 22 20:00:00 <Charmander>    ok cool
  158. Sep 22 20:00:08 <comatt6>       that's fair
  159. Sep 22 20:00:12 <comatt6>       charmander is cool
  160. Sep 22 20:00:15 <elevator_music>        charmander sux 8===D
  161. Sep 22 20:00:15 <Aerrow>        yes obv meander has ther right
  162. Sep 22 20:00:26 <comatt6>       charmander is minimember?
  163. Sep 22 20:00:28 <RayJay>        em
  164. Sep 22 20:00:33 <RayJay>        why did you show up to this while high
  165. Sep 22 20:00:38 <RayJay>        this is supposed to be serious
  166. Sep 22 20:00:39 <RayJay>        9.9
  167. Sep 22 20:00:59 <elevator_music>        haha i'll be on my best behavior
  168. Sep 22 20:01:04 <RayJay>        so murkrow
  169. Sep 22 20:01:05 <Aerrow>        everyone stfu and talk serious
  170. Sep 22 20:01:06 <RayJay>        em start us off
  171. Sep 22 20:01:09 <RayJay>        what do you think
  172. Sep 22 20:01:10 <Charmander>    lol
  173. Sep 22 20:01:14 <Charmander>    I love em when hes high
  174. Sep 22 20:01:18 <elevator_music>        i posted my opinion in the thread
  175. Sep 22 20:01:23 <elevator_music>        (and im actually not high lol)
  176. Sep 22 20:01:24 <elevator_music>        but
  177. Sep 22 20:01:27 <Charmander>    ok
  178. Sep 22 20:01:31 <Charmander>    I love em when he acts high*
  179. Sep 22 20:01:34 *       blarajan (~blarajan@synIRC-998F151F.wireless.umd.edu) has joined #council
  180. Sep 22 20:01:34 *       ChanServ sets mode +a #council blarajan
  181. Sep 22 20:01:34 *       ChanServ gives channel operator status to blarajan
  182. Sep 22 20:01:37 <elevator_music>        about time
  183. Sep 22 20:01:38 <Aerrow>        I'll be listening for the most part btw
  184. Sep 22 20:01:40 <comatt6>       lol
  185. Sep 22 20:01:47 <Charmander>    look what the cat dragged in........
  186. Sep 22 20:01:49 <blarajan>      yo
  187. Sep 22 20:01:54 <RayJay>        blarajan
  188. Sep 22 20:01:56 <comatt6>       hi blara!
  189. Sep 22 20:01:57 <RayJay>        before
  190. Sep 22 20:02:03 <RayJay>        we go on to murkrow
  191. Sep 22 20:02:04 <comatt6>       btw aerrow could i get sops on this channel
  192. Sep 22 20:02:06 <RayJay>        thoughts on drilbur and double rush
  193. Sep 22 20:02:08 <comatt6>       i feel inadequate
  194. Sep 22 20:03:42 <RayJay>        blarajan answer the questionb
  195. Sep 22 20:03:44 <RayJay>        question
  196. Sep 22 20:03:50 <Charmander>    i'll give my opinion
  197. Sep 22 20:03:51 <blarajan>      sorry my laptop was being silly
  198. Sep 22 20:03:57 <blarajan>      uhhh
  199. Sep 22 20:04:00 <Charmander>    like you said it gives you three snover weak mons
  200. Sep 22 20:04:09 <Charmander>    its can wreck non snover teams or non sand teams
  201. Sep 22 20:04:15 <Charmander>    but if you dont have a check you deserve to lose anyway
  202. Sep 22 20:04:28 <elevator_music>        the problem with double rush isnt not having a check
  203. Sep 22 20:04:30 <elevator_music>        lol
  204. Sep 22 20:04:38 <Charmander>    its centralizing but
  205. Sep 22 20:04:40 <elevator_music>        the point of double rush is to try and win even though you do have a check
  206. Sep 22 20:04:41 <blarajan>      double rush requires you to use three mono ground type pokemon on the same team
  207. Sep 22 20:04:45 <Charmander>    centralization isnt ground to be banned
  208. Sep 22 20:04:50 <Charmander>    being plan broken is
  209. Sep 22 20:04:54 <Charmander>    and sandrush is pretty far from that
  210. Sep 22 20:04:56 <elevator_music>        lol
  211. Sep 22 20:05:00 <Charmander>    plain*
  212. Sep 22 20:05:08 <Charmander>    also can missy be a suspect
  213. Sep 22 20:05:16 <elevator_music>        no
  214. Sep 22 20:05:16 <Charmander>    or are we past that stage
  215. Sep 22 20:05:19 <blarajan>      which is pretty problematic in a tier like little cup
  216. Sep 22 20:05:19 <Charmander>    fine
  217. Sep 22 20:05:26 <RayJay>        lol we are going to vote tonight charmander
  218. Sep 22 20:06:05 <comatt6>       missy isn't broken ><
  219. Sep 22 20:06:13 <comatt6>       we've gotten a tad bit off topic haven't we
  220. Sep 22 20:06:25 <Charmander>    yeah
  221. Sep 22 20:06:27 <Charmander>    im j/s
  222. Sep 22 20:06:27 <RayJay>        ok blarajan any other thoughts?
  223. Sep 22 20:06:28 <Charmander>    but go on
  224. Sep 22 20:06:41 <blarajan>      synergetic issues like that really matter
  225. Sep 22 20:06:57 <blarajan>      likewise honestly if you check one of them you check both
  226. Sep 22 20:07:35 <RayJay>        what is your response to the potential naysayers that say sandshrew wears down drilbur's checks?
  227. Sep 22 20:08:36 <blarajan>      who..cares? that's what playing pokemon does? you use things to wear down checks?
  228. Sep 22 20:08:44 <RayJay>        makes sense
  229. Sep 22 20:08:51 <RayJay>        alright so i think we're all pretty much in agreement there
  230. Sep 22 20:09:12 <RayJay>        i have to go afk for a bit, so we'll either vote later tonight or via pm
  231. Sep 22 20:09:23 <RayJay>        in the meantime, discuss murkrow
  232. Sep 22 20:09:27 *       RayJay is now known as AwayJay
  233. Sep 22 20:09:33 <blarajan>      you're the one that scheduled this...
  234. Sep 22 20:09:36 <elevator_music>        lol
  235. Sep 22 20:09:52 <AwayJay>       i had to schedule a time that worked best for the council as a whole
  236. Sep 22 20:10:06 <AwayJay>       which is more than just me
  237. Sep 22 20:10:10 <comatt6>       lol
  238. Sep 22 20:10:12 *       MarceloDK (~MarceloDK@BBC2B918.98FA4916.E778BCE0.IP) has joined #council
  239. Sep 22 20:10:13 *       ChanServ sets mode +a #council MarceloDK
  240. Sep 22 20:10:13 *       ChanServ gives channel operator status to MarceloDK
  241. Sep 22 20:10:15 <comatt6>       look at rayjay
  242. Sep 22 20:10:19 <comatt6>       being the pragmatic man
  243. Sep 22 20:10:22 <comatt6>       hey marcelo
  244. Sep 22 20:10:25 <comatt6>       thoughts on: Drilbur
  245. Sep 22 20:10:27 <MarceloDK>     hi
  246. Sep 22 20:10:29 <MarceloDK>     n_n
  247. Sep 22 20:10:31 <comatt6>       by itself / part of SS / double rush
  248. Sep 22 20:11:21 <MarceloDK>     i'm like 35/4 on ps with an alt
  249. Sep 22 20:11:32 <comatt6>       cool
  250. Sep 22 20:11:34 <MarceloDK>     3 loses to dc or a lot of hax
  251. Sep 22 20:11:43 <MarceloDK>     and 1 to oposing sand team
  252. Sep 22 20:11:57 <MarceloDK>     ~using a double rush team~
  253. Sep 22 20:12:00 <blarajan>      why do we care about thaht?
  254. Sep 22 20:12:03 <blarajan>      that*
  255. Sep 22 20:12:10 <elevator_music>        loladder
  256. Sep 22 20:12:18 <blarajan>      i've gone 35-0 on the ru ladder using electivire and metang
  257. Sep 22 20:12:24 <MarceloDK>     hm k
  258. Sep 22 20:12:25 <blarajan>      the ladder means nothing
  259. Sep 22 20:12:29 <blarajan>      lc ladder means even less
  260. Sep 22 20:12:36 <blarajan>      people think iss is a top player
  261. Sep 22 20:12:40 <blarajan>      you know tath's sad
  262. Sep 22 20:13:02 <elevator_music>        lol
  263. Sep 22 20:13:24 <comatt6>       lol
  264. Sep 22 20:13:47 <comatt6>       blara so blunt
  265. Sep 22 20:15:38 <blarajan>      it's true
  266. Sep 22 20:15:47 <MarceloDK>     anyways
  267. Sep 22 20:17:42 <MarceloDK>     my point is that double rush gives you an instant advantage vs. other kind of teams
  268. Sep 22 20:17:53 <elevator_music>        it comes at a big cost though :(
  269. Sep 22 20:18:02 <MarceloDK>     is you support it correctly
  270. Sep 22 20:18:06 <MarceloDK>     *if
  271. Sep 22 20:18:12 <elevator_music>        you can say the same thing for like
  272. Sep 22 20:18:15 <elevator_music>        riolu though :(
  273. Sep 22 20:18:51 <MarceloDK>     u just need keep harzards out and/or carry prioritys to beat riolu
  274. Sep 22 20:19:06 <MarceloDK>     but double rush u cant beat even with snover or pory scarf or bronzor
  275. Sep 22 20:20:17 <blarajan>      yes you can..?
  276. Sep 22 20:20:20 <MarceloDK>     see heysup's team: hippo sand drilbur wynaut houndour
  277. Sep 22 20:20:21 <elevator_music>        you're both underestimating the effectiveness of riolu and overestimating double rush -.-
  278. Sep 22 20:20:21 <comatt6>       yeah...you can
  279. Sep 22 20:20:34 <MarceloDK>     how can a snover beat this?
  280. Sep 22 20:20:39 <MarceloDK>     double trap...
  281. Sep 22 20:20:45 <elevator_music>        yeah
  282. Sep 22 20:20:48 <elevator_music>        run lileep and staryu
  283. Sep 22 20:20:56 <blarajan>      you mean heysup effectively built a team to well support a strategy?
  284. Sep 22 20:21:02 <prem>  okay im here
  285. Sep 22 20:21:07 <elevator_music>        or any two pokemon that moles cant set up on
  286. Sep 22 20:21:10 <blarajan>      heaven's forbid
  287. Sep 22 20:21:35 <MarceloDK>     i mean this strategy cant be countered with standard teams
  288. Sep 22 20:21:43 <comatt6>       hi prem
  289. Sep 22 20:21:53 <prem>  hi
  290. Sep 22 20:21:58 <blarajan>      that's really not true lol
  291. Sep 22 20:21:58 <MarceloDK>     i mean
  292. Sep 22 20:22:12 <MarceloDK>     you're about to use bronzor and shroo in the same team?
  293. Sep 22 20:22:15 <blarajan>      i play fairly standard things lol
  294. Sep 22 20:22:23 <elevator_music>        no
  295. Sep 22 20:22:26 <blarajan>      i hardly use either of those pokemon
  296. Sep 22 20:22:26 <elevator_music>        because you dont need to
  297. Sep 22 20:22:39 <blarajan>      and i never have issues with double rushh
  298. Sep 22 20:22:42 <blarajan>      as it's not a problem
  299. Sep 22 20:22:55 <prem>  i have issues single rush!
  300. Sep 22 20:22:56 <MarceloDK>     or your oponents sucks
  301. Sep 22 20:23:02 <prem>  but my teams are kinda odd
  302. Sep 22 20:23:29 <blarajan>      i really don't get what the problem is
  303. Sep 22 20:23:32 <blarajan>      lol
  304. Sep 22 20:23:55 <prem>  its too strong and fast and doesnt get ohkoed by all forms of priority
  305. Sep 22 20:24:02 <prem>  well
  306. Sep 22 20:24:03 <prem>  really strong
  307. Sep 22 20:24:05 <prem>  and too fast
  308. Sep 22 20:24:08 <MarceloDK>     this
  309. Sep 22 20:24:14 <prem>  im not saying too strong
  310. Sep 22 20:24:20 <comatt6>       drilbur is strong
  311. Sep 22 20:24:23 <prem>  even though i agree that drilbur should be banned
  312. Sep 22 20:24:24 <comatt6>       no one is going to debate that
  313. Sep 22 20:24:31 <MarceloDK>     both are strong
  314. Sep 22 20:24:42 <prem>  but thats my opinion based on me trying to like completely counter sand teams and still failr
  315. Sep 22 20:24:43 <MarceloDK>     +2 sd lo can 1hko everything, but bronzor
  316. Sep 22 20:24:44 <prem>  fail
  317. Sep 22 20:24:54 <blarajan>      lileep
  318. Sep 22 20:24:55 <prem>  +2 sd lo is also very hard to set up
  319. Sep 22 20:24:55 <iss>   oh hi
  320. Sep 22 20:24:56 <iss>   i'm here
  321. Sep 22 20:24:58 <elevator_music>        im sure running lo staryu doesnt help....
  322. Sep 22 20:24:59 <blarajan>      is never ohkoed by +2 life orb
  323. Sep 22 20:25:00 <comatt6>       lol iss
  324. Sep 22 20:25:00 <prem>  lileep probably dies
  325. Sep 22 20:25:02 <comatt6>       ok
  326. Sep 22 20:25:02 <iss>   sorry
  327. Sep 22 20:25:03 <blarajan>      just saying
  328. Sep 22 20:25:06 <blarajan>      it's never ohkoed
  329. Sep 22 20:25:07 <MarceloDK>     nah
  330. Sep 22 20:25:08 <prem>  it isnt?
  331. Sep 22 20:25:08 <comatt6>       lileep will lose to a +2 LO eq
  332. Sep 22 20:25:10 <blarajan>      nope
  333. Sep 22 20:25:12 <blarajan>      96% max
  334. Sep 22 20:25:13 <MarceloDK>     isnt hard to setup
  335. Sep 22 20:25:14 <prem>  i call bullshit
  336. Sep 22 20:25:15 <iss>   the problem is
  337. Sep 22 20:25:16 <prem>  you have rocks
  338. Sep 22 20:25:18 <blarajan>      want to bet?
  339. Sep 22 20:25:19 <prem>  if you are running hippo
  340. Sep 22 20:25:20 <elevator_music>        thing is
  341. Sep 22 20:25:21 <iss>   getting an sd with lo
  342. Sep 22 20:25:22 <comatt6>       actually
  343. Sep 22 20:25:23 <iss>   is impossible
  344. Sep 22 20:25:23 <MarceloDK>     sand can setup in mienfoo and a lot of things
  345. Sep 22 20:25:23 <iss>   lol
  346. Sep 22 20:25:25 *       Aerrow has kicked comatt6 from #council (Aerrow)
  347. Sep 22 20:25:25 <blarajan>      okay well if you're running fucking sd on lo
  348. Sep 22 20:25:29 *       comatt6 (~com@synIRC-1883DAA4.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #council
  349. Sep 22 20:25:29 *       ChanServ sets mode +a #council comatt6
  350. Sep 22 20:25:29 *       ChanServ gives channel operator status to comatt6
  351. Sep 22 20:25:29 <prem>  iss thats not impossible at all lol
  352. Sep 22 20:25:32 <comatt6>       thank you
  353. Sep 22 20:25:37 <Aerrow>        no
  354. Sep 22 20:25:39 <comatt6>       i just lost all the logs now
  355. Sep 22 20:25:40 <elevator_music>        thing is
  356. Sep 22 20:25:41 <prem>  but ya its very difficult to set up
  357. Sep 22 20:25:44 <Aerrow>        np*
  358. Sep 22 20:25:44 <iss>   prem it's pretty hard if you have an opponent who has any idea what they're doing
  359. Sep 22 20:25:49 <iss>   also priority ...
  360. Sep 22 20:25:52 <prem>  priority...
  361. Sep 22 20:25:55 <MarceloDK>     lol
  362. Sep 22 20:25:59 <comatt6>       well then there's protect =/
  363. Sep 22 20:26:01 <prem>  the common one is groagunk vw?
  364. Sep 22 20:26:05 <comatt6>       eq + rs is pretty good coverage
  365. Sep 22 20:26:06 <prem>  what else is common
  366. Sep 22 20:26:10 <iss>   mienfoo fake out
  367. Sep 22 20:26:11 <MarceloDK>     sandsherew dgaf about priority
  368. Sep 22 20:26:13 <iss>   murkrow sucker punch
  369. Sep 22 20:26:14 <comatt6>       or are we not talking about fake out
  370. Sep 22 20:26:15 <MarceloDK>     just aqua jet, but lol
  371. Sep 22 20:26:15 <prem>  is fake out still common?
  372. Sep 22 20:26:17 <elevator_music>        sandshrew and drilbur and hippo share a lot of pokemon that the former two cant set up on and are threatened by
  373. Sep 22 20:26:19 <iss>   sandshrew is weak though
  374. Sep 22 20:26:19 <prem>  murkrow wins anyway
  375. Sep 22 20:26:22 <prem>  no matter what
  376. Sep 22 20:26:25 <iss>   the problem is if you go double rush
  377. Sep 22 20:26:26 <comatt6>       murkrow sucker punch doens't ohko sandshrew
  378. Sep 22 20:26:28 <elevator_music>        you cant cover all of them with 3 pokemon
  379. Sep 22 20:26:30 <iss>   you only have two slots left
  380. Sep 22 20:26:32 <iss>   three*
  381. Sep 22 20:26:38 <iss>   so you actually just die to stuff like
  382. Sep 22 20:26:39 <elevator_music>        so all the opponent needs to do
  383. Sep 22 20:26:39 <MarceloDK>     @emma
  384. Sep 22 20:26:43 <MarceloDK>     you don't need to
  385. Sep 22 20:26:43 <elevator_music>        is keep one of those pokemon in
  386. Sep 22 20:26:46 <iss>   snover or scarf porygon or anything
  387. Sep 22 20:26:46 <elevator_music>        lol
  388. Sep 22 20:26:50 <MarceloDK>     it's a offensive team
  389. Sep 22 20:27:02 <MarceloDK>     u don't need to cover everything
  390. Sep 22 20:27:03 <elevator_music>        yeah but if you have nothing that can switch into like
  391. Sep 22 20:27:04 <elevator_music>        lileep
  392. Sep 22 20:27:05 <blarajan>      marcelo you're completely and utterly overestimating how easy it is to slap on an offensive little cup team and win
  393. Sep 22 20:27:06 <elevator_music>        or staryu
  394. Sep 22 20:27:12 <elevator_music>        you're going to lose
  395. Sep 22 20:27:14 <blarajan>      you're taking prem's side of the argument
  396. Sep 22 20:27:18 <blarajan>      because he uses offensive teams
  397. Sep 22 20:27:18 <iss>   i mean snover simply shits on double rush completely tbh
  398. Sep 22 20:27:23 <iss>   double rush is an autoloss vs snover
  399. Sep 22 20:27:25 <blarajan>      guess how often he actually wins?
  400. Sep 22 20:27:27 <MarceloDK>     lol
  401. Sep 22 20:27:29 <blarajan>      not frequently
  402. Sep 22 20:27:30 <prem>  iss
  403. Sep 22 20:27:31 <comatt6>       I use offensive teams
  404. Sep 22 20:27:31 <elevator_music>        lol
  405. Sep 22 20:27:33 <comatt6>       that being said
  406. Sep 22 20:27:36 <prem>  there are ways around a snover
  407. Sep 22 20:27:38 <blarajan>      by offensive i mean
  408. Sep 22 20:27:40 <prem>  in a double rush team lol
  409. Sep 22 20:27:43 <blarajan>      let's run life orb on everything!!
  410. Sep 22 20:27:43 <comatt6>       I do not believe that drilbur/double rush is broken
  411. Sep 22 20:27:43 <MarceloDK>     hippo sand drilbur wynaut houndour lileep
  412. Sep 22 20:27:50 <comatt6>       lol blara
  413. Sep 22 20:27:53 <prem>  lol blara
  414. Sep 22 20:27:55 <blarajan>      ok so you are pretty shit on by lileep
  415. Sep 22 20:27:56 <prem>  i dont do that much anymore
  416. Sep 22 20:27:56 <MarceloDK>     lileep can switch on staryu and lileep
  417. Sep 22 20:27:56 <blarajan>      in its entirety
  418. Sep 22 20:28:03 <blarajan>      toxic lileep
  419. Sep 22 20:28:06 <iss>   still
  420. Sep 22 20:28:08 <blarajan>      fucks with that team
  421. Sep 22 20:28:09 <iss>   the problem remains
  422. Sep 22 20:28:10 <blarajan>      really fucking hard
  423. Sep 22 20:28:11 <MarceloDK>     also tickle wynaut + pursuit
  424. Sep 22 20:28:15 <iss>   you have so few switchins for common pokemon
  425. Sep 22 20:28:22 <prem>  fuck switching in
  426. Sep 22 20:28:23 <iss>   you basically lose something every time
  427. Sep 22 20:28:25 <prem>  on offensive teams
  428. Sep 22 20:28:26 <blarajan>      murkrow fucks with that team
  429. Sep 22 20:28:27 <iss>   and you can't ohko things
  430. Sep 22 20:28:29 <MarceloDK>     u really don't need to switch, dude
  431. Sep 22 20:28:29 <blarajan>      tirtouga fucks with that team
  432. Sep 22 20:28:36 <blarajan>      magnemite fucks with that team with magnet rise
  433. Sep 22 20:28:38 <iss>   you can't ohko things without using swords dance
  434. Sep 22 20:28:40 <iss>   that's the problem
  435. Sep 22 20:28:43 <MarceloDK>     nah
  436. Sep 22 20:28:44 <blarajan>      mienfoo fucks with that team
  437. Sep 22 20:28:46 <prem>  that idk about
  438. Sep 22 20:28:46 <MarceloDK>     houndour
  439. Sep 22 20:28:49 <MarceloDK>     nah
  440. Sep 22 20:28:50 <prem>  but switching in
  441. Sep 22 20:28:51 <blarajan>      it's really not that hard or what you're fucking talking about
  442. Sep 22 20:28:51 <MarceloDK>     hippo
  443. Sep 22 20:28:53 <prem>  is useless in offensive teams
  444. Sep 22 20:28:53 <prem>  lol
  445. Sep 22 20:29:01 <MarceloDK>     yes
  446. Sep 22 20:29:04 <blarajan>      oh my you mean hippopotas is a reliable check to mienfoo now??
  447. Sep 22 20:29:07 <blarajan>      gahhhhh!
  448. Sep 22 20:29:11 <blarajan>      shit
  449. Sep 22 20:29:14 <prem>  hippo is horrible
  450. Sep 22 20:29:17 <MarceloDK>     sands can setup on mienfoo's face
  451. Sep 22 20:29:17 <prem>  in most cases
  452. Sep 22 20:29:17 <prem>  lol
  453. Sep 22 20:29:18 <blarajan>      i've been playing the wrong tier
  454. Sep 22 20:29:21 <blarajan>      dammit
  455. Sep 22 20:29:24 <comatt6>       hippo doesn't beat mienfoo
  456. Sep 22 20:29:26 <comatt6>       lol blara
  457. Sep 22 20:29:27 <prem>  hippo loses
  458. Sep 22 20:29:30 <prem>  most of the time
  459. Sep 22 20:29:31 <prem>  unless
  460. Sep 22 20:29:32 <prem>  LO EQ
  461. Sep 22 20:29:36 <iss>   i mean the whole problem with double rush is that it is an instaloss against so many things
  462. Sep 22 20:29:38 <prem>  which is fun
  463. Sep 22 20:29:43 <iss>   it is great if your opponent doesn't have counters
  464. Sep 22 20:29:54 <iss>   but that mean they have terrible teambuilding skils
  465. Sep 22 20:30:00 <iss>   skills*
  466. Sep 22 20:30:07 <MarceloDK>     iss
  467. Sep 22 20:30:10 <elevator_music>        this isnt ou, there are no instalosses -.-
  468. Sep 22 20:30:12 <MarceloDK>     instaloss against what?
  469. Sep 22 20:30:18 <comatt6>       iss that's a pretty big assumption
  470. Sep 22 20:30:21 <iss>   any competent snover user
  471. Sep 22 20:30:26 <iss>   scarf porygon
  472. Sep 22 20:30:26 <MarceloDK>     lol
  473. Sep 22 20:30:30 <iss>   teams with 2+ priority moves
  474. Sep 22 20:30:33 <comatt6>       but with the magnitude of all the fighting-types
  475. Sep 22 20:30:33 <MarceloDK>     > wynaut and houndour
  476. Sep 22 20:30:41 <comatt6>       ...
  477. Sep 22 20:30:41 <MarceloDK>     u shit on snover and poryscarf
  478. Sep 22 20:30:45 <iss>   no one's going to get snover trapped by wynaut
  479. Sep 22 20:30:49 <prem>  why not
  480. Sep 22 20:30:50 <prem>  lol
  481. Sep 22 20:30:50 <iss>   and houndour gets 2-3hkoed
  482. Sep 22 20:30:55 <MarceloDK>     u can sent hippo on wynaut
  483. Sep 22 20:31:04 <prem>  let them kill something with snover
  484. Sep 22 20:31:04 <MarceloDK>     *snover
  485. Sep 22 20:31:04 <comatt6>       marcelo...what?
  486. Sep 22 20:31:06 <prem>  trap with wynaut
  487. Sep 22 20:31:07 <comatt6>       oh ok
  488. Sep 22 20:31:12 <MarceloDK>     than sent wynaut
  489. Sep 22 20:31:13 <iss>   because obviously the threat of wynaut is there
  490. Sep 22 20:31:15 <comatt6>       or just sac something vs snover
  491. Sep 22 20:31:18 <prem>  so
  492. Sep 22 20:31:19 <blarajan>      OH FUCK
  493. Sep 22 20:31:19 <comatt6>       then switch in wynaut
  494. Sep 22 20:31:20 <blarajan>      YOU MEAN
  495. Sep 22 20:31:21 <iss>   so you bait wynaut
  496. Sep 22 20:31:23 <blarajan>      A TEAM THAT IS PERFECTLY SUPPORTED
  497. Sep 22 20:31:24 <prem>  they wont use snover ever?
  498. Sep 22 20:31:28 <blarajan>      WHICH IS BUILT ENTIRELY
  499. Sep 22 20:31:30 <blarajan>      TO MAKE A STRATEGY WORK
  500. Sep 22 20:31:37 <elevator_music>        blarajan stop it
  501. Sep 22 20:31:41 <blarajan>      AND WHICH SUCCEEDS WHEN THE TEAM STRATEGY WORKS
  502. Sep 22 20:31:41 <prem>  ya lol
  503. Sep 22 20:31:41 <comatt6>       blarajan...
  504. Sep 22 20:31:42 <blarajan>      IS BROKEN
  505. Sep 22 20:31:46 <blarajan>      fucking what the hell i hate people
  506. Sep 22 20:31:50 <elevator_music>        blarajan i'm serious
  507. Sep 22 20:31:55 <comatt6>       lol blara
  508. Sep 22 20:32:09 <elevator_music>        be respectful or shut up
  509. Sep 22 20:32:19 <prem>  my general opinion is that drilbur shits on everything ive ever used
  510. Sep 22 20:32:20 <MarceloDK>     it's just an example
  511. Sep 22 20:32:20 <iss>   anyways i mean double rush gets completely wrecked the moment you a) lose either one of drilbur/sandshrew without killing 2+ mons b) lose any of your counters to their counters (wynaut against snover, etc)
  512. Sep 22 20:32:37 <blarajan>      it's difficult to respect stupid comments, em
  513. Sep 22 20:32:40 <prem>  okay it loses if you lose your counter to something
  514. Sep 22 20:32:46 <prem>  blara do it anyway
  515. Sep 22 20:32:48 <iss>   you have one counter
  516. Sep 22 20:32:49 <blarajan>      prem that's just because what you're using is shit on by drilbur
  517. Sep 22 20:32:49 <iss>   and no checks
  518. Sep 22 20:32:51 <iss>   lol
  519. Sep 22 20:32:53 <prem>  no
  520. Sep 22 20:32:59 <prem>  ive tried making defensive teams
  521. Sep 22 20:33:01 <blarajan>      it's different that drilbur shitting on what you use
  522. Sep 22 20:33:06 <prem>  and stolen teams that supposedly arent shit on by drilbur
  523. Sep 22 20:33:08 <iss>   defensive double rush?
  524. Sep 22 20:33:11 <prem>  still ALWAYS shit on by drillbur
  525. Sep 22 20:33:11 <iss>   what
  526. Sep 22 20:33:16 <prem>  lol
  527. Sep 22 20:33:19 <blarajan>      name one
  528. Sep 22 20:33:20 <MarceloDK>     so do you guys REALLY think snover beats double rush?
  529. Sep 22 20:33:24 <prem>  idk i just cant play around that mother fucker :(
  530. Sep 22 20:33:24 <elevator_music>        no
  531. Sep 22 20:33:30 <blarajan>      supposedly well built team that is just shit on by drilbur
  532. Sep 22 20:33:38 <elevator_music>        because pkmn doesnt beat strategy (imo)
  533. Sep 22 20:33:40 <blarajan>      protip: if it's shit on by drilbur, it's not well built
  534. Sep 22 20:33:49 <MarceloDK>     u has 2 drilburs
  535. Sep 22 20:33:51 <prem>  protip: i said a team not shit on by drilbur
  536. Sep 22 20:33:55 <blarajan>      no, you have one sandshrew
  537. Sep 22 20:33:55 <MarceloDK>     1 with more defense
  538. Sep 22 20:33:56 <prem>  and also
  539. Sep 22 20:34:02 <iss>   and way weaker
  540. Sep 22 20:34:02 <iss>   lol
  541. Sep 22 20:34:03 <prem>  stop being so fucking sarcastic
  542. Sep 22 20:34:14 <blarajan>      just not in the mood for this right now lol
  543. Sep 22 20:34:21 <comatt6>       blarajan you can always just leave
  544. Sep 22 20:34:28 <comatt6>       if you're not in the mood for this
  545. Sep 22 20:34:30 <blarajan>      and watch not broken things get banned?
  546. Sep 22 20:34:34 <blarajan>      hell no
  547. Sep 22 20:34:36 <prem>  okay well
  548. Sep 22 20:34:38 <prem>  stop being a dick
  549. Sep 22 20:34:49 <prem>  cause you being one isnt helping for shit
  550. Sep 22 20:35:09 *       Aerrow has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
  551. Sep 22 20:35:10 <iss>   drilbur simply isn't broken
  552. Sep 22 20:35:17 <blarajan>      that's really it
  553. Sep 22 20:35:20 <MarceloDK>     drilbur isn't
  554. Sep 22 20:35:22 <comatt6>       i like what iss said
  555. Sep 22 20:35:23 <prem>  i think it really is broken
  556. Sep 22 20:35:23 <prem>  lol
  557. Sep 22 20:35:24 <MarceloDK>     but double rush is
  558. Sep 22 20:35:24 <iss>   the mere fact that you can provide it an entire team of support
  559. Sep 22 20:35:29 <iss>   and only be an average teams
  560. Sep 22 20:35:30 *       Aerrow (~chatzilla@synIRC-561E7DD6.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #council
  561. Sep 22 20:35:30 *       ChanServ sets mode +q #council Aerrow
  562. Sep 22 20:35:30 *       ChanServ gives channel operator status to Aerrow
  563. Sep 22 20:35:31 <iss>   team*
  564. Sep 22 20:35:33 <iss>   speaks to that
  565. Sep 22 20:35:35 <blarajan>      things seem effective when you build a team designed specifically to support it
  566. Sep 22 20:35:41 <blarajan>      and when the team design works
  567. Sep 22 20:35:42 <MarceloDK>     man
  568. Sep 22 20:35:47 <blarajan>      it's not just use hippo use drilbur use sandshrew and win
  569. Sep 22 20:35:52 <MarceloDK>     but you can counter these teams with shit
  570. Sep 22 20:36:01 <MarceloDK>     double rush you really can solid counter
  571. Sep 22 20:36:07 <MarceloDK>     *cant
  572. Sep 22 20:36:09 <comatt6>       you're going to need more than 3 pokemon to beat the list of counters that beat double rush
  573. Sep 22 20:36:19 <iss>   aerrow when do we vote
  574. Sep 22 20:36:25 <comatt6>       well of course there's no such thing as a solid counter to anything
  575. Sep 22 20:36:26 <blarajan>      when did pokemon become a game of "if i can't counter it effectively with what i want to use" it's broken
  576. Sep 22 20:36:29 <elevator_music>        maybe when rayjay gets back
  577. Sep 22 20:36:31 <comatt6>       in general
  578. Sep 22 20:36:33 <iss>   ok
  579. Sep 22 20:36:36 <elevator_music>        last gen blara
  580. Sep 22 20:36:42 <Aerrow>        where did rayjay go
  581. Sep 22 20:36:44 <Aerrow>        well; you vote when the convo is over
  582. Sep 22 20:36:53 <Aerrow>        rather, when nothing productive comes from it anymore
  583. Sep 22 20:36:55 <blarajan>      instead of a game of "if i can't play well i can't just mindlessly expect to win"
  584. Sep 22 20:37:02 <MarceloDK>     hum i gtg
  585. Sep 22 20:37:04 <Aerrow>        and things get repetitive
  586. Sep 22 20:37:10 <MarceloDK>     will be back in like 1 hour
  587. Sep 22 20:37:14 <MarceloDK>     it's ok? n.n
  588. Sep 22 20:37:16 <comatt6>       ok bai marcelo
  589. Sep 22 20:37:42 <elevator_music>        kk
  590. Sep 22 20:37:44 <elevator_music>        lets talk about krow
  591. Sep 22 20:37:50 <prem>  kk
  592. Sep 22 20:37:52 *       MarceloDK has quit (Quit: )
  593. Sep 22 20:37:53 <iss>   okay
  594. Sep 22 20:37:56 <prem>  drilbur vote will be x-1
  595. Sep 22 20:37:57 <prem>  !
  596. Sep 22 20:38:01 <prem>  anyway
  597. Sep 22 20:38:02 <iss>   my argument on krow
  598. Sep 22 20:38:07 <iss>   is the same one i had against gligar
  599. Sep 22 20:38:17 <iss>   if it's a top threat in the metagame
  600. Sep 22 20:38:18 <prem>  you had no arguement against gligar j/s
  601. Sep 22 20:38:22 <elevator_music>        lol
  602. Sep 22 20:38:23 <elevator_music>        lol
  603. Sep 22 20:38:25 <iss>   being able to secure 1 kill isn't broken
  604. Sep 22 20:38:33 <prem>  like your reason was very very bad and i refuse to accept that as a reason
  605. Sep 22 20:38:39 <prem>  im sorry if thats disrespectful
  606. Sep 22 20:38:41 <iss>   9.9
  607. Sep 22 20:39:08 <comatt6>       murkrow requires team support
  608. Sep 22 20:39:14 <elevator_music>        no it doesnt >_>
  609. Sep 22 20:39:14 <prem>  murkrow requires no team support
  610. Sep 22 20:39:16 <comatt6>       which is why I don't *feel* as if it's *broken*
  611. Sep 22 20:39:20 <prem>  mixkrow is just stick it on a team
  612. Sep 22 20:39:22 <prem>  switch it in
  613. Sep 22 20:39:23 <elevator_music>        i literally just slap mixkrow on any team i want
  614. Sep 22 20:39:24 <prem>  press brave bird
  615. Sep 22 20:39:25 <prem>  something dies
  616. Sep 22 20:39:28 <elevator_music>        you cant switch it in
  617. Sep 22 20:39:30 <iss>   mixkrow doesn't need team support
  618. Sep 22 20:39:35 <comatt6>       well
  619. Sep 22 20:39:36 <iss>   eviolite subroost works tons better with support though
  620. Sep 22 20:39:37 <prem>  anyone who says otherwise is using it wron
  621. Sep 22 20:39:37 <prem>  g
  622. Sep 22 20:39:40 <comatt6>       i'm thinking of the wrong set
  623. Sep 22 20:39:40 <comatt6>       sorry
  624. Sep 22 20:39:43 <elevator_music>        you double switch or
  625. Sep 22 20:39:45 <comatt6>       i use evio subroost
  626. Sep 22 20:39:46 <comatt6>       my bad
  627. Sep 22 20:39:48 <prem>  okay
  628. Sep 22 20:39:49 <comatt6>       i don't use mixkrow
  629. Sep 22 20:39:51 <comatt6>       MY BAD
  630. Sep 22 20:39:52 <elevator_music>        bring it in on like
  631. Sep 22 20:39:54 <prem>  evio subroost needs teamsupport
  632. Sep 22 20:39:55 <prem>  i agree
  633. Sep 22 20:39:57 <elevator_music>        one of the 4 pokemon it can come in on lol
  634. Sep 22 20:39:59 <comatt6>       mixkrow doesn't need support
  635. Sep 22 20:40:14 <blarajan>      the thing is and i personally believe this incredibly strongly
  636. Sep 22 20:40:17 <prem>  i honestly dont know hwo to describe murkrow
  637. Sep 22 20:40:20 <blarajan>      is that while mixkrow is a nuke
  638. Sep 22 20:40:32 <prem>  when i speak about it
  639. Sep 22 20:40:33 <blarajan>      it's one not all that difficult to play around
  640. Sep 22 20:40:34 <iss>   i agree with blarajan
  641. Sep 22 20:40:35 <blarajan>      and two it dies so fast
  642. Sep 22 20:40:41 <blarajan>      like honestly
  643. Sep 22 20:40:42 <blarajan>      sr
  644. Sep 22 20:40:43 <blarajan>      sandstream
  645. Sep 22 20:40:43 <prem>  being able to kill like 2 mons almost most games
  646. Sep 22 20:40:49 <comatt6>       you can either give it power or longevity
  647. Sep 22 20:40:50 <prem>  almost all games*
  648. Sep 22 20:40:50 <blarajan>      life orb damage
  649. Sep 22 20:40:51 <blarajan>      priority
  650. Sep 22 20:40:52 <blarajan>      fake out
  651. Sep 22 20:40:53 <comatt6>       that's p much the tossup
  652. Sep 22 20:40:57 <blarajan>      living a hit and hitting back
  653. Sep 22 20:40:59 <blarajan>      those sorts of things
  654. Sep 22 20:41:00 <elevator_music>        i have to agree
  655. Sep 22 20:41:00 <prem>  but when you play it
  656. Sep 22 20:41:05 <prem>  it just
  657. Sep 22 20:41:10 <prem>  is really managable
  658. Sep 22 20:41:12 <elevator_music>        mixkrow is honestly the strongest pokemon in lc
  659. Sep 22 20:41:13 <elevator_music>        but
  660. Sep 22 20:41:14 <iss>   here's my take
  661. Sep 22 20:41:19 <blarajan>      it being able to kill two mons or something requires you to play well
  662. Sep 22 20:41:22 <iss>   lo + brave bird is really really strong but dies really fast
  663. Sep 22 20:41:24 <blarajan>      and your opponent not to play well lol
  664. Sep 22 20:41:29 <iss>   eviolite subroost is just so hard to play correctly
  665. Sep 22 20:41:34 <blarajan>      and when your nuke is dying in like honestly two brave birds tops
  666. Sep 22 20:41:38 <elevator_music>        yeah realistically it has trouble staying in and doing major damage
  667. Sep 22 20:41:40 <blarajan>      it's not that difficult
  668. Sep 22 20:41:40 <prem>  okay being able to kill 2 things and dying fast
  669. Sep 22 20:41:43 <prem>  is sitll a +1 for you
  670. Sep 22 20:41:46 <iss>   yes but
  671. Sep 22 20:41:46 <prem>  so thats not a negative
  672. Sep 22 20:41:47 <prem>  !
  673. Sep 22 20:41:49 <blarajan>      theory wise it's like
  674. Sep 22 20:41:50 <iss>   when it's a top pokemon
  675. Sep 22 20:41:51 <blarajan>      holy fucking fuck
  676. Sep 22 20:41:54 <iss>   killing 2 is not broken
  677. Sep 22 20:41:54 <blarajan>      this thing is ridonkulous
  678. Sep 22 20:41:58 <prem>  ya its not broken
  679. Sep 22 20:41:59 <blarajan>      but when you play it it's like
  680. Sep 22 20:41:59 <prem>  lol
  681. Sep 22 20:42:00 <iss>   since some pokemon are just better than others
  682. Sep 22 20:42:03 <blarajan>      i can force it out with any priority move
  683. Sep 22 20:42:10 <iss>   also it can't switch in ever
  684. Sep 22 20:42:11 <blarajan>      or anything
  685. Sep 22 20:42:13 <elevator_music>        yeah, exactly
  686. Sep 22 20:42:13 <prem>  if it can take a sucker punch
  687. Sep 22 20:42:16 <blarajan>      and then bam rocks and bam you're p much dead
  688. Sep 22 20:42:23 <comatt6>       mhmm
  689. Sep 22 20:42:27 <Charmander>    mixkrow can even be setup bait sometimes....
  690. Sep 22 20:42:28 <blarajan>      also stop using occa magnemite
  691. Sep 22 20:42:30 <Charmander>    like tirtouga
  692. Sep 22 20:42:32 <blarajan>      whoever the hell is doing that
  693. Sep 22 20:42:32 <elevator_music>        lol occa
  694. Sep 22 20:42:34 <blarajan>      eviolite lives
  695. Sep 22 20:42:36 <blarajan>      a heat wave
  696. Sep 22 20:42:36 <iss>   also can i say something
  697. Sep 22 20:42:37 <blarajan>      stop doing that
  698. Sep 22 20:42:39 <iss>   like
  699. Sep 22 20:42:47 <iss>   the stuff heysup has posted
  700. Sep 22 20:42:56 <iss>   it really feels super theorymonny
  701. Sep 22 20:43:08 <prem>  doesnt
  702. Sep 22 20:43:09 <iss>   it's like if i theorymoned i'd get the same conclusion
  703. Sep 22 20:43:15 <comatt6>       not as much
  704. Sep 22 20:43:20 <prem>  occa reduce the same as eviolite
  705. Sep 22 20:43:21 <prem>  lol
  706. Sep 22 20:43:22 <iss>   but since i play i sort of get a completely different idea
  707. Sep 22 20:43:23 <comatt6>       iss i see what you're saying but not to that extent
  708. Sep 22 20:43:30 <blarajan>      nah occa is half
  709. Sep 22 20:43:31 <iss>   nah prem occa is 2x evio is 1.5
  710. Sep 22 20:43:32 <blarajan>      eviolite is 1.5
  711. Sep 22 20:43:33 <prem>  oh
  712. Sep 22 20:43:35 <comatt6>       ^
  713. Sep 22 20:43:47 <blarajan>      yeah exactly
  714. Sep 22 20:43:50 <comatt6>       wait
  715. Sep 22 20:43:50 <elevator_music>        nah i disagree
  716. Sep 22 20:43:54 <comatt6>       who uses occa mag?
  717. Sep 22 20:43:56 <blarajan>      all in all lo krow is on paper a fucking crazy super bamf
  718. Sep 22 20:43:57 <Charmander>    plus I dont think 1.5 defense equates to a 33% damage reduction since
  719. Sep 22 20:44:00 <Charmander>    there are other factors like HP
  720. Sep 22 20:44:01 <blarajan>      but when you play it it's really not that bad
  721. Sep 22 20:44:08 <Charmander>    occa is just a direct 1/2 damage
  722. Sep 22 20:44:12 <Charmander>    eviolite is more complicated
  723. Sep 22 20:44:14 <elevator_music>        it doesnt equate lol
  724. Sep 22 20:44:15 <Charmander>    you cant really compare them
  725. Sep 22 20:44:17 <iss>   mixkrow is a seen on tv pokemon
  726. Sep 22 20:44:22 <iss>   it looks great when you first see it
  727. Sep 22 20:44:26 <blarajan>      also eviolite sub roost just isn't hard to beat at all
  728. Sep 22 20:44:26 <Charmander>    other than they both survive  heat wave
  729. Sep 22 20:44:29 <blarajan>      so we're not even discussing that
  730. Sep 22 20:44:30 <blarajan>      right
  731. Sep 22 20:44:30 <prem>  it is great wwhenever you see it
  732. Sep 22 20:44:30 <iss>   but actually isn't quite as good as it seems
  733. Sep 22 20:44:38 <elevator_music>        because damage calcs truncate and round at like every step
  734. Sep 22 20:44:41 <comatt6>       are we only discussing mixkrow?
  735. Sep 22 20:44:44 <Charmander>    archen hard counters non lo krow
  736. Sep 22 20:44:47 <blarajan>      honestly i think we should be
  737. Sep 22 20:44:50 <Charmander>    and still counters lo krow that isnt mixed
  738. Sep 22 20:44:51 <blarajan>      because any eviolite krow
  739. Sep 22 20:44:53 <blarajan>      is just not problematic
  740. Sep 22 20:44:54 <blarajan>      lol
  741. Sep 22 20:44:55 <elevator_music>        archen hardcounters like every krow
  742. Sep 22 20:44:59 <iss>   yeah
  743. Sep 22 20:45:01 <elevator_music>        except lo dark pulse
  744. Sep 22 20:45:02 <Charmander>    not lo mixkrow
  745. Sep 22 20:45:03 <Charmander>    yeah
  746. Sep 22 20:45:06 <blarajan>      what about sucker punch
  747. Sep 22 20:45:09 <Charmander>    roost
  748. Sep 22 20:45:11 <blarajan>      oh i guess you can just roost a lot
  749. Sep 22 20:45:12 <iss>   sub then roost
  750. Sep 22 20:45:14 <Charmander>    yeah
  751. Sep 22 20:45:15 <iss>   and rock slide
  752. Sep 22 20:45:17 <Charmander>    dont use sub
  753. Sep 22 20:45:18 <Charmander>    lol
  754. Sep 22 20:45:24 <comatt6>       sub on archen is bad
  755. Sep 22 20:45:25 <iss>   fine
  756. Sep 22 20:45:27 <iss>   w/e
  757. Sep 22 20:45:30 <Charmander>    sub is basically like
  758. Sep 22 20:45:30 <prem>  sub on archen is shit
  759. Sep 22 20:45:31 <comatt6>       you're just getting closer to defeatist
  760. Sep 22 20:45:35 <Charmander>    "i want defeatist to activate"
  761. Sep 22 20:45:55 <elevator_music>        i agree with most of heysup's post
  762. Sep 22 20:46:23 <elevator_music>        just not the part he underlined and bolded
  763. Sep 22 20:46:26 <blarajan>      i would agree with heysup's post is if it ever worked that way when using or playing against murkrow
  764. Sep 22 20:46:29 <elevator_music>        because in practice that never happens
  765. Sep 22 20:46:43 <iss>   i mean i feel
  766. Sep 22 20:46:47 <blarajan>      and since it doesn't hold in practice i don't care how it works in theory
  767. Sep 22 20:46:49 <iss>   the main argument for banning mixkrow
  768. Sep 22 20:46:57 <iss>   is that "it kills 3 pokemon before recoil kills it"
  769. Sep 22 20:47:03 <iss>   but that never actually works
  770. Sep 22 20:47:19 <blarajan>      if it wasn't apparent my vote is no ban for both
  771. Sep 22 20:47:39 <comatt6>       i don't see how mixkrow can get 3 kills
  772. Sep 22 20:47:43 <comatt6>       blarajan it was pretty apparent
  773. Sep 22 20:48:23 <prem>  my vote is ban drilbur
  774. Sep 22 20:48:23 <prem>  !
  775. Sep 22 20:48:32 <prem>  who woulda guessed
  776. Sep 22 20:48:43 <iss>   how surprising prem
  777. Sep 22 20:48:46 <prem>  i know!
  778. Sep 22 20:49:13 <blarajan>      can we just vote lol why do we have to wait?
  779. Sep 22 20:49:25 <prem>  we need rayjay and marcelo here?
  780. Sep 22 20:49:35 <blarajan>      ok so they vote when they come back >.<
  781. Sep 22 20:49:39 <prem>  idk
  782. Sep 22 20:49:42 <blarajan>      i know ray jay's vote anyways
  783. Sep 22 20:49:47 <prem>  we could if aerrow says something
  784. Sep 22 20:49:50 <elevator_music>        discussion is pretty much over
  785. Sep 22 20:49:51 <prem>  says okay*
  786. Sep 22 20:49:57 <elevator_music>        its just i'd rather wait for marcelo to come back
  787. Sep 22 20:49:57 <prem>  we all agree on murkrow
  788. Sep 22 20:50:06 <elevator_music>        so we can "discuss" drilbur more
  789. Sep 22 20:50:08 <blarajan>      sorry i was a dick i'm just really not having a good day
  790. Sep 22 20:50:09 <blarajan>      lol
  791. Sep 22 20:50:23 <comatt6>       mhmm
  792. Sep 22 20:50:34 <comatt6>       so we're all in favor of keeping murkrow?
  793. Sep 22 20:50:40 <prem>  basically
  794. Sep 22 20:50:42 <elevator_music>        we can revisit double rush in the future if it ever does become just too dominant
  795. Sep 22 20:50:42 <blarajan>      i think i finally fixed my stupid fucking h key
  796. Sep 22 20:50:44 <prem>  i mean us 5 do
  797. Sep 22 20:50:47 <elevator_music>        but thats pretty obviously not the case
  798. Sep 22 20:50:49 <blarajan>      which has been pissing me off in the past twenty minutes
  799. Sep 22 20:50:55 <prem>  so
  800. Sep 22 20:50:57 <prem>  its not getting banned
  801. Sep 22 20:50:57 <comatt6>       cool story bro
  802. Sep 22 20:50:58 <blarajan>      since it would just press h when i typed around it
  803. Sep 22 20:51:04 <comatt6>       ok keep murkrow
  804. Sep 22 20:51:06 <blarajan>      was annoying as hell but i finally fixed that fucker
  805. Sep 22 20:51:07 <elevator_music>        aerrow, we're probably going to vote now?
  806. Sep 22 20:51:07 <comatt6>       i can live with that
  807. Sep 22 20:51:11 <blarajan>      my laptop is finally not annoying
  808. Sep 22 20:51:13 <blarajan>      OKAY
  809. Sep 22 20:51:14 <Aerrow>        go ahead
  810. Sep 22 20:51:15 <blarajan>      DRILBUR VOTE
  811. Sep 22 20:51:17 <prem>  BAN
  812. Sep 22 20:51:19 <blarajan>      rajan==no ban
  813. Sep 22 20:51:26 <iss>   no ban
  814. Sep 22 20:51:30 <iss>   9.9
  815. Sep 22 20:51:48 <blarajan>      (ray jay votes no ban just saying but w/e)
  816. Sep 22 20:51:55 <iss>   i think we should just wait
  817. Sep 22 20:51:59 <elevator_music>        no ban
  818. Sep 22 20:51:59 <iss>   until we do this officially
  819. Sep 22 20:52:02 <elevator_music>        but "ok"
  820. Sep 22 20:52:05 <elevator_music>        we can do it by pm lol
  821. Sep 22 20:52:07 <prem>  LOL
  822. Sep 22 20:52:09 <prem>  okay
  823. Sep 22 20:52:32 <comatt6>       no ban
  824. Sep 22 20:53:13 <elevator_music>        that means no ban anyways
  825. Sep 22 20:53:18 <elevator_music>        since 4 of us agree
  826. Sep 22 20:53:19 <Aerrow>        sum up the bans
  827. Sep 22 20:53:20 <elevator_music>        but ok
  828. Sep 22 20:53:26 <Aerrow>        the votes*
  829. Sep 22 20:53:31 <Aerrow>        how many in favor of banning
  830. Sep 22 20:53:37 <iss>   at leash 1 (prem
  831. Sep 22 20:53:47 <iss>   at least 4 against banning (iss, blarajan, em, comatt)
  832. Sep 22 20:53:49 <elevator_music>        1 ban, 4 no ban, marcelo and rayjay dont matter
  833. Sep 22 20:53:56 <prem>  okay so
  834. Sep 22 20:53:56 <Aerrow>        alright
  835. Sep 22 20:53:58 <prem>  its nothing banned
  836. Sep 22 20:53:59 <iss>   this is for drilbur
  837. Sep 22 20:53:59 <prem>  lol
  838. Sep 22 20:54:08 <prem>  we all agree no murkrow ban right?
  839. Sep 22 20:54:17 <iss>   okay murkrow vote now
  840. Sep 22 20:54:18 <iss>   i guess
  841. Sep 22 20:54:25 <prem>  NO BA
  842. Sep 22 20:54:26 <prem>  N
  843. Sep 22 20:54:26 <iss>   no ban
  844. Sep 22 20:54:53 <iss>   blarajan em comatt?
  845. Sep 22 20:55:03 <blarajan>      no ban on either
  846. Sep 22 20:55:09 <blarajan>      meta is perect
  847. Sep 22 20:55:12 <blarajan>      fect
  848. Sep 22 20:55:32 <iss>   comatt6
  849. Sep 22 20:57:45 <blarajan>      can we temporarily dissolve the council lol
  850. Sep 22 20:57:51 <blarajan>      after this vote it's not like it matters
  851. Sep 22 20:57:55 <blarajan>      since the meta's not changing
  852. Sep 22 20:58:19 <blarajan>      unless shit like idk sheer force totodile become broken or we figure out how to make double rush actually broken
  853. Sep 22 20:58:20 <blarajan>      or something idk
  854. Sep 22 20:58:27 <blarajan>      it's not like we need to do anything since our tier doesn't change
  855. Sep 22 20:58:34 <comatt6>       i'm back
  856. Sep 22 20:58:35 <comatt6>       sorry
  857. Sep 22 20:58:36 <comatt6>       what
  858. Sep 22 20:58:38 <comatt6>       no ban
  859. Sep 22 20:58:44 <iss>   okay that's 4
  860. Sep 22 20:58:50 <iss>   no one confirmed for ban
  861. Sep 22 20:59:00 <iss>   four for no ban (iss, blarajan, prem, comatt6)
  862. Sep 22 20:59:03 <iss>   i guess that's it
  863. Sep 22 20:59:04 <comatt6>       does this mean i can go do my hw now
  864. Sep 22 20:59:11 <blarajan>      y
  865. Sep 22 20:59:12 <iss>   thanks for coming out everyone
  866. Sep 22 20:59:13 <prem>  lol
  867. Sep 22 20:59:14 <iss>   it's been real
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