[11:15] <Lasseter> And I'm still not giving out my info to third parties who are not clear what they will do with it.  I need to see a plan and an agreement first.
[11:16] == mikkom [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[11:16] <yerp> besides, have the people's he's probably collected are fake info
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[11:20] <shortusername> Lasseter: agree
[11:20] <Lasseter> yerp:  no, there is another site where he collects real info.  Uses sessions from your gox.com check.
[11:21] <CatKiller> What's the deal with mtgoxrecovery.com?
[11:21] <Lasseter> In other words, you pass your login over to that sight to have to suck in your balance details.
[11:21] <CatKiller> Is it to sign up for a class action or something? What's this talk of "getting back %"?
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[11:22] <yerp> lasseter: ohhh, another one of those, ok.
[11:22] == faouanima [~faouanima@unaffiliated/faouanima] has joined ##mtgox-talk
[11:22] <yerp> ya i wont be dumping cookies into any of those sites.
[11:23] <yerp> sorry i thought he had just the 1 site.
[11:24] <shortusername> CatKiller: i'd forget about it, the owner has gone awol from this chat after not answering a few simple questions..... smells fishy
[11:25] <yerp> wasn't he in here answering a few questions hours ago
[11:25] <CatKiller> shortusername: Thanks, looked that way too
[11:25] <yerp> or was the mtgox-statement
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[11:25] <shortusername> http://pastebin.com/zqfxVCAP
[11:26] <esse-> so nothing will happen before out in may .. great
[11:26] <shortusername> yerp:  dunno but i trust him about asmuch as mark K while he isnt providing transparency... law firm details etc.  we dont know his plan
[11:26] <yerp> ya i agree
[11:27] <CatKiller> But is he starting a class action or something?
[11:27] == meelos [[email protected]] has quit [Client Quit]
[11:27] <CatKiller> What's the deal right now? Give me your e-mail address if you were on mtgox?
[11:27] <yerp> building a support base maybe for future case
[11:27] <CatKiller> doesn't everybody have those anyways along with photo ids and passwords? :p
[11:27] <yerp> i dont think u can do a case right now really
[11:27] <yerp> kinda pointless when he's protected
[11:28] <CatKiller> There's a lot of maybes
[11:28] <yerp> unless he loses that protection due to fraud charges or something
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[11:28] <CatKiller> And at the end of the day, nobody was able to track down the missing coins?
[11:28] <CatKiller> Wasn't anarchystar the one saying that "they" had found all the rest of the btc and that there was going to be a statement from mtgox "soon"?
[11:29] <yerp> no that was some twitter tool
[11:29] <shortusername> CatKiller:  no that came from a turkish guy on twitter
[11:29] <CatKiller> ah ok
[11:29] <CatKiller> So at the end of the day it's the same thing
[11:29] <keus> CatKiller: anarchy said that the 650k thing is not true because "insider" told him that it's not. lol
[11:29] <CatKiller> 650k found you mean?
[11:29] <CatKiller> or 650k lost?
[11:30] <keus> found
[11:30] <CatKiller> He could have known from a reliably source but to me, a novice
[11:30] <shortusername> anarchys "insider" was probably just the supervisor who he rang & managed to get an answer out of if they did find anymore coins etc
[11:30] <CatKiller> whether he's called anarchystar or ygtekijt makes no difference
[11:30] <keus> unfortunately. though i dont know who is that "insider"
[11:31] <esse-> not likely to be the supervisor as he did not even know about the 200k when Oliviers lawyer called to ask about it
[11:31] <CatKiller> You can't trust anyone on the matter really except that you can trust what has been officially reported has been reported by the people it claims it has been
[11:31] <esse-> also the insider said that the turkish guy was a pump & dumper - and that was correct.
[11:31] <shortusername> esse-:  ok well we dont know the coins have not been found yet either
[11:32] <esse-> what coins? if ur talking about that tweet from the turkish guy its bs
[11:32] <shortusername> esse-:  no im not talking about the tweet,  i mean we dont know the coins havent been found right now
[11:32] <CatKiller> I guess I'm just kicking myself for wanting to withdraw all my coins to paper for *months* and procrastinating, thinking "surely I can leave it another few weeks it's not like MtGox is going anywhere!"
[11:32] <shortusername> anyone can claim anything
[11:32] <CatKiller> how foolish of me
[11:33] <CatKiller> I learned a valuably lesson though!
[11:33] <CatKiller> *valuable
[11:33] <esse-> well delaying until may is a pretty good indicator that they have not done much progress since finding 200k
[11:33] <CatKiller> the lesson is: "Don't....trust....magic...the...gathering...players!"
[11:33] <esse-> also no big movements on the blockchain has been noticed since the 200k
[11:33] <shortusername> esse-:  you could say its also a good indicator the courts believe finding more coins is possible ?
[11:34] <CatKiller> Let's face it: no legal system is adapted to handle this case properly
[11:34] <esse-> shortusername, Japan is very business friendly so I would assume that if they asked for more time they would get it almost by default
[11:34] <esse-> they didnt present any progress report to the court afaik
[11:34] <CatKiller> no police departement or financial departement of any governement is adapted for such a case
[11:34] <esse-> so most likely just a standard request
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[11:35] <shortusername> esse-:  some coins could be found but not moved,  only need to get 200k coins ready for rehab etc.... its possible some are already found
[11:36] <esse-> shortusername,thats pretty thin to base any sort of hope on though.
[11:37] <shortusername> well they did say figures might change
[11:37] <shortusername> and i didnt think they'd ever find 200k to be honest
[11:37] <shortusername> not that i trust them much
[11:38] <epscy> at this point nothing would surprise me
[11:38] <epscy> but that doesn't mean i expect them to find more coins
[11:39] <esse-> shortusername, remember that the community managed to find those coins before it was announced. After that nothing of any importante has been discovered.
[11:39] <shortusername> when they said figures might change they either  a.) have already found more coins or close to it b.) believe they might c.) putting out false hope <  how does false help mark k do we think ?
[11:39] <esse-> importance*
[11:40] <shortusername> esse-:  true,  maybe mark k knows he cant move any coins because the community will catch him,  he could be seeing how much he has to cough up
[11:40] <shortusername> he might have all coins
[11:42] <esse-> then why delay until may for any update to the court
[11:43] <shortusername> & if japan are business friendly they also must be consumer friendly
[11:43] <esse-> if he had the coins get back to business and cancel civil rehabilitation
[11:43] <esse-> shortusername, how does that follow?
[11:43] <shortusername> because he wants to steal some?
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[11:46] <shortusername> or here my wild theory:
[11:46] == kcinolo [4c1f09b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.31.9.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[11:47] <epscy> esse-: i'm very sceptical about "the community finding those coins"
[11:47] <epscy> esse-: the community noticed that some coins were moved that were likely to be under gox control at some point in the past
[11:48] <shortusername> he sold alot of personal coins $900+    and this was an attempt to bring price down ( the way he updated about TM lookslike FUD to bring price down).   however things got out of hand,  courts being involved was never planned obviously
[11:48] <epscy> esse-: an now people are making an assumption that if the community hadn't noticed them, they wouldn't have been declared
[11:48] <epscy> esse-: that's baseless as far as i am concerned
[11:48] <shortusername> & now he has to find a way to "discover" the coins he already had all along
[11:48] <shortusername> without going to jail
[11:49] <epscy> there is so little reliable information everyone is scrambling to claim that blockchain movements are proof of things
[11:50] == _ImI_ [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: _ImI_]
[11:53] <faouanima> I just got goxed by Fedex !
[11:54] <faouanima> they stole my canon eos 7D and sent me empty box ! lol
[11:55] <esse-> epscy, well this is - I admit - based on what anarchystar said. He claims that without his lawyer informing the supervisor (who knew nothing about the discovery) Mark would have *probably* continued to keep him in the dark.
[11:55] <Dr-G3> lol
[11:55] <esse-> After all he did take the API down right away after being forced to disclose the 200k coins to the court
[11:56] <epscy> esse-: i'm still sceptical
[11:57] <esse-> yeah its not really feasible to be certain of anything
[11:57] <Dr-G3> yeah hm that was really weird
[11:59] == lisper29 [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[12:01] <shortusername>  theory continued:   after seeing the community originally not able to locate the coins,  mark thought hey... instead of just profiting from price drop, why not steal the coins and offload the business
[12:01] <shortusername> would have maybe worked without crisis doc leak
[12:05] <Hugo2> guys, dont latch to false hope, they guy does not have the coins, otherwise he would still be in business and making money
[12:05] <esse-> ^ +1
[12:05] <esse-> simplest explanation
[12:05] <esse-> common sense goes a long way
[12:06] <shortusername> gox was seriosuly going down hill though,   its just speculation :)
[12:06] <klmist> he would still be in business today if people hadn't filed those lawsuits forcing him to seek bankruptcy protection
[12:06] <shortusername> gox would have like 10% business right now imo
[12:06] <shortusername> if all this didnt happen
[12:06] <esse-> klmist, he shut it all down after the crisis plan leaked
[12:07] <esse-> gox was dying since april bullrun
[12:07] <shortusername> yup
[12:07] <esse-> it seemed to become weaker after every bullrun really
[12:07] <esse-> and this one was the nail in the coffin (maybe)
[12:07] <klmist> maybe
[12:07] <shortusername> when an exchange starts to die thats when they start to think about doing drastic things
[12:08] <shortusername> why he would risk pulling any stunts is beyond me..... but then i look at the TM updates, it looks like FUD to move market or something
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[12:10] <Hugo2> We should also considerate that the guy might be drawning on his own lies and not have a clear plan, just linking one lie after the other to get out of the problem he has in front
[12:10] <klmist> here's an idea.. coinlabs credited their account with the $75m they claimed gox owed them and used it to buy up $75m in bitcoins and withdrew them.. and all this is gox trying to reverse that trade and get the coins back.
[12:11] <Hugo2> or that maybe there was a robbery and Mark hopes the police can get the coins back
[12:12] <klmist> doubtful
[12:12] <Hugo2> we have no idea really of what is going on
[12:12] <klmist> true
[12:12] <esse-> Hugo2, I think the lies have been built up since he took over. Mark was never CEO material, he got bored and lazy - complacent. And now he has to deal with the mess and its too late.
[12:13] <klmist> mtgox was a tiny company hardly needs a 'CEO'
[12:13] <esse-> klmist, then why are we here?
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[12:19] <shortusername> you guys remember when the price crashed from $266 to $50,   and gox was shut for "market cool down"   <  translation,  mark k just rebought @ $50-$60 and doesnt want the price dropping further so cuts the power
[12:20] <Hugo2> esse-, we are here because we love the good ol'gox drama
[12:21] == utfib [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[12:21] <EnnnE> shortusername: that's speculation
[12:22] <shortusername> EnnnE: yeah its all speculation here.   i think it has some logic though,  he is a human,  human desires endless,  he owns gox, gox controlled market price at that time,   why not profit?
[12:22] <jbenedetto> I WANT TO GET OFF MT. GOXS WILD RIDE
[12:23] <shortusername> if not..... what is "market cool down" ?   at very least he didnt want bitcoin price to drop further than $50
[12:23] <Hugo2> shortusername, wasnt the cut because there was like 1hour and a half of lag?
[12:23] <EnnnE> well, apparently there was this bot that traded for mtgox.
[12:23] <EnnnE> what was the name..? thk?
[12:23] <EnnnE> willy?
[12:23] <esse-> willy
[12:23] <esse-> I watched that bot for months
[12:23] <shortusername> Hugo2:  they have millions and millions and cant fix lag?  they kept the lag on purpose i think.
[12:23] <Alvo> for the sake of humanity, do not allow MK to do business anymore but put him in jail
[12:24] <Hugo2> anarchystar said he would disclose soon some actions by Karpeles that would show everybody he is a crook, has he?
[12:24] <esse-> shortusername, gox trade engine can handle 7 trades/s :)
[12:24] <shortusername> esse-:  yeah they kept that for times where they could use it as excuse
[12:25] <shortusername> they had 80% of market, no need to work harder until they had to
[12:25] <esse-> and then the eternal delay of midas to fix it
[12:25] <esse-> just incredible lack of a competent and eager leader to stay ahead of the flock
[12:25] <esse-> complacent as mentioned
[12:26] <shortusername> easier to manipulate the market, then to actually provide a decent service and make 0.6% on fees
[12:28] <marcusw> esse-: I thought we were calling him wally the wallbot because he makes walls
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[12:29] <marcusw> also, it's friday, where's that report?
[12:29] <jbenedetto> Bitcoin: backed by comedy gold.
[12:29] <esse-> marcusw, perhaps he did put up walls but from what I witnessed he was buying in increments of 10-19btc every ~9minutes for many weeks
[12:29] <esse-> marcusw, report?
[12:29] <esse-> the one that has been delayed until may?
[12:29] <esse-> ;)
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[12:30] <esse-> marcusw, "We hereby announce that the Tokyo District Court issued today an order extending to May 9, 2014
[12:30] <esse-> the deadline for the examiner to submit the results of its examination."
[12:30] <marcusw> >We hereby announce that the Tokyo District Court issued today an order extending to May 9, 2014
[12:30] <marcusw> GOD DAMMIT GOX
[12:30] <marcusw> just fucking die already
[12:30] <esse-> they will prob. delay it again
[12:30] <marcusw> the little gox that couldn't, but wouldn't die
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[12:35] <Aquent> so the wanker asked for another month!
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[12:35] <shortusername> yup
[12:35] <Aquent> and why not - no one there to say nah sorry mate you cant have more time
[12:35] <esse-> so for april nothing of importance is on the known agenda
[12:35] <esse-> just waiting
[12:36] <Aquent> was so angry this morning when I saw that
[12:36] <Aquent> another month!
[12:36] <Aquent> they've had two months already to figure out wtf happened
[12:36] <shortusername> Aquent:  thoughts on why hes asking for another month?
[12:36] <Aquent> because he can
[12:36] <Aquent> and he knew he'd get it cus no opposition
[12:36] <shortusername> what does another month give mark k ?
[12:36] <Aquent> how the fuck does he keep having these hearings without telling anyone about them
[12:37] <Aquent> time
[12:37] <Aquent> its not a month its 6 weeks or something
[12:37] <shortusername> yeah,  time to stay out of jail?
[12:37] <Aquent> well he would have told the court he needs further time to figure out what exactly happened
[12:38] <Aquent> if I was in his shoes I probably would have asked same thing
[12:38] <Aquent> just push it further
[12:38] == bumpy [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[12:38] <marcusw> "I forgot how to use bitcoins, pls give me more time for re-reading the wiki again"
[12:38] <Aquent> but there should have been someone from creditors there to say NO
[12:38] <marcusw> "I'm busy looking for privkeys under my cats"
[12:39] <Aquent> your honour he cant have more time
[12:39] <Aquent> he has had 2 months!
[12:39] <marcusw> "REINDEXING"
[12:39] <Aquent> or fine he wants more time give him 1 week, but not 6 weeks!
[12:39] <shortusername> Aquent:   gag order maybe thats why he gets 6 weeks so easy ?
[12:40] <Aquent> no
[12:40] <Aquent> he got 6 weeks easy cus there was no one there for creditors
[12:40] <Aquent> If I was him I would have asked for 3 months
[12:40] <Aquent> well, who knows maybe he did ask for 3 months, but judge said you already had 2 months, so you only get 1 further month
[12:40] <shortusername> maybe we need to find someone in japan to represent us
[12:41] <Aquent> no one knew what time the hearing was or where
[12:41] <Aquent> this is the most underhanded thing in this whole fiasco
[12:41] <Aquent> its clear deception
[12:41] <samson_> These court hearings are for the benefit of MtGox, not us
[12:42] <Aquent> no
[12:42] <Aquent> they for our benefit
[12:42] <samson_> Who wen to the court and initiated them ?
[12:42] <CatKiller> Aquent: Didn't you say he was going to announce he had found all the coins?
[12:42] <Aquent> gox had and has a duty to notify creditors of time and date and place of hearing
[12:42] <samson_> *went
[12:43] <Aquent> samson law is clear whether you in japan or the moon
[12:43] <Aquent> if you want liquidation you notify creditors
[12:43] <samson_> Gox isn't a bank it's just a normal small business that has some debts
[12:43] <Aquent> or rehab or whatever
[12:43] <Aquent> the hearing clearly affects creditors therefore creditors should be notified
[12:43] <Aquent> must rather than should
[12:43] <Aquent> must be notified
[12:43] <shortusername> Aquent:  so he is bribing people ?
[12:43] <Dr-G3> it's the supervisor who wanted more time not gox
[12:43] <Aquent> otherwise whole proceeding is null and void
[12:44] <marcusw> >small business
[12:44] <samson_> I see
[12:44] <shortusername> Dr-G3: was it ?
[12:44] <marcusw> >holding the GDP of a medium-sized pacific island
[12:44] <samson_> Small business is true - LTD company - same as every small grocery store, etc
[12:44] <Aquent> how do you know that Dr-G3?
[12:44] <Dr-G3> read it
[12:45] <Dr-G3> I can't copy the shit
[12:45] <samson_> Perhaps the supervisor doesn't agree with 'the plan'
[12:45] <Dr-G3> We hereby announce that the Tokyo District Court issued today an order extending to May 9, 2014
[12:45] <Dr-G3> the deadline for the examiner to submit the results of its examination."
[12:45] <Dr-G3> the examiner
[12:45] <Dr-G3> an examination order and
[12:45] <Dr-G3> appointed attorney-at-law Nobuaki Kobayashi as examiner.
[12:46] <Dr-G3> Kobayashi = Supervisor = examiner
[12:46] <esse-> might mean that Mark has not been able to present a viable explanation
[12:46] <shortusername> we ned to spoke to the examiner and ask WTF
[12:46] <esse-> so the supervisor has no choice but to ask for a delay
[12:46] <Aquent> doesnt say who requested it
[12:46] <Aquent> the examiner has to prepare the report etc
[12:46] <Dr-G3> it means the supervisor is fucking clueless about bitcoin
[12:47] <Aquent> but its really mk who does everything
[12:47] <Dr-G3> it says the examiner
[12:47] <Dr-G3> nothing to do with gox
[12:47] <shortusername> esse-:  if mark k cant provide what is asked they'd say sorry its liquidation time,  no ?
[12:47] <Dr-G3> the examiner/supervisor didn't finish the examination because he is a braindead bureaucrat from the stone age.
[12:47] <dsfa14> lol
[12:47] <shortusername> Dr-G3:  and he asked for 6 weeks more !!
[12:48] <Aquent> no
[12:48] <Aquent> When I read previous papers
[12:48] <Aquent> I think it is gox
[12:48] <Aquent> who must present it to examiner
[12:48] <Dr-G3> no
[12:48] <Aquent> then examiner to court
[12:48] <Dr-G3> of course they have to work together with him
[12:48] <Dr-G3> but he has a lot of authority and is completly clueless about bitcoin
[12:49] <Aquent> thats very true
[12:49] <Aquent> but
[12:49] <Aquent> gox asked him for more time
[12:49] <Dr-G3> He doesn't even know what the blockchain is
[12:49] <Aquent> and he asked court for more time
[12:49] <Dr-G3> no
[12:49] <Dr-G3> the examiner did
[12:49] <Aquent> so in practice its gox
[12:49] <Dr-G3> no
[12:49] <Aquent> but technicaly its the examiner
[12:49] <Dr-G3> it is only the examiner.
[12:49] <Dr-G3> the examination order was ordered by the court
[12:49] <shortusername> mark k sweet talked the examiner and said hey buddy :).... we need time, you need time,  lets go for starbucks
[12:50] <esse-> the examiner is still reading satoshis whitepaper
[12:50] <Dr-G3> the examiner has to finish the report and he didn't
[12:50] <Aquent> lol
[12:50] <Dr-G3> it's the fucking examiner and not gox
[12:50] <Aquent> I'll try reread previous paper
[12:50] <Dr-G3> just read the current paper
[12:51] <marcusw> the examiner was like
[12:51] <Aquent> Dr-G3 theres a difference between technicality and practicallity
[12:51] <marcusw> "waaaaaaaait a minute, I need some time to buy or short bitcoins before I publish this"
[12:51] <Dr-G3> the examiner was like: I never communicated with bitcom
[12:51] <esse-> marcusw, lol exactly :)
[12:51] <esse-> the supervisor has now become the insider
[12:52] <esse-> Dr-G3, lol!
[12:52] <Dr-G3> no there is not aquent, the examiner has to do his fucking work and he didn't. He has the authority to step on krapeles foot all day for the past month and he didn't
[12:53] <marcusw> the supervisor and mark are now working on a deal where MK ports willy to bitstamp so the examiner can use it during the proceedings, and mark doesn't have to serve time
[12:53] <marcusw> everyone wins!
[12:54] <yerp> Aquent:  how do u know gox asked for more time?
[12:54] <marcusw> yerp: a big fat tux told me
[12:55] <yerp> haha
[12:55] <Aquent> "the rehabilitation debtor shall submit to the
[12:55] <Aquent> Court and to the supervisor no later than on the 10th of the following month a
[12:55] <Aquent> written report on the situation of the business and the administration of the
[12:55] <Aquent> property of the rehabilitation debtor as of the end of each month."
[12:55] <yerp> Aquent:  the administrator could of asked more time for the investigation
[12:55] <Aquent> "The examiner shall investigate the following matters and report in writing its
[12:55] <Aquent> findings no later than on March 28, 2014:"
[12:55] <Aquent> but yeah the examiner too
[12:56] <Dr-G3> only the examiner
[12:56] <yerp> thats who i meant
[12:56] <Dr-G3> gox has to do some report EACH month
[12:56] <yerp> in the english translation it says the court ordered
[12:56] <Dr-G3> but like I said it's the stupid examiner that doesn't do his work
[12:56] <yerp> ha
[12:56] <yerp> do u know the examiner?
[12:56] <Dr-G3> yes
[12:57] <Dr-G3> Ching Chang chong kobayashi
[12:57] <yerp> fuck off
[12:57] == krisha [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[12:57] <yerp> dont be a prick
[12:57] <Dr-G3> don't be a prick to lazy bureaucrats that are living in the stone age
[12:57] <yerp> kobayashi is actually fairly respected
[12:57] <Dr-G3> they need moar time
[12:58] <Dr-G3> to collect tons of fees
[12:58] <Dr-G3> from your money
[12:58] <yerp> i'd rather my money went to kobayashi than some trumped up expat fuckwad lawyer
[12:59] <Dr-G3> doesn't he also charge 1k an hour or who was that
[12:59] <yerp> anyway its all besides the point
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[12:59] <yerp> we want our coinse
[12:59] <yerp> er coins
[12:59] <yerp> more time for him to get a japanese anal probe is fine with me
[12:59] <yerp> mk thatis
[12:59] <Aquent> I dont think the examiner is to blame
[13:00] <Dr-G3> http://www.noandt.com/en/lawyers/nbk.php | is that the guy?
[13:00] <Dr-G3> he is to blame
[13:00] <Aquent> he's a top lawyer for a reason
[13:00] <Aquent> if mk didnt pay him 1k someone else would
[13:00] == anarchystar [sid25022@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iakqszyvulrcnrub] has joined ##mtgox-talk
[13:00] <Dr-G3> he's a moneygrabber like all lawyers and he's clearly not capable of handling a bankruptcy of a bitcoin company with his background
[13:00] <Aquent> point is you would be stupid to not ask for more time
[13:00] <Dr-G3> point is what is he doing for his 1k an hour
[13:00] <yerp> Dr-G3:  and what lawyer is
[13:00] <Aquent> and since no creditor could attend because they had no fucking clue
[13:01] <Aquent> then obviously the asked for more time
[13:01] <yerp> Dr-G3:  so clued up
[13:01] <Aquent> its how law works, thats why you have two sides
[13:01] <yerp> Dr-G3:  at the end of the day, btc is risky, we got screwed, it will take time to sort out
[13:01] <Dr-G3> someone who doesn't have sticks so high in his butt that he's not consulting with experts outside of gox lol
[13:01] <yerp> Dr-G3:  u dont sink real fiat into this not knowing that
[13:01] <anarchystar> all right i will do another 15 minutes of questions :)
[13:02] <yerp> anarchystar:  really
[13:02] <anarchystar> https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140328_delay_extension.pdf -> this is great, it means they take it serious
[13:02] <yerp> anarchystar:  legal firm yet? ;)
[13:02] <Dr-G3> who takes it serious? The supervisor? What has he been doing the last month
[13:02] <anarchystar> yerp: they dont want their name public at this point i cant change that
[13:03] <anarchystar> the examiner yes
[13:03] <yerp> i already said i'd sign an nda
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[13:03] <yerp> and being local in japan, with an expat firm up my ass for breaking that, no thanks
[13:03] <Aquent> "Examiners consider if a company can be saved and, if it can, they
[13:03] <Aquent> prepare the rescue plan."
[13:04] <anarchystar> yerp: ok, i will ask them
[13:04] <Dr-G3> If he's not capable of investigating gox in one month, he should finally accept external consultants from the bitcoin community to find out what happened
[13:04] <yerp> anarchystar:  but i understand its your money
[13:04] <yerp> anarchystar:  so u obviously do what u want.
[13:04] <Aquent> "In examinership, the company’s directors keep their management
[13:04] <Aquent> functions"
[13:04] == clarkcc [0e9a8696@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.154.134.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[13:04] <Aquent> so examiner has NO power
[13:04] <anarchystar> Dr-G3: i asked many times for an expert to be appointed, they law firm tells me this is only done in the second phase and too early now.. i dont know why either
[13:04] <marcusw> anarchystar: seriously, what kind of legal firm even does that?
[13:05] <anarchystar> marcusw: what? i dont follow
[13:05] <Aquent> "the liquidator usually takes over
[13:05] <Aquent> the powers of the directors"
[13:05] <Aquent> a receiver is not a liquidator
[13:05] <Aquent> a liquidator has power to step in etc
[13:05] <Aquent> an examiner is beholden to the company director - mk
[13:05] == tholu [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[13:05] <marcusw> anarchystar: keeping their name private
[13:05] <Dr-G3> it's retarded though, the examiner comes from the stone age and he won't get the right info by asking mtgox. And all the letters sound like they were written by stone age people. The bitcoin terminology is very off.
[13:05] <Aquent> mk should have reported by the end of the month, today, what exactly happened
[13:06] <Aquent> or on the 10th
[13:06] == Alvo [[email protected]] has quit []
[13:06] <marcusw> "X is being represented by an unnamed firm" --nobody ever
[13:06] <Aquent> then the examiner would have made judgment based on the reported fact whether company can be rescued
[13:06] <marcusw> Dr-G3: it was translated
[13:06] <yerp> marcusw:  bitcoiners are bonkers, they will hassle the receptionsist
[13:06] <Aquent> Dr-G3, seems like the examiner cant establish the facts himself
[13:06] <marcusw> Dr-G3: I see more correct technical details in the PDFs than in typical press reports
[13:07] <Aquent> he merely applies the law to the facts
[13:07] <anarchystar> marcusw: its japan.. they are huge on reputation.. its their choice i dont know the rationale behind it.. maybe not to be flooded with calls i dont know
[13:07] <Aquent> the examiner is not an expert
[13:07] <Dr-G3> yes ok
[13:07] <marcusw> anarchystar: ...eh, ok
[13:07] <Dr-G3> but I still doubt lawyers that not familiar with bitcoin are able to pick up the knowledge neccessary in one month
[13:07] <anarchystar> marcusw: if you really want to find out, i think their name is in the unredacted versions at the court :P
[13:07] <yerp> its true, anarchystar may be tied to an agreement himself.
[13:08] <yerp> good point anarchystar
[13:08] <yerp> forget the NDA :)
[13:08] <anarchystar> yerp ;)
[13:08] <yerp> i'll put wifey on it monday
[13:08] <yerp> lo
[13:08] <yerp> lol
[13:08] <Aquent> Dr-G3 he doesnt need the knowledge
[13:08] <Aquent> of bitcoins
[13:08] <shortusername> i only care about knowing the law firm at this point
[13:08] <anarchystar> thats what you call a legal way to get it
[13:08] <anarchystar> :D
[13:08] <Dr-G3> he does
[13:08] <Aquent> what he needs is the facts - he knows the law - so he applies the facts to the law
[13:09] <Dr-G3> hes charging tons of money for his bullshit examination
[13:09] <Dr-G3> and after one month he needs 6 more weeks
[13:09] <Dr-G3> wtf is he doing
[13:09] <samson_> making money
[13:09] <Aquent> well ok you think its the examiner - I think you mistaken
[13:09] <yerp> Dr-G3:  perhaps they know they need to go deeper and bring in technology people
[13:09] <Aquent> I think its mk who asked for the time and the examiner has no choice
[13:09] <yerp> Dr-G3:  maybe anarchystar's queries and points have raised queries for them to look at
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[13:10] <Dr-G3> well their brains seem to work very fast /s
[13:10] <anarchystar> yerp: yes and more will come - they need to get all their computers and do a full investigation, i wont rest before this has happened
[13:11] <Dr-G3> Mark was speaking about something like japanese cyberpolice
[13:11] <Dr-G3> why doesn't he take them on the case
[13:12] <Dr-G3> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/r8s4x/mt_gox_selling_tainted_coins_then_locking/c43y2ti
[13:12] <Dr-G3> here is he talking about them
[13:12] <Dr-G3> 2 years ago
[13:13] <Aquent> "Within 35 days of their appointment, examiners must tell the Court if
[13:13] <Aquent> they have been able to prepare proposals for the rescue plan. If they
[13:13] <Aquent> haven’t been able to do this, the Court may order that the company
[13:13] <Aquent> be wound up or that the examiner be given more time to prepare
[13:13] <Aquent> proposals or seek approval for them."
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[13:13] <Aquent> "In general, examiners have the right to:
[13:13] <Aquent> • access the company’s books and accounts, including those held by
[13:13] <Aquent> its agents (accountants, bankers and so on);
[13:13] <Aquent> • convene and attend any general meetings or directors’ meetings;
[13:13] <Aquent> and
[13:13] <Aquent> • cancel any decisions or contracts that might lose money for the
[13:13] <Aquent> company or any interested party."
[13:13] <Aquent> those are all the powers an examiner has
[13:13] == vocodork [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[13:13] <Aquent> unless:
[13:14] <Aquent> "Examiners can also seek High Court orders to have the directors’
[13:14] <Aquent> powers transferred to them, including the power to sell company
[13:14] <Aquent> assets, to retrieve company property and to make decisions relevant to
[13:14] <Aquent> the examinership."
[13:14] <marcusw> pls2 not spam
[13:14] <Dr-G3> accounts = he could look into the bitcoin accounts
[13:14] <Aquent> its not spam
[13:14] <Dr-G3> but he's clueless about the blockchain
[13:14] <Dr-G3> so
[13:14] <Aquent> so yeah examiner needed more time too
[13:14] <Dr-G3> he's not capable of doing his examining
[13:14] <Aquent> question is why though
[13:15] <Dr-G3> he's not accepting experts
[13:15] <Aquent> obviously because it is not yet established wtf happened
[13:15] <Aquent> why not?
[13:15] <Dr-G3> because he is the famous lawyer kobayashi lol
[13:15] <Aquent> lol
[13:15] <Dr-G3> he can figure stuff out on his own
[13:15] <Dr-G3> ^^
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[13:15] <Aquent> I dont think he feels he knows about this area of law
[13:15] <Aquent> he can't rely on his own knoweldge in court in any event
[13:15] <Dr-G3> nono he's a genius, he just needs more time /s
[13:15] <Aquent> he needs an expert and he knows that
[13:16] <Aquent> but maybe he thinks mk is an expert?
[13:16] <brokenmusic> we need Kevin Spacey now
[13:16] <marcusw> Aquent: if so, everyone is going to have a bad time...
[13:16] <brokenmusic> I'm sure he'd be able to explain
[13:16] <lnovy> no, we need Joe Pesci now :)
[13:17] <Dr-G3> The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world the bitcoins didn't exist.
[13:17] <anarchystar> Aquent: good info
[13:17] <Aquent> anarchystar do you have the email address of this examiner?
[13:17] <yerp> dammit, need more whisky.  japan is great for access to alchohol
[13:17] <yerp> screw canada and their nanny state
[13:17] <Dr-G3> http://www.noandt.com/en/lawyers/nbk.php
[13:17] <Aquent> and the court email or postal address?
[13:18] <anarchystar> Aquent: err i dont know, maybe my law firm does but i dont think we should flood him.. i relay most crucial info i get like that report about transaction mallability from yesterday
[13:19] <Aquent> lol
[13:19] <Aquent> you the gatekeeper now?
[13:19] <Aquent> It's not like I cant find the details
[13:19] <anarchystar> Aquent: no, feel free to do whatever you want
[13:19] <Aquent> I just thought would be easier to ask
[13:19] <yerp> Aquent:  if u can speak japanese go for it
[13:20] <yerp> but u won't get a hold of him, you'll get a gatekeeper
[13:21] <shortusername> same old crap, either work with us or dont bother, we dont need ya
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[13:22] <anarchystar> actually, the more people that go to japan or hire lawyers and communicate so im not the only idiot doing this, the better
[13:22] <anarchystar> i welcome it
[13:22] <anarchystar> so far i still have to see anyone else put some effort in this shit
[13:22] <anarchystar> besides jerking off and sitting on irc complaining all day
[13:22] <anarchystar> :)
[13:23] <Aquent> yeh and finding where the coins are
[13:23] <Aquent> or whats happening to them
[13:23] <Aquent> how come you didnt know the time and place of the hearing today?
[13:23] <anarchystar> how come you didnt hire your own lawyer yet?
[13:23] <Aquent> I dont need a lawyer
[13:23] <shortusername> well we all want the same thing right?  to get coins back?   we offer different things
[13:23] <anarchystar> ok then stop asking about mine
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[13:24] <Aquent> you the one representing everyone lol
[13:24] <anarchystar> im not representing anyone..
[13:24] <anarchystar> i dont know where you get that from
[13:24] <Aquent> what are all those details requested for then?
[13:24] <anarchystar> to help build the case against mark
[13:24] <shortusername> ok great so mtgoxrecovery is not relevant to us
[13:24] <shortusername> bye
[13:25] <anarchystar> im relaying info as i can, and try to get the truth to surface for what that bastard did
[13:25] <anarchystar> i never said im representing the community, and i dont think i should
[13:26] <anarchystar> cause all i get then is grief that im not doing a good job at it
[13:26] <shortusername> you done some good stuff,  people hoping we could join you
[13:26] <shortusername> but need to know law firm etc
[13:26] <Aquent> anarchystar I was under the impression that you were representing everyone
[13:26] <Aquent> your irc chat with mk said so
[13:27] <Aquent> now if you've changed your mind thats different
[13:27] <Aquent> but if you wish to represent everyone then obviously you gone get a little bit of heat
[13:27] <Aquent> personally I am really angry with mk not you that no one knew the time and place of this hearing
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[13:28] <anarchystar> i can make available a group suit, but at this moment i dont see an urgent need yet and it will shave you probably like 20% of the amount you get in the end - you can perfectly submit your own individual claim
[13:28] <anarchystar> the only advantage is that you can make an easier demand 'as a group'
[13:29] <marcusw> anarchystar: you should really try to separate your legal stuff and your business stuff if they're not related...this is rather confusing
[13:29] <shortusername> we might aswell start are own group and save the 20% if we can submit just as easy......  just saying
[13:30] <shortusername> we can just start a group via a massive forum post if we dont need a lawyer to submit
[13:30] <anarchystar> shortusername: i dont know about not needing a lawyer to submit
[13:30] <anarchystar> marcusw: what do you mean?
[13:31] <lnovy> well... the investigator name is publicly known, isn't it?
[13:31] <lnovy> what's the deal?
[13:31] <marcusw> anarchystar: I mean originally, it seemed like projectgox was some kind of group lawsuit thing
[13:31] <lnovy> Gosh, he's only one year older than me!
[13:32] <anarchystar> also for the record i crossed my $40k retainer and i think at least half of that went to having community questions answered like that q&a, and the other half to reporting all the shit that came up to the court.. there is no 'win' in this for me except getting more justice to mark
[13:32] <marcusw> as it turns out, it's just your exchange that you're trying to push
[13:32] <lnovy> ha no :D lol
[13:32] <marcusw> nothing wrong with that, but it seems like it was misrepresented
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[13:32] <lnovy> he was admitted to bar one year before I was born :D
[13:32] <anarchystar> my lawyer predicts the costs will be between 100-400k USD to continue this
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[13:33] <Chillance> for how long?
[13:33] <anarchystar> until its over
[13:33] <lnovy> that's more that you can afford afaik
[13:33] <Chillance> 1 year?
[13:33] <anarchystar> i think were looking at 1.5 - 2 years before there will be a finish (thats when we go into liquidation soon.. if not.. much longer)
[13:34] <anarchystar> its also time that everyone realises they should move on in the meanwhile
[13:34] <Chillance> give them gox money and they will speed it up
[13:34] <anarchystar> dont make this your life cause you will waste it
[13:34] <shortusername> anarchystar:  yesterday you said you feared mark will open gox as CEO
[13:34] <anarchystar> just keep yourself up to date now and then
[13:34] <vocodork_> anarchystar: who says they will proceed to actual bankruptcy?
[13:34] <anarchystar> shortusername: yes, i still do
[13:34] <vocodork_> anarchystar: imho story may not be over
[13:34] <Chillance> yea, that is why I cant wait for multisig.com to open up
[13:35] <anarchystar> marcusw: pushing my exchange.. lol.. im trying to help bitcoin by finally making a proper exchange - if i gain some economic benefit from it, i wont say no.. truth is i have enough money to never have to do shit again.. so i chose to dedicate my life for causes i believe in, like bitcoin
[13:36] <anarchystar> but you dont have to believe me.. i know you dont know me or who i am
[13:36] <meelos> Well I appreciate you anarchystar. And to be perfectly honest I’d rather you focus your efforts and energy into the case rather than feed the trolls on IRC.
[13:36] <anarchystar> and theres many scammers and idiots out there
[13:36] <marcusw> anarchystar: no, I don't give a shit about that, I'm just saying that projectgox was kinda billed as a way for people to get their coins back from gox and that's not really what it is
[13:36] <Chillance> so we all can move on, get some of our money back that way, and then when they played their law game, Mark can give us our money back as he should
[13:37] <Aquent> anarchystar you'd be mad to pay your lawyer that much
[13:37] <Aquent> maybe you in a better position to judge what exactly you'r lawyer has achieved to deserve that much fee, but 100k, fuck that
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[13:38] <shortusername> anarchy: helping people in the ways they want helping >  helping people in the way you think they want helping
[13:38] <yerp> anarchy has provided more info to us, than anyone else has really
[13:38] <anarchystar> marcusw: yes it was, until i found out that it takes 1 year to get a plan approved, so taking over mtgox isnt realistic and i dont want to wait for that moron.. also we can start an exchange ran completely by the community but i have no experience in managing something like that, its over my head.. to have shares issued to everyone and who will boostrap
[13:38] <anarchystar> that.. get investments.. feel free to do it ...  so i decided to just start my own thing and give 10% of gross profit to mtgox holders and thats it .. 10% of gross is a lot
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[13:39] <anarchystar> if you want to take an initiative to start a 100% community exchange and run a company operated by 'the internets' - go ahead
[13:39] <anarchystar> i would love to see this work
[13:39] <yerp> anarchystar:  it wont work
[13:39] <yerp> anarchystar:  people in here can't decide what underwear to wear
[13:39] <anarchystar> meanwhile i suspect that my 10% will have paid you back 10 times over by the time you have it up and running
[13:39] <yerp> anarchystar:  including me
[13:40] <Chillance> Im sure it will make a lot of people happy
[13:40] <Chillance> or, well, happier
[13:40] <Chillance> :)
[13:41] <sobriket> could someone please pastebin the past hour or so?
[13:41] <shortusername> anarchystar:  i have a hard time believing anyone wants to give free hand outs,   what do you get from us to give us 10%?
[13:41] <meelos> Trading fees.
[13:42] <shortusername> meelos:  we dont have to trade there
[13:42] <Chillance> because he knows how it feels?
[13:42] <shortusername> Chillance:  be real
[13:42] <meelos> No you don’t HAVE to, but it’s incentive right?
[13:42] <shortusername> people are starving to death right now, if we all want to help other strangers we wont be sat here
[13:43] <marcusw> it's really simple, this is just a publicity stunt
[13:43] <anarchystar> bill gates runs charities, why cant a bitcoin millionaire do the same? just give back to the community - make bitcoin have a great reputation, everyone wins
[13:43] <meelos> If trading there benefits you more than others as a Gox creditor.
[13:43] <anarchystar> and yes it will give some free advertising.. maybe?
[13:43] <yerp> aquent 100k is on the cheap end.  these firmst dont work for free.  the average partner in the expat firms is around 100,000 yen per hour
[13:43] <marcusw> there's nothing bad about that, but it's a publicity stunt
[13:43] == rav` has changed nick to rav
[13:43] <anarchystar> if its a publicity stunt then thats great cause you get more money back
[13:43] <marcusw> ^
[13:43] <yerp> if you want a goober, maybe 50,000 yen
[13:44] <shortusername> anarchystar:  honestly you would probably do better with an affiliate system open to all.   i will be happy to take the free money though sure
[13:44] <anarchystar> shortusername: we can do an affiliate system on top.. i will still give that 10%
[13:45] <anarchystar> if you dont want it then you give it to someone else :)
[13:45] <meelos> There can be a variety of initiatives that will provide incentives to goxxed bitcoiners.
[13:45] <meelos> What it requires is a central redistribution system.
[13:45] <shortusername> obviously its a no brainer to take free money
[13:45] == chickmi [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[13:45] <shortusername> never really find free money anywhere thats all
[13:46] <marcusw> anarchystar: there have been changes with the gox balance db...will that stay open so everyone can implement these kinds of bonuses?
[13:47] <anarchystar> marcusw: what do you mean exactly with stay open? we will provide an api for sure.. so far only manual lookups
[13:47] <meelos> Are loyaly points free money?
[13:47] <meelos> Or do you earn them?
[13:48] <marcusw> anarchystar: I just want to make sure you commit to making it easy for people do to lookups
[13:49] <marcusw> so that everyone can repeat what you're doing with the 10%
[13:49] <meelos> Marcus, what’s a lookup?
[13:49] <marcusw> because I think that's a REALLY good way for gox people to get repaid
[13:49] <anarchystar> marcusw: yes for sure, api will be given 100%
[13:49] <marcusw> but a little bit worried that you'll cut off access to the db so that nobody can compete with your exchange
[13:49] <marcusw> cool, thanks
[13:49] <marcusw> meelos: balance check
[13:49] <anarchystar> nono, thats why i kept this a seperate site
[13:49] <sobriket> could someone please do a pastebin of the past hour or so so I can understand what 10% we're talking about here? Thanks.
[13:50] <meelos> Right but the balance check needs to be corrected with each donation right?