<SerCorbieGeisha> Oh cool
<SerCorbieGeisha> I can't get you anything on Steam though
<SerCorbieGeisha> I'm low on money this month
<SerCorbieGeisha> I got a lot of gifts but can't give anything
<Boilerplate> Yep it's the Dec 28
<Boilerplate> Well that's okay, you can only do what's possible though
<SerCorbieGeisha> It's 29 for me
<SerCorbieGeisha> But then again
<SerCorbieGeisha> I'm from the future
<Boilerplate> Wait...your born in the same month?
<Boilerplate> And also the same year? 1987?
<SerCorbieGeisha> No
<SerCorbieGeisha> I mean that
<SerCorbieGeisha> It's the 29th for me today
<Boilerplate> ah
<Boilerplate> so what year you were born in then?
<Boilerplate> I'll take a guess, 1986?
<SerCorbieGeisha> I'm younger than you
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<Boilerplate> Then how old are you then?
<Boilerplate> I guess you mean Dec 29th not your actual age?
<SerCorbieGeisha> Yes
<SerCorbieGeisha> It's the 29th of December where I am
<SerCorbieGeisha> Because I'm from the future
<SerCorbieGeisha> Hi Lindy
<Boilerplate> It's still the 28 here
<Boilerplate> A LividLindy appears
<SerCorbieGeisha> Lindy, i just realised I don't have you on Steam
<LividLindy> hi
<SerCorbieGeisha> What's your name on Steam?
<LividLindy> http://steamcommunity.com/id/lindy
<SerCorbieGeisha> THat's...
<SerCorbieGeisha> A very simple name
<SerCorbieGeisha> Oooohhh, you got Harley and Ivy
<SerCorbieGeisha> Your name's on the top of the search
<LividLindy> yea I imagine I had it first which is why I can use /id/lindy instead of some big string of numbers
<SerCorbieGeisha> Cool
<SerCorbieGeisha> Like
<SerCorbieGeisha> Of all the Lindys int he world
<SerCorbieGeisha> You were hte first one
<SerCorbieGeisha> And your name isn't even Lindy
<SerCorbieGeisha> Check and mate
<Boilerplate> why not play chess then?
<SerCorbieGeisha> I don't know how to
<Boilerplate> Me neither anyways
<LividLindy> I used to play with my friend in art class instead of doing art lol
<LividLindy> she had been playing since she was little and beat me every time
<LividLindy> but it was still fun
<Boilerplate> Well played it one time but shelved it away and forgotten about it since it was 'meh'
<SerCorbieGeisha> Now we got rts for that!
<Boilerplate> basically rts games are digitzed chess or basically a meme dirived from chess perhaps?
<SerCorbieGeisha> Well, chess is basically about a game where you have a kingdom and you're trying to beat the other kingdom
<SerCorbieGeisha> So...
<SerCorbieGeisha> Yeah
<Boilerplate> It's a war game basically
<LividLindy> I wanna see Frozen again
<SerCorbieGeisha> I've never seen Frozen
<SerCorbieGeisha> I haven't been out lately
<LividLindy> I saw it with my sister which was serendipitous because it turned out to be about sisters
<LividLindy> I hadn't really looked at anything about it before going
<SerCorbieGeisha> Apparently the trailers advertised it as some goofy romp
<SerCorbieGeisha> But I didn't see it
<Boilerplate> Question is, why couldn't they call the film by it's original name "The Snow Queen"? Oh that's right...
<LividLindy> yea the names Frozen and Tangled do bug me
<LividLindy> should be The Snow Queen and Rapunzel
<LividLindy> but I did like them both a lot
<LividLindy> Tangled is probably better but I liked Frozen too
<Boilerplate> I noticed that Disney tried to negate titles that have anything to do with women.
<Boilerplate> *tries
<Boilerplate> While White Male driven stories are called by their original names..anyone ever notice that?
<LividLindy> maybe they should've left it A Princess of Mars instead of John Carter
<Boilerplate> Never heard of that before
<LividLindy> pretty sure John Carter is one of Disney's biggest flops ever
<LividLindy> based on a novel called A Princess of Mars
<Boilerplate> ah
<Boilerplate> I guess it's very apparent that Disney tries to erase anything to do with women in the titles and the "John Carter" just blately shows they prefer white males I guess.
<LividLindy> I read something that it if they did the same for The Little Mermaid then it would be called Beached
<LividLindy> lol
<LividLindy> I guess Snow White would be Poisoned
<Boilerplate> Or "Snow White" would be called "Dwarves"
<QueenOf> what happened to 2D animation
<SerCorbieGeisha> GONE
<QueenOf> i've been meaning to watch uh
<SerCorbieGeisha> And it's NEVER COMING BACK
<QueenOf> princess and the frog
<SerCorbieGeisha> Also, I need to buy rice
<QueenOf> and tangled was fine and everything but
<QueenOf> they should still make both!
<Boilerplate> 2D animnation went of the way of stop motion animation
<Boilerplate> Simply because CGI/computers are more easier tools to work with
<Boilerplate> from a animators perspective anyways
<Boilerplate> because 2D and stop motion animation were time consuming work which is why they went with computers.
<Boilerplate> Everything else about 2D and Stop Motion animations are nosolgitic
<QueenOf> well uh
<QueenOf> that's only really true for disney and american movies in general
<QueenOf> 2D animation for american cartoons is still pretty normal
<Boilerplate> Well I think it's because 2D animation has lost it's offical title which is why it has 'demoted' itself to only TV shows while CGI takes the center stage..
<QueenOf> i wouldn't really say it demoted itself
<QueenOf> TV is kind of the new place for things that are actually worthwhile
<QueenOf> but that's coming from someone who doesn't watch many movies
<Boilerplate> well maybe 'demoted' is the wrong word to describe it but rather it takes the backstage and fades into irrelevance/obsucirty overtime
<QueenOf> and uh traditional animation is still really popular in other countries i was just being bummed out about disney
<Boilerplate> Hmmm...I think it's maybe because either that other countries don't have the same budget as US movie industry does (I could be wrong) or maybe US animators got lazy and lost their skill they say or maybe rather CG movies are maybe quicker to make to meet deadlines compared to how it is in other countries.
<Boilerplate> Since from my first argument I think we've all seen how India does with their special effects with Hindu Mythology films...
<Boilerplate> well rather their TV shows that is
<Boilerplate> Even though improved over the years but it is still low budget compared to US films (Well I wsh if there was Hindu Mythology film made with the same CG technology the US/West has...but becareful what you wish for I guess knowing how the west treats it)
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<Boilerplate> SerCorbieGeisha...have you read the pastebins I've posted a day ago?
<SerCorbieGeisha> Yes
<Boilerplate> And of course what's your thoughts/input on them?
<SerCorbieGeisha> I couldn't keep my attention long enough
<Boilerplate> Hmmm...well assuming if you read a good part of it, I wonder if you liked what agnosticnixie proposed as a 'alternative' for the WoD?
<SerCorbieGeisha> Well, I personally wouldn't make Chinese cults based on monsters
<SerCorbieGeisha> We have plenty of history to base clans around
<Boilerplate> Hmmm...although the biggest problem with VTM is it's Christian basis origin story though
<SerCorbieGeisha> You could do like VtR and not have a metaplot
<Boilerplate> Well I originally thought of simply brining the Dark Ages structure to the modern ages to go from there
<Boilerplate> if we wanted to get rid of the metaplot
<Boilerplate> Since the very existence of the Camarilla and Sabbat are a part of it
<SerCorbieGeisha> Then again, my favourite trope is "Nobody knows what the fuck is really going on"
<Boilerplate> due to the whole "Final Nights" fiasco that would inveitably lead up to Gehenna which then harks back to it's Christian overtones with the Apocalypicism going on.
<Boilerplate> Of course though, I was also thinking that the Western Supernaturals can mirror Western Imperialism which wherever Western Imperialism goes, Western Supernaturals follow sort of.
<SerCorbieGeisha> Of course
<SerCorbieGeisha> One of the things I hate about WoD
<SerCorbieGeisha> Is that
<SerCorbieGeisha> They attribute WWII to supernaturals
<SerCorbieGeisha> And a lot of historical things
<Boilerplate> attribute what do you mean by that within context?
<Boilerplate> Well if you mean by supernaturals are behind WWII instead of Hitler somehow
<SerCorbieGeisha> Yeah
<SerCorbieGeisha> It's the whole trope of the Nazi Party were so evil because EVIL FORCES WERE RESPONSIBLE
<Boilerplate> But when it came to Hitler or the Holocaust they said "Humans were responsible for that"...well I actually remember that White Wolf did a Wraith suppliment book on the Holocaust called "Charnel Houses of Europe: The Shoah"
<Boilerplate> Which I remember from the forum members from my days at the WW community said it was one of the most disturbing books WW written
<SerCorbieGeisha> I remember something about how vampries are responsible for most human conflicts
<Boilerplate> As if humans never did anything by themselves and there is this constant theme of "Supernaturals did Everything"...
<Boilerplate> Hmmm...perhaps this harkens back to the medival idea that "Humans are just helpless cogs"...hmmm it also sounds identicle to the Ancient Astronaut theory as well since it did originate from Theosphy after all.
<Boilerplate> Of course if you propose that if Supernaturals did everything but yet they leave out events like the Holocaust and 9/11 it leaves some gapping holes within that narriative though where you could might as well do the opposite where it's humans that drive everything while supernaturals just follows what they do.
<SerCorbieGeisha> Well, in the case of vampires
<SerCorbieGeisha> It's more offending in that
<SerCorbieGeisha> Vampires are supposed to be human sort-of
<SerCorbieGeisha> But by saying vampires did it
<SerCorbieGeisha> It's like saying "We're not really responsible."
<SerCorbieGeisha> And they're doing it for their vampire purposes
<SerCorbieGeisha> Not because they're furthering a cause they served in life
<SerCorbieGeisha> It would be more interesting rather than, for example, colonialism happening because Kindred want more food or something
<SerCorbieGeisha> But if they were colonists themselves
<SerCorbieGeisha> And they're basically doing what they did in life
<SerCorbieGeisha> And say
<SerCorbieGeisha> Perhaps you had some radicals who protested slavery
<SerCorbieGeisha> And there were
<SerCorbieGeisha> There have always been people who protested against oppressive institutions, we're jsut not taught about them
<SerCorbieGeisha> But yeah
<Boilerplate> <SerCorbieGeisha> It's like saying "We're not really responsible." I guess all it does it creates a strawman first of all which is the basis of conspiracy theories which is what the OWoD is mostly based on
<SerCorbieGeisha> Let's say those movements failed before because the vampries suppressed them, because they're often from the beneficiary groups
<SerCorbieGeisha> And yes, I say often
<SerCorbieGeisha> Because it is also possible for people of oppressed groups to succeed within the structure
<SerCorbieGeisha> But their success doesn't change anything
<SerCorbieGeisha> Because, well, it's within ther structure
<SerCorbieGeisha> The differnece between this and that is
<SerCorbieGeisha> While it's still vampires doing the work
<SerCorbieGeisha> They are not doing it for vampire purposes
<SerCorbieGeisha> They're doing it because of who they were in life
<SerCorbieGeisha> They're simply the same as human oppressors
<SerCorbieGeisha> Only with immortality
<SerCorbieGeisha> And more cunning
<Boilerplate> You know I was wondering how the Native Supernaturals from their own cultural contexts (for example Asura, Djinn, African Supernaturals, etc) were oppressed by colonalism by Western Supernaturals...hmm I guess that would be a interesting concept to explore
<Boilerplate> Also what about "Vampire Privledge" and such?
<SerCorbieGeisha> Maybe I'm being a contrarian
<SerCorbieGeisha> But I prefer to see vampires less of having privilege over non-vampires
<SerCorbieGeisha> And more of being leeches upon humanity
<SerCorbieGeisha> After all
<SerCorbieGeisha> They need to hurt humans to survive
<SerCorbieGeisha> Humans don't NEED to hurt each other to survive
<SerCorbieGeisha> We're just too fucked arsed to restructure the world as such
<Boilerplate> Of course I also heard that supernaturals need humans to surivie as well (Changelings/Mages need human belief, Demons need Faith, etc)
<SerCorbieGeisha> Mages I woudl call privileged though
<SerCorbieGeisha> Since they are humans
<SerCorbieGeisha> And they don't need to hurt humans to survive
<SerCorbieGeisha> But
<SerCorbieGeisha> They have powers over humans
<SerCorbieGeisha> Secret powers, but nevertheless
<SerCorbieGeisha> Or that depends on their school or whatever
<Boilerplate> You know speaking of Mage I think you heard that all human beliefs are made by them including Science with the Technocracy although I heard that the Technocracy originated from the "Order of Reason" which had Christian 'conventions' but I think it could also argue that the Technocracy could represent the secularized christian hegomany of our society since their major goals are millianism/prog
<Boilerplate> ressivnism which plays along the lines of the christian concept of "salvation"
<Boilerplate> Just a referance to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Mythology#Legacy
<Boilerplate> Of course I think a better option would be that humans created the beliefs and Mages only picked them up and made them 'real'
<Boilerplate> with their paradigms
<Boilerplate> Of course though I also notice that Mage culturally approtate the word "Avatar" though
<Boilerplate> Although maybe the Technocracy's paradigm is somewhat closer to the original default paradigm that preceeded humans (the prehistoric times with Dinosaurs) but they only beefed it up and added their own philosphy to it.
<SerCorbieGeisha> DINOSAUR + HUMANS
<Boilerplate> "creative design" since I notice that modern day Christian fundmentalists try to lump Dinosaurs and Humans together if that's what you mean.
<SerCorbieGeisha> No
<Boilerplate> what do you mean then?
<SerCorbieGeisha> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACksiEKWyt4
<Boilerplate> So that's where the origins of Power Rangers caem from?
<SerCorbieGeisha> Super Sentai?
<SerCorbieGeisha> Well, this is the current season
<Boilerplate> Strange that the US Power Rangers is desfunct while Japans is still going
<SerCorbieGeisha> No, Saban bought the rights back from Disney and is still producing
<Boilerplate> ah
<Boilerplate> Anyway I wonder if you liked what I proposed for Mage especially regarding the Technocracy?
<SerCorbieGeisha> It can work
<Boilerplate> I guess I got the Technocracy pretty accurately I guess?
<Boilerplate> well since you have the books with you...
<Boilerplate> Then again...I wonder if there's any problematic material in all of the books including the Technocracy...well I heard that WW recently released the source books for rest of the conventions: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/120616/Convention-Book-Void-Engineers?src=s_pi  http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/117395/Convention-Book-Syndicate?src=s_pi  http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product
<Boilerplate> /113471/Convention-Book-Progenitors?src=s_pi  http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/107693/Convention-Book-NWO?src=s_pi
<Boilerplate> http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/113471/Convention-Book-Progenitors?src=s_pi
<SerCorbieGeisha> Too many!
<Boilerplate> As in Too Many links, books, or problematic refertances?
<SerCorbieGeisha> BOOKS
<Boilerplate> I guess you own too many books to go through? If so I guess you can simply take your time...well I don't think there is too many articles out there that points out the problematic stuff in the WoD.
<Boilerplate> especially any Tumblr posts that is
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<Boilerplate> A Ozaline appears
<Ozaline> That I do
<Boilerplate> So how is Oz these days?
<Boilerplate> SerCorbieGeisha...maybe you could start with the books dealing with Asia like for example perhaps all the other source books for KotE and also the Akastic Brotherhood tradition book and maybe the Euthanotos too. Of course maybe you'll have a field day with WoD Gypies though.
<Boilerplate> SerCorbieGeisha if your still here if you read the second pastebin I've posted where I was arguing with "Evil Venture" I wonder how you would have responded to him or do you 'debunk' or counter his arguments he's making?
<Boilerplate> *Evil Ventrue
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<Boilerplate> SerCorbieGeisha: I just learned something 'new' about the word "Urban" today: http://racebending.tumblr.com/tagged/urban-fantasy
<SerCorbieGeisha> Ah, I saw that before
<SerCorbieGeisha> It's true
<Boilerplate> I guess the word "Urban" is out of the question then eh?
<SerCorbieGeisha> No
<SerCorbieGeisha> The point of that isn't to say that you shouldn't use the word
<SerCorbieGeisha> It's basically asking for more black representation
<SerCorbieGeisha> Well,I suppose it's also asking for the genre to be less white
<SerCorbieGeisha> Everything to be less white, basically
<Boilerplate> Ah...I originally thought the word had racist connotations I guess I was wrong then I guess.
<SerCorbieGeisha> Urban just means city
<SerCorbieGeisha> And how it connotates blackness is that
<Boilerplate> ah
<SerCorbieGeisha> In the 30s
<SerCorbieGeisha> A lot of black people were moving into cities
<SerCorbieGeisha> So white people began moving out
<SerCorbieGeisha> The term "inner city" refers to the fact that white residences tend to be on the outskirts of a city
<SerCorbieGeisha> INstead of being further in, where a lot of poor people lived
<SerCorbieGeisha> And a lot of poor people are black so