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Aug 3rd, 2014
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  1. [8/3/14, 2:55:28 PM] John: it was your fault you do realize that
  2. [8/3/14, 2:55:42 PM] Tyler: not really
  3. [8/3/14, 2:55:50 PM] John: that's why hammer tunneled will
  4. [8/3/14, 2:56:00 PM] Tyler: that's hammer's fault that she can't get over the fact that me/will nl'd
  5. [8/3/14, 2:56:08 PM] John: except that crippled town
  6. [8/3/14, 2:56:09 PM] John: entirely
  7. [8/3/14, 2:56:15 PM] Tyler: especially when there is a claimed mafia day 1
  8. [8/3/14, 2:56:22 PM] Tyler: hint: soda wouldn't have hammered NL as town
  9. [8/3/14, 2:56:28 PM] Tyler: especially not silently
  10. [8/3/14, 2:56:29 PM] John: no he wouldn't have
  11. [8/3/14, 2:56:36 PM] John: that's one of many reasons he got pushed on
  12. [8/3/14, 2:56:48 PM] John: by me alone
  13. [8/3/14, 2:56:51 PM] John: and his partner
  14. [8/3/14, 2:57:01 PM] Tyler: yet hammer voted town anyway
  15. [8/3/14, 2:57:03 PM] Tyler: not my fault
  16. [8/3/14, 2:57:42 PM] Tyler: think of the NL whatever you want but i am not the one that voted town in 5 way
  17. [8/3/14, 2:57:50 PM] John: well now i'm in a predicament of whether i should report you
  18. [8/3/14, 2:57:54 PM] John: so you'll stop nling
  19. [8/3/14, 2:58:00 PM] John: in every game
  20. [8/3/14, 2:58:10 PM] Tyler: it's pretty blatantly obvious at this point i'm not throwing, but if you really want to, go ahead
  21. [8/3/14, 2:58:19 PM] Tyler: i'm not angry lol
  22. [8/3/14, 2:58:19 PM] John: how is it not tyler
  23. [8/3/14, 2:58:27 PM] John: you know its wrong
  24. [8/3/14, 2:58:30 PM] John: your winrate is crippled
  25. [8/3/14, 2:58:34 PM] Tyler: zzzz it's really not
  26. [8/3/14, 2:58:35 PM] John: like why are you lying to me
  27. [8/3/14, 2:58:37 PM] John: right now
  28. [8/3/14, 2:58:40 PM] Tyler: and the w/r is crippled from the fact i went 1-11
  29. [8/3/14, 2:58:43 PM] John: you know its never done you any good
  30. [8/3/14, 2:58:44 PM] Tyler: my first 12 games
  31. [8/3/14, 2:58:47 PM] John: because you've been nling
  32. [8/3/14, 2:58:47 PM] Tyler: before the NL ever happened
  33. [8/3/14, 2:58:56 PM] John: well its continuing clearly
  34. [8/3/14, 2:59:07 PM] Tyler: actually, it's been a solid 50/50 with that in mind
  35. [8/3/14, 2:59:12 PM] John: you're like hardcore trolling and you don't want to give up the facade for some reason
  36. [8/3/14, 2:59:21 PM] John: which is baffling
  37. [8/3/14, 2:59:32 PM] Tyler: there was a reason i asked you multiple times
  38. [8/3/14, 2:59:42 PM] Tyler: if you were going to get mad if I did it keeping in mind I was playing seriously
  39. [8/3/14, 2:59:49 PM] Tyler: apparently the answer is "Yes" and you should have just said that
  40. [8/3/14, 2:59:55 PM] Tyler: and i wouldn't have played with you
  41. [8/3/14, 3:00:04 PM] John: you're playing seriously but still intending to do so in a way that is obviously inferior given you're town
  42. [8/3/14, 3:00:23 PM] John: i just don't get why you're lying to me
  43. [8/3/14, 3:00:24 PM] John: right now
  44. [8/3/14, 3:00:25 PM] Tyler: not really
  45. [8/3/14, 3:00:28 PM] John: and still playing pretend
  46. [8/3/14, 3:00:28 PM] Tyler: I'm actually not.
  47. [8/3/14, 3:00:30 PM] John: that's disturbing
  48. [8/3/14, 3:00:53 PM] John: but you are
  49. [8/3/14, 3:00:54 PM] Tyler: I am legitimately not lying to you. I think NLing is a legitimate way to play.
  50. [8/3/14, 3:01:00 PM] John: legitimate in what way?
  51. [8/3/14, 3:01:23 PM] John: if its inferior town strategy then how do you justify nling as town
  52. [8/3/14, 3:01:28 PM] Tyler: In C-14/BV it trades the ML for more reports and avoiding PR deaths by mafia fishing
  53. [8/3/14, 3:01:36 PM] Tyler: (Which will 100% happen assuming scum is competent)
  54. [8/3/14, 3:01:40 PM] John: ok and in bv it does what
  55. [8/3/14, 3:01:48 PM] Tyler: The latter
  56. [8/3/14, 3:01:53 PM] John: one pr
  57. [8/3/14, 3:02:05 PM] John: and reports that are far less useful
  58. [8/3/14, 3:02:09 PM] John: there's no strategy to it
  59. [8/3/14, 3:02:12 PM] Tyler: In addition I am confident enough in my townplay that I believe I should win regardless of the ML in 5 way LyLo
  60. [8/3/14, 3:02:24 PM] Tyler: On the flip side, as mafia it wastes an ML for free.
  61. [8/3/14, 3:02:33 PM] John: and you're confident of everyone elses townplay?
  62. [8/3/14, 3:02:38 PM] John: to be able to overcome the hump?
  63. [8/3/14, 3:02:44 PM] John: the hump which you're admitting to right now
  64. [8/3/14, 3:02:53 PM] Tyler: Optimally I should be able to convince them to follow me, if I'm not able to I do not deserve the win.
  65. [8/3/14, 3:03:15 PM] John: it's weird talking to you like this
  66. [8/3/14, 3:03:26 PM] Tyler: If you want to take it outside the group chat feel free
  67. [8/3/14, 3:03:30 PM] John: it's like a little pretend fantasy
  68. [8/3/14, 3:03:44 PM] Tyler: I have 0 reason to lie.
  69. [8/3/14, 3:03:58 PM] John: only true thing you've said
  70. [8/3/14, 3:04:07 PM] John: ironically
  71. [8/3/14, 3:04:15 PM] Tyler: Well I'm sorry you feel that way, feel free to dodge me on Stab.
  72. [8/3/14, 3:04:46 PM] John: you play like that only on one account and you're attesting that you are in fact playing to your win condition by nling
  73. [8/3/14, 3:04:52 PM] Tyler: Regardless of what you think of the NL, I honestly believe it is a legitimate way to play, and if you think I'm lying about that you're deluding yourself.
  74. [8/3/14, 3:04:55 PM] John: even though you admit that its not
  75. [8/3/14, 3:04:59 PM] John: which is one big paradox
  76. [8/3/14, 3:05:12 PM] John: you keep saying "legitimate way to play"
  77. [8/3/14, 3:05:23 PM] John: you won't say playing to your win condition
  78. [8/3/14, 3:05:27 PM] Tyler: Statistically optimal does not always mean in fact optimal.
  79. [8/3/14, 3:05:35 PM] Tyler: In this case I'm saying it has the potential to be.
  80. [8/3/14, 3:05:49 PM] John: instead of always
  81. [8/3/14, 3:06:09 PM] John: so part or most of the time you're not
  82. [8/3/14, 3:06:11 PM] Tyler: Correct, there are a lot of things that are not always optimal.
  83. [8/3/14, 3:06:22 PM] Tyler: Mislynching is not always optimal either.
  84. [8/3/14, 3:06:28 PM] Tyler: Does that make it an incorrect way to play?
  85. [8/3/14, 3:06:30 PM] Tyler: It does not.
  86. [8/3/14, 3:06:34 PM] John: it is always optimal
  87. [8/3/14, 3:06:50 PM] Tyler: Private chat is a good place for this John
  88. [8/3/14, 3:06:50 PM] Tyler: js
  89. [8/3/14, 3:06:59 PM] Tyler: So you don't have to bug people with our personal argument
  90. [8/3/14, 3:07:08 PM] John: i don't really want to chat about it you're just playing experimentally for your own amusement
  91. [8/3/14, 3:08:00 PM] Tyler: Then I don't really get the point of this John since it's very apparent that regardless of what you think on the strategy, my opinion of it is very clear
  92. [8/3/14, 3:08:37 PM] John: its clear and yet it has no justification
  93. [8/3/14, 3:08:41 PM] John: which is baffling
  94. [8/3/14, 3:08:48 PM] Tyler: I have already given it.
  95. [8/3/14, 3:09:01 PM] John: it holds no water and you seem to realize it
  96. [8/3/14, 3:09:28 PM] Tyler: I realize that on paper, statistically, it is not optimal.
  97. [8/3/14, 3:10:12 PM] Tyler: I disagree in that I think I can still win with it on a consistent basis given the proper setting (Read: People not afk voting for it like hammerjaws)
  98. [8/3/14, 3:10:13 PM] John: and in practice, it is, not optimal
  99. [8/3/14, 3:10:23 PM] John: you can "still" win you are less likely to win
  100. [8/3/14, 3:10:32 PM] John: i can still win if i voted you out d1
  101. [8/3/14, 3:10:36 PM] Tyler: I do not think losing the ML will affect my w/r at all as town, actually.
  102. [8/3/14, 3:10:37 PM] John: as cop
  103. [8/3/14, 3:10:58 PM] John: well i guess you're not good with making inferences then
  104. [8/3/14, 3:11:06 PM] Tyler: Maybe not.
  105. [8/3/14, 3:11:29 PM] Tyler: Which is why I've said regardless of your opinion of it, mine is pretty blatantly obvious, and I have 0 reason to lie about it, so what is even your point here?
  106. [8/3/14, 3:11:48 PM] Tyler: If it is THAT maddening to play with, don't play with me.
  107. [8/3/14, 3:11:57 PM] John: that you're gamethrowing with intent
  108. [8/3/14, 3:12:02 PM] John: lol
  109. [8/3/14, 3:12:02 PM] Tyler: I even took the first step and asked if it was OK to play with you because of that
  110. [8/3/14, 3:12:07 PM] Tyler: I am doing neither.
  111. [8/3/14, 3:12:13 PM] Tyler: I'm finished, this is pointless.
  112. [8/3/14, 3:12:31 PM] John: ok then
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