<Midboss> i just wanted to here all about the old school days of 2010-2011 super metroid from you sometime
<garrison> haha I know most of it
<Midboss> yeah i figured you were the person to ask
<garrison> I actually did a lot of research on it too when tssb started
<Midboss> oh really? thats cool
<Midboss> i was really curious when who starting playing and what kinda times people had back then
<Midboss> and what kinda strats were getting found when
<garrison> yeah its neat stuff, there's 100% runs from all the way back in 1995
<garrison> on vhs and shit
<Midboss> woah, just random dudes?
<garrison> one of the first speedgames along with doom
<Midboss> or anyone still around
<garrison> yeah there were tapes being sent to magazines
<Midboss> awesome
<Midboss> any idea what kind of times they were?
<garrison> I'd imagine around 1:30 gametime
<garrison> real slow stuff
<garrison> but they were going for speed completions which was a first
<garrison> wrs for any% like 12 years ago were like :43 ingame
<Midboss> who is that by?
<garrison> that's the furthest back one I know, it was a tie between smokey, vopeju, and some other guy
<garrison> then smokey pretty much dominated the game and got :42, :38, and then a legendary :36
<garrison> that one stood for a while
<Midboss> are there videos of any of these runs?
<Midboss> or how did they communicate
<garrison> I think the :36 is on youtube
<garrison> I'll see if I can find it
<Midboss> that would be really great
<garrison> here's the :38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVA_RDzxss
<Midboss> oh wow zebbite skip was known back then?
<garrison> yeah I forget when that became a thing
<Midboss> and how long has mockballing been around?
<garrison> for a long time, I think all the way back to like 2004
<garrison> the appearance of hotarubi was actually pretty funny
<garrison> there were a couple dudes, one of which was groobo who did diablo 2 runs and some other games like halflife I think
<garrison> were trying to beat the :36 for a long time
<garrison> and there were claims of a :35 existing from a few people
<garrison> but groobo had this :34 run that he was sitting on and trying to submit to sda in secret to shock the community
<garrison> only to find out a japanese player submitted a :32 a month before by chance lol
<garrison> no one believed it at the time
<garrison> they used stuff like arm pumping in the room before speedbooster to try and discredit the run
<garrison> hotarubi and a japanese TASer named catnap were way ahead of the game as far as applying knowledge to the game
* DrDoobie has quit (Connection reset by peer)
<Midboss> oh wow
<Midboss> what do you mean by arm pumping to discredit the run?
<garrison> so arm pumping down slopes is a thing that you shouldn't do on downward slopes
<garrison> but there are some that are 100% safe
<Midboss> so they thought he was cheating to do it on those slopes?
<Midboss> or something
<garrison> so they had notions that he was somehow cheating because armpumping down that slope should have interupted his running
<Midboss> no one tested it lol.....
<garrison> nope lol
<garrison> different times
<Midboss> thats pretty great
<countdown42> lol
<Midboss> so what year was this about?
<garrison> that was 2006
<garrison> he actually had a different route that run too on the way to tourian
<countdown42> when did you start gari?
<countdown42> i remember hearing about mockballs from m2k2 way back
<countdown42> definitely before 2007
<garrison> he would climb red shaft and go back into green brinstar and go up by early supers
<garrison> I started in 2009
<Midboss> woah
<Midboss> how much slower is that than the current old route up?
<garrison> I think it ended up being six seconds slower iirc
<garrison> they used to go up through red tower by powerbombs too
<garrison> there was a big debate on which way was faster
<Midboss> so who was still playing and trying to beat hotarubi post that run?
<garrison> so there were two guys who were trying to beat hotarubi with a segmented run
<garrison> azor and 072
<garrison> they were gunning for :31 igt
<garrison> but then hotarubi beat them to it single segment
<garrison> without murder beam
<Midboss> all these routes were to optimize igt not real time right?
<Midboss> haha wow
<garrison> yeah hotarubi's :31 was the first run that sacrificed gametime for realtime
<Midboss> also murder beam?
<garrison> basically he just skipped murderbeam because he didn't like it or something lol
<Midboss> what is that?
<garrison> murderbeam is a glitchbeam similar to spacetime beam
<Midboss> is this GT stuff?
<garrison> basically what it does is create a verticle line wherever you shoot it that does continuous powerbomb damage
<garrison> it severely lags the game
<garrison> but you basically skip motherbrain's 3rd phase with it
<garrison> she starts out dead
<Midboss> interesting
<Midboss> can you link a run that has it in it?
<garrison> https://youtu.be/zbuxE7GXRXA?t=46m35s
<countdown42> lmao that desc
<countdown42> i love that log
<garrison> but yeah this strat loses like a minute of realtime
<garrison> its great
<Midboss> oh haha, i was wondering why it wasnt used anymore
<garrison> saved 8-15 seconds of gametime
<Midboss> so did people stop using it after hotarubis run kinda?
<Midboss> or were they still trying to beat his igt
<garrison> nah it was the standard for the game still
<garrison> everyone cared about gametime
<garrison> the switch to realtime was basically a natural part of racing
<Midboss> that makes sense
<Midboss> so who started racing this game?
<Midboss> like you are kassiuz?
<Midboss> in 2010 maybe
<garrison> like one player would try to catch up by not turning ice beam off and using missiles to kill enemies instead
<garrison> the first sm race was vopeju and elminster
<garrison> they raced to get 30% lol
<Midboss> haha nice
<garrison> any% races started with me, msds3170, and kassiuz
<Midboss> so you ran the game back then but didnt race?
<Midboss> ah
<garrison> a couple other people as well like dessyreqt and viett
<garrison> then dbx and frozencup came along
<garrison> I was running the game for two years casually before I found out about streaming or sda lol
<garrison> I started with srl in 2011
<Midboss> when you started out did you have a route that looked like hotarubis?
<Midboss> or had the game evolved by then
<garrison> basically everyone just copied hotarubi's route from his :31
<garrison> the big changes to bring realtime into becoming more optimized came from the japanese players
<Midboss> oh there were more japanese players?
<garrison> I found the nico rta wiki had a bunch of super metroid players all around the same skill level as the US crew
<garrison> these japanese players were like a 2nd generation
<Midboss> i had no idea at all
<Midboss> did they kinda die off, or do we just not know about them now?
<garrison> I had sluip get in contact with them because I thought it would be really cool to have a big international race
<garrison> and they all somehow liked the idea
<garrison> fusiana, emodoran, hypo, hakuten
<garrison> then a guy named toraiichi came and went and then danetch came around
<Midboss> oh i had no idea danetch was japanese
<garrison> the interesting thing about them coming around was emodoran was the first to skip spazer because he was good, but not as good as fusiana
<garrison> so he would use that to get what we thought was a temporary lead
<garrison> like everyone was convinced that skipping spazer was going to be slower
<garrison> and it was written off since emodoran was the only one doing it and the better player was getting spazer still
<garrison> basically at this point it was a race to get sub50
<garrison> between about 7 players (me, msds, kassiuz, dbx, fusiana, emodoran, hypo)
<garrison> hotarubi was the only one with a 49
<Midboss> wait is the run you were talking about earlier of hotarubis not his 49:15?
<Midboss> oh ok
<garrison> his :31 was 49:25
<Midboss> oh yeah 25
<garrison> both emodoran and fusiana got 49 before any of us
<garrison> and then they started disappearing
<garrison> so I decided to rta for sub50 and got it pretty easily
<garrison> and then I decided that I was so close to hotarubi's time that I would try to beat it
<garrison> started out skipping spazer in bad starts to try and save time before ultimately deciding that it was just plain faster
<garrison> once we had strats in norfair figured out
<Midboss> what kinda norfair strats do you mean
<garrison> I also skipped ridley's tank in my 49:25 because I knew I was close but not going to do it with that run
<garrison> basically just visuals for the more precise shots
<garrison> like the gate before wave beam
<garrison> or killing things with missiles and psuedo screw attacks
<Midboss> ah
<Midboss> so you still got kraids etank?
<Midboss> and maybe 20 15?
<garrison> yeah kraid's tank was a thing for quite a while
<garrison> we were still doing 25/10 at the point
<Midboss> ah
<Midboss> didnt hotarubi get crab supers though?
<Midboss> when did those get cut
<garrison> yeah he got crab supers
<garrison> I think kassiuz was the one in our crew who decided to just skip them
<garrison> hotarubi and the rest of the japanese players killed draygon with supers
<garrison> but we just learned the shinespark strats
<Midboss> oh, did you guys just discover tapping?
<Midboss> or what it known and noone had tried it in runs
<garrison> people did taps here and there but it really wasn't necessary for anything quite then
<Midboss> not even for like pillars?
<garrison> hotarubi's :31 had like a hybrid strat where he started with a shinespark and then killed with missiles
<garrison> nah pillars everyone used to just go into the room before and do a normal 2tap
<garrison> at that point nothing in the game required more than a 2tap
<garrison> I think dbx was the one who tried to figure out fast pillars like you see it now
<garrison> he was the one who had a more vested interest in 100% where there were a couple of bigger super short charges
<Midboss> oh that makes sense
<Midboss> i didnt really know he did that category
<garrison> super short charges were basically done by the m2k2 people but they never finished runs on ntsc
<garrison> just big talk
<garrison> so since we didn't think it was required we didn't bother with it
<garrison> fast pillars though was really the first instance in any% where a super short was necessary
<Midboss> so which people exactly are m2k2
<garrison> it saved too much time not to do
<Midboss> like smokey and the guys way back then?
<garrison> m2k2 at that point was 4n6, snuffit, reeve, and behemoth
<Midboss> yeah thats why i was wondering about that one specifically
<garrison> those guys have been around forever but were basically all talk
<garrison> and behemoth didn't play ntsc at the time
<garrison> so his runs weren't really comparable to our own
<countdown42> did people not know that pal ran slower
<garrison> it was done with igt
<garrison> so they basically tried to do rough skill conversions for some reason
<Midboss> cant you do wonky stuff like bomb torizo skip real time on pal tho?
<garrison> they used to say behemoth's pal :32 was comparable to a :29
<countdown42> oh right right
<Midboss> or is that an extreme case, and its mostly the same
<garrison> which now that we know what a :29 looks like, lol
<Midboss> oh
<Midboss> haha
<garrison> its really different
<garrison> its one of those games where they sped up the player to match ntsc speeds
<garrison> but nothing else moves at that speed
<garrison> lots of other weird differences too
<garrison> like phantoon has entirely different patterns
<Midboss> hmm that sounds weird to even try and do a time conversion then
<Midboss> but that also doesnt surprise me
<garrison> yeah things were different back then
<garrison> sda had a pal converter they hosted and they would convert all pal times
<garrison> not that it mattered for sm
<Midboss> was that actually useful for some games?
<garrison> you could argue that some games had an unfair advantage on pal because the game moves slower
<garrison> so you have larger windows for tight stuff and then the time gets converted as if the game was moving faster
<Midboss> that makes sense
<Midboss> oh yeah back to sm story time
<Midboss> so who was the first person to beat hotarubis time?
<garrison> me
<Midboss> with what time?
<garrison> 49:22
<garrison> I had tied it before that
<Midboss> mostly the same strats still?
<Midboss> or is this post skipping spazer and stuff
<Midboss> and crab supers i guess
<garrison> at this point I was skipping spazer, skipping ridley tank, and doing fast pillars
<garrison> also crab supers yeah
<garrison> so I saved 8 doors
<garrison> and a bunch of pause menus
<Midboss> how much time is a door anyway?
<Midboss> i feel like thats something i should know
<garrison> depends on the door and how you enter it
<Midboss> well yeah a door with no transition
<garrison> about 2 seconds to be rough
<Midboss> i learned aaaalll about doors moving a while ago lol
<garrison> that was basically my way to catch hotarubi despite not being at the same skill level
<garrison> the igt on my run was a :33 compared to his :31
<Midboss> wow its that much off?
<garrison> yeah
<garrison> skipping items really helped
<garrison> iirc hotarubi got 25%
<garrison> and I was getting 22%
<Midboss> my igt with a 49 is 33 too, so its interesting how much closer to my strats you probably were than his
<Midboss> oh is item fanfare igt?
<garrison> yeah the modern route that most people use is pretty similar to what we were doing
<garrison> item fanfare stops the game timer
<Midboss> i didnt know that, i thought it was just like door transitions and pauses
<garrison> yeah that's why it was beneficial for me to skip more items
<garrison> I pushed the game pretty hard for a long time
<Midboss> you didnt have the record continously did you though?
<garrison> we toyed with the idea of different routes for a while too to see if we could shave off more time
<Midboss> i thought kassiuz had it
<garrison> I had the wr from 49:22 to 47:50
<garrison> kottpower was the first person to beat me
<garrison> I was the first to beat hotarubi in anything
<garrison> since hotarubi was around only 4 other people have had the wr
<garrison> myself, kott, zoast, behemoth
<Midboss> oh, i didnt know it was that few
<Midboss> what did you do to push it down to 47:50?
<Midboss> better movement?
<garrison> yeah better movement, better luck
<garrison> tricks like the full halfy became doable without gravity jumping
<Midboss> oh you can gravity jump to get the full halfy lol?
<Midboss> i didnt know that
<garrison> the biggest change was we figured out how to xfactor phantoon without pausing and we skipped ice until later
<garrison> yeah its really hard that way lol
<garrison> but no one had the movement good enough for the trick, because no one knew about downgrabbing
<garrison> so you had way fewer frames to pull it off
<Midboss> yeah i was goign to ask when downgrabbing was starting to get used
<Midboss> since i havent seen a video with it yet
<garrison> msds was the one who really applied it
<garrison> me and him spent about a month off RTA to research optimizations
<garrison> inspired by krystal and audity's efforts at that time in alttp
<garrison> msds is probably the unsung hero of sm
<Midboss> this is still in 2011, or maybe 2012?
<garrison> 2012 at this point
<Midboss> and what kinda times did you guys have?
<garrison> that was when I went from like 48:25 to 47:50
<garrison> msds and dbx were always like 10-20 seconds behind my times
<garrison> I was a bigger grind monkey
<garrison> not so much a skill difference, I just dedicated way more time to doing runs
<garrison> kottpower actually improved really fast in the game
<garrison> it was kind of surprising when he beat me
<Midboss> do you know how long he had been playing the game when he did?
<garrison> kott was doing pal runs since like 2004
<garrison> but he didn't have great knowledge in the game
<garrison> once he became aware of what we were doing after the first ESA, his times got cut way down
<garrison> lol
<garrison> he wasn't even aware that there was a scene outside of m2k2
<Midboss> was the first esa 2011, or 2012?
<garrison> 2012 I think
<garrison> he went from a 54 to beating me in about 4-5 months
<garrison> and he wasn't streaming for a long time
<garrison> he used to frustrate me a lot because he refused to do fast pillars
<Midboss> haha
<Midboss> why not?
<garrison> he just didn't want to learn it
<Midboss> didnt he already 2 tap for things though?
<Midboss> its the same thing
<garrison> even though it saved like 9 seconds over the other strat
<garrison> I don't remember his reasoning behind it
<garrison> probably didn't stutter
<Midboss> thats a pretty easy 2 tap without a stutter though
<garrison> yeah idk
<Midboss> the camera is a bit wonky in that left room though
<Midboss> i learned the 3 tap because i really didnt like that left room
<garrison> yeah the left room is dumb
<garrison> I stopped playing at that time because it was kott's time to shine and I wanted to play other stuff
<garrison> I basically came back because I got talked into going to agdq
<Midboss> 2012?
<garrison> agdq2013
<Midboss> ah
<garrison> when I came back kott basically disappeared
<Midboss> did you run sm at that?
<garrison> yeah I did the same run
<garrison> the best that had been done at a marathon before that was a :42 igt
<Midboss> oh yeah, whats the story of how ua got sm into sgdq 2012
<garrison> and the year before uraniumanchor did a run where he died to ridley twice and didn't know what hole botwoon came out of
<garrison> he got like a :50 igt
<garrison> or something like that
<garrison> and just said a bunch of incorrect stuff
<garrison> that was the main reason why I decided to offer it
<garrison> because I thought that the marathon deserved a better run
<Midboss> ah
<Midboss> so how did your marathon run go?
<garrison> at the time my best was 47:26 and I got a 49:35 with animals saved
<garrison> I really wanted to beat hotarubi lol
<garrison> I almost died on phantoon too because he gave me one of those super rare patterns
<garrison> and I was really thrown off
<Midboss> oh wow, thats scary
<seancass> what surprise is it
<seancass> sunrise?
<garrison> sunrise surprise is the name
<Midboss> pretty sure sunrise = insta death in any
<garrison> that's what happened to epiclyepic this agdq
<Midboss> or did you survive it somehow?
<seancass> dang
<garrison> I'm just talking about him opening up in a weird place
<Midboss> i was so sad for epic this agdq
<garrison> like 1% of the time he'll open up quick there
<seancass> yeah i remember watching for a sec and seeing only 1 screen and :<
<Midboss> oh, i dont think ive even ever had a right fast
<seancass> then found out it was so sunrise surprise
<seancass> to*
<Midboss> is that more or less common than left mid?
<garrison> its funny because there was a thread about phantoon's patterns on m2k2 forumsjust before and reeve basically said he did a lot of research and he was missing patterns
<seancass> you get hit by all the fireballs or something?
<garrison> and when behemoth mentioned the one I got reeve said it was pal exclusive
<garrison> and I had to inform him otherwise
<Midboss> haha
<garrison> I said "shoutouts to reeve" during that run when it happened
<seancass> dang, tfw doing for others what you wish they'd do for you
<garrison> even though I was sure I was going to die
<Midboss> what kinda health did you have going into phantoon back then
<Midboss> i assumed you did ocean fly?
<garrison> over 200
<garrison> this was before botwoon tank replaced kraid tank
<Midboss> ah
<Midboss> so at this point
<Midboss> what kinda time did kott have before he quit
<garrison> he stopped with 47:37 for a while
<garrison> like somewhere between 4-6 months
<Midboss> when did he come back then?
<garrison> he came back and just barely beat my time
<garrison> we basically traded for 1 second like 4-6 times
<garrison> and then I beat his 47:16 with a 46:58
<Midboss> still in the 47m range?
<Midboss> oh
<Midboss> missed that last line
<garrison> then the game slowed for a bit again
<garrison> then kott and I traded again for a while
<garrison> I actually tied with him twice during that time
<garrison> pretty funny in hindsight
<garrison> we were tied with 46:50 and then I got 46:35 and he went quiet
<garrison> I kept trying to beat that run and get :30
<garrison> meanwhile kott was doing two different things
<Midboss> what were you guys doing to bring it down from the 47:50
<Midboss> still just better movement?
<garrison> he figured out the big metroid skip the way we do it now
<Midboss> or was a lot of work being done on strats still
<garrison> yeah it was mostly just better execution
<garrison> hitting skillcaps and finding out we were bad
<Midboss> also before i forgot
<Midboss> i was going to ask exactly what else you and msds found in that time you took off to examine the game
<Midboss> so you found about ledge grabbing
<Midboss> did you add stuff like more dboosts in then too?
<garrison> a lot of timing stuff
<garrison> there were a lot of flashy strats that weren't actually faster
<garrison> that people just assumed were faster
<garrison> like laying powerbombs to break bomb blocks being slower than just using a regular bomb and saving like a second of lag
<garrison> we did a lot of lag reduction stuff
<Midboss> how does lag work with igt?
<garrison> igt doesn't count lag frames
<Midboss> ah, so were these strats maybe a relic of the old igt stuff, or did no one know the difference back then
<garrison> yeah it was just stuff everyone was so used to doing that it took people a bit to reexamine
<Midboss> so you didnt start x factoring phantoon yet, when exactly did that start again
<garrison> xfactor phantoon was a thing just before hotarubi's :31
<garrison> we used the pause menu to time it and unequiped ice beam or spazer depending on the era
<Midboss> thats with the charge a normal beam jump and then equip wave for insta x factor or something right?
<Midboss> so when did pauseless happen?
<garrison> 4n6 had a doppler strat that used pause menus where instead of 2 charges and the x it did a single charge and an x followed by doppler
<garrison> so me and kassiuz messed with it and found it really inconsistent and awkward so we figured out how to do it with 2 xfactors instead
<garrison> with pauses at the time
<garrison> pauseless came from dessyreqt throwing out theory routes for 100% and saying that delayed ice beam was faster
<garrison> and that it might be faster for any% too
<garrison> I recorded a bunch of samples to try and figure it out and dessy found that it was like 30 seconds faster
<garrison> so we were inspired that night to all get together and try to figure out all of phantoon's patterns and find setups for all of them
<garrison> and we immediately remember what me and kassiuz did like a year before with 2 xfactors and brought it back
<garrison> and then after all the dessy said he did the math wrong and the two routes were even
<garrison> lol
<Midboss> haha
<Midboss> so is it really not faster?
<Midboss> i dunno who to believe now
<garrison> mrlandmaster found the hero shot up red tower that we used to do and dessy didn't take the two pause menus you skip into consideration
<garrison> so it went from being even to about 10 seconds faster
<Midboss> oh i see
<Midboss> how consistent were your setups back then?
<garrison> pretty consistent
<Midboss> ive seen soo many setups for each pattern its crazy
<garrison> I'd say about 75% success rate at the time
<Midboss> thats not too bad
<Midboss> were you guys resetting for patterns back then
<Midboss> or was it pretty negligible
<garrison> I was around the mid 46 level
<garrison> I got really frustrated
<garrison> that's when I went through my really mad phase with the game that made countdown hate me lol
<garrison> I was kind of a dick
<Midboss> when was this like mid 2013?
<garrison> yeah
<garrison> about two years ago
<garrison> march something or other
<garrison> baiscally the big breakthrough was kott figuring out the big metroid skip because it was thought of as a segemented run only thing for a long time
<Midboss> so this is after kott stopped with a high 46 and you kept driving it lower?
<garrison> deemed too hard for real runs
<garrison> yeah kott was in the lab
<garrison> I was really thankful for the big metroid skip because I got a good run with it and I was satisfied with the game
<garrison> but kott also pulled a behemoth at that time
<garrison> people have kind of forgotten about it but the kraid tank to botwoon tank route was kept a secret from me
<garrison> while I was grinding
<garrison> because kott wanted to beat me with it in secret
<garrison> lol
<Midboss> oh wow
<Midboss> so much backstabbing in this games history
<Knox> ive been enjoying this lore btw
<Midboss> did he ever beat your time with it?
<Knox> just reading
<garrison> yeah its pretty funny stuff
<garrison> he beat my 46:11 with a 46:10
<Midboss> how much faster is the route
<Midboss> like 5s?
<garrison> and I even though I was thinking about coming back decided I didn't care anymore
<garrison> since I got beaten by a route
<garrison> iirc 10-15
<garrison> because it skipped a refill
<Midboss> oh, i didnt think about that
<Midboss> so who else was a high level player around this time
<Midboss> was zoast up there yet?
<garrison> around that time zoast had just started to prove himself
<garrison> he got like a 48:40 when me and kott were trading
<garrison> and kott did what he normally did and took a long hiatus and zoast beat him with a 45:45
<garrison> and the game was thought of as "done"
<Midboss> you stopped at a 46:10, i thought you have a mid 45
<garrison> because super metroid players are really bad at guessing limits
<countdown42> 8)
<garrison> I came back after behemoth's run came out
<Midboss> oh i see
<Midboss> was this practice for agdq 2014?
<Midboss> i dont remember timeframes anymore
<garrison> behemoth's run came from nowhere with the first :29 igt and a bunch of crazy strats that they had kepts secret in a private thread
<Midboss> when did behemoth happen?
<garrison> he appeared during sgdq2013
<garrison> like the day before zoast did his 100% run that marathon
<Midboss> ah
<countdown42> i remember behe's run
<countdown42> zoast was bummed lol
<Midboss> so this isnt the new route
<countdown42> he spent like 10 hours a day that sgdq grinding
<Midboss> this happened before?
<garrison> nah not yet
<countdown42> i felt bad the dude did basically nothing else
<garrison> same route we were doing just with a bunch of crazy strats
<Midboss> how many times has behemoth done this now........
<garrison> 3
<countdown42> wait so the most recent, sgdq 2013 and ...?
<Midboss> 2 new route ones countdown
<garrison> he had another low 45 that he threw out there
<garrison> to beat zoast lol
<countdown42> oh after zoast came back with the 45:2x right
<garrison> well I guess that means 4
<garrison> because behemoth recently had that 43:11 or whatever
<garrison> lol
<Midboss> oh lol......
<Midboss> so zoast bopped kott with high 45
<Midboss> then got behemothed
<garrison> behemoth and his crew really make me not want to care about the game lol
<garrison> yeah that's right
<Midboss> then he got a 45:2x really quickly
<Midboss> and got behemothed again?
<garrison> yea
<Midboss> so hes done it 4 times to specifically zoast
<garrison> and to no one else
<Midboss> thats just mean
<countdown42> rofl
<countdown42> i shouldn't be laughing but shit
<Midboss> i had no idea
<Midboss> i thought it was just 2
<garrison> I also found out later that he was secretly trying to beat me to :30 igt
<garrison> lol
<garrison> but I got it first
<Midboss> nice
<countdown42> that video, were you going for rta at the time or igt?
<Midboss> so what was behemoths 2nd time
<Midboss> low 45 still?
<countdown42> the 46 rta 30 igt
<Midboss> i think rta
<Midboss> but still liked getting igt?
<countdown42> yea i'd imagine regardless the igt would still hold some value
<garrison> I always liked igt, but thought realtime was a better metric
<garrison> I just wanted to beat hotarubi completely
<garrison> and being tied igt bothered me
<garrison> even though my execution was a lot better
<garrison> all the realtime strats really hurt
<Midboss> ah
<Midboss> so what happened 45 and lower
<Midboss> this was about when agdq 2014 was rolling around maybe?
<garrison> zoast kept pushing
<garrison> and behemoth hit a brick wall
<garrison> at least thats what he said
<garrison> ivan and krauser were doing better and better
<garrison> and the three of us were racing to 44
<Midboss> you had come back at this point right?
<Midboss> ah ok
<garrison> and I kind of gave up rta and just started doing a bunch of practice
<Midboss> did it pay off?
<garrison> I kind of wanted to sendoff the game for myself with that marathon
<garrison> and then I had shit luck and got flustered and died
<garrison> lol
<garrison> appropriate sendoff
<Midboss> what happened in that anyway?
<Midboss> i didnt know the game at all then, but i watched it
<Midboss> and i think you died to pirates lol?
<garrison> yeah
<countdown42> didnt u kego with like 90hp
<Midboss> just back health from daygon to lower norfair?
<garrison> I did double kago without looking at my health
<garrison> lol
<Midboss> haha
<Midboss> sick
<garrison> I was so far behind at that point it didn't matter
<Midboss> do you know off the top of your head your 4 times before that race?
<Midboss> maybe ballparks?
<garrison> I had really awful phantoon and draygon luck
<garrison> iirc zoast had 44:35, ivan 44:50, krauser 44:54, me 45:17
<Midboss> dude andy was telling me krauser was the underdog for that race
<Midboss> what a lier
<garrison> I honestly should have rta'd a bit more so I wouldn't have gotten shit on so much, but I don't really care anymore lol
<garrison> yeah krauser was just the unknown
<Midboss> ah
<garrison> krauser had like maybe 10 viewers in his stream max
<Midboss> did you join weeklys really ever in the past few years?
<garrison> uhhh I've joined maybe 10 weekly races in the last two years
<Midboss> i feel like those woulda been good to do
<Midboss> rusty runs every week
<garrison> yeah they're fun whenever I come back
<garrison> honestly I kind of hate to say it because it sounds like I have a big head but it kind of bugs me to shit out a 48 and still beat so many people in the community in the weekly races
<Midboss> haha
<garrison> game is harder than I remember it being I guess
<Midboss> come beat me any time
<Midboss> i wont mind
<garrison> haha
<Midboss> and yeah i dunno, maybe youve just played it for so long
<Midboss> but i found this game really really really difficult
<countdown42> from everyone I know who picked it up as a side game
<Midboss> so many things i was uncomfortable with
<Midboss> like a snes game in general
<countdown42> they're all like 'yea i suck'
<Midboss> and learnign to claw
<Midboss> etc
<Midboss> everyone sucks
<Midboss> the game is just so hard
<countdown42> cfb seems to be moving on up there
<countdown42> he's been putting in some work
<garrison> I still think its the best 2d run
<garrison> even though I kind of hate the game now
<Midboss> yeah hes put a lot of effort into it
<garrison> lol
<garrison> cfb will beat japan soon
<Midboss> yeah so do you like really hate the game now?
<Midboss> how come?
<garrison> I really like the mechanics and I have fun playing it, I just get really frustrated with it
<garrison> it frustrates me way more than any other game for some reason, every small mistake knaws at me
<Midboss> if you were to join a race and get a 48 would you probably be frustrated the whole race?
<garrison> while like any other game I can shrug it off
<Midboss> i feel that way with some games i come back to
<garrison> it depends, most of the time when I come back I surprise myself with how well I do and then I struggle at draygon
<countdown42> > every small mistake knaws at me
<garrison> and lose a billiion in lower norfair
<countdown42> i got really bad with this and kirby
<garrison> yeah cd, that's a large part of the reason I wanted to stop playing
<garrison> I spent way too much time being mad
<countdown42> yea lol same
<Midboss> i wonder if the frustration comes with the difficulty of the game, or the years youve spent playing it
<garrison> and I'm not an angry person in general lol
<garrison> I honestly think its the time I spent
<countdown42> especially when usedpizza and suzu and pure came along and were like 'yea this game is easy'
<garrison> same thing over and over again
<countdown42> made me feel like a retard cause my time is really bad and my sob is like 3min better
<countdown42> yea
<countdown42> practice will do that
<garrison> I feel like zoast has been able to keep it fresh for him because he does like every category
<Midboss> i cant even comprehend playing a game for 5 years honestly
<garrison> while the only one I ever took seriously was any%
<Midboss> i get sick of games after 6 months tops
<countdown42> zoast amazes me tbh
<countdown42> his pateince
<Midboss> yeah i asked zoast about it last sgdq
<garrison> I've seen zoast get mad more and more these days
<garrison> it kind of cracks me up because I can relate
<garrison> lol
<garrison> or seeing zoast get mad at his chat sometimes
<countdown42> well tbf his chat kinda sucks
<Midboss> hmm ive never seen him mad at his chat?
<countdown42> i have once or twice, he just takes the chat off his layout
<garrison> he hasn't done it much lately
<garrison> he's gotten better about it
<garrison> a year ago I saw him snap on a couple of occasions
<garrison> dude all sm chats suck
<garrison> that's a large part of the reason I was okay with giving up my partnered channel
<garrison> to have a channel with just friends and not a million idiots asking me to play sm
<Midboss> oh was that why you switched?
<garrison> I switched mostly because I wanted to ditch the _tt in the nick
<garrison> that's why I got partner in the first place
<Midboss> what does _tt stand for anyway?
<garrison> but then as soon as I got it they flipflopped the policy
<garrison> talkingtime
<garrison> it was a forum I used to post on like 6 or 7 years ago
<Midboss> ah
<Midboss> and wait they flipflopped the policy?
<Midboss> i thought all paterners have always gotten free name changes
<garrison> yeah it used to be that way
<countdown42> nope
<Midboss> thats dumb
<garrison> and as soon as I got it partnered channels couldn't change anymore
<garrison> so epiclyepic had a namechange he couldn't use and he offered it to me
<garrison> so I used it on an alt
<Midboss> nice
<Midboss> whats the story of epic and 100% btw
<Midboss> he had the record forever ago right?
<garrison> nah its nothing like that
<garrison> he took it from zoast once when zoast was doing other categories, but that's about it
<Midboss> ah
<garrison> and zoast took it back really quick when he got back to it
<Midboss> sounds about right
<Midboss> no one else ever got close right?
<Midboss> ivan is maybe a few min off?
<garrison> ivan and dbx had good times
<countdown42> i thought kott was into hundo for a bit
<Midboss> oh yeah recently he was wasnt he countdown
<garrison> kott picked it up recently and beat zoast
<garrison> zoast took it back though
<Midboss> why did you never do other categories gari?
<countdown42> fuck dude
<countdown42> the seek bar is broken on zoast's PB
<garrison> I didn't like 100% because there wasn't much risk of death
<Midboss> what about RBO
<garrison> I'm not really a completionist when it comes to speedrunning, I tend to just like the fastest categories to show off to people
<Midboss> thats the category i have my eye on
<Midboss> it looks pretty fun
<garrison> RBO I honestly think is kind of dull, or at least it was back then
<Midboss> why not real any% or whatever then?
<garrison> it was just a bunch of collecting
<Midboss> hmm i think its a lot better now
<garrison> glitched any% wasn't a real thing when I was playing
<Midboss> oh is that pretty new?
<countdown42> http://puu.sh/gVXYP/af62992b75.jpg
<Midboss> yeah can i get the history of old stuff that is pretty much banned in any% now?
<Midboss> like GT classic and xray stuff
<garrison> yeah
<garrison> when that stuff came around we basically talked about it and decided that we liked any% the way it was
<Midboss> when was this
<garrison> and basically its just a no oob no gt category
<Midboss> like how old is GT classic?
<garrison> this was like late 2013
<garrison> gt classic is from 2011
<garrison> I was the first one to take it somewhat seriously
<garrison> I thought it was a pretty fun thing to do after pbs occasionally
<garrison> also I just checked and I have 638 super metroid races
<garrison> 243 1st places
<Midboss> all from 2011 lol?
<garrison> 157 quits
<garrison> yeah I was pretty much done racing outside of weeklies after 2012
<garrison> I raced the shit out of the game with msds and kassiuz
<garrison> we would do like 3-5 any% races a night
<Midboss> yeah ive heard all about the glory days of 2011 srl