11:39:17 AM) gavin_tremlor: (1:13:38 AM) the_mittani: that's why i took tib aside and told him about the megaalliance strategy on mumble earlier   (1:13:54 AM) the_mittani: because it's true none of our shit makes sense unless you realize we literally dgaf about fcon
(11:39:32 AM) Alavaria: ?
(11:39:41 AM) hvac: xander doesnt really record anymore and taka and i didnt want to continue the american cz one
(11:39:54 AM) angry_mustache: Alavaria:  latest lemba leak
(11:39:58 AM) baculus_orden: is CZ english?
(11:40:05 AM) angry_mustache: hvac:  hence why Jeffraider runs the podcast now?
(11:40:06 AM) baculus_orden: british*
(11:40:10 AM) hvac: xander and jeg are both scottish
(11:40:11 AM) brutus_septimius: crossing zebras
(11:40:12 AM) angry_mustache: scottish
(11:40:45 AM) hvac: xander spends half his time offshore and cant do records so for a while taka and i would do shows while he was offshore
(11:41:17 AM) the_mittani: yeah they snipped off the context of that gavin_tremlor, that was in response to fcs raging about the 10-carrier group loss in north dek
(11:41:46 AM) the_mittani: ps morning all we got pastebin drama to go over because discussing megaalliances is apparently a shadowy conspiracy
(11:41:50 AM) koahi: morning mittens morning hvac
(11:41:51 AM) rc: http://41.media.tumblr.com/e869d7285c389eb7023073e4c4e08380/tumblr_nah80lomec1s3vpl9o1_1280.jpg
(11:41:54 AM) baculus_orden: wait - these logs are editted!?
(11:41:58 AM) harataka: GASP
(11:42:04 AM) kismeteer: why would anyone care about fcon losing 10 carriers?
(11:42:05 AM) Alavaria: eh, oh you were discussing megaalliances well before, of course
(11:42:11 AM) gavin_tremlor: right, which happened as I understand itbecuase we were ordered to defend UQ9 instead of withdrawing to Sarenan three weeeks as xPred requested.
(11:42:12 AM) gumbo_innit: the_mittani: I want to be the butt of this new mega alliance pls
(11:42:14 AM) gumbo_innit: where do I signup
(11:42:15 AM) hvac: angry_mustache: jeffraider started his own podcast and worked out a deal with cz to host it
(11:42:17 AM) Alavaria: I was wondering if he somehow was leaking after bgetting purged
(11:42:21 AM) gavin_tremlor: three week ago*
(11:42:36 AM) the_mittani: yeah the megaalliance shit is such a big scandal we've had multiple people posting about it, including our allies, and talking about it on fireside chats
(11:42:40 AM) brutus_septimius: it was all discussed and agreed upon at the 2006 yacht bbq, rite?
(11:43:05 AM) Alavaria: take more pictures
(11:43:06 AM) Alavaria: !yacht
(11:43:24 AM) imperium_romanus: i did yacht see that coming :p
(11:43:28 AM) kismeteer: the absorbtion of wildly inappropriate has shown that mega alliances don't work.  oh wait, they're awesome now and there is like 1/10th the drama
(11:43:29 AM) Alavaria: so we can set up rc to ... actually wait, it would be troublesome to be spammed if we were discussing yachtfleet
(11:43:46 AM) gavin_tremlor: I feel completely unclear about where FCON stands in the imperium.  We controlled and maintained (ADM's) an entire region on behalf of the imperium for a long time, and seem to have been left to die on the vine in response
(11:43:47 AM) laba_hanaya: The north dek carrier loss happened because someone decided - against all advice and common sense - take a camped gate instead of spending extra 45min suffering from fatigue.
(11:44:07 AM) the_mittani: sunlight is the best disinfectant so let me c&p what i said to the autocrats about this in our little slak
(11:44:35 AM) isphirel: when will i be able to submit FOIA requests to the direktorate
(11:44:37 AM) the_mittani: ll that shit is real with context snipped off, yep, including me saying 'dgaf about fcon'

[11:17]
that was the day the tiberizzle rage out happened, and he was yowling about the carrier losses from fcon moving 10 caps through north dek

mittens [11:18 AM]
there's pretty much every opportunity in illum to see me say that i don't give a shit about any given 'crisis' every day

[11:19]
example: in uq9 fcon lost some canes to bombs and my fcs were flipping the fuck out in illum because one fc had yelled at another fc over global to not use canes

[11:19]
probably there'll be a leak with me saying it doesn't matter, who cares

mittens [11:21 AM]
here's some more from that day

[11:22]
this is just after the 'dgaf' remark, you can see the 'lol carrier loss' bullshit in illum i'd been deflecting them from
(11:44:37 AM) rc: http://41.media.tumblr.com/1da28d20649fab97a2bb9b745bedba2b/tumblr_o51cofo1kn1s3vpl9o1_1280.jpg
(11:44:38 AM) kismeteer: I wish we could solve these problems through what we're best at: posting.
(11:45:01 AM) the_mittani:
mittens [11:23 AM]
so yes, we don't give a fuck about fcon losing a carrier group in north dek because it doesn't matter at all given the restaging in saranen and adapting to the mechanics of the sov system

[11:24]
there's some stuff also leaked about me being worried about fcon losing uq9 and taking it poorly, that's something you always worry about with the loss of space of anyone anywhere

[11:25]
so one the one hand you have "mittani doesn't give a shit about allies lol" and in the very same amazingly controversial leak i'm openly fretting about the health of allies enduring loss
(11:45:02 AM) rc: http://40.media.tumblr.com/390889385ea5d67bc4969ab2f7039ef4/tumblr_o51cewyLTT1s3vpl9o1_1280.jpg
(11:45:12 AM) Alavaria: wow "leaks" straight into illum
(11:45:20 AM) querns: the other thing is that illum is, in general, considered to be a "private" space
(11:45:24 AM) Alavaria: this must be the war of logs
(11:45:29 AM) the_mittani:
mittens [11:28 AM]
(10:41:15 PM) the_mittani: i think sma and tnt are finally on the verge of widotting
(10:41:25 PM) the_mittani: the pressure is working

[11:29]
correct, the reality of the fozziesov defense shit is something we discussed at great length

[11:29]
how defending is increasingly impossible when the number of allied hackers turning up for ops keeps going down, and that's to be expected as pressure increases

[11:30]
we've talked about this for years off and on as you've seen and pure blind is pretty much impossible to defend unless we're under one banner

[11:30]
the funny thing about leaks is that i'm supposed to be all embarrassed by this instead of openly discussing it in front of all of you, like it's a conspiracy

[11:31]
our fcs periodically rage about how there aren't enough defensive hackers on ops, and defensive war the first phase is to keep your directors from blaming allies or defusing their nonsense, especially in a place where we ourselves make fuckups

[11:32]
a lawn guy independently arrived at the same conclusion and i linked his post during the fireside chat, and we went over this in front of an audience of thousands just yesterday
(11:45:30 AM) rc: http://36.media.tumblr.com/dd8f6a339132c7584d7ff5bbb8ce6639/tumblr_mgr3ypRsYe1s3vpl9o1_1280.jpg
(11:45:31 AM) isphirel: huh, somehow i didnt expect that your nick on your client is ""mittens""
(11:45:31 AM) rc: http://41.media.tumblr.com/cb307782a491caca7ac56062c7696d7f/tumblr_nah7kw6esQ1s3vpl9o1_1280.jpg
(11:45:35 AM) querns: one of its roles as a private space is to be the area in which we vent our frustrations about shit
(11:45:42 AM) kismeteer: how long has it been since we've had a major illum leak, anyway?
(11:45:52 AM) querns: when you deal with Other People, be they internet video game allies, or even a spouse, sometimes you disagree and become frustrated with one another
(11:45:55 AM) saya_nakamura: What's up with the SRP page?
(11:45:57 AM) kismeteer: since boat was kicked back in 2014?
(11:46:02 AM) the_mittani: voila
(11:46:04 AM) the_mittani: behold
(11:46:18 AM) querns: so we asked our FCs to vent their military frustrations in illum where their freakouts wouldn't do a bunch of unnecessary damage
(11:46:21 AM) the_mittani: in the same leaks gsf hates our allies yet at the same time is fretting about their health and welfare
(11:46:24 AM) Alavaria: querns: i take the the badguy comms being leaked are different?
(11:46:28 AM) the_mittani: how can this beeeeeee
(11:46:35 AM) XiTal: lol get owned d-name threadposters
(11:46:40 AM) breaky: SPIN SPIN SPIN
(11:46:41 AM) isphirel: back in the day blawrf said illum is basically just the most chaotic squad in the alliance or something
(11:46:43 AM) Alavaria: skype?
(11:46:46 AM) tantaria_stavanghar: saya_nakamura: new url https://affordablecare.goonfleet.com/
(11:46:54 AM) saya_nakamura: tantaria_stavanghar: thanks
(11:47:06 AM) Alavaria: are they like 1-to-1 skype chatting, or ircing or what exactly are they using?
(11:47:08 AM) baculus_orden: I have been loyal for 28 seconds
(11:47:15 AM) gavin_tremlor: thanks Mittani, extra info helps, which is why I came in here
alartarn Alavaria
(11:47:22 AM) querns: they vent in a "private" space, they get feedback from people who know more or know different than they do, the frustration gets resolved, and we move forward
(11:47:23 AM) Alavaria: because the formatting on some of those pastebins is pretty annoying
(11:47:24 AM) sixx_spades: would it be too much opsec to just post the logs of those conversations in their entirety?
(11:47:29 AM) the_mittani: Alavaria: that's slack logs from moments ago, autocrats all have a slack channel
(11:47:31 AM) querns: you can't be in a relationship with anyone and not experience friction
(11:47:35 AM) harataka: Yes when imperium bosses vent it's OMG LEAKS when MBC bosses vent it's "who cars didn't know that guy anyway"
(11:47:43 AM) querns: even one as silly sounding as a video game partnership relationship
(11:48:13 AM) the_mittani: pretty much every single day in every directorate someone will see an ally lose a fleet or something and someone will rage out - when gsf fucks up, allied fcs rage and vice versa (we usually fuck up more than they do)
(11:48:31 AM) querns: or a GSF FC will lose a fleet :v:
(11:48:32 AM) koahi: why not just have fun and be cool ))
(11:48:39 AM) laba_hanaya: I choose to trust "I don't like fights, I spent all my days trying to create fights but now I'm a bad dad and it's all sion's fault" Lemba's version, he seems like a level headed guy
(11:48:40 AM) querns: doesn't always have to be allies :haw:
(11:48:52 AM) the_mittani: i'd say 50% of what autocrats do on any given day is sin-eating, letting directors/fcs vent, telling them why they shouldn't care, and refocusing them on objectives
(11:49:02 AM) harataka: emba "Mittani made me be a bad father"
(11:49:21 AM) the_mittani: this is particularly the case when you're in defensive war because the first phase of defensive war always involves loss
(11:49:25 AM) harataka: also horde staging local is seriously boring
(11:49:30 AM) Avatharian: Lemba became a bad father when he chose to play a videogame instead of take care of his family.
(11:49:32 AM) querns:
|   ||
||  |_
(11:49:33 AM) riddy_zanguard: How do I get logs from directorbot on Pidgin?
(11:49:41 AM) breaky: querns: hahaha
(11:49:49 AM) Alavaria: in any case, if that's illum aren't the fcon directors there as well anyway?
(11:49:55 AM) the_mittani: there's a reason we have everyone welcome in elysium, not just goons, and why i'm happy to reply to anyone from fcon or other allies, like gavin_tremlor
(11:49:55 AM) querns: no
(11:49:58 AM) Alavaria: or did i confuse that with something else
(11:49:59 AM) querns: illum is GSF-only
(11:50:02 AM) isphirel: illum =/= autocrats
(11:50:11 AM) querns: autocrats is where the alliance figureheads hobknob
(11:50:19 AM) koahi: can i come? ))
(11:50:20 AM) xenuria: lelelel
(11:50:24 AM) isphirel: isnt an autocrat the opposite of a figurehead
(11:50:37 AM) querns: im a figurehead irl
(11:50:39 AM) jenilee_spartan: is it possible to beat a svipul in a stabber
(11:50:39 AM) geeshizzle_maccloud: the_mittani: tbh i find it hard to believe those logs when theyre coherent full sentences and not broken to fuck up
(11:50:41 AM) riddy_zanguard: nvm, someone pinged directorbot at the right time
(11:50:41 AM) teufelsbeitrag: Have we plugged the leaks yet?
(11:50:45 AM) your_neighbor: Can xenuria go?
(11:50:51 AM) xenuria: Go where?
(11:50:54 AM) hvac: literally someone in cz slack just said that years of inactivity is what's going to kill us THESE GOD DAMN PEOPLE
(11:50:59 AM) teufelsbeitrag: I mean I enjoy reading all of our dirty secrets and shit but it's getting ridiculous now lol
(11:51:03 AM) gavin_tremlor: Thanks Mittani, I just want to understand what's going on.  I'm getting a lot of info from many differnt "sources" all claiming to be credible.  Most of which is contradictory and much of it seems like BS.
(11:51:12 AM) the_mittani: well i think there's a common thread
(11:51:14 AM) querns: there's a lot of flak going on right now gavin_tremlor
(11:51:17 AM) tom_kavees: riddy_zanguard: open the buddy list -> Buddies -> view user log -> directorbot@goonfleet.com -> open/view/ok
(11:51:17 AM) querns: it's to be expected
(11:51:23 AM) the_mittani: like i always say on firesides, examine the evidence of game mechanics yourselves
(11:51:31 AM) tom_kavees: don't spew it all over internet tho :)
(11:51:49 AM) riddy_zanguard: tom_kavees: thanks :)
(11:52:00 AM) the_mittani: we've been talking about consolidating imperium alliances to take advantage of game mechanics and best practices for a long-ass while, and that accelerated a bunch with the fizzlesov defense making the burdens on small defenders so much worse
(11:52:21 AM) beidorion_eldwardan: hwy juar onw thing boss IF we form that mega alliance can we then do in as IMPERIUM
(11:52:24 AM) the_mittani: so for example for sma or tnt it's really hard to get enough counterhackers for large constellation zones, day in, day out
(11:52:50 AM) SloMoJoe: It's a literal truth that dudes are going to sperg out over in-game issues .. like to a lot it's the 'universe' when in reality its the meta that runs the game.. I'm just so glad I don't have to deal with it much directly. Mittens and anyone else in illum is taking a huge bullet for us all.
(11:52:51 AM) sixx_spades: this would have been a lot easier had ccp made those entosis modules with a attack/defend setting
(11:52:52 AM) tom_kavees: riddy_zanguard: pidgin also saves that shit to html files somewhere in your user directory
(11:53:02 AM) querns: at the end of the day we aren't gonna, like
(11:53:07 AM) querns: hold a gun to anyone's head
(11:53:11 AM) isphirel: i dont think you can widot tnt without breaking wibla :(
(11:53:14 AM) angry_mustache: I wonder if fozzie ever thought "making "blues" worthless in a fight just means mega-alliances become the norm"
(11:53:29 AM) your_neighbor: the_mittani, after the was is over assuming were still in the same place as before how much space would we hold? I'm assuming up to tribute?
(11:53:31 AM) laba_hanaya: querns: we know katanas are your threatening weapon of choice :colbert:
(11:53:33 AM) sachymetsu: unintended consequences
(11:53:39 AM) the_mittani: in those leaks you see us talking about this, abotu culture, and there's a line about 'the pressure is working' - the pressure is 'working' in the sense that i don't seem like a crazy guy shouting at the sky about fizzlesov mechancis, and there's no debate anymore about defender disadvantages for smaller alliances
(11:53:39 AM) SloMoJoe: Like it's not just second guessing.. it's like 15th order guessing
(11:53:43 AM) angry_mustache: isphirel:  maybe after a mittens-wibla-mrs. mittens pegging threesome
(11:53:44 AM) rc: http://41.media.tumblr.com/6c4fd990fa2ba625122a7ece9f82ab72/tumblr_nyvi3g8akT1s3vpl9o1_1280.jpg
(11:53:45 AM) sachymetsu: coalitions just become mega alliances
(11:53:46 AM) querns: :mk:
(11:53:50 AM) tom_kavees: angry_mustache: bloc wars will become new again, woo
(11:53:54 AM) sachymetsu: because people like to group up and be social
(11:53:58 AM) isphirel: angry_mustache: didnt you burn out or something
(11:53:59 AM) sachymetsu: whodathunk
(11:54:09 AM) Avatharian: inb4 CCP puts a cap on alliance size
(11:54:13 AM) angry_mustache: isphirel:  seeing the fucking retards smugging on /r/eve
(11:54:20 AM) angry_mustache: filled me with determination
(11:54:20 AM) riddy_zanguard: blap blap :toot: :toot:
(11:54:27 AM) isphirel: heh
(11:54:27 AM) the_mittani: so when i'm like "yo we need to merge some shit" it comes off as me strongarming, as opposed to the pressure of war where folks are like 'oh, yeah, this system blows on defense, mergers make sense'
(11:54:36 AM) the_mittani: behold, scandal and betrayal
(11:54:40 AM) angry_mustache: isphirel:  is tarrante in charge of recon?
(11:54:50 AM) angry_mustache: I still have 4 cyno V alts because of thim
(11:54:57 AM) kismeteer: cyno 5, best 5
(11:55:01 AM) isphirel: angry_mustache: i'd try schwa nuts or akasha
(11:55:02 AM) silk75: Kinda proud we have a verb from our corp name, to widot, widotted etc
(11:55:04 AM) isphirel: or arrendis
(11:55:09 AM) querns: aint language grand
(11:55:22 AM) isphirel: imagine how awox feels
(11:55:22 AM) querns: and yeah the current climate in our space is like
(11:55:23 AM) kismeteer: the widot merger showed it can be Wildly Successful
(11:55:24 AM) querns: my comfort zone
(11:55:32 AM) querns: my entire stable is born out of sashaying around "hostile" space
(11:55:42 AM) angry_mustache: silk75:  does anyone in widotte still remember what their old corp was like?
(11:55:51 AM) silk75: yeah
(11:55:52 AM) sixx_spades: old alliance*
(11:56:13 AM) the_mittani: i think i'm gonna just pastebin elysium scrollback and ping it
(11:56:18 AM) ubah_fo: CCP really  needs to get away from this "your alliances vs everyone else in eve" system
(11:56:26 AM) kismeteer: I've always said that being a huge alliance makes it easier to find people to fly with
(11:56:27 AM) the_mittani: so allies get a chance to see what's up if they weren't in here in the above
(11:56:30 AM) silk75: drunken thrasher roams, appalling comms, and really really bad posting
(11:56:36 AM) the_mittani: oh also i think i hit this
(11:56:59 AM) the_mittani: the megaalliance shit doesn't have to be all one megalliance, multiple ones are a more likely cultural fit
(11:57:07 AM) Yroc Jannseen: i just like that kismeteer is a verb
(11:57:14 AM) Yroc Jannseen: hi kismeteer
(11:57:15 AM) ubah_fo: maybe make it a war-dec system or something, or make the hacking have a non-zero cost like it does now
(11:57:18 AM) the_mittani: so like, fcon lawn bastion, not likely to fit well in a megaalliance with gsf
(11:57:18 AM) kismeteer: heh
(11:57:25 AM) kismeteer: I have not kismeteered much recently
(11:57:30 AM) kismeteer: other than nearly any entosis fleet I go on
(11:57:33 AM) silk75: our posting has improved since 2011, hard to believe I know.
(11:57:36 AM) laba_hanaya: :ohdear: are we expected to see one single red alliance?
(11:57:39 AM) the_mittani: but mechanically again, better to have 3-4 megaalliances on defense instead of 10
(11:57:49 AM) sachymetsu: my experience with corps/alliances is that the more successful alliances have a wider identity compared to not so successful ones, which tend to have people more focused on their corp identity instead.
(11:57:53 AM) the_mittani: anyone think this is a wildly controversial statement given fizzlesov mechanics
(11:58:00 AM) mishirosen: we just make one megallaiance thats all of nullsec and then we can just fight for gudfites only forever
(11:58:23 AM) teufelsbeitrag: the_mittani: Not particularly outlandish. I just don't see people being happy with it
(11:58:24 AM) sixx_spades: in a perfect world, the nature of the entosis module should be the one to change
(11:58:29 AM) atrum_veneficus: it's only wildly controversial if the_mittani says it
(11:58:29 AM) sixx_spades: where you can both attack and defend
(11:58:30 AM) nirnaeth_ornoediad: Maybe "alliance" just becomes "organization to help with NIPs", and corporations are where culture lives
(11:58:32 AM) kismeteer: the_mittani: can we just promise that if we do get kicked from all null sec, we will do nothing by going and killing our enemy's citadels?
(11:58:34 AM) querns: yeah, not everyone will be happy with the megalliance idea
(11:58:35 AM) atrum_veneficus: because he tells people to kill themselves
(11:58:35 AM) teufelsbeitrag: As you pointed out already, culturally Goonswarm is kind of 'difficult' lol
(11:58:36 AM) kismeteer: because I'm looking forward to that day.
(11:58:37 AM) sixx_spades: so you can still third party
(11:58:40 AM) klens_obort: sachymetsu: Agreed. Even when I was still in TNT, I found myself identifying more with the coalition than I did with TNT or even my corp.
(11:58:42 AM) atrum_veneficus: and has digi on a leash
(11:58:42 AM) kismeteer: fuck sov, I just want dead shit
(11:58:48 AM) the_mittani: we discuss tons of ideas in illum and game mechanics
(11:58:51 AM) Wibla: isphirel: I'd probably retire after a widot
(11:58:53 AM) sachymetsu: once people start becoming 'insular' within their own alliance and keeping amongst corp members, that's usually a bad sign
(11:58:55 AM) the_mittani: some of them work, some of them don't
(11:58:56 AM) querns: fairly candidly too
(11:59:05 AM) the_mittani: minifo didn't work, for example
(11:59:19 AM) angry_mustache: sixx_spades:  "entosis disruption script", "entosis sustainment script"
(11:59:19 AM) sixx_spades: what was minifo again?
(11:59:20 AM) atrum_veneficus: like the entire cloud ring shit
(11:59:23 AM) angry_mustache: PROBLEM FIXED
(11:59:28 AM) sachymetsu: because it means people are less likely to cooperate or step up on alliance wide issues
(11:59:28 AM) nakaori: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4eaudy/gsf_jabber_leaks/ <- wtf... please tell me most of this is faked.. >.<
(11:59:32 AM) sixx_spades: angry_mustache: exactly
(11:59:32 AM) Yroc Jannseen: omg the_mittani admits fialure someone post on reddit
(11:59:56 AM) atrum_veneficus: we have lots of Dumb Ideas that Don't Pan Out
(11:59:59 AM) harataka: makaori: out of context
(11:59:59 AM) atrum_veneficus: some of them are public
(12:00:01 PM) atrum_veneficus: some less so
(12:00:01 PM) the_mittani: anyhoo transparency and sunlight is the best way to handle attempts at making a scandal off half-ass leaks, gonna pastebin the above