Irclog

    <OneMatthias> http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/rc-rec-elc-cc-policy-changes.91274/
    <OneMatthias> So, what is your opinion on this?
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    <Zerokyuuni> it's reika. nothing of importance is there
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    <Vigaro> I think I broke google https://i.imgur.com/IpFLHoT.png
    <OneMatthias> Well, take a look at it at least. It is pretty interesting.
    <Zerokyuuni> it's reika. nothing of value is being said :v
    <Viper-7> oh reika...
    <Viper-7> lol Zerokyuuni, not in the club anymore? :
    <Viper-7> :P
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    <Zerokyuuni> OneMatthias, this is why nothing of value: https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/DragonAPI/tree/master/Exception
    <OneMatthias> Oh?
    <OneMatthias> I don't see the issue...
    <Zerokyuuni> every single one of those files are crash code
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    <OneMatthias> Mostly to prevent world corruption etc.
    <Zerokyuuni> no
    <Zerokyuuni> to prevent changes to his mods
    <OneMatthias> That is precisely what I was linking, was a change in that policy.
    <OneMatthias> It is going to become somewhat more open now.
    <Zerokyuuni> what he says and what he does are two different things
    <OneMatthias> Also, I can only see about 3-4 items in that list that are to prevent modifacation.
    <OneMatthias> modification*
    <OneMatthias> Most are issues with the installation or the configs.
    <[`-`]> OneMatthias: Or rather, what they SEE as issues with the installation or the configs.
    <OneMatthias> Id conflicts?
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    <OneMatthias> .jar.zip?
    <IoP> urgh. My irssi seriously derped after (d)dos
    <OneMatthias> version mismatches?
    <OneMatthias> Missing dependencies?
    <Viper-7> who made reika the minecraft police?
    <IoP> What happened now?
    <OneMatthias> Most of those deal with thing concerning his own mods.
    <Viper-7> reika with silly new ToS
    <OneMatthias> https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/DragonAPI/tree/master/Exception
    <OneMatthias> That is what started this discussion.
    <Viper-7> which wouldnt hold up in court, and if only selling minecraft mods was a thing, it could actually put him into some legal hot water :P
    <Viper-7> well, http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/rc-rec-elc-cc-policy-changes.91274/ did, but hey
    <OneMatthias> Yeah.
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    <OneMatthias> But most of those exceptions just a) Help inform the user of pack errors, and a couple just add strings to vanilla crashes.
    <Viper-7> lies :P
    <IoP> OneMatthias: So comminity should discuss using better error messages in every mod or what do you mean by linking into that exception folder?
    <OneMatthias> <Zerokyuuni> OneMatthias, this is why nothing of value: https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/DragonAPI/tree/master/Exception
    <Zerokyuuni> IoP,the short of it, reika went "pack makers can change my mod... if i give them specific permission for each and every change. server owners can go suck a dick though" but he still crashes on changes made
    <OneMatthias> Oh.
    <Viper-7> most of those exceptions are because a) Reika thinks he's better than everyone else, and is the minecraft police b) his ego wont let him do anything so modest as simply say "packs with unapproved changes are not supported"
    <OneMatthias> The commit has not been pushed yet.
    <OneMatthias> If that was the big issue..
    <OneMatthias> It just hasn't been released yet, and is coming as part of v7.
    <Viper-7> if my pack will break, let it break, dont break it for me.
    <Viper-7> all too often he breaks the game with a false positive detected by those crappy crash classes
    <Zerokyuuni> considering reika has a gigantic persecution complex, it's hard to trust that he'd actually go through with it
    <OneMatthias> Well, the way people are acting...
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    <Viper-7> actions breed opinions :P
    <OneMatthias> And if you read the really idiotic things said about modded mc thread, you will see why with the complex.
    <Viper-7> except, since i first ever heard of his mods, which i believe was quite early days for him too, its always been the same
    <IoP> Still I think that Reika's license/ToS is not the worst...
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    <Viper-7> its not about an event that's triggering paranoia, events are being created *from* his paranoia :P
    <Viper-7> the old "tell someone not to push a button" thing :P especially on the internet.
    <OneMatthias> http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/really-stupid-things-that-people-have-said-about-modded-mc-off-topicness-makes-moderators-tired.47641/page-171#post-954465
    <OneMatthias> Take a look at the last thing on that.
    <Viper-7> im not sayin the crazy aint justified :P
    <IoP> it might be too strict but at least it is consistent. Not like e.g. AE2 which is LGPLn in curse site but ""all rights reserver, do not redistribute, no commercial usage" in their web site.
    <OneMatthias> That is apparently fairly typical, and some of the stuff from his thread...I have seen things on his thread that were there before the moderators got to them that are horrid.
    <Zerokyuuni> oh a kid was mean to him when he was 12
    <OneMatthias> Fully read it.
    <Zerokyuuni> that totally is relevant
    <OneMatthias> There is a difference between mean and trying to get someone to commit suicide.
    <Viper-7> i was fat as a kid and teased heavily, and i've had two of my closest friends die, one in an accident, one suicide
    <Viper-7> i'm no picture of sanity, but i can also see when someone is going to extremes :P
    <Viper-7> and yeah, i just see reika being very public about things he doesnt want others to do, he's always been like that, and its a great way to motivate the trolls
    <Viper-7> so its a self fulfilling prophecy
    <Kodos> What's the button that makes NEI show unlocalized block/item names?
    <Zerokyuuni> for anyone knows, he could be remembering it wrong (see also, persecution complex) or have overinflated what happened. if it happened that way, that sucks, but again, 12 year olds >_>
    <OneMatthias> Also, in the MC community, some of the things that people did/said when the perms were a lot less restrictive take the cake.
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    <IoP> <3 https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/DragonAPI/blob/master/Exception/JarZipException.java
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    <IoP> That should be added into forge and do automatically if thwor automatically if such a mod is found
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    <OneMatthias> For instance, someone sold his tools, people destroyed the server with them, and the guy threatened to sue Reika over this. This is very, very mild.
    <Viper-7> sure, PR that to forge if you want to add that check
    <Viper-7> dont make your mod crash when other mods have an odd, but potentially valid setup
    <Zerokyuuni> here is what a sane person would say and/or do in that situation
    <Zerokyuuni> "bring it, bitch"
    <IoP> valid. Really?
    <Zerokyuuni> if it went anywhere, guess who would be getting money? not the bukkit server owner~
    <OneMatthias> Unfortunately, that is not an option. Let me see if I can find it.
    <Zerokyuuni> that is always an option
    <Zerokyuuni> ALWAYS an option
    <Zerokyuuni> laughing at them is an option too
    <Viper-7> OneMatthias: what about people suing him for specifically denying them use of his mod, which has been released into the public domain
    <OneMatthias> Not quite.
    <Viper-7> theres actually some very tricky legal precedents there that a TOS just cant sign away
    <IoP> Also those exceptions solve one really bad pebcak case. Users read and give only crashlog. Logging through loggers is useless because "nobody" reads logs. Using custom exceptions and long Exception.message seems to solve this problem ;)
    <Viper-7> especially one so vaguely worded as his
    <OneMatthias> It is visible source, and it is still his property, so a case would come out in his favor.
    <Viper-7> one could make an argument for his requirements for pack creation being an 'unreasonable burden' and completely safe to ignore
    <OneMatthias> Not true.
    <Viper-7> in something like agskies, very true
    <Viper-7> again, the only thing saving him here is that minecraft packs are hard to monetize thanks to mojang
    <OneMatthias> This is nothing compared to some corporate software I used to use.
    <IoP> Viper-7: also one could make an argument that pack author should not use it if it causes too much problems...
    <Viper-7> which means theres little profit in lawsuits
    <Zerokyuuni> there is one plus i can give to him though
    <OneMatthias> Want to get our product?
    <Zerokyuuni> and only one
    <Viper-7> IoP: if they have been using it, have content using it, and he suddenly blocks their server from using his mods with some magic killcode because they ignore his ToS, he's in the wrong, not them.
    <Zerokyuuni> which is the saddest plus i can give
    <Zerokyuuni> at least he's not logging every login ever done and every server ever started... like pixelmon did >_>
    <Viper-7> i see no mention whatsoever of his power or "punishments" for failure to comply with his terms
    <Viper-7> other than to call you a bad boy
    <Viper-7> and yeah, he has very shaky legal ground there
    <IoP> I thought that do not modife terms has been in his ToS for a long time now?
    <Viper-7> seeing as the mod is "freely available"
    <IoP> Is there some really recent change which started this discussion?
    <Viper-7> yes
    <OneMatthias> Yes, it has been for a while.
    <Viper-7> i linked it
    <Viper-7> http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/rc-rec-elc-cc-policy-changes.91274/
    <Viper-7> i think OneMatthias meant to link it earlier with that Exception list
    <Zerokyuuni> he changed it. 1) only for pack makers. 2) the change has to be extraordinarily minor, and 3) he gets to review and approve every single change
    <OneMatthias> #2 Not quite.
    <Viper-7> for a pack with thousands of changes across hundreds of mods, pack authors could be totally justified in saying "sod that"
    <OneMatthias> It has to still fit into rotarycraft, but aside from that.
    <Viper-7> reika can say he wont provide support for them
    <Zerokyuuni> just going off of RC, because that's the only mod of his that i have any knowledge of... it's a house of glass cards
    <Viper-7> he cant say they cant use his content based on those conditions
    <Zerokyuuni> if someone sneezes, the entire thing comes crashing down and breaks into a thousand pieces
    <IoP> So he added something which waas aalready checked in code level in a ToS and now people are crying?
    <OneMatthias> Also; Jadedcat's opinion on this: http://www.reddit.com/r/feedthebeast/comments/38g36s/reika_has_reviewed_his_modifications_policy/crv1st9
    <OneMatthias> Also, look at the full thing of comments on that.
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    <Viper-7> in other words "it shouldnt apply to me", or "sod this" :P
    <OneMatthias> Not quite.
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    <OneMatthias> More like: some tweaks are good, but there is not need to go overboard.