MORIARTY

5:04 AM <lseactuary> hey moriarty you there?
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5:35 AM <moriarty> hey lseactuary whassup
5:36 AM <lseactuary> need yto pick your math brain
5:36 AM <lseactuary> :P
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5:36 AM <moriarty> heh go ahead
5:36 AM <lseactuary> do you remember trapezium rule?
5:36 AM <moriarty> yep
5:36 AM <lseactuary> aesome
5:36 AM <lseactuary> awesome
5:36 AM <lseactuary> so basically i have total spend, total followers gained over 3 month period
5:36 AM <lseactuary> (on a daily basis)
5:36 AM <lseactuary> lets make up numbers. spent $1m. gained 100 followers
5:37 AM <lseactuary> so they went from 100 to 200 followers
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5:37 AM <lseactuary> what i want to show is if they plug in a monthyl spend and frequency
5:37 AM <lseactuary> how many followers they will get
5:37 AM <lseactuary> if i use the trapezium rule
5:37 AM <lseactuary> i can also show that investing continuously is better then one ump sum (or a few lump sums)
5:37 AM <lseactuary> assuming a concave function e.g. root x
5:37 AM <lseactuary> with me
5:37 AM <lseactuary> ?
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5:40 AM <moriarty> you could use a decay function and attractor basin to model how investing continuously would be more beneficial
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5:41 AM <lseactuary> the aim is to be able to pop in how much someone wants to invest, how frequently, and i pop out a follower number
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5:45 AM <lseactuary> moriarty i think i can use the trapezium rule here
5:45 AM <lseactuary> provided i assume the function is something like root x
5:45 AM <lseactuary> as continuous > discrete
5:45 AM <lseactuary> therefore problem solved
5:45 AM <lseactuary> the issue is im unsure how to set up the function
6:03 AM <lseactuary> moriarty any ideas?
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6:05 AM <moriarty> lseactuary, do you know what your supervisor wants?
6:06 AM <moriarty> she did say she didn't understand what a gaussian is
6:06 AM <moriarty> so do you reckon she'd understand what a trapezium rule is?
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6:07 AM <moriarty> there are easier ways to get sacked than to try really hard at delivering something nobody understands :P
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6:07 AM <moriarty> lseactuary, if i were you, i'd try to suss out very clearly a few things from her
6:08 AM <moriarty> 1) the project scope, in writing
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6:08 AM <moriarty> 2) have regular meetings to keep your progress on track
6:08 AM <moriarty> 3) the overarching objective, and the definition of success on your part
6:08 AM <moriarty> without these, you have all sorts of problems like moving goalposts etc
6:09 AM <moriarty> if possible, ask her what method she prefers you to execute
6:09 AM <moriarty> it's not going to be easy if she "leaves it to you" but then "disagrees with whatever you produce claiming it's too difficult, not what she had in mind"
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6:14 AM <lseactuary> moriarty she wants people to plug in budget and frequency and see that investing smaller constantly better then one ump sum
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6:15 AM <moriarty> lseactuary, i see, and you want a function to represent that?
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6:15 AM <lseactuary> i know the function is root
6:15 AM <lseactuary> *oot x shape
6:15 AM <lseactuary> the issue is actually moulding the function to make sense of the company data
6:16 AM <moriarty> who cares, it's just a model
6:16 AM <moriarty> do you get penalised for wrongly predicting? no
6:16 AM <lseactuary> lol ye but i need to derive it somehow
6:16 AM <moriarty> do you get a bonus for being optimistic about your predictions? no
6:16 AM <moriarty> so either way it doesn't matter
6:16 AM <lseactuary> ie i can just use root x sure
6:16 AM <moriarty> yeah just use the simplest case
6:16 AM <lseactuary> ok
6:16 AM <moriarty> don't burden yourself
6:16 AM <lseactuary> ok
6:16 AM <lseactuary> ok then i guess im done :P
6:17 AM <lseactuary> i just wrote if lump sum now = billed fans only
6:17 AM <moriarty> heh all predictions are bound to be wrong at some point
6:17 AM <lseactuary> if 2 lump sums 1st = billed only, second = billed + organic from billed
6:17 AM <lseactuary> and so on
6:17 AM <moriarty> so why make it so complicated
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6:17 AM <moriarty> if you're right, she might even say you're lucky
6:17 AM <moriarty> who's to say otherwise
6:17 AM <moriarty> lol
6:17 AM <lseactuary> ^^ is complicated?
6:17 AM <moriarty> spending too much time is complicating things unnecessarily
6:18 AM <moriarty> you should finish the model
6:18 AM <lseactuary> i dont think that is unomplicated
6:18 AM <moriarty> and in the meantime pretend like you're still working on it
6:18 AM <moriarty> and then just relax
6:18 AM <moriarty> :)
6:18 AM <lseactuary> haha
6:18 AM <lseactuary> well
6:18 AM <lseactuary> thats what im doing mostly today
6:18 AM <lseactuary> tweaking bits
6:18 AM <lseactuary> eting the free food :P
6:18 AM <moriarty> lol good
6:18 AM <lseactuary> i did mot of the model yesterday
6:18 AM <lseactuary> anything that was too complicated
6:18 AM <lseactuary> i just deleted
6:18 AM <lseactuary> lol
6:18 AM <lseactuary> whose to know
6:18 AM <moriarty> exactly
6:18 AM <moriarty> you're going to be wrong anyway
6:18 AM <moriarty> so why complicate things?
6:18 AM <lseactuary> yup
6:19 AM <moriarty> it's not as if you'd get a better answer by making it complex
6:19 AM <lseactuary> yup
6:19 AM <moriarty> and nobody cares what math you use behind it
6:19 AM <lseactuary> well this part is the only part i used math for
6:19 AM <lseactuary> rest is just multiplying and adding
6:19 AM <moriarty> good, spend more time on your powerpoint
6:19 AM <moriarty> annotate the hell out of everything
6:19 AM <lseactuary> she said no slides we dive straight into the model
6:20 AM <lseactuary> so i annotated the model
6:20 AM <lseactuary> so at least that would make sense
6:20 AM <moriarty> lol slides are important
6:20 AM <lseactuary> ye she said dont do them yet
6:20 AM <lseactuary> i drafted some but im wasting myt time
6:20 AM <lseactuary> if she STILL doesnt get this model
6:20 AM <moriarty> keep it simple
6:20 AM <lseactuary> i srsly quit if she doesnt understand this model
6:21 AM <lseactuary> this is basic
6:21 AM <lseactuary> as it can get
6:21 AM <lseactuary> add
6:21 AM <moriarty> always remember, she doesn't understand gaussian
6:21 AM <lseactuary> subtract
6:21 AM <lseactuary> ye ive only used
6:21 AM <lseactuary> add
6:21 AM <lseactuary> subtract
6:21 AM <lseactuary> multiply
6:21 AM <moriarty> okay good
6:21 AM <lseactuary> thats it
6:21 AM <moriarty> and be prepared for it to go either way
6:21 AM <moriarty> if she asks, why so simple
6:21 AM <moriarty> then be prepared with some mathematical concepts
6:21 AM <lseactuary> ye
6:21 AM <lseactuary> its logical simple
6:21 AM <lseactuary> not BS simple
6:21 AM <lseactuary> so i should be ok
6:21 AM <lseactuary> btw
6:22 AM <lseactuary> i wanted to ask her
6:22 AM <lseactuary> 'is it normal for someone to do the work and then someone else takes over mid way'
6:22 AM <moriarty> don't bother
6:22 AM <moriarty> find another job
6:22 AM <lseactuary> as im new here wasnt sure what was normal
6:22 AM <lseactuary> just to put it out thre that im being screwed over
6:22 AM <lseactuary> without saying it directly
6:22 AM <lseactuary> well new job is hard
6:22 AM <moriarty> like i said, find another job
6:22 AM <lseactuary> finance is crappy
6:22 AM <lseactuary> consulting is worse then this
6:22 AM <moriarty> don't have preconceptions
6:22 AM <moriarty> you thought this was a great job
6:22 AM <moriarty> was it?
6:22 AM <lseactuary> point
6:23 AM <lseactuary> but she can move me within the company
6:23 AM <lseactuary> shes powerful/connected
6:23 AM <moriarty> but will she?
6:23 AM <lseactuary> i asked her she said yes
6:23 AM <lseactuary> tell her wha i want
6:23 AM <moriarty> lol and you believed her
6:23 AM — moriarty facepalms
6:23 AM <lseactuary> the problem is idk what i want
6:23 AM <lseactuary> well what do i say
6:23 AM <moriarty> easy, tell her you want to be in the M&A department
6:23 AM <lseactuary> lol
6:23 AM <lseactuary> theres no such thing
6:23 AM <lseactuary> only corp dev
6:24 AM <lseactuary> or  business ops
6:24 AM <moriarty> i'm pretty sure there is
6:24 AM <lseactuary> i would like to try bus ops
6:24 AM <moriarty> i know a friend whose company got acquired by your company
6:24 AM <moriarty> :)
6:24 AM <lseactuary> M&A in a tech firm is back office
6:24 AM <lseactuary> more implemetation
6:24 AM <lseactuary> then actual proper work
6:24 AM <moriarty> yeah who cares
6:24 AM <moriarty> you're not thinking long term
6:24 AM <moriarty> get into M&A
6:24 AM <moriarty> then get out of there
6:24 AM <lseactuary> to get in i need to ask for projects
6:24 AM <lseactuary> overallping with them
6:24 AM <lseactuary> then weed myself in
6:25 AM <moriarty> put it this way, if you like the ego trip of knowing more than everybody else, then that company suits you fine
6:25 AM <moriarty> but if you're bored/frustrated, you've got no one to blame but yourself
6:25 AM <lseactuary> as remember i only studied finance at uni
6:25 AM <moriarty> exactly
6:25 AM <lseactuary> not worked in banking...
6:25 AM <moriarty> so you go and work for a tech firm?
6:25 AM <moriarty> brilliant move mate
6:25 AM <moriarty> lol
6:25 AM <moriarty> do you have a CS degree?
6:25 AM <lseactuary> ye because finance was shitty
6:25 AM <moriarty> i'm not saying CS is difficult
6:25 AM <lseactuary> well i did stts+finance
6:26 AM <lseactuary> *stats
6:26 AM <lseactuary> more stats then finance
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6:26 AM <moriarty> yeah go figure out what you want to do
6:26 AM <lseactuary> not finance
6:26 AM <lseactuary> :P
6:26 AM <moriarty> lol then you're not being practical
6:26 AM <lseactuary> then what do i do
6:26 AM <moriarty> and i'm sorry, but an impractical person will always be unhappy
6:26 AM <moriarty> :P
6:26 AM <lseactuary> there is a sales finance team here
6:26 AM <lseactuary> but i dont like any of them
6:26 AM <lseactuary> nor any of the work they do
6:26 AM <moriarty> i'm not saying you must love it
6:26 AM <lseactuary> its just all BS
6:26 AM <moriarty> but the idea is simple
6:26 AM <lseactuary> worse BS then what i work on now
6:26 AM <moriarty> you studied something, so let's see some ROI come out of what you put effort into in the past
6:27 AM <moriarty> and it may not be finance
6:27 AM <moriarty> but you should stretch your imagination
6:27 AM <lseactuary> well i would rather apply stats
6:27 AM <lseactuary> and i am
6:27 AM <moriarty> and see what fields would utilise your past efforts
6:27 AM <moriarty> and not bore you
6:27 AM <lseactuary> finance will bore me
6:27 AM <lseactuary> applying stats will not bore me
6:27 AM <lseactuary> when i threw myself into the stats ANOVA analysis
6:27 AM <lseactuary> i liked it
6:27 AM <lseactuary> but it didnt take very long :P
6:28 AM <moriarty> lol if that's your cup of tea, go for it
6:28 AM <moriarty> but i doubt that it is
6:28 AM <lseactuary> what do you mean?
6:28 AM <moriarty> well i know people who are statistical nerds
6:28 AM <moriarty> and somehow you don't fit a stereotype of that :P
6:29 AM <lseactuary> ye definitely not
6:29 AM <lseactuary> just saying when applying stats vs finance stats is more challenging in general
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6:29 AM <moriarty> i see
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6:29 AM <lseactuary> i should ask for more projects with copr dev or business ops
6:30 AM <lseactuary> then maybe i find more interesting stuff
6:30 AM <lseactuary> she did say shes trying to give me a mix so i can see what i like/am good at
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6:30 AM <moriarty> go out more
6:30 AM <moriarty> talk to people from each department
6:30 AM <moriarty> find out what their work is about
6:30 AM <lseactuary> i do
6:30 AM <moriarty> are the team members your cup of tea
6:30 AM <moriarty> etc
6:31 AM <lseactuary> so far i havent bumped into someone working on more interesting stuff then i already am
6:31 AM <lseactuary> typically the fun projects are 'dreams'
6:31 AM <lseactuary> as no one here knows how to implement shit
6:31 AM <lseactuary> so they go into a pile of untouched
6:31 AM <lseactuary> those are the fun ones
6:31 AM <lseactuary> the day to day job of most ppl is actualyl boring
6:32 AM <moriarty> try to get into finance :)
6:32 AM <moriarty> basically find something that you would like to get into
6:32 AM <moriarty> and don't stop trying
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6:32 AM <lseactuary> ye thats what im trying to do
6:32 AM <moriarty> you're at a place where the people are not particularly brilliant which implies a few things
6:32 AM <moriarty> 1) the salary is crap
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6:32 AM <moriarty> 2) the corporate reputation is crap
6:33 AM <lseactuary> get into something i like
6:33 AM <moriarty> 3) mismatch between your skills and job scope
6:33 AM <lseactuary> well i dont think 2 is true
6:33 AM <lseactuary> they pay more than google :P
6:33 AM <lseactuary> oh sorry 1
6:33 AM <moriarty> i can guarantee you if the salary is good, you won't get stupid people
6:33 AM <lseactuary> lol
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6:33 AM <moriarty> stupid people are symptomatic of shitty salaries
6:33 AM <lseactuary> you would be surprised
6:33 AM <lseactuary> i know stupid bankers
6:33 AM <moriarty> that's why investment banks are brilliant places to work at :)
6:33 AM <lseactuary> nope
6:34 AM <lseactuary> i know pretty thick people there too
6:34 AM <moriarty> you're a poor judge of talent then
6:34 AM <lseactuary> ....
6:34 AM <moriarty> it's common sense
6:34 AM <moriarty> if you have deep pockets, and have the world at your choosing
6:34 AM <moriarty> would you choose an idiot, or someone from a prestigious university?
6:34 AM <moriarty> etc
6:34 AM <lseactuary> depends on the job
6:34 AM <moriarty> any job
6:34 AM <lseactuary> i have worked with ppl from prestigious unis
6:35 AM <lseactuary> they ar enot that good
6:35 AM <lseactuary> i have worked with ppl with no degree
6:35 AM <lseactuary> they get shit done
6:35 AM <lseactuary> to a high quality
6:35 AM <lseactuary> so i gave up on the whole come from oxbridge/lse etc and you are good
6:35 AM <moriarty> that's not my experience
6:35 AM <lseactuary> because its not true at all
6:35 AM <moriarty> heh, then you're a poor judge of talent
6:35 AM <lseactuary> or you havent not had the same experience i have
6:36 AM <moriarty> perhaps
6:36 AM <moriarty> but what you say makes no sense
6:36 AM <lseactuary> ....
6:36 AM <moriarty> simple logic is indicative that top universities attract top talent
6:37 AM <moriarty> money begets money
6:37 AM <lseactuary> sure im not saying they are all dumb
6:37 AM <lseactuary> i know brilliant ppl from those unis too
6:37 AM <lseactuary> but typically they still dont go to banking :P
6:37 AM <moriarty> lol everybody goes to banking
6:37 AM <lseactuary> those are the phd types
6:37 AM <lseactuary> naa
6:37 AM <lseactuary> its marketing
6:37 AM <moriarty> every brilliant person i know goes to banking
6:37 AM <lseactuary> nope
6:37 AM <moriarty> yep
6:37 AM <lseactuary> well again
6:37 AM <moriarty> i know two very bright person on freenode
6:37 AM <lseactuary> your experience is differen tto mine
6:37 AM <moriarty> and they're in, tadahhh, finance
6:37 AM <moriarty> :)
6:38 AM <lseactuary> personal choice
6:38 AM <moriarty> lol it's common sense
6:38 AM <lseactuary> not really
6:38 AM <moriarty> and it's the only rational thing
6:38 AM <lseactuary> lets agree to disagree
6:38 AM <moriarty> if you're smart, and all jobs are shitty, you work for the one that pays the most
6:38 AM <moriarty> :)
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6:38 AM <moriarty> if you're working at a job that doesn't pay you much, it's clear they don't value your talent
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6:39 AM <moriarty> and it's clear they aren't hugely profitable
6:39 AM <lseactuary> ye im sure the bail out banks are :P
6:39 AM <moriarty> one of the nice things about being paid highly is 1) you know they bank on smart people to justify what they pay you, 2) there's lots of smart people there to generate the revenues to sustain those high salaries
6:40 AM <lseactuary> lol
6:40 AM <moriarty> so they won't fuck about with you
6:40 AM <lseactuary> srsly you have not seen what i have seen
6:40 AM <moriarty> give you shit projects etc :)
6:40 AM <lseactuary> LOL
6:40 AM <moriarty> because you know, they pay you too much to fuck you about
6:40 AM <lseactuary> i think you are deluded
6:40 AM <moriarty> lol if you're however paid peanuts...
6:40 AM <moriarty> then they can fuck about with you
6:40 AM <lseactuary> you think a new analyst
6:40 AM <moriarty> because you know, you're worth nothing anyway
6:40 AM <lseactuary> at a bank
6:40 AM <moriarty> :)
6:40 AM <lseactuary> works on anything interesting?
6:40 AM <lseactuary> nope
6:40 AM <lseactuary> they do al lthe grunt work
6:40 AM <moriarty> oh absolutely
6:40 AM <lseactuary> LOL
6:40 AM <lseactuary> liek what
6:40 AM <lseactuary> jerking the MD off
6:40 AM <moriarty> how else do you think i get such a high increment? :)
6:41 AM <lseactuary> you are not at a bank
6:41 AM <moriarty> i get put on projects with real business impact from day one
6:41 AM <lseactuary> sure
6:41 AM <moriarty> when i was at a bank, same thing
6:41 AM <lseactuary> then you got lucky
6:41 AM <moriarty> nah
6:41 AM <lseactuary> but typically an analys
6:41 AM <lseactuary> has no impact
6:41 AM <lseactuary> at a bank
6:41 AM <lseactuary> there are 100s of analysts joining
6:41 AM <moriarty> the difference between me and you, is that i see things for what it is
6:41 AM <lseactuary> in a scheme
6:41 AM <lseactuary> how do you think you will make a difference
6:41 AM <moriarty> if you can identify what drives people, and how systems work, everything becomes facile
6:42 AM <lseactuary> ...
6:42 AM <lseactuary> why dont you let this go
6:42 AM <lseactuary> im never going into finance
6:42 AM <moriarty> heh :) just trying to help you see things
6:42 AM <moriarty> idealism is a barrier to progress
6:42 AM <lseactuary> i get your point
6:42 AM <moriarty> pragmatism is the key to success
6:43 AM <lseactuary> but im working with what ive got
6:43 AM <lseactuary> im not getting into GS anytime soon
6:43 AM <lseactuary> and dont even want to
6:43 AM <lseactuary> so whatever
6:43 AM <moriarty> it's all about being relentless
6:43 AM <moriarty> 500 networking connections is not enough
6:43 AM <moriarty> try 2000
6:43 AM <lseactuary> [12:42] <lseactuary> and dont even want to
6:43 AM <moriarty> hehe
6:43 AM <moriarty> you know what differentiates poor people from rich?
6:44 AM <moriarty> it's not that rich people got lucky
6:44 AM <moriarty> they are relentless and shameless
6:44 AM <lseactuary> they had daddy bail them out?
6:44 AM <moriarty> they never stop trying
6:44 AM <lseactuary> oh
6:44 AM <moriarty> that's the difference
6:44 AM <lseactuary> well
6:44 AM <lseactuary> im trying in a different way ;)
6:44 AM <lseactuary> i dont need to be a GS
6:44 AM <lseactuary> i dont even like those ppl
6:44 AM <moriarty> good :)
6:44 AM <lseactuary> why go somewhere where you will churn and burn in 2 months
6:44 AM <lseactuary> when you can make a mark and push yourself hihger up
6:44 AM <lseactuary> in a better environment
6:45 AM <lseactuary> anyhow
6:45 AM <moriarty> because somebody's got to be the CEO of GS
6:45 AM <lseactuary> we sidetracked again
6:45 AM <lseactuary> sure
6:45 AM <lseactuary> but that aint me
6:45 AM <moriarty> if you listen to everybody who churn and burn...
6:45 AM <moriarty> then you might as well give up :)
6:45 AM <moriarty> but somebody's got to be the CEO
6:45 AM <lseactuary> ye
6:45 AM <moriarty> somebody's got to be partner
6:45 AM <lseactuary> not me
6:45 AM <moriarty> somebody's got to be VP
6:45 AM <lseactuary> sure
6:45 AM <moriarty> if everybody thought like you, GS would be without a CEO/VP
6:45 AM <moriarty> etc
6:46 AM <lseactuary> lol
6:46 AM <lseactuary> the beauty of everyone not thinking like me ... ;)
6:46 AM <lseactuary> if everyone thought i need to be CEO of GS
6:46 AM <lseactuary> all other companies would have no CEO ;)
6:46 AM <moriarty> lol well, there's no harm trying
6:46 AM <moriarty> aim for the stars, fall on the trees
6:46 AM <lseactuary> well whats the point now
6:46 AM <moriarty> aim for the trees, fall on the ground
6:46 AM <moriarty> :)
6:46 AM <lseactuary> i have no internship in banking
6:47 AM <lseactuary> only tech stuff
6:47 AM <moriarty> what i'm saying is, if you aim high and fall lower, that's to be expected
6:47 AM <lseactuary> no one wil be interested in my profile
6:47 AM <moriarty> so the best thing to do is to aim -really- high
6:47 AM <moriarty> that way, where you fall is better than most people
6:47 AM <moriarty> :)
6:47 AM <lseactuary> [12:46] <lseactuary> no one wil be interested in my profile
6:48 AM <moriarty> lseactuary, because you gave up trying
6:48 AM <lseactuary> no man
6:48 AM <moriarty> persistence is key to success
6:48 AM <lseactuary> every banker i spoke to said
6:48 AM <lseactuary> your in tech stay there
6:48 AM <lseactuary> banking want finance exp
6:48 AM <lseactuary> internships etc
6:48 AM <moriarty> the key is to spin your story to make it relevant
6:48 AM <lseactuary> no one will take me as a full time analyst
6:48 AM <lseactuary> without banking exp
6:48 AM <lseactuary> they hire from their internships
6:48 AM <moriarty> look, i'd just say one thing if nothing else makes sense
6:48 AM <moriarty> getting a job is like getting a chick
6:48 AM <moriarty> there's no difference
6:49 AM <moriarty> if you know how to get any chick you want, getting a job should be a piece of cake
6:49 AM <moriarty> how do you get a chick?
6:49 AM <moriarty> do you tell her the truth?
6:49 AM <moriarty> or do you spin?
6:49 AM <moriarty> same thing
6:49 AM <lseactuary> my truth is good enough
6:49 AM <lseactuary> :P
6:49 AM <moriarty> lol well if you wanna be a virgin
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6:49 AM <lseactuary> thing is im not
6:49 AM <lseactuary> i just dont need to lie
6:49 AM <moriarty> lol it's not lying
6:49 AM <moriarty> it's putting your best foot forward
6:49 AM <lseactuary> ye im just saying
6:49 AM <lseactuary> i rarely need to spin
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6:50 AM <lseactuary> as im good enough without spinning
6:50 AM <moriarty> i think you're too simple minded
6:50 AM <moriarty> the world is not black and white
6:50 AM <moriarty> it's not truth and lie
6:50 AM <moriarty> it's perspectives
6:51 AM <moriarty> your life can be seen in a million different ways from a million different people
6:51 AM <moriarty> now what would a finance person care about your life
6:51 AM <moriarty> make it relevant to him
6:51 AM <moriarty> don't tell him about tech BS
6:51 AM <lseactuary> well i know more about tech valuation
6:51 AM <lseactuary> then he ever will
6:51 AM <lseactuary> all the metrics etc
6:51 AM <moriarty> lol so make it relevant
6:51 AM ⇐ hammond quit (proscan@unaffiliated/portrait) Ping timeout: 256 seconds
6:51 AM <lseactuary> i would actually know what they mean
6:51 AM <moriarty> exactly, that's what i mean by spin
6:51 AM <lseactuary> vs them thinking a  promoted trend and tweet is the same thing XD
6:51 AM <lseactuary> ye i do
6:51 AM <lseactuary> its not spin
6:52 AM <lseactuary> this is the truth
6:52 AM <moriarty> lol i'm not the one giving you the job
6:52 AM <moriarty> you don't have to tell me this
6:52 AM <lseactuary> ye im just saying
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6:53 AM <moriarty> lol i remember an assignment we were once given at university
6:53 AM <moriarty> we were told the limitations of the assignment
6:53 AM <moriarty> 1 A4 page of report
6:53 AM <moriarty> so the simple minded among us, myself included, handed in one A4 pag
6:53 AM <moriarty> page*
6:53 AM <moriarty> the smarter ones did the same, but they did away with the margin
6:53 AM <moriarty> they changed to font size 8
6:53 AM <moriarty> single spaced
6:53 AM <moriarty> no hanging sentences
6:53 AM <lseactuary> ye i did that :P
6:53 AM <moriarty> guess who got better marks?
6:54 AM <moriarty> exactly
6:54 AM <moriarty> is that cheating?
6:54 AM <moriarty> :)
6:54 AM <lseactuary> nope
6:54 AM <moriarty> lol same, that's what i mean by spinning
6:54 AM <lseactuary> im not against spinning
6:54 AM <lseactuary> i have much to offer
6:54 AM <lseactuary> but they dont see it
6:54 AM <lseactuary> or just get unnuerved
6:54 AM <lseactuary> so then screw them
6:54 AM <moriarty> because lots of people have lots to offer
6:54 AM <moriarty> :)
6:54 AM <lseactuary> not really
6:54 AM <moriarty> what you offer is not good enough
6:54 AM <moriarty> then you underestimate your competition
6:54 AM <moriarty> we are talking top salaries here
6:55 AM <moriarty> who do you think would apply for such positions?
6:55 AM <lseactuary> masters students
6:55 AM <lseactuary> which i cant do
6:55 AM <lseactuary> so then screw it
6:55 AM <moriarty> that's why i say, spin
6:55 AM <moriarty> make it relevant
6:55 AM <lseactuary> well my finance courses were masters level
6:55 AM <lseactuary> my uni is ranked highly
6:55 AM <lseactuary> yet i never landed interviews
6:55 AM <lseactuary> so i got the signal
6:55 AM <lseactuary> sometimes pushing is one thing
6:56 AM <lseactuary> being realistic is another
6:56 AM <moriarty> heh think about what i said about getting chicks
6:56 AM <moriarty> you should up your game with chicks
6:56 AM <moriarty> and then apply what you've learnt to jobs
6:56 AM <lseactuary> well wanting Candice is one thing
6:56 AM <lseactuary> geting Candice is another
6:56 AM <moriarty> exactly
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6:56 AM <moriarty> if you can get Candice, you will know what i mean about jobs and how they're the same
6:56 AM <lseactuary> i need to find her first XD
6:56 AM <moriarty> lol lots of them in London
6:57 AM <lseactuary> well there is motive to get Candice
6:57 AM <rapewatch> But what if one does not fancy British women? :P
6:57 AM <lseactuary> there is no motive to get a shitter job for 5k more
6:57 AM <moriarty> heh another statement that i loved from a mate
6:57 AM <moriarty> if you're unhappy at your workplace, and are still there
6:58 AM <moriarty> you have no one to blame but yourself
6:58 AM <lseactuary> im not unhapy
6:58 AM <lseactuary> i just want more stuff
6:58 AM <lseactuary> which she will give me if i ask
6:58 AM <moriarty> as do we all :)
6:58 AM <moriarty> but it's no different from those with plain janes as girlfriends
6:58 AM <lseactuary> but i need to now what to ask for
6:58 AM <moriarty> they want a prettier girlfriend
6:59 AM <moriarty> but they are scared the prettier girlfriend would end up shittier
6:59 AM <moriarty> and they end up having to spend more to maintain those prettier girlfriends
6:59 AM <moriarty> well, good
6:59 AM <moriarty> find out what is it you want, and ask :D
7:00 AM <lseactuary> ye thats what im trying to do XD
7:00 AM <lseactuary> then you go into a whole get into banking debate lol
7:00 AM <moriarty> lol
7:00 AM <moriarty> just opening the possibility of a whole new world
7:00 AM <lseactuary> ye that world exploaded
7:00 AM <lseactuary> a long time ago XD
7:00 AM <moriarty> heh no girl likes a loser
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7:00 AM <moriarty> same thing, no interviewer likes a loser :)
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7:01 AM <moriarty> don't tell them how hard you've tried and didn't get any
7:01 AM <lseactuary> tell that to the girls i bed ;)
7:01 AM <moriarty> heh
7:01 AM <lseactuary> well ofc i dont tell them
7:01 AM <lseactuary> i just tell you
7:01 AM <moriarty> good, don't give them a whiff of your desperation
7:01 AM <moriarty> act like you've got it made
7:01 AM <lseactuary> i do
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7:01 AM <lseactuary> hence im thinking the best way forward with this manager
7:02 AM <moriarty> i've worked in shitty places before
7:02 AM <moriarty> all i can say is, get out :)
7:02 AM <lseactuary> as my contract ends in feb
7:02 AM <lseactuary> need to know if they are keeping me
7:02 AM <lseactuary> in writing
7:02 AM <moriarty> lol the place i was temporarily working at, i asked for a doubling raise, they thought it was too much
7:02 AM <moriarty> i ended up getting in at the place i was waiting for, they gave me what i wanted without any questions
7:03 AM <moriarty> i didn't even have to state what i want
7:03 AM <moriarty> their initial offer matched what i asked for a raise from the previous company
7:03 AM <moriarty> it's the same with girls
7:03 AM <lseactuary> ye except i havent applied elsewhere lol
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7:03 AM <lseactuary> because idk where to apply
7:03 AM <moriarty> some girls overvalue themselves on the market
7:03 AM <lseactuary> other tech firms want more experience
7:03 AM <moriarty> others give you what you want without you having to ask
7:03 AM <moriarty> :)
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7:03 AM <lseactuary> morirarty - ye very true that
7:04 AM <moriarty> the key is to see through all the bullshit
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7:04 AM <moriarty> it's the same as girls
7:04 AM <lseactuary> worst is my manager is a girl XD
7:04 AM <moriarty> "i'm busy" means "go away, your desperation makes me wanna puke"
7:04 AM <moriarty> "give me your number" means "creep, try harder next time"
7:04 AM <lseactuary> ive never been told im bust
7:04 AM <lseactuary> *busy
7:04 AM <lseactuary> or give me your number
7:04 AM <moriarty> what i'm saying is "more experience" is a bullshit answer
7:05 AM <lseactuary> oh no
7:05 AM <moriarty> oh yes
7:05 AM <lseactuary> on their job description
7:05 AM <lseactuary> it says min 1 year exp
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7:05 AM <moriarty> lol you think job descriptions are not bullshit?
7:05 AM <lseactuary> point
7:05 AM <moriarty> what do you think girls put on their boyfriend descriptions?
7:05 AM <lseactuary> i still apply
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7:05 AM <moriarty> "i want a rich boy, a handsome boy, not one that looks like you"
7:05 AM <lseactuary> lol
7:05 AM <lseactuary> amen
7:05 AM <moriarty> yet ugly boys still get them
7:05 AM <moriarty> why?
7:05 AM <moriarty> :)
7:05 AM <lseactuary> :P
7:05 AM <moriarty> they've got the confidence, and they counter those girls
7:05 AM <lseactuary> hmm
7:05 AM <moriarty> same with jobs
7:05 AM <lseactuary> help me with my CV :P
7:06 AM <moriarty> lol up your game with girls, trust me it will help with your job :)
7:06 AM <moriarty> enjoy your current job, up your game, apply for new jobs
7:06 AM <lseactuary> well i bed  girls weekly
7:06 AM <lseactuary> but with jobs im crappy
7:06 AM <lseactuary> also i was kinda tired applying
7:06 AM <lseactuary> therefore took this one
7:06 AM <lseactuary> maybe time to start looking again
7:07 AM <lseactuary> can you see my CV sometime
7:07 AM <moriarty> lol companies are all about "i'm the shit, so i want someone so incredibly smart/great/wonderful that it makes me look like a fucking pimp because i'm their boss"
7:07 AM <moriarty> that's the essence of job descriptions
7:07 AM <lseactuary> lol
7:07 AM <moriarty> i'm serious
7:07 AM <lseactuary> ye hence the lol
7:07 AM <moriarty> so the counter to that is
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7:07 AM <moriarty> "i'm the shit, girl, what have you got to offer? you're only going to get uglier with time"
7:08 AM <moriarty> same with companies
7:08 AM <moriarty> are you offering me enough for what you're asking, future boss?
7:08 AM <lseactuary> :P
7:08 AM <moriarty> of course some girls overvalue themselves just as some companies do
7:08 AM <lseactuary> hmm you think i should tell my manager
7:08 AM <moriarty> lol why bother
7:08 AM <lseactuary> to give me a new contract, up salary as im doing 10x more than my job role
7:09 AM <moriarty> would you tell an ugly girl she's asking too much and she should learn to be more realistic with her looks or lack thereof?
7:09 AM <moriarty> :)
7:09 AM <lseactuary> then?
7:09 AM <moriarty> do the classic
7:09 AM <moriarty> "i'm gay"
7:09 AM <moriarty> :)
7:09 AM <lseactuary> loool
7:09 AM <moriarty> tell your boss "it's not you it's me"
7:09 AM <moriarty> lol
7:09 AM <lseactuary> its me what?
7:09 AM <lseactuary> i dont get it
7:10 AM <lseactuary> say this firm is amazing but i dont think im fitting into this team very well
7:10 AM <lseactuary> ?
7:10 AM <moriarty> lol no
7:10 AM <lseactuary> about to say...
7:10 AM <lseactuary> that would be suicide
7:10 AM <moriarty> what i mean is, 1) know what you want, 2) read through the bullshit facade
7:10 AM <moriarty> 3) go for what you want
7:10 AM <lseactuary> i want to go to SF or NYC
7:10 AM <lseactuary> work in business ops or similar
7:10 AM <moriarty> lol you're not practical, my friend
7:10 AM <lseactuary> something more strategic
7:11 AM <lseactuary> ?
7:11 AM <lseactuary> you said go for what you want
7:11 AM <moriarty> haha
7:11 AM <lseactuary> :P
7:11 AM <lseactuary> i like american chicks
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7:11 AM <lseactuary> or they send me to sweden but then i dont know t he language lol
7:13 AM <lseactuary> so then what do i say to her?
7:13 AM <moriarty> lol just fuck about :) enjoy the world for another five or ten years
7:13 AM <lseactuary> gimme a contract in wriitng it you wanna keep me
7:13 AM <lseactuary> that will cut the BS
7:13 AM <moriarty> then when you're more mature, maybe it's time for you to settle down and get a job
7:13 AM <moriarty> :)
7:13 AM <lseactuary> lol
7:13 AM <lseactuary> well i rather do that on company expense :O
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7:14 AM <moriarty> lol you don't even know what you want
7:14 AM <moriarty> make all the mistakes you can
7:14 AM <moriarty> explore the world
7:14 AM <moriarty> when you're done with that, you will know what you want
7:14 AM <lseactuary> ye hence the more projects i get
7:14 AM <lseactuary> the more i learn what i like/dont
7:14 AM <lseactuary> so i agree with her approach
7:14 AM <moriarty> a company isn't a place for you to learn what you like/don't
7:14 AM <moriarty> they are there to make money
7:15 AM <moriarty> a group of girls aren't there for you to learn which one you would like/don't like
7:15 AM <moriarty> they are there to get a boyfriend :P
7:15 AM <lseactuary> lol
7:15 AM <lseactuary> or
7:15 AM <lseactuary> if they are all sluts
7:15 AM <lseactuary> you can do all of them
7:15 AM <lseactuary> then pick
7:15 AM <lseactuary> :
7:15 AM <moriarty> sigh
7:15 AM <lseactuary> :)
7:15 AM <moriarty> le sigh
7:15 AM <rapewatch> kek
7:17 AM <lseactuary> moriarty - what do you seriously suggest i do?
7:17 AM <lseactuary> its like december now banking hiring is dying
7:17 AM <lseactuary> as is consulting
7:17 AM <lseactuary> tech want more experience but am trying there
7:17 AM <moriarty> 1) know what you want
7:17 AM <moriarty> 2) read past facades and know what drives people and systems
7:18 AM <moriarty> 3) be relentless in pursuing what you want
7:18 AM <lseactuary> how do i find (1)
7:18 AM <moriarty> applies to girls as well as jobs
7:18 AM <moriarty> when a girl tells you something, you can either 1) believe her, or 2) read past that to see what she's actually trying to say
7:18 AM <moriarty> most of the time she's saying "buzz off creep"
7:18 AM <buZz> WHAT
7:18 AM <moriarty> lol
7:18 AM <lseactuary> lol
7:19 AM — buZz pushes moriarty into the waterhole
7:19 AM <moriarty> lseactuary, once you know this, you know who to make your role models
7:19 AM <moriarty> i.e. don't make virgins your role models
7:19 AM <moriarty> people who don't understand girls usually don't get very far in the working world
7:20 AM <buZz> richard branson?
7:20 AM <moriarty> haha
7:20 AM <lseactuary> lol
7:20 AM <buZz> wtf are you guys talking about :P
7:20 AM <moriarty> lseactuary, effort
7:20 AM <mobuto> richard branson is a virgin!?  jesus
7:20 AM <moriarty> how i figured out what i want was quite a laborious effort
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7:21 AM <moriarty> i started out by cancelling out all the shit i don't want, examining all that i want
7:21 AM <moriarty> then i went meta on myself and re-examine my criteria for what i want in life
7:21 AM <moriarty> then scratched everything, and redo
7:21 AM <mobuto> very sherlock-holmsian of you, moriarty
7:21 AM <moriarty> a few thousand iterations, and you will figure out what you want
7:21 AM <moriarty> ask lots of questions to lots of people with experience in various fields
7:21 AM <moriarty> read past the bullshit
7:21 AM <moriarty> figure out yourself and other people
7:21 AM <moriarty> then make your own choices
7:22 AM <moriarty> key thing is to figure out what makes you happy
7:22 AM <moriarty> it's the same with what you want in a girl
7:22 AM <moriarty> you -think- you know what you want
7:22 AM <moriarty> but then if you examine your historical record of past relationships
7:22 AM <moriarty> you will find that the criteria of what you want in a girl seldom gets fulfilled in your past relationships
7:22 AM <lseactuary> true
7:22 AM <moriarty> you fell for them for some silly reason usually
7:22 AM <moriarty> or "silly"
7:22 AM <moriarty> then once you figure out, hey, that's what i -really- want
7:22 AM <moriarty> when you come to an acceptance of those "silly" reasons
7:23 AM <moriarty> only then will you know what makes you happy
7:23 AM <moriarty> and stop BS-ing yourself
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7:24 AM <moriarty> so the only way to enlightenment is to have lots of relationships
7:24 AM <moriarty> or lots of experiences that mimic job-like situations
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7:24 AM <moriarty> try this out, try that out, then you can have some grounding of what you like, and where you excel
7:24 AM  → hammond joined
7:25 AM <moriarty> talk to lots of people from all sorts of backgrounds, ask sincere but deep questions into their fields, read up on books in their fields
7:25 AM <moriarty> it's a long process :)
7:25 AM <lseactuary> ok
7:25 AM <moriarty> yeah but you know you're there when you can hold a decent conversation with anyone from any field
7:26 AM <moriarty> only then you know you have an idea of what every field is about, and you know truly what you like/don't like when you start bottoms up, by cancelling everything you dislike, and top down, by selecting umbrella of fields that you might be into
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7:27 AM <moriarty> i.e. don't go on presuppositions or hearsays of what the field is about
7:27 AM <moriarty> find out for yourself
7:27 AM <moriarty> if people tell you prostitutes are bad, find out for yourself :) perform your own experiments
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7:27 AM <moriarty> never trust anything
7:28 AM <moriarty> five years ought to be enough for such experimentations :)
7:28 AM <moriarty> preparing for job interviews is another way
7:29 AM <moriarty> the most telling questions are: "how did you become interested in <x field>"
7:29 AM <moriarty> that's where you have to make up a story about how you always knew since young you liked that field, and you read books on it, did shit related to it, so you have to make your story believable, so read up those books, do actual shit related to that field
7:29 AM ⇐ kanzure quit (~kanzure@131.252.130.248) Ping timeout: 255 seconds
7:30 AM <moriarty> heh when i applied across five different industries, that's what i did, but then i was fortunate enough to have some of those experiences already, and those that i didn't, i just went out and get them
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7:31 AM <moriarty> and i anticipated technical questions from all those fields, wrote them down, and then figured out how to approach them, questions that are general enough such that i can answer variants thereof
7:31 AM <moriarty> most jobs are similar, if you know some transcendental concepts, you can apply them to pretty much anywhere
7:31 AM <moriarty> mathematics or statistics is one of them
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7:32 AM <lseactuary> ic
7:32 AM <moriarty> the rest can be filled in via learning new software, paradigms to handle them
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7:35 AM <moriarty> at the end what matters is consistency, establishing objectives at the start of a project, communication to keep on track, etc
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7:35 AM <moriarty> these golden rules apply across all fields, and the rest is just a matter of filling in the gaps
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7:36 AM <moriarty> the basic rules of science, controls, blinds testing, induction, are called in various guises, in statistics they call them cross-validation, avoiding overfits, etc
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7:37 AM <lseactuary> true
7:37 AM <moriarty> life is a bit like being a management consultant :)
7:38 AM <moriarty> you learn everything you can about that industry, and then you apply very consistent paradigms and methodologies to those industries, and derive a solution to their problems
7:38 AM <moriarty> that's why the technical bits are considered easy, it's the soft skills that are difficult
7:38 AM <moriarty> "how do i deal with moving goalposts?"
7:38 AM <moriarty> "what if i have a difficult customer"
7:38 AM <moriarty> etc
7:39 AM <moriarty> that's where knowing yourself is the first step to that :)
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7:39 AM <moriarty> if you don't know what you want, how can you possibly know what drives other people?
7:40 AM <moriarty> know yourself, and you will gain insight into what makes others tick
7:40 AM <moriarty> hehe
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7:44 AM <moriarty> at the end i've observed only two kinds of people who succeed
7:45 AM <moriarty> the ones who became doctors, and the ones who have a keen understanding of people, and are humble/gets along well with everyone
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7:45 AM <moriarty> i think the doctors have the luxury of being a nerd because they're that much in demand so they can have whatever quirky personality :)
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7:46 AM <moriarty> but of my mates who eventually rose to the top, they were bright, but not unusually bright, but they all had one thing in common, they weren't the most popular kids around, they were the people in the background, and people who would agree with everything you ask of them
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7:47 AM <moriarty> so good luck :)
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7:50 AM <lseactuary> :P
7:50 AM <lseactuary> meeting time for m
7:50 AM <lseactuary> me
7:51 AM <lseactuary> ttyl :)
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7:53 AM <deego> moriarty: man, that was a real good rant in the scrollback. well said
7:54 AM  → askmike and kanzure_ joined  ⇐ kanzure and evian11_____ quit  ↔ scorpio18 and akstunt600 nipped out
7:59 AM <moriarty> deego, heh
8:00 AM  → stealthii, evian11_____, The20YearIRCloud, TIYSShow, Quanttek, phinxy, ale__, Erock23, emdes (was emdess), McKie and ivanleung joined  ⇐ kanzure (was kanzure_), numismatics, hammond, kzard and kingscrown quit  ↔ snurkabill popped in  ↔ scorpio18, psychouroboros, mquandalle, Knunez, peacefultom, Dunum, coiner, TwoKoolFourSkewl, HaltingState, eJavaBot, Skirmant (was tnamrikS), reader31___, akstunt600 and adlai nipped out
9:05 AM <Plebington_> oh hey moriarty