Interesting Echo lesson, Edit out bits later

13:14	Holben	Oh hey I forgot DW was on tonight
13:14	Zanzibaarus	http://mibpaste.com/2tohsY
13:14	Zanzibaarus	What I just posted is a fledgling Foundation Tale from yesterday.
13:14	Zanzibaarus	For those who remember (or don't), I need feedback to fix it.
13:16	Zanzibaarus	Please help?
13:17	shash	i like it..
13:18		*** Itazu joined #site19
13:18	shash	but, why does he ask the "wtf did you do that for?" question?
13:18	EchoFourDelta	shash: Security clearance levels are exactly that, with the explicit exclusion of O5, equivalent to a Level 5 clearance, designating executive command.
13:18	madfigs	It's basically just the SCP in tale form, what are you intending to add with the story?
13:18	EchoFourDelta	Are you familiar with how information classification works?
13:19	shash	maybe not as well as i should :-\
13:19	EchoFourDelta	All right, here's a brief primer.
13:20		*** Magnus joined #site19
13:20	Silber	.w sphenoid
13:20	Nala	Silber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphenoid_bone (Sphenoid bone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) The sphenoid bone is an unpaired bone situated at the front middle of the skull in front of the temporal bone and basilar part of the occipital bone. The sphenoid ...
13:20	EchoFourDelta	Bear with me for a moment
13:20	EchoFourDelta	In our systems (with general equivalencies used throughout NATO) there are three levels of sensitivity - Classified, Secret, and Top Secret.
13:20	EchoFourDelta	Now...
13:21	EchoFourDelta	This is independent of everything else about an individual (not so with the Foundation, but again, bear with me)
13:21	Silber	Zanzibaarus: I'd use "approximately" instead of "about", or give an exact time.
13:21	EchoFourDelta	Now - this system allows for what is called compartmentalization
13:21	EchoFourDelta	You know as much as your job requires, and you're cleared to a commensurate level for the information you need
13:21	shash	right
13:22	EchoFourDelta	So, let's say in our system, we have a Private First Class (you're familiar with basic rank structure, I'll assume)
13:22	Silber	topsy of D-6590-101 show that SCP-149 had been directed through the Sphenoid sinuses, which caused them to tear themselves out through the eye sockets.
13:22	EchoFourDelta	Let's say this PFC works on a system that deals with radio encryption standards/.
13:23	EchoFourDelta	This is *highly* sensitive information, and he would require a similarly high-level clearance, yes?
13:23	shash	i guess
13:23	EchoFourDelta	A correct guess.
13:23	EchoFourDelta	Now...
13:23	Silber	I'd describe this process more precisely; maybe it's because I haven't read 149, but phrases like "were directed through" and "tear themselves out" seem vague
13:24	Silber	!scp-149
13:24	Nala	Silber: The Blood Flies (rating: +55, 15 revisions) - http://scp-wiki.net/scp-149
13:24	EchoFourDelta	Just because he deals with sensitive information in no way implies he needs to have excessive rank, or is trained in the administrative tasks and leadership techniques required for someone holding a higher rank and that leads dozens or hundreds of personnel
13:24	EchoFourDelta	He simply needs that to do his job, and the job itself doesn't require someone with the previously mentioned traits.
13:24	Silber	Zanzibaarus, I'll read  149 to get a better idea of what's happening
13:24		*** beta12 joined #site19
13:24	shash	so rank and clearance are not necessarily linked
13:25	EchoFourDelta	By the same token... let's say we have a first lieutenant who leads dozens of troops into battle, or who maintains a low-level information system.
13:25	Silber	They aren't linked at all, apparently.
13:25	EchoFourDelta	Neither of those tasks necessarily require access to sensitive, compartmentalized information.
13:25	EchoFourDelta	As such, he may not be cleared at that level, since he does not need it to perform his duties.
13:25	EchoFourDelta	Now, let's apply this to the fiction we write about.
13:25	shash	ok
13:26	EchoFourDelta	You have 5 levels, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.
13:26	shash	and these are clearance levels, right?
13:26	EchoFourDelta	Although it may seem counter-intuitive to conflate rank with security clearances in most cases (in which it is) it can be looked at in a logical manner in a few instances.
13:27	EchoFourDelta	Let's say... we have a person administrating a given SCP. SCP-XXX, doesn't matter what it is.
13:27	Silber	 Zanzibaarus, you there?
13:28		--- Roget is away (car ride)
13:28	EchoFourDelta	We'll call him a Level 3. A project or department lead equivalency. This person, to effectively administrate, may require general knowledge regarding that SCP, and other ancillary objects, information, or procedures that directly relate to it.
13:28	shash	right
13:28	EchoFourDelta	He may lead a number of personnel who hold level 2 and 1 clearances; each of these are specifically tied to a single SCP.
13:29	EchoFourDelta	Because they work on that - information control and security for those SCPs are all that are necessary for them to do their job
13:29	EchoFourDelta	And they need nothing more that could present security risks.
13:29	EchoFourDelta	Now, Level 3, being a general security clearance, are what are given to security personnel. Care to hazard a guess why?
13:30	shash	i'm... not sure
13:30	shash	because they need to have a good amount of information?
13:30	shash	but there may need to be something hidden from there if it's cross scp?
13:30	EchoFourDelta	In part.
13:30	Servbot	My left hands fingers hurt a lot
13:30	beta12	So they don't need clearance to get to an scp if something bad happens quickly? ((Sorry if I am intruding))
13:30	shash	not at all
13:30	EchoFourDelta	Because they may be required to respond to anything happening in the facility
13:31	shash	ok...
13:31	Silber	Which means knowledge of an entire set of procedures regarding various objects.
13:31	EchoFourDelta	If there's something they have to rush over to, there's no time to be wasted in ensuring they have adequate clearance to handle the security risks of infornation control that would otherwise exist
13:31	EchoFourDelta	And you can't be hampered by simply having no idea what you're dealing with
13:31	EchoFourDelta	Now...
13:31	EchoFourDelta	Level 4
13:31	Zanzibaarus	Sorry, food called me.
13:32	EchoFourDelta	I mentioned before that in most situations you see written about, this in conflated with someone who administrates a facility
13:32	shash	hmm
13:32	EchoFourDelta	This is someone who has to be apprised and understanding of everything that's going on in his facility
13:32	DreadLindwyrm	No time to be read in on a hazardous thing in his basement...
13:32	EchoFourDelta	He needs to have the simple capability to know the details.
13:33	shash	makes sense.. right
13:33	EchoFourDelta	This is why clearance and authority are often (but not always) commensurate in what you see being written about.
13:33	Silber	Zanzibaarus: I guess my issues are derived from the SCP, since it's also vague on why or how they'd go through the eye sockets
13:33		EchoFourDelta steps off his soap box.
13:33	shash	where to experimenters come in?
13:33	Silber	Have I been mistaken for using ranks like "Project Administrator" and "Assistant Researcher" and using clearance levels only as clearance levels?
13:33	EchoFourDelta	I hope that helps.
13:33	shash	*do
13:34	EchoFourDelta	Silber: Probably not.
13:34	DreadLindwyrm	shash.  Depends on the scp they're working on.
13:34	Zanzibaarus	Hmm.
13:34	Vehemency	So guys
13:34	EchoFourDelta	Because those are two perfectly acceptable ideas with good rationale behind them.
13:34	Vehemency	New Star Trek may be on the horizon
13:34	DreadLindwyrm	Normally you just need to know about your thing, and possibly anything in the blast radius.
13:34	madfigs	a new TV show or a new movie?
13:35	shash	would experimenters working on a particular scp have the same security clearance of 3 as the admins? or will it be lower, or higher?
13:35	Silber	I just organize into site director, lead researcher, project lead, site researchers, field researchers, assistant researchers, and so on
13:35	Vehemency	New TV show
13:35	shash	higher makes no sense, so i guess 3 or lower
13:35	EchoFourDelta	And each of those people might have wildly varying clearance levels
13:35	EchoFourDelta	Depending on what they need to know and how they go about it
13:35	Zanzibaarus	I have changed "About" to "Approximately" in accordance to being notified.
13:35	madfigs	http://www.scp-wiki.net/security-clearance-levels might help
13:35	Nala	madfigs: Security Clearance Levels [Guide] (rating: +2, 20 revisions, 16 comments) - tags: guide
13:35	EchoFourDelta	Even within the same "category"
13:36	Zanzibaarus	Repasting.
13:36	EchoFourDelta	madfigs: That's... a little more obfuscating than the explanation I laid out
13:36	Silber	Right. An Assistant Researcher could be tasked with supervising a volatile cognitohazard,
13:36	Silber	which would require a high clearance and specialized training
13:36	Zanzibaarus	http://mibpaste.com/kjnIDj
13:37	Zanzibaarus	This one spaced out suprisingly better than the last.
13:37	EchoFourDelta	So that Junior Researcher that requires extremely classified, highly sensitive information might require a Level 3, or 4, or whatever clearance.
13:37	Silber	And a lead researcher could supervise a handful of harmless, mundane Safes
13:37	EchoFourDelta	Or the project lead dealing with something exceedingly mundane might require a Level 2, or something.
13:37	Silber	and really only be Level 2 Clearance
13:37		*** choobakka quit (Quit: choobakka)
13:37	EchoFourDelta	Exactly.
13:37	Silber	That's how I've been writing the Foundation.
13:38	EchoFourDelta	Authority is granted according to responsibility - need to know governs clearance and information and operational security standards.
13:38		EchoFourDelta reclines back in his chair.
13:38		--- Roget is back
13:39	Zanzibaarus	Hello Roget.
13:39	Roget	Hello new person
13:39		*** HugoLuman joined #site19
13:39	shash	so, my story doesn't require the level 4 clearance line in the procedures section; but the one in the middle of the description is rightly placed.. am i right?
13:39	VAE	Blah , this is exactly the sort of stuff that should be in a guide somewhere
13:39		Zanzibaarus facepalm
13:39	Deseis	@Silber: In regards to the Assistant Researcher... that's Level 2, right?
13:39	shash	snce it deals with site-wide security breach potential
13:39	HugoLuman	So, do we already have a photo album that kills whoever's picture is put into it?
13:40	VAE	why?
13:40	Silber	VAE, there's a guide on clearances but I haven't read it, so you raise a valid point
13:40	Zanzibaarus	I don't think so, HugoLuman
13:40	Zanzibaarus	Might want to search it up on the wiki before doing one.
13:40	EchoFourDelta	Shash
13:40	EchoFourDelta	Now
13:40	VAE	The guide that exists doesn't quite explain it so well as Echo does
13:40	EchoFourDelta	Let's build on this.
13:41	EchoFourDelta	It's a specific threat, right?
13:41	VAE	also, what does the assistant researcher do?
13:41	EchoFourDelta	That potentialy everyone on the site might have to deal with?
13:41	VAE	I mean, level 1 or 2 might either be sensible
13:41	shash	right
13:41	EchoFourDelta	If EVERYONE needs to know about this, then all applicable personnel would have Level-2/SCP-XXX
13:41	EchoFourDelta	And they'd be read into that SCP and the information behind it
13:41	shash	which is why the site overseer should be the one to allow/reject the experiment
13:42	shash	it's not knowledge, it's permission
13:42	EchoFourDelta	Well, the guy in charge has more important things to worry about
13:42		*** Nusquam joined #site19
13:42		+++ ChanServ has given op to Nusquam
13:42	Silber	Deseis: I'd call it Level 3 or 4, due to volatile cognotohazardous material. It depends on the object, but that's literally information that's deadly in the wrong hands
13:42	EchoFourDelta	This is why competent individuals are appointed BELOW them to carry out the mundanities
13:43	HugoLuman	So, would it be better as an anamolous item or an SCP?
13:43	EchoFourDelta	... hmmm.
13:43	EchoFourDelta	I'm going to draw up a small-unit leadership doctrine seminar :|
13:44	Zanzibaarus	A photo album that causes an event in which a picture of a person being inside of the album causes the person in the picture to die?
13:44	Deseis	Crap, okay. =( I was trying to ride a 'Tale' that involved a Assistant Researcher, and... stuff.
13:44	EchoFourDelta	And force you all to attend :|
13:44	Deseis	write*
13:44	Deseis	Wow, ride totally does not mean write WHATSOEVER. DX
13:44	Silber	Echo: So rank is more about what you're good at (administration versus fieldwork, say) than raw competency, right?
13:44	shash	i'd attend
13:44	EchoFourDelta	At gunpoint :|

EchoFourDelta	Silber: Rank is simply the bestowing of authority to handle the level of responsibility given within the bounds of an individuals capability and proficiency
13:45	Zanzibaarus	Put out a rough draft of your idea, or if it's already out there, I'd post it here.
13:45	EchoFourDelta	Silber: I'll elaborate
13:45	shash	the reason for my confusion is, say somewhere else in the site is another Keter class SCP test. If he gets hold of SCP-XXXX, that's gonna be bad. The SCP-XXXX overseer may not be in the loop for the test, because he's the XXXX overseer
13:45	Gustav	hey hey
13:45	Silber	Zanzibaarus: I think the difference between anomalous objects and SCPs is that the latter can carry an entire article
13:45	Deseis	Hey Gustav
13:46	shash	won't that mean the test should be authorized by someone at the site level?
13:46	EchoFourDelta	Silber: Let's say... we have that same Private First Class I mentioned earlier.
13:46	Vehemency	EchoFourDelta: hey u come work in my fictional mercenary organization
13:46	Silber	Right
13:46	Gustav	this fellow seems to like SCP  http://600v.deviantart.com/art/SCP-Blue-Hall-326009556
13:47	Gustav	scp-2626
13:47	Nala	Gustav: [Page Not Found] - http://scp-wiki.net/scp-2626
13:47	that_tall_fellow	...huh
13:47	that_tall_fellow	normally, anything SCP-related on dA sucks five asses
13:47	EchoFourDelta	Now, as he works in his field, he'll be expected to be entrusted with greater responsibility with regards to what he works on in addition to the administration, training, and wellbeing of less senior personnel
13:47	that_tall_fellow	but that's pretty cool
13:47	Zanzibaarus	HugoLuman's idea may be an SCP, but I don't know.
13:47	EchoFourDelta	As newbies come in, they require people to guide them, yes?
13:47	Silber	Gustav: the list goes up to 1999
13:47	Deseis	Yep, Echo.
13:47	Silber	Certainly
13:47	EchoFourDelta	Now, this private first class has to have two things:
13:48	EchoFourDelta	A differentiation between all the others who are NOW becoming PFCs
13:48	EchoFourDelta	AND
13:48	EchoFourDelta	He has to have the authority to go along with the responsibility of leading them
13:48	EchoFourDelta	So he's promoted
13:49		*** Beam quit (Ping timeout)
13:49	EchoFourDelta	Making room for his now-vacant slot, differentiating him from lower-ranking personnel, and also giving him greater authroity to deal with the commensurately greater tasks he'll be assigned
13:49	Servbot	Seven asses
13:49	EchoFourDelta	Because if you shift a ton of responsibility onto someone with no authority to deal with it, what happens?
13:49	Magnus	What did I just walk in to?
13:49	EchoFourDelta	Nothing gets done
13:49		*** Zanzibaarus quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
13:49	EchoFourDelta	Silber: Make sense?
13:50	VAE	Right .. like if you ordered someone who isn't an op to maintain the chat sensible
13:50	EchoFourDelta	Exactly
13:50	EchoFourDelta	Now...
13:50	EchoFourDelta	Let's take... a company commander
13:50	EchoFourDelta	He has hundreds of infantry at his disposal, and leaders under him
13:50		*** Antagonist quit (Connection reset by peer)
13:50	Silber	Echo: With you so far
13:51	EchoFourDelta	CAN he micromanage a Lance Corporal in second platoon, first squad, third fire team's trainig nd development?
13:51	EchoFourDelta	Yes, of course
13:51	HugoLuman	Is there a format for personnel profiles?
13:51		*** Antagonist joined #site19
13:51	VAE	He can, but he should not, normally
13:51	EchoFourDelta	He's the company commander,with all the authority a rank of captain entails
13:51	EchoFourDelta	BUT
13:51	EchoFourDelta	He has leaders under him to parcel out and delegate responsibility and authority to handle that for him
13:51	EchoFourDelta	So that he can maintain focus on the big picture
13:51	Holben	HugoLorman: "If you've created at least three SCPs, please take the time to create an author page and take credit for your work. Download the author page template, create and tweak as you desire, and add yourself to the list below alphabetically. "
13:52	Holben	*luman
13:52	Holben	From http://www.scp-wiki.net/members-pages
13:52	Nala	Holben: Members' Pages [Other/Unknown] (rating: +1, 355 revisions, 22 comments) - tags: hub
13:52	EchoFourDelta	He says do X, and the people under him ensure these orders are carried out within the rules, guidelines, and resources mandated and available
13:52	Holben	Author page template is here: http://www.scp-wiki.net/local--files/members-pages/Author%20Page%20Template.rtf
13:52		*** Gustav quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427])
13:52	that_tall_fellow	so my former geography professor might end up successfully getting the president of the united states to have a chat with his class
13:52	Silber	So you're saying that the key to an effective chain of command is judicious delegation.
13:52	EchoFourDelta	They're trusted to be equally competent, which is why it's important to have personnel at every level who can function in a fluid, dynamic environment, and who can take initiative
13:53	EchoFourDelta	This is important not only in military settings, but in just about every aspect of a functioning system
13:53	Silber	Of course.
13:53	HugoLuman	I mean, like a profile page for a non-avatar character. Had an idea for a joke one.
13:53	VAE	ehh, don't think that gonna fly
13:54	Silber	HugoLuman: maybe as a tale
13:54		*** Itazu quit (Ping timeout)
13:54	VAE	and to be honest, if you have yet to write a non-negatively rated regular article.. I'd wait with things like this for when you grow up to the task
13:54	Joreth	scp
13:54	VAE	.au HugoLuman
13:54	Nala	VAE: HugoLuman has written 1 article and 0 tales with -17 net upvotes (average -17.00) and 14 revisions, including: SCP-518 (-17)
13:54	Joreth	.sea scp
13:54	Nala	Joreth: SCP-1234-J (An SCP), SCPoems, SCP-040-1, SCPokemon, SCP-1173-1, plus 85 more.
13:54	EchoFourDelta	Silber: Additionally, this model goes up and down the "chain of command"
13:54	Silber	!scp-518
13:54	Nala	Silber: Infinite Nuke (rating: -17, 14 revisions) - http://scp-wiki.net/scp-518
13:54		*** Wogglebug joined #site19
13:55	Silber	I'm listening
13:55	EchoFourDelta	Whether the order is given by a platoon commander, or a squad leader, or a regimental commander, it's trusted to the people below them to not have to be micromanaged
13:55	Joreth	the main page has a rating
13:55	EchoFourDelta	The platoon commander says "We're going to the firing range tomorrow"
13:55	EchoFourDelta	He doesn't go through and ensure every step is followed, because he doesn't have time for that
13:56	EchoFourDelta	The squad leaders make sure their fire team leaders carry this out, and each reports up
13:56	EchoFourDelta	If there's a problem, it gets passed directly up and can be addressed at the next highest level, ensuring a rapid response
13:56	HugoLuman	SCP-518 will probably be voted to deletion soon. I'll probably revise it and try posting it again when I have more practice under my belt.
13:56	EchoFourDelta	So that it doesn't get mired in bureaucracy
13:56	EchoFourDelta	Now...
13:56		*** CHolt joined #site19
13:57	EchoFourDelta	If every little thing that was done by anyone had to be reported to the company commander
13:57	EchoFourDelta	How much longer would a simple task take?
13:57	EchoFourDelta	It'd get stretched out by magnitudes
13:57	shash	right
13:57	EchoFourDelta	Rather than be mired in this, the authority to make executive decisions within limits is handed down and delegated to the lowest levels possible
13:58		*** CHolt left #site19
13:58	EchoFourDelta	This keeps the decision-making process lightweight and high speed, provided it's implemented by competent, trustworthy individuals
13:59		*** that_tall_fellow quit (Quit: I got ants in my butt, and I needs to strut.)
EchoFourDelta	Threats on the scale that our fiction describes could not wait days, hours, and weeks for an idea to meet death by committe
14:00	EchoFourDelta	*committee
14:00   EchoFourDelta	DreadLindwyrm: In a manner of speaking.
that_tall_fellow	...huh
13:47	that_tall_fellow	normally, anything SCP-related on dA sucks five asses
13:47	EchoFourDelta	Now, as he works in his field, he'll be expected to be entrusted with greater responsibility with regards to what he works on in addition to the administration, training, and wellbeing of less senior personnel
13:47	that_tall_fellow	but that's pretty cool
13:47	Zanzibaarus	HugoLuman's idea may be an SCP, but I don't know.
13:47	EchoFourDelta	As newbies come in, they require people to guide them, yes?
13:47	Silber	Gustav: the list goes up to 1999
13:47	Deseis	Yep, Echo.
13:47	Silber	Certainly
13:47	EchoFourDelta	Now, this private first class has to have two things:
13:48	EchoFourDelta	A differentiation between all the others who are NOW becoming PFCs
13:48	EchoFourDelta	AND
13:48	EchoFourDelta	He has to have the authority to go along with the responsibility of leading them
13:48	EchoFourDelta	So he's promoted
13:49		*** Beam quit (Ping timeout)
13:49	EchoFourDelta	Making room for his now-vacant slot, differentiating him from lower-ranking personnel, and also giving him greater authroity to deal with the commensurately greater tasks he'll be assigned
13:49	Servbot	Seven asses
13:49	EchoFourDelta	Because if you shift a ton of responsibility onto someone with no authority to deal with it, what happens?
13:49	Magnus	What did I just walk in to?
13:49	EchoFourDelta	Nothing gets done
13:49		*** Zanzibaarus quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
13:49	EchoFourDelta	Silber: Make sense?
13:50	VAE	Right .. like if you ordered someone who isn't an op to maintain the chat sensible
13:50	EchoFourDelta	Exactly
13:50	EchoFourDelta	Now...
13:50	EchoFourDelta	Let's take... a company commander
13:50	EchoFourDelta	He has hundreds of infantry at his disposal, and leaders under him
13:50		*** Antagonist quit (Connection reset by peer)
13:50	Silber	Echo: With you so far
13:51	EchoFourDelta	CAN he micromanage a Lance Corporal in second platoon, first squad, third fire team's trainig nd development?
13:51	EchoFourDelta	Yes, of course
13:51	HugoLuman	Is there a format for personnel profiles?
13:51		*** Antagonist joined #site19
13:51	VAE	He can, but he should not, normally
13:51	EchoFourDelta	He's the company commander,with all the authority a rank of captain entails
13:51	EchoFourDelta	BUT
13:51	EchoFourDelta	He has leaders under him to parcel out and delegate responsibility and authority to handle that for him
13:51	EchoFourDelta	So that he can maintain focus on the big picture
13:51	Holben	HugoLorman: "If you've created at least three SCPs, please take the time to create an author page and take credit for your work. Download the author page template, create and tweak as you desire, and add yourself to the list below alphabetically. "
13:52	Holben	*luman
13:52	Holben	From http://www.scp-wiki.net/members-pages
13:52	Nala	Holben: Members' Pages [Other/Unknown] (rating: +1, 355 revisions, 22 comments) - tags: hub
13:52	EchoFourDelta	He says do X, and the people under him ensure these orders are carried out within the rules, guidelines, and resources mandated and available
13:52	Holben	Author page template is here: http://www.scp-wiki.net/local--files/members-pages/Author%20Page%20Template.rtf
13:52		*** Gustav quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427])
13:52	that_tall_fellow	so my former geography professor might end up successfully getting the president of the united states to have a chat with his class
13:52	Silber	So you're saying that the key to an effective chain of command is judicious delegation.
13:52	EchoFourDelta	They're trusted to be equally competent, which is why it's important to have personnel at every level who can function in a fluid, dynamic environment, and who can take initiative
13:53	EchoFourDelta	This is important not only in military settings, but in just about every aspect of a functioning system
13:53	Silber	Of course.
13:53	HugoLuman	I mean, like a profile page for a non-avatar character. Had an idea for a joke one.
13:53	VAE	ehh, don't think that gonna fly
13:54	Silber	HugoLuman: maybe as a tale
13:54		*** Itazu quit (Ping timeout)
13:54	VAE	and to be honest, if you have yet to write a non-negatively rated regular article.. I'd wait with things like this for when you grow up to the task
13:54	Joreth	scp
13:54	VAE	.au HugoLuman
13:54	Nala	VAE: HugoLuman has written 1 article and 0 tales with -17 net upvotes (average -17.00) and 14 revisions, including: SCP-518 (-17)
13:54	Joreth	.sea scp
13:54	Nala	Joreth: SCP-1234-J (An SCP), SCPoems, SCP-040-1, SCPokemon, SCP-1173-1, plus 85 more.
13:54	EchoFourDelta	Silber: Additionally, this model goes up and down the "chain of command"
13:54	Silber	!scp-518
13:54	Nala	Silber: Infinite Nuke (rating: -17, 14 revisions) - http://scp-wiki.net/scp-518
13:54		*** Wogglebug joined #site19
13:55	Silber	I'm listening
13:55	EchoFourDelta	Whether the order is given by a platoon commander, or a squad leader, or a regimental commander, it's trusted to the people below them to not have to be micromanaged
13:55	Joreth	the main page has a rating
13:55	EchoFourDelta	The platoon commander says "We're going to the firing range tomorrow"
13:55	EchoFourDelta	He doesn't go through and ensure every step is followed, because he doesn't have time for that
13:56	EchoFourDelta	The squad leaders make sure their fire team leaders carry this out, and each reports up
13:56	EchoFourDelta	If there's a problem, it gets passed directly up and can be addressed at the next highest level, ensuring a rapid response
13:56	HugoLuman	SCP-518 will probably be voted to deletion soon. I'll probably revise it and try posting it again when I have more practice under my belt.
13:56	EchoFourDelta	So that it doesn't get mired in bureaucracy
13:56	EchoFourDelta	Now...
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13:57	EchoFourDelta	If every little thing that was done by anyone had to be reported to the company commander
13:57	EchoFourDelta	How much longer would a simple task take?
13:57	EchoFourDelta	It'd get stretched out by magnitudes
13:57	shash	right
13:57	EchoFourDelta	Rather than be mired in this, the authority to make executive decisions within limits is handed down and delegated to the lowest levels possible
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13:58	EchoFourDelta	This keeps the decision-making process lightweight and high speed, provided it's implemented by competent, trustworthy individuals
13:59		*** that_tall_fellow quit (Quit: I got ants in my butt, and I needs to strut.)
13:59	EchoFourDelta	This model in particular fits perfectly well with what we write about
14:00	DreadLindwyrm	Doesn't it go something like the colonel decides he wants a hill taken, his half birds work out which captains should go where, and the captains then decide _how_, passing this back up to make sure there's no clashes.  When it comes to it, the captains tell their lieutenants to run their platoons. through the broad plan
14:00	DreadLindwyrm	AAAARGH.  Wasn't finished...
14:00	EchoFourDelta	Threats on the scale that our fiction describes could not wait days, hours, and weeks for an idea to meet death by committe
14:00	EchoFourDelta	*committee
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14:00	EchoFourDelta	DreadLindwyrm: In a manner of speaking.
14:01	EchoFourDelta	Something that people interested in this topic might find a valuable resource would be the Five Paragraph Order.
14:01	EchoFourDelta	The "SMEAC" operations order.
14:01		Silber is interested in this topic
14:01	EchoFourDelta	It's not always five paragraphs, but rather five discrete sections.
14:01	EchoFourDelta	Situation
14:01	EchoFourDelta	Mission
14:01	EchoFourDelta	Execution
14:01	EchoFourDelta	Administration and logistics
14:02	EchoFourDelta	Command and signal
14:02	EchoFourDelta	SMEAC
14:02	Faminepulse	oh dear god when did they add this
14:02	Faminepulse	http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Hammerer
14:02	shash	.w five paragraphs order
14:02	Nala	shash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_paragraph_order (Five paragraph order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) The five paragraph order is an element of United States Army, United States Marine Corps and United States Navy Seabees of small unit tactics that specifies ...
14:02	EchoFourDelta	Now, at the broadest level, an order like this descibes who, what, when, where, and how... but most importantly the WHY of a proposed course of action
14:02	HugoLuman	Faminepulse SCP-40d?
14:02	EchoFourDelta	Let's taken a well-written plan
14:03	Faminepulse	wat
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14:03	EchoFourDelta	We'll further assume that everyone who knows this plan has the resources to accomplish it
14:03	EchoFourDelta	What happens if something goes wrong?
14:03	Silber	Faminepulse: Yeah, Stinth appointed himself hammerer after I made him... every position except bookkeeper
14:03	EchoFourDelta	It'snot detailed in the plan! Everything was for naught! Not so
14:03	Faminepulse	yeah i just make the mayor bookeep and all the other no combat things
14:03	EchoFourDelta	Because the commander's intent is detailed
14:04	EchoFourDelta	You know WHY you're doing what you're doing, and the details behind it
14:04	EchoFourDelta	This way, if plan A fucks up, you can improvise to achieve the end state you were shooting for in the first place
14:04	EchoFourDelta	And have the necessary information to actualize a Plan B, or whatever you come up with
14:05	EchoFourDelta	This is what I'm always arguing after in the containment procedures section
14:05	EchoFourDelta	Some people get it, some don't, but what we're describing with that section is a course of action
14:05	EchoFourDelta	Interesting information and intriguing reading can come from the WHY of what you include so much as the WHAT
14:05	EchoFourDelta
14:06	EchoFourDelta	If all that makes sense
14:06	Silber	No wonder people don't grok writing CPs, if they're approaching it from the wrong direction.
14:06	EchoFourDelta	Well, it's all up to the reader.
14:07	EchoFourDelta	I'm often simply pointing interesting opportunities to delve into the fiction you're writing
14:07	Silber	Letting the "what" come before the "why".
14:07	HugoLuman	Faminepulse Why? Why the dwarf fortress? I'll admit they eventually begin to resemble containment facilities.
14:07	Faminepulse	huh
14:07	Faminepulse	my weaver juts decided to start murdering people
14:07	Jekeled	:U
14:07	Jekeled	seems legit?
14:07	EchoFourDelta	There's no right or wrong, but going at it from that approach can open up a lot of avenues for a writer to explore their SCP with, and worldbuild some fascinating stuff
14:07	Silber	Echo: that was very enlightening, thanks
14:08		EchoFourDelta bows
14:08		Deseis debates if he should post his NON-FINISHED sandbox post...
14:08	VAE	Right - so containment procedures should ideally be written such that when you read them, it's clear what's to be done in a containment breach too.
14:08		Silber claps
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14:08	Deseis	Btw, thanks for the information Echo, pretty awesome stuff. ^^;
14:08	EchoFourDelta
14:08	Deseis	Link, not post btw*
14:08		VAE prods echo to write this sort of stuff into an essay or guide,even.
14:08	cchaos	So hey guys, I made a -J
14:08	EchoFourDelta	Deseis: We can't eat you
14:08	cchaos	It's on my sandbox
14:08	EchoFourDelta	Post it
14:08	cchaos	http://scpsandbox2.wikidot.com/cryogenchaos
14:08	cchaos	IT's the first one
14:09	cchaos	You can ignore the other thing
14:09	Deseis	And after his, here goes mine DX - http://scpsandbox2.wikidot.com/spc-093-gray-test
14:09	Deseis	*hides from Mackenzie*
14:09	shash	thx a lot echo
14:09	VAE	ehh
14:09	cchaos	Being a joke SCP, I don't actually expect it to go anywhere
14:09		VAE dislikes the joke
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14:10	cchaos	Certainly not actual wiki material
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14:10	Jekeled	:|
14:10		--- Foolamancer is back
14:10		Foolamancer wanders in.
14:10	EchoFourDelta	Silber: This is one of the reasons I've advocated a loose continuity and story, if not a solid, hard-as-nails canon. A framework doesn't limit creativity or stifle imagination so much as give you something solid to build upon.
14:10	Jekeled	cchaos: We don't write SPCs here