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Scizor300

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Scizor300
Jan 17th, 2014
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  1. 01[14:05] <Scizor300> yo charyb so resistances
  2. 01[14:05] <Scizor300> i have an idea to make them easy as hell to understand unlike rpgmaker's shitty way of doing it
  3. 01[14:06] <Scizor300> basically attacks and enemies have ratings for elemental resistances
  4. 01[14:06] <Scizor300> 1 to 10 and it can be positive or negative
  5. [14:07] <Charybdizs> okay
  6. [14:07] <Charybdizs> go on
  7. 01[14:07] <Scizor300> attacks would always be postive, obviously
  8. [14:07] <Charybdizs> sounds cool
  9. 01[14:07] <Scizor300> if the attack's rating exceeds that of the defense rating, then it deals damage multiplied by the total difference
  10. 01[14:07] <Scizor300> so say
  11. 01[14:08] <Scizor300> you have a fireball that does 5 damage at its base value
  12. 01[14:08] <Scizor300> and an elemental rating of 5
  13. 01[14:08] <Scizor300> you attack an enemy with -2 resistance (weakness)
  14. 01[14:08] <Scizor300> you deal 35 fire damage
  15. [14:08] <Charybdizs> wait
  16. [14:08] <Charybdizs> why would we want resistances anyways
  17. 01[14:09] <Scizor300> i dunno
  18. 01[14:09] <Scizor300> just a thought really
  19. [14:09] <Charybdizs> resistances only extend battles longer than they should be or make them a cakewalk
  20. 01[14:09] <Scizor300> it would be mainly for stronger enemies and bosses
  21. [14:09] <Charybdizs> spiral knights had a really shitty system because it had resistances for Shadow, Elemental, and Piercing
  22. [14:09] <Charybdizs> it made you always have some enemy type you were super weak to
  23. [14:09] <Charybdizs> it sucked
  24. [14:09] <Charybdizs> unless you just went for median
  25. [14:09] <Charybdizs> HOWEVER
  26. [14:10] <Charybdizs> spiral knights did status effects awesomely
  27. [14:10] <Charybdizs> there are no type resistances or strengths
  28. [14:10] <Charybdizs> everything can be affected by anything (except for obvious cases, where like a poison move couldn't poison a plagued rat, but that's just intuitive)
  29. [14:11] <Charybdizs> they each do different things
  30. 01[14:11] <Scizor300> i dunno, if the player wanted they could just go full physical defense and hp which would be slightly worse than what the resistances would cover but it would be much better for general damage mitigation or enemies that deal only physical damage (like the generic mooks you one-shot anyways)
  31. 01[14:11] <Scizor300> the equipment for resistance would provide a more annoying alternative but something you could easily switch out
  32. [14:11] <Charybdizs> annoying isn't something we want
  33. 01[14:11] <Scizor300> i'm just throwing shit out to see if it sticks though
  34. [14:12] <Charybdizs> don't
  35. [14:12] <Charybdizs> that's a really indie way of doing things
  36. 01[14:12] <Scizor300> just blowing out steam because i really fucking hate the way rpgmaker does elements
  37. [14:12] <Charybdizs> think things through and try to logic your way through them and see if you can reason out whether they'd be fun or not
  38. 01[14:12] <Scizor300> also you know the definition of indie, right?
  39. [14:12] <Charybdizs> yes
  40. 01[14:12] <Scizor300> small team without a publisher
  41. [14:12] <Charybdizs> yes
  42. 01[14:12] <Scizor300> isn't that exactly what we are
  43. [14:13] <Charybdizs> yes
  44. [14:13] <Charybdizs> I'm obviously using indie in the #kathy sense
  45. 01[14:13] <Scizor300> then why do you say indie as if it's a bad thing
  46. 01[14:13] <Scizor300> oh
  47. 01[14:13] <Scizor300> well we haven't even gotten the combat system totally down aside from how abilities would work so
  48. [14:13] <Charybdizs> people that put an overfocus on a specific element of a game without paying attention to any of the others that are equally as important
  49. [14:13] <Charybdizs> lol
  50. 01[14:13] <Scizor300> it's good to at least think of stuff for later
  51. [14:13] <Charybdizs> in general
  52. [14:14] <Charybdizs> it's just a joking but sometimes accurate term
  53. 01[14:14] <Scizor300> well the elements would be a more of per-world basis
  54. [14:14] <Charybdizs> that's even worse
  55. [14:14] <Charybdizs> because then some worlds are automatically grindy
  56. 01[14:14] <Scizor300> hm
  57. 01[14:14] <Scizor300> well
  58. 01[14:14] <Scizor300> it would be more of grinding for cash
  59. [14:14] <Charybdizs> in spiral knights I had slime armor which was weak to shadow
  60. [14:14] <Charybdizs> I had a piercing weapon
  61. 01[14:14] <Scizor300> because i don't know about drops from non-boss enemies
  62. [14:14] <Charybdizs> you get in there and are like
  63. [14:15] <Charybdizs> "well this is gonna be a chore"
  64. [14:15] <Charybdizs> into a shadow level I mean
  65. [14:15] <Charybdizs> drops?
  66. 01[14:15] <Scizor300> bosses would drop souls you can use to craft unique weapons but that would be it
  67. [14:15] <Charybdizs> what sort of drops
  68. 01[14:15] <Scizor300> i played the shit out of terraria so i really really hate rare drops
  69. [14:15] <Charybdizs> oh I wasn't thinking of letting people change their weapons
  70. [14:16] <Charybdizs> maybe weapon appearance
  71. 01[14:16] <Scizor300> well for the most part they would be reskins except with a bit better scaling
  72. 01[14:16] <Scizor300> or stuff like range
  73. [14:16] <Charybdizs> nah that'd all be handled in skill trees
  74. 01[14:16] <Scizor300> but that would apply to normal attacks and not abilities
  75. 01[14:16] <Scizor300> the skill tree would handle abilities
  76. [14:16] <Charybdizs> and normal attacks
  77. 01[14:16] <Scizor300> and small passive bonuses
  78. 01[14:17] <Scizor300> yeah but stuff like range and base damage/scaling would be more item-based
  79. [14:17] <Charybdizs> why?
  80. 01[14:17] <Scizor300> i dunno
  81. 01[14:17] <Scizor300> i don't think your weapon would automatically grow longer
  82. [14:17] <Charybdizs> go play more awesomenauts
  83. [14:17] <Charybdizs> think of upgrading in those terms
  84. 01[14:17] <Scizor300> cleave?
  85. 01[14:18] <Scizor300> the weapon itself wouldn't make contact but a small wave would?
  86. [14:18] <Charybdizs> no
  87. [14:18] <Charybdizs> I mean upgrading
  88. 01[14:18] <Scizor300> oh
  89. 01[14:18] <Scizor300> eh
  90. [14:18] <Charybdizs> like
  91. [14:19] <Charybdizs> you can spend your points to upgrade range, add a blaze effect, do more base damage, lifesteal
  92. 01[14:19] <Scizor300> yeah
  93. [14:19] <Charybdizs> and they're all balanced as to be viable options
  94. 01[14:19] <Scizor300> well every weapon would have their strengths and weaknesses
  95. [14:19] <Charybdizs> what sort
  96. 01[14:19] <Scizor300> longer range but less damage and vice versa, cleave effect, elemental damage, etc.
  97. [14:20] <Charybdizs> why when that can be handled by upgrades
  98. 01[14:20] <Scizor300> because i like having equipment management because i always liked doing that in games like dark souls
  99. [14:20] <Charybdizs> hm
  100. 01[14:20] <Scizor300> if you want to roll and run faster you get lighter armor, but you have less defense
  101. 01[14:21] <Scizor300> if you want longer range and more power, you equip the zweihander but it's slow as shit
  102. [14:21] <Charybdizs> stuff like that would probably be pretty dependent on base stats, and character
  103. 01[14:21] <Scizor300> yeah
  104. [14:21] <Charybdizs> like movement speed or w/e
  105. 01[14:21] <Scizor300> well, there would be weapon categories
  106. [14:21] <Charybdizs> attack speed, knockback
  107. [14:21] <Charybdizs> stuff like that
  108. 01[14:21] <Scizor300> think kingdom hearts
  109. 01[14:21] <Scizor300> with donald and goofy's weapons
  110. [14:21] <Charybdizs> huh
  111. 01[14:21] <Scizor300> and apply that to every character
  112. 01[14:21] <Scizor300> they all have their own unique weapons
  113. [14:21] <Charybdizs> I don't remember what their weapons did
  114. [14:22] <Charybdizs> oh yeah
  115. 01[14:22] <Scizor300> just damage and defense for the most part
  116. [14:22] <Charybdizs> that's what the intention was
  117. 01[14:22] <Scizor300> yeah but they'd also have a selection of other weapons to buy
  118. 01[14:22] <Scizor300> katanas, spell books, staves, etc.
  119. 01[14:22] <Scizor300> they'd be reskins with slightly better stats for the most part
  120. [14:23] <Charybdizs> that sounds like a money sink
  121. 01[14:23] <Scizor300> the boss weapons would be slightly weaker but they have other stuff to make up for it
  122. 01[14:23] <Scizor300> i kind of liked sinking money into stuff other than hi-potions and elixirs
  123. 01[14:23] <Scizor300> now we won't go totally overboard like pso2 and its shitty weapons though
  124. 01[14:24] <Scizor300> "oh you got this weapon time to go burn shitloads of cash and materials on upgrading it which might not even work"
  125. 01[14:24] <Scizor300> and yeah, as long as you don't go through the level skipping ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING you'll usually have enough cash to upgrade and buy some stuff
  126. 01[14:25] <Scizor300> by the endgame you should have a build you like without having to grind for it
  127. [14:25] <Charybdizs> that sucks
  128. [14:25] <Charybdizs> it leaves the possibility of grinding open
  129. [14:25] <Charybdizs> besides
  130. [14:25] <Charybdizs> skippable obstacles generally means like
  131. 01[14:25] <Scizor300> but why would you grind if you can get anything you want playing thr game normally
  132. [14:25] <Charybdizs> bad obstacle placement
  133. [14:26] <Charybdizs> it's a platformer
  134. 01[14:26] <Scizor300> well enemies would be the skippable parts for the most part
  135. [14:26] <Charybdizs> the obstacles should help you proceed or be mandatory to fight in the case of minibosses
  136. [14:26] <Charybdizs> enemies shouldn't be skippable
  137. 01[14:26] <Scizor300> unless you're playing as sciz in which you can blast through doors with rocket kicks
  138. [14:26] <Charybdizs> fighting them should make you go faster
  139. [14:26] <Charybdizs> like
  140. 01[14:26] <Scizor300> well
  141. [14:26] <Charybdizs> combo bouncing on goombas in mario
  142. 01[14:26] <Scizor300> think of it like rayman origins
  143. 01[14:27] <Scizor300> you CAN skip the enemies and go on with the level
  144. 01[14:27] <Scizor300> but why would you unless you were just speedrunning
  145. 01[14:27] <Scizor300> even srb2 does it that way
  146. [14:28] <Charybdizs> no you got it wrong
  147. [14:28] <Charybdizs> fighting enemies should be yummy and make you go faster
  148. [14:28] <Charybdizs> like
  149. 01[14:29] <Scizor300> you act like we're going to only place enemies in places for that
  150. 01[14:29] <Scizor300> they might as well be dash pads you press a button to use in that case
  151. [14:29] <Charybdizs> besides specific battle arenas, yes
  152. [14:29] <Charybdizs> that's how I see it
  153. [14:29] <Charybdizs> enemy placement should never be "oh here's another wolf"
  154. [14:30] <Charybdizs> it should be "here's an enemy who you have to remove to get past safely OR just safely navigate past"
  155. 01[14:30] <Scizor300> "i want that wolf for exp and gold so why not kill it"
  156. [14:30] <Charybdizs> like
  157. [14:30] <Charybdizs> uuugh
  158. [14:30] <Charybdizs> that's the worst reason to fight
  159. 01[14:30] <Scizor300> hell even mario as an example
  160. 01[14:30] <Scizor300> you don't have to go ocd and kill every goomba
  161. [14:30] <Charybdizs> the fight itself should be a reward
  162. 01[14:30] <Scizor300> you can skip half the map by running on top of it
  163. 01[14:31] <Scizor300> also how is it going to be a reward when you one-shot any non-miniboss/boss enemy anyways
  164. [14:32] <Charybdizs> I don't think I ever said that you'd be one shotting
  165. [14:33] <Charybdizs> I pictured more like Dust
  166. [14:33] <Charybdizs> where you can perform combos on them and use the physics of fighting moves to do crazy stuff off of them
  167. 01[14:33] <Scizor300> well when we had it as "rayman origins" where you literally one-shot everything that isn't a boss
  168. 01[14:33] <Scizor300> well yeah
  169. [14:33] <Charybdizs> "we"
  170. [14:33] <Charybdizs> no
  171. [14:33] <Charybdizs> you used that as an example
  172. 01[14:33] <Scizor300> but if you want to just one-shot them and get past them you can
  173. 01[14:33] <Scizor300> it would be basically devil may cry with the way you're describing it
  174. [14:34] <Charybdizs> when you have the option to oneshot something why WOULDN'T you
  175. 01[14:34] <Scizor300> SURE you can play it the boring way and just spam square, but why would you when you can do all of this cool and crazy looking shit to them
  176. 01[14:35] <Scizor300> and hell mashing square would put you at a disadvantage at times too
  177. 01[14:36] <Scizor300> and besides, you'd usually one-shot generics because as they get stronger so do you
  178. 01[14:36] <Scizor300> if you want difficulty levels they could be stronger than you all the time
  179. 01[14:36] <Scizor300> and even be switched out at times for miniboss enemies
  180. 01[14:36] <Scizor300> which brings another example for dark souls
  181. 01[14:37] <Scizor300> not even an hour after beating two demon bosses you can fight several of them at once
  182. 01[14:37] <Scizor300> they're still obnoxious and annoying but you're stronger so it's less of an issue
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