-unimportant things here-
[13:46] <@Metal> What I will try to do is look inbetween the shit flinging
[13:46] <@Dynamo> also, is zap coming
[13:46] <@Metal> See if I can find some decent feedback
[13:46] <@Dynamo> Metal: plenty of feedback
[13:46] <@Wartorn> Dynamo: I have not received a response.
[13:46] <Dusk> there will be no shit flinging
[13:46] <@Dynamo> unfortunately decay blew it
[13:46] <@Wartorn> So I presume no.
[13:46] <@Dynamo> so it became a massive shitfest
[13:46] <Dusk> yeah
[13:46] <@Metal> Hmm
[13:46] <@Dynamo> and well, we are not here to defend decay
[13:46] <@Dynamo> I think the ban was very much justified
[13:46] <@Metal> What I gathered was verbal warnings were becoming a nuisence.
[13:46] <@TheToxicAvenger> I don;t think anyone is here to defend him
[13:46] <Dusk> i'm not
[13:46] <@Metal> Anyone in favor of that?
[13:47] <@Dynamo> alright I can say what I personally think, though personally warnings never bothered me that much
[13:47] <@Ruin> no
[13:47] <@Dynamo> because unlike people I don't post just to post/sound hostile in my posts
[13:47] <@Dynamo> unlike some people*
[13:47] <@Dynamo> but whatever
[13:47] <@Ruin> TTA's post was fine. As history has shown.
[13:47] <@Metal> While everyone is here, I want to clear something up
[13:47] <@Metal> With EVERYONE
[13:47] <@Ruin> People will shit post the hell out of things they don't like.
[13:47] <@TheToxicAvenger> Shoot
[13:48] <@Metal> Decays ban, I feel, was justified due to the amount of hostile posting he provided, I do apologize for my own, but when I had warned him once, he continued.
[13:48] <@Metal> Swiftshot has had a looong history of useless agitating posts.
[13:48] <@Dynamo> oh wait, seems decay is coming
[13:48] * Essay (~DarkMirror@EssaySoldier.users.zandronum.com) has joined #zastaff
[13:48] <@Wartorn> Hello.
[13:48] <@TheToxicAvenger> I've been trying to get Swift to cut down on that
[13:48] <Essay> hello
[13:48] <@TheToxicAvenger> hi
[13:48] <Essay> hi
[13:49] * Antlint (~Antlint@SoulSucka.users.zandronum.com) has joined #zastaff
[13:49] <@Metal> Ok
[13:49] <@Metal> [15:46] <@Metal> What I gathered was verbal warnings were becoming a nuisence.
[13:49] <@Wartorn> I've assembled some of the staff together and some of you folk here in order to get something figured out. http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1881 This thread happened for a reason. I want to determine why and get a solution together.
[13:49] <LinkBot> Moderator Warnings [split from MM8BDM Challenge Thread]
[13:50] <Essay> first and foremost
[13:51] <Essay> let me be clear that if the thread was not a result of a split, i would've make the first post properly detailed, insofar as detailing what i thought was "wrong" and how it could be resolved
[13:51] <Essay> so i take blame for not fixing said first post when it was split
[13:51] <@Metal> And I take blame for retaliating the way I did.
[13:51] <@Metal> And I'm sorry.
[13:51] <Essay> and so am i
[13:51] * Puhax (~TuPutaMadr@TeamCorruption) has joined #zastaff
[13:52] <@Wartorn> I'm glad.
[13:52] <@Metal> With the thread outof the way for now, can we get out of you what you would like to see?
[13:52] <@Metal> out of*
[13:52] * Legion_ (~Legion@Legion-35137.users.zandronum.com) has joined #zastaff
[13:52] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Legion_
[13:52] <Essay> well, i can do the best i can
[13:53] <Essay> most of the time i do not realize i am being "hostile"
[13:53] <Essay> and don't notice it until somebody has pointed it out
[13:53] <@Wartorn> Passive aggression tends to be like that, yeah. It's quite hard to read anything but that in the format of text.
[13:54] * ManiXa (~Legion@pool-108-12-69-205.sangtx.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 300 seconds)
[13:54] <Puhax> I'll say something I feel is a bit wrong, and it's that lately the rules have been taken too literally. That's how I feel, and I could be totally wrong with this.
[13:55] <Essay> at the same time though
[13:55] <Essay> i'd request you relax a bit too
[13:55] <@Metal> [15:54] <Puhax> I'll say something I feel is a bit wrong, and it's that lately the rules have been taken too literally. That's how I feel, and I could be totally wrong with this.
[13:55] <@Metal> Agreed. I think we're looking into fine detailing a bit too much.
[13:55] <@Dynamo> I think it's best to do one subject at a time, just me
[13:55] <@Dynamo> but carry on
[13:56] <@Metal> Bitch, I can multitask. Get out
[13:56] <Dusk> heh
[13:56] <@Wartorn> I'm in agreement with Dynamo for the time being, it's easier to deal with the blind that way. We can get on the matter of Puhax's concerns momentarily.
[13:56] <@Metal> Mmk
[13:56] <@Wartorn> Unless Essay has finished speaking?
[13:56] <@Metal> [15:55] <Essay> at the same time though
[13:56] <@Metal> [15:55] <Essay> i'd request you relax a bit too
[13:56] <Puhax> I will also mention something from before, and as much as I hate to use examples from long ago for something current, I feel I have to. || A long time ago I actually almost got banned from IRC for trying to take a rule to literally to save myself from a warn.
[13:56] <@Metal> Was this directed at me?
[13:57] <Essay> correct
[13:57] <@Metal> Do you feel my posting his hostile?
[13:57] <Essay> yes
[13:57] <@Metal> Fixed.
[13:58] <@Wartorn> We'll see over time how well that settles.
[13:58] <@Wartorn> As I'm sure everyone's aware it doesn't usually happen in an instant.
[13:58] <@Metal> I think the staff is trying too hard to be perfect, or close to it, so we're following the book word for word and posting for every least little thing, but again, we do get mindless reports from people who want us to look over those things.
[13:59] <@TheToxicAvenger> Perhaps I did jump the gun on the MM8BDM thread a bit
[13:59] <Puhax> Didn't you guys warn people back then for using the report button too much when it wasn't necessary?
[13:59] <@Wartorn> It will never be possible to become perfect. We can only hope to give our moderators experience that way.
[13:59] <@Ruin> I don't have must stake here but I will say this.   I do think all the warnings are a bit much.  I'm fine with splitting the thread, saying my piece and leaving it at that.
[13:59] <@TheToxicAvenger> I was going by past experiences with the "MM8BDM World Domination" thread when that slyfox fellow (was that his name) appeared
[14:00] <Essay> well tta
[14:00] <Essay> here's why i made that post in the first place
[14:00] <Essay> there's gotta be room to grow
[14:00] <@TheToxicAvenger> You raise a good point.
[14:00] <Essay> we know that you guys are watching threads like that
[14:00] <Essay> i know you meant well
[14:00] <Essay> but maybe a solution could be to just cut the posts away, maybe warn
[14:00] <@TheToxicAvenger> I guess I was being too preemptive there.
[14:01] <Essay> qent brought up a good point about putting a negative spin on the thread too early
[14:01] <Essay> furthermore, your posts do make it tempting for certain people to muck around with you
[14:01] * @TheToxicAvenger notes this down
[14:01] <@Wartorn> raaaape
[14:01] * @Wartorn coughs
[14:01] <@Wartorn> Excuse me.
[14:02] <Essay> one moment please, i have someone to quickly deal with
[14:02] <@Metal> So what you're saying is basically, let the thread run it's course, and when it's getting bad THEN split and warn, yes?
[14:02] <@Metal> Ok
[14:03] <@Ruin> There's going to be the issue of what to split and not to split.
[14:03] <Puhax> Although it would be good if there isn't a warn if it's not really necessary.
[14:03] <Essay> alright, sorry about that
[14:04] <Essay> well, maybe not when
[14:04] <Essay> but if
[14:04] <Essay> theoretically it shouldn't be
[14:04] <@Dynamo> the warns argument is a big one for many reasons
[14:04] <@Dynamo> no thread is the same and the type of eventual insults and potential flamewar posts are always different
[14:04] <@Dynamo> not to mention not everyone might see it the same way, i.e. a post might look like it might erupt into a shitfest to me but not to anybody else
[14:05] <@Dynamo> that is why consulting everyone else before doing anything is a priority, but that's for granted
[14:05] <@Ruin> People aren't always around.
[14:05] <@Dynamo> sure, but we have a lot of staff
[14:05] <@Dynamo> surely more than one person is online at any time
[14:05] <@Ruin> Not always.
[14:05] <@Dynamo> well, most of the time
[14:05] * Tor-Bjorn (~Tor-Bjorn@Tor-Bjorn.users.zandronum.com) has joined #zastaff
[14:06] <Dusk> y'know
[14:06] <Dusk> in zdoom when it comes to warnings
[14:06] <Dusk> the offending post is edited to note that the user was warned for it and for what reason
[14:06] * Retrieving #zastaff modes...
[14:06] <@Metal> I would like that
[14:06] <@Wartorn> I was thinking similarly earlier today
[14:07] <@Dynamo> yeah that's a good idea
[14:07] <@Wartorn> It may not be a bad idea to adopt that as a policy.
[14:07] <@TheToxicAvenger> I don't see what would be bad about it
[14:08] <@Ruin> I like it.
[14:08] <Puhax> I wouldn't mind that.
[14:08] <@Razgriz> So what would become of the trashbin?
[14:08] <@Wartorn> TheToxicAvenger: Tampering of the original post may b-- nevermind I'm an idiot I just remembered we have a functionality to combat this
[14:08] <@Dynamo> personally, although it has been said that warnings shouldn't be as frequent, my personal opinion is that we should not split every post just because it's not super useful of 100% relevant to the discussion
[14:08] <@Ruin> ok but there's got to be a line.
[14:08] <@Dynamo> oh sure
[14:09] <@Wartorn> Right
[14:09] <@Dynamo> posting random insults isn't good
[14:09] <@Ruin> I'm tired of the pointless posts and meme garbage.
[14:09] <@Dynamo> yeah the meme garbage has to go
[14:09] <Dusk> the meme garbage can get out
[14:09] <@Wartorn> I'm in agreement.
[14:09] <@Metal> Damn
[14:09] <@Metal> :(
[14:09] <@TheToxicAvenger> I was a meme kiddie once. Never again.
[14:09] <@Wartorn> That's unfortunate.
[14:10] <@Dynamo> http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4108/1204801.jpg does this fall under meme garbage
[14:10] <@Dynamo> out of curiosity
[14:10] <@Ruin> swift's lego post is a prime example. since he likes to use that one a lot.
[14:10] <@Wartorn> Right, so we got something out of this. It may be a good idea to address Puhax's concerns.
[14:10] <Dusk> let's answer Dynamo's question first
[14:10] <@Wartorn> I honestly believe so
[14:10] <@Metal> Yeah
[14:10] <@Wartorn> If it's in repetition, then yeah it falls under the category
[14:10] <Dusk> and yeah i think that the lego reference in itself isn't too bad
[14:10] <@Dynamo> well then it should be taken care of
[14:10] <Dusk> but that image yes
[14:10] <Antlint> Dynamo That's part of someone's signature, isn't it?
[14:10] <Tor-Bjorn> [15:09] <@Dynamo> yeah the meme garbage has to go
[14:10] <Tor-Bjorn> [15:09] <Dusk> the meme garbage can get out
[14:10] <Tor-Bjorn> http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/neutral-whyyyyy-l.png
[14:11] <Dusk> heh.
[14:11] <@Wartorn> lol
[14:11] <@Ruin> the reference wasn't what got him in trouble. Though he apparently seems to think that.
[14:11] <@Dynamo> Tor-Bjorn: because we are cruel
[14:11] <Puhax> No seriously meme garbage is worse than everything else you can think of.
[14:11] <@Ruin> It was a pointless post that had no business being there in the first place.
[14:11] <Dusk> eh it kinda conveyed a negative opinion sort of
[14:11] <Antlint> Isn't it...
[14:11] <Dusk> i don't think the post was bad
[14:11] <@Dynamo> to be honest as far as swiftshot's post goes I don't think it was worth splitting
[14:11] <@Dynamo> just my personal opinion eh
[14:11] <Essay> ^
[14:11] <@TheToxicAvenger> AFAIK Swift does have one suspension on record since we came to Zandro
[14:12] <@Dynamo> I mean he basically said "no I don't like it I think it's immature"
[14:12] <Dusk> that doesn't mean anything, we're talking about the post here right?
[14:12] <Dusk> yeah
[14:12] <@Dynamo> which is... not that awful
[14:12] <@Dynamo> it's not like he actively insulted people or something
[14:12] <@Metal> Yeah but posting "No I don't like it" when someone asked "Anyone still play minecraft?"
[14:12] <@Metal> Is kinda pointless
[14:12] <@Metal> Actually, 100% pointless.
[14:13] <Dusk> how is it? he's gathering opinions about minecraft?
[14:13] <@Dynamo> I'm not saying it's the most useful post in the world but I simply don't think it was harming anyone
[14:13] <Antlint> I think it was, actually
[14:13] <@Dynamo> and I think that is where we have to draw the line Ruin mentioned
[14:13] <Dusk> yeah it's sort of a.. neutral post kind of
[14:13] <@Metal> "Anyone still play minecraft?" is not "Whats your opinion on minecraft"
[14:13] <@Ruin> ^
[14:13] <Dusk> i'm not sure should the thread title being taken that literally
[14:13] <Dusk> be*
[14:13] <Antlint> "I stopped playing with legos when I was 5" sort of implies everyone who plays it is childish.
[14:13] <@Dynamo> well he could've just posted No
[14:13] <@Dynamo> if he did that, I think the post would've been just as pointless
[14:14] <@Metal> Still useless
[14:14] <@Dynamo> if not more so
[14:14] <@Dynamo> actually, way more so
[14:14] <@Wartorn> Antlint: Yeah, if you'd like to generalize it like that, that is what it sounds like.
[14:14] <Dusk> yeah it would've been pointless enough i would've split it
[14:14] <@Dynamo> but anyway while we are on the subject of swift's post
[14:14] <@Dynamo> I have a question since I'm not sure I fully understand this
[14:15] <@Dynamo> http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1883 how come redshirt received an inferior warning level?
[14:15] <LinkBot> [split] I challenge everyone to MM8BDM
[14:15] <@Dynamo> I mean, he posted the same thing as swiftshot (in a much more offensive way), and it was also a way to mock swiftshot himself from my understanding
[14:15] <@Dynamo> not exactly classy behaviour
[14:15] * ManiXa (~Legion@pool-108-12-69-205.sangtx.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #zastaff
[14:16] <@Dynamo> also he posted it later than swiftshot as well, if one looked at the trash and saw swift's post there, I believe it must act as a sign to demonstrate you aren't supposed to make posts like that
[14:16] <@Metal> Hmm that was TTA who warned him
[14:16] <@TheToxicAvenger> I figured at the time that Redshirt wasn't as much of a repeat offender, but you're probably right
[14:16] <Antlint> I agree with Dynamo
[14:16] <@Ruin> as do I.
[14:16] <@Dynamo> I mean he even went as far as put it in his signature, heh
[14:17] <@Dynamo> then again I guess other people have done things like that before, but still
[14:17] <Dusk> putting that stuff into signatures like that isn't a very nice thing to do either imo
[14:17] <@Dynamo> I believe if we want a cleaner forum overall it has to be a two-way thing, no need to be nice all the time if people just like to antagonize other people all the time
[14:17] <@Dynamo> antagonizing is in fact one of the main issues
[14:17] <@Dynamo> it seems some people here hate others so much it's ridiculous
[14:18] <Essay> sometimes
[14:18] <Essay> there is a very good reason for it
[14:18] * @Legion_ (~Legion@Legion-35137.users.zandronum.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 300 seconds)
[14:18] <@Dynamo> I think redshirt is actually a good example of this, often starting flamewars against other users just because he doesn't like them
[14:18] <Antlint> I think there will be antagonizing no matter what gets done.
[14:18] <@Dynamo> some people need to understand the antagonizing needs to stop or they will face consequences
[14:18] <@Wartorn> I'm in agreement with Antlint. It cannot really be eliminated.
[14:18] <@Dynamo> imho, at least
[14:19] <@Metal> [16:18] <@Dynamo> some people need to understand the antagonizing needs to stop or they will face consequences
[14:19] <@Metal> dis
[14:19] <@Ruin> It cannot be eliminated, but it won't be left unchecked.
[14:19] <@Metal> I dunno why people are all at war here, we're all playing the same damn game.
[14:19] <@Dynamo> I'm not asking people to be nice to everybody, there's a good handful of people I don't really like at all
[14:19] <@Dynamo> but you don't need to come off as a dick about it is what I'm saying
[14:19] <Dusk> speaking of playing the same damn game i'dh
[14:19] <Dusk> i'd want to note a thing about that but let's take that later on
[14:19] <@Dynamo> there's dragon for example who I don't really get along with at all but you don't see me stalking him on servers or mocking him on the forums
[14:20] <Antlint> Is Red's signature breaking any rules?
[14:20] <@TheToxicAvenger> Antagonization can be considered human nature to an extent, but that nature has to be controlled a bit
[14:20] <@Dynamo> ^
[14:20] <@Metal> Antlint: Yeah, and I didn't notice it until earlier today
[14:20] <@Metal> I'm waiting for him to come online
[14:21] <@Wartorn> So what do you all propose for reducing the problem?
[14:21] <@TheToxicAvenger> Antlint: I've brought it up a few times with the others, since I didn't want to act soley on my own belief on that.
[14:21] <@Dynamo> the meat of what I'm saying here is that useless posts are not good but compared to repeated antagonization, I think the latter should take the priority
[14:21] <@Dynamo> again, just my opinion
[14:21] <@TheToxicAvenger> but I didn't get that far on that
[14:21] <Dusk> i think that useless posts don't really need action taken upon them
[14:21] <Dusk> i think that the line should be where indeed it gets to insults or antagonizing
[14:22] <@Dynamo> agreed, unless useless posts become too frequent
[14:22] <Puhax> yeah
[14:22] <@Dynamo> posting "cool" on every thread is not okay
[14:22] <Dusk> yes
[14:22] <@Dynamo> but if it happens ONCE
[14:22] <Puhax> I was about to say that Dynamo
[14:22] <Puhax> :[
[14:22] <@Dynamo> I don't think it's a big deal
[14:22] <@Wartorn> Yeah.
[14:22] <@Metal> Yup
[14:22] <@Metal> Would've been the case for someone like swiftshot but his were almost constant.
[14:22] <@Metal> And some were antagonizing.
[14:22] <@Wartorn> Off-topic but I really do wish this channel would be used more like I originally hoped when it started.
[14:22] <@Dynamo> yes swiftshot didn't exactly have the most brilliant post history
[14:23] <@Wartorn> I guess I didn't do enough to say "Use this pleaaaaasssseeeeee"
[14:23] <@Dynamo> Wartorn: hopefully this is a start for that to happen
[14:23] <@Metal> Oh
[14:23] <@Wartorn> I especially hoped to see folks like Essay in here.
[14:23] <Essay> maybe to help cut down on the excessive/pointless posts, get rid of post counts
[14:23] <@Metal> ^
[14:23] <@Dynamo> agreed
[14:23] <Dusk> in zdoom the post count is only visible on the profile page
[14:23] <@Wartorn> I think that is a solid idea, yeah.
[14:23] <Dusk> in doomworld it's there but invisible
[14:23] <@Ruin> I'd rather not see threads filled with one liners from people who think they're funny, but that's just me.
[14:23] <@Dynamo> Ruin: neither do I
[14:23] <@Dynamo> but one thing is a thread full of that
[14:24] <@Dynamo> another is one post every once in a while
[14:24] <@Wartorn> But disabling forum functonality would have to be collective agreement so this has to be elevated to the public forum first
[14:24] <@Ruin> that's the thing
[14:24] <@Ruin> it doesn't usually happen that way.
[14:24] <@Dynamo> it really depends on the thread in question I suppose
[14:24] <@Ruin> once one person starts, more try to join in.
[14:24] <Essay> there is a severe problem with the group mentality
[14:25] <Essay> when a particular person posts, those who post after are generally predictable
[14:25] <Essay> with similar results
[14:25] <@Wartorn> Right, and it's hard to isolate as well
[14:25] <@Dynamo> it's not just that though
[14:25] <@Wartorn> It's incredibly difficult to pull one away from the group without the rest of the monkies coming out of the barrel
[14:26] <Dusk> is that so?
[14:26] <Dusk> if it's posted on the public forum i think that actual argumentation would be needed
[14:26] <Dusk> aka no useless posts in that thread, since it has by far more meaning than `do you still play minecraft`
[14:26] <@Dynamo> if all posts were super long, detailed and unique (something I don't see happening anytime soon...) and smaller posts were frowned upon, I'm not sure it'd be the right atmosphere to even post
[14:26] <@Dynamo> and yes
[14:26] <@Dynamo> there are threads and threads
[14:26] <@Dynamo> "do you still play minecraft" is not a big deal but others require more effort
[14:26] <@Dynamo> but that's for granted I guess
[14:27] <@Ruin> I'm not saying small posts are frowned upon. From what I've seen, one pointless post in a thread usually brings on more. Because people try hard to be funny. Looking for some perverbial pat on the back.
[14:27] <Essay> this
[14:27] <Dusk> keep things under control
[14:28] <@Dynamo> yeah
[14:28] <@Dynamo> I'd say just intervene if they escalate
[14:28] <Dusk> if useless posts start racking up, say "yo cut out with the one word posts"
[14:28] <Dusk> cut it out*
[14:28] <@TheToxicAvenger> Dynamo: I can work with that
[14:28] <@Dynamo> speaking of the whole atmosphere thing though
[14:28] <Dusk> because by that time it's probably went offtopic anyway
[14:28] <@Wartorn> Ultimately though if the thread is unable to produce a sizable discussion it could be argued the thread be put down
[14:28] <Dusk> i'm not sure
[14:28] <@Dynamo> dunno
[14:28] <@Ruin> I've been doing that.  I bet of the other mods went back and looked at my history, I probably hardly have no warnings passed out in regards to splits involving that subject matter.
[14:28] <Dusk> i'd imagine such threads die out anyway
[14:28] <@Wartorn> This is subjective
[14:29] <@Dynamo> depends on how worthless it becomes
[14:29] <@Ruin> if*
[14:29] <@Wartorn> So I guess we'll see
[14:29] <@Dynamo> keep in mind that removing postcount might make some people not so inclined to post
[14:29] <@Dynamo> like AENIMA
[14:29] <@Metal> rofl
[14:29] <@Dynamo> registers on zandronum, custom message is "used to have 5000 posts"
[14:29] <@Dynamo> yo, very cool achievement bro!
[14:29] <Dusk> yeah
[14:29] <@Wartorn> lol
[14:29] <Dusk> i'd say have the post counts appear only at the profile page
[14:29] <Essay> <Ruin>I've been doing that.  I bet of the other mods went back and looked at my history, I probably hardly have no warnings passed out in regards to splits involving that subject matter.
[14:29] <@Ruin> I usually split, say what I need to and leave it at that.
[14:29] <Essay> sometimes warns are simply not necessary
[14:29] <@Metal> You'd think having a lot of post would suggest someone has nothing better to do....
[14:30] * Antlint (~Antlint@SoulSucka.users.zandronum.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 300 seconds)
[14:30] <Dusk> if someone really wants to know, it's at the profile page but it's not that visible and definitely not a status counter like how it is
[14:30] <Essay> and they generate more anger than you might think
[14:30] <@Dynamo> Metal: indeed
[14:30] <@Dynamo> but unfortunately aenima is not the only one
[14:30] <@Wartorn> Oh, as a reminder, please do refrain from singling out certain people as I do hope to post this log up publicly when we're finished
[14:30] <@Ruin> Speaking of.
[14:30] <@Ruin> I'd really appreciate it.
[14:30] <@Dynamo> Wartorn: ops, sorry
[14:30] <Dusk> yes this log needs to go public
[14:30] <@Wartorn> It's fine
[14:30] <@Ruin> if, say, I've handled something and the situation is done and over with.
[14:30] <@Wartorn> I'm sure he'll understand :p But anyway
[14:30] <@Dynamo> I think I have told this to aenima personally before though on #afts so whatever
[14:30] <@Ruin> if other mods didn't go back and pass out warnings.
[14:31] <Dusk> yeah retroactive warning is bad
[14:31] <@Metal> [16:30] <Essay> and they generate more anger than you might think
[14:31] <@Metal> This will happen regardless.
[14:31] <@Ruin> which is what happened with aenima.
[14:31] <@Metal> Even warning people for justified reasons
[14:31] <@Wartorn> It would be nice to have a thread handler system (*pokes Blzut3*) where our moderators can easily communicate "Hey I got this thread"
[14:31] <@Metal> they get pissed off.
[14:31] <Dusk> i guess it should be noted really that a warning is exactly that
[14:31] <@Ruin> I split his post and dtdsphere's, and someone went back and warned them after the situation was dealt with.
[14:31] <Dusk> it's a message to cool down
[14:31] <@Wartorn> Yeah
[14:32] * Dis|AFK is now known as Disguise
[14:32] <Essay> some people take it too personally though
[14:32] <Essay> like post counts!
[14:32] <@Blzut3> Wartorn, if our moderators have to take care of threads that often don't you think we're overdoing something? :P
[14:32] <@Wartorn> ...
[14:32] <Essay> they see a number and get riled up
[14:32] <@Wartorn> I suppose you're right
[14:32] <@Wartorn> Yeah that scales way back now that I think about it
[14:33] <@Metal> dafuq is going on in #zandro
[14:33] <Dusk> oh yeah
[14:33] <@Wartorn> Right, so I think there's not a whole lot to say on this subject. I think we should address Puhax's concerns
[14:34] <Dusk> #zandronum has also become the same hive of stupid as #skulltag once was
[14:34] <@Wartorn> If I can find it.. hang on
[14:34] <Puhax> Metal: I was going to say that rofl
[14:34] <Dusk> what's going on there now
[14:34] <Tor-Bjorn> must be a gas leak in #zandro
[14:34] <@Metal> [15:56] <Puhax> I will also mention something from before, and as much as I hate to use examples from long ago for something current, I feel I have to. || A long time ago I actually almost got banned from IRC for trying to take a rule to literally to save myself from a warn.
[14:34] <@Wartorn> Yeah that's the one
[14:35] <Puhax> oh I mispelled something there
[14:35] <Puhax> too*
[14:35] <@Dynamo> I was once banned on #zandronum for posting a picture of some guy with his balls cut
[14:35] <@Dynamo> am I cool
[14:35] <@Wartorn> lol
[14:35] * Dusk slaps Dynamo with a glassy torch
[14:35] <@Dynamo> this was like 5 years ago
[14:35] <Puhax> goddammit Dynamo
[14:35] <@Dynamo> well, #skulltag *
[14:35] <@Wartorn> Same thing I guess?
[14:35] <@Dynamo> indeed
[14:36] <@Wartorn> Anyway, I think this concern lies into what we talked about earlier in regards of taking things by the book
[14:36] * Water (~Watermelon@Watermelon.users.zandronum.com) has joined #zastaff
[14:36] * Tor-Bjorn is now known as Torvald
[14:36] <Water> a
[14:36] <@Metal> b
[14:36] <Torvald> c
[14:36] <@Ruin> That's the thing
[14:36] <Puhax> c
[14:37] <Puhax> #zastaff can't count to 10.  [/offtopic]
[14:37] <@Ruin> you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.  People try to work it either way no matter what we do.
[14:37] <@Dynamo> well later I wanted to mention stuff like the brony threads but yeah puhax comes before
[14:37] <Puhax> but yeah, I feel the rules are being taken too seriously.
[14:37] <Puhax> er
[14:37] <Puhax> litereally*
[14:37] <@Wartorn> lol
[14:37] <@Dynamo> I think your spelling is not taken seriously enough
[14:37] <@Dynamo> but anyway
[14:37] <Essay> my biggest issue is different punishments for different people
[14:37] <Essay> but let's look at things one at a time
[14:38] <@Dynamo> this one is a bit different because every mod may see the rules in a different way
[14:38] <@Metal> ^
[14:38] <@Wartorn> Right
[14:38] <@Dynamo> so I can't speak of others but as for myself I always see the rules as more of a guideline than anything
[14:38] <Essay> ah but this isn't about the rules
[14:38] <Essay> this is about favouritism
[14:38] <@Dynamo> Essay: one thing at a time.
[14:39] <@Dynamo> let's address the rules first, and then that
[14:39] <@HeavenWraith> hi guys, what's happening
[14:39] <@Wartorn> HeavenWraith: hueg discussion
[14:39] <@Metal> hueg
[14:39] <@Metal> sorry
[14:39] <@Dynamo> for example I see bans as something that needs to be done in order to prevent further damage to the forums if someone is taking it to the extreme
[14:39] <Torvald> ermagahdheugdiscussion
[14:39] <@Dynamo> not as a "punishment"
[14:39] <@Dynamo> as contradicting as that may sound
[14:39] <@Metal> [16:38] <Essay> ah but this isn't about the rules
[14:39] <@Metal> [16:38] <Essay> this is about favouritism
[14:39] <@Metal> I try EVERYTHING not to bias
[14:39] <@HeavenWraith> I just spilled my drink
[14:40] <@Wartorn> I try not to as well. That's pretty much my reason for calling this together in the first place- To do what I originally hoped to months ago.
[14:40] <@Metal> I don't get close to people in the community for that reason.
[14:40] <Torvald> well, is a 2 week ban really a ban, or more just a suspension?
[14:40] <@Dynamo> as favoritisms, this is something that has been discussed many times before but here we go
[14:40] <@Wartorn> I'd think of that as a suspension, yeah
[14:40] <Dusk> and well yeah
[14:40] <Dusk> i've said this before
[14:41] <@Dynamo> no matter how you look at it, banning someone who has a lot of friends and possibly owns servers and stuff is not the same as banning some noob cheater
[14:41] <Dusk> but temporary bans should be distinct from permanent ones to the pbulic
[14:41] <@Dynamo> everybody knows this
[14:41] <@Metal> ^
[14:41] <@Dynamo> but this is why we should be as objective as we can, even at the risk of taking flak ( and this has been done many times before)
[14:41] <Dusk> yeah it's different to do that
[14:41] <@TheToxicAvenger> What Dusk said should be implemented
[14:41] <Dusk> but if the reasons are irrefutable
[14:41] <@Dynamo> however at the same time I still think we should be careful on who we deal with properly
[14:41] <Dusk> the ban should be the same for whoever it is
[14:41] <@Dynamo> there are people who have caused trouble for years, and are still around for some reason
[14:42] <@Dynamo> past cheaters, flamewar starters, game ruiners, and so on
[14:42] <Dusk> and yes i'll stress this again, bans are there to prevent stuff from happening
[14:42] <Dusk> for me
[14:42] <Essay> were there *
[14:42] <Dusk> when i judge should i ban someone (from gv), my primary question is `is this person likely to cause shit in the future if i keep him free?`
[14:42] <@Dynamo> some of those people, regardless of what they have done, still have many friends in the community
[14:42] <@Dynamo> I'm pretty sure the banning of tenchu after cheating years ago came as a bit of a shock to a lot of people, for example
[14:42] <@Dynamo> and many complained
[14:43] <@Dynamo> it wasn't the same as banning your average aow cheater - however unfortunately it has to be the same
[14:43] <Dusk> yeah, but there was irrefutable evidence
[14:43] <@Dynamo> if anybody crosses the line, the punishment should apply regardless of whoever he is
[14:43] <Dusk> it was tenchu, he cheated, therefore he should be banned like anybody else
[14:43] <@Dynamo> yes exactly
[14:43] <Torvald> mhm
[14:43] <@Metal> Dusk: Exactly
[14:44] <@Metal> I'm going to be blunt and honest here
[14:44] <@Ruin> that was something I wanted to ask.  Why was his ban lifted along with shane's ban?
[14:44] <Dusk> i'm seeing a lot of complaints about tenchu being free
[14:44] <@Metal> I banned Decay, and the shit started flinging instantly
[14:44] <Dusk> since he kept on evading and everything
[14:44] <@Metal> (People who are friends with him possibly)
[14:44] <@Dynamo> Metal: me and dusk are probably some of decay's best friends on here (if you may call it friendship) but we both agreed on the ban
[14:44] <@Metal> If this was anyone else (Someone new) Nothing would've been said.
[14:44] <Dusk> yeah i wasn't around when it happened
[14:44] <@Dynamo> that is what I mean by being objective
[14:44] <Dusk> but yeah i do agree with the ban
[14:44] <@Dynamo> I like decay but he took it too far, I told him this myself
[14:45] <@Dynamo> just like how zap for example, while being friends with tenchu, still called him out on his first ban
[14:45] <@Dynamo> on altdeath I think
[14:45] <@Metal> I had no previous problems with decay, just his hostile posting, which I had complaints about via PM before.
[14:45] * iphone (~Catastroph@iPhone.users.zandronum.com) has joined #zastaff
[14:45] <Essay> lol people complained?
[14:45] <@Metal> I did to Decay what I would've done ot anyone else in that situation
[14:45] <Essay> i'm mildly surprised
[14:45] <@Metal> Yeah
[14:45] <@Wartorn> a wild iphone appears
[14:45] <@Metal> I got 3 maybe 4 PM's about it.
[14:46] <@Metal> Things along the lines of "Why do you let him post like that?"
[14:46] <@Metal> And "Why are you biased towards him, why don't you warn him?
[14:46] <@Dynamo> anyway tenchu has not cheated once
[14:46] <@Dynamo> twice I think?
[14:46] <@Metal> Twice.
[14:46] <Dusk> that kind of makes him a repeat offender
[14:46] <@Dynamo> and some of the people he is affiliated with, like dr noob, have also cheated in the past if I'm not mistaken
[14:46] <Dusk> noob cheated once
[14:46] <Essay> and ban evaded
[14:46] <@Metal> I lost respect for tenchu, greatly.
[14:46] <@Dynamo> and cheating is not the only thing, but also disrupting games, ban evasions and starting flamewars
[14:46] <Dusk> noob's ban was just and he served it
[14:47] <Essay> attempting to destroy tournaments
[14:47] <Essay> but the question is
[14:47] <@Dynamo> these people are the example I was talking about earlier, of people who really won't change their attitude since they've been around for years, at least that's what I personally think
[14:47] <@Metal> ...what?
[14:47] <Essay> why do these people get let in again
[14:47] <@Metal> Keeping range bans is not easy...
[14:47] <@Metal> Considering the amount of people who get caught in them.
[14:48] <Essay> does iphone want to tell us the dirty underhanded stuff they do?
[14:48] <Torvald> especially for brazilians
[14:48] <@Metal> ^
[14:48] <@Metal> the worst bans ever.
[14:48] <@Dynamo> range bans have been a huge problem
[14:48] <@TheToxicAvenger> and some people who evade end up with 10,000 rangebans, which ends up in a big mess
[14:48] <Torvald> gotta get that hardware ip
[14:48] <@Dynamo> and that is why some deals had to be made, such as the one for aladdin
[14:48] <@Metal> Yeah
[14:48] <iphone> Well isn't it obvious spak is just manipulating metal to get them unbanned?
[14:48] <iphone> I'd say mission success
[14:48] <Water> IQ dropping
[14:48] <@Metal> That's just starting rumors.
[14:48] <@Ruin> here we go..
[14:49] <iphone> It's so obvious, you were the butt of their jokes years ago, and why are they nice all of a sudden?
[14:49] <@Metal> I'd like to ask that you don't do that.
[14:49] <@Dynamo> alright let's slow down a bit
[14:49] <Torvald> [15:48] <iphone> Well isn't it obvious spak is just manipulating metal to get them unbanned?
[14:49] <Torvald> jiggs up guys
[14:49] <Essay> i'mma step back
[14:49] <Essay> for a sec
[14:49] <Torvald> he found out
[14:49] <@Metal> lol
[14:49] <@Wartorn> lol
[14:49] <@TheToxicAvenger> oh crap
[14:49] <Dusk> huh
[14:49] <Torvald> it was our mastermind plan all along to secretly brain wash the staff
[14:49] <@Wartorn> It's not easy to maintain the banlist, this we've confirmed a millenia of times. We can only hope IPv6 comes soon.
[14:49] <Torvald> with Metal under our control
[14:49] <@Dynamo> this isn't deus ex: zandronum wars
[14:50] <Torvald> we could expand outwards
[14:50] <@Dynamo> the illuminati are not among the staff
[14:50] <@Wartorn> Torvald: And then Wartorn saves the day by calling this huge meeting
[14:50] <@Wartorn> you're fired torvald from staff
[14:50] <Torvald> on our quest to conqur the world
[14:50] <Torvald> f-f-f
[14:50] <Torvald> fffff
[14:50] <Torvald> fired?
[14:50] <Torvald> D:
[14:50] <Dusk> rofl
[14:50] <Puhax> Guys
[14:50] <Puhax> Can we get back on topic
[14:50] <@Dynamo> yo let's go back on track
[14:50] <Puhax> :c
[14:50] <@Wartorn> Right,  back on subject
[14:50] <Dusk> alright guys *bang bang* order in court
[14:50] <@Metal> Yes please
[14:51] <Essay> now
[14:51] <Essay> the word on the block was this
[14:51] <@Dynamo> this isn't about spak, it's about people who have been repeated offenders for years and make our community worse, regardless of whatever clan they belong to
[14:51] <@Dynamo> be it spak, bomf, or whatever
[14:51] <@Dynamo> it's not the clans, it's the people
[14:51] <Torvald> bingo
[14:51] <@Dynamo> anyway yeah Essay can talk
[14:51] <Essay> a certain person gave spak the rcon pass to the gv wdi server
[14:51] <Essay> for the sheer purpose of trolling it
[14:51] <Dusk> gv wdi server?
[14:51] <Essay> and the logs were deleted
[14:51] <Essay> to prevent uncovering this
[14:52] <Essay> yes Dusk
[14:52] <@Wartorn> Oh wow.
[14:52] <@HeavenWraith> huh
[14:52] <Water> when did this happen
[14:52] <iphone> Yes
[14:52] <@Metal> What
[14:52] <iphone> I can confirm this
[14:52] <Water> i assume konar would be flipping out if this happened
[14:52] <Torvald> how would you know that the logs were delted?
[14:52] <Torvald> deleted*
[14:52] <iphone> Uknownjackass's best-ever server, his control panel had the logs mysteriously deleted
[14:52] <@HeavenWraith> when did this happen
[14:52] <Dusk> wait wait now
[14:52] <Dusk> gv
[14:52] <Dusk> or be
[14:52] <Dusk> which is it
[14:52] <Torvald> best ever is not be...
[14:52] <iphone> BE
[14:52] <@Metal> ^^
[14:52] <Torvald> <.>
[14:52] <@Metal> Oh
[14:52] <Essay> oh BE
[14:52] <@Metal> lmao
[14:52] <Essay> my apologies
[14:52] <Torvald> derp
[14:52] <@HeavenWraith> phew
[14:52] <@Wartorn> Yeah you scared a lot of people just now
[14:53] <@Metal> Ban.
[14:53] <Water> lmao
[14:53] <Essay> already banned
[14:53] <Puhax> lmao
[14:53] <Torvald> [15:52] <Torvald> best ever is not be...
[14:53] <Torvald> gv is not be*
[14:53] <Essay> sorry!
[14:53] <@HeavenWraith> that'd be quite a stunt to miss
[14:53] <Torvald> there we go
[14:53] <iphone> Apparently, it was edd and two other individuals.
[14:53] <@Metal> how did they get the rcon password?
[14:53] <Water> unknownjackass told everyone
[14:53] <@Konar6> lmao
[14:53] <Dusk> well heh
[14:53] <@Metal> well thats uh
[14:53] <@HeavenWraith> BE WDI is anarchy
[14:53] <@Konar6> >unknown jackass
[14:53] <@Metal> kinda his own stupidity
[14:54] <Water> yeah he just gives his password out ot almost anyone
[14:54] <@HeavenWraith> not much we can do about it
[14:54] <iphone> Watermelon or Jenova, unknownjackass thinks someone hacked the website, but obviously that's not it.
[14:54] <Water> unknownjackass is one of the few members in the community who is so dumb i think he shouldnt even be allowed to host BE servers, but thats jen's call, not mine
[14:54] <Dusk> hmm really
[14:54] <Dusk> is this worthy of being brought up in a community reform discussion?
[14:54] <@Metal> What Water said.
[14:55] <@Metal> Dusk: What do you mean?
[14:55] <Torvald> HARDWARE IP GUIZE
[14:55] <Dusk> this is be business
[14:55] <@Metal> Ah
[14:55] <Dusk> obviously something up to watermelon and jenova
[14:55] <@Metal> Yeah
[14:55] <Dusk> do we need to concern ourselves with it?
[14:55] <@Dynamo> the staff is not responsible for what people do with their own servers
[14:55] <@Dynamo> but at the same time
[14:55] <@Dynamo> I don't think abusing of a leaked rcon password is a good idea
[14:55] <@Metal> If it gets out of hand it is.
[14:55] <Essay> server names are bannable offenses
[14:55] <@Dynamo> from my understanding these people abused of it, didn't bother to report it to jenova or whatever
[14:55] <@Metal> But I'm not banning BE for one server when Jen or Water can just shut it down.
[14:56] <@Dynamo> and yeah that's not exactly good behaviour
[14:56] <@Dynamo> then again if it was dr_noob I can't say I'm surprised
[14:56] <@Wartorn> Yeah, that's a no-brainer. It's not fair to Jenova if he's not notified before-hand that he's got someone causing problems.
[14:56] <Dusk> to be quite honest
[14:56] <Dusk> if you just say your rcon password out loud you can expect someone to abuse it
[14:56] <Dusk> not just spak
[14:56] <@Dynamo> sure
[14:56] <@Wartorn> Yeah
[14:56] <@Metal> Common sense.
[14:56] <@Dynamo> but that's still not an excuse to do that
[14:56] <@Metal> Has left the building.
[14:56] <@Metal> Or maybe was never there.
[14:57] <iphone> I really, doubt unknown has any friends that are affiliated with spak
[14:57] <@HeavenWraith> ok... can we leave BE matters on the side
[14:57] <Dusk> ^
[14:57] <@Metal> yup
[14:57] <Torvald> yeah
[14:57] <Dusk> yeah please
[14:57] <@Dynamo> moving on
[14:57] <@Wartorn> Yeah, it's for the best right now
[14:57] <Puhax> yes
[14:57] <@Wartorn> What's next.. uhh, hm
[14:57] <@Dynamo> I think there is another concern people have been voicing
[14:57] <@Dynamo> and that is the matter of bans
[14:57] <Torvald> next item on the agender
[14:57] <@Dynamo> you might remember slaerd's first ban
[14:57] <@Metal> Which bans
[14:57] <@Dynamo> <Slaerd>   brb guys, be back in one week
[14:57] <@Dynamo> after cheating
[14:58] <@TheToxicAvenger> Yes, I remember that, mainly because it happened on my 22nd
[14:58] <Dusk> slaerd was bannde for the full year
[14:58] <Dusk> banned*
[14:58] <@Dynamo> apparently some people have the impression that permabans in zandronum don't mean anything
[14:58] <Essay> in zandronum, nobody is banned forever
[14:58] <@TheToxicAvenger> Not necessarily true, Kalfoxis was never unbanned
[14:58] <@Metal> It's hard to
[14:58] <@Razgriz> He was for a moment no?
[14:58] <@Metal> Again, with banning ranges.
[14:58] <@Dynamo> and indeed there are a lot of people who have been supposedly perma banned (wasn't tenchu among those?) who were eventually let go
[14:58] <@Metal> Yeah a couple days.
[14:59] <Dusk> i think that the permaban is something to be saved for the worst of offenders
[14:59] <Dusk> kalfoxis, shadowfox, the likes
[14:59] <@Metal> Like nipaz
[14:59] <Torvald> cheaters?
[14:59] <Dusk> yes
[14:59] <Essay> shadowfox was given 2 extra chances
[14:59] <Dusk> no
[14:59] <Dusk> repeat offenders
[14:59] <Essay> and blew each of them
[14:59] <@Dynamo> wasn't kalfoxis unbanned at some point?
[14:59] <Dusk> multiple cheaters who have been given so many chances it's not even funny
[14:59] <@Dynamo> or my memory super hazy
[14:59] <@Wartorn> Dynamo: I don't think he was ever unbanned from the game
[14:59] <@Dynamo> or is my*
[14:59] <Dusk> permaban means that he's banned for EVER
[14:59] <Essay> the thing is
[14:59] <Dusk> not unbanned in a year
[15:00] <@Wartorn> I know he was given a chance on the forum, but that's to the extent of my knowledge
[15:00] <Dusk> not in 5 years
[15:00] <Dusk> not in a decade
[15:00] <Essay> he claims to have cut a deal with the admins
[15:00] <Essay> and that is troublesome
[15:00] <@Metal> who?
[15:00] <@Wartorn> I keep hearing that but I don't recall any one of us actually doing that
[15:00] <Dusk> for anything lesser than worthy of a permanent ban i think that the ban duration should be well defined
[15:00] <Essay> kalfoxis
[15:00] <@Metal> No.
[15:00] <@Wartorn> There is no deal, never was.
[15:00] <Dusk> even if it's multiple years or so
[15:00] <Essay> not with you
[15:00] <@Metal> There was no deal, I unbanned him in an amnesty or something.
[15:00] <Essay> he singled out cyber
[15:00] <@Metal> oh
[15:00] <@Metal> that
[15:01] <@Metal> Tenchu did the same thing
[15:01] <@Ruin> I didn't agree with it then either.
[15:01] <@Dynamo> and then cheated again :p
[15:01] <@Metal> yeah, right after
[15:01] <@Metal> jerk
[15:01] <@Dynamo> after being forgiven once
[15:01] <Dusk> hmm, yes
[15:01] <@Dynamo> if we have to be objective in this case tenchu isn't any better than kalfoxis
[15:01] <Dusk> why did cyber let him off the hook like that?
[15:01] <@Dynamo> the only difference is he doesn't wear diapers anymore
[15:01] <@Metal> ...oh god
[15:01] <@Metal> dynamo, no.
[15:01] <@Metal> just no.
[15:01] <@Metal> Dusk: I wish I could answer you.
[15:02] <@Dynamo> in any case
[15:02] <@Dynamo> it's not just cheating
[15:02] <@Wartorn> We can't be responsible for everything our predecessor did. We're unable to answer that.
[15:02] <@Dynamo> not to keep bringing up noob, but how many times has he been banned?
[15:02] <@Dynamo> for cheating once, and numerous times for other reasons
[15:02] <Dusk> i think noob is kind of on the edge right now
[15:02] <@Metal> I don't remember, honestly.
[15:02] <@Dynamo> not sure if redshirt was masterbanned but I am pretty sure he was banned from the forums more than once
[15:03] <@Dynamo> other people like mr cheater also come to mind
[15:03] * Jenova (~nope@Jenova.users.zandronum.com) has joined #zastaff
[15:03] <@Metal> Mr cheater is a lot better than he was
[15:03] <@Metal> still kinda...eh
[15:03] <@Metal> but better
[15:03] <@Dynamo> yeah he has improved somewhat
[15:03] <@Dynamo> he wasn't banned for cheating though IIRC
[15:03] <Torvald> I felt bad after my post got trashed, I sorta defaulted to any big post by mr cheater was a troll thread
[15:04] <Torvald> but good for him if he's turning it around
[15:04] <@Dynamo> in any case I think we have to draw a line here
[15:04] <@Dynamo> some minutes ago I said how banning tenchu was not like banning a nobody
[15:04] <@Dynamo> but at the same time
[15:04] <@Dynamo> a nobody might have not played any internet games in the past, and might not really be aware of the consequences
[15:04] <@Dynamo> while someone like tenchu surely knew what he was getting into when he cheated the first time, nevermind the second time
[15:04] <@Dynamo> so not only did he disrupt games
[15:04] <@Dynamo> but he also pretty much antagonized the staff and the community with it
[15:05] <@Dynamo> again, I'm using tenchu as an example here but it could be anybody
[15:05] <@TheToxicAvenger> CHeater's nowhere as bad as he was, but he's still got a ways to go
[15:05] <Essay> are you sure
[15:05] <Dusk> hmm i dunno
[15:05] <Essay> he busted into an odamex server during a scrim to petition jenova to ban me
[15:05] <Essay> for no reason
[15:05] <Dusk> if a random noob decides to pick up an aimbot
[15:05] <Dusk> why does he do that?
[15:06] <Puhax> because he wants people to think he's good?
[15:06] <@Dynamo> I'm not saying he's doing a good thing
[15:06] <@Dynamo> he should be banned
[15:06] <@Wartorn> Continue discussion, I'll be collecting the points we talked about earlier.
[15:06] <Torvald> the most simplist answer is the most logical
[15:06] <@Dynamo> but he might not be aware of the consequences, or the time set for the ban
[15:07] * Grymmoire (~Grymmoire@Grymmoire.staff.zandronum.com) has joined #zastaff
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[15:07] <Dusk> hmm
[15:07] <Dusk> speaking of not knowing the time set for the ban
[15:07] <@Dynamo> in any case the bottom line here is that people who purposefully do this (slaerd is another example though I think I've already mentioned him) simply just want to tease others
[15:07] <@Dynamo> and that's not good in my book
[15:08] <Dusk> i recall there being a problem with the master and it not being able to parse temporary bans?
[15:08] <Water> yeah it was slightly broken for who knows how long
[15:08] <@Metal> It doesn't parse any ban sometimes.
[15:08] <Torvald> I remember that
[15:08] <@Metal> That's a huge issue.
[15:08] <Dusk> no i mean that it can't deal with temporary bans at all
[15:08] <Dusk> like how a normal server can
[15:08] <Dusk> i recall something like that
[15:09] <@Dynamo> well those are technical issues
[15:10] <@Dynamo> surely it's a problem
[15:10] <@Dynamo> but something that we already know needs to be addressed, not something that should be discussed on imo
[15:10] <Dusk> ok
[15:11] <Dusk> furthermore i do think that the master banlist - a link to the actual banlist itself how gv does it - should be available
[15:11] <@Metal> That would be up to Wartorn and Vicious Pariah.
[15:11] <@Metal> I wish we had it back though
[15:11] <@Metal> Updating the thread gets annoying.
[15:11] <Dusk> ok
[15:12] <@Dynamo> anyway regarding server-related stuff
[15:12] <@Wartorn> Dusk: I've been meaning to do this and I've never found the time to do it. It's mostly incompetence on my part that is preventing it from happening at the moment.
[15:12] <Dusk> ah alright
[15:12] <@Dynamo> there is something I've been curious about, since I don't know much on the subject
[15:12] <@Wartorn> I'll try to get it up and going soon.
[15:12] <@Dynamo> from what I've been told the spak city servers or whatever it is use some custom code that has not been released as open-source
[15:13] <@Dynamo> and (again I don't know much about this) I heard that would violate the license
[15:13] <@Dynamo> is that true?
[15:13] <@Wartorn> License enforcements on the master is something I've never heard of before
[15:13] <@Dynamo> Water, you're one of the admins for that right?
[15:13] <Water> yeah
[15:13] <@Dynamo> oh
[15:14] <Essay> word on the block is that a mod asked for the contents and it was denied
[15:14] <@Dynamo> really?
[15:14] <@Dynamo> hmm
[15:14] <Essay> is there any particular reason it is locked?
[15:14] <Essay> a lot of people i've spoken to do not like or trust wbuild
[15:14] <Water> they should go play on another server then
[15:15] <Water> i've never heard any complaints
[15:15] <@Dynamo> that does not answer the question though
[15:15] <Water> only one person complained
[15:15] <iphone> Question, why isn't Wbuild open source? People have a lot of suspicions on that wad and it'd make everyone a lot more calm if the server-side source was released.
[15:15] <@Dynamo> I'm not one to believe in rumors or anything but I'd like to know more about this, yes
[15:15] <Water> what kind of suspicions?
[15:15] <Water> there is nothing malicious in it
[15:15] <Dusk> i've heard that people suspect there's a backdoor
[15:15] <Essay> in a nutshell
[15:16] <Essay> a lot of people think it does more than is claimed
[15:16] <iphone> I can't really take your word for it not being malicious, I mean carnevil said the same thing and it had a backdoor rcon pass.
[15:16] <@Wartorn> Right, the thing with custom server-side builds is that anything can honestly be hidden in it
[15:16] <@Dynamo> that doesn't sound particularly safe yeah
[15:16] <@Wartorn> Which does make it a good talking point about maybe enforcing something about custom server builds, much to my chagrin.
[15:16] <@Dynamo> the "hidden in it" part I mean
[15:17] <Water> then we will have to go the non-obfuscation of acs as well
[15:17] <Water> and apply that to every single mod
[15:17] <Water> since (ways i wont discuss here), you can crash a hard drive with ACS alone
[15:17] <Jenova> wait
[15:17] <Jenova> what happened w/ bluewiz
[15:17] <@Dynamo> I'm not personally aware of any mods that have closed acs...
[15:17] <@Dynamo> if I did then I'd think twice before downloading them
[15:18] <Torvald> zdoom wars?
[15:18] <Water> zdw used to
[15:18] <Torvald> thought that was closed
[15:18] <Torvald> oh
[15:18] <@Dynamo> but the difference is that the mod is something you choose to download, while this code seems to run natively on the server
[15:18] <@Dynamo> at least from my understanding
[15:18] <@Dynamo> so yeah once again I ask, is there any particular reason for it being locked?
[15:18] <@Dynamo> just curious is all
[15:18] <Water> i've been working with alexmax on it, i have no idea how to use git hub
[15:18] <Water> i've used mercurial before
[15:18] <Water> though alex said if i can do a branch off of zandronum's bitbucket it'd be better
[15:18] <@Dynamo> oh so you are working on releasing it as open source
[15:18] <Water> just i have no idea how to
[15:19] <Water> yeah i'm trying ot learn it
[15:19] <@Dynamo> well that's good to know
[15:19] <@Wartorn> The thing is the difference between closed source ACS and closed source binary is that one's a tangible binary and the other isn't capable of doing anything outside of the original binary's scope
[15:19] <Dusk> i could guide you on that
[15:19] <Water> yeah i need people to show me what to do
[15:19] <Water> i tried learning it on my own (hence the delay)
[15:19] <Water> but when exams rolled around i just sort of forgot
[15:19] <Water> since no one has ever complained about it to me except one person
[15:19] <Water> i figured all was well
[15:20] <@Dynamo> who was it
[15:20] <@Dynamo> Antlint?
[15:20] <Water> yeah
[15:20] <Water> i wanted to make everything inside of it optional for wbuild 1.2
[15:20] <Essay> legion said yesterday he isn't really a fan but he just deals with it
[15:20] <Essay> most likely just like everyone else
[15:20] <Water> he gave me the suggestion of making everything optional inside
[15:20] <Essay> except for those like me who refuse to play on it
[15:20] <Essay> or like alexmax who refuses to host it
[15:20] <Water> i did it with the throttling, i intend to do it with the rest
[15:21] <Dusk> anyway i'll brb
[15:21] <Dusk> gotta grab something to eat
[15:21] <Water> he likes vanilla and hates ZD, so i cant see him ever hosting wbuild
[15:21] <@Dynamo> I do remember ZD getting drama for changing the behaviour of the SSG
[15:21] <@Dynamo> or was that another port?
[15:21] <Essay> the main reason is because it is not open sourced and he doesn't know what is in it
[15:22] <Essay> zd and za
[15:22] <Water> eventually one day people will see it's just fine with some code changes
[15:22] <@Wartorn> Essay: That's a very valid concern for a server host to have, as well
[15:22] <Water> though i'll need probably Dusk's or someones hel pto get it open
[15:22] <@Wartorn> I wouldn't like to run something that potentially has a backdoor on my servers.
[15:22] <Water> anyone who doesnt trust it can play on NJ FC+
[15:23] <Essay> spak makes it hard to priv on fc+
[15:23] <Essay> when it uses it's influence to force people to playing on it's own wbuild servers
[15:23] <Water> it doesnt force anyone to play on them
[15:23] <@Wartorn> I think it deals with the population stigma behind it
[15:24] * Legion_ (~Legion@Legion-35137.users.zandronum.com) has joined #zastaff
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[15:25] <@Dynamo> I don't think that's really how it works
[15:25] <@Dynamo> I could say like (or maybe could've said it 3 years ago)
[15:25] <@Wartorn> That's just how I see it
[15:25] <@Dynamo> "you don't like skulltag, go play odamex" "nobody plays on that though"
[15:25] <@Dynamo> (now people do play it apparently but it's the best example I can come up with)
[15:25] * ManiXa (~Legion@pool-108-12-69-205.sangtx.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 300 seconds)
[15:25] <@Dynamo> I am not familiar with the priv scene but from what I've gathered everyone plays on the wbuild server
[15:26] <Water> sadly in this case i cant help that everyone plays on the spak city servers; they like wbuild over the standard vanilla
[15:26] <@Dynamo> I am not blaming you
[15:26] <Water> oh no i understand :)
[15:26] <@Dynamo> what I'm saying here is that just playing on another server isn't as easy as it sounds :p
[15:26] <Water> if it wasnt wbuild, i'm sure people would complain about other things like "Redshirt owns it and is harvesting our IP's" or something
[15:26] <Water> yeah i agree
[15:26] <Jenova> lmao yeah
[15:26] <Water> i have seen NJ FC+ privs happen though (and been part of them)
[15:26] <Jenova> what a joke
[15:27] <Water> as an interesting topic while were here (and since its supposed to be about trolls in teh community)
[15:27] <Jenova> is zandronum licensed under gpl
[15:28] <Water> a majority of people moved to the spak city servers to avoid the trolls/people they dont want to hang around with
[15:28] <@Wartorn> Jenova: it's under sleepycat
[15:28] <Essay> the trolls were spak players
[15:28] <Essay> who turned "nice" to get people playing on their servers
[15:28] <Water> back then i'm sure they were, right now everything functions within the spak servers
[15:28] <Jenova> compatible with the gpl
[15:29] <@Wartorn> Yeah
[15:29] <Jenova> I thought you only had to show your source w/ gpl if you are profiting off of your product
[15:29] <Jenova> and I don't think watermelon is
[15:29] <Water> so far no one in spak turned nice for the servers, i've seen redshirt/others ban people and say not the nicest things to others
[15:29] <@Konar6> you have to release the source if you distribute the thing
[15:29] * Antlint (~Antlint@SoulSucka.users.zandronum.com) has joined #zastaff
[15:29] <@Konar6> hosting a server isn't the same as distributing it
[15:29] <Essay> spak players are nice only to get what they want
[15:29] <Antlint> Sorry, power outage. I probably missed out a lot.
[15:30] <Essay> i've seen that for the past 3 1/2 years
[15:30] <Water> i think most people in humanity fall under that umbrella (sadly)
[15:30] <Antlint> Konar6 it can be
[15:30] <Essay> i'd also like to state spak turned me into the hostile person i am today
[15:30] <Essay> because they are the biggest assholes i've ever met
[15:31] <Jenova> is this an anti spak thing
[15:31] <Torvald> it's certainly going that direction
[15:32] <Essay> not necessarily
[15:32] <Jenova> people in spak are pretty dumb, but if you dont like them just dont associate yourselves with them
[15:32] <Jenova> i dont think they go out of their way to make your life miserable
[15:32] <Essay> but certainly they generate a fair amount of prolems
[15:32] <Essay> yes, they do
[15:32] <Essay> in scrims
[15:32] <Essay> in pub servers
[15:32] <Essay> in tournaments
[15:32] <Essay> on the forums
[15:33] <Jenova> what do they do
[15:33] <@TheToxicAvenger> Some of Spak, like Edd, I would agree with you on.
[15:33] <iphone> Oh yeah, I remember on irc if they didn't like someone they'd log into multitudes just to spam your chat.
[15:33] <@TheToxicAvenger> but not all of it
[15:33] <@Dynamo> that's... not cool
[15:33] <Essay> you were there in the odamex server when spak faked its way into AX and bungled a scrim
[15:33] <Essay> this has also been done in st
[15:33] <Essay> taking over the server
[15:34] <iphone> Spak even crashed that idl match with tosen
[15:34] <Water> that was tosen and didnt have anything to do with the spak entity
[15:34] <Water> and is on another port
[15:34] <Essay> in pub servers i've had them chase me in pub servers just to "troll" me
[15:34] <Torvald> [16:32] <Essay> but certainly they generate a fair amount of prolems
[15:34] <Torvald> [16:32] <Essay> in pub servers
[15:34] <Water> is there anything recent that redshirt/edd has done?
[15:34] <Torvald> thats why hydra made this
[15:34] <Torvald> http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1618
[15:34] <LinkBot> Spak City Private Style Public
[15:34] <iphone> I feel like that was just for attention
[15:34] <Antlint> 19:33:28  <Essay>	you were there in the odamex server when spak faked its way into AX and bungled a scrim
[15:34] <Antlint> 19:33:34  <Essay>	this has also been done in st
[15:34] <Essay> it was
[15:34] <Antlint> 19:33:40  <Essay>	taking over the server
[15:34] <Antlint> I can attest to this.
[15:35] <Essay> irc, they circumvent bans just to harass you
[15:35] <@Razgriz> I thought this was originally about wbuild not being open source?
[15:35] <Essay> we are past that
[15:35] <Dusk> back
[15:35] <Essay> in tournaments
[15:35] <Water> were just going off onto another port right now that has nothing to do with zandro
[15:35] <@Razgriz> oh
[15:35] <@Wartorn> Razgriz: It does seem like that is over. Water has said he'll attempt to open the source.
[15:35] <Essay> spak delibrately sabotaged my 2v2 tdm tournament
[15:35] <Essay> or tried
[15:35] <@Dynamo> well if there are issues they should be discussed, just alert me if anything goes wrong, I'm afk-ish right now
[15:35] <@Razgriz> Sorry I just came back and I thought it was still being talked about
[15:35] <@Wartorn> So I think we should shift subjects for the time being.
[15:35] <Essay> by vote kicking players during game play
[15:35] <@Razgriz> my bad
[15:35] <Water> if anyone is caught doing that today
[15:36] <Water> with a demo
[15:36] <Water> then i believe they should be given a just punishment
[15:36] <iphone> Challenge accepted.
[15:36] <Torvald> [16:35] <@Wartorn> So I think we should shift subjects for the time being.
[15:36] <Torvald> second
[15:36] <@Wartorn> It seems that it's fairly apparent that Spak is problematic.
[15:36] <Essay> these people have all been banned multiple times
[15:36] <Essay> yet they keep coming back
[15:36] <@Wartorn> So I think we do need to deal with it in some fashion, yes.
[15:36] <Essay> anyway
[15:37] <Essay> what's next up to look at
[15:37] <@Wartorn> Right, what else.. uh Dusk, didn't you have something you wanted to bring up earlier?
[15:37] <Dusk> yus
[15:37] <Water> here's an interesting set of discussion that i believe should be taken care of
[15:37] <Water> is dealing with people who troll servers
[15:37] <Water> whether it be priv, mod, or whatever
[15:37] <Dusk> remember back when zandronum was new.. or was it even when zandronum was around
[15:37] <Water> the line really needs to be drawn
[15:38] <Water> like TKing on WDI
[15:38] <Dusk> but back then we had attempts at getting games going
[15:38] <@Wartorn> Water: Right, we'll get to that in a second
[15:38] <Water> sounds good
[15:38] <@Wartorn> Dusk: Yeah that is true
[15:38] <Dusk> there was a clear problem: mass highlighting #Zandronum for games annoyed people
[15:38] <Dusk> and we had plans for a game announcer service which went down for some reason (and wasn't exactly intuitive anyway)
[15:38] <Dusk> i believe we should have a way to organize public games to get stuff going
[15:38] <@TheToxicAvenger> First I recall hearing about that
[15:39] <@TheToxicAvenger> @ the announcer thing
[15:39] <Antlint> Maybe do a global notice thing? It was done before, back on ST's network.
[15:39] <Dusk> velocity x pub ctf went well and proved that pub can happen
[15:39] <@Wartorn> Hm
[15:39] <@Wartorn> Konar6, is it feasible to opt out of global notices
[15:39] <@Razgriz> there was also a pub idl2012 and that went well for a bit
[15:39] <Dusk> i think the staff should work towards getting games going
[15:39] <@Konar6> Wartorn: certainly
[15:39] <@TheToxicAvenger> Global messages could work, but, for every pub game?
[15:39] <@Wartorn> I don't see why not
[15:39] <Dusk> sure why not
[15:39] <@TheToxicAvenger> Especially when they can come up without warning
[15:39] <@Wartorn> #zan isn't being used often
[15:39] <Torvald> well I went out of my way to start pub with Vanessa whenever possible
[15:40] <Torvald> lead to a 7 day consecutive pub steak
[15:40] <@Wartorn> And we'll make sure that in our notices we tell people how to disable them
[15:40] <Torvald> sometimes 3 pubs in one day
[15:40] <Water> i get bot PM's from ZD's bot every few hours, i dont see why that'd be a problem
[15:40] <Torvald> that would be a nice feature
[15:40] <Water> and in the PM just provide a link that allows people to opt out of it
[15:40] <@Konar6> there could be a separate service bot or something, and whoever wouldn't want to receive such memos could ignore it
[15:40] <Dusk> hmm yes, automatic public game announcement
[15:40] <@Wartorn> Yeah
[15:40] <Dusk> but i don't think such a bot like in zdaemon would work here
[15:41] <Dusk> i think, maybe there could be a game channel #zagames or whatever the hell
[15:41] <@Konar6> why not?
[15:41] <Dusk> and have such a bot idle there
[15:41] <Water> i was thinking of doing it for duels, but people said that zd is more competitive and that it'd just be a waste of time o nthe zandro channel
[15:41] <iphone> Why is zandronums homepage not displaying the latest FNF/SNS, btw?
[15:41] <Dusk> and notice the channel when games go up?
[15:41] <Torvald> actually I like the notion of #zagames
[15:41] <Dusk> fnf/sns are good
[15:41] <Dusk> but they're just weekly highlights
[15:41] <Dusk> we need stuff going on for the rest of the week too
[15:41] <@Wartorn> iphone: It's unfortunately not an automated process
[15:42] <@Wartorn> It was something I intended to have automated but I never got around to it
[15:42] <@Wartorn> The appropriate header has to be modified each time, and I usually have VP do it but I think he forgets every so often
[15:42] <@Wartorn> considering he's in charge and he owns the site portion of things too
[15:42] <@TheToxicAvenger> A separate channel could definitely work
[15:43] <Dusk> i could probably attempt coding such an irc bot
[15:43] <@Wartorn> That would handle automation on the IRC part of things
[15:43] <@Konar6> and what would it do exactly?
[15:44] <Dusk> monitor a bunch of selected server on the master and notify the channel when games get going
[15:44] <Dusk> a bit like zd
[15:44] <@Konar6> just a masshighlight bot? Like combinebob's masshighlighting bot?
[15:44] <Antlint> I still prefer global notices.
[15:44] <@Konar6> and how would you feed it the current list of servers to watch?
[15:44] <@Konar6> and which servers?
[15:44] <Antlint> More effective and less annoying
[15:44] <@Konar6> you know, not all servers are suitable
[15:44] <Dusk> re which servers: public ctf/dm/etc servers
[15:45] <Dusk> the list would be stored in a configuration file
[15:45] <Dusk> if new servers pop up, the list can always be modified
[15:45] <@Konar6> like unknown jackass servers :v
[15:46] <Dusk> pff
[15:46] <@Konar6> that concept sounds complicated
[15:46] <Dusk> eh not really imo
[15:46] <@Wartorn> Not to Dusk!
[15:46] <@Konar6> we could use something simpler
[15:46] <@Konar6> oh right
[15:48] <Dusk> i mean
[15:48] <@Metal> Water: I.E Tosen?
[15:48] <@Metal> Derp, was scrolled up
[15:48] <@Metal> "[17:37] <Water> here's an interesting set of discussion that i believe should be taken care of
[15:48] <@Metal> [17:37] <Water> is dealing with people who troll servers"
[15:48] <Dusk> it's just that game starts up on server x, bot notifies #zagames that x players are on server x oslt
[15:48] <@Metal> was replying to that
[15:48] <Water> yeah i believe he got banned
[15:48] <Water> or mastered for that
[15:48] <@Metal> yes
[15:48] <Water> i think hes gone for a long time, possibly forever
[15:48] <Dusk> (good riddance)
[15:48] <@Metal> I had got a complaint that it wasn't enough to warrant a ban.
[15:49] <Water> i think if someone tries to evade a ban from a server cluster
[15:49] <Dusk> the amount of trolling he did in-game i believe does warrant it
[15:49] <@TheToxicAvenger> Tosen and Ral are both mastered for quite some time
[15:49] <Water> it should be master-bannable, even though its sort of a logical error because they're IP evading and the mechanism of banning is IP basd
[15:49] <Dusk> is there a set length for their bans?
[15:49] <Torvald> Honestly, his trolling was the funniest shit I've seen in a long time, but he earned his ban.
[15:49] <Torvald> surprised it didn't happen sooner
[15:50] <@Konar6> Dusk: bans can be removed any time :p
[15:50] <Dusk> yeah i know, i think it's a good idea to have set durations for bans
[15:50] <Dusk> indefinite doesn't really tell much
[15:50] <@TheToxicAvenger> For Ral, I'd say 6 months minimum on the base ban, meaning eligible for release in May
[15:50] <@TheToxicAvenger> but then add a month for each evasion
[15:50] <@TheToxicAvenger> so that's 3 extra months
[15:50] <Torvald> I thought it was 3 months for evasion?
[15:50] <Water> why would each evasion only add a month?
[15:50] <@TheToxicAvenger> Is it?
[15:51] <@Metal> yes
[15:51] <@TheToxicAvenger> That would be 9 more months then
[15:51] <Water> it sounds lenient for evasion (though thats just my opinion)
[15:51] <@TheToxicAvenger> so.....1 year 3 months his current sentence is
[15:51] <@TheToxicAvenger> and he was banned December 3rd
[15:51] <Dusk> let it be that way, then
[15:51] <@Konar6> if each evasion added 3 months, ten would be banned till 2015
[15:51] <Dusk> that sets it to february 2014
[15:51] <@TheToxicAvenger> In fact that reminds me I gotta update my shit
[15:51] <iphone> same with edd
[15:51] <Dusk> no, march
[15:51] <@Metal> rofl konar
[15:52] <Dusk> TheToiletAvenger
[15:52] <@TheToxicAvenger> Dusk: he was banned in December, it would be March if he was banned this month....or am I losing my ability to count
[15:52] <@Metal> iphone: Edd only evaded once that I know of.
[15:52] <Dusk> 1 year 3 months since december 2012 is march 2014
[15:52] <@TheToxicAvenger> I think Edd had a few entries
[15:52] <@TheToxicAvenger> 5 I think
[15:52] <@Metal> Yeah extra ranges
[15:52] <@Metal> but not evasions
[15:54] <@Konar6> Reck was caught evading on various servers countless times... so you can't have such sentences set in stone as it seems
[15:54] <@Konar6> there may be reasons to not go by that
[15:54] <iphone> yeah reck definetly ban evaded atleast once
[15:54] <@Metal> More than once
[15:54] <Jenova> rofl
[15:54] <@Konar6> it's all case by case
[15:54] <@Metal> But his IP range was retarded
[15:54] <Jenova> reck ban evaded like 20 times and didnt give a shit
[15:55] <@Metal> If we banned all his ranges like 189.180.*.* etc
[15:55] <@Metal> We woulld've banned mexico
[15:55] <Dusk> (is that a bad thing? :V)
[15:55] <Jenova> do it
[15:55] <@Metal> lol
[15:55] <iphone> That's not a problem
[15:55] <@Metal> so 189.*.*.*
[15:55] <@Metal> Got it
[15:55] <@Konar6> actually not. Reck is still banned on GV and there's still a lot of mexicans, lol
[15:55] <@TheToxicAvenger> We had like a bunch of people caught in Reck's ranges IIRC
[15:55] <@Metal> Yeah but how many get caught in his range?
[15:55] <@Konar6> 2-3
[15:55] <iphone> Like 90% of all the cheaters are from mexico anyways
[15:56] <@TheToxicAvenger> Drake was British IIRC
[15:56] <Dusk> in all seriousness they're not
[15:56] <@TheToxicAvenger> Ironicuz is Finnish
[15:56] <@Konar6> they used to be some time
[15:56] <@TheToxicAvenger> ....and so on
[15:56] <Dusk> i recall russia was way higher up in the cheater list than mexico
[15:56] <@Konar6> esp. on ZD
[15:56] <Dusk> cheater tally*
[15:56] <@Konar6> mexico had a really bad cheater reputation on ZD one time
[15:57] <@Metal> yeah
[15:57] <@Konar6> + GV has a identity based whitelisting system so there is no "need" to unban Reck for those 3 people caught in his bans
[15:57] <@Metal> Russia recently got bad, mexico started it though :P
[15:57] <@TheToxicAvenger> What you have going on GV is actually pretty genius
[15:57] <Dusk> i think the master could use said identity based whitelisting
[15:58] <@Konar6> ^
[15:58] <@TheToxicAvenger> what with the personal passwords thing and such
[15:58] <Dusk> wasn't the priv password thing my idea and doing :v
[15:58] <Dusk> well i dunno was it my idea
[15:58] <Water> i wanted to see an account list on the master
[15:58] <@Konar6> I made quite a few improvements for administration and players
[15:59] <@Wartorn> Water: Me too, unfortunately vortexcortex drops in and out at random
[15:59] <@Konar6> I thought the concept was a combined idea of ours
[15:59] * ManiXa (~Legion@pool-108-12-69-205.sangtx.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #zastaff
[16:00] <@TheToxicAvenger> Vortex is real super sand
[16:01] <@Wartorn> I can understand he's busy with someone of his knowledge though
[16:01] <@Wartorn> Anyway, time to eat soooo brb in a few
[16:04] * @Legion_ (~Legion@Legion-35137.users.zandronum.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 300 seconds)
[16:07] * iphone (~Catastroph@iPhone.users.zandronum.com) has left #zastaff ("Leaving")
[16:17] <@Konar6> a big shame is also Tihan's vanishing
[16:17] <@Metal> Yeah that was weird
[16:17] <@Konar6> he's proven to be a knowledgeable coder and Torr Samaho's asset
[16:17] <Dusk> tihan got busy with life
[16:17] <Dusk> basically he got a job
[16:17] <Dusk> or hum rather a different assignment
[16:17] <@Metal> ah, that'll do it
[16:17] <Dusk> well real life in any ase
[16:17] <Dusk> case*
[16:19] <@Konar6> he's been working on IPv6 support, unlagged for monsters, kind of unlagged for projectiles...
[16:22] * Zap610_ (Mibbit@c-24-63-155-105.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) has joined #zastaff
[16:24] <Antlint> I miss Tihan
[16:24] <@Wartorn> oh hi zap
[16:24] * Combinebobnt (~Combinebob@Combinebobnt.users.zandronum.com) Quit ("Quitting")
[16:24] <Zap610_> Hi I need to transfer my IRC stuff on this new laptop sometime
[16:24] <Zap610_> So yeah
[16:24] <Zap610_> Using shitty netirc
[16:24] <@Wartorn> that's unfortunate
[16:25] <@Wartorn> today's conversation was actually really productive today
[16:25] <Zap610_> Shit I missed it
[16:25] <Zap610_> I literally just saw your PM
[16:25] <@Wartorn> Actually it should still be going on
[16:25] <Zap610_> oh good
[16:25] <@Wartorn> But I think we exhausted most of our talking points
[16:25] <@Wartorn> Essay Antlint Dusk anybody does anyone have anything to talk about
[16:25] <Jenova> yes
[16:25] <Dusk> ah hmm
[16:25] <Jenova> lets ban anyone who isn't me
[16:25] <Dusk> rofl
[16:26] <Zap610_> Who told Jen about my idea to ban anyone who isn't him
[16:26] <Jenova> I did
[16:26] <Disguise> That guy V
[16:26] <Zap610_> ass
[16:27] <Jenova> I heard unknownjackass was causing some problems or something
[16:27] <@Wartorn> Yeah about that, hang on I'll paste what was said earlier
[16:28] <@Wartorn> It was something about logs getting deleted and him just handing out his rcon password to basically anybody or something
[16:30] <Jenova> yeah he is pretty dumb
[16:30] <Zap610_> Well as long as we are more or less here I want to say that I'll be working on getting back into things and sucking less
[16:31] <@Wartorn> http://pastebin.com/CnWCKZJc Jenova
[16:31] <LinkBot> [14:51] <Essay> now [14:51] <Essay> the word on the block was this [14:51] <@D - Pastebin.com
[16:31] <Jenova> thanks
[16:32] <Jenova> see the shitty thing is
[16:32] <Jenova> because of how the banlist works
[16:32] <Jenova> I couldn't even ban people from my server clusters
[16:33] <@Wartorn> a technical limitation huh
[16:34] <Jenova> pretty much
[16:34] <Jenova> so they'd have to do something bad that would warrant a master ban
[16:34] <@Konar6> wasn't that banlist problem fixed
[16:35] <Jenova> not that
[16:35] <Jenova> but each server has it's own banlist
[16:35] <Jenova> and zandronum doesn't support more than one banlist
[16:35] <@Konar6> huh?
[16:35] <@Konar6> how come that I have one banlist for all 100+ servers in 3 locations?
[16:35] <Jenova> idk you tell me
[16:36] <@Konar6> well, the sharing between locations is my creation, but you can have shared banlist for all servers
[16:36] <@Konar6> just point sv_banfile to the same file and that's it
[16:36] <Jenova> of course but if every server has the exact same banlist
[16:36] <Jenova> and is hosted by 60 different people
[16:36] <Jenova> you can easily see how that would not work
[16:37] <@Konar6> oh, then if one person is hosting server for trolling purposes, or the person is unknown jackass (which implies the mentioned), ban him from hosting servers
[16:37] <Jenova> rofl
[16:37] <Jenova> probably the best idea
[16:38] <@Konar6> I mean in the hosting bot itself, not in the servers
[16:38] <Jenova> yeah
[16:38] <@Konar6> everything can be solved
[16:38] <Jenova> but I meant more for griefers I guess
[16:38] <Jenova> like someone brought up spak earlier
[16:38] <Jenova> although I guess that really isn't a problem at the moment
[16:39] <@Konar6> and maybe you could have the banlist for BE admin-only, ie. it wouldn't be editable by randoms
[16:39] <@Konar6> Oblacek does it a similar way AFAIK
[16:40] <Jenova> I dunno
[16:40] <Jenova> I guess I don't really mind it being self moderated anyways
[16:40] <Jenova> means I don't have to do anything
[16:40] <@Konar6> but you get the shit when something happens
[16:40] <@Konar6> like this
[16:41] <@Konar6> and you should have a way to prevent that
[16:41] <Jenova> well I figure people will just ban others they dont want playing on their servers

- and then everything went silent from there -