[09:23:52] <tretter> I would RP, but I have to go to Pre-Cal here in a few minutes
[09:23:54] * ShotgunFiend sits down and does the guest gm shit
[09:23:59] * Hankolijo has quit (Quit: Hankolijo)
[09:24:30] <ShotgunFiend> I've got... *time check* ... Seven hours to blow.
[09:24:58] <Gara> I've got more.
[09:25:10] <ShotgunFiend> Well I missed school today, so.
[09:25:14] <Gara> At some point, I want to try to make a EP chracter, but until then
[09:25:18] <Roget> lol
[09:25:18] <ShotgunFiend> Technically I have the rest of the day.
[09:25:31] <ShotgunFiend> And then the entire weekend.
[09:25:39] <Gara> Yeah.
[09:25:45] <ShotgunFiend> :3
[09:25:51] * ShotgunFiend pokes Gara's nose
[09:26:10] <Gara> Pfft.
[09:27:08] * Balthazaar decides to rp a concussion
[09:28:06] <ShotgunFiend> What was the roll? 12v5?
[09:28:49] <lurkd> yes
[09:28:59] <ShotgunFiend> A theoretical 2 body hit
[09:29:01] <ShotgunFiend> hum
[09:29:06] <ShotgunFiend> Concussion is viable.
[09:29:30] * E4D (Mibbit@synIRC-A561D407.pools.static.spcsdns.net) has joined
[09:29:38] <E4D> A lot of this feels like it might be backlash from Alivi's "megarun"
[09:29:39] * tretter has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[09:29:53] <E4D> Stupid Mibbit.
[09:29:55] <Balthazaar> I hate concussions
[09:30:40] * Echo has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[09:31:04] * E4D is now known as Echo
[09:32:45] * ShotgunFiend_ (~chatzilla@synIRC-65ED5576.hsd1.al.comcast.net) has joined
[09:32:57] * ShotgunFiend has quit (NickServ (GHOST command used by ShotgunFiend_))
[09:32:58] * ShotgunFiend_ is now known as ShotgunFiend
[09:33:06] <ShotgunFiend> That's nice.
[09:33:21] <Gara> Having connection fun?
[09:33:23] * ShotgunFiend randomly dc's with a full connection
[09:33:57] <ShotgunFiend> yup.
[09:34:20] <ShotgunFiend> MarkL Roll remaining body not to vomit on Jason. DC 5. :3
[09:34:24] <ShotgunFiend> Mark*
[09:35:19] <Roget> Echo: some of it is stemming from observations made during her run, some is just stuff we see everyday in the game
[09:35:52] <Gara> Lighter tone does not, should not, and will not make up for poor writing.
[09:35:56] <Balthazaar> I'll do it SF
[09:36:32] <Echo> Yeah, the RP as a whole doesn't really feel "very realistic and almost Grimdark"
[09:36:46] <Echo> I mean, just my perspective, being around for a month and all.
[09:37:15] <ShotgunFiend> Balth. You're at a theoretical - 2 here
[09:37:18] <ShotgunFiend> :P
[09:37:18] <Balthazaar> .ch fine, concussion
[09:37:18] <Glacon> Balthazaar: fine
[09:37:22] <PaulS_laptop> I'm in agreement with echo
[09:37:24] <PaulS_laptop> and gara
[09:37:25] <Echo> It's drifted far away from where it started, in a good way, but I wouldn't even quite call it like anywhere close to early Active Duty, tonally
[09:37:53] <Echo> You guys have turned it into something that even *I* can appreciate; not slamming on y'all, just saying.
[09:38:08] <PaulS_laptop> Roget: a lot of it feels, to me, like it's going to be used to handwave railroading characters into unbelieveable actions and circumstances.
[09:38:10] <lurkd> lol
[09:38:11] <Echo> Stuff like this?
[09:38:12] <Echo> > This means that realism will take a back-seat to some more goofy, magical, or unexplainable things.
[09:38:16] <Echo> Like it already does?
[09:38:20] <Echo> By very nature of the RP?
[09:38:29] <Echo> > In addition, it means that details that would mean quite a bit in real life will not be considered here.
[09:38:33] <Echo> Like it already does?
[09:38:37] <Echo> By very nature of the RP?
[09:38:47] <Gara> Of RP in general, to be honest.
[09:39:10] <Echo> > Starting from... now, actually, we aren't really going to be considering different guns all that much in deciding rolls, beyond the result of the roll itself
[09:39:17] <Echo> Like it already is?
[09:39:25] <Roget> This is going back to the tone we've had historically, before the big one
[09:39:41] <PaulS_laptop> I don't think it's transitioned to /realism/. I think it's transitioning to /consistency/. Characters and players expecting things to make sense in universe should never take a back seat to "lolGM wants you to push button, so you push button". Which is what I feel is going to happen.
[09:39:56] <Roget> Echo I can discuss this better when not on my phone
[09:39:56] <Gara> I've never seen that, and didn't we have the Big One for a /reason/
[09:40:10] <Roget> PaulS_laptop not at all
[09:40:19] <Roget> this isnt an excuse for fiat
[09:40:29] <PaulS_laptop> Roget: it may not be the intent, but it's what I fear is likely to happen
[09:40:37] <Gara> Fiat = / = railroading. Just almost. And it happens anyway.
[09:40:46] * Aphex_ has quit (Connection reset by peer)
[09:40:48] <Gara> that won't be a change, Paul.
[09:41:00] <PaulS_laptop> Gara: I mean moreso
[09:41:07] <Gara> Balthazaar, IC, it's the first.
[09:41:39] <Balthazaar> Gara, I thought it was the second
[09:41:46] <Gara> Nope.
[09:41:54] <Gara> Timezones!
[09:42:00] <Echo> It's the first in Canadaland
[09:42:01] <Balthazaar> Fucking timezones
[09:42:09] <PaulS_laptop> roget: I can groove on "things take a backseat to fun". But the question is "who's fun"
[09:42:14] * WalrusKing (~WalrusKin@E5A806C.472B232F.E9BF1425.IP) has joined
[09:42:16] <Roget> The main thing here is moving the game to something both the GM team and players can enjoy
[09:42:26] <WalrusKing> morning
[09:42:51] <ShotgunFiend> Howdy Walrus
[09:43:20] <Roget> PaulS_laptop some people might not like it, but we're going to be taking feedback to be as inclusive as possible.
[09:43:25] <PaulS_laptop> roget: I'm just worried it will rapidly become something the players won't enjoy, because of actively encouraging the same internal inconsistencies that people  have beeen trying to undo.
[09:44:03] <WalrusKing> what we talkin bout
[09:44:13] <ShotgunFiend> yer mum
[09:44:24] <ShotgunFiend> No, the announcement up in the ropic.
[09:44:28] <ShotgunFiend> topic*
[09:44:29] <lurkd> i have to leave for an hour or two, bye
[09:44:34] <Roget> If people don't like what direction we take, we'll go back and try something else
[09:44:45] <ShotgunFiend> Bai Lurkd
[09:44:48] <Roget> We wont force something that doesnt work
[09:44:58] * lurkd has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[09:45:00] <Balthazaar> bye
[09:45:26] <WalrusKing> ah
[09:45:28] <WalrusKing> i see it
[09:45:43] <WalrusKing> interesting
[09:46:04] * Hankolijo (Mibbit@D0499281.4B0690A1.42AADBFC.IP) has joined
[09:46:05] <Hankolijo> Hai gaiz
[09:46:14] <ShotgunFiend> Hi
[09:46:14] <WalrusKing> didn't think you'd swing the rp back in that direction
[09:46:19] <Hankolijo> Peeps in rec?
[09:46:23] <ShotgunFiend> mhm
[09:46:23] <Roget> This is primarily about making things more actively interesting without totally abandoning the game changes we've had over the past year
[09:46:41] <Echo> What's the thing about guns in the oaste mean?
[09:46:45] <Hankolijo> Good. Valters has been napping there, cause i was lazy to have him exit the room.
[09:46:46] <Echo> Isn't that how combat already works?
[09:46:51] <Roget> Interesting for both the players to play and GMs to Gm
[09:47:03] <Echo> No one gets a bonus for having an XD9 over a Glock 19, or some such
[09:47:04] <PaulS_laptop> I'm just worried it will be used to pass off bad writing and tedious, unwinnable runs
[09:47:12] <Echo> It's a gun. You roll and it does damage from the load chart.
[09:47:27] <PaulS_laptop> (like the current hayden arc, which we can't actually /do/ anthing in)
[09:47:36] <Roget> PaulS_laptop we're not using this to be lazy
[09:48:14] <PaulS_laptop> Roget: I'm not saying it's being written for that. I'm saying that I'm worried it will turn into that.
[09:48:34] <Roget> Like I said: we listen to player feedback
[09:49:00] <Roget> we wont keep things in a shitty way if you tell us its not fun
[09:49:05] <Echo> "We just think it'd be lulzy."
[09:49:09] <Echo> This feels like...
[09:49:12] <Echo> That just bodes ill
[09:49:22] <Echo> "One of the immediate changes is that the security director is gonna get an infusion of wackiness."
[09:49:33] <Echo> Bonkers! Totally nuts! It's Bonkers!
[09:50:03] <WalrusKing> While I understand where this decision is coming from, im a little worried that this reflects a lack of intrinsic direction in the rp
[09:50:25] <Echo> Cuz yeah, it makes perfect sense for the person responsible for the lives and safety of everyone on the site to be a bunny ears lawyer wackadoodle.
[09:50:56] <PaulS_laptop> see, that's my concern. That things won't make an sense, and it'll kill player fun. I can already say that it will kill this player's fun.
[09:51:02] <Gara> Echo, we're leading sense behind, aren't we? Isn't that he whole point?
[09:52:47] * jedifan (~chatzilla@9DC49451.65845607.C44E8BF2.IP) has joined
[09:53:55] * Roget has quit (Quit: have to take a test now! bye)
[09:54:45] <PaulS_laptop> I have a bad feeling about this
[09:55:14] <WalrusKing> I can understand why this decision has happened
[09:55:23] <WalrusKing> and it could be a good idea
[09:55:48] <WalrusKing> but it is most certainly a bad one if the gm's dont have an internally consistent idea about the average tone and content of the thing
[09:55:53] <ShotgunFiend> The only way I can see this going really badly is if the players decide they just don't want to roll with it for no great reasons.
[09:56:10] <PaulS_laptop> I don't want to roll with it, because it's going to bring more hayden type shit
[09:56:19] <PaulS_laptop> and more "lol pusht he button"
[09:56:22] <Gara> Walrus: But, a lack of consistant tone makes a lot of sense.
[09:56:28] <Gara> Because, ya know
[09:56:30] <Gara> Pool
[09:56:31] <WalrusKing> yeah
[09:56:35] <Gara> Not everything is happy
[09:56:37] <WalrusKing> but it makes playing a shittier experience
[09:56:46] <Gara> Not everything is insane evil monster
[09:56:56] <WalrusKing> and even then
[09:56:57] <PaulS_laptop> ShotgunFiend: I see it as playing out as being used as an excuse for poor writing, and unworkable/nonexistant plot
[09:57:00] <WalrusKing> you CAN roll like that
[09:57:03] <Gara> No, uh, it doesn't. Sorry? I love the tone dissonance. You never know what it's going to go.
[09:57:15] <WalrusKing> but you have to have an idea of what the core of the thing is
[09:57:27] <PaulS_laptop> I don't mind the tone dissonance. But I DO mind poor writing
[09:57:34] <PaulS_laptop> and poor character development
[09:57:53] <ShotgunFiend> PaulS, do you think, simply because they GM/Admin team has decided to roll back the seriousness alittle that our completely competent GMs are just going to instantly succumb to idiocy?
[09:58:13] <Echo> Yes. Because it happens even now.
[09:58:25] <Gara> That carries a few implications on what causes that, Shotgun.
[09:58:25] <WalrusKing> i dont know
[09:58:41] <WalrusKing> I think we ought to tread carefully here
[09:58:43] <ShotgunFiend> Well, bear with me for a second.
[09:58:44] <WalrusKing> this isnt undoable
[09:59:02] <WalrusKing> but if handled poorly it could fuck alot of shit up
[09:59:08] <Echo> Alivi had more railroad than CSX, Union Pacific, and BNSF combined in the megarun
[09:59:16] <Echo> And she couldn't do it any other way

[09:59:22] <Echo> That's not RP

[09:59:35] <Echo> That's listening to someone lecture at you and tell you "no" until you press the right button

[09:59:57] <PaulS_laptop> ShotgunFiend: After seeing the Hayden arc, by a normally really good GM...yes.

[10:00:04] <ShotgunFiend> I don't really have experience with RPs in specific, but I /do/ have experience with overhauling systems. (I was an admin for a couple years in a constantly growing and developing TF2 community) And from that experience, I can tell you a couple things:

[10:00:15] <Echo> ...

[10:00:22] <ShotgunFiend> Bear with me.

[10:00:30] <Gara> I... alright, I'll run with you on this one.

[10:00:32] <ShotgunFiend> .They share a lot of similarities in structure.

[10:00:42] * Soulless|Dreamin has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)

[10:00:54] <PaulS_laptop> gara, echo and I have years of IRC RP, in a pretty wide range of genres.

[10:01:08] <PaulS_laptop> how do they share similarities in structure?

[10:01:35] <Echo> Yeah, this is tabletop/roleplay

[10:01:50] <Echo> Coordinating an FPS game community is pretty...

[10:01:54] <ShotgunFiend> Because you have a system.

[10:01:55] <Echo> far removed

[10:01:58] <ShotgunFiend> You have the players.

[10:02:15] <ShotgunFiend> You have the Junior Admins (GMs)

[10:02:15] <Gara> You could say an MMORPG is like an IRC RP

[10:02:24] <ShotgunFiend> And you have the Admins (Admins)

[10:02:26] <Gara> With thtat logic.

[10:02:29] <Echo> Cars and airplanes both have wheels and engines, too

[10:02:47] <Echo> A table knife and a scalpel both have cutting edges.

[10:02:54] <PaulS_laptop> ShotgunFiend: except that they're doing runs here, and not in a TF2 community. And that player fun should be important.

[10:02:56] <Echo> Plants and animals both have cells and breathe.

[10:03:08] <Echo> None of these things have much in common.

[10:03:20] <ShotgunFiend> PaulS_laptop if people would shut their shit for ten seconds, maybe i could explain.

[10:03:36] <Gara> Whatever, go ahead.

[10:03:38] <Gara> We're poking holes.

[10:03:39] <Balthazaar> I used my hunting knife in a dissection once

[10:03:49] <PaulS_laptop> you made a really bad analogy there. Go ahead, but we're not going to roll with something that makes little to no sense

[10:04:11] <ShotgunFiend> It makes little to no sense because you aren't willing to see the connections.

[10:04:21] <WalrusKing> Im listening

[10:04:22] <WalrusKing> go on

[10:04:44] <Gara> You aren't expressing them.

[10:04:48] <PaulS_laptop> I see the connections. I just think they're weak. Go on anyway.

[10:04:58] <Gara> Stop patching holes and inflate the balloon.

[10:04:59] <ShotgunFiend> But if you aren't willing to roll with it, I'm just gonna drop it. I don't need to be starting crap.

[10:05:20] <Gara> Inflate the balloon, shotgun, come on.

[10:08:11] <ShotgunFiend> As I said. Similar command structure. The obvious difference is one operates in a FPS video game, the other in a tabletop/RP fassion. One hosts games, the other runs. If we ever made a decision to overhaul the in-game, it went one of two ways: 1. It was well accepted because the people gave it a shot and let it play out to get a feel for it before giving it the ney/yay. Or 2. The community/playerb

[10:08:13] <ShotgunFiend> ase decided, no we don't like the way this sounds don't put this on our servers. In which case we just veto'd it, removed it, and it was like nothing ever happened.

[10:08:33] <Echo> Right

[10:08:38] <Echo> Except it's not that simple here

[10:08:48] <Echo> Because we have persistent characters in a persistent world