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Fletchling debate

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Nov 8th, 2014
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  1. [11:52:39] @Levi: kingmidas
  2. [11:52:40] @Levi: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/misdreavus-dead-fletchling-alive.3513438/page-3#post-5629681
  3. [11:52:47] Stratis: What is lc bh again?
  4. [11:52:53] @Jac: lc balenced hackmons
  5. [11:52:53] HMS Gimmick: balanced hackmons lc
  6. [11:53:14] +Madoka: so much fucking aerialate/refrigerate nonsense
  7. [11:53:14] @Jac: could we do lc streetmons?
  8. [11:53:15] @Levi: and fletchinder was an absolutely horrid comparison on so many levels
  9. [11:53:32] HMS Gimmick: tf are streetmons
  10. [11:53:33] #macle: jajajaja
  11. [11:53:36] GALVANTULA RIDER: Levi: why are you reading missy theorymonned brokenness thread
  12. [11:53:52] +kingmidas: dude I'm not even taking that thread seriously
  13. [11:53:53] @Levi: kingmidas wanted archetypes hindered by fletch
  14. [11:53:54] @Jac: >tf is streetmons
  15. [11:53:55] @Jac: LOL
  16. [11:53:57] @Levi: yea it shows
  17. [11:54:02] +kingmidas: you know I am against the missy ban
  18. [11:54:02] HMS Gimmick: ;;
  19. [11:54:03] @Levi: and you're an awful presence in it
  20. [11:54:09] +kingmidas: LOL
  21. [11:54:11] @Jac: >im not even taking it seriously
  22. [11:54:15] @Jac: why the fuck did you even post
  23. [11:54:19] @Jac: that's the most asinine thing to do
  24. [11:54:21] +kingmidas: I meant
  25. [11:54:23] #macle: >theorymonned brokeness
  26. [11:54:25] +kingmidas: the missy suspect thread
  27. [11:54:25] @Jac: is belittle a serious discussion
  28. [11:54:27] +kingmidas: geniuses
  29. [11:54:44] +kingmidas: and it doesn't ruin
  30. [11:54:46] GALVANTULA RIDER: why are you quoting like that when it's not supported by the server
  31. [11:54:46] +kingmidas: sun teams
  32. [11:54:53] @Levi: it drastically limits them
  33. [11:54:56] @Jac: it ruins bellsprout
  34. [11:55:02] #macle: i can quote whatever way i want
  35. [11:55:03] +kingmidas: blizzardy doesn't know
  36. [11:55:04] @Jac: which is why it's said to ruin sunteams
  37. [11:55:06] +kingmidas: what BU torch pass is
  38. [11:55:10] +kingmidas: obvs
  39. [11:55:16] +kingmidas: LOL
  40. [11:55:17] +kingmidas: scarfed mons
  41. [11:55:22] GALVANTULA RIDER: bulk up torchic
  42. [11:55:23] +kingmidas: that doesn't even make any sense
  43. [11:55:31] GALVANTULA RIDER: is that a bh set
  44. [11:55:35] +kingmidas: >destiny bond reliant pokes
  45. [11:55:38] +kingmidas: I meant curse
  46. [11:55:43] +kingmidas: w/e its the same thing with speed boost
  47. [11:55:52] +kingmidas: no mon in the meta
  48. [11:55:55] +kingmidas: relies on dbond
  49. [11:55:55] @Jac: instead of calling it bulk up
  50. [11:56:01] @Jac: lol
  51. [11:56:01] +kingmidas: I made a mistake lol
  52. [11:56:11] +kingmidas: >fighting offensive types
  53. [11:56:18] +kingmidas: >fairies do that already
  54. [11:56:22] +kingmidas: >fletchling can't switch in
  55. [11:56:29] @Jac: i dont understand
  56. [11:56:31] +kingmidas: it really only ruined scraggy
  57. [11:56:54] @Jac: fletch ruins a lot if fighters
  58. [11:56:57] Papapoof Y: chlorophyll sunny sash bulbasaur wrecks house
  59. [11:57:03] @Jac: i dont get what you are insinuating
  60. [11:57:11] +Yagµra: hi
  61. [11:57:12] @Jac: Papapoof Y except that prio fucks it
  62. [11:57:15] @Jac: :(
  63. [11:57:15] playin' pokemanz: the hax I have faced today
  64. [11:57:17] playin' pokemanz: fuck this
  65. [11:57:18] +kingmidas: if it ruined them
  66. [11:57:19] +kingmidas: that badly
  67. [11:57:22] Papapoof Y: prio? who dat
  68. [11:57:23] +kingmidas: why are most of them
  69. [11:57:24] +kingmidas: in A rank
  70. [11:57:29] +Yagµra: Blame the name, playin' pokemanz.
  71. [11:57:30] @Jac: prio = priority moves
  72. [11:57:34] Papapoof Y: oh
  73. [11:57:37] +kingmidas: also real users
  74. [11:57:42] +Fiend Hound: I know Yagµra
  75. [11:57:42] Papapoof Y: well ive had succes so far
  76. [11:57:47] +kingmidas: run sucker punch sprout
  77. [11:57:47] HMS Gimmick: Chlorosweepers are all Acrobait
  78. [11:57:49] @Levi: blizzardy's post wasn't perfect but like
  79. [11:57:54] +kingmidas: it was more
  80. [11:58:02] +Fiend Hound: it's just frustrating trying to do research weak like that
  81. [11:58:06] @Levi: fletchling hinders way more things than just about any other one mon
  82. [11:58:10] HMS Gimmick: Sucker punch doesn't let you handle abra tho
  83. [11:58:10] Papapoof Y: zorua is cutest dam thing since oshawatt
  84. [11:58:10] GALVANTULA RIDER: what are
  85. [11:58:11] +kingmidas: then an dramatization
  86. [11:58:13] GALVANTULA RIDER: research week pokés
  87. [11:58:16] HMS Gimmick: sleep powder does
  88. [11:58:20] GALVANTULA RIDER: does research week even work in LC
  89. [11:58:23] GALVANTULA RIDER: everything has already been tried
  90. [11:58:24] +kingmidas: its offensive power is comparable to sash abra
  91. [11:58:25] GALVANTULA RIDER: p much
  92. [11:58:30] @Jac: p much
  93. [11:58:32] +kingmidas: except sashbra
  94. [11:58:41] +kingmidas: can actually revenge more shit
  95. [11:58:44] Stratis: Some things are underrated so it can help bring them into light for others
  96. [11:58:45] +kingmidas: and is a lot stronger
  97. [11:58:46] @Levi: except fletchling
  98. [11:58:49] @Levi: can switch in on a thing or two
  99. [11:58:54] +Fiend Hound: GALVANTULA RIDER that's why you start shitting out mons
  100. [11:58:57] @Levi: has priority to take on scarfers and even faster mons
  101. [11:58:59] @Jac: mostly knock offs
  102. [11:59:04] @Levi: can actually sweep
  103. [11:59:05] +Fiend Hound: then having obligatory sets to run on pokemon
  104. [11:59:07] @Jac: @ fletch swtich ins
  105. [11:59:26] HMS Gimmick: Research week could be retitled LC UU spotlight
  106. [11:59:30] HMS Gimmick: tbh
  107. [11:59:30] @Levi: km I don't think you understand
  108. [11:59:30] +kingmidas: you can just sleep abra
  109. [11:59:32] +Fiend Hound: like LO ferro is gonna be there for ORAS
  110. [11:59:33] +kingmidas: hms gimmick
  111. [11:59:37] +kingmidas: I don't get your point
  112. [11:59:38] @Jac: od people still play lc uu
  113. [11:59:45] @Jac: i should go there and spam helioptile
  114. [11:59:49] @Jac: aka fuck water types
  115. [11:59:50] @Levi: fletchling is among the best as a sweeper and and revenge-killer
  116. [12:00:03] Papapoof Y: should farfetched hold his stick
  117. [12:00:03] for the bois: ladde rdown?
  118. [12:00:03] @Levi: you can say "lol oma is just as good a swepre"
  119. [12:00:06] +kingmidas: its not even
  120. [12:00:11] @Levi: or "lol abra is just as good a rkilre"
  121. [12:00:11] +kingmidas: that great as a sweeper
  122. [12:00:16] @Levi: yes it is
  123. [12:00:24] HMS Gimmick: Research week focuses on less used mons that are still viable, which is basically what's the top mons in LCUU
  124. [12:00:26] +kingmidas: its more a revenge killer
  125. [12:00:30] +kingmidas: than one of the best sweepers
  126. [12:00:34] +kingmidas: and its so predicable
  127. [12:00:35] Papapoof Y: should farfetched have the celery stick as an item
  128. [12:00:37] +kingmidas: its lure set
  129. [12:00:38] +kingmidas: isn't even a lure
  130. [12:00:41] @Jac: !data stick
  131.  
  132. Stick If holder is a Farfetch'd, its critical hit ratio is boosted by 2.
  133.  
  134. [12:00:43] +kingmidas: its on the analysis
  135. [12:00:44] the gooey kirby: ladder isn't working
  136. [12:00:52] HMS Gimmick: oh wow, it's literally called stick
  137. [12:00:56] @Jac: yeah lol
  138. [12:01:04] @Levi: fletchling is more threatening than any other sweeper for offensive teams
  139. [12:01:13] Papapoof Y: but should farfethed hold the stick?
  140. [12:01:19] +Fiend Hound: cb imo
  141. [12:01:22] @Jac: most of the time no
  142. [12:01:27] Stratis: Agreed. Only smashers can compare to fletch imo
  143. [12:01:29] @Jac: defiant + lo is better
  144. [12:01:32] +kingmidas: offensive teams
  145. [12:01:34] +kingmidas: can afford mag
  146. [12:01:35] +kingmidas: chou
  147. [12:01:37] +kingmidas: and onix
  148. [12:01:37] +Madoka: !learn farfetch'd, focus energy
  149. Farfetch'd can't learn Focus Energy
  150. [12:01:39] +Madoka: rip
  151. [12:01:42] +kingmidas: your point?
  152. [12:01:49] +Yagµra: !learn farfetch'd slash
  153. Pokemon 'farfetchdslash' not found.
  154. [12:01:52] +kingmidas: unless you run diglett, which is the support I'm talking about
  155. [12:02:00] +kingmidas: it'll fail to sweep if you play smart
  156. [12:02:06] +kingmidas: theres more pressure on the fletchling user
  157. [12:02:09] @Levi: onix is terrible
  158. [12:02:11] @Levi: but anyway
  159. [12:02:12] +Yagµra: !learn farfetch'd sd
  160. Pokemon 'farfetchdsd' not found.
  161. [12:02:13] +kingmidas: LOL
  162. [12:02:22] +kingmidas: onix is not terrible
  163. [12:02:28] Stratis: It just lacks powa
  164. [12:02:28] +Yagµra: onix is better than foongus js
  165. [12:02:30] +Madoka: its only use is a suicide lead
  166. [12:02:30] +Yagµra: n_n
  167. [12:02:30] +kingmidas: sure I have my problems with it but its viable
  168. [12:02:38] Papapoof Y: weakness policy sturdy wrecks towns
  169. [12:02:39] @Levi: pretty much every sweeper has checks and counters
  170. [12:02:47] +kingmidas: ok but this one
  171. [12:02:56] +kingmidas: has more than ones like shellder
  172. [12:03:00] +kingmidas: also stop acting like SD
  173. [12:03:02] +kingmidas: is so easy to pull off
  174. [12:03:07] +Madoka: is it not
  175. [12:03:08] @Levi: it really is
  176. [12:03:08] +Madoka: ..
  177. [12:03:14] +kingmidas: no it isn't
  178. [12:03:20] @Levi: fletchling forces a ton of switches and has enough bulk to avoid most OHKOs
  179. [12:03:21] Papapoof Y: wut is the fastest LC mon
  180. [12:03:24] +kingmidas: with SR up it gets KO'd by so many shit
  181. [12:03:27] @Levi: diglett/elekid/voltorb are tied
  182. [12:03:30] +Madoka: then run a rapid spinner
  183. [12:03:32] +Madoka: or defogger
  184. [12:03:36] +kingmidas: it implys the person won't predict
  185. [12:03:40] +kingmidas: this is way to much theorymon
  186. [12:03:45] +kingmidas: to ever prove your point levi
  187. [12:03:48] @Levi: it can avoid the 2HKO from pawniard's knock off
  188. [12:03:48] +Madoka: ok km ur argument is really stupid
  189. [12:03:58] +kingmidas: who knock offs
  190. [12:04:00] +Madoka: "LOL FLETCH IS BAD bc I CAN PREDICT"
  191. Madoka was warned by boTTT. (Automated response: caps)
  192. [12:04:00] +kingmidas: a fletchling
  193. [12:04:04] +kingmidas: are you dumb
  194. [12:04:08] @Levi: scarf?.
  195. [12:04:18] @Levi: and there's also how
  196. [12:04:23] @Levi: iron head doesn't come close to OHKOing either
  197. [12:04:29] +kingmidas: it doesn't need to
  198. [12:04:33] +kingmidas: fletchling doesn't either
  199. [12:04:40] @Levi: standard foo can't OHKO either
  200. [12:04:42] +Madoka: overheat + acro KOs scarf pawn
  201. [12:04:46] +kingmidas: no dur
  202. [12:04:52] +kingmidas: standard foo doesn't run any attack evs
  203. [12:04:56] +kingmidas: if you run the mixed set
  204. [12:05:02] @Levi: the most common Pokemon in the game can't stop fletch from setting up
  205. [12:05:09] @Levi: and you're saying fletchling has trouble setting up
  206. [12:05:10] +kingmidas: then you give up the sweeping capabilities SD has
  207. [12:05:21] +kingmidas: it doesn't need to
  208. [12:05:27] +kingmidas: and even if fletchling does set up
  209. [12:05:29] GALVANTULA RIDER: [17:03:42] @Levi: it can avoid the 2HKO from pawniard's knock off
  210. [12:05:31] Papapoof Y: diglett gets sucker punch? thats awsome
  211. [12:05:33] GALVANTULA RIDER: wow, great
  212. [12:05:40] +kingmidas: hows it gonna beat relatively healthy answers
  213. [12:05:43] GALVANTULA RIDER: you're at 56% HP and you're at +2 against a pawniard!
  214. [12:05:47] GALVANTULA RIDER: you're about to sweep!
  215. [12:05:52] @Levi: yup
  216. [12:06:01] +Madoka: don't set up early on in the game then
  217. [12:06:06] +kingmidas: duh
  218. [12:06:10] +Madoka: pory/spritz won't always be 100%
  219. [12:06:16] GALVANTULA RIDER: neither will fletch be
  220. [12:06:18] +Madoka: archen gets worn down by SR from switching in a lot
  221. [12:06:24] GALVANTULA RIDER: fletchling too
  222. [12:06:24] +kingmidas: spritzee is a poor fletch answer
  223. [12:06:27] +kingmidas: most of the time anyway
  224. [12:06:34] +Madoka: it survives a +2 acro
  225. [12:06:36] +kingmidas: thats why it has BJ madoka
  226. [12:06:36] +Madoka: so
  227. [12:06:39] +Madoka: it's a check
  228. [12:06:53] +Madoka: km are you being retarded right now
  229. [12:06:53] +kingmidas: yeah but
  230. [12:06:58] +kingmidas: it should rarely be your only one
  231. [12:07:04] @Levi: what sort of mon
  232. [12:07:04] +kingmidas: and it shouldn't switch in
  233. [12:07:07] @Levi: sweeps a healthy team
  234. [12:07:08] Stratis: You might not have to set up at all for fletch to do it's job. You can only shove so many fletch checks into one team.
  235. [12:07:21] @Levi: that is built by someone other than starmaster
  236. [12:07:26] +kingmidas: (Private to GALVANTULA RIDER) sigh
  237. [12:07:35] +Madoka: ok now i remember why i stopped coming on ps
  238. [12:07:39] +kingmidas: (Private to GALVANTULA RIDER) why do I always have to argue with retards
  239. [12:07:42] +Madoka: full of a bunch of salty preteens
  240. [12:07:42] GALVANTULA RIDER: why are you still here then
  241. [12:07:54] +kingmidas: salty
  242. [12:07:59] +kingmidas: its called discussion
  243. [12:08:00] GALVANTULA RIDER: lmop
  244. [12:08:00] +kingmidas: lol
  245. [12:08:04] @Jac: lmfao
  246. [12:08:10] @Jac: queenthot talkin about salt
  247. [12:08:12] +kingmidas: Jac do you see any of the signs
  248. [12:08:14] +Madoka: km you always get salty during discussions
  249. [12:08:17] +kingmidas: of my usual asshole behavior
  250. [12:08:20] +kingmidas: how is this being salty
  251. [12:08:21] +Madoka: yes
  252. [12:08:22] +kingmidas: lol
  253. [12:08:27] GALVANTULA RIDER: are you seriously so desperate for arguments
  254. [12:08:31] GALVANTULA RIDER: that instead of discussing
  255. [12:08:33] @Levi: you're holding fletchling to standards for bannable mons
  256. [12:08:37] GALVANTULA RIDER: you start using ad hominems
  257. [12:08:38] +kingmidas: they always do this
  258. [12:08:41] @Levi: when we're trying to discuss whether it's s
  259. [12:08:42] +kingmidas: yeah because people considered it
  260. [12:08:43] +kingmidas: bannable
  261. [12:08:49] %Cheir: km, I think how prepared the meta is (especially compared to a few months back prior to Fletch's suspect test) for Fletchling is testament to its power.
  262. [12:08:50] +kingmidas: its not worth S rank idc
  263. [12:08:51] +kingmidas: how it is
  264. [12:08:55] +kingmidas: it doesn't matter
  265. [12:09:08] +kingmidas: how fucking powerful/influential it was
  266. [12:09:13] +kingmidas: viability rankings
  267. [12:09:16] +kingmidas: show how viable a mon is
  268. [12:09:20] @Levi: we're not deciding how bannable it is right now are wel
  269. [12:09:21] @Levi: we
  270. [12:09:22] +kingmidas: A+ isn't even that big of a drop
  271. [12:09:24] +kingmidas: its flaws
  272. [12:09:28] +kingmidas: are more than enough to make it
  273. [12:09:30] +kingmidas: not S rank
  274. [12:09:30] @Levi: but the thing is
  275. [12:09:35] @Levi: fletchling is clearly in S-rank territory
  276. [12:09:41] @Levi: as far as most of us are concerned
  277. [12:09:45] Stratis: It's just your opinion though. One of many opinions. I think fletch should stay S and I was hoping it got banned with missy
  278. [12:10:13] HMS Gimmick: By the way, do the viability rankings shift based on current meta, or is it in general?
  279. [12:10:20] %Cheir: They shift.
  280. [12:10:21] for the bois: doeesnt take any skill to spam priority acro
  281. [12:10:22] GALVANTULA RIDER: based on current meta
  282. [12:10:23] +kingmidas: current meta
  283. [12:10:36] +kingmidas: yeah it doesn't
  284. [12:10:40] +kingmidas: like it doesn't take any skill
  285. [12:10:42] +kingmidas: to use any move?
  286. [12:10:45] +kingmidas: I hate that argument
  287. [12:11:10] +kingmidas: These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively
  288. [12:11:13] +kingmidas: fletch has 1 role
  289. [12:11:25] +kingmidas: or 2 if you count revenge killing and sweeping as 2
  290. [12:11:29] +kingmidas: eh they both come hand in hand imo
  291. [12:11:30] @Levi: fletchling simultaneously functions brilliantly for two roles
  292. [12:11:34] @Levi: in one set
  293. [12:11:37] @Levi: of course it's predictable
  294. [12:11:41] @Levi: because that set is sort of godly
  295. [12:11:43] #macle: fletch as 1 role: win battles
  296. [12:11:48] +kingmidas: low risk involved and high reward exerted
  297. [12:11:53] +kingmidas: if you run fletch you basically
  298. [12:11:59] Eat u for lunch: win
  299. [12:12:03] Stratis: The strongest priority move in the whole meta shouldn't be underestimated just cause you can use popular checks like chichou. It's still ridiculously good
  300. [12:12:05] +kingmidas: forfeiting a mon until late game or else its huge bait
  301. [12:12:07] +kingmidas: to all of its answers
  302. [12:12:13] +kingmidas: and even then theres a middling chance
  303. [12:12:15] +kingmidas: it'll sweep
  304. [12:12:37] +AM RZL: It doesn't take any skill to use Caterpie, but does that mean it's S- Rank, I personally think Fletchling deserves S- Rank as, little risk high reward Revenge Killer who isn't locked into one move by Scarf.
  305. [12:12:55] @Levi: by forfeiting
  306. [12:12:55] +kingmidas: it was more than enough flaws
  307. [12:13:01] @Levi: do you mean the best revenge-killer in the game
  308. [12:13:02] Stratis: Why do you keep typing 2 - 10 works at a time ;d?
  309. [12:13:08] Papapoof Y: caterpies good?
  310. [12:13:08] Stratis: works*
  311. [12:13:13] +kingmidas: because I do
  312. [12:13:16] +kingmidas: can we please stay on topic
  313. [12:13:24] GALVANTULA RIDER: I dunno
  314. [12:13:29] GALVANTULA RIDER: fletchling feels more like A+ material
  315. [12:13:30] GALVANTULA RIDER: atm
  316. [12:13:30] +AM RZL: Papapoof Y no
  317. [12:13:38] GALVANTULA RIDER: it's not so easy to sweep when so many things can beat you
  318. [12:13:40] GALVANTULA RIDER: on the same team
  319. [12:13:44] +kingmidas: abra is also another stronger
  320. [12:13:45] +AM RZL: It was prove that taking no skill to use doesn't mean anything
  321. [12:13:46] Grinfamy: yeah the meta is reallly prepared for fletch right now
  322. [12:13:49] GALVANTULA RIDER: It's still extremely good
  323. [12:13:50] Grinfamy: i think it should drop
  324. [12:13:51] +kingmidas: but yes no priority revenge killer
  325. [12:13:53] +Fiend Hound: so far
  326. [12:13:54] GALVANTULA RIDER: but its sweeping capability
  327. [12:14:01] +Fiend Hound: my !roll team
  328. [12:14:03] GALVANTULA RIDER: isn't the same as it was during missy era or anything
  329. [12:14:03] +kingmidas: You guys
  330. [12:14:07] +AM RZL: Abra dislikes anything bulky with priority
  331. [12:14:07] +Fiend Hound: is mono grass + litwick
  332. [12:14:12] +kingmidas: literally say the same points over and over again
  333. [12:14:13] +AM RZL: and U-turn fecks it
  334. [12:14:16] GALVANTULA RIDER: can we not compare abra and fletchling
  335. [12:14:19] GALVANTULA RIDER: they're not the same
  336. [12:14:20] GALVANTULA RIDER: at all
  337. [12:14:20] @Levi: well I mean
  338. [12:14:27] @Levi: there are a finite number of points to discuss
  339. [12:14:33] +AM RZL: GALVANTULA RIDER they are similar
  340. [12:14:36] @Levi: and you're hardly better
  341. [12:14:40] +kingmidas: so you just stick to the simplest
  342. [12:14:43] +kingmidas: ?
  343. [12:14:45] @Jac: abra and fletch are revengers
  344. [12:14:49] +AM RZL: um Levi he isn't better....
  345. [12:14:49] @Jac: that's the only comparison
  346. [12:14:53] GALVANTULA RIDER: AM RZL: they're not
  347. [12:14:54] GALVANTULA RIDER: similar at all
  348. [12:14:55] @Jac: they carry out their tasks differently
  349. [12:14:59] Grinfamy: ^
  350. [12:15:03] @Jac: which makes them uncomparable
  351. [12:15:07] +AM RZL: true
  352. [12:15:09] @Jac: abra has no prio
  353. [12:15:11] +Fiend Hound: the thing about insulting someone else's argument is that they are now open to insult yours
  354. [12:15:12] +kingmidas: they're both revenge killers, but yeah they are sorta different
  355. [12:15:14] @Jac: and they hit on different spectrums
  356. [12:15:17] @Jac: >sorta
  357. [12:15:18] @Jac: not even
  358. [12:15:21] @Jac: v different
  359. [12:15:23] +kingmidas: magic guard focus sash vs priority
  360. [12:15:23] +Fiend Hound: which then turns thins to a shitfest
  361. [12:15:28] Stratis: We could really use some sentence structure here. People keep using 3 - 5 lines to say one thing.... This is borderline spam
  362. [12:15:33] +kingmidas: fiend
  363. [12:15:38] @Jac: lol
  364. [12:15:48] +kingmidas: they just called me salty and tried to end the argument
  365. [12:15:49] +Fiend Hound: yeah hi
  366. [12:15:52] +kingmidas: 10 minutes ago
  367. [12:16:07] +kingmidas: idc now lets get back to the topic
  368. [12:16:17] +kingmidas: fletchling requires a decent amount of support
  369. [12:16:19] +kingmidas: not to much
  370. [12:16:21] +kingmidas: but not to little
  371. [12:16:32] +kingmidas: These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively
  372. [12:16:41] +kingmidas: and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits
  373. [12:16:47] +kingmidas: how does this not satisfy you guys
  374. [12:16:51] +kingmidas: and its the top of A anyway
  375. [12:17:01] #macle: does anyone hate when you make amazing plays but your opponent is just too dum
  376. [12:17:02] #macle: b
  377. [12:17:03] Stratis: 9 lines just to say all that XD
  378. [12:17:07] @Levi: or even better
  379. [12:17:12] GALVANTULA RIDER: eh macle
  380. [12:17:14] +AM RZL: yes, macle
  381. [12:17:14] @Levi: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the LC metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well.
  382. [12:17:15] @Levi: Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
  383. [12:17:16] GALVANTULA RIDER: generally they're not amazing plays
  384. [12:17:18] GALVANTULA RIDER: if your opponent is dumb
  385. [12:17:20] +kingmidas: I just quoted that
  386. [12:17:24] +kingmidas: 2 minutes ago
  387. [12:17:26] +kingmidas: and proved why
  388. [12:17:28] +kingmidas: it doesn't fit that
  389. [12:17:36] @Levi: but it does
  390. [12:17:45] +kingmidas: how?
  391. [12:17:49] +kingmidas: I proved why it doesn't
  392. [12:17:50] GALVANTULA RIDER: tbh
  393. [12:17:51] +kingmidas: prove how ti does
  394. [12:17:52] GALVANTULA RIDER: fletchling's usage atm
  395. [12:17:53] +kingmidas: it*
  396. [12:17:53] @Levi: fletchling is absolutely amazing
  397. [12:17:55] +AM RZL: Have u ran a team without a Fletch check
  398. [12:17:55] GALVANTULA RIDER: has low risk involved
  399. [12:17:59] GALVANTULA RIDER: but not-so-high reward
  400. [12:17:59] @Levi: it can revenge-kill and sweep extremely well
  401. [12:17:59] +kingmidas: saying that
  402. [12:18:02] +kingmidas: doesn't mean crap
  403. [12:18:02] +kingmidas: levi
  404. [12:18:08] +kingmidas: you've said that already 100 times
  405. [12:18:11] +kingmidas: I've heard it already
  406. [12:18:11] GALVANTULA RIDER: it's an excellent revenge killer
  407. [12:18:17] GALVANTULA RIDER: but its sweeping capabilities aren't as good as it was
  408. [12:18:23] GALVANTULA RIDER: A+ is perfect for it
  409. [12:18:27] GALVANTULA RIDER: right now
  410. [12:18:37] @Levi: its sweeping capabilities haven't changed very much at all
  411. [12:18:38] +Fiend Hound: you heard it
  412. [12:18:40] Eat u for lunch: deserves to be s-rank
  413. [12:18:43] @Levi: things that were popular then are still popular
  414. [12:18:43] +Fiend Hound: but you have yet to listen
  415. [12:18:47] +kingmidas: fletchling hasn't changed
  416. [12:18:50] GALVANTULA RIDER: they did
  417. [12:18:50] +kingmidas: the metas changed
  418. [12:18:50] @Levi: larvitar has not risen in usage
  419. [12:18:53] GALVANTULA RIDER: teams are much more prepared
  420. [12:19:00] GALVANTULA RIDER: for fletchling
  421. [12:19:01] GALVANTULA RIDER: than they were before
  422. [12:19:08] GALVANTULA RIDER: it simply doesn't sweep as nicely as it could
  423. [12:19:11] GALVANTULA RIDER: also things did rise
  424. [12:19:14] +kingmidas: why does usage imply
  425. [12:19:14] GALVANTULA RIDER: like eviolite pawn
  426. [12:19:18] @Levi: I was facing teams with two fletch checks two months ago and I still am
  427. [12:19:22] +kingmidas: especially in a niche mon like larvitar
  428. [12:19:27] +TheFenderStory: slow your roll there bud
  429. [12:19:32] Stratis: It's sweeping capabilities haven't changed at all. It's not like chinchou or archen suddenly became popular. Fletch checks have been all the rage for months
  430. [12:19:36] +kingmidas: make the meta the same
  431. [12:19:50] +kingmidas: okay but you gotta look
  432. [12:19:57] +kingmidas: at the playstyles people have been playing now
  433. [12:19:59] IAN IS LEGENDARY: fletchling runs sd?
  434. [12:20:01] +kingmidas: less offensive teams have sprouted
  435. [12:20:01] Grinfamy: fletch needs too much support for it to be s imo
  436. [12:20:05] +Fiend Hound: you mean volt turn
  437. [12:20:07] +kingmidas: people have been running a lot more
  438. [12:20:10] +kingmidas: stall and bulky offense
  439. [12:20:11] Wild Hope: sorry macle for being dum
  440. [12:20:11] +Fiend Hound: the thing that fletch is good at ?
  441. [12:20:18] +kingmidas: volt turn also easily
  442. [12:20:22] +kingmidas: handles fletch
  443. [12:20:26] #macle: i dont understand your plays #_#
  444. [12:20:27] +kingmidas: with mag and chinchou
  445. [12:20:35] #macle: or did you underpredict me
  446. [12:20:35] @Levi: voltturn easily handles most things
  447. [12:20:38] Grinfamy: voltturn handles everything
  448. [12:20:39] #macle: to mess me up
  449. [12:20:39] +kingmidas: ok?
  450. [12:20:41] +kingmidas: your point
  451. [12:20:44] +Fiend Hound: yeah, but fletch fits on volt turn
  452. [12:20:49] GALVANTULA RIDER: yeah, it does
  453. [12:20:51] GALVANTULA RIDER: and?
  454. [12:20:53] #macle: also who the fuck cares if fletchling is S or a+
  455. [12:20:58] +Fiend Hound: wibbly
  456. [12:20:58] Grinfamy: we do macle
  457. [12:20:59] GALVANTULA RIDER: we do macle
  458. [12:21:04] +Fiend Hound: this chat
  459. [12:21:06] @Jac: what does it matter if it fits adn it's beaten by the same thing?
  460. [12:21:08] #macle: go get laid
  461. [12:21:10] Grinfamy: don't read my mind galvantula
  462. [12:21:13] Stratis: midas definately seems to care.
  463. [12:21:22] @Jac: i still think fletch is s material
  464. [12:21:28] LOL D3stroy3r: hai
  465. [12:21:31] Stratis: I was disappointed fletch didn't get banned with missy so I'll never support dropping it to A+
  466. [12:21:33] +Fiend Hound: that the a point is pointless @ Jac
  467. [12:21:35] LOL D3stroy3r: im new at showdown
  468. [12:21:39] +kingmidas: then you're biased stratis
  469. [12:21:40] +Fiend Hound: that's what I want to show
  470. [12:21:42] +kingmidas: and it doesn't matter
  471. [12:21:44] +kingmidas: your arguments
  472. [12:21:45] GALVANTULA RIDER: it seems you aren't interested in little cup, room owner: macle
  473. [12:21:50] GALVANTULA RIDER: may I ask why you are room owner?
  474. [12:21:58] +Fiend Hound: b/c frogs
  475. [12:22:01] +AM RZL: he is cuz frogs
  476. [12:22:15] Stratis: Is midas always this rude. I mean he did call himself an "asshole" earlier but wow
  477. [12:22:25] +kingmidas: how is this being rude
  478. [12:22:29] @Levi: he's like twelve
  479. [12:22:29] +kingmidas: it was saying the truth
  480. [12:22:34] +kingmidas: biased people have arguments
  481. [12:22:35] Eat u for lunch: the salt is real
  482. [12:22:35] GALVANTULA RIDER: arguments is being rude now
  483. [12:22:36] +Fiend Hound: levi 15*
  484. [12:22:41] @Levi: oh my bad
  485. [12:22:43] %Cheir: Kinda, Yes, but he's not being rude at the moment, Stratis.
  486. [12:22:46] +AM RZL: I'm 15 ;-;
  487. [12:22:49] +kingmidas: that are plauged with issues based upon
  488. [12:22:50] +Fiend Hound: but you wouldn't know
  489. [12:22:52] #macle: because its literally the dumbest thing you could ever discuss
  490. [12:22:55] +kingmidas: they'll reasonings for the mon
  491. [12:22:57] GALVANTULA RIDER: remember kids
  492. [12:23:01] +kingmidas: so macle they have to
  493. [12:23:01] GALVANTULA RIDER: if you have different opinions
  494. [12:23:02] GALVANTULA RIDER: you're salty
  495. [12:23:04] +kingmidas: lead into insulting my age?
  496. [12:23:08] GALVANTULA RIDER: and we're gonna make fun of you!
  497. [12:23:15] +kingmidas: didn't quote have a talk with the auth yesterday
  498. [12:23:31] +kingmidas: because they shitfested me for half an hour about my age
  499. GALVANTULA RIDER was warned by macle. (can you stop being sarcastic)
  500. [12:23:50] %Cheir: In all honesty, the viability rankings are arbitrary, anyway.
  501. [12:23:50] %Cheir: What defines S? How many flaws are too many between each rank? What's the gap between A to A-, A- to B+, etc?
  502. [12:24:02] @Levi: cheir it's pretty rough
  503. [12:24:04] +kingmidas: doesn't matter how arbitrary they're
  504. [12:24:05] @Levi: that's where discussion comes in
  505. [12:24:07] %Cheir: If it's going to be effective and representative, it should be more deliberate than it is now.
  506. [12:24:13] GALVANTULA RIDER: since when is it wrong to be sarcastic
  507. [12:24:15] Stratis: I believe only one person mentioned your age.
  508. [12:24:16] +kingmidas: there are so many roles
  509. [12:24:18] +kingmidas: in mons
  510. [12:24:20] @Levi: where we try to decide approximately how good a pokemon is relative to another
  511. [12:24:22] +kingmidas: how do you make it more well defined though
  512. [12:24:24] +AM RZL: True enough Cheir
  513. [12:24:31] +kingmidas: you can't levi
  514. [12:24:33] +kingmidas: roles shake that up
  515. [12:24:37] +kingmidas: this isn't smash
  516. [12:24:43] @Levi: taking other things into consideration
  517. [12:24:45] %Cheir: I've had an idea for a little while. I'm going to the shops quickly
  518. [12:24:48] +Fiend Hound: wait
  519. [12:24:49] +AM RZL: Fletch might as well be D- RAnk
  520. [12:24:49] #macle: do percentage of the viable mons it beats
  521. [12:24:57] %Cheir: But if I type it up, would you all give it a read and provide feedback?
  522. [12:25:01] +Fiend Hound: sarcasm is frowned upon?
  523. [12:25:11] %Cheir: Type up the idea, not the actual rankings, btw. :p
  524. [12:25:11] +Fiend Hound: this is a more pressing issue
  525. [12:25:12] GALVANTULA RIDER: apparently
  526. [12:25:12] GALVANTULA RIDER: it is
  527. [12:25:13] +kingmidas: (Private to GALVANTULA RIDER) and they do what they always do
  528. [12:25:13] Grinfamy: i'd read it cheir
  529. [12:25:15] @Levi: no never fiend
  530. [12:25:16] +kingmidas: (Private to GALVANTULA RIDER) step away from the argument
  531. [12:25:19] HMS Gimmick: sure, cheir
  532. [12:25:25] +kingmidas: (Private to GALVANTULA RIDER) and try to make it as though nothing happened
  533. [12:25:36] #macle: when you are being an asshole with it, it is
  534. [12:25:36] +AM RZL: I would Cheir.
  535. [12:25:36] GALVANTULA RIDER: it seems macle doesn't agree with you Levi
  536. [12:25:38] +kingmidas: (Private to GALVANTULA RIDER) then again the counsel is levi and rowan not even an odd number
  537. [12:25:40] +Fiend Hound: What if that was sarcastic
  538. [12:25:41] +Fiend Hound: !
  539. [12:25:43] @Levi: !
  540. [12:25:46] %Cheir: Alrighty then. Be back in about 15-20.
  541. [12:25:56] +kingmidas: (Private to GALVANTULA RIDER) if they tie it comes down to the retarded chat basically
  542. [12:26:02] +kingmidas: cya cheir
  543. [12:26:05] +AM RZL: ^
  544. [12:26:07] GALVANTULA RIDER: pointing out that people often derail discussions with ad hominem is being an asshole now?
  545. [12:26:25] @Levi: it's honestly bound to happen with a community like ours
  546. [12:26:33] #macle: GALVANTULA RIDER, drop it already
  547. [12:26:39] +kingmidas: that doesn't make any sense levi
  548. [12:26:45] +kingmidas: "oh we're all dumbasses so we'll never stay on topic"
  549. [12:26:48] @Levi: all our egos are huge
  550. [12:26:53] +kingmidas: no
  551. [12:26:59] @Levi: it's pretty easy to ignore the ad hominem
  552. [12:27:17] +kingmidas: we manage to find a scapegoat
  553. [12:27:22] +kingmidas: and that leads to a lack of any true agreement
  554. [12:27:25] GALVANTULA RIDER: "it's pretty easy to ignore the ad hominem"
  555. [12:27:29] GALVANTULA RIDER: not when it gets in the way of the discussion
  556. [12:27:32] +kingmidas: because we never finish
  557. [12:27:38] @Jac: (lmfao this argument)
  558. [12:27:49] @Levi: we've been going on in circles for the actual discussion anyway
  559. [12:27:51] GALVANTULA RIDER: calling each other fgts is ok but not when you say "JUST STOP UR BEING SALTY ARE YOU RETARDED"
  560. [12:27:56] +kingmidas: no we haven't
  561. [12:27:57] @Levi: I don't think there's much else to say
  562. [12:27:57] +kingmidas: you've been
  563. [12:27:59] @Jac: saying those things isnt helping tbh
  564. [12:28:00] +kingmidas: but not us
  565. [12:28:04] @Levi: yes us
  566. [12:28:06] #macle: guys drop it
  567. [12:28:14] +Fiend Hound: with frog master
  568. [12:28:21] +AM RZL: Frogs are cool.
  569. [12:28:22] +Fiend Hound: on this one
  570. [12:28:30] +AM RZL: let's use that topic frogs in LC
  571. [12:28:32] +kingmidas: stop trying to simplify and realize the problem
  572. [12:28:37] #macle: they all suck
  573. [12:28:37] +kingmidas: if we actually realized it
  574. [12:28:45] +AM RZL: Good point macle
  575. [12:28:45] +kingmidas: then maybe something would happen
  576. [12:28:45] #macle: froakie wishes it had 18 speed
  577. [12:28:45] HMS Gimmick: :o
  578. [12:28:46] +kingmidas: um macle, croagunk
  579. [12:28:50] #macle: oh
  580. [12:28:55] GALVANTULA RIDER: it's a toad
  581. [12:28:57] GALVANTULA RIDER: not a frog
  582. [12:28:58] +AM RZL: froakie cries for it
  583. [12:29:01] +kingmidas: .cri
  584. [12:29:02] #macle: i keep forgetting about gunk
  585. [12:29:22] GALVANTULA RIDER: The opposing Axew floats in the air with its Air Balloon!
  586. [12:29:26] #macle: gunk is pretty good
  587. [12:29:27] GALVANTULA RIDER: air balloon garchomp syndrome strikes again
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